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Who Among Us Has The Right To Rewrite Religion, History Or Science?

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Recent events in Iran concerning attempts to assert that the Nazi Holocaust was a hoax have awakened me to what might be the tiny seedlings of an educational and cultural crisis in our country. Intentional misinformation on everything from the moon landing in 1969, world ecology/global warming, basic world history, astronomy, and AIDS are all beginning to take footholds in world culture.

While the vast majority of Americans are intelligent enough to know better, more and more disinformation is being disseminated (and in some cases believed) as fact to an entire generation of Americans. In the age of the Internet this irresponsible disinformation is spreading like wildfire.

Politicians and religious leaders worldwide are beginning to take liberties with, and in some cases attempting to completely rewrite, common knowledge. Once solid scientific and historical facts are now being irresponsibly branded “theories”, or worse, out and out lies.

This is nothing new; religion has opposed science for centuries.

As far back as the 1700s in American history, there are similar religious zealots who branded all science as evil and a contradiction to biblical teachings. Damage from lightning storms was a dangerous problem in colonial days. The tallest buildings in a town were the most vulnerable. Since the structures had very little metal, they’d usually explode when hit, causing fires that spread to other buildings, threatening whole settlements.

What were the highest spires in those days? Church steeples. To curb the problem, Benjamin Franklin invented the lightning rod, a device that would channel the bolt of electricity harmlessly to the ground. Fanatical Christians began protesting and demanding they be removed from steeples because use of the strange devices was seen as mankind defying God’s will. In other words it was better to condemn something you don’t understand (Franklin’s electrical theory), even if it meant sacrificing your own house of worship. Some preachers even went so far as to blame Franklin for causing an earthquake with his evil invention in 1755!

Southern white children in the late 1800s never stopped referring to Negroes as “niggers” and were taught to think of them as inferior intellectually and nothing more than common farm animals to be owned and traded. Those beliefs were handed down from generation to generation, and only in the last fifty years or so has the American culture in general rejected such opinions. These notions were so ingrained in the southern mindset that laws had to be passed in the early 1960s in order to protect the rights of black Americans to vote, work, and have good housing.

One of the most horrific examples of dangerous opinions being taught as fact is when Nazi children were taught by their parents to hate Jews. They learned that Jews are stingy, speak in strange tongues, hoard money and never return anything to society. Hitler was merely performing God’s holy judgment upon them for the crime of crucifying Christ, and it was completely justified that they be rounded up and executed.

German children were also held to the criteria of racial purity and all who didn’t meet it were judged inferior. Never mind that nearly none of the Nazi hierarchy matched their own descriptions of what the “master race” should look like.

The AIDS epidemic in the U.S. in the early 1980s went almost completely unchecked because normally responsible and knowledgeable people told the public that it only struck homosexuals and the general straight population was safe. Many Americans believed people like Anita Bryant and Jerry Falwell, who taught that God had brought his judgment down on the sinning heathens.

These zealots branded anyone who contradicted their prejudices as un-Christian. Rather than speak out against these hate-mongers, scientists and medical scholars who knew better would let hundreds of thousands of people become needlessly infected because they believed they were immune. People like Falwell, Pat Robertson and their like have no conscience towards the resulting victims. The only way to get the disease is to have sex in a way that conflicts with God’s moral teachings. President Ronald Reagan also used the religious Right's hate speech as an excuse to delay an initiative to get AIDS under control until it was far too late.

Falwell would go on to prove his intelligence when he attempted to declare and condemn several fictional children’s characters as dangerous. He proclaimed that SpongeBob and Tinky Winky were promoting homosexuality or were gay themselves and part of a plot to influence young children’s minds towards perversion.

Currently there are people in the public eye who would irresponsibly have you believe that history is not true as it was written. Fortunately the American public hasn’t been swayed by such outrageous claims, and most of these ideas fall into the category of the bizarre, such as the claim that President Kennedy wasn’t killed in 1963 and lived in a rest home for years afterward.

Some of the more telling examples:

Man Has Never Landed on the Moon

On the surface of the moon at Tranquility Base is a carefully aimed reflector array about the size of a suitcase. Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin left this instrument there in 1969. The 3.5-meter Apache Point telescope bounces a precisely aimed laser off of that array to periodically measure the exact distance between the Earth and the Moon. There are three such reflectors currently on the lunar face, left by Apollo missions 11, 14 and 15. It is an easily verified fact that they are there and that Earthmen put them there.

However a growing (though small) percentage of people actually believe today that the moon landings were faked on a movie set in “Area 51”. Religious zealots preach that God never meant man to leave his Earth — if he had, it would have been foretold in the Bible. The moon landings brought back scientific proof that many theological theories of how the Earth and universe were formed and their presumed ages were wrong. The only way to discount the heretical science facts learned from such moon trips would be to assert that the lunar journeys had been faked and by doing so their resulting science would justifiably be discarded in favor of biblical teachings.

Inconsistencies are pointed to as proof, such as some photos not having stars in the background. Of course that is ignoring the fact that any group intelligent enough to falsify and fund such an event would be smart enough to remember to paint stars in the photos. The quite literally glaring fact is that late '60s photo techniques would necessitate the film exposure be dictated by the bright unhindered sunlight reflected off the astronaut’s white spacesuits, the white landing vehicle and even the brilliant lunar surface itself. The fast shutter speed would logically prevent any comparatively dim stars from showing up on the film at all.

They claim that the American flag wouldn’t be fluttering in the breeze on the moon. It wouldn’t be fluttering in the breeze of an enclosed movie studio either. Crumple up a piece of paper and set it down on the table in front of you, then watch it move on its own. Anything folded has stored energy, even a folded flag in space. The flexible aluminum pole being adjusted caused movement. In the frictionless vacuum of space there would be nothing to stop it from repeatedly moving back and forth once it started, like a tool lost in a space walk that is still orbiting thousands of miles an hour to this day.

How could photographic shadows be coming from different directions? Sunlight glare reflecting off the white orbiter and even their space suits comes immediately to mind.

Of the dozen men who walked on the moon, several are still alive, yet none has ever confided in anyone that it was faked — a secret that should be impossible to keep. These men also brought back 841 pounds of rock from the surface with properties that are impossible to duplicate on earth.

Evolution Is Only A Theory

As reported by the Washington Post, President Bush has been quoted as saying that intelligent design should be taught in public schools and that evolution should be taught as only a theory.

He’s not alone.

In a 1925 courtroom, a self-righteous man laughed sarcastically and asserted that you only have to look at an ape to see that man couldn’t possibly have come from one. If you were able to go back in time and present that same man with a photo of a stem cell he would laugh equally as loud and hard in your face. It would be impossible for such a thing to ever turn into a human being or any part of one. He’d righteously declare you an evil, lying heretic for saying such a thing. However if that same man were to come with you forward in time to today, he’d hypocritically be calling the killing of that very same cell the murder of a human life.

History and science prove that even today man is evolving. Compare yourself to your great-great-grandfather, and you’d find that you live longer, and you are taller, stronger and healthier. The process of interjecting genes into your family history may even find that you’re of a different race as your own forefathers. That’s evolution. When weaknesses are bred out of a species so it can better adapt to its changing environment — that’s evolution. Even though it’s an undeniable fact, it is currently being taught in some places as just a theory in public schools across the United States, resulting in several lawsuits.

Moses, John the Baptist, King James and George Washington would probably die within days if they were brought forward in time, because man has evolved in order to tolerate diseases such as measles and smallpox that easily killed our forbears. As recently as seventy years ago it was possible for thousands of people to die in a flu epidemic. Our cherished forefathers wouldn’t have the ability to tolerate the amount of hydrocarbons and pollutants in our atmosphere against which our bodies have built up a resistance.

Just as any species of animal adapts to its environment through evolution, so have we. Polar bears, through natural selection, are white to blend in defensively to their surroundings, just as black bears did. Reptiles that lose their water habitats through changing seasons adapt by being able to live out of the water as well as in.

The very same people that can readily accept radically different breeds of dogs in all shapes colors and sizes can’t accept that Man, chimpanzees and gorillas all come from the same species. It would be easier to believe that a man was swallowed by a whale and lived to tell about it, or a woman was turned into a pillar of salt.

Strict adherence to religion means that anything not spelled out in the bible or whichever text is worshipped is wrong. That means flatly ignoring the advanced age that such biblical people as Noah (602 by some accounts) were said to live to, in order to claim that mankind is exactly the same animal as God created him, starting with Adam and Eve.

It is asserted that astronomers are wrong in teaching that stars can be millions of light years away, because the religious texts written thousands of years ago say that the universe is only mere thousands of years old. Religious leaders are beginning to assert the ridiculous as fact. Nothing existed before God created the universe mere thousands of years ago. It is more acceptable to say that trillions of eons passed of empty nothing, until the almighty decided one day to create the universe and everything in it about ten thousand years ago.

Creation scientists actually refute carbon-dating techniques as fraudulent methods by anti-Christians in order to falsify Biblical claims of the age of the universe. Fossils of dinosaurs and ape-like cavemen were created by god and planted where we could find them to test our faith, but according to many preachers they never really existed.

The Nazi Holocaust Never Happened

Tens of thousands of allied soldiers witnessed with their own eyes the horrors of the Nazi death camps. After the Axis powers fell, the German people were forced to parade past piles of naked emaciated corpses stacked like cord wood waiting to be burned or buried in mass graves. Thousands more saw the heaps and piles in storerooms of the confiscated belongings, gold teeth, even hair shaved from their heads to make pillow stuffing in warehouse after warehouse.

Millions have seen and visited the remnants of the death camps. Humankind’s guilt at the horrors visited on the Jews and others is the justification for the creation of the nation of Israel. Nowadays those likeminded of the Nazis need another justification for killing off the remaining inhabitants of the Jewish faith in the Middle East.

In order to accomplish their goals however, history itself must be blatantly denied in order to justify exterminating the rest of the Jewish faith and all of its followers. It would also mean claiming that any records of the war crimes committed on them were falsified, an easy task now that the actual witnesses to the horrors have mostly died off and can’t refute claims that they were misled.

Despite there actually being more undeniable evidence of what happened to the Jews in Nazi death camps than there is of any single event written in the bible or Islamic texts, many middle eastern leaders loudly preach that it didn’t happen. By denying the justification for modern-day Israel ever being created, you destroy their right to exist in the region and indeed as a race or at all.

It would be a simple task to find some carefully selected “specialists” to claim that sixty years after the fact, no remnants of cyanide can be found in the open and weathered cremation ovens. That being the case, they couldn’t possibly have been used as death chambers. They point to the torn-down gas chambers and claim that they couldn’t have been sealed enough to gas their victims without fresh air leaking in or poison gas leaking out. They claim that since there were no autopsies done on the Jewish, gypsy or homosexual bodies, it can’t be conclusively proven that they were murdered.

In the face of the fact that the death camps did actually physically exist, it is now being claimed in the Middle East that the Jews all died of sickness and starvation, not murder. It is being broadcast today in the 21st century that in the 1940s it was possible to convincingly fake thousands of photos of hundreds of thousands of bodies and that hundreds of thousands of ordinary people were persuaded to lie in order to justify setting up a Jewish homeland on a sacred piece of land in the Islamic world. Therefore Zionists all deserve to be killed and their presence erased forever from Allah’s holy territory.

The tragedy is that these false teachings are reaching children in the United States and increasingly being accepted as fact worldwide.

Tell a lie long enough and it becomes truth.

If science and history are only subject areas that fly in the face of God’s spokesmen’s teachings, is it any wonder that the United States is falling behind in medical and scientific research? All because new discoveries in those fields are branded as acts against God’s will?

It is my opinion that if we don’t take back control, sooner or later our country is going to be swept in reverse to the strict morals and stagnation of the Victorian Age. Women will once again be servants to their husbands. A sort of Christian Taliban would be established. Death due to disease and natural disaster will be declared an act of God’s will and not opposed or acted upon by modern methods for fear of divine retribution.

While countries such as North and South Korea, China, and India are currently making great strides in medicine, stem cell research, computer and electronic technology, the U.S. is being held back by religious fundamentalists who scream their outrage and wave their bibles at anything they can’t use “God” to control. College students are heading to India and China to get hands-on experience and jobs in advanced electronics because none of it is manufactured here in America any more!

Bold attempts have even been made at rewriting the history in the United States to the point of making the Constitution and Declaration of Independence religious texts instead of political ones. Some even claim that God sent George Washington down to save our country from the wicked.

Recently more and more politicians and priests are asserting that our school children should be taught not to believe scientific and historical texts because they are only theories and not Bible-proven facts.

Dare I say God help us all if we don’t find a way to reverse this trend?

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About Jet Gardner

I like collecting books, music, movies, chess sets and friends
  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I just had surgery on my eyes so I might not be able to answer your commnts as timely as I’d like, but trust me I’ll get to them…

    Jet

  • Baronius

    Jet, wow, so much to talk about!

    I understand that you have your nemeses, but you just can’t stretch conservative Christianity to include the “fake moon landing” crowd. There is a whole conspiracy subculture, and while some Christians buy into some conspiracy theories, the mainstream (heh) of the X-Filers is scientific. The UFO nuts tend to be atheists, or believe that what we call religion is just a misinterpretation of alien encounters.

    You’re completely, completely right about the evil of the Holocaust and the Holocaust-deniers. I only wish that it was just a Middle Eastern phenomenon. I admire Germany’s willingness to admit to its history. Turkey still denies the Armenian genocide.

    More later. (I really hope this article catches on.)

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks Baronius, I appreciate your thoughts, however I have seen more than a few TV preachers lately try to deny the science of the moon landings because the moon can’t possibly be as old as science clamis it is and still be within theolobical teachings. Even the fox network aired a movie on the subject claiming the moon landing was faked.

    It’s not just the religious zealots, it’s politicians too.

    I was inspired by the Iran denials, but it goes a lot deeper,

    thanks again for contributing to the conversation my friend.

    Jet

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Oh boy, another science vs. religion article! Only thing left to do is weigh odds on how many comments this one will go. We’d normally set the bar at 125, but this is a Jet article, so the parlay is 205½.

    Place yer bets!

  • D’oh

    Excellent article Jet, informative and timely.

    Since Bennet isn’t around any longer posting sci-articles, it appears BC has missed this article about the findings of some comet samples from Project Stardust.

    One excerpt I really like is…
    “The organic material, which is older than the solar system, could reveal clues about the origin of life and whether it exists elsewhere in the universe. Because there was some sort of mechanism that spread matter from the inner solar system to the outermost area where comets were formed, the same stuff must have been sprinkled on all the other comets and planets in the solar system.

    “So if you need some magic ingredient, some pixie dust to get life to pop up somewhere, we have a mechanism to sprinkle it around,” Brownlee said.

    Whatever the mechanism, it is likely a universal process that predates the solar system, so the same kind of thing may have happened in every other solar system in the universe, Sandford said.

    “There’s nothing unique about our solar system in this regard,” Sandford said.”

    Read it twice, and let it sink in, strange and wonderous times are upon us, and not in the fictional “Left Behind” kind of way.

    Keep up the good stuff, Jet. All the best hopes for a speedy recovery from surgery.

    Suss, I say the thread breaks 250.

  • Abstruse

    “Compare yourself to your great-great-grandfather, and you’d find that you live longer, and you are taller, stronger and healthier.”

    Not evolution, but a result of a better diet and access to medical care unavailable to him.

    “While countries such as North and South Korea . . . . currently making great strides in medicine, stem cell research, computer and electronic technology”

    North Korea? A country where people resort to cannibalism due to food shortages cant honestly be called a pioneer in medical research. North Korea has an official philosophy of advocating nationial self reliance (or juche) and therefore still relies on “traditional” remedies like the consumption of dog penis as a cure for impotence. The stem-cell breakthrough in SOUTH Korea was revealed to be a hoax. North Korea’s great strides in technology have been the ingenuity they muster to ignore the copyrights of myriad products.

  • Baronius

    Jet, I don’t think I’m asking for too much here. I’ll admit that there are crazies who think they’re following God. Please admit that some people believe in nutty things in the name of science.

    UFO’s, crop circles, cattle mutilations, telepathy, Gaia, healing herbs that the AMA doesn’t want you to know about, Bigfoot, pyramid power, Area 51, Diebold, “the real reason they had to silence Kennedy”, harmonic convergence: does any of this ring a bell? These are the theories put forward by secular nuts. If Christianity has to take the hit for some loon denying the moon landing, you’ve got to stand for these people.

    I believe that we’re so afraid of offending people (right left and center) that we don’t stand up for the truth. No one says “you’re wrong” anymore, except on the internet, where no one says anything else. Of course, you and I don’t agree on what the truth is. Still, I’d rather see kids taught evolutionary theory as fact, if students were taught that truth is different from error. Darwin’s got maybe 20 years left anyway.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Matthew, Matt, Mattie, It’s getting so hard (forgive the pun) for you to hide your love for me isn’t it?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks for your words D’oh, and the encouragement. I’m now a guinea pig for a new eye drug only 6 months out of the FDA. They only want to try it on one eye at a time and it’s so new that 6 doctors crowded into the room because they’d never seen it administered before.

    We’ll see (I hope)

    I like your way of thinking and I’ll have to do a little research now.

    Thanks again
    Jet

    PS. I think Sussy’s jealous. I take the time to respond to my readers, comment count is secondary, I pay attention to the right sidebar under the heading “Most Readers”.

  • Abstruse

    “UFO’s, crop circles, cattle mutilations, telepathy, Gaia, healing herbs that the AMA doesn’t want you to know about, Bigfoot, pyramid power, Area 51, Diebold, “the real reason they had to silence Kennedy”, harmonic convergence: does any of this ring a bell? These are the theories put forward by secular nuts.”

    And you and the rest of the ecumenical religous supremacists are free to rewrite these as often and as much as you wish. When it comes to science however can we agree to keep supernatural causation shelved?

    Please do tell, why does darwinian evolution by natural selection only have about 20 years left?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Abstruse, I’m so glad you took the time to leave a word or two on how much you loved the article. You’re sweet.

    Point of order, you can’t get taller than your father due to better medical care.

    As for North and South Korea, at least they’re DOING something instead of sitting on their hands. True or false, great medical strides are being made outside of the U.S. not in it.

    The mention of the Koreas was more toward their electronics, which is where most TVs are made today. When did the last se a “made in the USA” sticker on a TV, Stereo, I pod etc?

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    “I take have the time to respond to my readers”

    Fixed that for ya’.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Baronius, I will give you an absofuckinlootly on that. However I’m not talking about loonies with UFOs I’m talking about a President denying medical knowledge in favor of Jerry Falwell claiming AIDS will only hurt homosexuals. I’m talking about jerks in Iran denying the holocaust happened, I’m talking about Loony preachers claiming George Washington was the Second coming of Christ sent by god to set up a theocracy in the new world.

    To shove everything else in with it cheapens the legitimate arguments, and that’s not fair.

    Like saying all gays chase little boys
    Like saying all Jews are cheap and cheats
    Like saying all blacks are thieves
    like saying all irish are drunks.

    It’s not fair and it’s not right.

    I’m sticking to established facts that are being bent to fit an agenda, not UFOs and perverts.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ah Matt you’re making it hard (whoops)for me not to feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Thanks for fixing that and for caring enough to take the time..

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Uh Mr. Sussman, now that all the flirting’s done, what did you think of the article? I KNOW I’ll regret asking.

  • Abstruse

    “Point of order, you can’t get taller than your father due to better medical care”

    Myriads of teratogens can act upon the unborn limiting the scope of fetal development. For instance alcohol can cause facial abnormalities brain defects and underweight births not to mention stunted growth. I argue that my mother not drinking during my gestation is directly connected to access of medical knowledge disseminated to the public at large. So, you CAN be taller through medical care.

    “great medical strides are being made outside of the U.S. not in it.”

    Absoloutly, the news from Europe last week was a breakthrough in cancer treament using a “ray-gun” to target unoperable growths.

    Always nice to post sources.

    And the North korea thing is just a response to my current obsession with the Kim dynasty.

  • Baronius

    Jet, I figured you were talking about Lasick or something. I didn’t realize this was a big deal. I hope you don’t mind if I keep you in my prayers. Actually, I kind of hope you do mind, and I’ll do it anyway. Pfffthhhh!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thank you Baronius, I do care, but if it’ll help, I’ll stop. I’m not anti-christian by any stretch of the imagination, but I am against corporate churches and fools putting words in God’s mouth.

    (:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Gads Abstruse, do you realize now man links are in this article alone? 20 down and 230 to go Matt!

  • Abstruse

    I was’nt being flipant. In fact I was agreeing with you. Seems you are being a lil bit combative.

  • sr

    Jet, this message will self destruct with a nuke after you read it. The world is in your hands. The village Idiot.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Abstruse I just had my 11th proceedure to save my eyesight, I was being overly defensive, not combative.

    Thanks for telling me
    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    A little hard to make an unborn joke on this subject, isn’t it sr?. Thanks for popping in and saying hello though.

    Jet

  • D’oh

    Here is another one for you , Jet.

    Just another case of reality not matching up with “official” policies.

  • MCH

    “Oh boy, another science vs. religion article! Only thing left to do is weigh odds on how many comments this one will go. We’d normally set the bar at 125, but this is a Jet article, so the parlay is 205½. Place yer bets!”
    – Matthew Sussman

    Sounds like a cat hissing.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks D’oh. My sister used to grow a huge one on the landing going up her stairs to the 2nd floor of her house.

    She got so used to it being there that she forgot it, except to water it of course. One day a cop friend came to visit her and she nearly fainted when he walked right past it without a word.

    The next week it was hanging from her overhead light in the dining room to dry.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    A question for you. Are you sure this is science versus religion? Could it be that theologians do not know their science and are talking out of their hats? Could it be that scientists do not know their theology and are farting out of their lab coats?

    I’m an optimist. I suspect that what I’ve suggested above is the truth, and that it is the big reason for the divide between two branches of wisdom, with two different approaches.

    As for the idiots who deny the holocaust, the moon landings, etc. well, the world is filled with idiots, and the internet just makes their quacking louder…

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks MCH, after remembering when he used that very line, I nearly fell out of the cahir laughing.

    I’m glad you liked the article?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, this article is about policians rewriting history to serve their own ends, it’s about unqualified religious figures revising science books, it’s about politicians mangling the word of God in order to serve their very ungodly ambitions.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    Don’t take my comments for criticism. You did a good job of journalism. I’m suggesting a way out of the quagmire of lies and deceipt.

  • duane

    Ruvy: Could it be that scientists do not know their theology and are farting out of their lab coats?

    Why should it matter whether or not scientists are versed in theology? They’re not versed in astrology, either, just to take an example.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    “Sounds like a cat hissing.”

    I suppose the charade must end.

    In truth, I desperately crave 265 e-mails notifying me of comments posted by random, stubborn, and wordy kettleheads all writing and not really listening to each other. For that will that somehow validate that my article rocks, when in fact it’s just a property of the Internet: People argue ’cause they can.

    (And it sure is easy with an alias!)

    Now MCH, I’m sure I wrote a comment 2 years ago which contradicts this comment. Go find it, boy! Go!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I never had any doubts Ruvy, sorry if it sounded that way, but thanks for telling me that.

    I honestly believe from my research that if Iran can get enough people to believe that the holocaust was all a lie, that they can whip their extreemists into believing Israel doesn’t deserve to exist.

    I knew you weren’t critisizing.
    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Suss I believe the cat remark was made on the writer’s private page and you had directed at me. I suppose I could look it up but why bother.

    Asside from cutsey remarks and flirting with me, do you have any intelligent input on the subject?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Duane it’s more about priests trying to blame Ben Franklin for an earthquake. It’s fools that have no idea what they’re talking about, trying to use their position of authority to rewrite science… or the lack of it.

    Besides no star can be more than 10,000 light years away because the universe isn’t that old, just ask Jerry Falwell.

    Thanks for entering the fray.
    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Suss, you seem to have the obsession with comments you continuously accuse me of. As I’ve stated, I’m more interested in the “most readers” column, than the most comments.

    Don’t fight the feeling babe. We’re only a few hundred miles from each other and there’s always that Motel 6 in Mansfield?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Why should it matter whether or not scientists are versed in theology?”

    Duane, some scientists might want to understand why and wherefore, instead of being satisfied by the empty theological shrug that agnosticism and atheism has to offer. Some might feel that there is more to it all than “life’s a bitch and then you die.”

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, I’m more inclined to believe that God set the process of creating the Earth and Universe in motion, knowing the eventual outcome. However, I don’t believe for a second that it happened the way some fool fictionalized it in the bible.

    sorry.

    I believe in God, I believe in a higher power, but one that works in ways we’ll never understand and in a timespan of more than mere thousands of years.

    I believe that God started the “big Bang” billions of years ago, and was probably wise enough to know the outcome, and that there would be more than one world that priests arrogantly believe was God’s perfect creation.

    If God was trying to create a companion, he would’ve and could’ve done a hell of a lot better than us.

    To believe that we were created in his image is folly, we’re too fragile and feable and too short-lived to serve his purpose, and the conversation is too one-sided, even if we were intelligent enought to carry on a converstaion with him/it/her.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    There’s also the non-scientists who deny that global warming doesn’t exist. Just campair a satelite photo of the polar ice caps from 20 years ago to todays. Just compare the average temperation from 1960 to today.

  • duane

    OK, Ruvy (#38), I’ll buy that. Science has no idea about “why?” But I believe that theology is the academic study of religious beliefs, or in more general terms, the study of man’s relationship with God (or gods). That might narrow down the scope of the search for meaning, since it presupposes the existence of gods. Maybe the entirety of metaphysics is what is you bump up against, not just theology.

    But don’t let’s quibble.

    Matthew: …random, stubborn, and wordy kettleheads all writing and not really listening to each other.

    We all listen to everyone else, but the thing is, everyone else is wrong.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet at #39. I tend to agree with much that you write. I believe, as do you, that G-d created the universe about 15 billion years ago by creating the forces that resulted in a Big Bang. Some m’kubalim say that it took 15 billion years for those forces (which they describe as a greater light interacting with a lesser light) to develop the strength to build up to the explosion known as the Big Bang. Hence we have a period of 29 to 30 billion years to stretch back the very roots of the beginning of the universe, when G-d said “let there be light.”

    Maimonides wrote a thousand years ago that the first verses in Genesis describing the creation of the universe were true in terms of providing a moral lesson, but the actual events themselves were hidden in the text, encoded.

    I strongly suspect that there is a whole lot more to all of this than the brief lines you see in the Hebrew text of the Torah. There is a theory that seems to bring the ideas together rather well, tying ancient Sumerian records to the events in the Torah, but it is yet missing a very large item of evidence before it can be seriously discussed as a theory for being an effective concordance, if you will, of science and advanced technology, ancient ideas of “religion and gods,” and the existence of a Divine Being Who makes good and evil. For that reason, I have been silent about it, hinting here and there, but really saying nothing on this magazine. This is a public forum.

    So for the moment, I’ll stand with the statement that the Torah is the Divinely created blueprint of the universe, and encoded within it is the data describing the universe in detail, and encompassing all possibility. That, of course, is a statement of belief. I also believe that much of the Torah is history, provable with archaeological evidence. Contact me off-line for more details.

    Duane at 41. The entirety of metaphysics is exactly what you bump into, not just theology. And there are a number of places where biology and physics both manage to cross the line into metaphysics…

    That is what makes it all so interesting.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, I think it would be a great idea if you were to make the effort to write up in a coherent way your theory about the ancient Sumaria and the Torah possibly being an “effective concordance, if you will, of science and advanced technology, ancient ideas of “religion and gods,” and the existence of a Divine Being Who makes good and evil”.

    I’ve been trying to get you to clarify these ideas for ages now but you still just keep dropping little hints without ever seizing the opportunity to delineate it more coherently, which is most frustrating.

    As you say, this is a public forum, so how about it?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, you asked,

    A question for you. Are you sure this is science versus religion? Could it be that theologians do not know their science and are talking out of their hats

    That’s the part of the point I was trying to make my friend. Theologians that don’t understand it, shouldn’t try to explain Science. Just as Scientists who don’t understand theology shoulcn’t try to explain it.

    It’s not “this” versus “that” it’s one trying to transform something into something else that it’s not.

    The same goes for Politicians that are trying to rewrite history for their own ends, or in Bush’s case twisting biblical teachings in order to justify his actions, or worse to bend the will of the people to his agenda, without actually believing in his heart that what he’s saying is true.

    It always seems to me that as soon as a man like Bush is backed into a corner and is too hard-headed to admit he’s wrong, he comes out swinging instead with his redundant and repetitive “God is on my side” speech.

    I’ll give him credit for at least amending it to “God is on OUR side”

    …i guess

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Duane remarked,

    We all listen to everyone else, but the thing is, everyone else is wrong

    That’s very true and profound. After all a man can’t live inside his own head constantly saying he’s wrong to himself. Therefore everything someone does no matter what society says or thinks, ir right, every thought he thinks is the right one.

    Where it becomes dangerous is when someone refuses to acknowledge that there’s more to learn than what’s in their own mind.

    … or at least I think so anyway.

    I think……
    I think I am…..
    ……..therefore I am!
    …….I think?

  • SHARK

    JET, nice article. Good stuff.

    =====

    re: Matt “Stuart Larkin” Sussman — Man, you are SO FUCKING CLEVER! Your snide, desperate little cries for attention contribute a lot to this site. Keep up the creative, original contributions!

    And thanks for reminding the readers that discussing science, politics, and metaphysics is SO MUCH LESS IMPORTANT than which gang of overweight, steriod-sucking motards will push a little ball into the end-zone this weekend. We talentless, weenie nerds need to know we can vicariously participate in sports — and you are the team captain in that regard.

    Keep rockin’, maaaaan.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Duane remarked,

    We all listen to everyone else, but the thing is, everyone else is wrong

    That’s very true and profound. After all a man can’t live inside his own head constantly saying he’s wrong to himself. Therefore everything someone does no matter what society says or thinks, ir right, every thought he thinks is the right one.

    Where it becomes dangerous is when someone refuses to acknowledge that there’s more to learn than what’s in their own mind.

    … or at least I think so anyway.

    I think……
    I think I am…..
    ……..therefore I am!
    …….I think?

  • D’oh

    Now, I know of many instances when a politico or a religionist has argued about science and all, but I am unfamiliar with any scientist worth his salt who has gotten into the god business other than to say “we don’t know”

    Which, to me, appears to be the only real and honest answer on the metaphysical front.
    Could just be me.

  • SHARK

    Ruvy: “…the Torah is the Divinely created blueprint of the universe, and encoded within it is the data describing the universe in detail, and encompassing all possibility.”

    I’m with C. Rose on this one; Ruvy, please to enlighten us.

    Thanks in advance,
    S[amateur biblical scholar/professional atheist]HARK

    =========

    re: C. Rose: “…you still just keep dropping little hints without ever seizing the opportunity to delineate it more coherently, which is most frustrating.”

    I hope this isn’t one of those esoteric, “you will learn when you are ready” things.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, What can’t I be that intelligent and lucid at three in the morning?

    You’ll note that I’ve never attacked the statement that God created the universe in 6 days. That’s because it’s a guessed timeframe on man’s point. After all what reference did he have?

    Somehow I don’t think that an eternal being such as God would have or even need a calendar. If you’ve lived since eternity began and will exist until infinity what’s + or – a few billion years?

    I’ve never trusted the Christian version of a week anyway. for instance Christians hold Sunday the first day of the week, and consider it holy because that’s the day God rested, so they consider it a “day of rest”.

    Duh?

    If the Bible teaches on the seventh day he rested, why isn’t Sunday the last day of the week instead of the first?

    As for your well written and well thought out words, you should be publishing this in a book somewhere, but until you do, I feel honored that you chose my articles to “articulate”

    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Christopher Rose, Better yet, a book co-authored by you and Ruvy debating the existance versus the lack of the existance of God or a higher being.

    It’d be wonderful to read such a text with intelligent arguments on both sides of the aisle out of mutual respect, instead of adversary.

    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thank you Shark.

    For a moment I lost my train of thought, pondering that “gang of overweight, steriod-sucking motards”

    Uh…

    Wait I’ll get it back……

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    D’oh, as I’ve said many many times, the most intelligent thing someone can ever say is “I don’t know”

    Someone who won’t admit that, is usually the dumbest one in the room…

    But enough about Bush

  • D’oh

    Jet, on just the day of the sabbath thing, all accounts say the sabbath is on saturday. It was the catholic church in it’s earliestdays that shifted it to sunday, at the whim of Constantine.

    This worthy emperor was conflating the current trend of Roman Sun worship with early christianity to make his new, state religion. “Sun”day, after all. A very common practice of early “catholic” doctrine was grabbing local customs as much as they could and incorporating it all into their new religion. Santeria does much of the same thing today.

    SHARK – if you are amateur biblical scholar, I’d hate to see what you would call the real thing, scary thoughts after reading some of the insights you and others have written here on BC in the last few years.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    My question to the forum is why can’t religious texts be taken for what they are at face value? Why do they have to be “encoded”?

    It’d seem to me you could play “find a word” with any text and discover enough letters to make up sentences to justify anything you want.

    By the same hand you can twist the meaning of words to make them say anything you want.

    Why not just take the Bible at what it is? Ancient people from different times put their thoughts into an ongoing text over a period of centuries, trying to make sense of their world and how it worked, using the only theories that they could understand.

    I’m sure 2000 years from now our science books will look just as quaint.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “I’ve been trying to get you to clarify these ideas for ages now but you still just keep dropping little hints without ever seizing the opportunity to delineate it more coherently, which is most frustrating.

    As you say, this is a public forum, so how about it?”

    Chris,

    Thank you for the offer, but one does not push ideas as science without the effective evidence, particularly on a public forum. A huge piece of evidence needed to move this theory (which is not mine, BTW) from the fringes of the debate where it sits now to an intelligent scientific theory that respectable scientists would not fall off of their chairs laughing at, is not yet there. As I told Jet, contact me off-line.

    What can be asserted with a certain amount of proof is this: there was a fellow named Abraham who had a father named TeraH. There was a Joseph who saved the Egyptian economy from famine. There was a series of plagues that destroyed Egypt for 400 years a few of generations later. There was an exodus of slaves from Egypt. This can be proven.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Let’s just hope we don’t look as foolish as the preacher that blamed evil Ben Franklin’s lightning rod for an earthquake.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks D’oh, it’s not that it’s biblically incorrect, it’s that it’s so GLARINGLY biblically incorrect.

    It’s on the line of the born-agains constantly lamenting “The lord giveth and the lord taketh away”. Since they insist that everything in the bible is litterally correct, that’s their explanation, but that’s so glaringly wrong it’s laughable.

    While it’s true that the lord did give to Job, it was the Devil that took it away to test his faith. So any bible scholar would lament “the lord giveth and Satin taketh away”. But then that wouldn’t be a Fundamentalist word for word in stone thing to say, so the idiots keep saying it the other way…

    I think just to make me cringe when I hear it.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, reconsider. Not wanting to put your thoughts down in a public forum because you don’t think they’re provable scientifically is folly. After all, by putting things out here, other’s will help you summarize what you know, and make you ponder what you don’t know.

    That’s how I larn that there uh.. stuff.

    I’ve lost count of how many of my articles have turned into text books on this or that, and I’ve learned many things from my friends here.

    Even Suss!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “It always seems to me that as soon as a man like Bush is backed into a corner and is too hard-headed to admit he’s wrong, he comes out swinging instead with his redundant and repetitive ‘God is on my side’ speech.

    I’ll give him credit for at least amending it to ‘God is on OUR side'”

    Jet, Moshe Dayan, a coward who rose to the top of the IDF beause he was cautious, had the sense to tell reporters in June 1967, when the Israeli Army was wiping their butts with the Egyptians, Syrians and Jordanians, that “no, G-d is not on our side. We hope that we are on G-d’s side.”

    Even this traitor had more class than George Bush.

    But I digress…

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Amen Ruvy, and digress all you like

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    The value of the Torah is in the encoded data. On its face, it is a saga of a very small, insignificant group of tribes in the Middle East and the code of law they were given. If that were the entire value to the Torah, I could forget about being a Jew and all the other stuff, and go back to eating bacon, egg and cheese croissants at Burger King (so I could get a fatal heart attack).

    It is the encoded data that makes the Torah valuable. The encoded data is what the Rabbinic calendar is based on, effectively giving a theoretical new moon before creation (based here on six days, not fifteen billion years) that determines the day of the week to start the calendar on. This encoded data is very likely very similar to what the Sumerians used in determining their own lunar calendar. It should be borne in mind that it is very likely that Abraham’s father was a high priest in Ur who left when the king he served died. He taught Abraham the family business. When you look at the names of the wives of TeraH’s sons, Milka (queen), and Sarah (princess), you realize that Abraham and his family were not just shemndriks who chased sheep around the field into a pen. When you bear in mind that NaHor and Abraham married their half sisters, just as did the Sumerian kings, you realize that they were following the marital customs of royalty and were likely royalty themselves.

    It is the encoded data that tells you that this dusty work on scrolls is of Divine Authorship, and not the result of combined authors fighting to put their particular versions of the Hebrew saga onto parchment.

    It is the Torah Code that had to wait for computer technology to uncover it.

  • D’oh

    Here is a link that sheds some scientific doubt on the Torah codes.

    There are other links on that page that can allow the reader to explore more fully at their leisure.

    Flimsy stuff to base a view of reality upon, but to each their own, I guess.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Ruvy, reconsider. Not wanting to put your thoughts down in a public forum because you don’t think they’re provable scientifically is folly.”

    What I do with my ideas is my business – but the ideas I’m talking about are NOT mine. They’ve been written into a series of books and have made it to the internet as well. But because of the missing evidence, the gaping hole in this man’s theory, his work has been relegated to the lala land section of the internet, where all sorts of crazies paste their own loony fantasies onto his work, which is serious and well documented.

    It’s disgusting to see and it’s humiliating. Basically, I hope for this man’s sake that the piece of evidence needed to prove his theories shows up before he dies – he is an elderly man. But not all of us are so rewarded…

  • G-man

    The author mentions several examples of natural selection, but then claims that these are proof of evolution. Any biologist will tell you that these are not the same. In the examples above, please note that people are still people, bears are still bears, viruses are still viruses, etc. Natural selection only works with existing information, it does not generate new information. And mutations are no help at all, either. Evolution is a nice story, but that’s all it is – a story to try and explain how we got here without a Creator.

    And please don’t lump all creationists with the fringe elements of society, such as holocaust deniers, flat-earthers, anti-gays, moon landing hoax believers, etc. Many are intelligent, well-trained scientists who simply interpret the evidence from a different worldview, and accept the supernatural, rather than naturalism/materialism, which is driving modern science.

  • D’oh

    I was waiting for the ID types to show up. Please show your scientific and peer reviewed evidence and data, along with experimentation notes and results, for ID?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Unfortunately intelligent and unintelligent people alike can interpret encoded date two completely different ways and both be convinced that their’s is valid.

    alas

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    C’mon kids! I wouldn’t want to disappoint Sussman!
    Comments-I need comments.

    Yes that was dumb as it sounds.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks D’oh, I appreciate the link. This isn’t about science vs religion as much as it’s about unqualified people trying to rewrite history, science and religion.

    I don’t try to put anyone’s beliefs down unless I have to.

    What ever gets you through the night without fearing the dark.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    D’oh,

    The problem with McKay and his collaborators is this. Codes in the Torah were in use long before “War & Peace” was written. As I pointed out they were used by ancient priests in Israel to verify the calendar against witnesses, and to claculate probable dates of new moons. The number the ancient Hebrews used for lunation (the average length of the moon’s cycle) is found encoded in the Torah, not in observing the stars or the moon. The ancient Hebrews were not astronomers generally, and did not contribute to any astronmical knowledge that we are aware of. But Abraham, the son of a Sumerian High Priest, was reputed to know astronomy.

    When you check the numbers used to calculate lunation, different cultures used slightly different numbers. The Hebrews, who were not astronomers, and later the Jews after them, stuck to the number they had, and it turns out that this number is closest to what is observable by NASA satellites – as opposed to the numbers used by Greeks, Babylonians and others.

    To use science to provide a watermark to prove the existence of G-d sticks in the throat of many scientists. That the Torah Codes should be valid was simply impermissable in the eyes of many of them. Thus, it was with great difficulty that Witztum Rips and Rosenberg were able to get their work published in Statistical Science at all. After McKay published his refutation, the editor of the magazine said the subject was closed.

    So much for scientific objectivity.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Through natural selection a species better adapts to its environment. It transforms itself into something different in steps in order to survive.

    That’s evolution.

    Please by all means name you “any biologist”. Just because you selfrighteously proclaim something doesn’t make it so.

    A german shepherd evolved from the wolf-they’re still both dogs.

    A man evolved from the apes, and we’re both still simians.

    An aligator is a reptile whether it’s in the water or out of it. God created Noah to live to be over 600 years old, if we didn’t evolve how is it we don’t live that long?

    Take your foot out of your mouth,
    and read your bible instead of beating it.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    G-man reminds me of a kid that Jay Leno pointed out last night. there was a published christmas list in which this little girl wrote a letter to santa and included about 200 items on her list, and then as an afterthought included at the end, “…and don’t forget Jesus is the reason for the season.”

    Talk about hypocritical parents!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I’d LOVE to meet an intelligent, well-trained scientists who simply interprets the evidence from a different worldview, and accept the supernatural, rather than naturalism/materialism, which is driving modern science.

    I bet he’s not a geologist

    I bet he graduated from Jerry Falwell’s Liberty College with honors!

    Maybe he’s even a of overweight, steriod-sucking motard?

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    Try reading from this web-site by Jerry Schroeder. His work generally notes that more and more of the universe seems to be beyond mere material. Here he speaks as a scientist, and not a religious scholar, and notes that other scientists are reluctantly coming to the same conclusion.

    As you said, it is time that people stopped beating their bibles and started reading them. There is plenty of evidence that religion and science are two differing approaches to wisdom that should be working together, and not in opposition to each other.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Scientific minds are used to working with partial evidence Ruvy, so don’t let that hold you back…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Like I said, Chris, these are not my ideas, but the life’s work of an aging man. His books can be bought and read, and much of his work has made it onto the internet. But because there is a big item missing from the his theoretical construct, an item that needs to be in evidence to give his theory solidity, his work languishes in the internet’s looney bin, with all sorts of crazies pasting their fantasies onto it.

    For me to push it here would not clear away the loonies or provide the evidence needed.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, that shouldn’t stop you from giving your take on it, and some would even say that you might be worthy of completing the work.

  • MAOZ

    Ruvy, may I humbly but fervently suggest you either provide a link, name, whatever to these ideas which are not yours — or shtok et hapeh.

    Watching someone try to do some sort of intellectual striptease here is just not a very charming adventure.

    Chag same’ach!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Good point MOAZ, especially since it’s Ruvy doing the stripping.

    Aside from that what did you think of the article?

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    I have seen Ruvy and, trust me on this, we definitely don’t want him stripping

    *SHUDDERS*

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Christopher, I don’t think I even want to know what the circumstances behind that were. (shudder)

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Not to put too fine a point on it, but this article is crap. It rambles on and one throwing in all kinds of completely disparate things, some of which have some different bases of legitimate complaint and some of which simply don’t.

    For starters, I have an answer to your titular question, “Who among us has the right to rewrite religion, history or science?.” The correct answer is: every one of us.

    Sometimes the “common knowledge” is completely wrong. What right did some young fools have to claim that the Earth is round? Everybody knows that the Earth is flat. It’s common knowledge. It’s also common knowledge that most homosexual men are pedophiles.

    Plus, a lot of this article is just your typical pure anti-religious bigotry, foisting off every belief that you consider wrong on religious people- as if somehow the moon landing conspiracy stuff was Jerry Falwell’s doing.

    Speaking of your ridiculous anti-religious bigotry, “the U.S. is being held back by religious fundamentalists who scream their outrage and wave their bibles at anything they can’t use “God” to control. College students are heading to India and China to get hands-on experience and jobs in advanced electronics because none of it is manufactured here in America any more!”

    The “being held back” stuff is just hateful hysteria, putting off your irrational emotional resentments on everyone else. Is your basis for this simply that some conservatives (and not just Christians) have some qualms about cloning and embryonic stem cells? You might not share their concerns, but this doesn’t begin to justify your sweeping drama queen rhetoric.

    And pray tell how are you blaming religious superstition for lack of US competitiveness in the manufacture of electronics? I don’t recall any religious groups protesting against any form of electronic research. That’s just dumb.

    The AIDS stuff in this article was also just dumb. Don’t blame Reagan for AIDS. It’s not like Ronnie was out in the night spreading the disease in the gay bathhouses. And it’s not like the federal government wasn’t spending any money or doing anything.

    Plus, you’re just wrong in making AIDS out to be an equal opportunity disease. In fact, AIDS is mostly spread by anal sex and sharing IV drug needles. In fact, average church going Christians who aren’t shooting IV drugs or having promiscuous unprotected anal sex have never been at much risk. It’s a damn shame that homosexuals and drug addicts face such an ugly disease, but it’s just wishful thinking flying directly in the face of facts for you pretend that it’s an equal opportunity disease.

    Ronnie was promoting neither of those risky activities. You seem to want to presume that if Reagan had just spent even more money, the AIDS epidemic wouldn’t have happen. That’s just not true.

    The biggest underlying problem with this story though is the basic premise that there’s more and more crazy theories and irrational beliefs than ever. That does not seem to be the case.

    People have ALWAYS believed a lot of dumb crap- and the internet and satellite tv has just made it a lot easier for people to refute the bad beliefs. The best antidote to bad ideas is generally exposure to better ideas. People get more exposure to dumb conspiracy theories with modern technology – and more exposure to arguments and evidence against them. Given that, the better ideas will tend to beat out the bad ones.

    The recent Iranian holocaust denial conference is a good case in point. Yes, there are some dumbasses talking anti-Semitic nonsense. That’s been around ever since WWII though. What’s different is that with the internet and numerous 24-hour news channels we have seen more disinfectant sunlight than ever shined onto the wicked people and weak arguments involved.

    In short, human belief systems SHOULD be open to re-examination and question. YOU certainly shouldn’t presume to be the arbiter of what beliefs are beyond question.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Hmmm I’m wondering just how long the remnants of cyonide would last, especially out in the weather like that, plus you have to take into account that holocaust victims were shot too… not to mention the hanus medical experiments that were performed.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh Al sweetie, I knew you were out there somewhere what took you so long?

    Not to confuse the easily confused with facts, but apparently you didn’t follow any of the links.

    Reagan is responsible for the spread of AIDS in the U.S. for not taking action to get the word out. follow the link. Al I consider you a total [personal attack censored by author] for perpetuation of the lie that aids is spread by anal sex only. it is spread by the exchange of body fluids either by sexual contact, shared needles, or birth..

    You’re also a [personal attack censored by author] for saying all gays are pedophiles, but then someone as ignorant as you I’d expect nothing less.

    You are a [personal attack censored by author] for spreading the lie that AIDS is a gay disease, when in the other 90 percent of the world it isn’t.

    But thank you for taking the time to write such an eloquent and well thought out diatribe here. I’m sure you’ve solidified many people’s opinion of your intelligence.

    mine too.

    Nowhere did I say the moon conspiracy theories were Jerry Falwell’s idea you [personal attack censored by author]. I did however say he was a complete [personal attack censored by author] for trying to whip up public outrage over ficticious children’s characters. Tinky Winky should hit you over the head with his purse and knock some sense into you… not that it’d do any good.

    Your ignorant right-wing bigotry and foolish [personal attack censored by author] makes you look like a total [personal attack censored by author]

    You have a lot of room to talk about hateful hysteria you [personal attack censored by author]. I feel sorry for [personal attack censored by author] like you.

    love
    jet

  • duane

    Al Barger makes some good points, Jet. One that I will second explicitly is the idea that the expansion of the internet has actually undermined many of the conspiracy theorists. I wish I could remember where I read this — it was a good article — but the point was that, for example, if on Wednesday someone spreads some nonsense about the US faking the Moon landing, then on Thursday there will be a flood of posts dismantling the conspiracy argument. The counter-arguments show up in a Google search just as readily as the arguments. It is more difficult for the conspiracy theorists to maintain credibility when the skeptical refutations are there in black and white.

  • D’oh

    Ruvy, it is scientific objectivity we are talking about here where it concerns the Torah codes.

    The link I gave you shows the experimentation, both for and against, and the methodology discussed was examined by the very same institution that published the original findings, and lent some credibility to the intitial results.

    So the very same institution went over the methodology and findings of the study I am talking about, and published the peer reviewed results. That IS the scientific method in action.

    In that article is another link with a very interesting bit about the flexibility of Hebrew spelling, and a mention of how this skews the probability analysis. You might want to check it out, or not.

  • nancy

    First & foremost, Jet, dear: I hope this drug restores your sight to 20/20 & then some. Secondly, I really enjoyed the article. You got quite a head of steam up, there, and some pretty spot-on points; there’ll be lots of discussion on this,I’m sure. Your usual excellent article. Finally, wish you & all on this blogsite very safe & happy holidays, whether you celebrate Christ or crop circles.

  • D’oh

    Oh yes, I almost forgot, the bit about the lunar calculations. Has it escaped your attention that the Egyptians, Mayans and Celts and Chinese all had very accurate lunar calendars in the time you mention?

    Your assertion that said information could be found by some type of encoding in the Torah is interesting, and one can only wonder if the author picked it up in Egypt.

  • nancy

    I dunno, duane; I remember a conspiracy theory thread on this website about 9/11 that went on & on & neither side really won; both sides had some pretty good, solid arguments & backup, pro & con. I think I came out believing it was Cheney in the War Room with the Smoking Gun, but at this point in time it’s dim.

    Point is, Al & all, there are idiots of ALL persuasions who will believe anything, any time, any where. The overall human race is not known for sagacity or much common sense, or we wouldn’t be in all the trouble we’re in today, or have gotten ourselves into in the past. It’s just that for some reason those inclined to religiousity seem far more inclined to want to foist their beliefs onto others under the impression they alone have access to absolute truth. Of course there are members of the scientific community who are like this, too, but since they tend to have stricter standards of provability for their beliefs, they are fewer in number & less in/obtrusive. Basically it all goes back to the human instinct … actually, the hominid instinct, when I think about it … to mind everybody else’s business but your own.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Duane what you’re trying to tell me is that there aren’t tens of thousands of radical islamic fundamentalists in the middle east right this moment that haven’t been waiting for someone-anyone to self-righteously pronounce that the reason for the jewish state to exist is false, giving them an excuse to further attempt the extermination of Israel, and that the internet is going to refute that claim, and change their minds?

    I think not.

    For Barger to assert that AIDS is a gay disease and that the victims deserve to die because they’re perverts and pedophiles is irresponsible disimformation and wrong because there’s tens of thousands of people waiting for someone one in authority to say that to justify their hate.-but not unexpected.

    Remember how everyone automatically assumed that Magic Johnson was homosexual the moment they found out he had AIDS-Instant and irresponsible judgment without the facts to back it up.

    It’s no different than some nut job seeing a painted sign that reads “Kill a Queer for Christ” and goes out and does it.

    For Leaders in Iran to pronounce that the holocaust is wrong, because there are tens of thousands of people just waiting for someone one in authority to say that to justify their hate.

    When that preacher blamed Benjamin Franklin for causing the 1755 earthquake with his little lightning rod, what if he’d been put on trial for it? If people were stupid enough to believe it, they’d be stupid enough to convict him.

    Barger is no better than some idiot in Salem yelling WITCH!!!!!!!!!! and half the town believing him.

    Disinformation is poison and dangerous, and there are always people waiting to drink it in like a Jim Jones follower waiting for his koolade.

    The news of the faking of the holocaust recently was spread by joyous word of mouth by people who wanted to believe it, just like Barger’s bullshit is being spread to people who want to believe it.

    I pray to God that everyone is smart enough to see what it is, for what it is.

    And yes, I will blame the religious right on the United State’s decline of thousands of jobs to India and China-Why? Because highschool students are being taught not to trust science by assholes teaching intelligent design as fact and science as theory. Science grades have taking a terrible tumble in this country, while overseas it’s just the opposite.

    At it’s extreem it could put kids off to studying medicine too, in favor of becoming some born-again faith healers.

    Lies and hatred in the name of religion.

    But it’s not legitimate religion that’s the problem. Legitimate belief in Christ and Allah teaches acceptance and cherishing of eachother and “Judge not”. But corporate churchs teach that you only get to heaven if you have a ticket there distributed by this religion or that. that the powerful become saved by judging others unworthy of their approval.

    Jet

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    MAOZ,

    I never frequented strip clubs, and do not know how to “strip”

    Avál, sha’álta, v’t’kabél. Aní lo ehyeh ba’ál akhzavá.

    The gentleman’s name is Zecharia Sitchin, who wrote “The Twelfth Planet” 30 years ago, and has been writing additional works to it since. His essential premise is that the “gods” worshipped by the Sumerians (whom he argues were the first “civilized” people) were not gods at all, but long-lived large sized humans from a planet several times the size of earth that has an orbit that brings it close to the solar system every 3,600 years or so. According to Sitchen, these are the “nefilim” mentioned in the Torah, and their original goal was to mine gold on Earth. Humans worshipped these beings simply because they had advanced technology (which we would recognioze now) and appeared to them to live forever.

    He then traces individuals in Sumerian writings through various transmutations (including one that takes place in India) and notes all sorts of interesting things in the Bible that this explanation would answer, including many of the items used in the Temple to communicate with G-d.

    What is the problem? The planet is no where to be found in the sky, even though he argues it can be found in the literature of the Sumerians describing, amongst other things, the destruction of a planet between Mars and Jupiter, with half of it breaking into little asteroids, and the large chunk of it moving towards the sun to become Earth. According to Sitchen, this destruction is recorded in Sumerian literature because it was taught to the “black haired ones” the Sumerians who were like slaves to these annunaki (‘anakim in Hebrew – giants).

    Because this large planet has not been found, there is a huge hole in his theory which prevents it from being taken seriously. If it is found before he passes away, he like the man who discovered continental drift, will have a large place in the annals of human understanding. His books are carefully researched and while he may not have the whole story right, he has plenty of evidence in his books to back up his ideas.

    But without that big planet somewhere in the sky, it just doesn’t hold water.

  • duane

    Nancy (#88), whenever there are two sides, neither side ever wins at Blogcritics. You might read through a whole thread, and see that the momentum is going one way or another, and then post #360 appears the next day from someone new that seems to have ignored the previous 359 posts, and the argument starts all over again.

    Sometimes people will concede a point (I have), sometimes people will admit to their mistakes (I have), sometimes people will change their minds.

    At best BC debating is educational, but usually it’s debating practice. And that’s worth something.

  • duane

    No, Jet (#89), I’m not trying to tell you that. I’m simply saying that people who are swayed by internet-spread conspiracies can also be swayed in the other direction, so that the spread of disinformation BY INTERNET has an automatic system of checks and balances. I doubt that this applies to the group of people to whom you refer.

  • D’oh

    Ruvy in #90.

    Thanks for sharing th every interesting bit of info.

    One quibble is all I’ll toss out for now. You mention that these aliens came from a much larger planet, and were giants.

    Physics states the opposite would be true, a larger planet with a higher gravity would produce shorter, denser life forms, it would be a planet with less gravity that would produce giants, and they would need artificial aid in getting around our heavier gravity.

    There is a point of diminishing returns as well, too small a planet would not have enough gravity to hold an atmosphere.

    But now I do want to read this book you mention, sounds like fascinating stuff.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Jet- Your responses to me (comments 83 and 89) are just you ratcheting up the dishonesty and drama queen nonsense from the original article- and libelously accusing me of all sorts of evil stuff that I’m not saying nor have any desire to say.

    For example, this nonsense: “For Barger to assert that AIDS is a gay disease and that the victims deserve to die because they’re perverts and pedophiles is irresponsible disimformation and wrong” I said nothing even vaguely resembling that comment.

    I feel pretty sure that a man of your intelligence could not have accidentally missed the point that I was likening the “common knowledge” of homosexuality equating with pedophilia to the “common knowledge” that the Earth is flat. You knew better than that when you typed those words- but you were mad, so you didn’t care. After all, Al Barger is obviously an evil homophobe, so it’s okay to make up whatever you need to say in order to refute him. It’s for a higher good.

    Again as to that point, AIDS is mostly spread by anal sex or sharing drug needles. That’s a fact. It’s not just or fair that people get such a horrible disease just for getting laid- but it’s not my doing. Blame God- not Reagan, and certainly not ME.

    AIDS is to a large extent a gay disease. That’s exactly why you’re so heated up about this disease rather than others that kill far more people, but don’t have any correspondence to your interest group. Then you carry on about AIDS not having anything to do with gays – but directly contradicting yourself by making insufficient attention to AIDS out to be an attack on homosexuals. If AIDS has nothing to do with gay, then it’s no skin off your ass either way.

    It’s a damned shame that gay folk have to deal with this extra nasty disease problem on top of everything else. Shooting the messenger won’t cure the disease, however.

    On the other hand, if you respond to my gentle invocations of reason by throwing a diva fit, hysterically cursing me and saying that I’m stupid and an evil demagogue out to massacre homosexuals- why, that’ll prove conclusively that I’m a no-goodnik whose ideas shouldn’t be considered.

    Everybody can go right on humping as many of whatever kind of holes as they can get to, assured in the knowledge that this doesn’t cause AIDS. And if they get sick anyway, remember that it’s Ron Reagan and Al Barger causing it.

  • D’oh

    Ah, Al..you are familiar with the African statistics about AIDS, are you not? Hardly a gay only problem there, same with the disturbing growth of the illness in Asia.

    That being said, I do think Jet missed you equating the whole “gay disease” bit with the “flat earth” stuff, more than likely an honest error rather than any kind of “drama queen” stuff.

    Since when am I the referee around here?

    bah!

  • Col. Mustard

    “you are familiar with the African statistics about AIDS, are you not?”

    Apparently not.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    but it’s just wishful thinking flying directly in the face of facts for you pretend that it’s an equal opportunity disease.

    AIDS worldwide is a predominately heterosexual disease, only in america after the born-agains got ahold of it and branded it God’s judgment did it suddenly become the “gay cancer”

    It’s also common knowledge that most homosexual men are pedophiles.

    I’m sorry Al what part of that did I missread?

    AIDS is to a large extent a gay disease.

    I’m sorry Al what part of that did I missread?

    And pray tell how are you blaming religious superstition for lack of US competitiveness in the manufacture of electronics? I don’t recall any religious groups protesting against any form of electronic research. That’s just dumb

    Again, the Religious right has nearly forced public schools to teach Intelligent design as more factual than Science. Children are growing up not believing science and are falling behind other parts of the world because of it.

    From the link I provided concerning Ronald Reagon and AIDS…
    If only Ronald Reagan had been willing or able to summon up similar passion and bluntness during the early days of AIDS. First reported in the medical and mainstream press in 1981, it was not until October 1987 that Reagan publicly spoke about the AIDS epidemic in a major policy address. By the end of that year, 59,572 AIDS cases had been reported and 27,909 of those women and men had died. He and his administration did almost nothing during the first seven years of the epidemic. AIDS research was chronically underfunded. Community education and prevention programs were routinely denied federal funding.

    Reagan, a man affectionately dubbed the Great Communicator by his supporters, was excruciatingly, unjustifiably silent about HIV and AIDS. Defenders of the Reagan legacy like to argue that his domestic policy advisers downplayed AIDS to such a degree that the former president never developed a sense of urgency. To accept this, you would also have to believe that Reagan never watched television or picked up a newspaper. The media — print and television, including the first 24-hour news network, CNN — were all over AIDS in the 1980s. Histrionic televangelists like Pat Robertson and Rev. Jerry Falwell seized any opportunity to articulate and promote the idea that AIDS was God’s wrath upon homosexuals.

    Last but not least, you think all you have to do is throw around a bunch of labels like drama queen and pedophile and I’m supposed to lay down and let you get away with it.

    Bullshit…

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    D’oh- I never said that AIDS was a gays-only problem. In America and Europe, it seems to be mostly promiscuous (as opposed to chaste or monogamous) homosexuals and needle-sharing IV drug users who are mostly at risk. I say that not because of liking it or considering it fair, but simply recognizing and naming reality on the ground as best I understand it.

    I claim no significant expertise in infectious disease medicine, but in less developed countries, it doesn’t seem surprising that they would be much more vulnerable to any disease. They’re more sickly to start with, often will have already compromised immune systems, and have less medical knowledge (a point not helped by hysteria from the likes of Jet) or access to health care.

    Thus, it would seem that all this increases the vulnerability of impoverished populations to infection from sexual practices that are generally not high risk for AIDS in healthier, wealthier populations. But still, that mostly involves obvious high risk sexual behavior, whether it’s gay or straight. It’s not just jumping on people out of the air.

    As to “honest error,” I would tend to give all benefit of the doubt in such things – if there is any reasonable doubt. But my writing in comment 81 was not that ambiguous, and Jet certainly knows me better than to honestly think that I’d say or believe anything near to the nonsense he’s attributing to me.

    But he’s been mistreated and he’s ill- as he has been at pains re-iterate, so we should not expect normal civic responsibility to be rational or honest- much less polite. Thus, he expects to throw public hissy fits like this article – much less the increasingly hysterical nonsense in these comments – and ol’ Al is the bad guy cause I dare name the obvious.

    Still, this foolish article reflects badly on the site, as does the shrill hostility in these comments. Also, Jet does not respond well to even the most gently and discreetly stated criticism, so I’ll just have to be the Blue Meanie.

    It’s tough being me, but who else can I be? Which leads to this concluding note: Jet, did you happen to notice that you responded to a charge of being a “drama queen” by throwing a hissy fit? Do you think that likely to be an effective strategy in disproving my observation?

  • D’oh

    Al, you don’t seem to be too aware of AIDS in Africa. The growth is among the women, and heterosexual population. There are quite a few experts who equate much of it with abstinence only education, and not having actual and practical sex education among the population.

    So men go out and fool around, catch the disease, and infect their wives and thus their children.

    A very complex issue all around. I hear what you are saying, but I also hear where Jet and others are coming from as well.

    If the antagonism ratchets down a notch or ten
    (and on this thread, you brought the nasty first , Al)then perhaps better understanding and some education with communication can occur.

    So play nice, the both of you.

  • D’oh

    Another link for the thread can be found here

    A significant breakthrough in electronics, in a Swiss facility with Chinese engineers.

  • SHARK

    Dear Ruvy,

    Thanks for showing yer intellectual pasties on the Torah code thing. I’m almost kinda sorry I asked, tho.

    As far as chasing esoteric puzzles, I actually prefer deconstructing cosmic numerical values as they relate to Hebrew letters found in Madonna songs.

    =======

    BEST LINE OF THE DAY:

    MAOZ: “Watching someone try to do some sort of intellectual striptease here is just not a very charming adventure.”

    That was great, man!

    =======

    Worst Painful Attempt to Be Provocative on a Real Slow Day:

    Al Barger lecturing the class on AIDS.

    =======

    WORST LINE FROM BARGER:

    “I claim no significant expertise in infectious disease medicine, but…”

    =======

    MOST IRONIC MOMENT: Barger denying he has any resemblance to a homophobe — while constantly addressing JET [a gay man, btw] using phrases like “drama queen”, “diva fit”, and “hysterical”.

    ======

    BEST EXAMPLE OF BARGER STARTING TO LET A TINY GLIMMER OF HIS TRUE SELF EMERGE:

    “Everybody can go right on humping as many of whatever kind of holes as they can get to, assured in the knowledge that this doesn’t cause AIDS.”

    Whew!

    If nothing else, Big Al knows how to toss around the compassion, don’t he!?

    ======

    Carry on, kids.

    …But just don’t let that G-man start in on the “Intelligent Design” crap. I ain’t in the mood.

    xxoo
    S

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    D’oh,

    At comment #91. At this point you are no longer arguing with me, you are arguing with Sitchen. He has a web-site, but no e-mail address.

    At comments #85 & #87.

    I live here in Israel, D’oh. My own last name has at least three ways it can spelled in Hebrew that I can think of, though others in Jerusalem bearing it have chosen the same way to spell it that I have (maybe they had the same clerk processing their papers at Ben-Gurion Airport – he did look old enough to have processed Moses’ immigration documents, let alone my great-grandfather’s). So it is no surprise that after 3,000 years, a language will develop a certain flexibility in its spelling – particularly when dealing with transliterating letters from the Latin or Cyrillic alphabets.

    When dealing with names of that nature one of the procedures for Torah Codes researchers is to use all the possible transliterations.

    Maybe you weren’t paying attention to what I wrote. Other peoples in the ancient world have developed calendars, the Chinese and Mayans for example, and those where damned sopisticated calendars at that. But the one culture to have the most accurate number for lunation is ours. And the point is that it was not found by looking in the sky, but by looking in the Torah.

    As for “scientific method”, when a magazine declares that a subject will no longer be considered in future, that is shutting the door to further research, so far as it is concerned. That is not science, that is politics. Ubnfortunately science, like all other forms of human endeavour, is shot through with politics.

    As for McKay and friends and their site, of course I went there, and saw the charges of Dr. Eliyahu Rips proven true. They have used every method they could think of to delegitimize the work of Witztum, Rips and Rosenberg, and they succeeded at the magazine “Statistical Science.”

    In this instance, “orthodox scientists” who have embraced atheism as a faith (something they will never admit to), stand in the place the Catholic Church did 500 years ago, trying to deny advances in human knowledge. They will succeed as well as the Vatican did then.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Finally, Jet, Barger,

    Cut the crap, both of you. You make the magazine look bad. Go duke it out in a bar in Columbus (Jet can’t drive to Indiana these days, so you need to go to him, Al).

  • SHARK

    I found an interesting cosmic conclusion encoded in RUVY’s TEXT!

    If the “n” in “Genesis” = #1, and you take every 19th letter (excluding spaces) IT READS:

    “Maimonides wrote a thousand years ago that the first verses in Ge…

    Nesisdescribingthe = 18 letters
    Universeweretruein = 18 letters
    Terms of providing a moral lesson, but the actual events themselves were hidden in the text, encoded.”

    “NUT”

    Wow.

    Fascinating!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    The light turns on in Shark’s brain – see the following:

    “Nesisdescribingthe = 18 letters
    Universeweretruein = 18 letters
    Terms of providing a moral lesson, but the actual events themselves were hidden in the text, encoded.”

    ‘NUT'”

    Wow, dude!

    I’m impressed! With a bright intellect like that, you could make a real contribution to Torah Codes research yourself. Didn’t know you had it in you.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Referring all of you to comment 4 for proof, Barger and Sussman seem to enjoy immediately dumping on any article I write or any note I leave on the writer’s board with such adjectives as Drama Queen, hysteric, diva etc. all the while using a patronizing tone.

    I’m considerate enough to respond to people that care enough to write to me here and I’m constantly being put down for it, instead writing me off as being nothing more than childishly wanting attention.

    That’s not fucking paranoia-comment 4 makes it a proven god-damned fact.

    You BOTH started the attack. Perhaps sooner or later I’ll start arbitrarily negatively and joyfully leaping on every damned article you write and return the favor you seem to love doing to me.

    Fortunately I’m more grown up than that.

    Al, I refer you back to Comment 97, which you conviently didn’t answer.

    As for you self-righteous pronouncement that I’m making this site look bad, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DECIDE THAT? I’d point out that the word at the top of this piece says OPINION. There’s a difference between intelligently voicing your disagreement with my point of view and CHILDISHLY and condescendingly playing the smart-ass playground jerk.

    Overreacting? You’re godammed right I’m over reacting, and I could bring up dozens of comments like #4-12 and the first sentence of #81 from both of you to fucking prove I’m justified… and that’s just on this article alone.

    Again, I’d like a response to 97.

    Sincerely
    The immature goddamned fucking picked-on cry-baby Drama queen, who only wrote this to get attention.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Shark, thanks for summing it up and making me smile.

    Jet

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    D’Oh and Ruvy, thanks for keeping at an intellectual level, much appreciated.

  • An Angry Citizen

    The light turns on in Shark’s brain – see the following:

    “Nesisdescribingthe = 18 letters
    Universeweretruein = 18 letters
    Terms of providing a moral lesson, but the actual events themselves were hidden in the text, encoded.”

    ‘NUT'”

    Wow, dude!

    I’m impressed! With a bright intellect like that, you could make a real contribution to Torah Codes research yourself. Didn’t know you had it in you.

    Wow Ruvy in Jerusalem, whenever i read your posts, all i see is, “Blah Blah Blah, I’m a dirty Jew.”

  • A Concerned Citizen

    Just want to clarify, although An Angry Citizen and I share the same IP, we are entirely different people in the same work place. Friends, but we have different opinions.

  • nancy

    I’m not against debate; anything is better than the one-woman diatribe going on over at the “Miracle at Fatima” thread, lol!

  • A Concerned Citizen

    I can’t stand that Women Sung About. Is she for real? Because of the completely outlandish things she’s saying (such as being the women from “Let it Be” and Walt Disney or whatever, I don’t know), I’m beginning to think this is a very drawn out joke. Completely stupid and just plain annoying if it is.

    Can we get that woman blocked?

  • A Concerned Citizen

    Or at least stoned.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    dear concerned, PLEASE don’t talk about getting stoned when I have a medicine cabinet full of pain killers!

    So… what did you think of the article?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dear Nancy, I’ve been kinda preoccupied, so accept my belated thanks for your contributions.

    Jet

  • nugget

    Ruvy: They’re vultures. Don’t let them under your skin.

  • SHARK

    JET to Barger and “Stuart Larkin” Sussman: “…sooner or later I’ll start arbitrarily negatively and joyfully leaping on every damned article you write…”

    Hey, that’s my job!

    XXOO

    ~~~~~sh/\rk~~~~~

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Wow Ruvy in Jerusalem, whenever i read your posts, all i see is, ‘Blah Blah Blah, I’m a dirty Jew.'”

    Thanks for the compliment, Shark. I’m flattered. Now let’s teach you the proper phrasing, direct from a kid who was willing to march and bust heads with the Jewish Defense League and Rav Meir Kahana, of blessed memory, may G-d avenge his blood.

    “We are Jews! We couldn’t be prouder. And if you don’t like it, we’ll shout a little louder!!

    WE ARE JEWS! WE COULDN’T BE PROUDER! AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, WE’LL SHOUT IT EVEN LOUDER!

    WE ARE JEWS! WE COULDN’T BE PROUDER! AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, WE’LL SHOUT IT EVEN LOUDER!!

    Whew, that felt good. It’s been too long.

    Those were the days, Shark. The baseball bat still feels good in my hands…

    Love and kisses and
    Happy Hanukkah

    Ruvy in Jerusalem

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Well then Damn it Shark get to work!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, this is getting gross, first your pictured as a stripper, now you’re in a mini skirt and pom-poms doing cheers.

    Do you have any idea how long it’s going to take to get the picture out of our heads.

    Happy Hanukkah
    and blessings

    Jet

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    You know, when the Germans first faced Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto aiming pistols and machine guns at them, they said in utter shock and disbelief “Jews? Weapons?” before getting shot by the partisans.

    Don’t forget the baseball bat I mentioned – it’s purpose was not for playing little girlie games, either…

    And it still feels good in my hands…

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Put the bat down Ruvy, that was meant as friendly banter. This article was inspired by the outrage of Iran trying to deny the holocaust.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    It’s good that you and millions like you feel outrage, Jet. THAT’S progress. Real progress. But for us, the basic lesson is that Jew – hatred is NOT the Jew’s problem, but the problem of the hater of Jews. And our job as Jews is to educate the hater to make sure that if he hates us, he at least does not act on his hatred.

    Hence the bat; the pistol; the M1; the M16, and whatever other damned weapon it takes to “educate” the Jew hater.

    THAT was what I learned from the Rav Meir Kahana of blessed memory, may G-d avenge his blood.

    I learned what the rich scared Jews in America and Tel Aviv have either never learned or have forgotten – to stand up proud with a straight back, and to fear no human – only G-d.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Very well put Ruvy, thanks. I could never pretend to know what it feels like to be a Jew in Israel right now. So many people pretend to know exactly what it means to be Jewish in these times and have no idea. They put labels on you and lump you all into one pile out of ignorance.

    At least you have the comfort of your/our god. In the case of American gays though the problem is that so many evoke the name of God as an excuse to hate us that many of us have left any religious faith behind in order to survive.

    Without knowing us they FALSELY brand us perverts, pedophiles, and little-boy recruiters in order to continue our race. It’d be impossible to explain to someone one straight exactly what it feels like to love in fear like we do. It’d be as hard for a man to try to explain to a woman what it’s like to be a man and vice versa.

    This is tragic.

    I pray for your safety and that of your family every day my friend with what little faith I have left.

    Hate and prejudice is not something created by God, even though those who do evoke his name to do so.

    Jet

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Wow. Just … wow. Okay, we’re gonna have to dissect this one.

    “Referring all of you to comment 4 for proof, Barger and Sussman seem to…

    All right, we’re gonna freeze it right here. Comment No. 4 was written by me and has nothing to do with The Barge. Let’s look at Comment No. 4, shall we?

    “Oh boy, another science vs. religion article! Only thing left to do is weigh odds on how many comments this one will go. We’d normally set the bar at 125, but this is a Jet article, so the parlay is 205½.

    Place yer bets!”

    Now, let’s see what this interpretation is. Continue:

    “…seem to enjoy immediately dumping on any article I write…”

    First off, this is misleading, as I never really said anything one way or another about this particular article, other than it was another one of the science-versus-religion type, which always spawns the same long-winded, never-ending “discussion” between two groups of commenters who shockingly never find any common ground. Of course, it was probably foolish of me to preempt that inevitable to-infinity-and-beyond length “discussion,” and as a result many of the comments do not pertain to the article. Given that, I hope said comments are moderated as such.

    “or any note I leave on the writer’s board with such adjectives as Drama Queen, hysteric, diva etc. all the while using a patronizing tone.”

    Now those are all words that The Barge has so tactfully used, and I haven’t uttered one of them in this thread. So it should be noted that The Barge and I are not on any “team,” as I disagree with him on much. For one, Al, are you serious? AIDS is mainly transmitted through anal sex and needles? I ain’t gonna look up the stats but that can’t be right. Everyone knows AIDS is mainly transmitted though — survey says! — unprotected sex. The No. 2 answer, everyone knows, is by shaking a gay man’s hand.

    And while it may not be appropriate to call you a drama queen or a diva since you are a gay man and we need to be as politically correct as possible in these trying times, I will apologize for any time I may have said those words — don’t know if I did, but let’s just be safe — and convert all those times I used those terms to simply say you had a cyber-tantrum, because people of all sexual orientations can have ’em.

    “I’m considerate enough to respond to people that care enough to write to me here and I’m constantly being put down for it, instead writing me off as being nothing more than childishly wanting attention.”

    Which is the reason the 125 mark I normally would have set on a science-verse-religion article would have stood, but since Jet this is your article and you respond to every comment, even if one commenter addresses another, that’s why I set the over-under at above 200.

    “That’s not fucking paranoia-comment 4 makes it a proven god-damned fact.”

    Who said anything about paranoia in this thread?

    “You BOTH started the attack.”

    A time-tested, effective playground alibi. “He started it!”

    “Perhaps sooner or later I’ll start arbitrarily negatively and joyfully leaping on every damned article you write and return the favor you seem to love doing to me.”

    Which wouldn’t be all that bad, even though it’d be odd since you’ve commented on my articles in the past saying you enjoyed them, but I haven’t been feelin’ it lately and could use some criticism to improve my style.

    “Fortunately I’m more grown up than that.”

    It might be worth noting that this comment I’m dissecting was almost entirely inside an arbitrary bold tag, and that you responded to my comments with offers of cheap motel sex.

    “Al, I refer you back to Comment 97, which you conviently didn’t answer.

    As for you self-righteous pronouncement that I’m making this site look bad, WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO DECIDE THAT? I’d point out that the word at the top of this piece says OPINION. There’s a difference between intelligently voicing your disagreement with my point of view and CHILDISHLY and condescendingly playing the smart-ass playground jerk.”

    That’s between you and Al, so I’ll take the fif.

    “Overreacting? You’re godammed right I’m over reacting, and I could bring up dozens of comments like #4-12 and the first sentence of #81 from both of you to fucking prove I’m justified… and that’s just on this article alone.”

    Well, let’s look at the tape. What was No. 12?

    “I take have the time to respond to my readers”

    Fixed that for ya’.”

    Ah yes. A response to a criticism of mine, saying I don’t take the time to respond to comments. Not only do I feel it unnecessary to respond to every comment that comes my way, I don’t have the time. You do.

    As for it being a jab at your methods, well, yeah it is. And you know what? Dozens of jabs are taken from person to person on this site, and thousands more on the Internet every day. Imagine if everyone responded and reacted to those jabs in a similar way that you do.

    But I’m not sure what any of this has to do with Barger.

    Now, what was Comment No. 81, the first line?

    “Not to put too fine a point on it, but this article is crap.”

    Ah, not something I said. We’ll see if Al responds.

    * * *

    Jet, I’ve said this to you several times, and perhaps saying it again will not get through, but let’s take a shot anyway: not every person will like your articles. This is a truism that writers of all levels from novice to Plimpton face. You really need to find out a way to handle that, or professionally it looks horrible.

    “Again, I’d like a response to 97.”

    That’s Al’s department.

  • Baronius

    OK, Jet, I’ll try one more time.

    You seem to be focusing on four examples: Falwell re aids, someone re the Moon landing, creationists re creationism, and Iran re the Holocaust. I hope that you’ll recognize that these moon-landing nuts aren’t affecting US policy any more than the crop-circle nuts.

    As for Falwell, you don’t really back up your position with direct connections. As I recall, conservatives weren’t big on federal money for AIDS, or anything else. You certainly don’t present proof that the position of some evangelical preachers influenced US policy.

    You also do a little historical revision of your own. As I recall, the left was adamantly opposed to government involvement in the AIDS crisis. Activists were worried about a wave of restrictions (quarantines, tattoos, etc.). The gay rights movement was just making progress, and feared a new backlash. At the time – talk about conspiracy theories – people were accusing the government of having created AIDS.

    So by my count, that brings us down to two cases of evil revisionists affecting policy, creationists and Holocaust deniers. I don’t think that story-tellers have a great impact on policy overall. The damage is more cultural, encouraging an affectation of sophisticated skepticism.

  • SHARK

    RUVY, just for the record,

    SHARK didn’t have anything to do with that line about “dirty jew”.

    in comment #109, “An Angry Citizen” quotes me from another comment and then adds his own line at the bottom; the one that’s racist and despicable.

    I would never write anything like that.

    Please adjust your head accordingly.

    Thanks in advance,
    S

  • SHARK

    Dear “Stuart” Sussman,

    coupla points:

    1) NO ONE gives a shit. Dots on a screen.

    2) At least Jet’s articles get read. ~ahahaha.

    3) ESPN is on. Go fetch!

  • SHARK

    Oh, and Ruvy:

    On the morning of Jan. 11, 1945, my father was among the first of a handful of Americans to arrive at Buchenwald (US, 3rd Div). He saw it firsthand. The Holocaust has never been a subject for “denial” in our house.

    S

  • SHARK

    Whoops. Should have read:

    APRIL 11, 1945

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Uh-oh there’s blood in the water and a shark lurking!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Baronius apparently you didn’t read #97…
    the last sentence from the article on Ronald Reagon

    Reagan, a man affectionately dubbed the Great Communicator by his supporters, was excruciatingly, unjustifiably silent about HIV and AIDS. Defenders of the Reagan legacy like to argue that his domestic policy advisers downplayed AIDS to such a degree that the former president never developed a sense of urgency. To accept this, you would also have to believe that Reagan never watched television or picked up a newspaper. The media — print and television, including the first 24-hour news network, CNN — were all over AIDS in the 1980s. Histrionic televangelists like Pat Robertson and Rev. Jerry Falwell seized any opportunity to articulate and promote the idea that AIDS was God’s wrath upon homosexuals.

    As for the left and AIDS, What revision? My only claim is that it was revised from worldwide fact that an overwhelming majority of cases are heterosexual to it being a “gay cancer” that only homosexuals get, endangering the straight population by the disinformation coming from Falwell and company plus Reagan’s meek silence.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    SHARK didn’t have anything to do with that line about “dirty jew”.

    in comment #109, “An Angry Citizen” quotes me from another comment and then adds his own line at the bottom; the one that’s racist and despicable.

    I would never write anything like that.

    Shark,

    My apologies,

    I saw the comment and assumed it was you. I shoulda looked more closely. Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

    What I said still stands, albeit not directed at you. I misjudged your words out of carelessness, and I apologize.

    Shabbat Shalom,
    Reuven
    ————————————————–
    For “An Angry Citizen” who lurks out there with his racist crap in hand to sling:

    Sharks needling may bring out the intellectual pasties. But your trash brings out the spikes, the chains, the basaball bats, the guns, the rifles, and anything else that it takes to educate you and scum like you that some Jews will not take shit from anybody.

    Have a good Sabbath – if you even know what means.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “On the morning of Jan. 11, 1945, my father was among the first of a handful of Americans to arrive at Buchenwald (US, 3rd Div). He saw it firsthand. The Holocaust has never been a subject for “denial” in our house.”

    Your father saw a flicker of hell as its embers were burning out. The Nazi evil was a variety of satanism (yes, it was a religion) that humanity can ill afford. That is why you do not see me tossing names like “nazi” around like stickers on things I do not like or agree with. There are the things I don’t like or agree with – there’s lots of that in the world – and then there is unspeakable evil.

    That your father did not suppress the unspeakable evil he saw as “too upsetting” speaks well of him. That you remember the details so well speak well of you.

    Shabbat shalom u’mevorákh,
    Reuven

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Alrighty then, one more bite at this apple, and y’all can have it.

    Summary: I’m right and reasonable and have a perfectly good point. Jet’s wrong and doesn’t have ANY good points here. In short, he’s wrong and I’m right. Not that there can’t ever be a reasonable disagreement with me- but there just ain’t one here.

    I said that this article was crappy, and addressed the words and ideas in his story to explain why I thought it to be poor writing. That’s not a personal attack on Jet, whom I sometimes like- though admittedly not so much right this minute. Further, I will note that he’s written a few really good stories here and a number of pretty good ones. This just isn’t one of them.

    Then Jet responds by calling all kinds of names that were censored before I even saw them and generally carrying on like I’m being a big meanie picking on the poor gay guy. He responded to my criticism of this article by having a hissy fit and personally disrespecting me. That’s just begging for a rebuke, ain’t it?

    “Drama queen” is exactly the right phrase to describe Jet’s behavior here- Jet’s recognition of which is exactly why he’s having MORE hissy fits and MORE drama queen behavior to protest it.

    This is not bigotry or prejudice; it’s an obvious observation based on Jet’s ridiculous misbehavior. Nor am I looking for something to say against him- the drama queen act is right in my face, ain’t it? If you don’t like being called “drama queen” then don’t get in my face acting like one.

    But you can’t name the ill behavior – or he’ll generate even MORE drama. Because he’s carrying on about being an oppressed and abused minority with tender, hurt feelings, if he decides to be hurt and offended, that makes me an asshole for oppressing him.

    He can’t be thinking that he’s making logical points, so it would apear that the strategy is to punish even so mild-mannered a critic as Sussman by dragging them down into his shame spiral.

    But I’m so disgusted by his ridiculous behavior here that I don’t care. If you think that calling bullshit on this nonsense constitutes homophobia, bringing the nasty, or just plain being a big meanie, I’ll take the rap. Jet has many fine qualities as a human being and all, but he’s behaving here like a two year old with typing skills.

    I’ve got a reasonably deep well of human empathy, but Jet has entirely exhausted it here. Past some point, I don’t care how sick and oppressed you are, if you write something as crappy as this article and then respond to literary criticism with hysteria and disrespect, then I’m liable to name it.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Al, you discouraged me so much I’m giving up politics-my next 5 articles will all be music reviews.

    Love
    Jet

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Jet, please feel free to write about politics. Just try to think things through better. For starters, I would gently recommend narrowing your focus in an article to a smaller bite size. Perhaps, for example, you might write a story just about how fake moon landing conspiracists are like intelligent design advocates.

    I don’t mean to discourage you from writing, nor from writing about any particular topic. Again, I was one of the first folks here to encourage you to start a blog and join the BC. Mostly, I’m glad of it. You’re a good fellow, and you’ve done some good work here.

    But you went off the rails with this particular story, and -not to put too fine a point on it- don’t tend to respond well even to literary criticism. Having a conniption fit is generally not an effective way to deal with me, cause it’ll just get you spanked.

    But I rebuke with love. I don’t hate you anymore than I hate my two year old godson when I have once or twice found it necessary to swat that bottom.

    XOX

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    No no Al, you’re absofuckinglootly right, I must bannish myself from ever writing political drivvel again until I find myself worthy of never seeing a comment from you that begins with

    this article is crap

    Until I can find a point of view that pleases you I shall hensforth confine myself to music reviews and manly sports articles.

    Thank you so much for your input and putting my feeble mind on the right track.

    Jet

  • MAOZ

    Apropos of comment #4: What is this?! Three days already, and we’re only up to 138 comments?! C’mon, people!

    Okay, okay, I’ll crawl back into my box now….

  • D’oh

    LOL..MOAZ, you are always welcome. Sound off!

    Jet, “get up eight”.

  • Baronius

    Ruvy’s praying in Latin, and Jet is denouncing his own article. The board has imploded at just over 125 comments. Matt’s first figure was amazing.

  • SHARK

    Barger,

    Get yer own material.

    Thanks in advance.

    xxoo
    S

  • SHARK

    BigAl: “…Having a conniption fit is generally not an effective way to deal with me, cause it’ll just get you spanked.”

    Is it just me…

    or…

    Anyone else think Big Al is just screaming to come outta the closet?

    =========

    Gotta run! Purple Rain rerun is on!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    MOAZ I’m so ashamed of not meeting my quota I’m giving up writing about politics

    sniff

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    D’oh, I’ve already gotten up ten, damn it. Any more and I’m going to need Viagra!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Two sure signs of the apocolyps isn’t it Baronius?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Shark I wasn’t going to say anything about that. Al’s probably not into leather any way.

  • D’oh

    Whatever it takes, Jet.

  • Mrs. Peacock

    What are African statistics and folks needing some aid. Col. Mustard and I are commiting murders with daggers and making out in the study. Dont have a clue what your comment is about.

  • duane

    Jet, instead of abandoning your career as a commentator on world affairs, take #140 to heart.

    Al is a worthy debating opponent, and you should take him on — without the insults, without the hurt feelings, without the resignation. It’s good for ya.

    Your posts are obviously popular watering holes. You must be doing something right.

    You know what they say about love — its opposite is indifference.

    xxoo

    Ooops, sorry Shark. I retract that.

  • D’oh

    Jet, listen to duane, he is wise as well as an astrophysicist.

    As for me, I say you should continue to bring the noise!

  • duane

    Well, that were some circulation inducing ass kickin’ weren’t it? Bring the noise, indeed. Damn.

    D’oh, you have the fine musical taste. Perfect Circle … Anthrax/Public Enemy … hmmm ….

  • D’oh

    Well duane, I do think that this thread, and Jet deserve a little respect walk

    but, then again, to defy the laws of tradition, is a crusade only of the brave

    As Stan Lee has stated, “nuff said”

  • duane

    Ah, as I suspected. I recognize the lion by his paw.

  • D’oh

    A lion? I am flattered.

    I think that Jet just feels like he might be falling to pieces like some kind of freak on a leash but his words and work around here can never be outshined by bullshit and naysayers.

  • troll

    so…here we are again

    Jet – you are a drama queen (emotionally open and fragile and all)…wear the label with pride and remember that we really do love you just the way you are

  • sr

    Jet, take this mental image to bed. Rosey O and Hillary running naked in front of you. Their blubber cheaks flapping in the wind. A sight to behold dont you think? “Ho-ha!”

  • D’oh

    sr- for that bit of heinous imagery, I’m going to sic cellos after you.

    Jet, I can and will keep this up, until you smile and shake off the feeling of a sunless saturday

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Mrs. Peacock, what have you been smoking?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    No no no Duane, I must punish myself for writing such crap, you can find two just-submitted music reviews over in the music section.

    I’m a man of my word, maybe after I’ve done a macho sports article or two too, I’ll think about coming back.

    Until then, I know when I’m not wanted

    sniff

    The drama queen

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    D’oh… What no funk?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ahhhhh stop it Troll, yer makin’ me blush.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    SR, we’re going to have to have a talk about those fantasies of yours. Are you getting enough fiber?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    D’oh (:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (:-)

  • D’oh

    Jet, da funk is in the last link of #158.

    {8^P~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh, Okay, thanks D’oh

  • http://Myblazeblog.blogspot.com Marsha Anderson

    hello,

    I have one question. Who wrote religion? And how can it be rewritten if it isn’t. Science is always renewable since new and old things are found to be questionable, and so is history, since men are known to embellish, and lie outright about how things are played out in order to write the story about it.
    The Bible is not about religion. It’s about the extraordinary telling a true story about those who lost the ability to be extraordinary and how to obtain that particular stronghold again even if you believe on the name of that extrordinary storyteller so, that even by the power of that particular extraordinary story teller/by way of his spirit one can achieve the extrordinary way of life again at at indefinite, according to his extraordinary spirit. Got that?!!!!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Marsha, are you aware of just how many hundreds of version of the bible there are?

    Then again I bet you only think there is one because you believe yours is the only one right?

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    Great stuff, Jet.

    Hitler, of course, was a huge proponent of the “big lie technique.” From Wikipedia’s Big Lie entry:

    “The phrase was also used (on page 51) in a report prepared during the war by the United States Office of Strategic Services in describing Hitler’s psychological profile [1]
    His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it. – OSS report page 51 [2]”

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thank you Elvira and Wow!

    Let see…

    His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off;
    Dubya won’t stop screaming terrorist-terrorist!

    never admit a fault or wrong;
    Tell me once when Dubya has EVER admitted he was wrong?

    never concede that there may be some good in your enemy;
    Hmmm, he has been paying lip service to the islamic faith, but that’s all it is.

    never leave room for alternatives;
    Even thoush the voters said we want out of Vietnam (excuse me Iraq) Bush is still planing to send more troops there instead of pulling out.

    never accept blame;
    It’s the general’s fault-it’s Rumsfeld’s fault that’s why I fired him. The war isn’t going as well as I expected!

    concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong;
    Forget Afghanistan, that was just an excuse to whip the people up behind me so I could go after Iraq and avenge my father’s failures. We’d have been a great success if it weren’t for the insurgencey, The PEOPLE of Iraq are behind me, never mind that the people ARE the insurgency.

    people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one;
    Iraq has huge stockpiles of WMDs!!!

    and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.
    ’nuff said.

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    I know you’d connect the dots there, Jet. Moreover, I’ve read that some Muslim extremists are big admirers of ole Adolph. Seems like they know all the techniques as well.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Don’t think for one minute I don’t know what you’re doing Elvira, you want me to break my vow to give up politics for a while.

    It might work…

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    Jet, you’re a great writer and I think you should continue to write on anything and everything you have a passioin for. I share your philosophy about comments as well. Of course, posts that deal with religion and politics are especially likely to produce some flak from commenters. But to me, it’s all part of the fun. And speaking of fun, I love how you rib some of your would-be “detractors.”

    I recently wrote a religious post, and when I got some comments that revealed some flaws in what I had written, I readily admitted that I can be an idiot, but I’m always glad to learn from others. As a result, everything remained very civilized, and I did indeed learn a lot.

    Of course, everyone has their breaking point. I recently bitch-slapped a commenter on someone else’s post. She’s an insufferable woman who gets off on insulting posters and commenters at great length. After my little tirade, she up and disappeared–though it’s probably just a coincidence, and I almost wish she’d reappear again.

    Carry on, Jet, and I’m glad to hear about the recent eye treatments as well.

  • troll

    Elvira says – *But to me, it’s all part of the fun.*

    and that’s the truth…

    (PS – not to worry about moonraven…I believe that she’s traveling now and will re enter the fray at some point from Caracas if we’re lucky)

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    Troll:

    I kinda figured it was something like that. I hate to say it, but reading her comments and the responses is kind of addictive. Come on back, Moonraven, you surly bitch!

  • troll

    Arrrrgh – the plank for the wench I say mate

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks Elvira and Troll, I needed to smile about then… Jet

  • Clavos

    I kinda figured it was something like that. I hate to say it, but reading her comments and the responses is kind of addictive. Come on back, Moonraven, you surly bitch!

    It would be a lot more fun if she weren’t such a liar.

    Elvira, “surly” is too gentle a word (though “bitch” ain’t bad).

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Pulleease, such language, I’m … I’m gasping for air here!

  • Clavos

    I’m sorry.

    You’re right, Jet.

    I never should have used “ain’t” in writing…

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    Clavos:

    “Liar” is too nice a word as well. Hey, could it be that Moon has crawled back into her hole after we so roundly chastized her yesterday? If so, I’m rather disappointed.

    Sorry Jet…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    When did I suddenly become the Church Lady?

  • Clavos

    “How conveeeeenient”

    No, Elvira, she’s back on my Chavez thread. She and Les Slater are having a love fest as I type this.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Damn it Clavos I hear that coming a mile away and didn’t duck in time!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Attention: I’d like to invite everyone to look at the right side menu. That button marked BC Forums….

  • Rick

    You’ve covered a lot of good points here… and there’s certainly many things we can both agree upon.

    I do however, find much of your information and brainwashed attitude to be just a little “too American” for my liking… or for the good of the internet as a whole.

    There’s more to TRUTH than simply believing everything your evil leaders and political system would program you to believe in the name of artificial pride and glory. Try taking a good hard look at your own culture and information sources, before criticising the teachings and beliefs of others, or their religion.

    I guess I can remain thankful that only a small portion of our world is expected to think and act like Americans.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Rick you have just as much right to be anti-American as I do to be pro American…

    …but of course that’s only my opinion!

    Jet

  • http://bloggingontheedgeofsuicide.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Snow Snow go away, come again some other day.

    PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    (sung by a chorus of Munchkins)
    Ding-dong the JOM is gone!!!!
    Which old JOM? The moron JOM
    Ding-dong the moron JOM is gone!!!

    Wake up you sleepyhead
    Rub your eyes, get out of bed
    Wake up the moron JOM is gone

    He’s gone where the goblins go
    Below – below – below
    Yo-ho, let’s open up
    and sing and ring the bells out
    Ding Dong’ the merry-oh,
    sing it high, sing it low
    Let them know the Moron JOM is gone!!!!!!!

    and please lord let him stay wherever Eric and Chris bannished him too….

    (:^P~~~~~~

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Forgive the previous GREAT NEWS comment, but I’m so happy:) WE DON’T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT JERK ANY MORE!!!!

  • troll

    “[We separate him, together with his accomplices and abettors, from the precious body and blood of the Lord] and from the society of all Christians; we exclude him from our holy mother the Church in heaven and on earth; we declare him excommunicate [and anathema]”

    strike his name and visage from all obelisks

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    …Uh okay… Does that mean JOM’s name is no longer written the the Lamb’s book of life?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Interesting,

    JOM has been banished to the methane filled swamps of New Jersey? But who else is going to whine about all welfare and free cheese I don’t get from America?

    Actually, I could have still use the money he was alleging we all get here, but don’t let that on to anybody…. It’ll be just our little secret. You, me and the few million folks who drop by to read….

    SHHHHHH…..

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Shabbat shalom-Your secret is safe Ruvy, after all no one reads my articles… Blessings my friend and be safe

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Jet – what do you mean, no-one reads your articles? Did I miss that review of your new desk?

    😉

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Okay, fine, you asked for it, the next article I write will be about my desk…..oy vay

  • http://miriamsideas.blogspot.com miriam

    God had nothing to do with the persecution of the Jews, Hitler did. Hitler hated Jews, but he also hated organized religion. And Slavs. And gays.

    It is to the discredit of the German people that they elected this mad, evil man. Once he was in power, they could no longer get rid of him.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    You should, I think, work in a strong case for how great your desk would look in the White House.

    (Elect Jet! [write-in campaign])

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    That’s very true Miriam, but it had more to do with Hitler trying to bring a population ravaged by the great depression together by finding one thing they could all hate together.

    Unfortunately in this world, and in this time it’s easier to get a populous to collectively hate than it is to collectively love….

    Look at Falwell and Bryant and the gays,
    Look at Robert E. Lee and the blacks
    Look at bin Laden and the americans…
    Look at Bush and anyone looking even vaguely Arabic.
    …as the nightmare continues…

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh great… just what I’d need-a press secretary named Dr. Dreadful!!! :)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    God had nothing to do with the persecution of the Jews, Hitler did. Hitler hated Jews, but he also hated organized religion.

    With all respect, Miriam, I beg to differ with you. G-d runs the universe, a fact that we should not ever forget. Given that, it would do you well to read this essay: Confronting the Holocaust Jewishly.

    Secondly, the Nazis did not hate religion per se – they hated the religions they disagreed with, like Judaism and Christianity. They viewed us Jews as a Gegenrasse, a race that they had to exterminate, as we, in their eyes, polluted the world. In a simple sentence, they stood the Kabbala on its head, made us the enemies – and built a mystic reality on this. The Nazis most assuredly had a religious framework for their ideas. They eventually found, after much research, Buddhist texts in Tibet that referred to Jews as ancient enemies, and it was a Nazi who tutored the man today known as the Dalai Lama.

    Shavua Tov,
    Reuven

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    “Oh great… just what I’d need-a press secretary named Dr. Dreadful!!! ”

    I’m sorry Doc for the sarcasm, if you want to be my press secretary, okay, and you won’t even have to sit on my lap…. :)

  • http://bloggingontheedgeofsuicide.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh Great, they’re carrying guns now! According to published reports the Tennessee guy that shot up that church left a note that it was because he hated liberals, and actions that the church was taking to encourage understanding towards gays.

    I guess us fags are going to have to start toting guns for self-defence.

  • Cannonshop

    Jet, I would’ve suggested (and have suggested to gay acquaintances in the past) that anyone who tends to be subjected to bullying and unprovoked violence OUGHT to be armed as a matter of course, and spend at least SOME time learning how to use whatever weapon they so choose in a competent manner-because scumbags, and violent scumbags, will not be deterred by morality or law, nor will they be overawed by “The moral high ground”. They’re stopped by bullets, sometimes they’re deterred by the fear of being taken by their proposed victims, and when they’re bent on “Suicide by cop (or bystander)” then it’s best to expedite their journey to the creator-preferably before they’ve been able to hurt more than one or two other people. An asshole eaten by hate will find other methods, guaranteed. (IIRC, explosives are a controlled substance just about everywhere, but it doesn’t stop suicide bombers in the london tube or car-bombers, does it?)
    It is prudent, in a violent society, to be armed when you’re targeted by walking filth.

  • http://bloggingontheedgeofsuicide.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Cannon, having dated several cops, on of the hardest questions for them to answer in a post shooting incodent is “How many times did you fire your weapon?” and usually they’ll think they only fired 2-3 times when they’d actually emptied the whole clip.

    I’d be afraid of emptying a gun into someone who just walked up to me to ask for directions.

    I’m one of the people who should never own a gun because after the attack, and four years later, I’m still being treated for Post Traumatic Stress and I jump at shadows.

    I can handle hand to hand, but if I even think someone has a gun, I go into panic mode.

    Should the average citizen own guns, yes
    … to protect thier home from an intruder (though many a wife killer has gotten off by saying they thought she was a burglar)

    Out on the street. Unless you’re a bonded carrier no.

    It’s really a moot point, anyone with half a brain can go out and buy a gun from a friend and then shoot up a school, there’s no way to stop that, there’s just too many guns available.

    “I’ll beet you in the middle of main street at high noon.

    oy

  • Cannonshop

    Each their own, Jet, but I’d say that if you’re willing to at least resist with your hands, that’s something-I’d recommend a “Stun Gun” or other equalizer just-in-case, on account of I don’t know how big, trained, or skilled you are at fisticuffs and grappling. I’d also (please, don’t be offended) suggest you shop around a bit more if your therapy’s not working, on account of there are lots of people in the “mental health” field who excel mainly at projecting their own defects and insecurities onto their patients, along with handing out drugs, and a lot of “Treatment professionals” seem bent on dismantling their patient’s will to resist further victimization. (I know they tried with me from about age thirteen on until I finally realized they weren’t helping.)

    I didn’t stop having nightmares and jumping at shadows until I learned how to USE that paranoia and accept that there are bad, bad, people out there that have to be stopped-and that they CAN be stopped, and that more to the point, I can help STOP them with preparation and some learned situational awareness. The counselors, on the other hand, wanted to drug me silly and get me on disability so that I could afford to pay for THEIR treatments (with government help). My way probably doesn’t work for everyone, Jet, but it worked for me well enough that I can function without antidepressants, sleep-aids, and anxiety medications or hour upon hour (year after year) of therapy that isn’t working.

    for me, the first step was admitting to myself that the ‘edge’ wasn’t unreasonable or irrational, it wasn’t going to go away and if I didn’t learn to read and control it, it would become unreasonable and irrational. The second was realizing that the nightmares weren’t an aberration, but a warning-this has happened, and if I didn’t do something REAL to prevent it, it would probably happen again. Finding out how I could make sure it didn’t happen to ME again was step three onward. somewhere in there, there’s the idea that if I can learn to prevent it (or make the bastard pay a price higher than he’s willing to risk)for me, I can help other people prevent it from happening to THEM. somewhere in there was also the admission that “The kindness of strangers” doesn’t exist, and that the Police aren’t coming to save anyone-least of all myself, if anyone is a-gonna do something, it’s got to be the person who’s there. At that point, it became a matter of learning and practicing, and eventually teaching, and somewhere in there, the anxiety attacks stopped, the nightmares became manageable, and I got healthier all around-because I wasn’t RULED by my fear anymore-it’s still here, but it’s under control. Guns don’t do that-they’re objects. I don’t even carry most places, I don’t need to-but I’m aware of the places I DO need to, and take appropriate action to avoid those places whenever possible. Fear and paranoia are a heightened sense of danger-if you can learn to read and control them, they’re useful, if you rely on some degreed parasite to tell you they’re bad and give you lies and dope so you can momentarily feel everything is sunshine, you’re never going to get over what happened to you-the wound will just keep bleeding forever-and-ever-amen, and worse, you’ll see everyone around you not for who they are, but with a twisted fun-house caricature built out of fear and the lies you’ve been told by someone who’s adept at telling the lies that make you feel (temporarily) better, or morally superior, or whatever toxic opiate they want to feed you this week. (and that goes for the Preachers too. Freddy Phelps and his ilk recruit from the same pool of anxiety, paranoia, irrationality,ignorance, weakness, and fear that the degreed parasites do.)

    If you’re willing to use your hands to resist, great-develop your ability to resist with your hands, learn to use your eyes, ears, and mind to detect the bastards at a distance, use your fear to motivate your eyes to become sharp, your ears discriminating, your sense of smell, and your physical readiness. Use your mind to provide the brakes and teach yourself to recognize the difference between a threat posture and a harmless one, learn to spot concealed weapons. Until you’re confident you can handle a situation, it’s going to always be in your nightmares, no matter how much sunshine and daisies your therapist pushes at you and no matter how much panacea your local alderman/advisor/city-councilman/Preacher,whatever, pushes at you, or the lies politicians spew about “Cleaning up the streets”-they have a vested interest in your being fearful and as helpless as they can convince you to stay, because if you’re fearful and helpless, they can rule you, they can extract from you with empty promises, outright lies, and conspiracy theories, because you become dependent on them, rather than the natural relationship in which your “Leaders” are dependent on YOU.

    And the criminals, the bashers, the thugs and the other urban predatory scum of the earth rely on two things-one, complacent victims unwilling and unable to resist, and two, victims who remain traumatized for years and won’t cause them ACTUAL trouble in the form of stepping up to protect the former or making their lives uncomfortable in other, non-illegal ways.

  • http://bloggingontheedgeofsuicide.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Cannon, no offense taken, but I have one of the best therapists in the field, the problem is that after all this time, they’re still not done repairing the physical damage that was done yet, so the constant physical doctor’s appointments and the fact that the private work comp provider keeps trying to come up with new and inovative ways to dump me from their roles is as much a source of stress as the original injuries.

    It takes a while to get over it when three guys get up close and personal and try to beat you to death…

    Especially when you can’t identify them, but there’s always the possibility of them spotting you and…

  • http://jeanniedanna.wordpress.com/ jeannie danna

    Jet,

    I just dugg this article, and I’ll bookmark it to read later, I promise! :)

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Thanks sweetie

  • http://jetsgayheadlinenews-jet.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    A judge has upheld the firing of a central Ohio public school science teacher who was accused of preaching religious beliefs in class and of keeping a Bible on his desk.

    Freshwater was also accused of using a science tool to burn students’ arms with the image of a cross.

    The school board in the community about 40 miles northeast of Columbus first tried to dismiss Freshwater in 2008 after investigators reported that he preached Christian beliefs in class when discussing topics such as evolution and homosexuality, and was insubordinate in failing to remove a Bible from his classroom.

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