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Why Larry Craig Should Resign

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Senator Larry Craig should resign.

He shouldn’t wait for the Senate Ethics Committee to review the case, let Idaho voters decide his fate or even wait to hear what advice his attorney has to give. He should resign and do so immediately.

The reason is simple: our elected officials need to be held to a higher standard than the average person. Whether or not we agree with their politics, elected officials represent us; and, at the very least, we should expect them to follow the laws of the land and not put themselves in compromising situations.

Craig made a stupid decision in a moment of weakness. And though we all make mistakes, Craig was entrusted by the people of Idaho with a special position of trust and responsibility and should be held to a higher level of conduct.

What if the person in the other stall hadn’t been a cop but someone looking to blackmail Craig? What would the Senator have done? From his actions, it’s obvious Craig wished to keep the matter from reaching the public. It’s worth considering what the Senator might have been willing to give a blackmailer to keep the incident under wraps.

Craig now claims his actions in a Minneapolis airport restroom were misconstrued by the arresting officer. But that doesn’t matter anymore. Craig pled guilty to a lesser charge: disorderly conduct. With the guilty plea hanging over his head, Craig can no longer be an effective U.S. Senator. This issue will continue to follow him throughout the rest of his political career. When he speaks in public or on the floor of the Senate, his message will be diluted and lose its effectiveness.

Over the years Craig has been a champion of many good causes. Until his arrest, Craig had served Idaho and his country well: 10 years in the House of Representatives and 17 as a Senator. That’s nothing to be ashamed of. His moment of weakness in a bathroom was unfortunate; but with his position of power and authority entrusted to him by the voters in Idaho, he should have been aware of the possible consequences of his actions.

Reacting to the news of Craig’s plea, presidential candidate Mitt Romney said: "And the truth of the matter is, the most important thing we expect from … an elected official is a level of dignity and character that we can point to for our kids and our grandkids, and say, ‘Hey, someday I hope you grow up and you’re someone like that person.’ And we’ve seen disappointment in the White House, we’ve seen it in the Senate, we’ve seen it in Congress. And frankly, it’s disgusting.”

Hear hear.

Craig would not only do the people of Idaho a favor but all Americans by stepping down and letting someone who’s willing to stand a little taller and willing to live to higher expectations take his place.

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About Abel Keogh

  • Dr Dreadful

    Jeez, what a tempest in a beverage container.

    One has to wonder what the police officer in the next stall was actually doing in there. I doubt it was just Craig’s bad luck that he “happened” to be a cop.

    On the other hand, Craig should probably come clean. “Misconstrued”, my bum. The least he could do is shed some light on what the hell the deal is with gay men and public restrooms (cottaging).

    He may as well. He’s from Idaho. He’s not going to be running for his seat again no matter what, after this.

  • Clavos

    Resign hell. Execute him.

    But, they’ll probably let him resign instead; the rest of ‘em don’t want to face execution if they’re caught one day.

    And no, I’m NOT talking about gays; I’m talking about philanderers, which probably encompasses 80+ % of those bums in congress.

    Family values my ass.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Politics scetion’s been quite the last couple of days. It’s not the same without Stan to come on and tell us it’s all bollocks.

    Am I right in thinking he’s probably winging/winged (wung?) his way to Portugal as we speak?

  • Dr Dreadful

    scetion s/b section
    quite s/b quiet

    Bloody keyboard dyslexia…

  • Clavos

    Aye, mate, I think he is, the lucky dog. Portugal’s a beautiful and interesting country.

    I think the cop in the next stall was probably looking to catch someone just like Craig.

    Ft. Lauderdale’s Mayor, Jim Naugle has been on a tear about sex in public bathrooms, lately. Says a friend showed him a gay tourism guide that indicated (in a section about same) that the men’s room in Ft. Lauderdale’s principal kid’s park was a “hot spot” for gay pickup sex.

    Dunno if that’s true or not, but Ft. Lauderdale does have a substantial gay population, and they’re really pissed off at Naugle right now; as is the Tourism Development Council, which would rather keep such publicity hush-hush, so they’ve booted Naugle off their board and are demanding he shut up.

    Carl Hiassen doesn’t get even half of it….(4)

  • Alec

    RE: His moment of weakness in a bathroom was unfortunate; but with his position of power and authority entrusted to him by the voters in Idaho, he should have been aware of the possible consequences of his actions.

    Too bad he hasn’t fessed up to this “moment of weakness,” but instead insists that he is not gay and does not cruise even though he apparently knows the secret handshake and top tap code for extra special bathroom goodies — which also suggests that he has had more than a few … moments.

    But although I would never had voted for him, or think much about his record, it seems to me that it is up to the voters in his state to determine whether or not he should resign. The Republican leadership may be right in stripping him of his committee assignments (and he might well enjoy being stripped), but I don’t see that his fellow Republicans, or Democrats, or anyone else except the people who put him in office, have a right to insist upon his ejection.

    His crime is a misdemeanor. He has not stolen public funds, traded his vote for favors or otherwise seriously abused the public trust. He also pleaded guilty, paid a fine and is under probation. In short, he has paid for his crime.

    Now, his claim that the arresting officer misconstrued his actions and that he is not really guilty does not pass the smell test, and is little more than a low-grade version of the “Scooter Libby really didn’t do anything illegal” nonsense that Republican quislings have used before in an equally lame attempt to get out from under their supposed respect for the rule of law. And the Smoking Gun and other web sites has a copy of the plea agreement that he signed, which clearly has a statement that he cannot agree to the plea if he thinks that he is innocent of the charges. If Craig really presses this aspect of things, one might suspect that he is too ignorant of the legal process to be left in charge of being a competent lawmaker. But again, this is for the people who voted him into office to consider.

    Of course, he could always ask Bush for a pardon.

  • Clavos

    Doesn’t matter whether he is gay nor not. He violated the trust of his wife, the person to whom he most owes his allegiance and respect, so how would he treat the trust of the voters.

    Execute him.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Ft. Lauderdale’s Mayor, Jim Naugle has been on a tear about sex in public bathrooms, lately. Says a friend showed him a gay tourism guide that indicated (in a section about same) that the men’s room in Ft. Lauderdale’s principal kid’s park was a “hot spot” for gay pickup sex.

    And a rather bewildered local police department indicated that, far from Naugle’s alleged epidemic of u-bend benders, they’ve actually only dealt with four such incidents in the last three years.

    Local politicians do seem to be splendidly uninhibited when it comes to making complete buttocks of themselves in public.

  • bliffle

    Actually, I think the Senate Ethics committe is only entitled to charge him if he has a Conflict Of Interest or is being openly bribed, or,perhaps, if he stands to profit from a deal he is judging.

    Anyway, whatever ethical lapses are associated with his hetero or homo sexlife are irrelevant to the Senate.

    In theory.

    But we know how much the repubs are indebted to the Christian Right that it seems right that the repubs do whatever necessary to chastise their own man.

  • Alec

    RE: Doesn’t matter whether he is gay nor not. He violated the trust of his wife, the person to whom he most owes his allegiance and respect, so how would he treat the trust of the voters.

    We don’t know anything about his marriage, his wife, or the character or quality of their marriage, or what they know about each other’s private lives. Also, so far, she is sticking to the script that he is not gay and has done nothing wrong, so she has not claimed that he has violated her trust.

    As an aside, the worst cynics are noting that Craig and his wife got married around the time that some gay accusations about him started floating up, and although she has three children from an earlier marriage, they do not have any children together.

    The family values crowd don’t seem to understand that the more vehemently their candidates insist on a phony rigid moral code which they feel that they can violate and wiggle their way out of whenever they desire, the more they invite close scrutiny and ridicule.

    By the way, in the past, Americans seemed to understand that there is no simplistic correspondence between a person’s obligations to a spouse and that person’s public duties. Alexander Hamilton’s affair with Maria Reynolds is a case in point. He kept detailed records that he made available to his political enemies which demonstrated that his affair with her did not involve any public corruption or delivery of favors to Reynolds’ husband. Hamilton’s wife stood by him, although she undoubtedly was hurt by the whole mess, and more when he published a confession of the affair that the entire American public could read and comment upon. Still, as foolish and self-defeating as Hamilton’s actions were in many ways, his scrupulous attempts to execute his public duties honorably is still something to consider.

  • daryl d

    I love it when a neocon bites the big one (literally). I’m convinced that the entire Republican party has become one big disco lovin’ gay bar (Jerry Seinfeld-not that there’s anything wrong with it.) But when you want to crucify a group of people for being a little bit too much like yourself, I think the criticism is definitely valid.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Well, whaddaya know? Another conservative Republican homophobe caught with his pants down in the men’s room. This is the same man, by the way, who publicly denied having any involvement in the 1982 Congressional page scandal, even though he had not been accused.

    But not to worry, Craig assures us in a rather Nixonian moment, “I am not gay. I have never been gay.” Oh, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Ah, I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning! This guy has spent his days voting against anything vaguely related to gay rights, while spending his nights looking for blow jobs in bathroom stalls.

    Of course, if he didn’t have such a neanderthal view of sexuality, if he believed in letting people be who they are, without judgement, he wouldn’t have to sneak around to get some action, and he wouldn’t be watching his long career come crashing down around him.

    My favorite headline (From Slate.com): Craig’s Lust

  • Clavos

    “By the way, in the past, Americans seemed to understand that there is no simplistic correspondence between a person’s obligations to a spouse and that person’s public duties.”

    Call it simplistic if you wish, but philandering is hardly a sign of good character. It also leaves the practitioner vulnerable to pressure and blackmail (though obviously not in this case), and is not, or shouldn’t be, acceptable in a United States Senator.

    His public persona as a “family values” advocate and supporter doesn’t square well with this incident, either.

    Don’t we already have enough sleaze bag elected officials in this country? It’s no wonder that the voters’ opinions of congress have never been lower than they are now. I say it’s high time we start weeding out ALL the bums.

    Or, perhaps the presence of all the hypocrites, thieves, liars, and corruption in congress is merely a reflection of the country at large these days.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    I hate to be saying the same thing on two threads, but again, Craig is maintaining that he is innocent and that what he’s accused of did not happen. What ever happened to the principle of presumption of innocence? Maybe he deserves a chance like any other accused person to defend himself?

    Again I see the left in America trying to do away with this basic right. Apparently it only applies to street thugs and not to politicians with an R after their name.

    Remember Mark Foley? Hounded out of office for his horrible acts of paedophilia? Except that from the very beginning it was clear that he had not actually broken any laws. Nonetheless he was forced to resign and his name has been permanently smeared. Do any of you even know that the investigation concluded last week and no charges wer ever brought against him? The media covered the hell out of the accusations that ruined him, but they’ve shown little or no interest in the actual facts of the case or the fact that most of what he was accused of turns out not to be true.

    Dave

  • Dr Dreadful

    Dave,

    Clavos, who is hardly a raving lefty, is the person on this thread calling most loudly for Craig to be hung out to dry.

    In the opinion of little ol’ left-leaning moi, on the other hand, the motives of the cop in the next stall seem far more suspect than Craig’s.

  • REMF

    “Again I see the left in America trying to do away with this basic right. Apparently it only applies to street thugs and not to politicians with an R after their name.”

    Um, Dave, could that have anything to do with the sanctimonious, self-righteous, judgmental, arrogant, superior, overbearing nature of those with an “R” after their name?
    (MCH)

  • http://adreamersholiday.blogspot.com Lee Richards

    A guilty plea usually includes a question from the judge to the effect, “Are you in fact guilty?” which the accused answers in the affirmative to enter his plea.

    Hard to see any violation of the presumption of innocence in that.

    And plea bargains are made because an accused person doesn’t want to, and chooses not to, defend himself against a more serious charge.

    It has nothing to do with evil leftist schemes or rightist paranoia.

  • Alec

    Dave – RE: I hate to be saying the same thing on two threads, but again, Craig is maintaining that he is innocent and that what he’s accused of did not happen. What ever happened to the principle of presumption of innocence? Maybe he deserves a chance like any other accused person to defend himself?

    Huh? What are you talking about? Have you followed this case at all? Craig’s case has gone far beyond the accusation stage. He admitted his guilt. His subsequent claim that he was not really guilty would be tantamount to a confession that he perjured himself in order to “resolve” the charges against him. The Smoking Gun and other sites displays copies of the plea agreement that he signed, which contains the following:

    From the “Petition to Enter a Plea of Guilty-Misdemeanor”
    I have reviewed the arrest report …

    I understand the charges against me in this case, which are Disorderly Conduct, … a Gross Misdemeanor….

    I understand that the court will not accept a plea of guilty from anyone who claims to be innocent.

    I now make no claim that I am innocent of the charge to which I am entering a plea of guilty.

    The entire document can be found here

    Is there a Republican alternate universe in which one can simultaneously plead guilty and be presumed innocent?

    Clavos – RE: Call it simplistic if you wish, but philandering is hardly a sign of good character. It also leaves the practitioner vulnerable to pressure and blackmail (though obviously not in this case), and is not, or shouldn’t be, acceptable in a United States Senator.

    Life is what it is. Aside from this, my main point is that it should be up to Idaho voters to decide Craig’s fate. In 2004, a Hawaii Republican representative, Brian Blundell, was arrested for groping an undercover police officer. Even though the governor supported his re-election, the voters did not return him to office. Seems fair enough to me.

    RE: Or, perhaps the presence of all the hypocrites, thieves, liars, and corruption in congress is merely a reflection of the country at large these days.

    Mark Twain on Congress:

    “It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress.”

    “I never can think of Judas Iscariot without losing my temper. To my mind Judas Iscariot was nothing but a low, mean, premature, Congressman.”

    “Fleas can be taught nearly anything that a Congressman can.”

    “All Congresses and Parliaments have a kindly feeling for idiots, and a compassion for them, on account of personal experience and heredity.”

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    What ever happened to the principle of presumption of innocence?

    Uh, I believe he gave up that presumption when he pleaded guilty. Now he says, “Oh, did I say guilty? I meant not guilty. I just forgot to say ‘not’.” Now he wants his lawyer to get it reversed. Not bloody likely.

    Remember Mark Foley?

    Oh, yeah, wasn’t he the guy who had this IM conversation with an underage page on the fine art of masturbation. What a stand-up guy. I can’t believe he’s not still in congress…

    Maf54 (7:47:11 PM): good so your getting horny
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:47:29 PM): lol…a bit
    Maf54 (7:48:00 PM): did you spank it this weekend yourself
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:04 PM): no
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:48:16 PM): been too tired and too busy

    Xxxxxxxxx (7:50:57 PM): i dont do it very often normally though
    Maf54 (7:51:11 PM): why not
    Maf54 (7:51:22 PM): at your age seems like it would be daily
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:51:57 PM): not me
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:01 PM): im not a horn dog
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:07 PM): maybe 2 or 3 times a week
    Maf54 (7:52:20 PM): thats a good number
    Maf54 (7:52:27 PM): in the shower
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:42 PM): just cause i shower in the morning
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:47 PM): and quickly
    Maf54 (7:52:50 PM): in the bed
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:52:59 PM): i get up at 530 and am outta the house by 610
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:03 PM): eh ya
    Maf54 (7:53:24 PM): on your back
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:30 PM): no face down
    Maf54 (7:53:32 PM): love details
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:34 PM): lol
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:36 PM): i see that
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:53:37 PM): lol
    Maf54 (7:53:39 PM): really
    Maf54 (7:53:54 PM): do you really do it face down
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:03 PM): ya
    Maf54 (7:54:13 PM): kneeling
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:31 PM): well i dont use my hand…i use the bed itself
    Maf54 (7:54:31 PM): where do you unload it
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:54:36 PM): towel
    Maf54 (7:54:43 PM): really
    Maf54 (7:55:02 PM): completely naked?
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:12 PM): well ya
    Maf54 (7:55:21 PM): very nice
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:24 PM): lol
    Maf54 (7:55:51 PM): cute butt bouncing in the air

    Maf54 (7:57:05 PM): i always use lotion and the hand
    Maf54 (7:57:10 PM): but who knows
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:24 PM): Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:24 PM): i dont use lotion…takes too much time to clean up
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:37 PM): with a towel you can just wipe off….and go
    Maf54 (7:57:38 PM): lol
    Maf54 (7:57:45 PM): where do you throw the towel
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:48 PM): but you cant work it too hard….or its not good
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:57:51 PM): in the laundry
    Maf54 (7:58:16 PM): just kinda slow rubbing
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:23 PM): ya….
    Xxxxxxxxx (7:58:32 PM): or youll rub yourslef raw
    Maf54 (7:58:37 PM): well I have aa totally stiff wood now

    Maf54 (8:01:21 PM): i am hard as a rock..so tell me when your reaches rock

  • Alec

    By the way, apparently it is other Republicans who are taking the lead in condemning Craig, even though, according to some, Craig should be presumed innocent despite his own guilty plea to the disorderly conduct charge. For example, Mitt Romney, from a recent AP story:

    Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney said Thursday that Larry Craig’s conduct was “disappointing and disgraceful,” but stopped short of calling for the Idaho Republican to resign from the Senate….

    “I think it’s appropriate when there’s been conduct that we think is disappointing and disgraceful to indicate that. I don’t think there’s a responsibility to try to gild the Lilly in a setting like this,” said the former Massachusetts governor. “I think individuals across the country expect us to have the same expression that they feel, which is disappointment.”

    For myself, I think that Craig is sad. If he really is a closeted Republican, then trying to live up to an inane and self-defeating “family values” creed in which he must deny his identity in order to be a viable Republican politician only insures that he will have to sneak around to satisfy his desires, and only made it more likely that he would end up in situations where he would liable for arrest for indecency violations.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Dr. Dreadful: In the opinion of little ol’ left-leaning moi, on the other hand, the motives of the cop in the next stall seem far more suspect than Craig’s.

    The cop was just on the job, apparently the low man on the totem pole at the station house. There had been complaints of public sex in that particular rest room, so he was there running an undercover sting operation. Probably had no idea he would land such a big fish.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Should have been clearer: I meant not his personal motives, but those of the police chief whose agent he was.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Either way, I think the cops were just doing their job, responding to complaints. What do you think their motivations were?

  • Alec

    Dave – RE: Remember Mark Foley? Hounded out of office for his horrible acts of paedophilia? Except that from the very beginning it was clear that he had not actually broken any laws. Nonetheless he was forced to resign and his name has been permanently smeared. Do any of you even know that the investigation concluded last week and no charges wer ever brought against him? The media covered the hell out of the accusations that ruined him, but they’ve shown little or no interest in the actual facts of the case or the fact that most of what he was accused of turns out not to be true.

    Apparently President Bush was taken in by the evil media, since he called Foley’s behavior disgusting. Mitt Romney apparently was taken in as well, noting in a recent interview:

    “I think it reminds us of Mark Foley and Bill Clinton. I think it reminds us of the fact that people who are elected to public office continue to disappoint, and they somehow think that if they vote the right way on issues of significance or they can speak a good game, that we’ll just forgive and forget. And the truth of the matter is, the most important thing we expect from elected–an elected official is a level of dignity and character that we can point to for our kids and our grandkids, and say, `Hey, someday I hope you grow up and you’re someone like that person.’ And we’ve seen disappointment in the White House, we’ve seen it in the Senate, we’ve seen it in Congress. And frankly, it’s disgusting.”

    Are the Republicans who have disavowed Foley and Craig fools or cynics?

    In any case, Foley was not hounded from office. The Republicans forced him out in order to cover their own asses, as various news reports show:

    “Mark, I don’t know how you can go on in this race,” said Fordham. “Do you really want to spend the next 40 days of the campaign running around your district explaining sexually explicit e-mails to pages to your constituents?”

    Fordham thought he made it clear that his old boss needed to quit, but Foley couldn’t bring himself to do that. The N.R.C.C. headquarters was around the corner, and Fordham made it his next stop. There he found Representative Reynolds and Speaker Hastert. But before he could finish relaying the awful news, Reynolds’s face got purple and he began to shout, “He needs to resign, and he needs to do it right now!” The Speaker just sat there, silent, according to Fordham: “He didn’t react at all. This was weeks before the election, and they’re thinking how this is going to impact us.”

    Everyone agreed that Foley needed to resign. They weren’t sure how. A lawyer was called in and advised that Foley sign a letter to be delivered to Speaker Hastert on the floor of the House. Just then, Fordham was alerted that Foley’s sister Donna Winterson had arrived at the congressman’s office, totally unaware of the meltdown. He ran over and found Winterson sitting on the sofa, “looking like she was in a coma.” Her life, having been devoted to her brother’s campaigns, would be crushed, too. It took Fordham five minutes to get her composed enough to walk back to the house, where they would finally have to swallow the bitter pill.

    “You have to get out,” Fordham told Foley.

    “You mean I have to drop out of the re-election race?

    “No, you need to resign your seat in the House. Today. Now.”

    Fordham says that Foley dissolved into hysterics. His sister wrapped her arms around him, and they rocked together, in tears.

    — Vanity Fair, “Don’t Ask, Don’t E-Mail,” January 2007

    As for the investigation itself, The August 30 Sun-Sentinel reported the following:

    “State and federal law enforcement officials began investigating the online messages almost immediately. An FBI investigation has so far not moved beyond a preliminary stage, an FBI source said. It was unclear if that investigation would proceed if Florida officials brought no charges against Foley.

    Earlier this week, Florida Department of Law Enforcement officials said they asked to review federally owned computers Foley used during his 12 years as a congressman. But House officials blocked the release of the computers and the documents contained in them, citing a court decision that protects congressional working papers. Authorization to review such documents must be granted by the individual lawmaker involved, House officials said.”

    And David Roth, Foley’s attorney is reported to have said the following: [Foley] “does not blame the trauma he sustained as a young adolescent for his totally inappropriate e-mails. He continues to offer no excuse whatsoever for his conduct.”.

    Were the instant messages, such as one in which Foley presses for details about a page’s genitalia and his sexual habits, illegal? Maybe not. Were they unethical? Ask the parents of the pages. Ask the pages. Republicans are free to embrace Foley again, as they reclaimed Trent Lott, for example; and voters can decide whether they want a man in office who sends suggestive messages to Congressional pages.

    GOP presidential candidates should be asked in all future debates whether they think that Foley should be re-instated. I would be very interested in hearing their answers.

  • SonnyD

    If every politician with some issue in his private life that he didn’t want made public were to resign, there wouldn’t be any government left. Senators are the worst of the lot. They all think they should be president even though very few of them have ever been qualified for the job they have.

    Creepy as the public restroom scene is, the public should be more concerned about the secret deal making, corruption, and misuse of taxpayer dollars that goes on all the time.

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    It all goes hand in hand, so to speak, Sonny.

  • http://www.myspace.com/x15 Douglas Mays

    Oh god, the fallout is ridiculous. I mean, I am glad it is a Republican. They sure have their thong panties in an uproar over this one…They sure don’t have any idea what to think or do over this issue.

    In a way it is like instant karma for the pathological attacks made by Republicans towards other parties, citizens, etc. The actions of the Republican party seem to be based on the book of bedwetters.

    The whole deal is to look at the dude’s body of works. Him goofin’ off the clock shouldn’t really be anything unless he was part of the Michael Vick dogfightin’ ring or a crack addict or, or or…..

    If he was forcing something, that is another issue, rape. Butt, it wasn’t that. Just askin’. How many times here in Seattle do I get asked by a guy (on a bus or something) to maybe come over for some wine, etc…I just roll my eyes and say no. Just like any woman has to say to some agressive male. Only the guys have it easier sayin’ no. the queers listen and respect ‘no’. Woman have to deal with a higher aggression level from asshole males.

    Just think if airport security found buttplugs in his briefcase or something?

    What to think? I’ll just enjoy the humorous fodder from it all.

    best,
    DM

  • Clavos

    Exactly, Ray (#26).

    And until we start in earnest to weed all the offal out of congress, we’ll continue to get the same crappy level of governance we’re currently getting and so richly deserve.

    Americans have been too complacent (and too forgiving) for too long; it’s time to start holding elected officials’ (at all levels) feet to the fire.

    Accountability now!

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    It gives the Republicans a whole new meaning to “smokin’ in the polls.”

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I agree that it’s fun to watch ‘family values’ hypocrites squirm. Most of us commentators on the left have been more inclined to giggle at the absurdity of this than to rise up in outrage.

    Republicans have been quicker to call for Craig’s resignation, because he is an embarrassment, as was Foley. The legality or illegality of what they did is secondary; it’s the political fallout that caused them to be ostracized by their peers.

    Of course Mark Foley won’t get his seat back, and it’s hard to imagine anyone even suggesting this, or suggesting it will actually become a presidential campaign issue. He’s dead meat and will remain so. Fairness is irrelevant.

    I do have to express my discomfort at the idea of this sort of police sting in a toilet. These kinds of entrapment have been used to harass gays for decades. Bathroom sex may be distasteful; so is this way of discouraging it.

  • Clavos

    Handy,

    Leaving aside of his (admittedly inflammatory) rhetoric, I’m interested in what you think of Jim Naugle’s proposal to eliminate bathroom sex in Ft. Lauderdale?

    He has proposed the acquisition of special (and very costly!) bathroom stalls/toilets which somehow (I’m not sure how) will prevent that activity.

    Here’s a better description of how they work.

  • bliffle

    If Craig stays he will, no doubt, be a constant figure of fun and japery for democrats. So the reps will throw him to the hounds. It’ll be easy.

  • Dr Dreadful

    I don’t know about handy, but I can’t read it for laughing.

    A case not so much of applying a sledgehammer to a nut as a piledriver to a pollen grain.

    Paging Rube Goldberg…

  • Clavos

    If Craig stays he will, no doubt, be a constant figure of fun and japery for democrats. So the reps will throw him to the hounds. It’ll be easy.

    Wouldn’t you?

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    I’m listening to the Craig police interview tapes. My question is, who the hell reaches over to the next stall to pick toilet paper off the floor to use? Whatever else, he is one nasty SOB!

  • http://www.chancelucky.blogspot.com chancelucky

    Can’t the president just pardon the guy? He’d do at least that for Victor Ashe.

    I’m very pro-choice when it comes to one’s adult sexual identity. If Senator Craig does not wish to be considered gay, that is his right. I don’t think the genders of who he actually has sex with matter. Apparently, there are many heterosexual men who have sex with other men. If he were still alive, Roy Cohn would be the first to tell you that.

    What somebody does in the privacy of his own airport bathroom stall is completely his business. I just ask that they flush afterwards and leave the stall at least as clean as they found it. This is part of what makes America great and is one of the lessons of freedom that I darely hope we bring to the Middle East. If the surge works, which I’m sure it will, I look forward to the day when straight men in Iraq and Iran can have sex with other men in private stalls in public places without the fear of police intrusion.

    Besides, what’s this country coming to if there’s no presumption of innocence for those who plead guilty?

  • REMF

    One thing that’s quite telling is Nalle’s defense of the actions of Foley and Craig. Hhmmm, I wonder…
    (MCH)

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    One thing that’s quite telling is Nalle’s defense of the actions of Foley and Craig. Hhmmm, I wonder…

    If Dave will permit me, I’ll interpret on his behalf: he is taking a contrarian position because the rest of the world is piling on. [And in the case of Foley, correctly pointing out that the young men in question were not minors, and it was all IM chat, with no physical contact or suggestion thereof.]

    However, in the case of Craig he shouldn’t accuse “the Left” of piling on, when in fact it is the Right doing it. Us lefties are just watching, amused.

  • http://www.taylorhickblues.blogspot.com Jewels

    The man sounds like a complete fool. According to the latest news briefing, he entered the guilty plea because he did not want to miss a flight – funny he had time to ‘dally’ in the facility long enough to incur such accusations.

    I don’t care if the man wants to declare he’s not gay to every news source he grants face time with – where there’s smoke…

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    Please– let’s not use the term “piling on” in this context. (I couldn’t resist.)

  • JustOneMan

    Not sure why all the liberals in here are jumping on this guy…

    1. All he was doing was the same thing most average homosexuals do on a daily basis – cruise bathrooms for strange sex with other consenting adults. So if you say the gay lifestyle is equal to hetrosexuals isnt he being descriminated against?

    2. The some libs in this blog defended clinton who did worse and lied…

    I guess this is more proof that liberalism and homosexuality are mental disorders…

    JOM

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    I was waiting for this one, JOM. How can you compare Clinton’s dalliance with an intern–whom he at least knew– to seeking anonymous gay sex in a public restroom? Them is apples and oranges, bud.

  • JustOneMan

    Gee Ray…so a married heterosexual man having sex with an employee in a PUBLIC PLACE – THE OVAL OFFICE,lying to the american public on TV and lying under oath is beter than an old queer looking for some action in the John in a public place?

    What are you some sort of homophobe???

    Hmmmm…theres a moral compass for you boys and girls!

    JOM

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    Craig is also married, and is denying allegations now, after he pled guilty.

    This has nothing to do with homophobia–it has to do with hypocrisy. And I guarantee you, Romney comparing this to the Clinton affair will come back to bite him in the ass (no pun intended.)

  • JustOneMan

    What a minute its like Bizarro World…

    Craig married to a woman…cruising for penis in public buildings

    Bill married to a Dike…crusing for chocha in public buildings

    JOM

  • JustOneMan

    Ray…yer still a homophobe!
    JOM

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    And you, JOM, are a walking non sequitur.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Regarding my earlier comment, from what I had heard at the time Craig was maintaining his innocence.

    As I understand it now he signed off on a misdemeanor of disorderly conduct NOT any sexual charge, and he began to protest his innocence then they attempted to escalate the charge on him.

    There’s a very important difference between disorderly conduct and sexual misconduct.

    Dave

  • JustOneMan

    Oh gee “non sequitur” so intellectual….

    JOM

  • Baronius

    Who is advising this guy? I wonder if he’s really so vain that he thinks he’s untouchable. Really, anyone, finish this sentence: “I support Craig, because he demonstrated good judgement when he ______”.

  • JustOneMan

    “Reached under the stall and asked if he could
    bl-w me.”

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Regarding Handy’s explanation in my absence, it’s more a case that I’ve got no patience with anyone who persecutes people based on their sexual behavior. It’s none of our business. And I don’t care if the people opportunistically exploiting it are Republicans or Democrats. I mentioned leftists because they’re the ones I see going after Foley here on this site for the most part.

    As a Republican I don’t really have a problem with some of our elected officials being gay, but as I wrote in a prior article I think they could avoid a lot of these problems if they got out of the closet. Barney Frank got away with having a gay sex ring run out of his house because he was honest about it. That makes all the difference.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    I don’t have a problem with them being gay, either, but I DO have a HUGE problem with anyone, R or D, who professes one thing and does the exact opposite, which this guy has done.

    Some family values he has, and his constituents elected him in large part for that reason, because he told them that’s what he believed in.

    It’s not just the family values issue; it’s any of these guys who tell the people one thing and do another. Unfortunately, most of them are guilty of that these days.

    It’s time to crack down on these jerks.

  • Alec

    RE: As I understand it now he signed off on a misdemeanor of disorderly conduct NOT any sexual charge, and he began to protest his innocence then they attempted to escalate the charge on him.

    No government official anywhere attempted to escalate the charge on him. His plea included a fine and probation. He was done as far as the justice system was concerned.

    He protested his innocence when the Idaho newspaper, after getting the information about his arrest and plea, printed its story about his past.

    His protestations have been soley so defend his reputation against the accusation that he is gay. I don’t have a problem with this. However, no one can claim that there are any other charges hanging over him that are directly related to his original disorderly conduct AND Interference with Privacy charge.

    There is a sexual component to the Interference with privacy charge that he also copped to. It’s all at the Smoking Gun site, which I referenced earlier.

  • http://www.chancelucky.blogspot.com chancelucky

    It’s pretty common to plead down to the lesser charge. It’s correct to say that the subsequent conviction is not for a “sexual offense”, but it’s also misleading to claim that.

    Craig’s disorderly conduct did not consist of playing his car stereo really loud late at night. It was the direct result of doing things that were consistent with the actions of individuals seeking gay sex in a public place.

    Al Capone was convicted of evading taxes….it doesn’t mean that’s the real reason he wound up at Alcatraz. It’s fair to say that Capone was a gangster who ordered and probably participated in murders. It’s fair to say that Larry Craig was inovlved in a sexual incident in a public place where he reached out to the local police.

  • Dr Dreadful

    JustOneManBrainCell has the nerve to write:

    Ray…yer still a homophobe!

    …having a few comments earlier bullshitted about the

    thing most average homosexuals do on a daily basis – cruise bathrooms for strange sex with other consenting adults

    Strange, none of the gay men I know do that daily, monthly or indeed ever. Of course, I don’t follow them about. Nevertheless, there is a voice which seems to be emanating from the region of his ass.

    Unless, of course, he speaks from first-hand experience…

  • JustOneMan

    Dread are you talking about the gay men you meet at turnpike rest stops, adult bookstores or in the airport mens room?

    The only voice eminating from someones ass is from yours..sounds like a some sort of gerbil dialect…

    JOM

  • http://culturesalad.blogspot.com Ray Ellis

    JOM– it’s time for you to go away now. Do feel free to stop by once you’ve evolved into a sentient being.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Exactly, Doc…

    When JOM says that most gays cruise bathrooms for sex everyday, that’s a sign that lets you know you can pretty much ignore anything else he has to say.

  • Alec

    re: This has nothing to do with homophobia–it has to do with hypocrisy. And I guarantee you, Romney comparing this to the Clinton affair will come back to bite him in the ass (no pun intended.)

    Actually, this may have much more to do with political theater, GOP style, than anything else. Now that the tape of the interview between Craig and the cop has been released, it is all the rage throughout the media and the Internet.

    This stuff will likely take up the entire news cycle throughout the Labor Day holiday. It’s an easy subject for people to grab onto. Ultimately, though, Craig may likely resign and be replaced by another Republican, one who is more certifiably manly and all family values. And note that Vitter will stay in place because his replacement would be made by a Democratic Party official.

    Meanwhile, the Bush Administration has quietly enacted the pilot program to allow Mexican trucks to travel deep within the United States (as opposed to the old 20 – 25 mile commercial zone), ultimately displacing American truckers and decreasing border security. By the time anyone reacts to this more fully, it will be old news, a done deal, business as usual.

    Details on this, and the program’s quiet listing in the federal register can be found here.

    Meanwhile, somewhere down the line, Craig will be thrown a bone for taking one for the team. And Republican true believers will lull themselves to sleep at night, comfortably laboring under the delusion that the party of family values and hard working Americans cares about them, even though the GOP is sticking it to them at every opportunity.

  • Clavos

    “And Republican true believers will lull themselves to sleep at night, comfortably laboring under the delusion that the party of family values and hard working Americans cares about them, even though the GOP is sticking it to them at every opportunity.”

    Which the Democratic Party would never do…

  • Irene Wagner

    12 and 13 year old boys to old to be taken into the ladies room with their moms when they have to “go” are in airport restrooms every day. That makes those places as much of a target for pedophiles as schools, playgrounds and church youth programs. As long as the undercover cop can be trusted more than one of the top 100 members of the Legislative Branch, sure, he belongs there.

    As for Craig, he was too much of a liability for “family values” newcomer Mitt Romney to schlep around in the presidential election, but Idaho is a very, very Red state. Redness covers a multitude of sins in Idaho. Craig’ll do fine.

  • JustOneMan

    Funny how this story breaks just in time to hide the hillary chinese money laundering story…hmmm

    JOM

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    Gosh, you’re right, JOM, it’s a conspiracy. Impeach Clinton!

  • Irene Wagner

    In #62, I didn’t come right out and say that Craig was guilty. I’ll have to admit, though, as an Idahoan who was disgusted when my state was (further) polarized by the proposal of anti-gay legislation, I was seized by the delicious irony of Craig’s bust. My tone in #62 reflects that.

    People under stress without legal counsel do strange things. (Did Padilla get his finger prints all over an Al-Q’ application before his arrest, or during his three year solitary confinement?) One would expect a US Senator to be a little more savvy even under pressure from an intimidating cop–I’ve read part of the police transcript–but still, Craig is innocent under the law until proven guilty.

  • Clavos

    “Craig’ll do fine.”

    Too bad. The SOB should be drawn and quartered for violating the public’s trust.

    “Craig is innocent under the law until proven guilty.”

    Irene, he’s done, he already pleaded out. He’s not innocent, by his own admission.

    All that’s left is for you folks in Idaho to demand he resign his sorry ass out of the Senate.

    And if you don’t, the Republican hierarchy will.

  • troll

    (Alec – *Meanwhile, the Bush Administration has quietly enacted the pilot program to allow Mexican trucks to travel deep within the United States (as opposed to the old 20 – 25 mile commercial zone), ultimately displacing American truckers and decreasing border security. By the time anyone reacts to this more fully, it will be old news, a done deal, business as usual.*

    while I appreciate your notion of Craig as distraction your view of the pilot program is myopic imo –

    the question is: has the old squabble that led to the suspension of ICC permits to Mexican truckers to operate in the US – reciprocal access to Mexican markets for US truckers – been solved – ?)

  • Irene Wagner

    I sure wouldn’t vote for Craig, Clavos, not even if seconds before I had pulled the Republican lever for RON PAUL IN 2008. I made that decision well in advance of the news of his arrest, though.

    I wouldn’t be a RON PAUL supporter if I made my next step based on what the Republican hierarchy will do. He wouldn’t be running, either. Romney marches to their drumbeat, and his announcement distancing himself from the head of his presidential campaign in Idaho was probably made “under orders.”

    But the next step of the LOCAL Republican hierarchy, in Idaho? I’ve got a gross of microwave popcorn ordered, and am keeping my eye on the Boise Weekly.

  • Nancy

    Wotth’hell is JOM doing back here? I thought he was banned from BC for being terminally juvenile & potty-mouthed?

  • troll

    Nancy/Jom = X/moonraven

    solve for X

  • Clavos

    #70:

    Everyone

  • Nancy

    In any event, Clavos, I think, has it most spot-on: there would be less uproar & scorn – by anybody – if the subject had been less judgemental, arrogant, & intolerant himself in the past. About the last thing people will tolerate is a flaming … hypocrite. They do say your own actions/words come back to bite you, some day, somehow. Kinda like Rush L. getting convicted of drug abuse, after all the trashing of other people’s drug problems – yet demanding that HE be treated with consideration & sympathy! For some reason, the right seems more rife with these pharisees than the center or left.

    I’m wondering what it is about public restrooms & gays? Surely there are better places to find a date than a public toilet – or are gay males so low in their own self-esteem – or so squalid & promiscuous in their tastes – that sex in a public restroom is just fine with them? I think that’s what revolts non-gays the most about gays & gay behavior, even tho probably a preponderance of gay men most likely never do that; & what is the most prevalent image of gays in the minds of the general population: the promiscuity & public in-your-face-ness of their behavior. Frankly I don’t like seeing hetero couples pawing, necking, groping, or hanging all over each other in public either. IMO, physical affection stronger than mild behavior is something that belongs at home, not in the public domaine, regardless of who is doing it.

  • Nancy

    Sorry, Troll; I failed algebra. Please interpret? I’m just surprised to see him [JOM] back when last I heard he wuz banned for life for being rowdy or something. So it was just a suspended sentence, then?

  • http://www.robot-of-the-week.com Christopher Rose

    That’s easy, X = Nalle.

  • Clavos

    I wrote “Nalle” first, Chris, but decided that answer didn’t really cover it sufficiently.

    Hence, my answer of “everyone.”

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Nancy, it’s only a small subset of gay men who cruise bathrooms for anonymous sex. I promise you I never have, and I don’t know anyone else who has.

    This kind of anonymous cruising is especially attractive to married closet cases, which it would be reasonable to assume includes Craig and that other dumb-dumb down in Florida.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Speaking of people we thought had been banned, Tom DeLay was the first guest on Chris Matthews’s Hardball last night to discuss the Craig case. Horrifying and disgusting as ever, he asserted that the Republicans get rid of their bad apples, but the Dems in contrast re-elect theirs. Yes, ludicrous. Matthews pinned him to the wall most effectively. Watch at your own risk.

  • Nancy

    I imagine it was pretty laughable, Delay of all people pontificating on the need of the GOP to ‘clean house’. Of course, he himself would be oblivious to it, what?

    I understand restroom cruising is not typical of all gays, but unfortunately it’s what sticks in the minds of the public, & even I still don’t know why anyone would pick up anyone in a toilet (ugh!) fer chrissakes. I could see a bar, or a restaurant, or a club, or even a park … but a toilet? Jeez … that’s either extreme desperation or extreme self-image problems or something.

    As for the self-timing toilet, that’s a hoot. How awful. I mean, what about the poor soul who’s having gastrointestinal problems after a particularly incendiary bowl of chili & has to sit for awhile? Guys have it rough, sometimes.

  • REMF

    X = Clavvy

  • troll

    wanna cookie – ?

  • Alec

    Clavos – RE: Which the Democratic Party would never do…

    The point is to stop the abuse, not just switch abusers.

    You can tell when a person has thrown off the Pavlovian training that marks a true believer when he no longer reflexively – and irrelevantly — thinks or writes, “the Democrats would be worse,” when confronted with proof of Republican Party betrayal.

    On the other hand, a true believer is still deeply conditioned when he snarls that the bums should be thrown out and integrity in government restored, and then goes rigid and glassy eyed, and mumbles, “Must. Vote. Republican.”

    Dave Nalle makes a great point when he notes the degree to which Craig and the GOP are hoist by their own petard. Since they must denounce homosexuality as a sin or a “lifestyle choice” which must never be chosen, there is no real way for a GOP politician to live as an openly gay person and be accepted by the party or the party faithful. Despite his long years of service and reliable vote, Craig must be sacrificed in order for the party to remain pure. Unlike Mr. Brothel DiaperPants, David Vitter, Craig can’t just declare that his wife and baby Jesus have both forgiven him, so “bygones.” He’s caught in the trap of his own cognitive dissonance, and so must disappear.

    The double irony is that even though the hysterical charges of “witch hunt” and demonic Democratic Party plots are starting to bubble up, the plain fact is that even though Craig has been made the butt of jokes, it is only the Republicans who severely insist that he “obviously” must resign. Meanwhile, everyone ignores the fact that gays make up a significant, and necessary, portion of the staffs of both parties, and the media, gay organizations and other politicians still provide cover for closeted gay politicians in both parties. The hypocrisy is not just Craig’s possible dissembling, but the despicable way in which Washington, and especially the GOP, is busy expelling the “disgusting, disappointing” blot that is Larry Craig while scrambling to return to business as usual as quickly as possible.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I neglected to respond to Clavos’s thoughtful sharing of the Ft Lauderdale mayor’s latest idiocies. The proposed timed pay toilets do look pretty snazzy, though. And they play music, too! “Afternoon Delight”? “Your Body is a Wonderland”?

  • Nancy

    How about “Macho Man”? It’s got wonderfully funny lyrics. I mean, if you gotta pay, you should be entitled to a tad bit of entertainment, too.

    Alec (#81) makes a great point, in that a big proportion of staffers & other denizens of The Hill are very gay indeed – & everybody knows it, but for the GOP-ers it’s a case of Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell, yet they’re just as queer in makeup as the Dems, not to mention the MSM/lobbyists/assorted hangers-on that feed on the peripheries of the ever-so-rich feeding grounds of the congressmaggots themselves. Not to mention quite a few of said congressmaggots, who (it is rumored) indulge in all kinds of shenanigans in secret, while denouncing said shenanigans in public – as long as they’re being done by the other side, or course.

    This place is like a circus. Except for the fact that they’re screwing around with the lives of an entire nation, it would/could be funny; but they are, so it’s not.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    Well said, Alec…

    Republicans are anxious to have him resign so they can sweep the whole thing under the rug, pretend it never happened, and hope voters have a short memory. Most recent word is that his resignation is imminent.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Not all Republicans. I’d just as soon Craig stick around and drag this out as long as possible, embarassing the party and making the point yet again that living a hypoctirical double-life is idiotic and counter-productive.

    The GOP has room for openly gay politicians. For the record, Mark Foley was effectively openly gay. He did not have a ‘beard’ like Craig and many others. He lived a flamboyantly gay lifestyle and his constituents were definitely aware of his sexual orientation, and liked him anyway. It’s one of the reasons I’m so troubled by the way he was railroaded by the party, the left and the media when he had really not done anything all that terrible.

    Dave

  • bliffle

    The problem is not that Foley or Craig did this or that, but that WE, the voters, are so intolerant and inflexible and unthinking that politicians find it easy to cynically manipulate us through those prejudices.

  • Alec

    Nancy – RE: In any event, Clavos, I think, has it most spot-on: there would be less uproar & scorn – by anybody – if the subject had been less judgemental, arrogant, & intolerant himself in the past. About the last thing people will tolerate is a flaming … hypocrite.

    Except, of course, as you note, those Republicans who are busy defending family values — in between their visits to brothels or restrooms.

    RE: I’m wondering what it is about public restrooms & gays?

    Oh the irony. If Larry Craig could live openly as a gay or bisexual man, and if gay marriage were legal, he could happily stay home and cuddle up to his spouse, significant other, or domestic partner. Instead, as a tortured confused closeted gay, he is sneaking around squeaking “I’m not gay, but my anonymous party date is!”

    It also turns out that a lot of this behavior is from men who, like Craig, identify themselves as straight, but who need the thrill not only of anonymous sex, but who also get off on the risk of being caught or discovered.

    And there is nothing particularly recent about this behavior in some men, gay or straight, high or low. In the 19th century, British prime minister William Gladstone would personally walk the streets of London, trying to get prostitutes into rehab at one of several organizations he had founded to help them. And although biographers still debate the exact nature of his relationship with some of them, it is very clear from his diaries that he was drawn to specific prostitutes as a kind of escape from “the stresses and disappointments of his political and social life.” His wife knew about these nocturnal activities, and some prostitutes were even invited to his home. But as a biographer notes: “But it is also clear that for Gladstone rescue work became not merely a duty but a craving; it was an exposure to sexual stimulation which Gladstone felt he must both undergo and overcome. As he admitted to himself,he deliberately ‘courted evil’.”

    RE: I think that’s what revolts non-gays the most about gays & gay behavior..

    Funny, you don’t often hear about gay women doing this kind of thing, which suggests how ridiculously selective and stereotyped many notions of “gay behavior” are. And lesbians, I guess, tend to be especially invisible, unless they are seriously misbehaving. No one has ever suggested that Dick Cheney’s daughter hangs out in public restrooms.

    Aside from this, it always amazes me that some neanderthal males can brag about “banging a chick” in front of their buddies, complete with drunken vomiting, at a bachelor party or fraternity bash, and still be “revolted” by the supposed behavior of gays. And of course, we have the example of David Vitter, who likes brothels. And we have the example of Republican Senatorial candidate Jack Ryan, who took his wife, actress Jeri Ryan, to sex clubs three times and was hot to see her get it on with other men (she refused and later divorced him). He tried to weasel out of condemnations of his behavior by at first denying it, and then claiming that whatever a married couple wanted to do together was “Okay fine.” As long as there was none of that gay stuff.

    Oh, yeah, gays and “gay behavior” is revoltin’, but straight behavior is cool, OK, loverly. What’s that line in Matthew? “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”

    But as you note, a “preponderance of gay men,” like most people in general, just want to live their lives and don’t have a burning need to have sex in public.

    Dave – RE: The GOP has room for openly gay politicians.

    How many gay Republican politicians have openly campaigned with their life partners at their side? I know of one California congressman who “everyone knows is gay,” but who has never acknowledged it, and who has never been spoken of as being gay by conservative talk show hosts. It is really quite funny to see how even his political opponents maintain the lie about this politician’s sexuality, and have never outed him. However, I note that apart from this one case (just because it is so spectacularly hypocritical), I don’t really keep track of the sexuality of the candidates of either party.

  • bliffle

    As for Foley, IMO the valid cricism against him is abuse of power for sex. Much as many females encounter at their work from overbearing males. A congressman who imposes on a subordinate for sex is out of line for trying, and actionable for succeeding.

  • bliffle

    I figure that it’s none of my business who the candidates wife/husband/pal/lover/sigificant-other is, since it, perforce, should be irrelevant to his policy stands.

    Of course, we all have morbid curiosity about who a politician has sex with, but it ought be separated from policy issues in our minds just as it should be in the politicians mind.

    If the politician allows undue influence from his (whatever), just as with undue influence from the bankers and union bosses and yachting pals that he associates with, we should be able to see that influence and constrain it as best we can, either through lawsuit or ballot.

    So the key is transparency. But when Craig denies his culpability in such a flagrantly untrue way, simply by lying and then lying again, we are justified in rejecting him as a liar, but not as a gay or whatever.

  • Clavos

    Alec,

    Just for the record, I don’t want to see Craig thrown out because he’s gay; I would think you’d realize that from my comments on other threads.

    I want him thrown out precisely because he’s one of those “family values” hypocrites. if he’d been caught in a flophouse with a hooker, I would still be calling for his ouster.

    And not only his ouster, but those of anybody on capitol hill who betrays the public trust in any way: morally, fiscally, politically, corruption, etc.

    I am sick and tired of the crap we are continually faced with from ALL those assholes in congress.

    And the reason Vitter wasn’t ousted was political; his replacement would have been a Democrat, whereas Craig’s will be a republican.

  • Nancy

    I think the transparency thing is correct: I have a lot more respect for someone who comes out & says they’re gay. That’s fine; got no problem voting for them – IF they’re also honest & well behaved, I don’t care. As Bliff says, not my business – altho I also agree w/Clavos that someone who sneaks around on their spouse is Out because it says bad things about their character – or lack thereof. Witness Newt Gingrich, fulminating about Clinton all the while he was porking his own extramarital goodie on the side. Didn’t matter that he finally married her; his hypocrisy is monumental in that regard. THAT is what puts NG beyond the pale in my eyes. On the other hand, if the spouse knows, & doesn’t care or even approves – well, that’s not my business either.

    Ref: gay restroom behavior, I dunno – never heard of lesbians ever making it a habit to troll public restrooms. If they do, they’re awfully subtle about it, since none ever seem to get busted & no one ever complains that it’s a problem they way they do about gay males & public restrooms. Maybe being women, they have a better sense of good hygiene, or classier behavior? I don’t know. I’ve only met a couple of openly lesbian women in my lifetime, & they were extremely fastidious. I think they’d rather be dead than pick up anyone – or anything – in a public restroom! Guys seem to be less picky.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    It has to do with the differences in general between the ways women and men think about/fantasize about/seek out sex. Gay men and lesbians are generally very different from each other in that regard, as are straight men and women. When both potential partners are men, the effect is doubled.

    But the stereotype of gay men always looking for anonymous trysts is just that: a prejudiced generalization based on the behavior of a few.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    How many gay Republican politicians have openly campaigned with their life partners at their side?

    It’s not enough to see how things are and cry “why”, it’s also good to see how things could be and ask “why not?”

    Handy. Ignore anything JoM says. No point in even responding.

    As for Foley, IMO the valid cricism against him is abuse of power for sex. Much as many females encounter at their work from overbearing males. A congressman who imposes on a subordinate for sex is out of line for trying, and actionable for succeeding.

    Except, bliffy, that there was no evidence he ever abused his power or sought sex with pages while they were minors or while they were working in the Congress. Which is one of the reasons why tghe vilification of Foley so offends me.

    Dave

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    How many gay Republican politicians have openly campaigned with their life partners at their side?

    It’s not enough to see how things are and cry “why”, it’s also good to see how things could be and ask “why not?”

    Handy. Ignore anything JoM says. No point in even responding.

    As for Foley, IMO the valid cricism against him is abuse of power for sex. Much as many females encounter at their work from overbearing males. A congressman who imposes on a subordinate for sex is out of line for trying, and actionable for succeeding.

    Except, bliffy, that there was no evidence he ever abused his power or sought sex with pages while they were minors or while they were working in the Congress. Which is one of the reasons why tghe vilification of Foley so offends me.

    Dave

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ

    “As for Foley, IMO the valid cricism against him is abuse of power for sex. Much as many females encounter at their work from overbearing males. A congressman who imposes on a subordinate for sex is out of line for trying, and actionable for succeeding.”

    So how’s about that BJ Clinton gettin’ some extra-marital lovin’ from a barely-legal unpaid subordinate? And then lying about it, both to the American people and under oath?

    But, hey, at least it was with a chick!

  • Dr Dreadful

    RJ, stop projecting.

    Otherwise, what’s your point?

  • Alec

    Clavos – RE: Just for the record, I don’t want to see Craig thrown out because he’s gay; I would think you’d realize that from my comments on other threads.

    Yes, I got your earlier points on this. Didn’t mean to cause any confusion with regard to this.

    RE: I want him thrown out precisely because he’s one of those “family values” hypocrites. …And not only his ouster, but those of anybody on capitol hill who betrays the public trust in any way: morally, fiscally, politically, corruption, etc.

    The thing is, Craig’s disorderly conduct arrest is not directly related to the public trust. His constituents might still feel that he is not fit to serve, but I think the issue here is more complex than you allow. Also, I naturally tend to discount any easy “zero-tolerance” one-size-fits-all automatic ouster rules for elected officials. Would you have bounced Grant as General in chief of the Union forces because he supposedly drank to excess? I applaud the response attributed to Lincoln – “Find out what Grant drinks and send a barrel of it to each of my other generals!”

    RE: And the reason Vitter wasn’t ousted was political; his replacement would have been a Democrat, whereas Craig’s will be a republican.

    We absolutely agree on this. Too bad conservatives aren’t holding the Republicans’ feet to the fire on this difference in treatment. The party line appears to be that Craig needs to go because he pleaded guilty to a crime while Vitter only confessed a sin, but was not prosecuted for or convicted of anything. With Vitter, neither morality nor family values appears to be in play.

    Nancy – RE: someone who sneaks around on their spouse is Out because it says bad things about their character – or lack thereof.

    Are you going to require signed statements from all political candidates, their spouses and children that their personal lives meet your standards? The plain fact is that neither you nor I nor anyone else knows anything about Craig’s marriage, or whether he was sneaking around on his wife, or whether she knew about his other life and had made her own peace with it. Many politicians set themselves up for a fall when they parade their families out as if everything is sparkly, when their lives are more complicated. And voters who eat this crap up as though a sparkly looking family is shorthand for virtue are just setting themselves up for disappointment.

    RJ – RE: So how’s about that BJ Clinton gettin’ some extra-marital lovin’ from a barely-legal unpaid subordinate?

    Monica Lewinsky was a 22 year old volunteer who had previously had an affair with a 32 year old teacher. She was an adult, well over the age-of-consent in every jurisdiction in the known universe, and happily entered into her relationship with Clinton. This is not a barely-legal intern by any definition (and no one waste my time by trying to label me as a Democrat or Clinton-defender).

    RE: And then lying about it, both to the American people and under oath?

    Didn’t Scooter Libby lie under oath? But here, the true believers wail, “But with Scooter, there was no underlying crime!” yadda yadda yadda

    Meanwhile, it appears as though Craig will make an announcement about his career plans on Saturday. The Republicans are hoping that his likely successor, Lt. Gov. Jim Risch, is so clean that he squeaks.

  • REMF

    “And then lying about it, both to the American people and under oath?”

    No worse than GW Bush lying about his (non)service at Dannelly…or how much coacine he used to snort…or WMDs…or…

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Just so you all know, Craig resigned a couple of hours ago.

    Dave

  • Irene Wagner

    My daughter and I listened to it live on the radio (not enough time for us after her guitar lesson to drive downtown to witness an event I think she will remember all her life, just as I remember Nixon’s farewell victory sign.)

    You know, the more I think about this Dave Nalle, the pisseder I get. NONE of us has videos of what happened in that stall. His guilty plea may have been, truly, in hopes that it would all ride out and he could finish (what might have been the last term in a long senatorial career) in peace. Lots of people in the crowd were shouting “Don’t Resign” as he approached the podium, and many local Idaho Republican leaders, including Governor Otter, were up there on the platform to lend him moral support.

    Like I said, I wouldn’t have voted for Craig if he’d run in 2008, but he was elected by the people of Idaho, many of who still wanted to be represented by him in the Senate. (who KNOW who will be appointed as a NONELECTED replacement.)

    I’m angry that the Federal, National Republican party strong-armed the representative of Idaho, whom the Idahoans elected, to resign.

    It increases my fervor to work for the RON PAUL in 2008 presidential campaign. He’s a states rights guy.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ

    “Didn’t Scooter Libby lie under oath?”

    Apparently. And because of that, he’s also a convicted felon. So I guess BJ Clinton is an unindicted felon?

  • Arch Conservative

    I’m still waiting for the “why William Jefferson should resign post.”

    But I won’t be holding my breath while I wait.

  • moonraven

    I think he should be FORCED to stay in office as a constant reminder to all you hypocritical US voters just WHAT you are voting for.

  • Arch Conservative

    Ph boy Moonbat. You told us……..

    You really put us in our place…..

    The power of your last post has caused me to lose all faith in not only the American political system but the nation itself and reconsider communism and socialiasm.

    In fact I think I’m going to run right out and pickup some petchoulie and a fucking CHE t-shirt!

  • Clavos

    Doc, Doc!! Get your beach chairs and cooler! Hurry!

    I’ll be right back with the beer!

    This is it! Finally!

    The match made in Heaven: Arch and MR!!!!

  • Nancy

    It will definitely be a verbal sparring match worth watching.

    Meanwhile…when my best friend’s brother decided to “come out” & go permanently gay, our biggest concern was not his gayness, but the promiscuity of the lifestyle – which he confirmed to us, & which his subsequent conversations/anecdotes have likewise led us to believe. From what we hear from him & his current (& we hope, permanent) partner, the swinging life is the norm for gays, not either celibacy or stable partnership. So … which is it? Now mind you, he hangs with a very Theatre crowd. Maybe that has something to do with it? Maybe he’s just in with a wild bunch? Or is he right, & it IS the ‘norm’ – for males, at least?

    I really can’t say, because I don’t know that many gays, or people who admit they are. I just know what I read and/or hear from the few I do know.

  • Nancy

    Well, I’m waffling about what I think about all this, because on one hand I don’t think someone’s sex life is or should be anyone else’s business, but on the other, lying, sneaking around on a spouse, & public hypocrisy are bad traits in those we consider our leaders; if they’ll do that sort of thing with someone as close as their families, what would they not hesitate to do to us, the public, that they have no such ties with?

    Actually, I’d rather have someone lying to the public about his sex life, than about weapons of mass destruction, the economy, or other, more germaine stuff that involves me – which his nookie quotient does not. However, it doesn’t excuse him. I’m minded of Ted Kennedy & HIS shenanigans, & frankly I think HE ought to have been pitched out on his butt long ago, as well. God knows he’s certainly earned censure & then some, repeatedly, thru his overlong tenure. And I approved of Gingrich getting kicked out when HE got exposed – but mainly because all the while he was porking his honey, he was acting the arch-hypocrite about Clinton. The hypocrisy bothers me, I guess; not the screwing around. I can forgive philandering; I can’t forgive hypocrisy.

  • moonraven

    I am NOT changing my position.

    (Arch should, meanwhile, be smothered in PATCHOULI.)

    Beer–how lowbrow of you sods.

  • Dr Dreadful

    “germaine”

    Is that a Freudian slip…?

    Clav, put the beer away. I think this calls for alco-pops.

    ;-)

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com/ handyguy

    And now the AP says Arlen Specter has persuaded Craig to stay and fight for his seat. This is an unending laff riot, or nightmare, depending on your party affiliation.

  • http://planetjapan.org Doug DeLong

    For Craig to be “reconsidering” his resignation is a gift to the Democrats, pure and simple. It just guarantees that the story will continue to haunt the Republicans for weeks to come.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ

    when my best friend’s brother decided to “come out” & go permanently gay, our biggest concern was not his gayness, but the promiscuity of the lifestyle – which he confirmed to us, & which his subsequent conversations/anecdotes have likewise led us to believe. From what we hear from him & his current (& we hope, permanent) partner, the swinging life is the norm for gays, not either celibacy or stable partnership. So … which is it?

    Anyone who knows a few gay men knows that the stereotype of the “promiscuous homosexual male” has some truth to it. And you can’t really blame them. After all, if heterosexual women were as willing as heterosexual men, society would be a non-stop gang-bang, and civilization would collapse. What prevents that sort of catastrophe from happening is the fact that women (or at least most women) will apply the brakes on endless, meaningless, anonymous sexual encounters with random partners. But with two men (and no women) involved, there is no one to apply the brakes.

    Of course, the opposite also appears to be true. Lesbian couples are apparently the least promiscuous group, of the four possible gender pairings. This is termed “lesbian bed death.” And it makes sense. If you remove the inherently-strong male impulse for lots of sex entirely from a relationship, the number and frequency of sexual encounters is likely to be relatively small.

    At least that’s my theory. :-/

  • Nancy

    I dunno. Let’s hear from BC-ers who are gay. Handy says the image is way overblown; my friend’s brother says it’s spot-on. Anybody else want to weigh in?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I don’t have statistics, just empirical knowledge of friends and acquaintances over the years.

    But single guys in their 20s will do what single guys do, of course. Many guys go through a period of partying and then find themselves wanting to settle down at some later point. There are plenty of committed couples, although that doesn’t necessarily mean 100% monogamous and faithful in all cases.

    It’s not vastly different from the straight world, but percentages and time frames of singles and couples may not be the same.

  • moonraven

    You peeping toms will be happy to know that Craig is considering NOT resigning after all.

    He is such a standup guy that he claims the only thing he did wrong was pleading guilty.

    That shows you the wonderful impact Speedy Gonzales has had on US justice….

    Go Speedy!