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Home » We Quit from Iraq, Play the Vietnam Card, and America Becomes the World’s Joke

We Quit from Iraq, Play the Vietnam Card, and America Becomes the World’s Joke

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All the Democrats have to do is sit back and watch as Senators destroy American policy for the next twenty years. This morning, Senators Arlen Specter (R-PA) and John Warner (R-VA) had offered two of five competing resolutions on how to stop the president from sending additional troops to Iraq.

Late this afternoon, Specter and Warner, stepping out of a Las Vagas Wedding Parlour, announced they had wed their two resolutions.  Of course they support our troops.  Of course they support the president.  They just think the troops and the president don't a have a clue what to do.

Not to be outdone, President-I-Hope-To-Be-Elected Barak Obama (D-IL) last night actually set a firm date by which he wants U.S. forces out of Iraq.  According to a source with no credibility whatsoever, Obama threw darts at a bulletin board and came up with March 31, 2008. 

What's so frustrating is that Bush has put people, who are alleged to have brains instead of straw in their heads, in an intolerable position.  Lying about starting the war, castrating our efforts in Afghanistan, not sending in enough troops in the beginning, having no concept or plan to win the peace, being led around by the diplomatic nose by Iran, totally failing to understand the lengths to which some Shiites and Sunnis will act against their own best interests — if that's not enough for Impeachment and Conviction, it should be.

But what liberals, conservatives, libertarians, and Lithuanians seem to continually forget is the effect an American pullout would have on our reputation around the world.  And, as someone used to say, make no mistake about it, we ain't gonna win this war in 2008, which means we're going to have the moral equivalent of helicopters rescuing the last Americans from Hanoi, totally destroying any Nixon/Kissinger myth that we'd achieved peace with honor.

Osama bin Laden was encouraging the U.S. to invade Iraq before the invasion.  Wouldn't you think an intelligent person would ask why?  Like taking pressure off the Afghanistan/Pakistan border?  Trapping the Americans in a tribal quagmire created by Europe after World War I and never resolved?  Creating a single focal point for the recruitment and training of more lunatic Arabs who'd give up this life for 17 virgins? 

He actually predicted exactly what has happened.

Vietnam was different in one critical way.  It was an evil, stupid, useless war that had no geopolitical value.  Someone–Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, should have just said, enough's enough.  We apologize for trying to recreate the French myth of Indochina.  Here's a couple of billion for reparations.  We're going home.

Thanks to the unbelievable stupidity of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld, we have put American credibility on the line in Iraq in ways that will come back to haunt us.  Which of these young Arab loonies (which means there are Arabs who aren't loonies just in case someone missed the grammar there) is ever going to be afraid of the U.S. again.  We alienated our long-time allies through our belligerance and arrogance.  We convinced most of the world what our enemies have been saying for decades:  America is a power-hungry, decadent culture that seeks to dominate the world.

Sending Karen what's her name on her globe trotting tours?  Isn't anyone else so insulted by this most magnificent of bonehead moves that they're furious.

I'm sorry.  We cannot leave Iraq.  I was against the war from the beginning, but we're in a position where our very future could be compromised by blowing this.  We need to send in more troops, flood the country, train the Iraqis (with modern equipment, not donkey carts), set measurable goals for the Iraqi government, and define win in a way that others will understand it:

  • When America takes the field, we don't leave until we've won the battle.
  • When we leave, we've established the grounds for the country to begin a rebirth.
  • We have no desire to rule the world.
  • We never threaten.  We act.

Bush hasn't gotten one of those right.  Whatever one's political point of view, the damage caused to this country is too great to find some slick political maneuvering to get us out.  The Morons of Congress have to stop putting their political future in the way of one of the most important foreign policy issues in our history.  And Americans have to stop wearing blinders about the rest of the world, and understand what we can — and cannot — do. 

About Mark Schannon

Retired crisis & risk manager/communications expert; extensive public relations experience in most areas over 30 years. Still available for extraordinary opportunities of mind-numbing complexity. Life-long liberal agnostic...or is that agnostic liberal.
  • D’oh

    Will you posit that we spun into the invasion?

    And yes, you can get out of a war with diplomacy and the same kind of marketing techniques that were used to get in.

    Do I think that’s the best answer? Probably not, but it IS possible.

    Since day one, NO ONE has laid out definitive “victory conditions”, and W has stated repeatedly that Iraq was something the next president would have to deal with.

    So, what are we going to call “victory”? How much are we willing to spend on it? The current $10 million an HOUR is unsustainable, and has left Iraq worse than when we got there.

    Today’s intel report shows things as MUCH worse than we have been lead to believe, so what needs to be determined is what our our goals framed by security and national interests, OURS!

    Until that has all been settled, any talk of “victory”, or even a proper end to all this shit, is premature at best and delusional at least.

  • troll

    Baronious – SOP is when you loose you surrender

    you imply that there is a winning strategy – did I miss your plan – ?

  • JR

    Baronius: I find it disingenuous to claim that we can spin our way out of a war.

    Martin Lav: Why not we spun our way into it….

    I suspect Iraq is more like a pregnant woman than like a light bulb.

  • Matthew T. Sussman

    “Pres. are only allowed 2 terms.”

    Or 10 years.

  • Baronius

    D’oh – look up the word “posit”.

  • Baronius

    Troll – look up the word “loose”.

  • D’oh

    Baronius – here you go.

    posit – 1. To assume the existence of; postulate. See Synonyms at presume.
    2. To put forward, as for consideration or study; suggest: “If a book is hard going, it ought to be good. If it posits a complex moral situation, it ought to be even better” (Anthony Burgess).
    3. To place firmly in position.

    Your point?

  • troll

    thanks for the correction…I meant luz of course

  • Dave Nalle

    Since day one, NO ONE has laid out definitive “victory conditions”, and W has stated repeatedly that Iraq was something the next president would have to deal with.

    Eternal war HAS no victory conditions. It goes on forever and becomes the central focus of society.


  • D’oh

    Ah, so it is your contention that we are entered into eternal warfare? Or are you just being snarkier than usual?

    for you, Dave.

  • MCH

    “Eternal war HAS no victory conditions. It goes on forever and becomes the central focus of society.”
    - Dave Nalle

    Did you steal that from Vox Populi?

  • Clavos

    emmy’s so thrilled he’s learned a phrase in Latin he can’t stop repeating it usque ad nauseam.

    de asini umbra disceptare, emmy.

  • MCH


    No, just pointing out the hypocrisy of Nalle for trying to get away with an alias, after condemning others for the same thing.


    Dear D’oh,

    Please read my comment about your new YouTube obsession in “No One Died In Iraq Today.”



    PS: Nalle, I really think you’ve lost it lately. Maybe a nervous breakdown? Seriously, you don’t sound good, dude. Maybe you should take some time off the internet.

    I really like you as an opponent, but lately, you’re sound like a hallucinating street preacher.

  • Bliffle

    Shark: Dave hasn’t changed, but the positions he’s forced to defend have become more untenable. As GWB advances his Full Spectrum Global Control agenda the possible rationales become more absurd. Once plausible policy defenses become laughably implausible.

    The USA has few options left to save the situation. Continuing BushCo policies just paints us into a smaller, more perilous, corner. It’s best to take action sooner rather than later. Impeachment CAN be a slow clumsy process, especially since the whole team must be fired, but it must be contemplated. But that may cause Bush supporters to lose too much face (and ‘face’ seems to be of supreme importance to those folk, along with a few other mysterious notions) and they would rather invoke a mutual death spiral than admit personal failures.

    Scapegoating is a time-honored way to solve a mismanagement problem like this. Heap all the blame on one guy then fire him and his cohorts. Anyone who’s been through a big corporate shakeup knows that this is a wonderful opportunity to dump all the failings of the corp on the guy, fire all the ‘failures’, even if they’re just personal enemies, take a big one-time loss on the financial statement, and assert a new hopeful strategy for the future. Some companies, like airlines, do this every few years. It becomes routine housekeeping.

    An honorable man would scapegoat himself, as Eisenhower did on D-day (preparing his written mea culpa in advance) and the U2 incident (where it would have been easy to exculpate himself, he had thorough Plausible Deniability).

    But, lacking Honor, an alternative is to hound a defective manager from office. We’ve all seen this in various companies we’ve worked within. Some guy earns the enmity of an important person and forever after is blamed for everything that goes wrong until he voluntarily resigns under the burden of hatred and guilt. Nixon is a good example. So is LBJ. Sometimes responsibility has to be stretched a lot, sorta the way we stretched 911 to blame Saddam Hussein.

    Of course, if the malefactor dies from natural causes or otherwise, all the blame can be heaped on him posthumously. E.g., Krushevs denunciation of Stalin allowed K to radically alter failed policy and divert blame from communism to a Personality Cult. He learned from the Bolsheviks, who did the same to the Csar and Romanoffs.

    Obviously, we cannot expect GWB to fall on his sword. That would be the honorable thing to do. He did not have the advantage Ike had of losing badly (at Casserain, to Rommel) and having to redeem himself. GWBs dad rescued him so he wouldn’t have to pay the consequences. A big mistake, though understandable.

    No, I’m afraid the only solution is to hound GWB and cohorts from office, and quickly. Part of that effort has to be to stop using quibbles and outright lies to defend these jerks. And we have to stop subverting the legal system in defense of characters who don’t deserve such extreme defense.

    Gee, this reminds me of the Nixon collapse, when more and more crookedness was uncovered, and more and more Nixon supporters peeled away and abandoned The Cause, not because they were intimidated, but because they were disgusted, finally.

  • Dave Nalle

    Ah, so it is your contention that we are entered into eternal warfare? Or are you just being snarkier than usual?

    I’m increasingly convinced that we’re engaged in a war which has been going on without us being consciously aware of it for thousands of years. I think the war actually predates Islam and goes back to the wars between the Persians and the Greeks. There have been long periods of relative inactivity, but the basic cultural differences which have motivated the war never really go away and the long-term resentments are carried over from generation to generation. Perhaps not so much on our side in the war – which is a characteristic of our culture – but certainly on the opposing side. One of the reasons so many today don’t realize that this eternal war exists is that our culture constantly reinvents itself, while the culture of the east constantly looks backwards. We think we’re involved in a conflict which originated with territorial reallocation in the aftermath of WW2. They think they’re avenging the Siege of Acre and a thousand other wrongs done by people we don’t even realize they think we’re the successors of.


  • Ruvy in Jerusalem


    Sixty comments ago I pointed out where your real enemy lies – the Wahhabi and their spore. If you want to get rid of cancer, you go for the actual root of the metastasis, and you don’t waste your time on side issues.

    It ain’t original, but it is the truth. But you guys in America don’t want to even think about the truth, you’re so busy with the bullshit that you’re being fed, and the bullshit that you are tossing in each other’s faces.

    Look, kids. Three thousand casualties over four years is not that much, especially compared to the millions you all have in the States.

    From my neighboring village of ‘Eli, three people died fighting in Lebanon – not that much – until you figure out that for every Israeli there are fifty Americans. So the little village down the road lost – in terms of America’s population, 150 dead. We lost, when compared to the bunch of blind wusses in the States, 100 casualties of our population – 5,000 dead when compared to America’s population. And we lost them all in three fuckin’ weeks, not four years.

    Man, not only are you all soft, you’re also blind not to see who your real enemies are.

    Have a good week…

    May G-d open your eyes.

  • Dave Nalle

    Sheesh Ruvy, don’t point out the statistical realities of the world. That’s the next best thing to genocide from the point of view of the radical lefties.


  • Ruvy in Jerusalem


    Aside from you, it appears that nobody has noticed either comment #67 or comment #24. I would also point out troll’s comment #39.

    He provides a clear clue as to strategy for “regime change” – the kind that is truly needed in America; I provide the strategy for saving your butts from your own corporate thieves.

    I’m talking here not as an Israeli – my proposed policies do not necessarily benefit Israel, and can be worked to her detriment as well. But a true “regime change” in America will inspire one here as well. And Israel and America both badly need “regime change”.

  • D’oh

    Ruvy – could be due to the fact that most consider nuking anywhere to be nonsensical, and mass slaughter of innocents that come with such actions to be reprehensible.

    Now, tell me I am soft and blind.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    OK, D’oh,

    Do you have a better solution for getting rid of Riyadh than nuking it? Do you have a better solution for getting rid of the head of the Saudi snake that will not involve billions of dollars and thousands of soldiers for purposes of occupying a big city?

    If you do, do tell…

  • D’oh

    Ruvy – if required, a single bullet can do more than megatons of explosion and no innocents die.

    You make the assumption that something needs “getting rid of”.. and I do understand why, but just as good a case can be made about getting rid of Jerusalem, and how much good that could do the world.

    I wouldn’t advocate doing that either.

  • D’oh

    Just to clarify.. i meant the actual physical city of Jerusalem…NOT the people.

    Just for you, Ruvy…

    the Tao of D’oh.


    Dave Vox: “Sheesh Ruvy, don’t point out the statistical realities of the world.”

    Pathetic. Transparent. Cynical.

    Nalle is stroking Ruvy now that Dave Vox needs an ally and/or supporter. How far he’s fallen~

  • Dave Nalle

    Ruvy, in America regime change isn’t necessarily policy change, especially where Israel is concerned. Unless we elect Pat Buchanan and he decides to nuke Israel just for fun, almost anyone we elect is going to continue more or less the same general kind of policy in the region. They may drop more bombs and spend more money while sending fewer troops, but so long as there’s a big Jewish voting block they’re not going to take a hard line with the Israeli government.


  • Lumpy

    I saw an interview yesterday with a former CIA mideast analyst who was positive that if we pull out of iraq then israel will almost immediately hit iran with several of their 200 plus nukes. How do we like that scenario?

  • Dave Nalle

    Won’t the Iranians just reply with massive chemical/biological weapons and maybe a couple of nukes they bought somewhere that we don’t know about?

    The ensuing conflagration might solve a lot of problems for the US, but at a pretty horrid cost.


  • MCH

    “Won’t the Iranians just reply with massive chemical/biological weapons and maybe a couple of nukes they bought somewhere that we don’t know about?”
    - Dave (Vox Populi) Nalle

    I’ve seen figures similar to the ones Populi quotes.

  • MBD

    #75 — Dave Nalle:

    “Unless we elect Pat Buchanan and he decides to nuke Israel…”

    Buchanan nuke Israel?

    I watch the McLaughlin Group which has Buchanan on as a regular. I never heard him say anything to support what you say here.

  • Dave Nalle

    That was in the nature of a kind of a joke, MBD. Bushanan does have an established reputation for being strongly anti-zionist and making some rather intemperate statements on the subject. He probably wouldn’t actually nuke Israel and he’ll never be president. The point was that more mainstream figures are unlikely to change our policy towards Israel.

  • MBD

    My take on Buchanan is that he is opposed to neo-conservatives. Is that what makes him anti-zionist?

  • buddyd

    I hate to tell you all but America is already the World’s joke. The size of the blunder that Bush has made is quite staggering. Post 9/11, America was the most sympathized-with Country in the world. Every rational human felt badly for America and was on their side.

    I have to say, the moment I knew we were fucked was about a week after the bombings when Cheney/Bush spoke. They had an opportunity in front of them. They could have told people, use this feeling of togetherness for positive change, help each other out, volunteer, show the terrorists that we’re a kind, compassionate people and that their bombings have had the opposite effect on our country, it’s better now than it ever has been.

    What did they say instead? Shop. Don’t forget to go to the malls, they’re safe…keep spending everyone!

    But the moment that Bushco started lying about WMD and the ‘dangers to the homeland’ from Saddam. feelings towards America changed from the world’s perspective…and they’ve done nothing but spiral down since.

    To those who don’t think that America needs to be favored in the eyes of the world, obviously you people have no understanding of history and how EVERY OTHER Empire crumbled…nor do you have any understanding of economics.