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What? Israelis & Palestinians Are Old News

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Day after day, I check BC to see who's written an hysterical rant about the current mayhem in that pitifully small parcel of land known by various names that lies on the Mediterranean Sea in the Middle East. Bupkus. Nada. Niente. Nyet.

No Arab apologist wailing about the wanton destruction of the enfeebled Gaza Strip?

No Israeli apologist citing Barack Obama's comment that if folks were tossing missiles at his kids, he'd do something about it?

Not even an attempt at an unbiased analysis of the conditions that have once again led two peoples who have known nothing but war, discrimination, and hatred into another useless confrontation?

Maybe I should be checking some other section of BC. Surely, someone, somewhere, somehow has an opinion about smart bombs going one way and missiles going the other. No? Well, then, I'll offer my opinion based on years of careful research, decades of inebriation, and past lives in which truth was but a momentary construct designed to deceive and delude.

One wants to wail, "is everybody stark-raving, clothes-rending, eyeball-popping mad?"

Once again, Israel has embarked upon a military course for which there's no obvious end game or win. Sending troops into Gaza won't work any better than sending them into southern Lebanon, unless somehow the Israelis are determined to wipe out the entire Hamas leadership…and most of their followers. Worked real well in Iraq for the U.S., so they've got a play book they can borrow.

And once again, Hamas has made it patently clear that they have absolutely no concern — none, not any, not one jot or iota — for the welfare of the Palestinians under their thumb. By hiding like cowards and putting their missiles and weapons among the poor people of Gaza, they've demonstrated that their only interest is terrorism. They've already made it clear that their mission is the destruction of the State of Israel. They have no moral standing whatsoever. They're thugs.

As for Fatah, the old PLO, their leadership has been a beacon of hope for all those who believe in Middle East peace, world peace, the Easter Bunny, and the tooth fairy.

For fifteen years, there have been more attempts to craft a road to peace between the Israelis and Arabs than scandals in the Bush administration. Virtually all have failed. One reason is that the Arab nations (if you can call them that) have never had anything but disdain and contempt for the Palestinians. Another reason is that the Arabs have never been able to agree on anything as a people, except when facing the business end of a really large and powerful weapon.

World reaction has been fascinating. Sure, the anti-semitic mobs have taken to the streets to shriek against this horror against the poor people of Gaza, not mentioning that the Israelis, as they did in Lebanon, sent a warning to Gaza that the attack was going to begin, telling people to avoid Hamas strongholds and seek shelter. But, interestingly, while nations thump their breasts and call for a cease fire, there has not been an outbreak of anti-Israeli fervor as has been seen in the past.

Perhaps that's because any sentient being would have to look at the past six months of the so-called "period of restraint" highlighted by daily missile attacks from Hamas into Israel and wonder how long the Israelis were going to tolerate this insanity.

Many more innocent Palestinians are dying than Israelis. Conditions in Gaza are horrific. The damage that has been done in that tiny strip of land is beyond comprehension. But if one is going to point a finger, then it must be pointed first at Hamas. Then at the Arab world which refuses to accept an Israeli state in their midst. Then at the world community which routinely condemns Israel but does nothing to contain the spread of terrorism in the Middle East.

And, yes, the Israelis have not been blameless. But if someone were deranged enough to wave a wand and make me Sultan of Israel, I wouldn't have the vaguest idea how to create peace.

Perhaps the unbearable and unbreakable tragedy of the situation explains the silence on BC.

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About Mark Schannon

Retired crisis & risk manager/communications expert; extensive public relations experience in most areas over 30 years. Still available for extraordinary opportunities of mind-numbing complexity. Life-long liberal agnostic...or is that agnostic liberal.
  • http://www.fontcraft.com/rod/ Dave Nalle

    Mark, the reasons none of us write about it are two-fold.

    First, there’s nothing new to be said. This is yet another iteration of the same old story and both sides are making exactly the same mistakes as they always have. I could have written this story ten years ago and just changed the place names and been pretty much on target.

    Second, the discussion the article generates will be wearily familiar. It’s just a matter of hours before some fanatical trolls find this article and start repeating the same lame arguments on both sides which we always hear. Nothing new, no open minds, no progress.

    It’s tedious – but I applaud you for even trying to bring it up, and made your article my featured pick of the day.

    Dave

  • Arch Conservative

    Nalle’s right……..

    Palestinians and Jews killing each other?

    Who gives a damn………..there’s a new Clint Eastwood movie coming out.

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    I certainly wouldn’t say that I don’t give a damn if for no other reason than how, given certain circumstances, this conflict could spill over the Israeli borders into something much bigger that ultimately could involve the U.S.

    What keeps the flames of this conflict burning is religion. Both the Palestinians and Israelis claim the same space as their holy ground. They are fighting and dying for a piece of dirt. Unless and until a significant # of people on both sides come to understand how stupid and futile this conflict is, they will continue to hate and kill each other.

    As Mark notes, each side maintains that they hold the high ground. All it amounts to is a ludicrous and specious argument over make believe gods. It does make it hard to care. Personally, I think Allah and Yahweh just ought to duke it out – winner take all.

    B

  • Hope and Change?

    There is a new Eastwood Movie coming out its a politcal update of Dirty Harry…it takes place in the middle east and the new title is “Dirty Ruvy”….here is a preview…

    “Ah-ah, I know what you’re thinking, Yassir “Did he fire six missles or only five?” Well to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I’ve kind of lost track myself. But being Israel is the most powerful force in the mideast — and we could blow yours and every head in Gaza clean off, you’ve got to ask yourself one question: “Do I feel lucky?”

    “Well, you know, do ya, punk?

  • http://www.parodieslost.typepad.com Mark Schannon

    Dave, As I was writing the article, I thought about the comments and just shuddered. Who needs to open the can of worms? But, unlike Arch, we wait for movies to come out on CD, so I won’t get ignore politics for at least 6 months or so.

    I know it’s the same article year after year after year. It drives my normal sane self nuts in the belfry. Hell, even Ruvy hasn’t written about it.

    Baritone, it’s a lot about religion, but Yahweh & Allah fighting it out would be hysterical since they’re the same guys–or gals. That’s what makes the religious hysteria all the more…hysterical. But it’s also about tribalism, territorialism, and made up countries. The only country in the Middle East that wasn’t a creation of the Brits & French is Egypt–and look what a bastion of freedom and tolerance that is.

    Hope–loved it, except for the Ruvy slam. Write more but leave him out of it. Besides, he probably does have a 44 Magnum & ain’t afraid to use it, punk.

    In Jameson Veritas

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Mark,

    That they actually prostrate themselves before the same god renders this the more ludicrous and tragic. Add in the christians and you have three supposedly disparate groups laying claim to the same god. You know, if god had any decency, he’d at least make it a point to enlighten his adoring fans of that fact. But no. I guess hesheit gets a kick out of all these squabbles over himherit – like some ditsy hoochie mama getting off when two or more guys “take it outside” and beat the snot out of each other over her. It’s great fun.

    B

  • http://www.fontcraft.com/rod/ Dave Nalle

    The only downside to God not actually existing is that he can’t come down and kick some ass in the middle east and set all these fanatics straight.

    Dave

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    If you’re a believer, it’s all part of the “wonder” – that “It is not for us to ponder the ways of the lord.” and/or “It’s all part of god’s plan.” Great plan, huh? I can’t wait to see how it all comes out.

    B

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    It’s a lot about religion, but Yahweh & Allah fighting it out would be hysterical since they’re the same guys–or gals. That’s what makes the religious hysteria all the more…hysterical.

    That is nonsense. Rejecting the blasphemous notion that the One True God is schizophrenic, they are different gods. Soon, perhaps a few of the really cool Norse gods — possibly Fosite, Odin and Thor — will form an alliance, intervene and sort out this mess. We must all prey pray for that to happen, soon.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Hi Mark,

    Since [personal attack deleted] “Hope and Change” decided to call me out, the truth is that I don’t have a .44 Magnum – my preference is a Glock, or better yet an Uzi – but, yes, I am not afraid to shoot to kill.

    But, unlike some fuckin’ retards intellectually challenged individuals on this site, I know the difference between bloodthirsty, which is what Arab terrorists have been, and defending a country – which is what I wish the IDF were doing.

    And while I’m not afraid to shoot to kill, I’m not eager to either.

    But that is not why I’ve not written a story here at BC. BC takes just too long on what could be a developing story, and when this broke, it had all the hallmarks of one of those things that need to get out pronto. And people with full time jobs cannot be expected to drop making their livings because some hot in the pants guy from Israel has a news story. Unfortunately for me, that’s the way the stories often break here, and this is my best news outlet.

    But since there are far fewer articles submitted to Desicritics, I submitted my story there on 27 December, and it got published in two hours. Considering how the air attacks were developing at the time, two hours was still too long for me, but in the following days, the attack on Gaza has proven to be a wet balloon.

    Even in terms of eliminating Hamas, both Olmert and Barak have proven to be incompetents, like fourteen year old boys trying to have sex with a girl – unable to find the right hole. It appears they both need an “older woman” to teach them the right approach – but in international politics, such things just don’t exist. The best you get is Maggy Thatcher – and that’s worth nothing at all, in terms of having a good teacher. Besides, I think she’s dead. That’s a real problem.

    You’ve missed all the important points in what is going on, Mark, but seeing that you write from the hooch filled mountains of West Virginny, that’s no surprise.

    So, let’s try to make this simple.

    In 2006, the Arabs in Gaza, Judea and Samaria, tired of all the corrupt terrorists who were making their lives miserable, raping their daughters and stealing their money (in partnership of such honest people like Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, Dov Weissglass, Shimon Peres and the late Yossi Ginosar, Martin Schloff and scores of others….) threw out the corrupt terrorists and put in – honest terrorists. Hamas, honest to Allah, really wanted to kill Jews and not collect bribes for not raping everyone’s daughter.

    But the good Americans couldn’t handle democracy in action, and neither could those honest Israelis I mentioned. The honest Israelis, having lost all their opportunities to steal money and not get caught, did what they could to make Hamas look like the bad terrorists – and the PLO look like the good terrorists.

    The problem was that Hamas, in spite of all the efforts of the honest Israelis, would not go away! They kept finding ways to keep on keeping on. Until 27 December, they ran Gaza without so much as a “by your leave” from the alleged rulers of the place, the Palestinian Authority.

    Something had to be done!

    The something had to be done after the primaries for the Labor Party. Ehud Barak gets 25% of his votes from Arab voters. But the attack had to be done before Mahmoud Abbas lost his position as chairman of the PA on 9 January. Hence the timing (hat-tip to David Rutstein, a businessman in Israel). In addition, both labor and Kadima were sagging in pre-election polls. So, Barak wanted to look like a “Jew” to the Israelis who were to decide his fate on 10 February. Hence the attack on Gaza – which should have taken place in September 2005, when the assholes started to bombard S’derot with Qassams AFTER Israelis had kicked Jews out of their homes for the sake of “pace and security”. Maybe Sharon was unable to reach the jar Condi Rice had stuck his balls in. Maybe that was the problem.

    My friend Barry Chamish dug up a lot of dirt on Ehud Barak which is laid out in my article, “The Fixer”. So, when you look at Israeli military action, you just know you can rely on old (fat) Ehud.

    To make a long story short, there are one of two goals here. One, which frankly looks like a loser, is to try to replace all the bad terrorists in Hamas with the good terrorists from the PLO (thanks,
    Uncle Jay!. If Israeli soldiers have to actually go in and fight, there will be lots dead on our side, and that ain’t as much fun as lots dead on their side. Maybe, this will be the strategy, with Israeli forces going in after 10 February (elections in Israel). The other strategy is to choreograph a war, pretend lots of Arabs are dead and then say, “see, we’re still the same rough and tough IDF we used to was. Now let’s get back to kicking Jews out of their homes!” This seems more like what the cowardly bastards on Government Hill would do.

    And now, it’s time for me to have the news explained to me by Uncle Jay, who is a whole lot funnier than any satirist I’ve seen any place (except BC of course!).

  • Hope and Change?

    Ruvy…it was a compliment!!! I say bombs away…the only good Musilm terrorist is a dead one! Well maybe a tortured one…on is up there

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Hope and Change?

    Apologies: if this was indeed a compliment, then I apologize and retract my scummy comments less than complimentary comments about you. In the meantime, try to comprehend that the last thing we really need to do is replace Hamas with the PLO, which is the reason for this campaign in the first place.

    Come on! Getting rid of the “bad” honest terrorist and replacing him with the “good” corrupt terrorist?

    Comrade: that is not the answer.

    I outlined the basic solution to an Arab journalist who lives in Dura and seems only able to call Jews Nazis. I’m reproducing what I wrote to the Arab journalist here. While he composed an answer for the blog-site this was posted on, he has not answered me. I’ll be surprised if he does.

    I am a Jewish nationalist. But I also come from a nation where I lived as a minority, and I know that living in a minority status anywhere is onerous and burdensome – even absent discrimination or persecution. The majority culture is not yours, your identity with the country somewhat tenuous, you do not feel happy saluting the flag or singing the national anthem, etc. etc. This was somewhat true in my case in the States, but I can see where any Arab living in Israel might feel the same way, only a lot more strongly. I have not forgotten this fact. I’ll get back to it.

    You will not hear me say, “kick out the Arabs from their homes here”. I know what it is to be homeless; forcing homelessness on anyone is wrong. If someone wants to rebel against the country, that is one thing; but a man working at his business, raising his family, sending his kids to school? Or, if he is between jobs, looking for work? No, this is a man who is a decent fellow, a man who contributes to society. If his wife works, the same applies to her. That’s the first point.

    The second is that the economic discrimination against Arabs in Israel – all of it from the Mediterranean to the Jordan – must end. This is particularly true in the way wages are paid. An Arab must receive the same wages as an any other resident of the Land of Israel. Finally, the law must be applied equally. Unequal application of the law creates crime and is a burden on the justice system, and in addition, it creates a situation where people organize crime to make a living, and they refuse to respect the police or the law.

    Now let’s look harder at the issue of minority status. At this point, it is unrealistic to ask a young Arab living in Israel to serve in the Army the way we ask young Jew to. We’d be sending him off to kill other Arabs. But why shouldn’t Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza vote? Why should there not be constituencies for a certain number of seats in the national parliament, with an equal number elected as they are now from proportional representation? That is how the Germans elect the lower house of their parliament. What is wrong with that?

    Well, one thing that could be viewed as wrong is that the Arabs will be a minority here in this country. And more to the point, any peace settlement I envision does not allow for the return of refugees in neighboring countries. At least not yet. So, Arabs here would feel themselves burdened saluting the Shield of David, and they certainly would not wish to sing Hatiqva, the national anthem. That reflects a Jewish dream, not their dream, whatever that dream is.

    A better solution can be found.

    There is an Arab state that has a majority of Arabs from this country in it. Right now that country is called Jordan. It was severed illegally from the Palestine Mandate and Jewish settlement there was banned, even though it remained as part of the Palestine Mandate. But that is history, and not only is it useless to cry over spilt milk, it is impossible to unspill it. But one can put the milk bottle to good use. The Kingdom of Jordan is an Arab country, and it has an Arab culture, one not dissimilar to the one here. Arab residents of Gaza, Judea and Samaria can choose to be citizens of the Kingdom of Jordan while retaining residence in the Land of Israel. Thus they do business here, live here raise their children here, go to school here, and vote for local councils here – but they participate in Jordanian politics via delegates elected to the parliament in Amman, have the opportunity to join governing cabinets, join professional associations in either Israel or Jordan – or both, carry Jordanian passports and have a special delegation in the Israel’s parliament, and a cabinet seat devoted to their affairs and needs in the Israeli government.

    They do not have to feel alienated from their brethren across the Jordan – indeed many do have brethren and family across the Jordan, and they do not have to feel that they are bound to participate in a Jewish vision of the world, when it is not, in reality, their own. The taxes they pay would be divided between the local councils here, and the Jordanian government.

    Under such a solution, Arab refugees from what was Mandate Palestine can be readmitted to the country, either in Judea or Samaria, or in Jordan, to begin new and better lives. What is now known as the United Palestine Appeal Inc., for example, can be mobilized for the task of seeing to it that all Arabs who are now refugees get to build lives of prosperity and dignity and see their children and grandchildren enjoy the blessings of peace.

    Gaza, which is now merely an open air prison and slum (but a prosperous one for the Arab world) can be emptied out bit by bit. Its prosperity as a vegetable basket, if not for Europe, then for the Middle East can be restored.

    There is money to do this. I have seen (photos of) some of the hotels in the Gulf, and if money can be found to build such fantasy palaces, money can be found to build better lives for Arabs at the western end of Asia..

    Hopefully, I’ve not taken up too much of your time with this missive.

    Peace and blessings from a cold mountain-top in Samaria,

    Reuven.”

    I wrote an additional comment to the post he put on this blog, directed at him, but again, he did not answer. I’ll reproduce it for you here. His post had basically to do with how he regarded Jews who live in Judea and Samaria, concentrating on how he feels our Talmud discriminates against him and others.

    Khalid,

    I’m answering you as a Jew but more importantly, I’m answering you as a Child of Israel. There is a difference, an important one, and a little bit later, I’ll explain why.

    We are nearly neighbors, you and I. We could also be friends. I hold no ill will against you. I’m an iconoclast – I knock down false idols of hypocrisy – and for many years I wanted nothing to do with Judaism because of the hypocrisy I saw in it.

    At the present moment, you are extremely angry because, among other things, you see your own people, fighters for freedom, being killed by an enemy – the armed forces of Israel. I’m not throwing a shoe at you. But by the same token, I’m painfully aware of the need for this action – not because Hamas is more violent than the PLO – but because Hamas has developed a strategy of kill first and loot later, and because they have linked up militarily with HizbAllah – which means that we are dealing with the cat’s paw of the new Persian Empire. They are following their version of Sharia and the Haditha, Khalid, and whatever they do, they will not conclude peace in what they view as dar el-Harb. You know this as well as I do.

    From my point of view, the problem is not that the Israeli régime seeks to eliminate a political force that they nurtured in the first place – the problem is that they wish to replace it with a corrupt Arab terror regime that believes in loot first, kill later. That is what the Oslo Accords are all about, and what the “Saudi” “peace plan” is – loot first, kill later.

    The PLO and the “Saudi” régime will not conclude a real peace in what they view as dar el-Harb either. Instead, they prefer to sell greedy Israeli politicians the rope that they will use to hang them; thus there was a casino in Jericho, and plans were made for one in the Gaza Strip. Hamas upset the applecart, and took away the comfortable deals corrupt Israeli politicians had with the PLO. So the PLO wants to be rid of Hamas, and so do the Israeli politicians – and so do the masters in America and Europe the Israeli politicians serve and bow to, like a pagan bows to an idol.

    (note for Sarah: this writer understands that “idols” in India represent various sides of the G-dhead – he is not calling followers of Dharma pagans)

    Khalid, you have taken much time to talk about Judaism as you understand it. There are a few things you do not understand.

    1. The proper name is the Religion of the Children of Israel, and Jews are a mere part of the Children of Israel. They are not the entirety.

    2. The Talmud, written mostly in Babylon, is a survival manual for exile. The exile is coming to an end. We’re in the process of coming home.

    3. There will be paradigm changes in how Jews are forced to view themselves in all this. One paradigm change will be in how Jews view the Children of Kedar and Nevayot – the Children of Ishmael. In other words, Arabs.

    The reason I see this and Daniella Weiss and others in the nationalist camp may have trouble seeing this is that I’m a bit ahead on the learning curve. I concentrate my study not on the Talmud, but on the Hebrew Bible including the prophetic books. My outlook is an outrider of the paradigm changes I’m talking about. What you quote looks behind to the past and not ahead to the future.

    I will not argue with you if you wish to state that the present Israeli régime is corrupt, venal and discriminatory against Arabs. And I further suggest to you that the PLO is more corrupt, more venal and more discriminatory – against Christian Arabs.

    In addition, if you wish to say that it is the fault of the Israelis that you and others have had to suffer under the PLO, I certainly will not argue with you. I remember how Arafat’s thugs ousted local Arabs who had built a structure of “resistance” that could evolve into a local and popular régime.

    So, one logical solution to all of this is to ditch the Arab thugs so you can be free of them. On our side, we have to ditch the Israeli thugs – so we can be free of them.

    Think about it, and look at my proposals in a positive light, rather than a negative one.

    The road to peace has many stones in it. If you help me, then perhaps together, we can move them.

    I wish you a pleasant evening,
    Ruvy

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Mark, I may wind up hijacking your non-article to post real news, if you don’t mind. This shit turns on a dime – but it don’t turn like any dime I’ve ever seen.

    All of these are from Arutz Sheva, which is one of my preferred news sources.

    Israeli soldiers have entered Gaza and gunfights are reported.

    Israel has declared an official naval blockade on the Gaza coast.

    Twenty terrorists have been killed in ground fighting in Gaza.

    Apparently, there will be a ground campaign. G-d help us. I pray for the safety of our boys down there, and that G-d, in His Wisdom, forces the Israeli regime to do what is right, rather than to put the PLO in power there, as is their evident plan.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Go to Samson Blinded and see why this is my favorite news source.

    This is a sample story from tonight’s blog entries.

    Israeli tanks enter Gaza

    For six days, Israel was moving tanks from Syrian front to Gaza. Hamas watched the deployment of Israeli tanks powerless to counter the impending attack.

    Israeli artillery, deployed at the border with Gaza, provides defensive fire for the tanks.

    Hamas, PIJ had earlier boasted of foxholes and C-4 massive tank mines. It remains to be seen whether Israeli intelligence identified most of them.

    Despite the Second Lebanon War experience, most Israeli tanks are not equipped with Trophy active missile defense and remain vulnerable to RPGs; Hamas stocked capable RPG-29’s from Syria.

    Learning from the Lebanon errors, Israeli tank crews in Gaza enjoy some support from helicopters which look out for RPG launchers.

    As Israel has air monopoly over Gaza, tanks are not necessary to destroy the militants’ targets. IDF now tries to reach into Hamas, PIJ pockets of resistance and provoke their dispersed fighters into battles. Presumably, even if they fire from residential buildings, IAF would take out the buildings. The tanks, therefore, act as a bait for Palestinian guerrillas.

    The tank operation represent Israeli attempt to maintain the momentum. As IAF ran out of targets, Israel tries to keep initiative without ceding it to Hamas.

    Small numbers of IDF troops, about 2,500 have so far entered Gaza, supported by tanks. The IDF success now depends on Hamas inability to disperse its fighters and allow the invading troops through before engaging them in hit-and-run attacks.

    Israeli aims in the ground operation remain unclear. One stated goal is destroying Hamas infrastructure. Like what? Another is taking control of Kassam launch pads. But every square meter of land in Gaza is potentially a launch pad. Occupying a few miles of northern Gaza solves nothing as Grad missiles can be launched at Israel from south Gaza. Hamas has missiles whose range exceeds 40 miles.

    Just like a week ago, Israeli government unnecessarily scheduled the attack for Shabbat (it’s forbidden to fight on Shabbat unless one is under attack or required to save lives – Ruvy): though the invasion occurred in the evening, all the preparations were carried out in daytime. If that’s an issue of saving lives, why didn’t we invade a week ago?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    From Arutz Sheva More bluster from Barak? Are he and Livni trying to defeat Netanyahu using the lives of Jewish soldiers? Or do we face a serious war?

    Ehud Barak released a statement warning that Israel was prepared for attacks from the North (i.e. HizbAllah) and that this war would be long and hard, with a heavy burden on the soldiers. This was the report out of Arutz Sheva this evening, as IDF ground forces moved into the Gaza Strip. Iran had warned Saturday that HizbAllah would attack Israel if Israel were to expand its operations in Gaza to include a ground invasion. So, now we wait to see if Iran will make good on its threats.

  • http://www.parodieslost.typepad.com Mark Schannon

    Ah, my friend, Ruvy, this is you at your best laying out the historical and political issues with a profound respect for your “enemies.”

    I saw that the Israelis had invaded Gaza & I share your fears. I hope they’ve got very specific targets to destroy & then get the hell out…all of them.

    But as to Jordan, while you’re right it was supposed to be Palestine, the Brits installed the Hashemite thugs who’ve treated the Palestinians like 3rd class citizens for decades. (Black September?) The current Hashemite Thug-in-Residence is never going to cede authority to the majority Palestinians, and the Arab world–the whole world–will never make that happen.

    I just can’t see the Palestinians moving to Jordan…or even agreeing to cede part of the West Bank to Jordon to create a real country for themselves. Jordan controlled the West Bank for 30 years and kept the Palestinians in camps, fomented anti-Israeli hatred, and…oh shit, you know this stuff better than I.

    Anyway, keep praying. Someday, your God may listen and finally do something. Hell, it’s time for another one of His miracles.

    Baritone & Dave, one of my unpublished novels is called “God Never Answers,” in which a young Jewish boy struggles with why old Jewish men are always kvetching to God. When he asks his mother why God never answers them, she tells him that God isn’t even listening.

    (What’s a nice Jewish agnostic like me writing a book such as this? Beats me.)

    And it’s not West Virginia, Ruvy, you nincompoop. West Virginia is where I’ve bought my ocean front property for when global climate change gets really ugly. For now, I’m in chic, Democratic, liberal Northern Virginia.

    In Jameson Veritas

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    This article from Arutz Sheva is just a summary of the reports I posted earlier, but as a news story, it gets “talkbacks”, comments from readers.

    It is the talkbacks I wanted to comment on here. The vast majority of readers sent prayers, good wishes, etc. to our boys fighting in Gaza. But two seem to comprehend the truth of events occuring there.

    Comment #20 – There is Nothing Good About This: Kadima deliberately placing young Israelis in harm’s way when they could have bombed ‘Aza to smithereens from the air – Kadima are murderers make no mistake, friends of the Arabs and the gentiles – mortal enemies of Israel. Don’t hide your head in the sand, this is the truth.

    Comment #23 – You are right:
    Rami (the previous commenter) is 100% right. The Israeli public seems so thick-headed, it is unbelievable.

    There is nothing good about this. The north is not properly prepared for another war. But that can result if this attack goes forward. If casualties in the south mount, and the government comes under international pressure to withdraw, and does so, the credibility of the government and the IDF will have been flushed down the toilet.

    Finally, there is the issue of what war from the north can mean. I do not think the unthinking Hiloním really understand that missiles with guidance systems in them will do far more damage than the noisy spears with explosives attached that constitute rockets. If I felt assured that the IDF and the government that commands it was willing to nuke Teheran, Damascus or Riyadh in retaliation for attacks on Israel, then I might feel a bit assured. But the IDF and government that controls it is not willing to go to war, to full war, to defeat and to annihilate the enemy, particularly the PLO, Hamas, PIJ and HizbAllah.

    Half measures will not suffice; they will only create another war here. More death, more heartache, more widows, more pain, more parents burying children. If you do not go to war to win, then do not go to war at all.

    This all looks like a painful series of half measures that will not do the job, and will only burden us with more debt and compulsory loans, along with more casualties.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    They really should consider calling this war a tie before it goes into its 2009th overtime.

  • http://www.fontcraft.com/rod/ Dave Nalle

    But as to Jordan, while you’re right it was supposed to be Palestine, the Brits installed the Hashemite thugs who’ve treated the Palestinians like 3rd class citizens for decades. (Black September?) The current Hashemite Thug-in-Residence is never going to cede authority to the majority Palestinians, and the Arab world–the whole world–will never make that happen.

    Perhaps if we put the reasonable, sensible and entirely non-thuggish Hashemites in charge of Saudi Arabia the way that they are supposed to be, instead of the truly despotic Sauds, then a lot of these problems would be solved.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Ruvy,

    I am somewhat confused. I had understood you in the past to argue that the United States had interfered improperly in Israel’s business by, among other things, pressuring her to stay her hand. Now, the U.S., along with the president of the Czech Republic, who is the head at the moment of the EU, are apparently the only international support she has :

    The only official vocal support for Israel came from United States President George W. Bush, who continued to blame Hamas for the Israeli retaliation.

    It seems reasonable to hope that the U.S. may veto the draft Arab resolution, to be presented at the emergency Security Council meeting, blaming Israel for the current mess.

    Should the U.S. have pressured Israel to stay her hand and not send in boots on the ground? Should the U.S. veto, abstain from, or even support the Arab-proposed U.N. resolution? Propose a more equitable blame spreading resolution calling for international “monitoring?” Or what? This question is not an easy one to answer, particularly since President Elect Obama has (quite properly in my view) thus far maintained at least public silence on his position, but will become the President in just over two weeks and it is at least possible that the U.S. position on the entire matter may change shortly and dramatically.

    I agree with your view that it is a bad idea to enter upon a war which is likely to expand like Topsy and which a country can’t reasonably hope to win. But what, if anything, would you have the U.S. do? Now, and post 20 January?

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Dan,

    I am somewhat confused.

    Follow the bouncing shekels, Dan!

    Please reread and pay attention!!

    In 2006, the Arabs in Gaza, Judea and Samaria, tired of all the corrupt terrorists who were making their lives miserable, raping their daughters and stealing their money (in partnership of such honest people like Ariel Sharon and Ehud Barak, Dov Weissglass, Shimon Peres and the late Yossi Ginosar, Martin Schloff and scores of others….) threw out the corrupt terrorists and put in – honest terrorists. Hamas, honest to Allah, really wanted to kill Jews and not collect bribes for not raping everyone’s daughter.

    But the good Americans couldn’t handle democracy in action, and neither could those honest Israelis I mentioned. The “honest” Israelis, having lost all their opportunities to steal money and not get caught, did what they could to make Hamas look like the bad terrorists – and the PLO look like the good terrorists.

    and to my Arab neighbor Khalid,

    From my point of view, the problem is not that the Israeli régime seeks to eliminate a political force that they nurtured in the first place – the problem is that they wish to replace it with a corrupt Arab terror regime that believes in loot first, kill later. That is what the Oslo Accords are all about, and what the “Saudi” “peace plan” is – loot first, kill later.

    The PLO and the “Saudi” régime will not conclude a real peace in what they view as dar el-Harb either. Instead, they prefer to sell greedy Israeli politicians the rope that they will use to hang them; thus there was a casino in Jericho, and plans were made for one in the Gaza Strip. Hamas upset the applecart, and took away the comfortable deals corrupt Israeli politicians had with the PLO. So the PLO wants to be rid of Hamas, and so do the Israeli politicians – and so do the masters in America and Europe the Israeli politicians serve and bow to, like a pagan bows to an idol.

    Are you getting the picture here?

    The good guys – to the degree that homicidal women-oppressing maniacs could be good guys – are Hamas. The bad guys – and they ARE bad – are the corrupt Israeli politicians, and the PLO, whom these corrupt Israeli politicians set over Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Gaza to “rule” over them and steal every dime they could. What the corrupt Israeli politicians do not want to comprehend is that the PLO will kill all the Jews in Israel (if they can) once they’ve weakened the country to the point where it has no spirit to fight back.

    It is in the American interest to get rid of Hamas, and it most certainly is in the interest of all Israelis to get rid of Hamas. The tricky parts are these – the Americans don’t ever want to be seen getting their “clean” hands dirty, supporting the dirty Jew too much AND that the corrupt Israeli regime wants to replace all the “bad” terrorists in Gaza with “good” terrorists – the murderers they had had business dealings with prior to 2000.

    There, Dan. I’ve managed to say the exact same thing four times. Do you think you understand now?

  • Jamie

    There is no such thing as a Palestinian people. They were Jordinans and Syrians. They never were Palestinians. They and others occupied Israel for 2000 years after the fall of the temple, when JEWS were exiled from their homeland. We always planned to return home and now we have. We took a swamp and made it a country. The arabs did nothing with it for 2000 years. They used the western wall as a garbage dump. They are not going to get it back. Too bad Hamas…too bad Hezbollah, too bad Al Queda and any other group that wants the Jews to disappear like Hitler did. We are not going anywhere.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    On that basis, there is no such thing as an Israeli people. They are basically Iraqis…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Ruvy,

    Yes, I think I take your point. There are lots and lots of really bad people in the world, many of them in and around Israel. Israel needs to get rid of Hamas, the PLO, and a bunch of corrupt politicians in Israel. Doing all of these things will be very, very difficult, even if Hezbollah stays quiet. In the meantime, there are also folks in Syria and elsewhere, including the U.S., who would like to see Israel, and Jews along with her, vanish.

    Despite these factors, I think that Israel and the U.S. are correct in resisting a cease fire and withdrawal now, since that would do little more than to allow Hamas to regroup. I disagree with the comment favorably reprinted in your Comment #17 that

    Kadima [is] deliberately placing young Israelis in harm’s way when they could have bombed ‘Aza to smithereens from the air. . . .

    Air offensives are useful, but unless followed by a land offensive serve little purpose — even in the context of a more conventional war. This seems to be even more the case since Hamas intentionally places its rocket devices and other offensive supplies in civilian areas; then it whines when the civilians which it thereby endangered are hit. The “International Community,” perhaps more comfortable with conventional warfare, accepts these whines and Israel responds by taking increased precautions — thereby diminishing the effectiveness of her air strikes; Israel had, I understand, already taken significant steps to avoid civilian casualties.

    I agree that

    If casualties in the south mount, and the government comes under international pressure to withdraw, and does so, the credibility of the government and the IDF will have been flushed down the toilet.

    However, what sort of credibility would Israel and the IDF have had (particularly post-Hezbollah) if Israel had simply done nothing and allowed the Hamas rocket attacks to continue? Not much, I suspect. Israel had little in the way of alternatives to what she did and is doing. My view is that Israel must strongly resist pressures, international and domestic, to stop now and that she must do to Hamas what she set out to do. Now that the air offensive has largely served its purpose, and only minimal further use of air power should be necessary there, any attack by Hezbollah can be met with air power followed as necessary by boots on the ground. It ain’t easy, but I don’t see any viable alternative. Much of the world buys the Hamas propaganda and dislikes Israel; some parts of the world more so than others. Continued strong shows of force and success against Hamas may well have a deterrent effect on others who would like to see Israel destroyed.

    As to the corrupt politicians in Israel, a major house-cleaning is needed; the same is true in the U.S. I get the sense of an unfortunate passivity in Israel (and in the U.S.) to politicians looking after their own goodies to the detriment of their country. As long as that passivity continues, I don’t see much hope. Fortunately, that is a problem in the resolution of which the International Community has very little voice.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://www.parodieslost.typepad.com Mark Schannon

    Dan, alas, is correct that air wars alone do not a victory make. We learned that lesson (although some still dispute it) in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq.

    On the other hand, we’ve also learned (we being well-educated, sophisticated, know-it-alls) that if you don’t have an end game & and exit strategy, don’t enter.

    Ruvy, your sons aren’t in Gaza, are they? I hope not. Please tell them they’re in my thoughts. I’d say I’m praying for them, but given my relationship with You Know Who, that’d probably do more harm than good.

    Christopher. It’s a deal. Kick all them looney Sunni, Shias & Kurds out of Iraq, and we’ll take it. (Speaking only for myself, of course.)

    In Jameson Veritas

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Marc,

    Neither of my sons are in Gaza, thank G-d. They are both home, asleep in their beds. It is highly unlikely that the elder one will ever be called to military service – the younger one is scheduled to go in later this year (or next year in 5770) after he finishes high school.

    And do say those prayers – if not for my sons then for those kids who are down there, putting their lives on the line – for what, I’m not sure. If you have a Bible in the house, pick it up and read Psalm #20 for our boys – and remember, they are your boys too, whether your realize it or not. So long as you are proud of that Shield of David, they defend you too.

    I only hope to G-d that events force the scum on Government Hill to do the right thing.