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We Can’t Afford to Ignore Africa Anymore

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Every year at this time the leaders of both the Church of England and the Catholic Church deliver a state-of-the-world address to their flocks. In accordance with the tenets of their faiths they will let the world know what they consider to be the most important issues of the day.

Of course they aren't the only ones who have their say. Other religious leaders, national leaders, and the deep thinkers in the press all have their lists ready for consideration: Political events, war, terrorism, intergovernmental relationships, and all the other matters of importance which affect policy, economics, and the perceived balance of power in the world.

Since we all share the same planet, it is quite amazing how so few of these leaders agree on the major global issues. They all have their own agendas and advocate what's important from their perspective: events that have helped fulfill their goals, events they are involved in, or things that challenge what they believe to be the way one should lead a life. Nothing that does not directly impact upon the objectives of their country or way of thinking seems to ever make it onto these summations.

Some will offer platitudes about world peace, famine, and the scourge of AIDS in Africa, but only insofar as it suits whatever social-political agenda they stand for. It's easy enough to say what a shame it all is, but it's another thing to actually advocate doing something about it.

The pundits worry about where the next wave of terrorism is going to come from, but the answer is right in front of them, and they don't seem to have noticed. But then again why should that be different from the way that Africa has been treated in the past? If the refugee camps of the Palestinians were hotbeds for recruitment by the PLO and others in the 1960s, what about the camps currently in Africa?

It's been the policies and beliefs over the years of the major powers that have allowed situations to get to the acute and chronic level they're at now. Why is there still fighting in Somalia when the Americans invaded it years ago to pacify the region? Why is there still the same border war between Ethiopia and Eritrea that filled refugee camps and led to famine in the 1980s?

How did the massacres in Rwanda occur when the United Nations' commander on the ground kept telling the world it was happening – and nobody could spare any troops to help deal with the situation? Why are there people living in camps in Darfur when the American government declared it was a case of genocide in the making?

Price of Neglect

Africa has to be the story soon, or we will all be paying the price for our neglect. What kind of anger and resentments must be brewing there that could easily be inflamed and brought to focus against us for real and perceived injustices?

What the reality is doesn't matter anymore. Facts like the fundamental Muslim groups in Somalia being no more likely to agree to family planning practices when it comes to preventing the spread of AIDS than the Catholic Church or the current American Administration will be irrelevant in the face of emotional appeals for vengeance.

Anti-Western sentiment in Africa will begin to escalate unless we change our policies from being where we are perceived as an exploiter – the one who caused all the problems – to being the compassionate friend who offers help with no strings attached. Any group that is looking to recruit for the "cause" probably won't have too much difficulty finding volunteers.

It's not just a matter of giving money or relieving debt; we need to be on the ground in the camps working with people on an almost one-to-one basis. Our governments need to be serious in their attempts to get AIDS medicines to African victims and push for the development of a free vaccine. Our presence needs to be felt above and beyond celebrities adopting cute black babies.

Compassion has to rule our dealings with Africa, and not profit or belief systems. We can no longer simply consider the present, but have to take into consideration the future, and how we can ensure there is one for the people of that continent. It shouldn't have to be for political reasons. We should be working from the standpoint of compassion for our fellow human beings who are suffering. But if nothing happens soon, for whatever the reason, it might be too late.

Iraq, Afghanistan, and the Middle East are all current hot spots that we can't ignore of course, but neither can we continue to ignore the situation in the Sub-Sahara and the rest of Africa. Maybe they don’t have to be on this year's listing of top events, but if we don't start making Africans important, they might just become so – for all the wrong reasons.

That can't be allowed to happen.

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About Richard Marcus

Richard Marcus is the author of two books commissioned by Ulysses Press, "What Will Happen In Eragon IV?" (2009) and "The Unofficial Heroes Of Olympus Companion". Aside from Blogcritics his work has appeared around the world in publications like the German edition of Rolling Stone Magazine and the multilingual web site Qantara.de. He has been writing for Blogcritics.org since 2005 and has published around 1900 articles at the site.
  • Belizaire

    Helping with no strings attached has been tried for far too long and has not worked. It just feeds oppression and dictatorship. We need to take a hard line with repressive regimes in Africa and make sure that aid is contingent on democratic reform. I agree that Africa is more important than ever, but just handing them aid is a recipe for disaster.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    I never ignore Africa. I listen to that song daily.

  • Bliffle

    Isn’t there a lot of oil in Africa? Maybe someone needs to waft the smell of African oil under the noses of Bush/Cheney to get them to pay attention.

  • Zedd

    Belizaire

    We’ve never helped anyone with no strings. Grow up. Unless you really are young, then forgive.

  • Zedd

    Marcus

    I hear about Africa every day. I listen to NPR and the BBC. I knew about Afganistan, Al Qaeda, The Telaban before all of the madness insued. I knew that there were no WMDs and I know that Iran is not EVIL.

    The information is out there. Heck Oprah talks about parts of Africa monthly.

    WE DONT LISTEN as a country. If its not about us or doesn’t pump us up and tell us that we are great, we don’t care

  • Zedd

    Mathew

    Are you from Africa??

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    No, but I bless the rains down there.

  • anon

    From the title of the article I was expecting to find some reason why we cant ignore Africa. But after reading the article, you have given NO REASON WHATSOEVER why we can’t ignore them like we have been doing so long. Its just a lot of hippy whining. What did all the Africans do to survive before the USA existed? Oh yeah, lots of the died every year. Whats that called again….. natural selection!

    I’d rather worry about the people in our own country that are living under poverty. When we have solved all of our own problems, then I will worry about Africa. Its not like Africa (or its problems) are going anywhere any time soon. If their own leaders cant keep them from raping and murdering each other, what makes you think they will listen to people they dispise?

    It’s like the (false) assumption that we can end world hunger. I think the Africans have showed us time and time again that they will produce more kids then they can feed regardless of the available food in the region. So how do you stop hunger if they always need more? It’s a vicious cycle. The Earth can only support so many humans. You have to draw the line somewhere.

  • anon

    You should rename the article “Everyone says they want to help Africa but no one actually does anything.” But then nobody would read it because we already know this.

    What exactly is the price of ignoring Africa? They might resent us further? is that even a reason? they might resent us for helping them.

  • http://blogs.epicindia.com/leapinthedark Richard Marcus

    Sussman

    Thanks

    Richard

  • pete

    No strings attached aid. Sounds like a fantasy world, like the one where communism actually works.

    Lets look at Zimbabwe. 15 years ago it was doing great. They had a healthy economy, and even used to export food.
    Then Robert Mugabe becomes “President”. First he drives all the white farm owners from the country, and gives their farms to africans(thanks for the farm whitey). Fast forward 15 years, the countrys economy has collapsed, the people live on rats, they dont export jack squat. Rather than their “President” (who serves for life) being realistic about their problems (highest AIDS rate of any african country) he pats himself on the back and says expelling whitey was the best thing that ever happened to the country. Have their people benifited from their white liberation any? Not that I can tell. But at least the president lives comfortably.

    So what is the incentive to aid Zimbabwe? To have them spit in the wests face again? to watch them waste everything they had all over again?

    I think Africans are going to have to stop ignoring Africa before anyone else is going to.

  • 1234

    Isn’t the national pasttime of Nigeria defrauding westerners? How does a country with so many millionaire princes need aid?

    Seems to me half of Africa is a lawless wasteland. Throwing money at them isnt going to make it all better.

    Africa is going to just have to go through the slow process of national development to industrialized standards like everyone else. The whole continent being isolated from industraliazed nations isnt going to speed it up either.

  • haha

    I think it is ironic that the article discusses everyone wanting to help Africa for their own reasons. Then Zedd posts the comment about Oprah talking about Africa every month. Is it because she is black?
    What white/asian/etc talk show hosts talk about Africa every month?

  • Zedd

    People

    Africa is a continent not a country. You cant discuss one country and say because of what happened in this country we should not help AFRICA.

    America has 3,718,695 square miles. Africa is 11,668,545 square miles. Its a big place. You cant talk about it as if its Rhode Island.

    Zimbabwe is a small country. Its 150,871 sq mi.
    To talk about Zimbabwe as if it is AFRICA is ridiculous.

  • Zedd

    haha

    My point was that, its not that we don’t know what is going on, its the “we” don’t care.

  • Zedd

    [Entire comment deleted. Zedd, I admire your energetic contribution to the comments stream but would ask that you refrain from personal attacks and insults. Thank you. Comments Editor]

  • Zedd

    pete

    The economy of Zimbabwe is affected by a number of factors.

    1. Zimbabwe and the region has experienced perhaps the worst drought of the century

    2. Whites made up less than 1% of the population but held 70% of the country’s commercially viable arable land. (Sounds like you think that was a good thing). Off course that needed to be corrected. While many people were being trained in horticulture/agriculture, the demand for reparations after 20 years of liberation forced extreme measures. People who are not familiar with commercial farming practices were given and sold farms, in the worst drought, failed. White farmers did not want to give up the power that they had gained under Zims version of apartheid. They were forced to give up the land that their ancestors had stolen from Africans.

    3. The compulsory land redistribution program in 2000 led to a sharp decline in agricultural exports, traditionally one of the country’s leading export producing sector. As a result, Zimbabwe is currently experiencing a severe hard currency shortage, which has as led to hyperinflation and chronic shortages in imported fuel and consumer goods.

    So yes, Western countries didn’t like that whites were being asked to give up the spoils of their oppressive past and give it back to the people that they stole them from. They made Zimbabwe PAY for daring to demand a righting of a WRONG!

    Mugabe IS nutty but not on this point. He’s 82, he’ll die soon. What will be the excuse after that?

    I don’t have to tell you that your comments are bigoted. Judging from your statements you’re probably proud of that.

  • Clavos

    2. Whites made up less than 1% of the population but held 70% of the country’s commercially viable arable land. (Sounds like you think that was a good thing). Off course that needed to be corrected. While many people were being trained in horticulture/agriculture, the demand for reparations after 20 years of liberation forced extreme measures. People who are not familiar with commercial farming practices were given and sold farms, in the worst drought, failed. White farmers did not want to give up the power that they had gained under Zims version of apartheid. They were forced to give up the land that their ancestors had stolen from Africans.

    3. The compulsory land redistribution program in 2000 led to a sharp decline in agricultural exports, traditionally one of the country’s leading export producing sector. As a result, Zimbabwe is currently experiencing a severe hard currency shortage, which has as led to hyperinflation and chronic shortages in imported fuel and consumer goods.

    So much for “land reform.”

  • Zedd

    1234 sez:Isn’t the national pasttime of Nigeria defrauding westerners? How does a country with so many millionaire princes need aid?

    Seems to me half of Africa is a lawless wasteland. Throwing money at them isnt going to make it all better.

    How have you made this assesment? Have you been there?

    If I went to your town and showed the industrial district, then went to the trailer park and said that THIS is America, the world would not have an accurate picture of America, even if that is a truthful report.

    Go to Africa and then post. Most people’s LIVES are changed by the beauty, the love and the earnestness of the entire typography including th people.

    The celebrities don’t hang out there because they are just givers. They are renewed as human beings. It’s a powerful place. So be slow to speak.

    Nigeria has major problems and yes it is corrupt!! But again, it is a country within a continent. Its like saying because Croatia is a mess all of Europe should be dismantled. Your statmement is equally ridiculous.

    I know.. all non whites are all alike right. We make a HUGE distiction between the Spanish and the Italian or Greek. But Africans are pretty much the same. SHAME!!!

  • Zedd

    Clavos sez:So much for “land reform.”

    Could you expound.

    You tend to have an interesting perspective when it comes to international matters.

  • Clavos

    Clavos sez:So much for “land reform.”

    Could you expound.

    I did. With your words, in #18.

  • RedTard

    Zedd,

    Your comments are those of a bigoted moron in their own right. Underlying everyone of your ilks basic assumptions is that western whites are both evil and conspiratorial as well as extremely clever with almost unlimited power and other races are helpless simpletons incapable of controlling their own destinies. If Zimbabwe starves, hey that’s the evil genius whitey taking advantage of the poor little old negroes.

    I personally find that offensive and damaging on multiple levels. Let Africa pull itself up by the bootstraps. Offer technical assistance, photo op dinners with the leaders, and any needed advice otherwise, stay the hell out of the way and let their societies evolve along their own paths. If private charities want to throw their basic economies off and put their farmers and other industries out of business with free goods then let them, but I don’t want the fruits of my labor taken by force and sent to help create the world’s first eternally dependent welfare continent.

  • Zedd

    Clavos and pete

    When Mugabe won elections in 1980, he reassured white landowners that they had nothing to fear from black majority rule. Mugabe accepted a “willing buyer, willing seller” plan as part of the Lancaster House Agreement of 1979, among other concessions to the White minority. As part of this agreement, land redistribution was locked up for a period of 10 years

    By 1997, the “willing buyer, willing seller” land reform program had broken down after the new British government led by Tony Blair unilaterally decided to stop funding it. With the Labour party gaining power and old imperial values being set aside, members of his government felt themselves under no obligation to continue paying White farmers compensation, or in minister Clare Short’s words, “I should make it clear that we do not accept that Britain has a special responsibility to meet the costs of land purchase in Zimbabwe. We are a new Government from diverse backgrounds without links to former colonial interests. Rhodesia, now Zimbabwe was a United Kingdom “possession” till 1890s-1970.

    That’s the real story pete.

    Btw. Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) was named after Cecile Rhodes a known racist imperialist He was the founder of the diamond company De Beers, which today controls 60% of the world’s diamonds and at one time controlled 90% of the world’s diamonds. Now we know what Apartheid was about.

  • Zedd

    RedTard

    America pulled itself up by AFRICAs bootstrap.

    Remember those centuries of free HARD labor, that build this country from its conception?

    Sorry there is no white supremacy. Just short memories and revisionist history.

    We need to do the right thing.

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    You reposted what I said. I know.

    But what about what I said were you refering to.

  • STM

    Zedd: the one thing you neglect to mention about white farmers stealing the land from Africans: in Zimbabwe, there was no culture of land ownership, and only limited keeping of domestic animals and growing of crops after white settlement.

    This whole bloody argument of yours concerning the so-called “land reforms” is a lot of ill-informed nonsense. It was out and out theft often motivated by pure thuggery and it’s backfired big time. Mugabe’s regime is oppresive and racist, and the worst part is that most progressive whites who stayed in Zimbabwe, rather than flee to white rule in apartheid South Africa, were keen to embrace the change to black rule. When Mugabe told them they were all Zimbabweans and there would be no oppression, they believed him. Many have now paid for that mistake with their lives.

    To my mind, there isn’t much difference between white thugs bashing up and killing blacks for swimming at the wrong beach in Durban and blacks seizing farms, burning down farmhouses and killing the owners and staff of white-run properties on the outskirts of Harare.

    You can understand the anger to a point, but the lunacy of it all, of course, is that many of the people who took over the farms were not really trained to do so and were unable to make them work (with a few exceptions).

    If you want to know why Zimbabwe can no longer feed itself, that’s the main reason. Drought may be a factor, but there has been drought before, the same as in Australia, and the farms continued to produce. Many black workers also lost their livelihoods, replaced by Mugabe-sanctioned thugs wielding guns and iron bars. It’s also a fact acknowledged by plenty of Africans who see Mugabe’s path as the wrong one. (BTW, a white person whose family goes back many generations is African, too. As one said recently: “I’m African too. My first breath was of African air.”)

    The latest incarnation of Mugabe’s racist policies even extends to the national cricket team, where non-blacks (who formed about half the side along with some top black players) were punted in favour of a cadre of less experienced black players. Among them were a couple of the team’s best players. There is no policy there now of choosing players on ability alone. That is racism.

    As a result, they have been banned from playing international cricket – a game played in equal numbers around the world by people of European and non-European background (look at the West Indies, where it’s the national sport of an entire region).

    What a joke this is, even defending Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. If you want to accuse me of racism and bigotry (a card you so readily seem to draw), I will tell you that Nelson Mandela is in my view the most inspirational world leader of the 20th century.

    To have forgiven those who persecuted him and his people, and then worked with them to create a new country where people of all races are included in the consultative and legislative process, is testament to qualities in him that go way beyond what is normal for the human condition.

    What’s been achieved in South Africa in the past 15 years couldn’t have been achieved in most other countries in 10,000 years.

    Mugabe, unfortunately, went down the other path and should be condemned unequivocally for the oppression visited on Zimbabweans of all creeds and colours – but mostly whites.

    And if you tell me they deserve it, which is what you seem to saying in a not-very-roundabout way, I will tell you that it is a crock.

  • pete

    regardless of how the whites lost the land and the natives got it (im sure both sides have their stories and facts), its painfully obvious that the white farmers were capable of farming, and the natives are not. whatever techniques they used, and im not saying they were all ethical, were able to feed the country.

    and support to an ealier commenter, considering the size of the sahara desert, the jungles and other uninhabited areas of land in africa, i would say its accuate to say that half of africa is in fact a desolate lawless wasteland.

  • robert

    Zedd, America did get some benefit from slavery. but alot of those slaves came from the caribbean too.

    secondly, America got the power it has today from the industrial revolution and the economical power it had came out of WW2. not from the 1800s.
    and you can take it to the bank the folks from every color worked themselves to death during those times to make this country what it is today. it wasnt handed to us from anyone.

    if anything your argument supports africa kidnapping americans and forcing them into a life of slavery to help build their own country. good luck.

  • Zedd

    RedTard
    I know your realize that the first black African country attained its independence from EUROPEANS in 1957. The latest was South Africa in 1994. This is a young continent it terms of self governance. You do remember that we tried to kill each other off a 100 years after we signed the Declaration of Independence. There were about a million casualties in the American civil war.

    Russia is a mess right now with crime and corruption at unheard of levels. They are a new country. The countries of the past Soviet Union are in chaos because they are young. Vietnam went bonkers after the French left and they had to start afresh. We wont talk about Israel who we do pore billions into, free.

  • 1234

    zedd

    zimbabwe was only one example. im not going to write out a story about every african country, although i probably could. nigeria was pointed out already, hah.

    i bet they wouldnt need so much aids vacinations if their wasnt so much rapant rape in sub-sahara africa. and its not aids infected foreigners coming to infect the continent. issues like this the africans should be putting an end to themselves.

  • Zedd

    Robert Sez:Zedd, America did get some benefit from slavery.

    Some help??? It was free labor for hundreds of years. ARE YOU SERIOUS???? Listen you cant be taken seriously if you start of with such a statement. Black labor built this country. Montechello— slaves.

    Robert also sez: But alot of those slaves came from the caribbean too.

    DUDE, the slaves from the carribean were AFRICANS. My goodness???!!!???

  • robert

    i see you forgot to address the focus of my arguement (which seems frequent from your posts) which was that WW2 and the industrial revolution being far more critical to americas power than slavery in the colonial periods.

    what country DIDNT have slaves back in the colonial period. i think the only difference is that in america it was exclusivly whites owning blacks as slaves. slavery itself is nothing new. and it sure as hell didnt make us a superpower we are today (which already gives a vastly larger ammount of aid to the world than any other country).

  • robert

    need i mention that in the colonial times the north had little to no slavery and was kicking that crap out of the south economically. which was later proved out in the civil war. which goes to show many white americans died to give blacks their freedom here in america.

    anyways, we are starting to get pretty far off point from the article we are commenting on.

  • STM

    Robert said: “Zedd, America did get some benefit from slavery. but alot of those slaves came from the caribbean too.”

    You have to joking mate. Some benefit. Geez. US agricultural production was founded on black slave labour, including the growing of cotton and tobacco, both commodities sought-after worldwide. And only a minute number of slaves came from the British colonies in the Caribbean prior to the American Revolution, but some did come from the non-British Spanish and French islands.

    In fact, the British began to institute their own world-wide ban on slavery in about 1809, with ships of the Royal Navy tasked to stop and board slave ships crossing the north and south Atlantic and free all slaves on board. During the War of 1812 against the US, slaves freed in actions or during raids by British troops on the United States mainland were offered the chance to fight for the Crown (many did, including a whole unit of Royal Marines at the Battle of Bladensburg which immediately preceded the burning of Washington) and passage was offered for them and their families to the West Indies, where they were given substantial land grants.

    Many are still farming the same land and some islands today in the West Indies have plenty of descendants of those freed slaves.

    However, none of this addresses Zedd’s ill-informed critique on race-hatred against whites in Zimbabwe. If I didn’t know better Zedd, I’d accuse you of being racist.

  • haha

    Quote from Zedd:
    Russia is a mess right now with crime and corruption at unheard of levels. They are a new country. The countries of the past Soviet Union are in chaos because they are young. Vietnam went bonkers after the French left and they had to start afresh. We wont talk about Israel who we do pore billions into, free.

    by god you’re right. we should split the aid 50/50 between africa and russia.

    also, isreal is a completely different issues. im sure history would have smiled on the US for turning their back on the jews and let the arabs slaughter them like the nazis did.
    isreal can feed themselves and have a powerful economy, and produce alot of cutting edge technologies. we have incentive to keep pumping money into them.

  • Zedd

    STM

    Grazing lands and farming lands WERE designated in Shona and Ndebele cultures. These were not hunter gatherer societies. Also this was just at the turn of the century. These nations came froma long line of farmers who migrated thousands ago into the south of Africa. The concept of ownership did not exist but the USE and designation by function did.

    How does a person come into your home and decide that you don’t do things like they do at their house and just make camp an institute their methods, telling you that you cant have your house back because you don’t manage it like they do. SMT that is ridiculous.

    You do understand that the people who went into those white farmers homes had been oppressed by those same farmers for a hundred years. They were made to address them as Boss. BOSS SMT. Not allowed to look at them in the eye. Were not allowed to come into the house unless they were servants. In the land of their fathers. IN AFRICA!!! The people who were attacking were old chimurenga fighters from the bush wars. They waited for the benefits of their labor and they didn’t see them. These farmers held weapons against them during the revolution.

    More over, you forget Britain’s role. Read post #23. These farmers were supposed to be bought out by the British government as a form of reparations by the UK for the role… They quit payments to the farmers and the farmers decided to stay. Well they didn’t have a right to JUST STAY. It wasn’t their country.

    Mugabe had been promising that the land reform would come since his first election into office in 1980. Every election he would promise, trusting that the British would keep their bargain. When the British reneged, all hell broke loose. What was he going to say?? I guess we won’t be getting our land after all. The whites won’t let us?

    The people attacked. What do you expect? I mean really. After 100yrs of hard oppression??

    You forget this is IN AFRICA. You can not make a single argument about land ownership or land rights IN AFRICA for millions of European racists and NOne for Africans.

  • STM

    And Zedd, read my post further up on the real reason Zimbabwe can’t feed itself.

    I notice you ignored it. It’s all true, BTW. Mugabe’s thugs are the cause of the problem, not the drought.

  • Zedd

    haha sez: also, isreal is a completely different issues. im sure history would have smiled on the US for turning their back on the jews and let the arabs slaughter them like the nazis did.

    So dead Jews BAD. Dead Africans ehh who cares.

    ha ha indeed.

    What do YOU call that. What makes what you just said okay to you??

  • Zedd

    SMT

    I agree that Mugabe is insane and should be delt with.

    But as for the land issue, if you understand the real issue and the role the Britain never owns up to, you understand.

  • someguy

    so the article says that if we ignore africa they will resent us? and they might be the next frontier on terrorism.

    well on the first, we already give Africa a ton of aid, and they still resent us. Is there a magical dollar ammount where resentment turns to praise?

    on the second, isnt that more an issue on radical islam than humanitarian aid?

    i am going to continue to ignore Africa. I’ll check back in 10 years.

  • haha

    The US isnt killing Africans.

    I do believe that the US would have been blamed if we didnt help Isreal. Noone else seems to want to. The jews subject the genocide at the hands of the Germans, and significant portion of their people wiped from the planet.

    The Africans mostly die of fighting with themselves, disease and starvation. I dont see why americas actions are to bame for this.

  • haha

    I got a question for you Zedd.

    Why do YOU think we can no longer ignore Africa? What is this tipping point we are comming across?

    The way I see it, things are as they have been, and I dont see whats gonna make things any different.

  • Zedd

    SMT

    I don’t know about Australia but in Southern Africa the farmers were THE rednecks. Imagine the hard nosed, butch guys of the outback combined with the scary Southern American racists in the movies combined with the gastopo. Many of them were Boers. I’m sure you’ve met them because many of them ran to Australia. They were certainly not going to tell you that “you know we were the hardest of all racist in Zimbabwe. We made people get on their knees before they handed anything to us. We treated our worker like animals. We refered to old men by their first name or by the name “boy”(knowing what a major insult it is in their culture); yet demanded that they call us Mr or Boss. We gave arbitrary names to our maids. Sheila or Mary were the ones that we liked despite what their real names were (even though they had english names that we could pronounce). We molested many women, hence the large population of mixed race people”.

    These are your victims??

    A good bash in the head was sort of deserved SMT.

    We are agreed that Mugabe is crazy and needs to be dealt with. However the Brits are in no place to make any judgements against him. He will die soon though.

  • Zedd

    haha

    You see things that way because you don’t really keep up with issues that affect YOUR world. You hear a single line and think you know the entire story. Also, you cant plunder and kill a great people with warm hearts and wonderful traditions. Africa has been lied on in order to make the plundering plaletable. Now the self fullfiling prophesy is in full affect and YOU say, “see!”….

    Because its time to end the madness.

    1. We, along with the greatest European economies have plundered this continent since the 1500 and even beyond. We have LIED on this continent so that we can continue to steal from it for centuries. When they were being liberated, it was from Western hands.

    2. We have created chaos and contributed to coupe de tas for decades then set back and tisked while we were making all sorts of financial deals with crooks and people were dying.

    3. Because we are maturing and evolving in our compassion for humanity. We now understand our role in the world and are coming into our position, which is, THE LEADER of the world. We have no one else to look to. We are it. If our planet is screwed up and innocent people are dying it is the LEADER who looks to see what needs to be done. If we are not ready for the responsibility, I am sure that others will be more than glad to take it on. Right now our giving based on a per capita basis places us close to 20th place in the world. Some leader.

  • Zedd

    haha

    Jews were Europeans when they were in Europe. So Europeans were fighting amoung themselves?

    Jews are Middle Easterners right now. So isn’t it Middle Easterners fighting amoung themselves?

    What is the difference other than RACE. Help me to see this.

    You see my friend, you see the Jews humanity. You dont see the Africans humanity. You cant even see them as being separate countries with different issues. Just a sea of Black people… who cares right?? Shame on you. Fix this man!!

  • Zedd

    someguy sez: well on the first, we already give Africa a ton of aid, and they still resent us. Is there a magical dollar ammount where resentment turns to praise?

    Who? Is there a guy named Africa that you know?? Africa is a CONTINENT. Which country do we give tons of aid to. Your ideas are imaginary. We don’t. You didn’t even bother to check your statement before you posted. You just think We are always helping THEM. WHO?? Yes we aid Egypt rather generously. I bet you weren’t thinking about Egypt though were you???

    I would hate for your child or family member to suffer tragedy and need help and someone to say, I’ll check back in ten years with you.

    These are REAL PEOPLE who are loved just like you are. Just like you love (or will love) your children. NO less!!

    Life is tough, someguy. You don’t want to test fate. Perhaps you will learn the lesson of compassion the hard way. Perhaps your fate is to be a generous person and today you will begin your reform, kicking and screaming. Be slow to speak young man.

  • STM

    Yes, I’m sure all those things you describe did happen in colonial southern Africa in the 1800s or at the turn of the century up to WWI. Ian Smith, too, certainly took his lead from the Afrikaners in Pretoria in declaring an apartheid nation upon his ascent to power in Salisbury, but if you damn well read my bloody post above in FULL for once, you will see that only some of the rednecks ran to South Africa and Australia/New Zealand, Canada, England, the US, etc when Smith relinquished his power as PM of Rhodesia.

    Many stayed, hating apartheid, hating Smith’s racism, and believing in and embracing Mugabe’s promises of a multi-racial society with no backlash against colonial/white rule.

    Mugabe broke the promise, unlike Mandela (a true African hero), and has ruined Zimbabwe. A country that used to GIVE AWAY a huge amount of surplus food to much of the rest of Africa now needs to be given aid of about the same amount just to feed (barely) many of its citizens.

    It is down to the violent thugs of Mugabe’s Zanu-PF party, who displaced black workers from the farms as well and set themselves up only to fail – because they had no bloody experience of farming.

    If they had left many of the experienced black former farm workers to run these places, there would not be this problem. Of course, they didn’t because they wanted the farms for themselves. It is about two things: greed and retribution.

    In my view, much of what you write has anti-white racist overtones and sounds unbelieveably bigoted.

    Bigotry is bigotry no matter what colour of skin one is talking about.

    As you accused me recently of being a bigot and not realising it, I am saying the same thing about you. You should examine why you think this way, Zedd.

  • Zedd

    SMT

    The drought killed Lesotho, Botswana, Swaziland and parts of South Africa. It IS the problem. You cant farm with the worse drought in modern history.

    I don’t recall you calling those racist farmers thugs. I wonder why????

  • STM

    And most of the farmers who stayed on in Zimbabwe were of British descent, and not Boers. Most were keen to embrace the new multi-racial society, having an inherent dislike for Boer separatist and racist cultural ideals. Those people were betrayed. Many were also killed.

    Whites in Zimbabwe are still being betrayed today.

  • Zedd

    SMT

    Are you kidding??? How dare you ask me such a question. What do you think I am going to say? That is like admonishing someone for having anti-Nazi overtones then calling them a bigot for not liking Nazis.

    YES I an anti-white racist!!!!! They are the bad guys SMT!!!. After a war you don’t get to hang around and farm after comminting all sorts of atrocities even if you are White and the victims are Black. The Zimbabweans were patient for 17 years.

    The Nazis ran all over the world escaping their deads. Knowing that they had screwed up and that they might have to pay for their CRIMES.

    The racists were cruel criminals AND they expected to continue like nothing had happened. I AM anti them.

    I should be saying to you that you sound like a white racist supporter.

    Are you PRO white racist???

    Why are you not acknowledging the UK’s HUGE role in causing the breakdown of a patient and peaceful relationship with this criminals? SMT THAT was the cause.. Britains actions.

  • STM

    Zedd wrote: “The drought killed Lesotho, Botswana, Swaziland and parts of South Africa. It IS the problem. You cant farm with the worse drought in modern history.”

    Bullsh.it. They’ve had drought before. We have the world’s worst drought in Australia at the moment and the farmers are still producing. What a lot of ill-informed bollocks you write Zedd. I bet you have never even worked on the land.

    You are the worst kind of racist: one who tells others not to be while engaging in exactly the same behaviour you seek to condemn.

    And do your damn homework before you come on here arguing about this. It is the Zanu-PF thugs who have left Zimbabwe unable to feed itself.

    And I’ll ask this question: why is Zimbabwe banned from playing international cricket by a world body that has more member nations of non-European background than of European?

    A: because Robert Mugabe is a racist thug who doesn’t want any whites in “his” team (they only made up about half the side, BTW).

    It is a racist society just as much as South Africa was under apartheid.

  • haha

    im not saying the Israelis dont have blood on their hands.

    i am saying the US has plenty of reasons to pump money into them. more reasons then they have to pump money into africa.

    israel seems to be doing well with what they were given. not the same can be said for the various governments now controlling africa. the countries that need the most aid are countries like zimbabwe, where they are being screwed over by their own people. its not americas fault. its not the jews fault.
    and seeing that it isnt americas fault, why cant i continue to ignore it?

  • haha

    i donated to charity today. it was cancer research, because that is going somewhere.
    even people in Africa get cancer. everyone wins.

  • STM

    Zedd: “YES I an anti-white racist!!!!!”

    Then why am I even discussing this with you. I despise racism of any kind.

    And you have continued, wrongly, to assume that my family background is white. It is, but not completely. I have been affected too and feared for my son a few years back when he went to a Catholic boarding school but his aboriginality was celebrated there as something special, as it is in most parts of this country today. Perhaps your own views are based largely on fear.

    I am sorry Zedd, but those views you profess about being anti-white make me sick to my stomach. It’s the apparent hypocrisy I can’t stomach. Perhaps you don’t realise what you are doing.

  • Zedd

    SMT sez:And most of the farmers who stayed on in Zimbabwe were of British descent, and not Boers. Most were keen to embrace the new multi-racial society, having an inherent dislike for Boer separatist and racist cultural ideals. Those people were betrayed. Many were also killed.

    I say: The killings were a terrible thing. It was sad and disheartening.

    SMT no those farmers were not embracing a new society. They were embracing the Zimbabwean Dollar. I understand that most of them weren’t Afrikaners, Rhodesia was not inhabited by as many Boers as South Africa and Namibia. Where were these multi-culti farmers during the time of oppression? They were oppressing!! (like Nazis). They chose to separate from Britain in 1970 so that they could continue their racist’s ways. Smith was British, they were the majority and they supported him. When he said, “on my dead body” when he was asked about black liberation, none of them protested. They just kept ordering “Mary” around.

    I bet the Nazis who ran all over the world were all for a fair society after their thuggery was put to a halt WITH BOMBS (not patience).

    There was no Truth and Reconciliation Commission in Zimbabwe. No one confessed or apologized. These guys were farmers who wanted to keep their land and the profits with cheap, nearly free labor and their AMAZING lifestyle. They had house keepers and washing “girls” (50 yr old women), and garden “boys” (someone’s grand father). They lived like no other European on the planet, all with the beautiful backdrop of Africa.

    Those farmers were the thugs. Not old men who wanted their dignity after waiting and fighting for it for years in the bush. Those farmers were on TV with guns talking smack defiantly. I mean how much can a man take?

    What would you do as a man, if you were in the place of those old freedom fighters that had nothing to show for the country that they fought for and yet the whites who oppressed them still lived as if nothing had happened, bragging about “their land”?

  • Zedd

    SMT

    It looks like you are hot under the collar and are making reckless statements. I normally enjoy reading your posts even when I disagree with you. Simmer down so that we can continue this conversation.

    SMT sez: It is a racist society just as much as South Africa was under apartheid.

    Not true by any means. No whites are being called boy. No whites are being called “Mary” or being forced to call all blacks “boss”. Many whites have businessess in Harare and Bulawayo today. They are not bothered. They live in their beautiful suburban homes, some mansions.

    Dont insult the struggle of the Zimbabwean people because you want to win an argument with a beautiful SOUTH AFRICAN (shhh) ex pat on the web.

    I know what I’m talking about SMT.

  • Zedd

    SMT

    Stop being dramatic. Its unmasculine.

    You know full well that I didn’t say that I was anti white. I said I was ANTI WHITE RACIST. Anti racist, anti racist. Is that a bad thing??

    Are YOU pro white racist??? You support white racists??

    Ummmmmmmm that’s not a good thing SMT.

    Are we in the Twilight Zone?

    You act as if I should feel guilty for not liking racists….. Perhaps the whole down under thing turns everything upside down.. good is bad and bad is good.

  • STM

    I was about to apologise before your last post, but the site crashed nicely just as I was posting. You’ve obviously suffered under that awful regime, or at least been mortified by it and that must certainly colour your views.

    Here’s a couple of things I can tell you: I know a bit about it as I’m a rugby man from way back. I have a world champion sports star friend, who we supported in the ’80s when he refused to compete in Sth Africa, even though it might have cost him the world title, because all of us as a group were determined none should show support to that regime. He wanted to talk about what he should do as it was affecting him after a previous visit and he decided to stay home.

    There is also the fairly major matter of my own family.

    Perhaps we should do what we decided before: agree to disagree. I am sorry if I upset you, but I believe in full and total reconciliation. As Nelson Mandela has so wisely recognised, at some point the hatchet needs to be buried, and preferably not in someone else’s head – or the hate just goes on.

    Did you go to the US, BTW, or Europe. You are always posting late so I though you might be nearer to Oz than the US.

  • Zedd

    robert sez: need i mention that in the colonial times the north had little to no slavery and was kicking that crap out of the south economically.

    Colonial times??? ummm George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and all of “our” founding fathers had slaves. What are YOU talking about. Did you mean the civil war error???…. Nope there were slaves in the north.

    Ummmm Whites enslaved blacks. Who was supposed to free them??? Mexicans?

    The civil war was NOT about freeing slaves.

  • Zedd

    SMT sez: Perhaps we should do what we decided before: agree to disagree. I am sorry if I upset you, but I believe in full and total reconciliation. As Nelson Mandela has so wisely recognised, at some point the hatchet needs to be buried, and preferably not in someone else’s head – or the hate just goes on.

    No you didn’t upset me at all. Like I said, I enjoy dialouge with you.

    I expect not to agree with you. I don’t mind that. I actually apreciate it. Its great mental work when I get in the ring with you. Most of the time I am just rolling my eyes but with you, I get a great challange. Its a good thing.

    I think that the issue of race is so under discussed that a lot of people dont understand it or even care to understand it. It is however one of the most pervasive cancers in our world.

    I’m also multi culti like your son :o). I sound like a yanky. My first husband was Zimbabwean hence the detailed knowledge.

    What South Africa did (not just Mandela), is unheard of. It was a beautiful thing that humans don’t do usually.

  • Zedd

    SMT

    I am in the US. Came here rather young and currently an insomniac. I hope to get over it. I m convalescing and sometimes in a little discomfort. Still cute though :o) BC is a wonderful distraction.

    However, I work on my lap top so I don’t have a time card to punch in. It was good at first but I am over it and ready for the politics and back bighting of corporate America (well not quite). But I enjoy some of the challange that a work place offers. No I know nothing about working the land. I know Jo’Burg, yes Durban and a major Metropolis in the USA which is my home sweet home and great travel in Europe. I love the UK..

  • http://yuvi-internetsecurity.blogspot.com Yuvaraj

    It might take a few more decades to to develop Africa…….. Because till date I feel the technology have not been upfronted. But hope it willl in globalization

  • Zedd

    haha

    Could it be that the Israelis are doing well because they are helped the MOST??? They are protected in so many ways. They get to break UN mandates and other countries in the region are held accountable for the same things.

    Why??

    They have been reckless with our generosity, continuing to antagonize their neighbors like spoiled brats, knowing that WE will continue with the BILLIONS.

    Israels condition or situation is not our fault either. The Holacaust was not our fault. Its is not to our benefit to be their friends either. 911 can be traced back to our love of Israel. They pick on their neigbors, we bail them out and people hate us for it.

    Why are you ok with us helping them and not helping people who really need it? Its because you don’t see them as HUMAN enough.

    To much is given, much is required.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Richard,

    I decided to read this article a second time in light of the arguments that have followed on in the comment section.

    May I suggest to you that the issue here is not that insufficient attention is paid to Africa, but rather that all the wrong kind of attention is paid to Africa, and all too much of it.

    Africa has always been regarded as a source of cheap labor and cheap resources. For centuries, Arabs made fortunes buying and selling African slaves, ivory and gold. After driving Arabs from much of the commercial field, Europeans did the same.

    Africa was divvied up by various Europeans powers a century and a quarter ago with no reference to the native tribes that lived there, and which had created civilizations there. For the most part, Europeans took advantage of superior technology to exploit Africans, enslaving them on the lands they had lived on for millennia. In addition, African slaves exported top the Americas provided the cheap labor that built up the Caribbean, and the various states of the United States, mostly, but not entirely, in the south.

    The problems faced in modern Africa are simply that the whites who exploited the place have mostly picked up and gone, leaving only armed guards to protect the corporate resources they rely on, and black crooks, (like Mugabe) to steal the natives blind in a nightmare of disease and deprivation. The rest of the problems on the continent flow from the wrong borders, crooks running the “governments”, and whites exploiting the continent from afar.

    Starvation, AIDS, disease generally, genocide, all of which plague the continent, are the results of the three causes noted above.

    Until the root causes are addressed, the consequences will only worsen and multiply. This is not an issue of “aid,” or of “charity” or of good-will. Like many of the other problems we all face, it is a matter of being determined to do the right things to benefit the planet. The phrase in Hebrew is “tikkun ‘olam” – repairing the world.

    A side note to Zedd:

    If you can set aside your Jew-hatred and dislike of the State of Israel, you might find you have an ally in me instead of an adversary.

    I am a student of history, politics, and public administration and have studied history and politics far beyond the course curricula in my university studies.

    In addition, if you can set aside your assumption that every white man is a devil of exploitation, you might discover an ally in STM as well.

  • Lumpy

    There’s evil and then there’s exploitation. Not the same thing.

    The real question is whether people are better off now than under white rule. The answer is that for all its flaws white rule kept people fed, employed and alive. That’s a hell of a lot better than starving and/or shot.

    It’s ultimately all about the land and the whites were better stewards of the land.

  • Zedd

    Ruvy

    I don’t hate Jews. I love my Jewish bretheren (the friends and neighbors that I have). I hate what the state of Israel is doing.

    I was raised to believe that the children of Israel are God’s people. But as a member of socieity, I cant use that belief to justify any civic action. I know that my belief is just my belief. I understand just how crazy that belief sounds to everyone else. I mean think about it. How many times have you seen people turn into salt…. its a little wacky.

    I just posted on the other page how dramatic semites are (Jewish and Arab). Your statement is dramatic. Who said anything about HATE. Calm down. I just disagree with what Israel is doing. I don’t know everyone or anyone in Israel, how can I hate them?

    I do know that SMT is an ally of sorts. I do read Ruvy. I don’t have to agree with everything he says. Ruvy (drama queen) its not all or nothing. You can disagree vehemently about a topic and still find areas of allience. This is the case with EVERYONE and every relationship. Who said I don’t regard him as an ally? He is wrong about Zimbabwe but his heart is in the right place for sure. I respect him a great deal and he knows it. What are YOU on about.

    I don’t hate (theres that extreme word again) whites either. I don’t like what Europeans do and have done to none Whites. Do you? You have posted a number of times supporting my very sentiments. Actually you just did again. I don’t think you hate Whites…. I DON’T LIKE that most whites don’t even know how they affect everyone else or how accommodated by others they are. I shouldn’t like that, should I?

    No I don’t hate anyone actually. I don’t understand that emotion. People are complex and possess too many qualities to simplify them by one character trait. I hate evil deeds and I hate hiding them or lying about them. I hate when blame is placed on the victim, especially because the victim is often powerless. I hate the spin that is the foundation of modern society.

    Machaivelli let pendora out of the box and lying has become honorable. No wonder they thought him to be evil in his time.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “Machiavelli let Pandora out of the box and lying has become honorable. No wonder they thought him to be evil in his time.”

    I hear you, Zedd. Now hear me. Machiavelli was a patriot whose goal was to unite the Italian peninsula against the foreigners who exploited it. The work he is most known for, “The Prince,” was his gift to the man who kicked him out of his job as a mid-level Florentine bureaucrat, but who let him live.

    In fact, it was his CV.

  • Zedd

    Lumpy

    Better in what way? Would you rather eat and be fat but be considered an animal or an inferior thing? Never being looked at as who you are. Being required to lower your eyes and pretend to be an embacile just for the gratification of some teenager who will tell Daddy if you don’t obey? Would you rather your wife be treated like a child, ordered around and asked to perform duties that no woman would ever be asked to, while you sit around helpless?

    What do you mean by better? How are you measuring that??

    By the way. Its not as if Africans were living high on the hog under colonial rule.

    Zimbabweans were not as poor but they were still poor.

  • Zedd

    Lumpy sez: It’s ultimately all about the land and the whites were better stewards of the land

    Its not all about the land. Its about the people.

    Also, the Zimbabweans just gained control of their land in 1997. Thats NINE years ago. What are YOU talking about? Don’t you think they need just a little bit more time???

    Why does your statment make sense to you?? Please atleast wiki before making silly comments like that.

  • Lumpy

    To go a step further, there are three possible outcomes when primitive and more advanced societies come into contact. The first is for the more advanced people to leave the primitives isolated. The second is to trade and interract with them on a mercantile basis. The third is to colonize and dominate them. The first approach can’t be sustained indefinitely. The second option is almost always a disaster. The third, though looked down on these days, is actually the best way to make a transition from primitivism to modernism. Colonialism may appear exploitative, but if you believe that civilization is better than primitivism, it’s a practical way to spread it under controlled conditions. Just having ongoing contact has a terrible corrupting effect, where you get the negatives of civilization without the benefits. Civilization is danferous in the hands of those unprepared to deal with it.

  • Zedd

    Ruvy

    Why do you feel as if you have to tell me who Machiavelli was when it was me who brought him up???

    In my youth and naivety I felt the way that you do about him. I now see him as an opportunist, manipulator and a great liar. He parsed and slithered. People like Henri Kissinger (the great manipulator) whom I used to admire, are said to have patterned their ideas by Machiavelli; so do many dictators.

    I have a well worn copy of The Prince. I also keep Sun Tzu, The Art of War near my bed. I am a practical thinker so both works appeal to me because that is how my mind works. I think that many people think with their emotions and tend to overlook the glaring crux of any dispute. Once one understands the essence of a matter, than one can fix, resolve, manipulate or dominate. Most people never see the core and are distracted therefore making themselves targets of unsavory characters who do see the big picture.

    I like to state big concepts simply sometimes. So, making people think that you are right (Machiavelli) should not always be the goal. Being righteous is most admirable. For us humans, that is the one way to attain happiness.

    Machiavelli was Karl Rove, a spinner. While shrewdness should be admired, one has to know at what point a strategy turns into just a big lie. Unfortunately human nature (the flesh) wants and it is difficult to reject power when you know you could have it by lying.

    So we create a pitiful image of racist farmers…… We blame the victim… because we can.

  • Zedd

    robert sez: which already gives a vastly larger ammount of aid to the world than any other country

    Bud atleast wiki the topic before posting. We are close to 20th in giving based on a per capita bases.

    I don’t know what the stats are now, Japan with its 128,085,000 population, was out giving is, dollar to dollar (not enven cosidering the per capita element).

    Know what your country does in YOUR name.

  • robert

    Your right zedd, it is per capita. but there is a hell of a lot more people in america than there is in norway. in absolute terms we give more aid than anyone. a lot more.

    for all your efforts of painting the facts the way you like to see them, you still havnt convinced me not to continue to ignore africa.

  • robert

    ohh yeah, and i support the Israelis (over the others in the area, its not like ive done anything to support anyone there) because they arnt a backwards culture (like most of africa) or run by islamic fundemetalists.

    i see everyone else in the middle east and africa as being a hell of a lot less stable than israel.

    and dont act like its only israel doing evil stuff. all their neighbors are just as evil. at least the israeli citizens have a higher degree of freedom.

  • Samantha

    I don’t even think we should be bothering with the poeple of other countrys, not when there is more presing proplems in our own country. like poloshion, da! our oceances are dieing, they’ll be dead in about 30 years. ALL life on Earth will end if the ocences die

  • troll

    and none too soon at that

  • Clavos

    One can only hope, troll…

  • Belizaire

    Zedd seems to have replaced logic with a wiki obsession.

    It matters not one bit where the US ranks in international giving or giving to africa. It’s all wasted money so long as it goes through the hands of dictators and funds their regimes rather than actually going to help the people.

    We could do more for the people of Africa by cutting off all donations than anything else.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    Like every other continent, Africa needs investment, not donations. One way to make sure investments flow to the most deserving people is to channel funding through community based institutions like Grameen Bank, which started in Bangladesh but is also beginning to build networks in several African nations.

    This is just one of many ways assistance can be used to build up African economies toward financial independence, breaking free from the cycle of dependence and despotism.

    If we fail to do this, as Richard pointed out, sooner or later the chaos we have sown in Africa will return to haunt the cities of Europe and America.

  • Zedd

    Robert sez: in absolute terms we give more aid than anyone. a lot more.

    Thats not true either. Look it up.

    As far as Israel, have you thought about the FACT that Israel may be doing well because they are WELL supported???

  • Zedd

    Lumpy sez: To go a step further, there are three possible outcomes when primitive and more advanced societies come into contact. The first is for the more advanced people to leave the primitives isolated.

    Lumpy no one uses the word “primitive” to discribe under developed countries. Unless you are past 70, that is unforgivable. If you are older fine…

    Also, there are NO isolated people in our planet, other than perhaps the Great Andamanese, Jarawa, Onge, Sentinelese who reside in the islands near Sumatra, and we are not sure if they survived the Tsunami of 2004.

    I think that you have a very distorted perspective of Africa, heck the world. There’s cable in Africa. People in rural areas don’t use land lines, they use cell phones….

    Learn about your world. Its YOUR WORLD. It all belongs to you and while you are here, you are responsible for it, regardless of bounderies.

  • Zedd

    Belzaire:

    If you are young, please take a critical thinking course. It will change your life! You are very opinionated but you don’t care whether what you say is plausable, fact or rational. You just shoot off.

    Do yourself and everyone who will be in your path in the future and learn now to reason. There is a method and if you don’t naturally have the ability, you can learn it. I promise you, so much will be much clearer.

    Sweety you don’t know what logic is….

  • Zedd

    Victor Plenty

    Thank you for your post. I have been following the story of this bank and the use of microlending to empower the locals. Most of the lendees are women.

    I was so pleased when the founder won the Nobel Prize. He is so humble and yet poignant. His resolve is feirce and clear and yet his demeanor is balanced. What a great man. Very few people exist who are like him in our modern world.

    Thank you for sharing.

  • STM

    “Also, there are NO isolated people in our planet, other than perhaps the Great Andamanese, Jarawa, Onge, Sentinelese who reside in the islands near Sumatra, and we are not sure if they survived the Tsunami of 2004″

    Most of those in the Mentawai islands (off Sumatra) survived the tsunami, with a few exceptions – Nias being the main one.

    Many of my friends go up there on yearly surf trips (the waves are better and more consistent than Hawaii, Bali or Australia) and there are some aid programs underway led by surfers or financed by the Australian and Indonesian governments to rebuild some of the villages and provide medical help, with the child mortality rate one of the worst in the world.

    As for primitive, well: when the people on the shore are struggling to survive but are living peacefully the way they always have, while some of the surfers anchored offshore in luxury, diesel-guzzling boats think drunken food fights are the norm, who’s really primitive??

  • http://arsepoetica.typepad.com/blog/images/jackass.jpg Award Committee

    Congratulations, Zedd, your response to Belzaire just won this week’s “Pot calling the Kettle Black” Award. It should be arriving in 6 to 8 weeks.

  • robert

    Zedds canned reposnse seems to pity you for being too old/young and telling you to learn a skill he seems to lack himself.

    and the wikipedia sums only cover governmental aid. what about american philanthropists like bill gates and warren buffet? they alone give more aid than a lot of countries do.

    why dont you go ask all the mexicans and high school dropouts working at mcdonalds what they think of africas problems?

  • hmm

    what happened to all the aid they have recieved thus far? Africa only seems to be doing worse.

  • robert

    the US is running like a 500+ billion dollar deficit per year (eff you G W Bush). When that turns into a surplus, ill reconsider africa.
    then ill consider a shiney new fighter jet, faster and deadlier then all the last, and probably will ignore africa again.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “As far as Israel, have you thought about the FACT that Israel may be doing well because they are WELL supported???

    Let’s see Zedd; the US is supposed to be coughing up about $2 billion a year to this country. There are about 6.7 million of us living here. My family comprise 4 of that 6.7 million (not including the cat).

    So my share of the foreign aid comes to $1,194.03. I’ll take that in cash, please. I need every damned penny of it. Will you please see to this request?

    TIA,
    Ruvy in J-lem

    PS At 4.22 New Israeli Shekels to the dollar, that comes to NIS 5,038.80

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Zedd, you’ve certainly become a real bundle of arrogance and condescension on this thread. What is it abotu Africa which brings that self-righteousness out in you?

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Dave writes:

    Zedd, you’ve certainly become a real bundle of arrogance and condescension on this thread.

    With all due respect, Dave; “become??”

    zedd’s comments to almost everyone have been arrogant and condescending from day one on every thread on which she’s deigned to participate.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    On other threads she’s at least attempted to engage in some sort of interchange. On this one she just seems to have gone into full-on moralistic dictator mode.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    Dave

    People are dying needlessly on a daily bases. If there is nothing in my life that I see a reason to be persistent and undeterred about it is this. What is the real point of us being here? Are we really born for Playstation, the movies, a hamburger and a mortgage? What are the millions of years of evolution for? Just so we can watch TV? A tiny sacrifice, like no Mc Donald’s once a month can save a life, REALLY.

    I sent a box of clothes that my children had outgrown, to a church, in a developing country, do you know that they had and entire service to thank God for my very very tiny gesture? Dave I felt more alive upon receiving that news than I have ever. To me, we are merely existing, just waiting for our turn in the ground unless we have a sense of purpose. Politics in our country is a past time and one of my favorite engagements but impacting peoples lives in a REAL way with the little that I have, is what makes me alive, with a reason to be here, where I am at this time, with what I have.

    You see, the ignorance in our society is something that we all live with and it has become an acceptable part of our landscape. The lack of ability to really think; spitting out one liners as a substitute for contemplation is how we define ourselves now. Our obsession with being funny is nice but when a time comes for one to deliberate and nothing happens, that is a concerned. This particular blog requires thinking. People don’t know how to switch to think mode. While humor makes things fun, but simply spitting out wise cracks because you don’t have the ability to reason, is sad. What’s even more sad is when you don’t know that you are not thinking (reasoning).

    Dave, many people actually think logic is saying what you are supposed to say. They think that a quick come back is a sign of cleverness. They don’t even value data, facts or research. They REALLY don’t understand that one has to evaluate each situation afresh considering all of the elements that contribute to its existence. They believe that if what they believe makes them feel warm and fussy, than it is good, rational and best.

    We are REALLY dumb.

    Confidence is not arrogance. Everyone on these boards SHOULD be confident. We walk away from our lives to debate with the world. We had better be confident, otherwise why waste your time. We have not had any discussions that are mind benders. We’ve engaged in light volleying on topics whose information is easily attained. I am confident in my positions because I have done the homework. What’s the point in getting into a discussion if you really don’t know what you are saying? Many are just spouting off stuff that they have heard and believe it MUST be so… Dave that is not good enough. That is unacceptable for people who exist in a country where EVERYTHING is available. We have all the knowledge available to us, yet we would rather listen to sensationalized, novella like versions of knowledge (talk radio). If we are a great country we have to be great.

    Reading the contributions on these pages, one sees just how ignorant a people we are. It’s frightening! When I suggested to someone to “at least wiki the topic before commenting on it”, they actually did and came back to complain that wiki didn’t have that much information on the subject, as if that was a come back to me and as if THAT proved the point of their original argument. Absolutely no ability to reason!!! They didn’t get that I was saying that they have to research before commenting. They thought that I said for them to go to Wikipedia ….. It’s sad Dave. No concept of nuance, just thick and seemingly impenetrable.

    My confidence comes from the fact that I know what I speak of, like Adam Ash, I was born in South Africa. I however came here as a small child so this is home in every way. I have a strong background in Sociology, and Anthropology. I didn’t do that much Philosophy but what I did do, was revolutionary.

    If I realize that I am wrong, I will acknowledge it and savor the fact that I have learned something.

  • Zedd

    hmm

    What AID are you speaking of. What program? Which country?

    You see when you see something happening in Somalia, you apply it to the entire continent. Perhaps the AID was in Chad for an irrigation system that is working well and proving crops for thousands.

    When you see Darfur, you don’t realise that in Namibia a water project that we helped with is providing jobs and will contribute to a change in infrastructure for generations to come.

    Africa is a continnent, not a country.

  • Zedd

    Ruvy

    I understand you opinion about US intervention and aid.

    I was making a point though about the FACT that if you recieve the MOST help, you should be doing better.

    This was not an attack on Israel.

  • Zedd

    robert sez: for all your efforts of painting the facts the way you like to see them, you still havnt convinced me not to continue to ignore africa.

    That is a spiritual matter. I can’t convince you to do anything kind and unselfish. I think that you have to be in a certain place internally to feel compassion for strangers. I am not sure if anyone can just convice you with an argument.

    My responses have been just to erase the misconceptions about Africa.

  • Lumpy

    Your example of sending a box of clothes to a church in africa is radically different from the character of most aid which is sent in negotiable forms and through the hands of corrupt governments. The private donation direct to the recipients is a good idea. Financingg dictatorships with aid money is not.

  • Zedd

    AGOA [African Growth and Opportunity Act, signed into US law in 2000] Says if a country is to be eligible for AGOA, it has to refrain from any actions that may conflict with the US’s strategic interests.

    The war against Iraq was of strategic interest to the United States. As a result, several African members of the UN Security Council, including Cameroon, Guinea and Angola, were virtually held to ransom when the United States was seeking council support for the war in 2003.

    They came under heavy pressure. The message was clear: either you vote with us or you lose your trade privileges

  • Zedd

    90% of US aid is tied aid. Conditions for the aid tie the recipient to purchase products only from the US. Strings attached to US aid for include the obligation to buy products such as Caterpillar and John Deere tractors. All this adds up to the cost of the project.

    Eritrea, discovered it would be cheaper to build its network of railways with local expertise and resources rather than be forced to spend aid money on foreign consultants, experts, architects and engineers imposed on the country as a condition of development assistance.

    Money being doled out to Africa to fight HIV/AIDS is also a form of tied aid. Washington is insisting that the continent’s governments purchase anti-AIDS drugs from the United States instead of buying cheaper generic products from South Africa, India or Brazil.

    As a result, US brand name drugs are costing up to 15,000 dollars a year compared with 350 dollars annually for generics.

  • Zedd

    The aid that we give to developing countries is misleading.

    Our recipients spend 70% of the aid on buying American products for the projects. This is not because they don’t have the equiptment in those countries, we make the purchases a prerequisit for aid.

  • robert

    “do you know that they had and entire service to thank God for my very very tiny gesture?”

    was every days service prior to this spiting god for making their continent a hellhole to live in? or perhaps they were thanking god for the rats they had to eat yesterday. its funny how religious people will praise god for good things happening to them occasionally, but wont spite god for the overall problems constantly in their lives.

    how much aid has god donated to africa this year? last i checked his gift to africa was a drought.

  • robert

    “That is a spiritual matter. I can’t convince you to do anything kind and unselfish.”

    then you concede that there is no reason i should stop ignoring africa.

    the author titled the article to read that if we dont stop ignoring africa the world will end. noone seems be able to support this. if i ignore africa, it will be like it was yesterday, and the day before that.

    spirituality doesnt create economies. and africa needs stronger economies for its people to live better lives.

  • robert

    aid doesnt build economies either (though it can help). africa needs investiment. too bad all the governments in africa are corrupt, and there is no incentive to invest there.

    why invest when in 2 years your money and work will be naturalized, given to some croney, and run into the ground.

    i think africans are going to have to stop ignoring africa before anyone else does.

  • Zedd

    robert

    When you find the time, read my posts #98, #99, #100.

    Underneath everything that you are saying, I am reading that you are saying that it makes no sense to help African countries because it seems as if what people have been doing doesn’t seem to help.

    Read my posts and you will get an understanding of what a large part of the problem is.

    Also, you have to understand that there are countries that have improved because of aid, you just don’t here about them. There are countries that have stamped out AIDS.

    Imagine where AIDS would be in this country if we didn’t have talk shows, magazine programs, access to TV at all. Most people learned about AIDS from TV. Americans weren’t reaserching and looking for pamplets…. I don’t know if we can stand in judgement. We did nothing to be blessed. We dont read as a people. We are blessed.

    As for your comments about people expressing gratitude for a gift (the boxes that I sent) I don’t know what to say to you about that. I didn’t get why you posted that and what your point was. In the country that I sent the items to, they don’t hunt rats…. What are you talking about??? Again, Africa is not a country, its a huge continent.

  • Zedd

    If AIDS had hit us in the 1800s, we would be in the same boat as these countries.

    We are blessed.

  • Dan

    I think what the author is implying here is not so much personally donating, but forcing others to give their money. That’s normally liberals prefered style of charity.

    Actually if brainwashed white liberals wanted to soothe their guilty psychosis, there’s plenty of dysfunctional Africans right here on this continent. And they’re constantly importing more.

    Take Katrina victims. If some perceived racial slight that someone else suffered, caused by someone else no longer around, hundred’s of years ago, can have such a debilitating “legacy”, think what an actual experienced hardship could do.

  • Zedd

    robert sed: then you concede that there is no reason i should stop ignoring africa.

    huh?? Who said that???

    There are plenty reasons for you to help or to want your government to help. The main one is that THEY NEED IT.

    What I said is, I cant make you WANT to help. That has to do with the kind of person you are inside. Some people are compassionate and others aren’t.

  • Zedd

    Richard

    I would add to your statements by saying that not only do Africans see that we don’t give, but the entire world sees it (except us).

    The rest of the world keeps up with world affairs. They know that we are not givers. That we don’t do our fair share of giving.

    You see when people say that we are infadels (trecherous), its because of things like this. They see our politicians lying, saying that we are generous and take care of the world, but they KNOW that we are lying because unlike American citizens, they know how much we really give and that we give, forcing people to buy our products and use our experts with what we give them (that is not really giving at all is it).

    Our current safety is affected by our image.

    Also, our allies are sick of us now. They are tired of holding the bag. We are refered to as a STINGY nation. We commited to the world to give 0.7% of our GNI to aid but we only give 0.1%. Our bullying others is not a secret to people outside of our boarders. Countries ally with us not because we share the same values any more, its because they have to for economic reasons. That to me is dangerous. With the EU gaining….

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    I would add to your statements by saying that not only do Africans see that we don’t give, but the entire world sees it (except us).

    Wow Zedd, I didn’t realize you were an anti-American propagandist. Do you work for the SWP or CPUSA or one of the various Soros groups?

    You statement is, of course, fundamentally untrue. It’s an old deception trotted out by the radical left periodically and based entirely on cherrypicking data to get the results you want.

    The trick is that you compare government aid fromm the US with government aid from other countries, while overlooking private giving which for the US is about $300 billion a year, while other countries’ private citizens give very little. If you count both private and public aid then the US is ahead of all other countries in gross giving and ahead of almost all of them on a per capita basis.

    Just look at the Tsunami. We gave almost $1.2 billion in aid from public and private sources. No other country came anywhere near that.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Well said, Dave. I would say that we certainly, give, and give a lot.

    Here’s some hard data regarding US government aid to a small portion of Africa, the Niger/Sahel area, in response to the drought of 2005. The data is from the official USAID web site:

    Latest News:
    09/16/05 – USAID/OFDA Humanitarian Emergency Fact Sheet #7 (PDF)

    COUNTRY USAID ASSISTANCE
    FY 2005 USAID Assistance to Niger $19,127,521
    FY 2005 USAID Assistance to Mali $39,532,100
    FY 2005 USAID Assistance to Mauritania $16,355,077
    FY 2005 USAID Assistance to Burkina Faso $17,834,500
    FY 2005 USAID Assistance to Senegal $30,917,010
    FY 2005 USAID Assistance for Regional Locust Response $10,331,798
    Total FY 2005 USAID Assistance to Niger, Mali, Mauritania, Burkina Faso, Senegal, and Regional Locust Response $134,098,000
    (emphasis mine)

    This aid was specifically for drought relief, January-August, 2005. It does NOT include all the aid sent in 2005 by US to that area for other purposes.

  • Zedd

    Dave: Wow Zedd, I didn’t realize you were an anti-American propagandist.

    Dave I am so pro US. If we are doing wrong we should know about it so we can fix it. Why is it whenever someone says anything that doesn’t look good for the US that we look at it as an attack?

    Like I said before, if my sister is a crack head and a bad parent, me saying she is a crack head and a bad parent doesn’t mean that I don’t love her or that I’m anti-sister.

    Dave as a US citizen you should be outraged that the politicians are lying to the public about how much we gave. I promise you with everything I have, what I have state is a fact. People outside of the US know this. Americans don’t.

    You cant fix anything unless you admit that the problem exists. We have a problem.

    Dave sez:Just look at the Tsunami. We gave almost $1.2 billion in aid from public and private sources. No other country came anywhere near that.

    The U.S. government was shamed into giving. The UN had to go on the airways to tell the world just how stingy we were (in the most diplomatic way possible). Jan Egeland of the UN actually used the word STINGY. We were shamed after offering 15 million dollars.

    We then come out with a quick statement saying that we were going to make more installments. Our aid was 350mil.

    Not sure where you got the 1.2b. You must be talking about the private donations.

  • Clavos

    The U.S. government was shamed into giving.

    Bull. US Navy ships were on site and off loading medical supplies and food days before any other country’s relief aid started arriving, and long before the UN or anyone else said a word.

    The money began arriving shortly thereafter.

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    USAID is our propaganda site. While that is a good thing, we need to do some PR, you certainly don’t go to them for real data about our giving. Most people who are versed in international matters know that. I am suprised that you didn’t.

    Did you read on that site that we make the countries that we donate to buy US products and use US employees? NOPE. Sometimes countries end up owing us after we give them “aid” for a project. That is not really aid. Is it? Its like me giving you a toaster as a gift and making you buy all of your electricity, bread, butter, jam, bagels, etc from me; charging twice what these items cost in your neighborhood. Is that really a gift??? If you reject the toaster, I then say “I thought you needed a toaster” I then threaten to announce to others that you don’t like recieving gifts. Thats what we do.

    Did that site tell you what we give in comparison to countries that are much much smaller? NOPE.

    Clavos what I say is the truth. You see there is a reason for everything. Its easy to simplify and say, they are lazy or they are stupid. The reasons are always much more complicated.

  • Zedd

    Dave Nalle

    The topic is about government aid.

  • Zedd

    Dave

    Correction the US allocated about 650m to Tsunami.

    The EU 2billion

    Japan 600m

    India 600m

  • Zedd

    Clavos sez: Bull.

    sigh…. did you even watch the news around that time??? This wasn’t obscure news. It was plastered on all of the news channels. How could you miss it??? Perhaps you were on FOX. sigh…..

    We had pledged the LEAST Clavos, 15mil, when the UN took to the airways. Powell quickly came on the air to say that we will be giving more.

    It was JUST two years ago…

  • Clavos

    zedd,

    USAID stands for United States Agency for International Development. It is the branch of the government in charge of distributing foreign aid to other countries.

    You say the figures they publish are propaganda. The money (and food, as well as medical supplies and other kinds of aid we give worldwide) is all part of the budget, which is a public document, so you can go to OMB and check USAID’s published public figures for yourself.

  • Clavos

    zedd asks:

    sigh…. did you even watch the news around that time???

    You mean the TV news? Would that be the same media that never sees the government under this administration doing anything well? The anti-government propaganda machine?

    No, I didn’t. Not then, not any time. Television “news” is garbage. I DO listen to BBC, NPR, and several Spanish language news sources, and I read a number of news periodicals, both US and foreign.

    It was from those sources that I learned that US ships and helicopters were on the scene with relief within hours.

    “Sigh.”

  • Clavos

    We had pledged the LEAST Clavos

    You talk of pledges, zedd. i.e. words.

    I’m speaking of actions.

    And everybody knows actions speak louder than words.

    I’d be interested in how much of the pledges you allude to in #115 actually were given.

    Why don’t you research it, link it, and give us some hard verifiable data for a change, zedd?

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Correction the US allocated about 650m to Tsunami.

    Incorrect. The last count of US aid for the Tsunami was $907 million from the federal government and another almost 400 million from private donations.

    The EU 2billion

    From almost 30 countries with a total population 1.5x the population of the US at last count.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    Dave

    If its 1.5x the US population, shouldn’t the donations equal 1.5x what the US gave? Using your numbers that would be about 1.4B but they gave 2.2B

    Japan would have given 1/2 of what it gave if we were going by Americas ratio of pupulation to donation.

    You made my point. We are NOT the biggest givers.

    Britian (tiny as it is) gave 466m in private donations alone.

    Why are we arguing this very known FACT???

    Clavos:

    I agree with you about TV news. How is it that you can listen to NPR and BBC on a regular bases, and still be so under informed? You definately would know about our giving patterns. You would have known about the UNs repremending the US about being STINGY. You would know that we have a reputation for that.

  • Zedd

    Clavos sez: Why don’t you research it, link it, and give us some hard verifiable data for a change, zedd?

    No Clavos, this is too simple. YOU need to research this. This is common knowledge. Look it up.

    You see posting sites for references, on threads often renders arguments about the sources and the dispute never ends. I wont bother because it ends up getting silly. YOU do the research.

    But in the meanwhile, vote for people that have a heart for the very poor in developing countries. That is the main point of our discussion.

  • Clavos

    zedd,

    You’re still talking pledges, not actual donations.

    I listen to NPR to know what the opposition is saying, not to parrot them.

    You definately would know about our giving patterns.

    I do know about them. And I quoted a small part of them (and linked to the source) in #110, above.

    I’m disputing the “information” you’re disseminating.

    Where’s your hard data?

  • Clavos

    zedd,

    YOU need to research this.

    Already have; and showed part of it here on the thread.

    I’m not the one simply spouting unverifiable “facts.”

    You can certainly choose not to back up your assertions; just as I can choose not to take them seriously.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    It turns out Wikipedia has a rather detailed page on Tsunami relief efforts. It turns out my numbers for US donations were far under what was actually pledged. The US currently stands at 2.8 billion, more than 4 times what the EU has donated.

    You can read all the details on wikipedia

    Reuters also has a comparison of pledged vs. paid support at Tsunami AidWatch. It shows that the US government has one of the highest rates of fulfilling its pledges. In fact, it’s one of the few which has fulfilled 100% of its obligation, but most of the others are pretty close except the Netherlands, which seems to have fallen way short of their promises.

    One of the interesting things they include is a chart which breaks down private and government donations, and on that basis the US just crushes everyone, with $1.775 billion in private donations.

    If you want to harass a country for not doing their part, look no farther than the Chinese with the largest population and second largest GDP they’ve donated less than Taiwan or Sweden.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Thanks for the verifiable info, Dave.

    I was aware that our fulfillment rate was among the highest, which is why I urged zedd to do her homework.

  • Zedd

    Dave and Clavos

    You seem to be missing the point. We can play all day with “data” and sources. We can omit important caveats that make our results not applicable hence posting this “data” is silly like I said earlier. But Clavos as I have stated before, you seem to like to argue minutia as apposed to focusing on the big picture except for your posts on South American issues. They seem to be quite lucid.

    We WERE shamed into donating more… look it up. Google “US stingy says UN on tsunami” see what you get. Don’t forget, this is an institution of diplomats. For them to have come out like that, they had to be quite frustrated. And also, know that before any public announcements are made there are tons of negotiations that take place behind the scenes.

    As for our overall giving, Dave, look that up. Don’t go to USAID. Again that is our PR site. It tells the truth but leaves out a whole lot.

    Fellows I suppose that it really doesn’t matter that two men in America don’t think that we are stingy. What REALLY matters is that the rest of the world knows it. What will happen to America? That is the big picture. If we are being hated more and more everyday because people think we are bullies, hypocrites and liars cloaked under God and democracy. What America will my children have? I care. I don’t care about being right.

    Being right in an argument with strangers on the internet is fine but doing the right thing is much more noble and certainly more life affirming. So our tit for tat will end because I know that you now know. Either Dave will do the research begrudgingly (cause he’s a man), Clavos will only do it if someone that he admires tells him to (like Dave) OR you both will walk away annoyed and yet knowing that there is truth to what I said. (I love that)

    Dave I am not sure however if you will be able to do the research without your preprogrammed political eye. You will most likely call it all liberal (like you are supposed to) and dismiss it (like you are supposed to). It’s unfortunate that you will forever be robed of a wealth of knowledge because of an encounter with ideas which sealed your world view.

  • Zedd

    Dave

    I forgot to ask. Does your data calculate the giving for the EU or brake it down by country?

    SILLY boy. You must think you’re dealing with Clavos.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    We WERE shamed into donating more… look it up. Google “US stingy says UN on tsunami” see what you get. Don’t forget, this is an institution of diplomats. For them to have come out like that, they had to be quite frustrated. And also, know that before any public announcements are made there are tons of negotiations that take place behind the scenes.

    I don’t think anyone disagrees that this happened. The scope of the Tsunami damage was totally unassessed when our first pledges were made. That $15 million pledge lasted for a matter of hours, and the next pledge of $35 million lasted for about 2 days. We raised what we were offering as the extent of the disaster became clearer – that just seems sensible.

    As for our overall giving, Dave, look that up. Don’t go to USAID. Again that is our PR site. It tells the truth but leaves out a whole lot.

    Zedd, as I posted earlier, I went to Wikipedia and Reuters and found information which seems accurate and isn’t based on USAID data. I do think characterizing USAID as a propaganda organization shows a laughable degree of bias. They disburse aid money, and like any US government agency they’re accountable for it, so their records are just straight facts.

    Fellows I suppose that it really doesn’t matter that two men in America don’t think that we are stingy. What REALLY matters is that the rest of the world knows it.

    Or conversely, we know that America is not stingy and because of people like you the rest of the world suffers from the delusion that we’re stingy. And BTW, the original statement of the UN official who made the stinginess accusation did NOT single out the US, but the west and developed countries in general.

    What will happen to America? That is the big picture. If we are being hated more and more everyday because people think we are bullies, hypocrites and liars cloaked under God and democracy. What America will my children have? I care. I don’t care about being right.

    I’d rather have an America which stuck by its guns and did what was right than one with integrity which changes at the whim of poular perceptions in other countries.

    both will walk away annoyed and yet knowing that there is truth to what I said. (I love that)

    You forgot the part where we just scratch our heads in puzzlement at your bizarre and unsupported assertions.

    Dave I am not sure however if you will be able to do the research without your preprogrammed political eye. You will most likely call it all liberal (like you are supposed to)

    You are CLEARLY not paying attention. Find one instance where I’ve ever used the word ‘liberal’ as a negative.

    I forgot to ask. Does your data calculate the giving for the EU or brake it down by country?

    It’s hardly my data. But indeed it includes both breakdowns by county and a total figure for the EU.

    Dave

  • Zedd

    Dave: regarding USAID you said “shows a laughable degree of bias”

    What bias? I’m an American.

    Dave seriously USAID is weak. You are a guy and you will insist on being right but in the future, if you want to be taken seriously, don’t quote USAID as a source. Unless you are dealing with the easily pliable.

    Dave your commentary contains a glaring subtext of political bias. You are sure to not mention parties or use words that would pin you down, however your views are loud and clear. That’s why I tease you all of time. I am not like people like Clavos who will get caught up on whether you said one word or not. Your position is clear. You can’t help it, it comes out. Perhaps after a while your philosophy will match up with what you really are but right now, you are clearly bought and sold and heavily slanted.

    Keep researching. You will become more balanced in your views with time. Until then, don’t pretend as if you are. But I have to admit it’s funny to see you try. Especially when you get all paranoid.

  • Zedd

    Dave sez: That $15 million pledge lasted for a matter of hours

    YES goober, after the UN gave the press conference Powell went on air to say that more is comming. Again, the UN had BEEN talking to the US for some time and was fed up so they went public. We are stingy dude. Look it up.

    Actually don’t bother with our conversation, just research our giving patterns. Don’t look at sites that are bent one way only. Look around. You don’t even have to tell me that I’m right. Just take a look. Perhaps your discovery will color some other naive views you have.

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    You just found out what USAID is today or maybe yesterday (I dont want you to respond saying no it was yesterday :o) I know how you value minutia. Don’t try to lecture on it though.

    Think time:

    Why would the US’s government program post negative statistics about itself???

    On the other hand why would a government agency post its stats on giving? in case you don’t know, its for self promotion. Theres nothing wrong with that. But that is what propaganda is silly.

  • Clavos

    You just found out what USAID is today or maybe yesterday

    And why do you think that, little girl?

  • Clavos

    Why would the US’s government program post negative statistics about itself???

    Because anyone can look at the budget (a public document) and determine whether or not the statistics they post are real?

  • Clavos

    On the other hand why would a government agency post its stats on giving?

    Because that’s its job?

    Now I know how Sisyphus felt, with his rock.

  • Ed

    When I read these things I just want to ask one question: Are the people of Africa in no way responsible for the current state of affairs? Do they have no cupability in the wars, genocide and other horrors, or is it all the fault of the West?