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Who Suppresses and Oppresses Muslims?

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I have to admit that I get a little tired of hearing Muslims say how they are not treated well in the West. The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) often emphasizes how unfairly Muslims are treated across the United States, rather than showing the great contributions Muslims have made to America and emphasizing how over 4 million Muslims live in the United States in peace and with freedom of religion. Many more millions live in western Europe, in most cases with little interference with their culture and lifestyle.

Since I often give Islam and Muslims the benefit of the doubt in my writings and interviews, I feel entitled to point out some significant hypocrisy that cannot be rationally denied. CAIR quoted the Quran in a recent e-mail, so I feel justified in using the same quotes as my scripture for this article:

“Be steadfast in your devotion to God, bearing witness to the truth in all equity, and never let the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: (for) that is closest to piety…” The Holy Quran, 5:8-9
“God will never change the condition of a people until they change that which is within themselves.” The Holy Quran, 13:11

Who suppresses and oppresses Muslims? The answer is patently obvious for the world to see: other Muslims! Let’s recount some of the examples we’ve seen in the last three decades:

The Ayatollahs of Iran took over their country and murdered tens of thousands of their opponents, as recounted in Nobel Peace Prize Laureate Shirin Ebadi’s book, Iran Awakening. The name of Neda will live forever in Iran as a symbol of this oppression. She is the young woman shot dead by government gangsters when President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad won reelection under suspicious circumstances. To this day, more than three decades after taking power, the Ayatollahs suppress their people by letting their thugs beat them up for dissent. Do they actually think they can crush a thought? How do they think God guides them in this?

Saddam Hussein suppressed the Shi’a majority in Iraq for decades. George W. Bush was not wrong about Saddam Hussein’s crimes against his fellow Muslims. Regretfully, he opened the floodgates for a Sunni/Shi’a civil war, which killed far more Iraqis than Americans ever did. Muslims killing other Muslims!

Hosni Mubarak’s goons controlled Egypt for three decades, suppressing what became 80 million Egyptians. The intelligentsia could do nothing about it. It took a few twenty- and thirty-something techies adopting American style rhetoric and tools to shame him so much he finally quit. It took 2 million Egyptians finally shouting the truth. It remains to be seen whether the new army-controlled Egyptian government will actually facilitate free elections. Or, will they follow the lead of their predecessor and continue to suppress the will of their people? I don’t know!

Muammar Gadhafi is notorious for oppressing and suppressing his fellow Libyans. He’s murdering them in plain sight, where the world can see. When the approbation of the world is brought down upon him by the international media, he simply shrugs and kills some more. He seems to have trained his children to the same murderous pattern.

And then we have the royal families of the Arabian Gulf, whose suppression is widely accepted by their populations suffering from an advanced case of Stockholm syndrome. You remember, that’s the mental affliction where the prisoner begins to bond emotionally with his jailers. His emotional stress is so high that he loses his sense of self. Hostages who develop Stockholm syndrome often view the perpetrator as giving life by simply not taking it. Captives often misinterpret a lack of abuse as kindness and may develop feelings of appreciation for this perceived benevolence.

I used “his” in the previous paragraph, because in some of those cultures there is no feminine principle evident. The rulers and religious leaders suppress half of their populations outright; their women. They suppress women from holding jobs, driving cars, and they force them to walk around in black shrouds with their faces veiled. They have most of the men thinking this is sexy, and countenanced by Allah, even though a superficial reading of the Qur’an clearly suggests that Allah had no such intention. And even though the men themselves are suffering other forms of oppression from their leaders.

CNN’s Ben Wedeman reports from Libya that the Gadhafi opponents in eastern Libya are saying, “Where is the world?” They’re hoping we’ll send the cavalry to their rescue, like an old American western movie. But they’re really conflicted about our help. They want us to put American lives and aircraft at risk with a no-fly zone, but they don’t want our help on the ground. What are they thinking?

The long espoused lie that Americans are trying to steal their oil is nuts. Their oppressive leaders stole it long ago. We Americans, with the exception of a few oil companies, could care less who sells us the oil. The truth is that the oil producers cannot drink their oil, so they must sell it on the world market, where we Americans can buy it for more or less the same price, regardless of the political and religious beliefs of the people who pump it from the ground.

I have never once pumped a gallon of gas where I had any clue about the source of the crude oil that made it. The so-called Oil Embargo of the early 1970s clearly proved that the primary effect of an oil embargo is to reduce the cash flow of the people trying to enforce it. I do remember being in a line for gas one time in about 1973, but that seemed a small price to pay for OPEC to learn that lesson.

I say again: We have 4 million Muslims in the United States, and they largely live in peace, with no suppression or oppression from our government. Yes, they are asked to answer a few questions, from time to time, which are often justified by Muslim ambivalence about fighting the very forces within their own faith who would rather blow them selves up than find a way to live in peace. At the same time, they are no different from Congressman Peter King, who has been asked over and over by the media about his hearings. That’s the American way!

Injustices do happen to Muslims in the United States, but I doubt that they are in greater proportion than the population at large. A few Muslims are killed in hate crimes, but so are police officers murdered by white supremacists on the highway. I think the numbers will probably confirm that there are proportionally more police officers killed by hate crimes than Muslims.

I’m only saying that if Muslims want to experience less hate in the United States, they would do well to emphasize the positive aspects of their culture. More Americans will thereby be persuaded of the positive values of Islam. Suppression of Muslims globally is largely executed by other Muslims, not by Americans. This is an undeniable fact. A large part of the reason most Americans do not trust Islam and Muslims is informed by the inhumanity we see Muslims visit upon one another, and by the hypocrisy of expecting Americans to fight for Muslim Freedoms when what most Americans hear from Muslims is criticism of our culture.

Like most Americans, I pray that our government will send in the cavalry and save innocent lives. Very few of us like to see Muslim rulers take it upon themselves to kill their fellow Muslims so they can continue to rip them off. Murder is murder! Like most Americans, I would be even more enthusiastic if I thought the oppressed and suppressed Muslim masses would respect my culture, my spiritual beliefs, and me when we’re done. The 4 million Muslims in North America expect and get that respect from most Americans most of the time, despite what you might think if you listen to CAIR and Fox News, two sides of the same coin.

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  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    If Muslims want to experience less hate in the United States, they would do well to emphasize the positive aspects of their culture.

    That presupposes, of course, that there are any. You devote several pages to Muslims abusing each other, without citing anything positive. Perhaps that’s because Islam is a fundamentally negative force in the world.

    I think you’re right in saying, “A large part of the reason most Americans do not trust Islam and Muslims is informed by the inhumanity we see Muslims visit upon one another….” As I see it, inhumanity is the essence of Islam.

    Personally, I’ve already made my mind up about Muslims in America. I believe their subculture adds nothing of value and, worse, causes serious harm through radicalization. The best thing Muslims as a group can do for America is to reject Islam lock, stock and oil barrel.

  • Arch Conservative

    “Perhaps that’s because Islam is a fundamentally negative force in the world.”

    Oh jeebus Alan, now you’ve done it. You’re going to have every left wing moonbat and his mother calling you a racist (even though Islam is a religion and not a race.)

    Islam, more than any other religion in the world today, is rife with examples of intolerance and violence towards others. That’s a fact. It does the world no good whatsoever to deny this fact but yet the left is completely vested in doing so while positing that Pat Robertson makes Mummar Quadaffi and his ilk look like boy scouts.

    There can be no surer sign of mankind’s ultimate ugly demise at his own hands than the fact that so many in the world today can so easily subscribe to the warped, twisted, perverse, degenerate mindset that is the modern American left.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    In my view it is actually monotheism that is at fault.

    Islam today is at the same point as Christianity was a few hundred years ago. Hopefully the faster pace of life these days means it will become less volatile more quickly…

  • Arch Conservative

    Have you been drinking American bottled water Christopher?

    All of a sudden your comments have aligned themselves with reality.

    Next thing we know you’ll be joining the EDL………

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Don’t really understand your point, Archie; I’ve been arguing the same line for ages. So have you, of course, but your diatribes against the left are just silly…

  • Arch Conservative

    Christopher, not being an Americana and having to personally deal with the left in this nation on a daily basis certainly colors your perception of my animosity toward the left as “silly.”

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    No it doesn’t, Archie. The same crap is found all over the world and on both sides of the political spectrum.

    So long as you focus on just one side you are always going to be a part of the problem not the solution.

  • Doug Hunter

    This raises an interesting point especially as it relates to political fault lines. The default position of the left is to choose who they deem oppressed and side with them against the oppressor, they side with poor over rich, female over male, LGBT over straight, minority over majority, etc., etc. which leads to their inclination to support Muslims, to excuse and rationalize their actions. I think this issue is critical in Europe right now and has them rethinking their politics. Many times things are exactly as they seem and those viewed as oppressed are suffering at the hands of the oppressor, but what if as may be the case with Islam it is the very nature of the religious systems of the ‘oppressed’ themselves causing the problem then all the PC handwringing is simply wasted energy, fiddling while the world burns.

    #3

    I think it’s pretty silly to compare relative morals of Muslims to Christians (or anyone really) who lived hundreds of years apart. The question becomes then why, Christians being equally evil in your mind, did they get hundreds of years ahead in the realm of morality in the first place? As far as your silly notions regarding Monotheism, Athiests have been only a tiny minority of leaders throughout history yet the horrors of Communism were carried out under atheists, Hitler though only questionably atheist was antagonistic towards religion as it held an alternate authority to the state. In short, atheists and those openly against religion have committed some of the most horrible genocides and horrific atrocities known to man despite being a tiny minority of those in positions of power. I’m not religious so I don’t have a god in this fight, but your position seems a bit self serving and biased. Humans with religion do good and bad things, humans without religion do good and bad things, it’s a bit silly to take one half of the world, the bad, and lay it all at the feet of religion without considering the other half as well. Christianity is part and parcel your heritage and embodies ideas that molded the very society you live in today whether you embrace it or not. In polite western civilization christianity is on it’s way out, I don’t see any need to kick it on the way down.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Doug, perhaps it is you that is being pretty silly. I didn’t compare anybody’s relative morality, nor would I ever use the word morality in any circumstances.

    Christianity, false as it is, is simply a lot older than Islam, a more recent variation of the same fake dogma.

    I’m well aware that some atheists have done some bad things but fail to see how that is any way relevant to my point, which is simply that monotheism is a load of superstitious nonsense we can all do without.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Alan and Arch –

    Apparently, neither of you are aware of the fact that historically speaking, mainstream “Christianity” has killed more people in the name of God than has any other religion – including Islam.

    Furthermore, history shows that Jews have been FAR safer among Muslims than among mainstream ‘Christians’. The hatred that many Muslims have for Israel is NOT so much against Jews, but against Zionists. There’s a difference – go educate yourselves.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Hermes –

    I recommend The Shi’a Revival by Vali Nasr. He’s a professor at the Naval Postgraduate School down in California, and his book was on the Naval recommended reading list. It’s quite enlightening, particularly when it comes to the conflicts between Sunni and Shi’a, and how – in their own words – they mistrust each other more than they do America or even Israel.

  • Arch Conservative

    So by your logic you’d rather be a Jew in the middle east than a muslim in a predominately Christian nation like the US Glenn?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    “… nor would I ever use the word morality in any circumstances.” #9

    Why wouldn’t you? A perfectly ordinary English term and it’s got nothing to do with religion except by association.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Arch –

    Note the words, “historically speaking”. At this point in history, Jews are safer than ever before. At THIS point in history, they’re safer in “Christian” countries…but this has only been the case since the end of WWII…and IIRC even then there were many tens of thousands who were persecuted in the (supposedly secular) Soviet Union.

    Their safety will last only as long as it remains politically incorrect to persecute them…and they know it. For all the things they do wrong – and their hands have innocent blood on them, too – considering what they’ve faced throughout history from every culture where they’ve settled (except for in China, interestingly enough), I cannot blame them for their national paranoia.

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Roger, precisely because of its association; it is so tainted and usually used to manipulate people.

    Ethics is a better term that has no such corruption.

  • Doug Hunter

    #10

    Not because Christianity is any better or worse but because it was a central religion of the people we have good records of. The inquisition kept detailed records and actual death tolls were minor by modern genocide standards. The crusades were to retake lands that Muslims had previously sacked, it sounds like dual credit there. Atheist communists killed by various estimates tens up to a hundred million people in the last century alone directly because of their beliefs (granted atheism isn’t a religion). Hitler was responible for WWII and the equal number of deaths, in addition to outright genocide there and he was antagonistic toward religion. Without any direct massive genocides to their credit and since historically the population of the world just wouldn’t support many 100,000,000 man kills I don’t see how, even if you take their 20 centuries of history combined you can get a total to match what non-religious/atheists have done in recent history. Whoever made that claim probably had to stretch a bit with the numbers, I’d be interested to see your source though.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Glenn, Thanks for the pointer to the book. Best regards, Skip

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    It’s telling and oh-so-predictable that no subsequent commenter has bothered to refute my assertion that today’s Muslim subculture in America adds nothing of value and, worse, causes serious harm through radicalization.

    Instead we get the same tired–no, make that, exhausted–arguments from the usual BC pigeonholers. Every discussion must immediately be reduced to Left vs. Right or to the ancient history of one religion vs. another, all leading as inevitably as day into night to Hitler. (See #16.)

    What an unimaginative and monotonous lot you are!

    And now, to paraphrase Norma Desmond in Sunset Boulevard (1950), “Alright, Mr. Chief Censor, I’m ready for my comment to be deleted.”

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    @15

    I try not to be influenced in my usage of language by fools and restore it instead to its proper form. Ethics often comes close to the meaning, but the two terms aren’t always interchangeable.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Doug –

    I agree that atheism killed far more than any one religion ever has, and possibly more than all religions put together. But that still does not absolve mainstream “Christianity” of what it has done in God’s Name…and of mainstream “Christianity’s” grand hypocrisy in their public persecution of Islam.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Alan, I will refute your argument. At the very minimum our Muslim community helps us understand the Muslim world, which includes 1.6 billion people. We cannot just build a fence around the United States and pretend Muslims do not exist. We need to find a way to live in peace, and that includes understanding Muslim culture. Best regards, Skip

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Alan –

    It’s telling and oh-so-predictable that no subsequent commenter has bothered to refute my assertion that today’s Muslim subculture in America adds nothing of value and, worse, causes serious harm through radicalization.

    That, sir, is the same kind of crap that people said about every immigrant group that’s ever come to America, including Italians, Irish, Mexicans, Catholics, Jews, Roma, Jamaicans, Russians…you name it.

    And I’ve personally heard – and said – the same kind of crap said about blacks back in my racist days.

    Alan, you really, truly need a reality check. When it comes to ethical behavior of the common man, no one ethnic or religious or political or racial group is any worse than any other. It is only the LEADERS of those groups that can be judged as ethically better or worse.

    Look at the Nazis, Alan – in many ways their government resembled a religion, and we all know what they did. What’s more, the German equivalent of Joe Everyman joined in the persecution of the Jews (and other religions AND the unions). But look at the generations since then! Nazi Germany was FAR worse by any measure than Islam…and according to your logic, then, we should say of the Germans what you just posted about Muslims.

    And Nazi Germany isn’t the only example. We could say the same about Catholics, or protestants, or…pick a religion or a culture – your choice! – and I’ll point out how their hands also drip innocent blood as well!

    So get off the Muslims-hate-freedom bandwagon and start seeing not only the bad but also the good within nearly ALL humans!

  • Cannonshop

    #18 What has ANY “Demographic” really contributed, Alan? our society is rooted in the accomplishment of individuals, not the movement of the Masses, so your question regarding what Islam has or has not contributed to the United States is as much a red-herring as asking what the Mormons have contributed.

    There is no “Value of Utility” required for the free exercise of one’s religious beliefs, so long as that exercise does not harm your neighbour.

    What surprises me, is that I have to explain this position to a Conservative, Alan-thinking of people based on demographics is how Liberals(large “L”, no relation to the classical definition that included most of the founders) justify most of their positions and decide who should get help at the (coerced) expense of others.

    I’d suspect that the majority of American Muslims are no different, in the practice of their day-to-day life, than the majority of Baptists, Mormons/LDS, Jews, Buddhists, or (gasp!)Atheists in America.

    PEOPLE do good things, and PEOPLE do bad things- Religious or Irreligious, that’s how it works HERE-or at least, how it is SUPPOSED to work.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Skip Conover (#21), what’s to understand? The message of bloodthirsty foreign savages and their deluded or duplicitous American apologists is clear enough.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Glenn Contrarian (#22), if there had never been a Nazi Germany for you and other BC commenters to cite by way of historical example, your comments collectively would be 50% shorter. Please add that never-ending shitload of excess verbiage to your list of Nazi atrocities.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Alan –

    That’s why I included the following line: “We could say the same about Catholics, or protestants, or…pick a religion or a culture – your choice! – and I’ll point out how their hands also drip innocent blood as well!”

    But to get you to see humans equally would require you to get rid of your hate – and it looks like you’re not yet willing to do that.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Alan,

    Thank you for keeping this commentary going! This is the type of interchange that has made our country the strongest in the world. The amazing thing about vigorous debate is that it tends to work like tempering steel–it pounds the impurities out and strengthens the final result.

    Alan, have you ever had the privilege of traveling in the Muslim world? I have, and can attest to the fact that your “bloodthirsty foreign savages” hyperbole is well over the top.

    I trust you were not applying the “deluded and duplicitous American apologists” comment at me. Even a cursory reading of the article at the top of this string will show that it is critical of a certain attitude of many Muslims in the United States.

    There are many things I do not like about Islam, but that is no different from my thoughts about fundamentalist Christians, who taught my daughter to tell me that I am going to hell, and arch conservatives, who let Wall Street run amuck, causing a major hole in my retirement accounts.

    Best regards, Skip

  • Doug Hunter

    #19

    I’ll admit I’m a horrible offender when it comes to that and often have ignorant word selection as I’m not trained in Philosophy, Sociology, or even Politics. On the other hand, perhaps even by the action of strictly defining terms and relationships the educated are being set up to limit their range of thought to a predefined path… they probably have a word for that.

    #25

    Alan, if the hubris and vitriol were removed from your comments they would be nonexistent which is how I will continue to treat them. Your sole contribution to this community, if you want to call it that, is keeping others occupied with your inanity.

  • Doug Hunter

    #26

    Extending the useful construct that all individuals/races/sexes are created equal (they’re not, but close enough for government work and everyone has the right to be treated as such until they prove otherwise) to the idea that all cultures/religions/political systems are equal is lunacy.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    @28

    I haven’t defined the term, have I? to say nothing of having “strictly defined” it. You’re just barking at something you simply don’t understand.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I’m sorry if my comments don’t seem to fit in with what you all have been saying – but there was a funeral of a family killed in a village down the road from me here in Samaria. There were 20,000 people at that funeral because a lot of us were genuinely pissed off that some Arab bastard slit the throats of a rabbi, his wife and three of there six children WHILE THEY WERE ASLEEP IN THEIR BEDS! In Gaza, the scummy pigs celebrated the killing of Jews!!

    I don’t give a tinkers’ damn who oppresses or suppresses Muslims. When we can get these damned squatter/terrorists kicked out of OUR land, then we can discuss philosophical questions. Till then, may G-d avenge the blood of Rav Fogel, his wife and three children, z”l. If I get to avenge their blood sooner, so much the better.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Ruvy (#31), please accept my condolences and outrage at the appalling murders you describe.

    Just one correction, if I may: your comments do fit in with what has been written on this thread, and give the lie to any suggestion that Islam is a religion of peace.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Thank you, Alan, for your kind words.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Ruvy–I am sure all civilized human beings also share your shock and outrage.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Some thoughts for you to ponder while you contemplate who oppresses and suppresses Arabs.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    The worst mistake you can make is to assign blame to all Muslims for those murders, or for however many murders. Remember who’s killed more Jews – Muslims? Or Catholics?

    Keep your eye on the LONG view of history, and not just what’s happened since Israel was granted its independence last century.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Glenn, you need a good pair of glasses – and you need to clean them well. I never condemned all Muslims. Even in my anger, I never did that. I’ve always been careful to separate out the Wahhabi fakers from the Muslims, and the Shi’a messianists as well. Read my comments carefully.

    In this instance, I talked about the Arabs – particularly the squatter/terrorists in Eretz Yisrael whom American and European intellectuals (who always stink like stale wind broken too long ago and whose stink never went away) enthusiastically back. And frankly, Glenn, I’m sick of the bastards. May they rot in the farty hell they have made for themselves.

    What you seem to be telling me is that I should hate Christianity more than Islam. And I do. But right now, it is the “Christians” the west who back up the Wahhabi to murder us Jews off. When you end the Sabbath only to find out that some Wahhabi soaked, European incited Arab has murdered a family as they slept – and a bunch of savage animals danced for joy in Gaza over this – the threat at hand – the leftists and anarchists who incite this shit, and the Arabs who actually commit it – are my target of choice.

    When you take the long view, Glenn, all you discover is that we all die.

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    Ruvy,

    First, be well and safe.

    Although I haven’t seen much about the massacre in the traditional U.S. media, and while this video was promptly pulled from YouTube and FaceBook, it has been noted at some conservative sites. I even contributed by little bit of snark here.

    Meanwhile, the White House is up to its usual:

    The White House condemned on Sunday evening the Israeli government’s decision to approve hundreds of new housing units in Judea and Samaria following the massacre of the Fogel family in Itamar.

    The White House said in a statement in released that “settlement activity is illegal and constitutes an obstacle to peace.” Isn’t peace just great!

    Again, be well and safe.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    This article on Palestinian incitement: Jews receive ‘Der Stürmer’ depiction from Ynetnews reminds us all who the real enemies of the Jewish people are:

    “We have repeatedly demanded that the Palestinians put a stop to this phenomenon. The Palestinian PR machine is funded by the international community. The school textbooks are funded by the Europeans, the media outlets by international sources….

    The bottom line is that European Jew-hating régimes back this process of turning kids into murderous animals. Europeans nod with quiet approval while the incited Arabs do the dirty work.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Dan, thank you for getting that video removed by the (Jewish) Arab ass-kissers at Facebook and Youtube. Watch that video, the rest of you. I want vengeance. I want blood. And this lets you see why.

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    Ruvy, re #39 — I am afraid that it is not only the Europeans. Please see my Comment #38.

    Dan(Miller)

  • Costello

    Sorry to hear about the tragedy, Ruvy. Even sorrier to see a blogger using the death to promote himself. Grow up

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Promote myself, Costello? I haven’t the time for such bullshit. If I seem disgusted with the way everybody coddles over the Arabs when they are savage animals, you have gotten my message. If you think that is promoting myself, you are truly a fool.

    Grow up!

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    Ruvy, although I know that you did not intend to suggest that I did, I didn’t “get it removed;” I merely picked up on the removal via another article in one of those backwards conservative blogs linked in my short article. Some of the joyous celebrants can be seen in a comment here.

    I suspect that the video and some photos of the joyful folks celebrating in what we have come to call Palestine will go rather “viral.” They should. They are the sorts of thing which need to be publicized so that the folks not experiencing the pleasures of the “peace process” will have a chance to understand what’s happening.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    Re Comment # 44, Sorry to hear about the tragedy, Ruvy. Even sorrier to see a blogger using the death to promote himself. Grow up[.]

    While addressed to Ruvy, I don’t know (or care) whether you were referring to Ruvy or to me. Be that as it may, permit me to suggest that you seem either to have misstated your set of values or to have a grossly warped set. If the latter, I do hope they are not common but fear that they may be. They do seem to be shared at the White House, see my Comment #38.

    Dan(Miller)

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    I understand that you’re not wanting to blame all Muslims…but your reference says that they’re all – at least in the Middle East – are taught from birth to hate the Jews. That sounds like painting with a rather broad brush to me….

    One other issue (as we’ve discussed before) is the fact that the Palestinians see Israel as the “twice-promised land”, that England first promised to the Palestinians for their own independent homeland, and then – after Chaim Weizmann essentially saved the British Navy in WWII by his successful synthesis of naval gun propellant – promised the same to the Israelis. What Israel says or does (and regardless of their own historical view), then, essentially doesn’t matter – as long as the nation of Israel exists where it is, the Palestinians will still call it the ‘twice-promised land’ and call for the extermination of Israel.

    And I see absolutely no solution to this most Gordian of all political knots. In the long run the situation is simply untenable, and I suspect that Israel’s only real hope for long-term survival is (1) to maintain a significant military majority, and (2) use every tool at their disposal to manipulate the West to keep their support.

    Both of these factors are absolutely essential. I know you think little of diplomacy, Ruvy, but it DOES usually forestall war – and the longer we do without war, the better.

  • Costello

    Ruvy, obviously your grief is affecting your reading comprehension. Step away from the computer until you csn think clearly.

    I saw no need to diginfy your ghoulish behavior by addressing you by name, nor do I understand why you would think I care about your opinion regarding anything else. The fact that now you want to show off your politial narrowmindedness by tying this to Obama is even more pathetic.

    Quick, how is Obama to blame for the Japanese earthquake? Plenty of dead bodies there to stand upon as you beg people to look at you

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/joseph-cotto/ Joseph Cotto

    Any government which bases its rule of law in fundamentalist Islam is doomed to a perpetual state of strife. As Skip has shown, when the Jihadists are done conquering the world for Allah, they will turn their swords on one another in the next phase of their quest for as pure of a theocracy as possible.

    I am not sure why the American left at all sympathizes with these people as they most certainly do not harbor any intentions of freedom or democracy; quite the opposite in fact. Perhaps it is because they deftly play the victim card, or they are natural enemies of those who support true individual rights and liberties (Mainstream conservatives), Regardless, I am quite certain that the pro-Islamist leftists in our country are being laughed at behind their backs by the very ones on whose behalf they so fiercely advocate. The greatest irony of all, though, is that in the unthinkable event that caliphate were achieved, these fools would give new meaning to the term of “loving someone”, or in this case a group of people, “to death”; that being the Jihadists whom they masterfully played the role of useful idiot for.

    While Muslims can never be stopped from oppressing one another, it would be wise for all first-world nations to adopt far more restrictive immigration policies regarding Muslims. I am not calling for an all-out ban, of course, but only the utmost care can be taken while determining who to let in, and much more importantly, who to keep out.

  • LynnfromBC

    Islam is supposed to be about submission and if one was able to read the Koran appropriately and understand it (not many people do understand it and that includes many muslims)they would find a it reads like a carefully crafted business plan. There is a master, slaves, and all the split factions.

    One doesn’t have to live among a middle eastern family very long to figure out the pecking order, or to understand that the undercurrent of racism and hatred amongst themselves infects everything they do. In one way or another people of Islam are deprived of the very basis of their own religion, and the actual truth of what is actually written in the Koran. According to the Koran they are also supposed to believe in the Holy Bible, but they are led to believe that the Bible has been corrupted and truth is only known to very few. that is where the trouble begins, and the confusion over who was the son of the slave and who was the son of the free woman began. They question who the son of Abraham that would be like a wild donkey in the desert actually was (not a direct quote Ruvy but you know what I am talking about).

    Suspect truth leads to suppression of the people because they are scared. Knowledge is power and the leaders of Islam use it to their advantage. However, just because a person understands how a system works, doesn’t mean they believe in it or live that way.

    Shalom Ruvy and keep safe over there.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F Cohen

    Hi, gang it’s me again. Your favoritest-er-est person in the whole wide world.

    Appearing here perhaps for the soon to be very last time before I am permanently banned from the Comments pages of Blogcritics. So get your shots in while the “getting” is still good.

    I agree with many, disagree with many others – but not wildly so. However please do allow me my worthless two cents herein; or rather to stay in character; please allow me my goddamn, many expletive-deleteds, excessively prolix and verbose litany of Thesaurus exhausted, descriptive adjectives; again, worthless two cents.

    Now, to be rather crude, insensitive, churlish and brutish; and I am certain that in my doing so I shall be politically correctly labeled as a zenophobic, racist, jingoist, chauvinist, flag-waving, bigoted yahoo and typical mean-spirited, miserable, misanthropic MOFO.

    But as I see it, when the civilized nations of this world, i.e., US, Japan and Western Europe; finally get our scientific, technological and business shit together; and then through a combination of science based and technologically driven alternative fuel sources and traditional ones as well; and become thoroughly energy independent; to the point in which we no longer are dependent on OPEC oil; to a point where we are not only energy independent, but we actually obviate the value and need for OPEC so that their oil essentially becomes worthless – we can then tell the Arab wienies to go pound sand and eat their landlocked seas of sand and rubble and wash down this gritty, bitter repast with their own oil.

    And I assure you dear readers, they will then revert back to their true form and identity – to their thoroughly primitive and backward roots of the 7th century. Oh, wait a minute, please excuse me – they’re already there.

    I unlike many of you am not at all sanguine about the chances of the Muslim and Islamic world ever fully joining the rest of the civilized world in this century or in any other future century. It just simply is not in their character nor in their cultural and civilizational DNA. Again to be rather crude about it all, they are at heart, and in mind and soul just 10th century camel jockeys at best, at worst, they are biblical misfits deep within the Dark Ages and even further behind that.

    As the Greek Tragedians would intimate, it is a path of self-ruin and self destruction in the most primitive and uncivilized terms and means imaginable. And this path to self-ruin and self destruction is ordained, is inexorable and ineluctable, is doomed to darkness, intolerance, primitiveness and backwardness, and constant internecine, tribal warfare. Sorry but they have both feet firmly planted in the 7th century, the Quran and primitive tribalism; with an utterly all-abiding, all-consuming, visceral distrust and antipathy toward anything modern and liberal.

    Well, enough bloviating on my part for now, lest I become a target for Arab terrorists and their friends and allies on the liberal-progressive, union thug, commie-lib/simp, useful idiot, pinko left.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    There sure is a lot of hyperbole flying around here!

    Unfortunately, the rhetoric obscures the truth that Muslims already do coexist very well with non-Muslims, and on a global basis. We have mutually beneficial common trade, we live in peace together, we do respect one another’s religions, though the media make it difficult to remember this, and we often intermarry.

    There are 1.6 billion Muslims, and if things were really as bad as several of you suggest, the situation in the world would be considerably worse.

    I have had occasion to travel and work in many Muslim countries, and I can attest that they are largely peaceful, family loving places. This is not to say that I agree with everything I see or hear from Muslims, which was the original point of the article (above) that started this, but there can be no doubt that painting 1.6 billion people with the same brush, or even the 300 million people of the Arab world, is really unfair and going over the top.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Dear Mr. Connover,

    Unfortunately, I must respectfully beg to differ with you. I maintain you are charmed and deceived by your own personal observation, which of course is legitimate. I truly do not doubt you, your personal insights. But this silent spring of darkness truly runs deep and is always present; if only one should dig hard and deep enough, I assure you it will easily and readily be found.

    Moreover there is a high degree of inscrutability within the Muslim world and I am sorry to say that if you think the vast majority of Muslims are amenable to secular, enlightened and rational self interest and liberal modernity and progress; I again am sorry to say, as most Americans, you are sadly mistaken and or possibly even delusional.

    I am a Classicist by both vocation and advocation, and in my own pursuit of the life of the mind I have come into contact with Muslim history, culture and civilization if only tangentially and as a matter of intellectual curiosity. Which is to say, I am by no means an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

    But, cogito ergo ius mihi dicere est. I think (critically, analytically, rationally, logically, empirically, aesthetically and reasonably so) therefore I have the right to speak out.

    I wrote an article for Blogcritcs entitled “Why Liberals Just Adore and Defend Muslim Terrorists – To Death.” Which was published on 21 Nov. 10 in the Politics section, in which I treat this issue, this great cultural and civilizational divide somewhat tangentially. I both suggest and exhort you to give it a peek and look it over, if only cursorily.

    In which, by the way, I predicted much of the events we have witnessed in the past two months and for which I was literally pilloried from pillar to post, here at Blogcritics.

    I also maintain through my own personal experience with a mid level, but young, rising star at the CIA’s Arab Desk, in 1996; that you like he truly underestimate the power of Muslim irrationaity and of their basic intense antipathy to modernism and western civilization. He was the stepson of a close friend of mine who unfortunately was in the last throes of his fight with a lethal brain tumor. So I met this young man on several occasions while “R” was still alive and unfortunately and sadly after he passed away.

    Mind you, this occurred between Dec. of 1996 and Feb. of 1997. After the downfall of the former Soviet empire in 1991; I asked myself what now, and most importantly, what and who is the greatest threat to world peace and stability, and further human progress and the advancement of civilization here on earth.

    By that spring of ’92, after extensive research and great reflection, I came to the conclusion that Muslim and Arab terrorism was truly the greatest threat to America and the rest of the world. Well, he at first was very attentive to what I had to say, but when it came to the religious and cultural aspects of this issue, he simply dismissed these out of hand as a part of his western, intellectual bias toward that sort of irrationality; of conceding and admitting that sort of cultural and intellectual primitiveness and backwardness actually existed anywhere on this planet in this day and age of secularism and modernity.

    Again, for the umpteenth time, I am sorry to say that I think you are making the same egregious sort of error that he and the CIA and our nation made back then – and maddeningly so, appear to still be making to this very day.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Appearing here perhaps for the soon to be very last time before I am permanently banned from the Comments pages of Blogcritics.

    Are comments #50 and #52 really by Irvin F. Cohen? His tone is unrecognizable. Either there’s a Muslim imposter at play on this thread, or Irv is going out with a whimper instead of his usual roar to which we’ve become accustomed.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F Cohen

    Dear comrade Al,

    Yeah, yah got me yet another goddamn time…and yeah to be brutally honest there is an inner wimp, vile toady, sycophantic, ass-kissing, fawning, cringing MOFO in me..I call it my inner bitch, coward, pussy-whupped into submission, inner lowlife, weaselly scumbag, self, sort of worm, kind of less than manly man.

    Actually you’re right…this is not me. In fact I toyed with some really raunchy, in your f..k..g face shit, but apparently my worse angels got the better of my true persona.

    I’ll behave and I promise from here on out to take no prisoners nor to give any quarter what-so-fucking-ever. How’s that for a goddamn solemn and sacred oath? Will that suffice, please inform…or is that ‘deform?”

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Dear Irv,

    I tried to look for your article, but Blogcritics.org denies it exists. I looked both under its name and yours.

    I really don’t know what you’re talking about in the title. The title surely does not relate to me, and I know of no liberals like that.

    As you can see at the top of this page, I have written a book on the topic in 2007. I’m actually more optimistic than I was then, thanks to Wael Ghonim and Revolution 2.0. It seems to me you and I have underestimated the power of the youth bubble rising in the Muslim world. They have significantly different ideas from their parents.

    With all due respect, any ideas you have that were developed in the 1990s have been totally overcome by events in many ways.

    Best regards, Skip

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Irvin F. Cohen (#54), now that’s more like it! Thanks for reassuring me that you’re still the Irv we know and love–or loathe, as the case may be with the legions of BC editors, censors, and writers who’ve reportedly whined about you to BC’s publisher.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Skip Conover (#55), here’s the link to “Why Liberals Just Adore and Defend Moslem Terrorists – to Death.”

    The reason you couldn’t find it is because Irvin F. Cohen in #52 spelled it “Muslim” instead of “Moslem.”

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Dear Irv,

    As a fellow Marine, I’m glad I have given you an opportunity to advertise your views.

    I have to admit that I could only manage to get through the first page and a little more. I was having trouble finding a point other than just sludge. I believe strongly in the Freedom of Speech and Freedom of the Press, so I would simply suggest that you might be more convincing if you tone down the hyperbole. So far, you have persuaded me of nothing.

    I do see that I have walked into a long standing relationship among a few of you. I will do my best to avoid interfering with your repartee.

    Best regards, Skip

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    To his credit, at least Mr. Cohen provides us with sociological/philosophic rationale as to why he holds all Muslim in such contempt (#50 and #52). Contrast this with Cotto’s #48, which is but an expression of credo. Both views, however, are xenophobic and the product of Judeo-Christian culture coupled with the idea of Anglo-Saxon, white man supremacy taken to extreme, not all that different from the idea of Aryan supremacy entertained by Hitler & company.

    Granted that socioeconomic and cultural factors determine to a great extent the kinds of people a culture produces in general or at large, but to leave matters at that, to make it the end of the argument, moreover, to regard any group of people, for whatever reason, as a subspecies is abominable and surely counter to the spirit of man. Dehumanizing others, thinking of them as mere cockroaches, is the surest way to perdition and the kind of atrocities which were witnessed by the past generation. I sure hope the individuals who express such views are doing so only for polemical reasons, for shock effect only, rather than sharing with us their innermost thoughts and fears. Engaging in a politics of fear, though despicable, can be forgiven if one’s got a political agenda. Doing so out of one’s inner conviction cannot.

    We hear about the terrorist threat against America and the West since 9/11, and given that limited perspective, some of it may be justifiable. But it’s proper at this time to raise the ante. Cohen and Cotto, the two brothers in crime, pose a greater threat again all humanity and human civilization, by far an overriding concern in the greater scheme of things, than all the suicide bombers past and yet to come.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Dear Skip,

    Semper fi and I say that rather begrudgingly and reluctantly. I also assume that you were a commissioned officer, because only a commissioned officer from a prestigious, elitist, eastern college/university could be that fucking condescending and patronizing as you are.

    “As a fellow Marine, I’m glad I have given you the opportunity to advertise your views.”

    Advertise? Again, how smarmy and snide, and fucking condescending thou be!

    “…sludge…”

    I see, I simply write sludge in your estimation. Again, a rather patronizing and condescending personal attack. But there’s more.

    “I believe strongly in the Freedom of speech…bullshit, snide, smarmy, and even more condescending, fucking bullshit…”

    On this last point of yours, I must however, both apologize and thank you for your personally allowing me my inalienable human and civil right of freedom of speech. That is so fucking kind and overwhelmingly tolerant and open-minded of you, again, to allow me my inalienable right of freedom of speech. You really are a big-hearted fucking sort of guy.

    “…I know of no liberals like that.”

    Alright, let me clarify what liberals I precisely am talking about. I’m speaking of the liberal-leftist spectrum of those who can reasonably be described and categorized as liberal-progressive qua liberal-socialist qua socialist qua communist qua full blown Marxist qua Neo, New Age, “Greenie” and anarchist Marxists. Now if you don’t know any of these liberal lefty pinkos, such as the aforementioned, well then, I can’t help you on that one. However, I must ask you the rather simple question – what fucking Cloud-cuckooland planet have you been living on for the past two plus score years?

    Again, Semper Fi and have a nice fucking day, you fucking jackwad. And a fucking harrumph, harrumph to boot.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    Sergeant Cohen, your instincts are uncanny. As you surmised, Skip Conover was indeed educated at “a prestigious, elitist, eastern college/university.” B.A. from Hamilton College in Clinton, N.Y., 40% of whose student body matriculates from private schools. MBA from William E. Simon Graduate School of Business, University of Rochester. JD from State University of N.Y. at Buffalo, Law School.

    You’re also right about his rank. Lieutenant Colonel, USMC. Sarge, you can really sniff these guys out on the slightest whiff. Most impressive.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Dear comrade Roger, still the not so artful dodger,

    What a fucking left-handed, back-stabbing defense of me! Geez, with defenders like you, who the fuck needs enemies?

    I see: I am a xenophobic, Nazi, Aryan nation, dehumanizer of non-white, I presume, non-Judeo Christian, third world denizens of this world and I’m far worse than any Muslim terrorists who actually kill tens of thousands of real people in the real world. But of course in your mind’s eye, in your theoretical world of Cloud-Cuckooland bullshit, I am theoretically and metaphorically guilty as sin, as in all hell.

    Roger, I got to hand it to you, cause you never fail to amaze me. Furthermore I view you as the perfect. quintessential embodiment of the Greek Potential Optative. The Greeks indeed invented, deep intellectual and philosophic bullshit. But they did not stop there, it just wasn’t enough for them to make mind-numbing statements contrary to fact and a whole bunch of bullshit could have, should have, would haves.

    No, the Greeks created a special “mood” for bullshit; but that too was not enough for them, because they loved bullshit so very much, they created its own special conjugation; and voilà they gave birth to the Potential Optative, a masterpiece of pure intellectual bullshit without equal.

    Of course, until you came on the scene becaus your intellectual bullshit is like no other, cause yours is really the smelliest, rankest, most opaque and arcane and esoteric and difficult to understand, unfathomable bullshit piled ever so high and deep in the annals of recorded history and of all civilization as we know it. What a great, crowning achievement, thou truly are the greatest bullshit artist of our generation. Wait a minute, don’t let it get to your head cause you do have competition. Yeah, I think, in me ‘umble estee-mation, that doctaj dreary is a very close second place if not winning full of shit, bullshit artist extraordinaire. Wadda yah think? Can you make a case fer yerself?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Never mind the BS, Irv. You know you’re wrong and we’re not going to argue about it.

    As to Kurtz, I expect him to second you, whatever you say, since he’s got no mind of his own and no original idea in his head. Besides, he’s quickly running out of allies. So don’t be considering now his show of support as any kind of validation of your own views. I’m well aware you’re beyond such silliness as the counting of noses … just sayin’. In short, you’re entirely on your own, and you know it.

    Sweet dreams.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Thank you all for keeping this discussion going! I’m really comfortable with letting other readers make their own judgment without further comment from me at this point.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an roger nowosielski

    Sorry, Alan, you’ve dug your own grave. Wish it weren’t so.

  • http://subversivetv.blogspot.com/ Alan Kurtz

    You should check your email, Roger. There’s something there that will please you immensely.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Just a few comments for you all. I’m kinda tired. If I have a question about Catholicism, say, and I don’t know, I tend to ask a Catholic. And when I don’t comprehend what an Arab thinks, I tend to ask an Arab. When I want to understand Islam, I talk to a Muslim scholar.

    Since I have a lowly BA from the City University of New York (you know, where all those stupid blacks, Puerto Ricans and Jews go), I figure it is the smart thing to ask the person in person when I want to know about something. Applied here, if I want to understand how an non-com Marine understands things, I’ll ask Sgt. Cohen and if I want to know how an officer thinks, I’ll ask Lt. Col. Conover.

    In my conversations with a “Palestinian” Arab whom I respect immensely, I am given to understand that Jews and Arabs will not live in peace together until there is a mode of expression for Palestinian nationalism – IN JORDAN. In addition, I learn that the latest Hashemite on the throne there is a rich royal prick who is far more anti-western than his daddy was, who is slowly stripping “Palestinians” of their citizenship in an attempt to expel them from what is, after all, Palestine. It is from this Arab scholar that I understand that the best guarantor for peace is a good fence – the Jordan River – with Palestine on the eastern side, and Israel on the western side.

    Comprendes tu, Glenn?

    From an Arab legal scholar, I learn that the Qur’an (Chapter of the Cow) guarantees my right as a Jew and Child of Israel to live in the Land of Israel – and that the Wahhabi heretics who say otherwise are full of shit. In their brains as well as their buttholes.

    Because I live with Muslims – lots of Muslims – I can agree with Skip Conover that they are mostly a peaceful lot – until incited by Euroscum and Ameriscum (as in leftist shits and anarchists) to violence.

    Because I live with Jews – lots of Jews – I comprehend the dislike and contempt they have for the American and European governments who constantly try to fuck us over in Israel. It is a contempt I share.

    But what I understand most clearly is that we do not need outsiders to solve our problems for us. We are all Semites here, and we all understand each other very well – even if we may happen to hate each others guts.

    I raise the issue of the slaughter in Itamar so it is clear to you what murderousness Wahhabi influence brings, and why it will be necessary to take actions that will go counter to “western interests” for our own survival as sons of Abraham.

    Since your government in America-land will not do the things needed to improve the situation in the Middle East, better that you guys just stay the hell out. We’ll muddle through without your help.

    Finally, Mr. Costello. I don’t feel grief over the deaths of Rav Fogel and his family, z”l. I feel anger. I want to see vengeance exacted, and I want to see their killers hang – but in addition, I want to see those who enabled them to commit mass murder and attempted genocide hang as well.

    Good evening.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F Cohen

    Dear Ruvy,

    No, I’m not a Rabbinic Scholar nor an Islamic Scholar, but do I really need to be such in order to understand my fellow man and look into his mind and soul? Or to evaluate his true character and nature? I read and listen to them and other voices just as you do, perhaps admittedly not as assiduously as I should or ought.

    But again: Cogito ergo ius mihi dicere est. I think (critically, analytically, logically, rationally, empirically, scientifically, etc., ad infinitum) therefore I have the right to speak out.

    Moreover, those assassins, those murderers who committed those heinous crimes against the Fogel family – are not victims! They are barbarians, they are vile, detestable serpents who must be brought to justice and punished condignly with capital punishment – nothing less will do. So on that point we’re in agreement. We are also in agreement that those who preach this sort of barbarism on religious and or political grounds, must also be punished.

    One last point, you make my case for me when you say “…until incited by Euroscum and Ameriscum (as in leftist shits and anarchists) to violence.” My exact import of the Amercan liberal-left in my comments here, and in my rather prescient article four months ago, “Why Liberals Just Adore etc., etc.,on 21 Nov. 10.

    So I understand your righteous indignation, but do not be too quick to paint us all with the same broad brush of your legitimate, righteous anger and frustration – but know this and know it quite well, that many of us are on the same page and same side as you.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an Alan Kurtz II

    This is Roger Nowosielski, temporarily posting under different handle in support of Mr. Kurtz. In spite of his bedside manners, Mr. Kurtz is performing an invaluable service in puncturing the overinflated egos of many members of the BC community. It would be a shame to see him booted out merely for bringing many our imperfections to light, including those of yours truly. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Kurtz is not given to using cuss words or similar such language. Speaking for myself, I have never found him offensive.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    RE your # 69,

    Just wondering…but do you me?

  • LynnfromBC

    First I want to say thank you for the article on Jordan Ruvy. I watched the Crown Prince of Jordan peddling the King’s new book on Jon Stewart about two weeks ago. He made it sound like Jordan was the only true democracy surrounded by dictators. That article was a fresh insight into the situation.

    Here is an article from Israel citing Netanyahu wanting the Jihadist parts of the Koran expunged over the Rabbi Fogel and his family’s death. It was a moving piece and he got his point across, especially toward the international community. Although it may have been posted here earlier.

    I think it is important also for people to understand that most people are not here for a job interview and are therefore not required to give out their life histories in order to have an opinion about things. Some people have lived through things that give them unique insight, while others have only read about it. Most veterans I know of don’t want to talk about the wars they have fought, but they do want us to know what they thought of the reasons they were there in the first place. However,nothing new will be learned if we shut people and their opinions out just because we think black and white about something and they think in a more grey manner. Nothing more will be heard about atrocities around the world if we are not given the acknowledgement of having a voice.

    Jihadist terrorism has to be stopped along with every other kind of terrorism, in the world. This article was very interesting to me because it pointed out a fact that most people do not understand about this specific group, in the US and that would extend to Canada as well. Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal are all major cities here that experience considerable hate fueled violence that often culminates in drive-by shootings, gang wars, and honor killings, just to name a few issues the press manages to get out. a lot of the violence that is brought over here is suppressed by the media because these cities are major tourist attractions. Right or wrong, economics plays a role. We don’t, however, kill the messenger when they deliver.

    Thanks for listening and goodnight.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an Alan Kurtz II

    What have you got to do with it, Irv? Are we running a popularity contest?

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Wel actually Raj, I am running a popularity contest of a sort; that is if you consider, who is the most detested, loathed, despised, hated and most likely to be banned outright from these environs – not just from the comments pages, but from writing articles and having them published on this website as well.

    Otherwise, no, not at all.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    I favor Freedom of Speech myself.

    Here’s a conundrum. Above I have been called a socialist, commie, pinko, while in another venue from the same article I have been called a Nazi by a Muslim. I guess that puts me squarely in the middle, where I’ve always considered myself anyway, but it does raise the question in my mind: How do we get out of this and leave a peaceful world for our grandchildren?

    The Tsunami I mention in my book title is real, and it has nothing to do with Japan except for the metaphor.

    Best regards, Skip

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Hey listen up there Skipper, or should that be with all due respect, at ease as in restez calme pour un moment.

    I thought you said you weren’t gonna comment no mo. But dear Colonel in the actual civilian-puke, non-hacking, maggot, worm, scumbag real world, you are allowed to change your goddamn mind. And oh by the way, I now outrank you. Yeah, that’s right, you know why? Because I am now a PFC which is an acronym for Private Fucking Civilian.

    Now as to your predicament, your conundrum so to speak: either both of us are wrong, or one or the other is wrong. And vice versa, both or one or the other is right. Yeah, I’d say that’s a problem.

  • http://archetypeinaction.org Skip Conover

    Irv. I didn’t mean forever. Actually, we’re both right in some respects and wrong in others. That’s true of the Muslims too. How do we find common ground?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Listen to this podcast and see if it doesn’t sound like someone you have read before. Believe me, hundreds of thousands of us, if not millions of us think as this man does, and want you and all the Eurotrash gone. We will muddle along happily without you.

  • El Bicho

    “In spite of his bedside manners, Mr. Kurtz is performing an invaluable service in puncturing the overinflated egos of many members of the BC community.”

    What a load of bunk. He insulted a writer who chose to use his weekly music column to write about Phil Collins retirement because someone else had written about the same subject. The problem is Kurtz’ ego is one of the most overinflated ever to visit the site.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an Alan Kurtz II

    No question about that. But do you make it a habit to complain to the upper management about Kurtz just because you’re unable to deal with Kurtz mano a mano?

    Just asking.

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Wait a minute, what about me, what about my overweening, inflated, super narcissistic, obnoxious, bombastic, prolix and verbose, condescending and insulting, super insensitive, Thesaurus driven, super egotistical ego?! Do I not take myself too seriously, do I not have an excessively distorted opinion of myself? You fucking hairball!

    Wait a minute, come to think of it, that’s not entirely me; the prolix and overly verbose, bombastic persona, that’s me [edited].

    This guy’s a fucking college professor? Go figure, well actually that fits him to a tee. Where else on this planet of ours, could you pay real dollars, lots and lots of ‘em, for so much bullshit and indecipherable and unfathomable intellectual masturbation?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an Alan Kurtz II

    What are you complaining about now? That you’re not the center of attention? Don’t you worry about it, Irv. When your time will come, I’ll stand up for you, posthumously. But for the time being at least, Mr. Kurtz needs our support. So can you possibly rise above your own overinflated ego and forget number one?

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F Cohen

    Well actually Raj, it ain’t about me, it’s about number two. Can’t be anymore cryptic about it than that otherwise I too will be (deleted – due to editorially, politically incorrect improper aspersions to – deleted – powers that be).

    Now what dah yah mean I ain’t the center of attention? Wait a sec, I think I have a tantrum coming on. Waaah, waah, waaah, wadda yah mean I ain’t the center of attraction, waaah, waaah, waaah! I want, I want, I want. Vizz-shtay-a-vooh?

  • El Bicho

    “But do you make it a habit to complain to the upper management about Kurtz just because you’re unable to deal with Kurtz mano a mano?”

    That’s rich. When have I been unable to handle Kurtz? Besides, he’s the one usually running to management to complain. Now, I see he has removed his name from his profile. That’ll show everyone

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Looks like thar’s rebellion a-brewin’. ‘n mehbee bloody insurrection tah boot. ‘n mehbee bloodier internecine back-stabbing and cuttin’ o’ throats.

    Or as ole Shakey once said:

    “Double, double toil and trouble,
    Fire burn and cauldron bubble.”

    And:

    “By the pricking of my thumbs,
    Something wicked this way comes.”

  • http://www.carminasaturaqueamericana.com Irvin F. Cohen

    Correction for the sake of both meter and rhyme (and euphony too): Add the word “too” to the end of the first P so that it reads “…and cuttin’ o’ throats TOO.” Lower case of course, I used caps here solely for emphasis and to highlight the additional word “too”.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/an Roger Nowosielski

    Wssn’t accusing you, LB, but some of the editors and other BC participants have done precisely that. Besides, Kurtz’ complaints were against the management or parts of the management team, not against BC members at large.