Today on Blogcritics
Home » Culture and Society » “Where’s the Beef”?

“Where’s the Beef”?

Please Share...Tweet about this on Twitter0Share on Facebook0Share on Google+0Share on LinkedIn0Pin on Pinterest0Share on TumblrShare on StumbleUpon0Share on Reddit0Email this to someone

Those of us that are old enough and fond of TV commercial history remember the famous Wendy’s hamburger chain commercials of the 1980s. You might remember they featured three fickle old ladies that enter a burger joint and are disappointed at the size of the patty on the bun. The old biddies’ appearance in that commercial ends with the refrain from one of them, “where’s the beef”? Overnight, “where’s the beef”? became a popular nationwide response for anything lacking in substance. It was even used to chastise a presidential candidate for lack of details in his campaign platform.

Let’s fast forward to yesterday and the amazing news that the U.S. military finally brought Osama bin Laden to justice. Bin Laden has allegedly been on the run from U.S. forces since President Bush sent our military into Afghanistan shortly after 911. I say allegedly because no one could be sure if bin Laden was dead or alive all this time. True, he appeared to star in videos from his remote cave hideouts that were disseminated to the world by Al Jazeera. Our intelligence agencies inspected the videos and assured us of their authenticity. But still, who could tell. After all, didn’t Saddam Hussein have several different doubles? 

So, President Obama goes on TV last night and announces that yes, when he took office in 2009 he made it a first priority in the War on Terror to capture bin Laden dead or alive. He stated that for several weeks his administration sifted through intelligence reports of bin Laden’s whereabouts meticulously. Finally, when there was a certain guarantee of launching a successful capture of bin Laden the president as commander in chief gave the order to execute the plan. And we were told that the plan came off flawlessly. A fire fight was involved and when the smoke cleared the dead corpse of the world’s most wanted man was in the custody of the Navy Seals. Hollywood could not have scripted a better movie.

The only problem is “where’s the beef”? Where is bin Laden’s body to corroborate the president’s fish story. An administration official has indicated that in accordance with Islamic practice, which the U.S. military respects very much (forget for a moment about Abu Ghraib), bin Laden’s body was buried at sea. You see the U.S. military didn’t have time to parade his body in public for the world to see like it did when it executed Saddam Hussein. Saddam’s corpse was shown to the Iraqi people to quell their fears that there was any chance he would be coming back. As an American whose government has spent trillions trying to capture bin Laden and who has had constitutional rights taken away and been sexually molested at airports because of the danger he posed, don’t I have a right to see his bullet riddled body to quell my fears that he is never coming back?

Anyway, here is what I think might be the truth. Bin Laden died years ago at the hands of American bombers in the mountains of Afghanistan. It made sense for the U.S. government to not publicize his death given it would be used to recruit new members to Al Qaeda and encourage attacks on U.S. interests. However, today the economy is in the toilet, we are involved in at least three recognized wars, and Barrack Obama’s approval rating is dismal. Having just launched his reelection campaign the president needed some good news. Since capturing bin Laden was the first priority of his in fighting the War on Terror, why not go for the gusto. Make the whole thing up. Fabricate the story that our forces just killed him last night. Claim his body had to be disposed of within twenty-four hours out of respect for Islam and we couldn’t bury him on land, like Saddam Hussein was, for fear his followers would go there to honor him as a martyr. Americans will be dancing in the streets, the dollar will strengthen, the stock market will rise, and Obama will look like a strong leader which will bode well for his reelection chances. Conspiracy theory you say? Maybe, but the discerning observer should still ask “where’s the beef”? Why couldn’t we have seen the body to verify the story? After all, isn’t a murder case on shaky ground without the body?

At the end of the day whatever was left of Barrack Obama’s credibility is at the bottom of the sea with bin Laden’s corpse. One of two things happened. Either the whole thing is a fraud for political ends like George W. Bush pulled claiming Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and ties to Al Qaeda so he could invade Iraq. Or Obama is not smart enough to realize you need evidence to prove fish stories. Whatever the case, given how much Americans have sacrificed for the War on Terror don’t we deserve better?

Powered by

About Kenn Jacobine

  • stephen

    I was amazed by the News yesterday but for me showing the dead body of OSAMA can prove to the public that he is really died. And whats the point of throwing his body in the sea?.

    That so unacceptable act of U.S military to threw away the body of Osama in the sea…isn’t it?

    Im not a Pro Bin Laden im only expressing my 2 cents in my the right and intellectual side.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Yeah. I’m a little curious about this sudden respect for Islamic law on behalf of the Americans. According to “a U.S. official,” the notion of burying the body “properly” is something to be taken with great seriousness:

    “We are ensuring that it is handled in accordance with Islamic practice and tradition,” confirmed the official. “This is something that we take very seriously. And so therefore, this is being handled in an appropriate manner.”

    The United States has presumably killed a lot of Muslims throughout the War on Terror, but I can’t really recall the troops scrambling around to ensure that all of the bodies were dealt with in accordance to Islamic law.

    It does indeed sound a little bit fishy – and convenient.

  • Cannonshop

    There are a couple thoughts on this for y’all to consider…

    How sick WAS he before he was shot? this is a guy who was on dialysis before we ever started hunting him. It could well be that, minus the hair and makeup techs, Osama-don’t-really-look-like Osama alive, and dead even less. Could also be that this may have been higher on the chain interfering out of some misplaced sympathies for CAIR and their buddy networks-BUSH had no problem showing off Saddam Hussein’s slowly-rotting, strangled corpse, but it could well be that out of sympathy for his cabinet members, Obama allowed an order to dispose of the mortal remains ‘cleanly’ as a sop to the Bin Laden Family (with whom D.C. does a lot of business), and the Saudi Royal Family (with whom we do even MORE business, plus they own the paper on a pretty big chunk of our mortgaged government.)

    The Bin Ladens are Saudi Nobility (or nobility equivalents) with blood ties to the Saudi royal house and standing that a street-thug like Saddam never had, and could never achieve in that society. these people own a bunch of our debt-paper, plus they can drop a word in the opec meeting and there goes the rest of our economy.

    A little Sensitivity to your creditors, especially when they have you by the balls, is rather likely.

  • Kenn Jacobine

    Cannonshop,

    The Saudi royal house is not a bunch of street thugs as well? Obama is also a hypocrite for talking about democracy, freedom, and human rights and then respecting a tyrannical regime like the Saudi royal family. They stone women for being raped. What respect do we owe them?

  • zingzing

    jesus christ. not even a day goes by and dan has it all figured out. do you even consider any non-nefarious reasons for burying the body the way they did? cannonshop can think of one, and there is another very probable reason: if not out of respect for bin laden’s body, out of respect for the billion muslims who just might take offense. seeing as how they can come off as just a bit touchy, it was a smart move.

    his body held no clues, it has undoubtedly been photographed and you were never going to see it anyway. nothing short of an international tour of his rotting corpse would satisfy some people…

    “Why couldn’t we have seen the body to verify the story? After all, isn’t a murder case on shaky ground without the body?”

    did you expect obama to wheel it out on national television? and do they cart the body into a court of law during a murder trial? and do you consider yourself to be the judge in this case?

    displaying a bit of critical thinking and a little patience goes a long way. photographs will be released. but they aren’t going to do it during west coast primetime television. that would just be sick. one day soon, you’ll be able to fap away to his morgue pictures. just wait.

  • Kenn Jacobine

    Zing,

    Oh, you and your blind faith in all things connected to Obama and his government. Look it up, some Muslims are upset because burying the body at sea is not considered appropriate. They won’t say if an Imam was even present. Pretty convenient too that the seals who allegedly carried out the mission are top secret and forbidden to be interviewed. And then there is the claim that the compound was heavily fortified yet the only people that ended up dead were those defending bin Laden. No one storming the compound even got injured? As to the guy who allegedly Tweeted the whole thing. He heard the copters but bin Laden’s guards didn’t? Come on. Obama thinks we are dumb to believe something this amazing sight unseen. He might be right given the sheeple that were out celebrating.

    Yes, I and all other Americans are the judges of what happened and in my opinion I am skeptical bin Laden was killed on Sunday night.

  • Cannonshop

    #4 it’s not about respect, Kenn, it’s about the fact that they’ve got us over a barrel with our economic pants around our ankles (Courtesy of the Left) and they KNOW IT.

    The difference between a ruling aristocracy, and a street gang, is that the Aristos control the Police and have international recognition, and usually have a lot more money and clout than gang members do…and they have a “Pedigree”. In the M.E. Clan and Tribal loyalties trump national loyalties, and trump international agreements. It’s a sucker-bet that Osama Bin Laden, an Aristocrat and cousin to the Saudi Royals, is going to, through his cousins, get special considerations in terms of how his mortal remains are handled us jumped-up-peasants, we don’t have a choice, they can hurt us REAL bad and break no laws doing so, and we do NOT have the ability to minimize the damage if King Fahd passes the word to bottle production or not sell to U.S. firms…while cashing in the billions upon billions of dollars of debt WE SOLD THEM.

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    I have previously stated I understood people’s skepticism but this is just sheer foolishness. If this info was revealed for political gain as you propose, why wasn’t the info released before the 2010 elections or before the 2012 when it could have benefited Obama as opposed to 18 months before the election when it will do no good?

  • Cannonshop

    #8 depends on what the objective is. Osama Dead makes it easier to pull troops out of Afghanistan and send them to Libya-a move that is much easier in an off-election year than it would be in 2012. One of the areas that the Democratic Party has been viewed as traditionally weak (particularly post-Carter) is Military Affairs (I won’t stoop to calling optional wars “Defense”). Clinton tried to look tough with cruise-missile attacks on isolated sites, and Kosovo/Bosnia, in 2004 the Democrats tried to find themselves a “Genuine War Hero” to counter Bush, (note their superior success came when they dropped that conceit in 2008 and ran a chicago politician instead), the action with Libya was clearly window-dressing to show Obama as a “Toughguy”-there’s no objective, no strategy, no goals, just ‘Action!!!’
    Afghanistan’s turned out to be a tar-baby and critics on the left have been calling for an end to the Afghanistan action. To achieve that without looking like a loser, Obama needed a ‘win’ that could justify it-esp. if he intends to drag us into another quagmire, this time in North Africa, and on behalf of the same European Interests that were shocked and ‘orrified when Bush crushed their dreams of exploiting Saddam’s Oil (for food) last decade.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I know for a fact that fellow SEALS here in Virginia Beach got phone calls the other night. I have no doubts about the demise of OBL.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    And by fellow SEALs I mean, other team members here in VB. Just so you silly B’turds don’t try to say that I might insinuate that I EVER had the nads to be a SEAL.

    And for a few of you….
    USA…USA…USA!!!

  • troll

    …where’s the beef?

    I have it on good authority that ‘the beef’ (de-boned and ground) has been flown to DC and will be served up at the next Cabinet barbecue

    btw – this is an absurd conversation

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Before actually publishing godawful silly articles like this, Kenn should have recognized that he himself has provided zero beef. His only rationale is his no-exceptions disdain for all things Obama. Not one tiny fragment of evidence…just paranoid suspicion.

  • Boeke

    The death of OBL at the instigation of Obama seems to be giving the rightists apoplexy.

  • http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/author/danmiller/ Dan(Miller)

    Conspiracy theories are frequently appealing, particularly when there is significant distrust of the principal players. However, real conspiracies involving more than a very few players are very difficult to pull off and, if pulled off, are far more difficult to conceal. The 911 conspiracy theorists considered President Bush an untrustworthy bungling fool and never managed to explain how he might have done whatever they though he had done and concealed it for years. The dust on the Osama bin Laden execution has yet to settle and if it eventually does so in ways other than those in which I expect it to, then I’ll get concerned about a possible conspiracy; it’s far too early for that.

    There may be some bases for believing that bin Laden died years ago and that his recent execution by Navy Seals was all a put up job; I haven’t seen any evidence supportive of such a belief and mere speculation based on how presently unknown facts might turn out is as cheap as it is easy.

    There are far more important questions and they deserve far more attention. Among them are whether the widespread joy at bin Laden’s demise will diminish legitimate concerns about Islamic Jihad and the ways with which it has been dealt with thus far. Bin Laden was an essentially dormant symptom of a very bad disease. Elimination of that symptom seems very unlikely to have removed any of the root causes of the disease. My principal concern at this point is that the euphoria generated by elimination of that symptom will mask the sources of the disease, prevent them from being addressed and thus allow it to continue to fester undiminished in its strength and in its danger.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://www.buddyside.com Buddy

    There was an article and video about the photos which were published, but many out there are saying they are fake.

  • zingzing

    kenn (#6, and apologies for calling you dan earlier), what makes you think the guards didn’t hear helicopters?

    “Pretty convenient too that the seals who allegedly carried out the mission are top secret and forbidden to be interviewed.”

    they aren’t going to send the army cooks in, kenn. how logical is it that our most highly trained soldiers participated in this action? pretty damn logical, isn’t it?

    “And then there is the claim that the compound was heavily fortified yet the only people that ended up dead were those defending bin Laden.”

    does “fortified” necessarily mean with people? almost 80 soldiers attacked the building. if no other enemy combatants were injured, it’s probable they just gave up. keep it simple, kenn.

    “Obama thinks we are dumb to believe something this amazing sight unseen.”

    you were never going to see it anyway. any evidence they would show you beyond letting you fondle his corpse is not enough. you’ve made up your mind. why don’t you just wait for his next video, since he’s alive… i bet obama is just praying osama can’t get it together over the next year and a half.

    “Oh, you and your blind faith in all things connected to Obama and his government.”

    i didn’t say that. the story’s a muddle right now. i believe the basic gist of it, but i know that more facts will come to light and the story will change. it’s already doing so. you, on the other hand, created your own narrative whole cloth without one bit of evidence. you’ve got everyone’s motives down, despite the gaping holes in your plot and the logical inconsistencies that don’t seem to bother you one bit.

    this story’s only a day and a half old. don’t you think you should wait a bit?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    But Kenn is, you know, an International Educator, zing. Bow down before his intellect. Or something.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    You gotta be the MOST bitter New Yorker I’ve ever met! And I’ve spent a lot of time in the city!

  • zingzing

    then it wasn’t enough, andy. come back for another visit.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I was just up there the end of March. Big trade show at the Javitts Center. Rode the train from the folks house in Tinton Falls and walked to the Center from Penn. Then, my mom, uncle and I had dinner in the Village. I’ll always love the Village, even though it’s nothing like the little italian neighborhood it was when I was a kid…some of the same restaurants are still there though!

  • zingzing

    well, the west village is the shit. lower east side/east village… ugh… so i’ll assume you’re talking about the west village. there’s a place called corner bistro right off the end of the L train where they serve incredible $6 burgers and $2.50 beers til 4 am. perfect place, if you can find a seat. it’s places like that that make nyc worth it. and the fact that you can do just about anything just about any time. whatever whim you have, it can be served. might be a pain in the ass, but fuck it.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I’m not sure which “side” of the village it was…I remember when I was a kid visiting my grandparents I used to walk down to a little park on Thompson St. Someone had painted on a wall, “West is Best, East is least”. So, it could be the West Side.

    My grandparents lived on Sullivan St. Right across from St. Anthony’s church. Man I sweated in that church tooooo many Sundays. Basically, Houston and Sullivan St. Back in the day it was ALL italian. I’ve still never figured out who says that word right, Texans or New Yorkers. Houston I mean…The bottom floor of my grandparents building was a bakery. The whole building used to smell so good! It’s a furniture store now, at least it was the last time I checked.

    This is the area of the city that I’m familiar with, streets pretty much between 6th Ave and Thompson St. (maybe a little farther) and from Spring St. to the park…Washington Square??? I think??? A lot of time up there…

  • zingzing

    augh, well. washington sq park is right on the dividing line between east and west. and thompson st runs south of the middle of washington sq park. but 6th is on the west side, as is st anthony’s, if only barely.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Then I was on the West side! Must be why I’ve always liked it so much!

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    The East Village and Lower East Side are [along with some places in Brooklyn] the current epicenter of all that is cool and trendy among twenty-somethings, especially restaurants and bars. I’m surprised to hear zing speak negatively of that nabe, but what do I know — it’s not my thing either, but I am older than he. The West Village is beautiful [some blocks] and way too expensive to live in!

  • S.T..M

    Oh, here we go … the conspiracy nuts are out already. I think Obama does this kind of stuff on purpose, just to drive the wingnuts mad.

    Gotta have a new one now that the long-form birth certificate has been spotted. Nah, they found a way to bodgy that up too.

    Nothing is real, right??

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Stan – if it’s on the internets, it’s real mate!

  • S.T..M

    Lol. G’day Andy. Congrats to your mates, those Naval commandos. They did a bloody good job.

    Another mass murderer and his twisted ideology in the dustbin of history, where he belongs.

    Good stuff.

    That’s where the beef is … in an America that can and will stand up for itself, and doesn’t need to resort to show and tell afterwards.

    It just does, and if you don’t like it, well, tough titties.

    I like it.

  • S.T..M

    BTW, I read your blog and the last column written by the retiring journo.

    Tax. Same everywhere. You can’t get away from the bastards.

    I’ve realised over the years that there’s one problem with elections.

    Whatever happens, whoever wins, you always end up with a f..king government.

    The two certainties of life: death and taxes.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    STM –

    Thanks – back when I was on active duty, everybody knew the “don’t f*** with” list, and the top three in ascending order were Chamorros, Samoans, and SEALS.

    And concerning government and taxes, I look at it this way – what would happen if there were no government, no taxes? We can rest assured it wouldn’t be the ‘libertarian paradise’ of Ayn Rand and certain BC conservatives.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena/ Irene Athena

    El Bicho, do you always sniff the air before you get on a thread to make sure you won’t be on the wrong side of a pile-on?

    I’ve never seen the LIKE. ZingZing, STM, Glenn, Andy

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena/ Irene Athena

    …the unlikeliest cohort, brought together by their shared contempt of the process of honest inquiry.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena/ Irene Athena

    *whistles for the movie critic* What the HECK was #18 about?

    HERE’s a movie for you to watch. (Interview with Benazir Bhutto; Reference to OBL’s death around minute 6)

    I’m open-minded and still trying to form an opinion. I’m willing right now to listen to arguments about how Benazir Bhutto was mistaken—but not by this bunch. Not from people who use ridicule rather than reason to try to convince me.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I’m all for honest inquiry, Irene. I have yet to see a Jacobine article that qualifies as such. He starts with a conclusion, then writes about it as if it were proven fact. He skips the, you know, evidence part.

    And I think I found the answer to your interesting Bhutto clip…see the other thread where you posted it.

  • El Bicho

    Irene, are you naturally so poorly informed or do you have to work at it?

  • Kenn Jacobine

    Guys,

    We are talking about the world’s most wanted man! Nobody requires proof that “we got him”?

    Also, the story is that the seal who confronted him asked him to surrender. If Osama was armed why didn’t he (Osama) shoot. If Osama was unarmed and of no immediate threat to his captor than why did that seal shoot him in cold blood. If he asked him to surrender, but shot him anyway why ask him to surrender?

    Also, if Osama was running the world’s leading terrorist organization, why was there no internet service at the mansion? If this is the place where bin Laden was why didn’t the seals take it to secure all the intelligence? The story is that they took 20 minutes to gather disk drives etc… This was the catch of our young century, it deserved more time and attention to meticulously pick through all ares of what we have been told is a large mansion. All I am saying is that there are a lot of questions to be answered. Obama should have provided proof that it was Osama before he allegedly discarded the corpse in the drink.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    If those are the best questions you can come up with, I’m sorry to hear it.

    Your first set of questions can be answered simply: the intention was primarily to kill him.

    Your second set of questions is also easily summed up: our operatives flew into Pakistan from Afghanistan without permission. They wanted to get out before a confrontation with Pakistani military.

    Have you actually read any detailed accounts? It doesn’t sound like it.

    Face it: you will never welcome or support any policy or action or word from the Obama administration. And that’s what this is really about for you, your unbending opposition to him.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    The lack of phone/internet is actually one of the things that got the attention of US intelligence: it is an indication of how paranoid the inhabitants were about being traced.

  • http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110504/ap_on_re_us/us_bin_laden Kenn Jacobine

    The Administration cannot even get its own story straight.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Stan #29 – I love the way you put that…no show and tell. That’s just outstanding!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Glenn – #31 – There’s a big difference between no govt and LIMITED govt. Yeah, the whole planet would be a hell hole with NO govt, but it’d be a much better place if govt knew it’s place!

  • Clavos

    Whatever happens, whoever wins, you always end up with a f..king government.

    True.

    Unfortunately.

  • Baronius

    Irene, please count me among the people who reject this article as utter lunacy. This isn’t honest inquiry; it’s bat ****. Where’s the beef in this “inquiry”? Kenn’s evidence is his belief that he has a right to see a body, and a paragraph beginning with “anyway, here is what I think might be the truth”. There’s no honesty or inquisitiveness in this “honest inquiry”.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    The operation only happened Sunday afternoon. If everyone were robotically parroting identical accounts already, that might actually be more evidence of a coverup story.

    79 debriefs of soldiers, plus the accounts of those who watched via satellite hookup — it would be surprising if there weren’t inconsistencies. The administration could have clamped down tighter on information release — but the fact that they haven’t is a sign of transparency, of trying to get the info out, perhaps too hurriedly.

    As for photos, think of the impact of an extremely gory corpse image all over TV and the internet. The hesitance is understandable. I imagine they will overcome this hesitance to satisfy people like you. Who will of course never be satisfied — you will immediately claim, again without evidence, that it’s photoshopped.

  • Baronius

    Handy – Of course OBL was killed. The question is, why did the aliens and the 12 secret banking families that control Europe (and are probably Jewish) let the CIA kill OBL?

  • Kenn Jacobine

    Who produced the gory corpse? The administration should have thought through that before authorizing shooting bin Laden in the face. We have a right to see the body to verify the president’s story.

    Besides, story is that the seal shot an unarmed man. Whether he was bin Laden or not isn’t that a violation of the Geneva Conventions? Or is our thirst for vengeance so great that the commonly agreed upon rules of civility don’t apply to us anymore.

    Additionally, how much more use Osama would have been alive giving us all sorts of additional intelligence before we tried, executed, and buried him in a landfill.

    If George W. Bush had attempted the same stunt the same people that are ridiculing me would be claiming the same thing I am of Obama. And I would have written a similar article about Bush. It is amazing how partisanship overrules reason.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    BUSH had no problem showing off Saddam Hussein’s slowly-rotting, strangled corpse

    That wasn’t Bush, it was the Iraqi administration that replaced Saddam.

    Sure, Bush didn’t do anything to restrain them, but why would you expect Obama to handle a similar situation in the exact same way?

    Also, Saddam was a secular Arab who only showed piety when it suited his purposes to do so. Osama was deeply religious – fanatically and genocidally so, yes, but nonetheless…

    Also Obama, with first-hand experience of living in a Muslim society, should be expected to have a little more consideration for Islamic burial traditions than his had-never-been-out-of-the-country-before-he-became-president predecessor. (I emphasize a little because the burial at sea might be intended as a subtle middle finger to Osama’s supporters, being as how it’s not strictly speaking an acceptable form of burial.)

    Transporting the body to a ship does seem a bit odd, considering how far Abbottabad is from the ocean, but perhaps taking it to Afghanistan was considered too dangerous.

  • Zedd

    You have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Not sure how seeing one of a google of enemies of this country’s dead body fits into that.

    Lets make THINKING a priority. Lets hold each other accountable for using our minds effectively. You didn’t think about all of the things that people could punch holes in your article about before you published it, thusly it is stupid. Yes you had a thought but that’s not good enough. You have a responsibility to process your thoughts and assess if they are sound based on all of the information that you have access to. You cant just feel something and publish it into the universe as if it has legitimacy and deserves consideration by other THINKING people.

    I’d like to challenge you and all of us to start THINKING more before we send stuff out into the world. Lets work on extinguishing stupid. Lets bury the Stupid American. Are you in?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    You can’t have it both ways: claiming he’s not dead [or that he has been dead for years], and claiming he was killed ‘unethically.’ Your interest is less in the truth and more in discrediting the president. Deny it all you like.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    WH has announced the photos will remain classified.

  • Zedd

    The thing that Saddam and Osama have in common is that they are from the Islamic world. THINK please!!!

    Saddam was a leader of a nation. Osama is a criminal who was hiding out illegally in a foreign country from international law enforcement operatives. Just because they are both Arabs doesn’t mean that they are the same people and that how they should be dealt with is the same. THINK please!

    How many people do the special forces kill? Do you know? What about Interpol or the CIA? How many of their bodies have you seen? Just because you know this one’s name and the crime that he performed, doesn’t give YOU any “rights” (as you suggested). THINK.

  • Baronius

    In 1974, the US recovered a sunken Soviet submarine from the bottom of the Pacific Ocean. There were 6 corpses in the sub. The CIA buried them at sea in a full Soviet-style ceremony, under the flag of the Soviet Navy, playing the Soviet national anthem. The formal burial wasn’t done for propaganda purposes; in fact, the US never confirmed the incident until 1990. So the idea of a respectful formal ceremony for an enemy isn’t far-fetched.

    The mission was known as Project Azorian. It was the inspiration for The Hunt for Red October.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Zedd –

    Why should they THINK when they’re having so much fun finding any excuse they can to HATE the (black) guy in the White House?

  • zingzing

    irene, i am not against honest inquiry. that’s ridiculous. i’m against silly shit like the following:

    kenn: “Also, if Osama was running the world’s leading terrorist organization, why was there no internet service at the mansion?”

    are you insane? you can’t think of a reason why he wouldn’t have internet service? come on, man. (and do you really even believe the mansion existed in the first place? what you believe and don’t believe is getting rather confusing right about now.)

    “We have a right to see the body to verify the president’s story.”

    i can’t believe you just wrote that sentence. you want them to parade the body around… for fuck’s sake.

    “It is amazing how partisanship overrules reason.”

    it is, isn’t it?

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    You know, I’m with most of you on the entire need to see deal. There do seem to be a lot of “doubting Thomas'” so to speak…but WTF Glenn!?! You guys need to shove that race card where the sun don’t shine!

    Can’t you face the fact that some people, hell!, a lot of people don’t like the way this guy is running our country and it has not one fucking thing to do with the color of his skin!!!!

  • zingzing

    andy, ask many of those same people for a specific complaint and they’ll either parrot some ridiculous shit they heard on fox news or they’ll just stare blankly. a lot of the people yelling about obama this and obama that don’t know shit.

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    Not sure there’s a point in refuting Kenn since he ignores most serious challenges to his ridiculous contentions (still waiting to hear why Obama didn’t save this for his Oct surprise) but this was too obvious to skip:

    “if Osama was running the world’s leading terrorist organization, why was there no internet service at the mansion?”

    All the experts I’ve heard talk about it over the years have spoken about Al Queda being franchised out, so there is no massive organization to run. But presuming Kenn is right and everyone else is wrong, it’s very easy to believe OBL wouldn’t have internet access. I’ve heard stories about mobsters refusing to use phones, so yes, it’s believable.

    “our operatives flew into Pakistan from Afghanistan without permission.”

    You don’t know that to be true, Handy. Pakistan may well have granted permission. With the billions in aid they receive and how chaotic the country is alleged to be, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were more helpful then anyone lets on but needed the official story to provide cover.

    “We have a right to see the body to verify the president’s story.”

    Thought you were a committed Constitution guy, Kenn? Where does that right appear?

    Now I do agree with you that it would have been better to capture and put him on trial and interrogate him but then I wasn’t going to get him, so it was out of my hands.

    Andy’s right, Glenn. You need to stop projecting your racism onto others. It’s rather ridiculous.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Andy –

    Yeah, a lot of people don’t like how Obama’s running the WH, sure. And it doesn’t matter how many times I’ve said it, most BC conservatives think I’m lying when I say there’s quite a few actions of his that I strongly disagree with.

    And as I’ve posted many times before that most Republicans and conservatives are good and nice people who honestly try to NOT be racist.

    BUT you should bear in mind that yes, there ARE many in the Republican party that are still racist. Look up Nixon’s “Southern Strategy” sometime…and the poll this past March that showed that forty-six percent of ALL Republicans in MS still think that interracial marriage should be banned. And then there’s MS governor Haley Barbour – the former RNC chair – who said that racism “wasn’t that bad” in Yazoo City in the 1960’s. Being from the MS Delta, from ground zero for racism in America, I know better and could expound upon the implications of that, but I’ll leave the possible extrapolations to you.

    In other words, just as it would be wrong of me to use a broad brush paint all Republicans and conservatives with a scarlet ‘R’ for racism, it’s also wrong to deny the very real and significant presence of racists within the Republican party…and with there being such a significant presence, it is therefore undeniable that racists and their racism DO have a noticeable effect on the Republican party.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    I’ve just got back from a trip to Tennessee and one thing that surprised me was the number of black and white people socializing, dating and generally getting along with each other as if it were no big deal (which it isn’t).

    It’s not only the complete antithesis of my previous perception of the South, but it’s also something that quite frankly you just don’t see all that much of in California.

    (The other thing I learned was that when a Tennesseean gets behind the wheel of a car, it’s best to get the hell out of the way. Preferably into the next state.)

  • troll

    racism…?

    I am confirmed – if we never have another white guy as Pres it will be too soon…look at the mess Obama’s made and he’s only half white

    we at Citizens Against Intraracial Procreation have a plan to combat the disease

  • Baronius

    Dread, I remember a friend who could “just tell” that Southerners were racist after a road trip to Florida. She didn’t see anything wrong, but she could tell. I think it’s a Northerner’s subconscious reaction to the accent. They associate it with movie stereotypes of racists. I don’t know if a Brit would do the same thing, but I’d be curious to know where your perception of Southern racism comes from.

    Also – just so I don’t post a comment to this article that doesn’t make fun of how dumb it is – may I note again, this article is dumb.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    All Californians think everyone else drives poorly. I grew up in Tennessee and have lived in Massachusetts, and Nashville drivers have nothing on Boston drivers in terms of aggressive nuttiness.

  • troll

    Baronius – I relish this…we are in agreement!

  • zingzing

    “I think it’s a Northerner’s subconscious reaction to the accent. They associate it with movie stereotypes of racists.”

    is that your scientific opinion? sigh. i think your theory is a little hokey. and based on anecdotal “evidence,” which is probably more than a bit silly. you might want to look into a little thing called “history” if you want a more complete picture of why northerners might think southerners suspect. i wouldn’t put it down to pure accent. that would assume random stupidity on the part of the northerner, which i doubt is your aim.

    just as in anywhere else, there’s plenty of racism in the south, and there are plenty people who don’t give a fuck about race. (i’m southern, remember.) anywhere where people of different races spend a significant portion of their day around each other, they will get along together and there will be racism. such is the nature of society.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Me: “our operatives flew into Pakistan from Afghanistan without permission.”

    El B: You don’t know that to be true, Handy. Pakistan may well have granted permission.

    Well obviously neither of us knows. But your statement is conjecture and mine was drawn from news accounts:

    “Pakistani officials have been angered by a widely reported assertion by the C.I.A. director, Leon E. Panetta, that Washington did not share advance knowledge of the raid with Pakistan because it might have leaked, allowing Bin Laden to escape.” [NY Times, this morning]

    I agree it’s possible that this is a cover story, but there is no specific evidence at this point for saying it is.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    It is indeed quite rare for Baronius, troll, zing, El B and myself to have more or less the same critical reaction to an article. Congratulations to Kenn for uniting us in short-lived bipartisan fuzzy warmth.

  • Clavos

    Dread, I remember a friend who could “just tell” that Southerners were racist after a road trip to Florida.

    And Florida is not even a southern state philosophically. Taken as a whole, it’s as northern as NY. There are pockets of Crackers (the panhandle, agricultural areas in the middle, e.g.), but the metro areas are pretty much northern.

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    “Well obviously neither of us knows. But your statement is conjecture and mine was drawn from news accounts”

    If you don’t know, why make declarations to Kenn like they are facts? Besides, regurgitating something from the NYT doesn’t make it any more factual. Did you miss Judy Miller’s coverage about Iraq?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    I don’t know if a Brit would do the same thing, but I’d be curious to know where your perception of Southern racism comes from.

    Mainly from my knowledge of history, as well as assorted accounts drawn from various sources.

    Movies also, possibly, to some extent, although most films which deal with Southern racism are set in the past.

    I note also that Tennessee isn’t exactly the deepest of the Deep South – it’s actually fairly liberal, especially in Nashville and Memphis – so the persistently extreme racism Glenn, for example, describes in rural Mississippi may represent an equal reality in some areas, as may the attitudes of dinosaurs like David Duke.

    (I mean it about the drivers, though: I’ve never seen more lack of awareness of one’s surroundings, even in Rome.)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    but the metro areas are pretty much northern.

    Not Miami, surely – one of the largest cities in Latin America?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    You seem to think it is a requirement to throw in a dollop of gratuitous nastiness [bichiness?] with every comment. Since neither Kenn, you, myself, or anyone else commenting here has firsthand knowledge of any news story we’re discussing, your pissy putdown could apply equally to all of us. We’re all ‘making declarations like they are facts.’ This particular factoid was not exclusively reported in the Times, and you probably know it. Such purposeless pettiness.

  • Boeke

    56-Andy:

    Can’t you face the fact that some people, hell!, a lot of people don’t like the way this guy is running our country and it has not one fucking thing to do with the color of his skin!!!!”

    And that’s why you keep talking it up.

  • Baronius

    Dread – I’m reminded of Dave Berry’s comment that the average automotive speed in Miami is 40 mph. 49% of the cars are going 80 mph, 49% are going 2 mph, and 2% are driving in reverse.

    The whole South=racist assumption drives me crazy because of the implication that North=non-racist. From what I’ve seen, Southern towns have gotten used to black/white encounters for at least a century longer than Northern towns, meaning that Detroit has fresher wounds than Atlanta in matters of race relations.

    I think my friend “discovered” racism in Georgia, on the drive down.

    And, once again, allow me to note that this article is nonsense.

  • zingzing

    is dave berry still around? (speaking of nonsense articles.)

  • Clavos

    It’s Dave Barry, and yes, he’s still around, still as funny (and perceptive) as ever.

    And Doc #71: Of course, you’re right; not only one of the largest, but the repository of most of LatAm’s money.

  • S.T..M

    EB: “I wouldn’t be surprised if they were more helpful then anyone lets on but needed the official story to provide cover”.

    Bingo, EB. “We’ve helped you, but we can’t be seen to be helping you on more than a superficial level.” Pakistan has suffered hugely from islamic fundamentalist terrorism … more than all of our countries combined, in fact. Governing modern-day Pakistan seems like a juggling act that involves trying to keep everyone at least onside and not blowing things up, if not neccessarily happy. You drop one orange and the rest go too.

    Doc: “(I mean it about the drivers, though: I’ve never seen more lack of awareness of one’s surroundings, even in Rome.)”

    C’mon Doc, you must have been to Chinatown when you were visiting in Sydney, or at least in one of the dozens of neighbourhoods our many new Chinese immigrants now call home.

    Taking your life in your hands there, mate.

    Whenever I’m behind a Mercedes, a Camry, a Lexus or one of those Honda Accords, and it looks like no one’s actually driving it, I give it a very wide berth.

    Considering I use the Pacific Highway every day to drive to work through suburbs that are now extensively populated by mainland Chinese immigrants (most of the north shore from Chatswood up), it has the potential to be a crash-up derby 24/7.

    My son thinks I’m racist, but it’s not about people of Asian background, rather about new – or new-ish – immigrants.

    Considering my last four car smashes in the past five years (I’ve only had five bingles in 35 years) have been a) not my fault and b) with people of Chinese background doing idiotic things behind the wheel (or not behind the wheel, in one case; actually no one was driving it as it careered down the hill outside our place), I think I have some personal experience to draw from.

    Some people just shouldn’t be allowed behind the wheel.

    Not racism, just bitter experience. I’ve been to the south of the US, Doc.

    It was infinitely better driving wise.

  • STM

    Zing, the one thing I found disappointing in NYC was the time it shuts up shop. I’m used to 24-hour licensing and places open 24/7 but there wasn’t much happening after 3am and it was billed as “the city thast never sleeps”.

    I’m here to tell you most of it is in bed by midnight, even on a weekend. Some of it playfully stays up till 2, the naughty children are up till 3 and the reprobates till 4. The complete reprobates like me don’t want to go to bed at all.

    One day I’ll tell you the story of “how cricket saved my life in NYC” … at a diner next to the housing projects, not far from Chelsea.

  • zingzing

    ah, well… bars go until 4 am here these days, and some clubs are open far later (although i think they’re not supposed to sell alcohol after 4… although as far as i can tell they keep on selling alcohol and they’ll sometimes allow you to start smoking inside as well once it gets late enough). and there are plenty of 24/7 restaurants and bodegas that’ll sell you whatever your heart desires whenever it burbles up said desires.

    manhattan has lost a bit of its edge and is a little too clean for me in spots, but brooklyn, queens and some spots in manhattan will flout the law if it means paying customers. (and in a city this size, the law usually has something better to do.)

    not sure when you were last here or if you ever got out of the amusement park that is manhattan, but in brooklyn these days, nyc earns its billing. except mondays.

  • STM

    Yep, I’ve been to Brooklyn and most of the other bits outside Manhattan. In fact, I was at a loft apartment party in Brooklyn the night of the aforesaid “cricket saved my loife while I was having a leak in the dunny at the Chelsea diner” incident.

    I didn’t know they played cricket in NYC up to that point. In a moment, as soon as one guy recognised my accent, it went from being potentially very ugly for me and my friends to me being invited to Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx the next day to play on their cricket team (and my friends to watch, drink and eat).

    ‘Mazing stuff. Who woulda thought??

  • Lemmie

    The U. S. military did not parade Saddam’s body around. That was done by the Iraqis.

    Osama is dead.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    manhattan has lost a bit of its edge and is a little too clean for me in spots

    Well, yes, but it has forever endeared itself to me. There are many reasons for this, but the particular one that comes to mind right now is the municipal sign on a Fifth Avenue lamppost that says “Don’t Even Think About Parking Here”.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I used to joke, based on real experience, that whenever New Yorkers visit another city, they always have the same two comments:

    “It was so…clean.
    And the people were so…nice.”

    And neither was intended as a compliment.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    That’s funny Handy…makes me think of a line from American Psycho, when the bad guy gives a date a urinal cake dipped in chocolate in a Godiva box…she takes a bite…then a second and says…it tastes so….minty! Sounds to me just like…they were so….nice!

  • STM

    Lol.

    You blokes are rockin’.

    Doc, what about those signs on Aussie highways: “Speedo check, 1km”.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Nah, Stan, the most fascinating thing about Aussies is not their road signs but their predilection for putting full-sized vehicles on the roofs of buildings. Notably, there’s the Ettamogah Pub near Brisbane (now a chain, I believe?), but I also recall a horse-drawn wagon in Kuranda and a VW Type 2 camper van in Launceston, among others.

  • zingzing

    anyway… so they’re not going to release the photos at this point. that’s just dumb. if more americans saw just what war does to people, maybe we wouldn’t be so gung ho about it. i want to see bin laden’s brains, and i want to see american brains splattered every which way. maybe then we’d stop being such dicks.

  • Kenn Jacobine

    The president says he doesn’t want to inflame resentment against us by releasing the pictures. Shooting an unarmed man, dumping his body in the sea, and young Americans celebrating in the streets chanting U.S.A! that is not inflaming resentment enough? What is the difference if he releases those photos? The damage is already done. Maybe there are no photos or it wasn’t bin Laden? The administration has changed multiple parts of the story so many times.

    The problem on this thread is that folks are willing to defend Obama solely on partisan grounds. It is not like presidents haven’ t lied to us in the past – Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, WMD’s and Iraq. OBL was the most wanted man in the world. Like the display of John Dillenger’s body after he was finally gunned down, we should have been given the ability to verified OBL death. Perhaps a team of trusted observers could have been used?

  • Jordan Richardson

    The account has changed again to report that only one out of the five people killed was armed. Originally the government described it as a firefight, but that story has changed considerably as the SEALs now only exchanged fire with one shooter.

    Word is that the one shooter was the courier Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti. He was in the guest house and fired on the SEALs as soon as they entered the compound. After that, nobody fired on the SEALs. OBL was apparently shot while he appeared to “lunge toward a weapon.”

  • Clavos

    I’m glad OBL is dead, and I don’t really care how he died, except that I hope it was as horrendous for him as it was for the innocents in the Twin Towers, but Kenn makes a very good point in 88.

  • Clavos

    And in the article.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    The photos haven’t been destroyed. It’s possible they could be released at a later time. Obama’s stated reason — he doesn’t want to display a gruesome pic as a ‘trophy’ — is convincing to me.

    Kenn ignores the fact that several commenters of varying political stripes have criticized the recklessness of this article, and especially its own lack of ‘beef.’ The article itself is all partisan suspicion, no substance.

    The White House was at first rather undisciplined about information flow, letting out stories before they had been vetted. Yesterday they clamped down on further release of details. No doubt this will fuel conspiracists further…but really, who cares about conspiracists anyway? They are annoying, but they don’t really matter much.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I thought I saw pics of others that were killed in the compound. I don’t understand that part of it. Why release some and not others?

    But I like what I heard Jon Stewart say…they’re airdropping the pics into an affluent Pakistani suburb…the pics won’t be found for a years!

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Perhaps Mr. Stewart was, you know, making a yoke. He has been known to do that occasionally.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    From the AP just a few minutes ago:

    Al-Qaida confirmed the killing of Osama bin Laden Friday and vowed revenge, saying Americans’ “happiness will turn to sadness” in the first statement by the terror network since its leader was slain in a U.S. commando raid against his Pakistani hideout.

    Perhaps they were in on the US’s death-faking plot.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Really? Stewart’s a comedian? You mean I shouldn’t be getting my news from him? Holy mackeral! You mean it wasn’t a joke about not being able to find OBL in an affluent Pakistani neighborhood for years?

    If I only knew…hopefully, someday, I’ll be as smart as you!!!

  • Clavos

    Only if you become a liberal, Andy…

  • Kenn Jacobine

    Handyguy,

    #95- So because Al Qaeda has corroborated Obama’s story makes it true? You seem to want to believe anyone as long as it supports your cherished beliefs.

    Americans’ “happiness will turn to sadness” is proof that the damage has already been done. He should release the photos.

  • Baronius

    “You seem to want to believe anyone as long as it supports your cherished beliefs.”

    Kenn, you seem to be willing to make up a story without any facts to support it, just so you don’t go along with the official version. While you and I differ on some things, I’ve always been able to grant that you’re honest and do your research. But after this article, how can I? Even if you turned out to be completely right, I couldn’t trust your articles any more because you appear to be more motivated by suspicions than by reason and evidence.

    And Clavos, for the life of me I can’t find a decent point that Kenn’s made.

  • zingzing

    kenn: “The problem on this thread is that folks are willing to defend Obama solely on partisan grounds. It is not like presidents haven’ t lied to us in the past – Gulf of Tonkin, Watergate, WMD’s and Iraq.”

    you ignoring something here kenn. why would obama lie? why? osama, if he’s alive, could simply disprove it.

    “So because Al Qaeda has corroborated Obama’s story makes it true?”

    does it hurt his story in any way? again, why? why would they support his story if it were false?

    things usually have reasons. i don’t think you’ve even given “reason” any thought at all at this point.

  • zingzing

    but i do think they should just release the photos and be done with it. (like i said, i wish our wars were documented far better, with more graphic evidence of their brutality for everyone in america to see.)

    of course, i’d be surprised if that would be enough for you, given how partisan you’ve become over this issue and any other issue that has the slightest whiff of obama on it.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Sorry, Andy, I misread your comment and typed my response too hastily — sort of like the White House press office has been doing this week! Anyhow, Stewart is often more insightful when he’s being facetious than many TV anchors are when they are dead serious.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Al Qaeda’s press release doesn’t in itself ‘prove’ anything. But it is one more puzzle piece that makes any scenario in which OBL is still alive [or even that he was already dead] that much harder to construct credibly.

    To quote a cliche, when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras.

  • http://cinemasentries.com/ El Bicho

    They released video and photos of the moon landing yet not everyone believes that happened.

    “You seem to want to believe anyone as long as it supports your cherished beliefs.”

    rather ironic

  • S.T..M

    Doc: “Nah, Stan, the most fascinating thing about Aussies is not their road signs but their predilection for putting full-sized vehicles on the roofs of buildings”.

    What about our legion of “BIG” things dotted around the place … the big pineapple, the big marino, the giant prawn, the big banana, etc etc.

    Someone’s managed to write about them and fill of whole book with photos of them.

    Nothing like driving through a gazillion miles of nothing but eucalypt and shrub or red dirt and dust, then suddenly coming across a giant-sized banana or a massive fibreglass cockatoo smiling at you on the side of the road (“Squaark … who’s the idiot?”).

    Because my country was essentially founded on a completely insane idea (Why don’t we send all our bad people to a new “colony” on the other side of the planet, which in the late 1700s might as well have been the moon), I love the idea that we are still mad enough to do these kinds of ridiculous things … and celebrate it.

  • S.T..M

    Kenn: “Perhaps a team of trusted observers could have been used?”

    What, one the mission. Nah, they’d just f.ck it up.

    On the way back? Nah, not enough room on the helicopters. Not a picnic anyway .. who needs extra baggage?

    On the ship? Hell yes! There was a whole ship full of trusted observers, not to mention the actually dudes who carried out the strike, and those who consigned Mr Bin Liner’s body to the deep.

    Why release pictures and further inflame already inflamed tensions? Even Kenn must see the sense in the idea of not wanting to see more American dead.

    Maybe not …

  • http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/ Kenn Jacobine

    Did some of you even read my article? I wrote that I believe Osama died years ago in bombings. I should have also mentioned his poor kidneys. Click on my name for a link to another article which could indicate that Obama is trying to pull the biggest scam since the election of George W Bush in 2000. Before you say, “oh those are just a bunch of foreigners” notice Madeleine Albright is on the list. But, again this won’t fit your narrative and instead of offering proof otherwise you’ll just ridicule the source.

  • zingzing

    good god, kenn. alex jones?

    “Osama’s dead corpse has been on ice for nearly a decade and that his “death” would only be announced at the most politically expedient time.”

    how is this “the most politically expedient time”? wouldn’t that be about a year from now? this is the WORST time to announce it. people will forget within a few months. the media will move on. al qaeda has plenty of time to hit back.

    “But, again this won’t fit your narrative and instead of offering proof otherwise you’ll just ridicule the source.”

    if your source is a noted conspiracy theorist and your “proof” claims that the bush admin sat on his death throughout his presidency, never seeing an opportunity to use it, well…

    come on, kenn. you’ve lost it.

    what factual basis do you have for your narrative? please answer that question. if you can’t come up with anything other than conjecture and alex jones, please, please, please take a look at yourself.

  • http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/ Kenn Jacobine

    Zing,

    Do you have a reading disability? Of course, as I predicted you would simply ridicule the source. Forget Alex Jones, focus on who made the statements. Again, My article was about the “possibility” of Obama’s tale being a fraud (the same thing Albright accused Bush of) for political gain. But, I suppose Obama hasn’t enjoyed the 11 point jump in his approval rating he got overnight as a result of his story!

  • zingzing

    so, mr. “reading disability,” HOW is this the most “politically expedient time”?

    (and yeah, i’m sorry, but alex jones will get you nowhere.)

    “But, I suppose Obama hasn’t enjoyed the 11 point jump in his approval rating he got overnight as a result of his story!”

    what real good does that do him NOW? the election is still 18 months away. if a bump in his approval rating was his nefarious goal for such a story, why wouldn’t he wait til just before the election?

    and why didn’t bush use it if albright is correct?

    and why do you put “possibility” in quotes at this point? beginning to doubt it?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I notice that the three loudest BC skeptics of the May 1 raid are all Ron Paul supporters. Dr. Paul apparently does not share their disbelief, although he has reiterated his opposition to our monetary aid to Pakistan.

  • http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/ Kenn Jacobine

    It does Obama a great deal of good. As the campaign gets started he has taken a huge criticism of him by Republicans away – that he is weak on terrorism.

  • zingzing

    and it gives them plenty of time to come up with other stuff. if they were going to criticize him on that, why didn’t he let them do so deep into the campaign, knowing full well he could ram this down their throat, then spring this “lie” when it really would do him some good? why would he play his trump card right at the beginning of the race?

    this is not the most “politically expedient” time to do this, and you know it. you’re stretching your point to fit into your fictitious narrative.

    by the way, the taliban supposedly confirmed his death yesterday as well. and video tapes of osama that were gathered from inside the compound were also released. although i guess all of this could be lies piled upon lies. seems like obama is certainly making his lie very complex, which would make it much harder to control. doesn’t sound that smart. in fact, it sounds implausibly stupid.

  • zingzing

    “At two points during the footage released by the United States government on Saturday, Bin Laden appeared to click away immediately when the news broadcasts he was watching showed footage of President Obama. – Robert Mackey”

    i’m sure these videos were faked, right, kenn?

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I can’t help but giggle at CNN showing over and over a clip with a caption: “Videos Show Bin Laden Watching Himself on TV.” The absurdities of 24-hour cable news.

  • zingzing

    we’re watching him watching him on the news on the news.

  • http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/ Kenn Jacobine

    How do you know when and where the videos were shot? Who shot the video of him watching TV? Why were they shot? Come on, the Feds are going to have to do better than that.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/irene-athena/ Irene Athena

    #111 Maybe that means that libertarians are less likely than members of other parties to rely on Political Talking Point scripts when they post their opinions on message boards. My own loud protests were aimed at the use of ridicule, rather than reason, as a persuasive strategy. This thread is actually a lot more interesting now that people are actually exchanging ideas, rather spicily served up, of course, instead of pure insults.

  • zingzing

    oh, kenn… figured as much. like a brick.

    anyway, what does obama’s presence (as president no less,) in the videos do to your “he’s been dead since 2002″ schtick? do you suggest that those videos have been doctored to include brief images of obama so it appears they are much more recent than they really are?

    really, what will it take to convince you? or will you stick to your partisan guns regardless of the evidence mounting?

  • zingzing

    “Who shot the video of him watching TV? Why were they shot?”

    even terrorists can make home movies. he had his family there. who knows? maybe they were making videos to show the grandkids their grandpappy? maybe it’s pure vanity. i’m sure he was interested in how he was portrayed in the media. that was a main source of power and influence. it’s obviously not something he wanted getting out to the rest of the world (hence the lack of beard dye), so it’s probably just a candid home video.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    Kenn: he has taken a huge criticism of him by Republicans away – that he is weak on terrorism.

    As far as I can recall, Obama has never said or done anything to suggest that Republicans are right about this, other than that he is A Democrat, and as we all know Democrats are, without exception, Weak On Terror. They have to sign a pledge when they fill out their membership application.

    If Obama were to parachute alone into an al-Qaeda compound in Afghanistan, single-handedly machine-gun all of the terrorists in residence there, retrieve every single piece of useful intelligence in the place, blow up the compound and walk away (never looking back, of course) towards his waiting black helicopter, Republicans would still say that he was Weak On Terror on the grounds that he had neglected to nuke the continent on which the compound was located.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/dr-dreadful/ Dr Dreadful

    zingzing: anyway, what does obama’s presence (as president no less,) in the videos do to your “he’s been dead since 2002″ schtick?

    If you look very closely at the videos, you can just about make out Jack Bauer sitting underneath bin Laden’s defrosted-specially-for-the-occasion corpse, moving his arms and legs.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    I actually take comfort in knowing that “the feds” have no interest whatsoever in convincing Kenn and other concrete-skulled people of anything at all. I’m certainly happy to give up trying. It’s a pointless task.

  • http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/ Kenn Jacobine

    You guys are comical. How do we know the man in the video is Osama? We never see a full shot of his face. Is it not possible he is a double? There are a lot of things one can do with videos an pictures for that matter. The big issue for me was discarding of the body before independent verification was done. In any event, even if it is true that Obama just killed Osama nothing has changed. We are still going to bomb Pakistan, and continue endless wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Well, that covers just about every base, then: it’s a hoax unless it’s not, and it doesn’t matter anyway.

    Thanks for your valuable contributions to world knowledge, Mr International Educator.

  • zingzing

    “You guys are comical. How do we know the man in the video is Osama? We never see a full shot of his face. Is it not possible he is a double? There are a lot of things one can do with videos an pictures for that matter.”

    nothing will please you. nothing. sure looks like him, but whatever, maybe some state dept stooge set up this really inane video of “bin laden” watching his own news reports on tv. maybe that’s the best thing this nefarious gov’t could come up with. maybe they are incredibly dumb, totally incompetent, and woefully uncreative. and maybe they’ll turn the country into a communist dictatorship by being complete idiots. i would hope our eventual overlords could come up with something better and more dramatically satisfactory for you, kenn, but that’s just not how things are shaping up.

    “The big issue for me was discarding of the body before independent verification was done.”

    what’s to say it wasn’t? i’m sure they didn’t consult the taliban or al qaeda, but they seem pretty convinced (unless they’re in on it, the sneaky devils). maybe france or sweden or mexico or one of those countries you trust could have stepped in? the un? wait, wait… there’s no one out there you’d trust at this point, is there? trust no one.

    “In any event, even if it is true that Obama just killed Osama nothing has changed. We are still going to bomb Pakistan, and continue endless wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Libya.”

    that may be true. but you obviously see no way out either. it is the quagmire al qaeda said it would be. and it’s fitting right in with their strategy. yay usa!

  • zingzing

    oh, i did forget that alex jones (or at least some writer on his website) claims that al qaeda was created by the cia. so maybe they are in on it. never discount a theory.

  • Clavos

    That’s why Pablo calls it Al Ciada…

  • Kenn Jacobine

    Again, it’s not Alex Jones that is important but the quotes from pretty famous people that would be in the know. As I predicted you can only ridicule the source which is all you are really good at.

  • zingzing

    kenn, it’s alex jones quoting people. it doesn’t matter if he quoted jesus reporting from the cross, it’s still fucking alex jones. he’s a conspiracy theorist. if you quote his site to someone who thinks his site is junk, you’re just not going to get too far.

    it’s not that all i can do is ridicule the source, it’s that you should go and find a different, more reliable source because quoting him just makes you look like a raving lunatic. or at least someone that listens to raving lunatics.

    find a respected journalist who reported on this. find anyone but alex jones. sorry, but you’re just hitting your head against a wall. and you’re looking more silly each time you pound it into that wall.

  • Lyn926

    Kenn

    He is not dead
    In medicine no body is destroyrd in such a short time
    Dont believe

  • Enigma

    osama and Obama-
    Check out the spelling of their names
    Is there really a difference?

  • Clavos

    Here comes the tin foil brigade…

  • zingzing

    oh, clavos. you missed the obvious comeback that enigma rolled out for you:

    “Is there really a difference?”

    bs.

    that is quite an exception to the “there’s never a dumb question” rule. which means it’s really not worth answering, but when you get such a pretty red carpet, you just want to take a little stroll.

  • Kenn Jacobine

    zing #130 See there are these things in digital articles called hyperlinks and when you click on them they take you to other sites and sources. Some of those links in the Alex Jones piece will take you to sites I am sure you respect like CNN and one that carries the David Frost Show. This indicates another issue with most Americans believing Obama’s story site unseen – most of my countrymen rely on the MSM for there news. Can you give me just one example of anybody in that sector questioning that the event may have been fraudulent. I guess not, because like Helen Thomas they would be fired for even suggesting that the corporate and therefore government line could be even remotely wrong. What I am saying is we have been duped so many times in the past that we need to consult other sources for our news if only to corroborate the stories of MSM. MSM is always one sided.

  • metallica

    “See there are these things in digital articles called hyperlinks…”

    no need to get condescending. link to those then. i’m sure you can do that. you should have done that to begin with.

    “Can you give me just one example of anybody in that sector questioning that the event may have been fraudulent.”

    you’re kidding, right? does fox news count? and others are covering the controversy.

    “What I am saying is we have been duped so many times in the past that we need to consult other sources for our news if only to corroborate the stories of MSM.”

    sure, but don’t go for a known conspiracy theorist. he’ll latch onto anything.

    it is weird how those who actually have a reputation to uphold (unlike jones, whose reputation would be ruined if he acted sane for a day,) are rather wary of the unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. media was in the room when the videos were released, and although they were told not to talk too much about the other videos, they viewed them.

    now. just for a minute think what kind of scoop it would be for the media, knowing what they know, to proclaim none of this is real and we’re all being told a lie. do you think for a second that the obama admin has the ENTIRE MEDIA in his pocket? even fox news?

    you’re saying that the media, the mainstream media, as big as it is, does not have one whistleblower in its entire population?

    now that’s a conspiracy. god damn, man, i’ve held a press pass before, and i tell you, it wouldn’t take much money to impress me. you don’t get paid all that well in the press. they must all have electrodes tied to their nuts or something. i know that if i knew something to be false, i’d be crowing all about it.

    so there must be something else behind this media blackout on the TRUTH. if it’s not money or torture, it’s got to be sex. everyone in the press is getting laid tonight, motherfuckers! happpy mottheres dayyyy!

  • zingzing

    whoop. that was me. the metallica thing is just left over from making a bit of fun on eb’s thread about some has-been metal bands. (i like metal. and dave mustaine is a hell of a guitar player. but shit.)

  • http://www.RoseDigitalMarketing.com Christopher Rose

    Lyn926: In case you are not already aware of this, please take on board that commenting under more than one name could get you banned from the site.

    Christopher Rose
    Blogcritics Comments Editor

  • Kenn Jacobine

    zing or metallica or whoever you are?

    As I asked on another thread, how long does it take to do a DNA test? I’ve read 3 to 5 days. An 8 hour rush job is possible but probably not anywhere near Pakistan or Afghanistan. Is it possible that they caught him, killed him, transported his body to a facility that had the technology and prepared to release the news via presidential address all in the same short time period of the event? I think this also pushes logic.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Kenn – you using Alex Jones, or anyone affiliated with Alex Jones is just as bad as a liberal using anyone on MSNBC or DailyKos to try and prove a point. There are people that will just ignore you for parroting the party line.

    Personally, I think Jones and MSNBC are both a little creepy!!!

  • http://www.infowars.com/inside-sources-bin-ladens-corpse-has-been-on-ice-for-nearly-a-decade/ Kenn Jacobine

    Again, I am no fan of Jones. His article I found happened to have links to multiple stories about potential death scenarios for bin Laden. I agree Jones is creepy.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    most of my countrymen rely on the MSM for there news

    There should be a “their” there, Mr. International Educator.

    If the government were indeed pulling a gigantic scam as you are proposing, an enormous number of people are implicated. Yet no one outside of Obama-haters on the Internet has joined in with skepticism or nay-saying, even anonymously.

    And do you really think that if there were such a hoax, the US government and military would make the kind of obvious, easily verified mistakes you have so far pointed out?

    Here’s a quote from Fast Company on the DNA testing:

    Typical lab-based DNA matching tests like this can take up to 14 days; they’re painstaking and need to be repeated several times to ensure the sample’s not contaminated from any other DNA sources. But that’s not necessarily the only way to do these tests: late in 2010, a University of Arizona team presented research on a machine that can do the analysis in just two hours in a largely automated way. It’s possible that knowing they were engaged on a mission to capture bin Laden, U.S. forces arranged for access to a machine like this to be on quick alert…

  • zingzing

    kenn, i’m sure that (assuming there was a body to begin with, but i hope we’re beyond that now…) a quick dna test was done, with results clear enough that, along with visual verification and the wife’s identification, the administration felt confidant announcing that it was indeed bin laden. i’m also quite sure that you can take some samples and do longer, more thorough tests without having the body around any longer, and i’d be willing to bet that those tests have been or are being done.