I don't know why I was surprised that yet another story about Jesus won't die. A week has gone by since the opening of The Passion of The Christ, and tonight I had the misfortune to hear Pat Robertson and Sean Hannity talking about the film. Their faith has skewed their opinions, especially Pat who hadn't seen it yet. To provide tha balance that Alan Colmes should have offered, and as a worshipper of film, here's my review.…
.jpg?t=20120527181101)
Article comments
26 - El Bicho
racel, anyone who posts online does it with some degree of ego. It's the nature of the internet, but we can agree to disagree.
your words didn't hurt my feeling, but thanks anyway.
27 - STM
El Bicho: Yes, you're right ... if you didn't know anything about it you'd be scratching your head a fair bit. The violence is gruesome. As I said to Nancy, I'd never advise anyone to see it unless they REALLY wanted to. It's not really entertainment. I suspect, however, that in Gibbo's mind, it was never designed to be.
28 - Clavos
Whoa, STM; no fair!!
He always stereotypes Englishmen, though, which I find mildly offensive ... as he's actually American and therefore has far less right to join in the fun.
Are you forgetting who we revolted against in the 18th century?? OF COURSE we have a right!!
C'mon, Mate--it's one of the things that unites Aussies and Yanks.
29 - STM
I agree Clavos .... I'm aiming that squarely at the mildly duplicitous Gibbo, however, who is only an Aussie when it suits him.
Come back Melvin, all is forgiven. You can even have your sleeping bag back.
30 - Clavos
That's reprehensible of him--have at it, then.
31 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Nancy,
You're missing the point entirely. Historical fact is irrelevant here. It doesn't matter what the Sanhedrin 2,000 years back was or wasn't from the point of view of a mob of German skinheads and "halbstarke" screaming "Judenschwein!" as they chase a Jewish kid down the street to kill him - or from the point of view of 7 teenagers who beat a girl unconscius on a London bus a fortnight ago because she was Jewish.
If a skinhead tried to come to Ma'aleh Levona and pull the shit they do in Europe, the local versions of Jean Claude van Damme would beat the shit out of him, eliminate a few of his teeth without gas, and flush his NT down the toilet to teach him not to contaminate the community with his trash. THEN, they'd throw the bastard out on Highway 60 and let him try to flag down a Red Crescent ambulance. Who knows? The Arabs might have room for the bastard in between the crates of ammo they carry in them.
You don't mollycoddle your enemies - you "moishecodddle" them. That way they learn.
But Jews who live in exile and who remain stupid enough to persist in doing so, put themselves in the same danger they were in 80 years ago. So when a PASSION is screened, historical FACTS become irrelevant and real fear of real danger takes over.
I don't know what things are like Down Under, STM. But I know what I hear from Brits and Frenchmen who have left the beknighted lands of their birth, and I know the concerns of Jews in Hamilton and London in Ontario who haven't. I read about Jews who are beaten up in Belgium and Holland, Russia and the Ukraine and Poland. It might as well be 1926 instead of 2006.
The movie itself did not feed anti-Semitism, or at least it did not appear to. Those of us who thought it would were wrong (yours truly included) in our assessments.
But it did feed Jewish fear - either outwardly amongst the "professional" Jews who make a big stink over who they are and why the world ahould feel "oh so sorry for them" while they chow down on the lox and bagel, or inwardly in Jews who want very much to flee the stigmata of Jew-hatred but would rather do so by denying who they are and trying to just assimilate into the society they live in.
BOTTOM LINE.
If Jews in exile would get their asses (and arses) OUT OF EXILE AND HOME they would be safe, and this discussion about a Christian movie for Christians could continue without comments like mine.
But the idiots in exile don't want to hear that. They didn't want to hear it from Jabotinsky in the thirties when he begged them to leave, they didn't want to hear it from the Hafetz Haim, as he told religious Jews to leave Europe, they didn't want to hear it from Rabbi Kahane and they don't want to hear it now.
When the Train of Destiny rolls down the tracks you either get out of the way, or die. You don't wave documents with your damned "rights" at it, or talk about how many generations you've lived in the particular land of exile you are so attached to.
But I might as well talk to a wall. Just as it has taken Nasrallah's "rocket therapy" to get Israelis to begin to see reality, it will take beatings, roundups, arrests and massacres to get Jews in exile to begin to give them understanding.
32 - El Bicho
"If Jews in exile would get their asses (and arses) OUT OF EXILE AND HOME they would be safe"
Safer maybe, but with the current mood of your neighbors, I don't know if "safe" is the correct word, Ruvy. I'm not trying to be flippant. Just reacting to recent events.
33 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
El Bicho,
A couple more million of us HERE would change the picture considerably. The big argument used by the traitors in Jerusalem for pulling out of Judea and Samaria, for example, demographics, would be gone. Then their real argument, the fact that they are doing what their American and European overlords have told them to, would be exposed. And they'd be out on their asses (or arses), likely fleeing to exile where they could reunite with the money they have stolen here.
But that's Middle Eastern politics, not movies. I do apologize for burdening your comments list with the problems of Jews. The Passion was and remains a Christian movie for Christian audiences, and should be judged appropriately.
As I mentioned in comment #3, my main interest in the movie was the fact that it was done in Aramaic, a sister language of Hebrew. It would have been interesting and perhaps educational to see Aramaic in acual use. But I was given to understand by others that the Aramaic used was so stilted and wrong that it was more of a joke than anything else.
That left, for me, just a foreign language snuff film. The 30 or 35 shekels it cost to see it could be put to better use.
34 - El Bicho
No apologies necessary. It lets me back in the illusion that my review stimulated debate.
35 - STM
Ruvy: Sorry mate, I can't pretend to know what it's like for people on the end of it as I'm not Jewish. Perhaps I'm coming from a naive perspective.
I just don't understand how anyone in the developed world can think that anti-semitism is OK, in its malignant or benign forms, after the events of 60 years ago.
I really can't, for the life of me. I just don't understand how being Jewish makes a person a target of hatred, and I've never witnessed it here (and I don't live a sheltered life).
36 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
El Bicho,
You can always return the favor and drop by my articles and leave a comment or two, even if you violently disagree. It'll let me enjoy the illusion that my work has stimulated debate.
STM,
You are a lucky man never to have been exposed to anti-Semitism - though you may not recognize it. When you hear about how someone "jewed" down a price, or talks about a rag sheeny or a Jewish piano (cash register), you are seeing Jew-hatred in your culture in its least malignant form. But you need not apologize, nor bother yourself on the subject, unless you have Jewish friends and want to protect them from the things they refuse to protect themselves against...
Just a warning. "If you involve yourself in the affairs of another you become his brother."
This Arab saying has much wisdom to it.
37 - STM
Ruvy: Thanks, mate. I do have Jewish friends ... we just don't talk much about our respective religious backgrounds, although my mechanic is an Israeli who has a penchant for large diesel engines and has been the butt of the odd "Golan Heights" joke in respect to his extraordinary skills with a screwdriver and a mallet.
He also gleefully describes himself as a "forby", shortened Australian ryhming slang for jew (the same thing for an American being "Seppo", and neither are meant to be offensive). Once you have a ryhming slang nickname in Australia you are really part of the culture.
We don't use the term jewed-down, or hear people being described as "jews" for being tight with money, although I have heard it in England.
When a well-known court case involving a jewish lawyer was being played out and discussed one night, one of my friends nearly caused a riot in a crowded room when he said: "Fu.king typical, isn't it ... bloody lawyers."
As I explained to Dawn the other week, the only Jew I have ever seen getting a hard time in Australia was sitting next to me recently at a Tri-Nations rugby match between Australia and South Africa and was getting his hairstyle accessorised by salted peanuts used as mini
projectiles.
As he is originally from Johannesburg, it had everything to with the colour of the rugby shirt he was wearing. We have told him to support the team of his new, adopted homeland. But as he's a South African, he's too stubborn to take advice.
They copped a flogging, too. But his wife was more concerned about whether the nuts were Kosher.
38 - Nancy
Ruvy, I obviously had a good upbringing: half my friends were Catholic, and the other half Jewish, so Friday pms I'd go to Catholic classes, and Saturdays I'd go to Hebrew school, 'cause that's where everybody else was. I've never heard the term 'rag sheeny' or a cash register referred to as a Jewish piano, and I never heard anybody use any other bad terms either. Maybe they just did it when I wasn't around, or maybe I'm just stupid or out of it. More interesting, I never had any Jewish friends or their parents speak of the terms, either, themselves or as being used by someone else. But my background is congregational rural/seafaring New England, so possibly there weren't enough inter-cultural problems to cause the issue to crop up.
Whatever, the main point I got out of this movie was that Gibson was milking the violence for all it was worth, and that the Romans were pretty nasty customers, which makes much clear about attitudes towards them back then & as reflected in the NT. Not at all the stern but overall benign guardians of the Pax Romana I learned about in Latin classes.
39 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
To El Bicho #25,
If you(in general) are at all interested in the history and message of Christ you would have probably read the New Testament and not have waited to see a person's translation on the big screen. Especially the last 12 hours of Christ's life, which were important but did not show the true message that Christ wanted his followers to hold dear.
Granted, I loved The Passion, and yes it was disturbing,I don't totally disagree with your review. But,it is still someone's translation. Did people really need to see his suffering so vividly?? Well, if you don't believe in Christ as being our saviour then you can chalk it up as another violent film. I don't believe that's what occurred here. I feel that alot of people even the naysayers believe in Christ and it was horrible what he had to go through.Yes, it's still a person's translation. I think the biggest whole in your review it is that you weren't necessarily reviewing the film. You were asking alot of questions... Which is great. I would suggest reading the Bible. Sure, it can be argued that his history started between 30A.D. & 100A.D. but, I will give you this point to think about:
30-100A.D. is a fairly short time after the death of such an important figure, wether you believe him to be a Prophet & Carpenter or The Son of God, to have such documents that show his history and can also be cross examined to support such claims. I don't remember Alexander The Great(the movie) being crtiqued in such a fashion and his history wasn't penned until 400 years after his death.
40 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Just a side note for Nancy,
These terms, 'Jewish piano" and "rag sheeny" I mentioned were more common in the Midwest, and that is where I learned them.
41 - Nancy
I know this is stupid, but what is a rag sheeny & where did the term derive from?
42 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I had to figure this one out myself. Sheeny is a derogative for Jew, most commonly found in Britain. So the term means "rag-Jew" or the fellow who goes around buying up rags from housewives for a couple of pennies. These people who bought up the shmattes (rags) were more often than not, Jews, hence the name.
43 - Nancy
How did 'sheeny' derive from any term for Jew? That's a looooong shot, that one, altho the Brits come up with some really weird terms, like 'spanner' for wrench. I thought maybe it referred to someone who was poor - ragged, hence, 'rag'.
44 - S.T.M
Nancy: Throwing a wrench into the works just doesn't have the same ring to it as throwing a spanner into the works. But they do, too, come up with some funny terms those Brits ... I mean, here's an example: why use the word tap when you can use the French term faucet instead??
Those buggers just don't make any sense.
On the other hand, Yanks have come up with the odd clanger. My favourite American misnomer is the use of the French word entree, which literally means to enter and is the term used for the course to enter the meal (the first course, then).
It has this meaning everywhere else in the civilised world, except of course in the US ... where it means the bloody main course.
I had a ding-dong argument in a SF restaurant one night when the waiter brought me a main course and told me it was an entree. I had mistakenly ordered something as an "entree" and then foolishly ordered myself a second main course.
Since we were at absolute cross-purposes, exasperation and apoplexy would be the polite words I'd use to describe what transpired and subsequently ruined what should have been a fine dining experience. Even the manager became involved before we finally sorted it out.
You and the Brits (and us holdovers from the Empire) remain two peoples mostly united, but separated by the barrier of a common language.
45 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Kim Pearson wrote a fairly detailed etymology.
Of the soruces she gave, the most convincing to me is "miesse meshíneh", (meeseh mesheeneh) the Yiddish pronunciation of the Hebrew "uncommon death" mávet m'shunéh. The "shíneh" part of the word "meshíneh" became shortened to sheeny.
46 - S.T.M
Ruvy: I suspected Sheeny might be truncated London rhyming slang but I checked and it IS just a derogatory term going back to the 19th century.... however, many rhyming slang terms aren't - they just happen to rhyme and are then shortened down to a truncated form of the first word in the rhyme.
Sydney rhyming slang is similar to that of London, but used in a different way. To be referred to in rhyme is generally a back-handed compliment rather than an insult. It must have something to with our healthy disrespect for authority that everything here is always arse-about. As I said in an earlier post, we have a similar term here: Forby (for-bee), but it's not meant as an offensive term and is used by lots of Jews themselves.
Americans are always mortified (until they get it) when they find out the full version of the term Seppo (an American).
But it's just a shortened version of a very common Australian garden feature (the most diplomatic way I can describe it) that just happens to rhyme with Yank.
No hidden meanings, in our culture: it is just slang and makes for some very colourful discussions in the pub. If you were visiting Oz for the first time, you might think you were on a different planet. Sometimes I really think we are ... or at the very least, in some kind of bizarre parallel universe.
47 - Nancy
So what's the full term for Seppo?
48 - Clavos
Septic tank...
49 - Nancy
Seriously? How does that connect to yanks? I don't understand.
50 - STM
Nancy: It rhymes ... almost everyone in Australia outside the city had a septic tank once upon a time.
It is not a derogatory term, rather a term of endearment. It ryhmes with yank, and there's nothing more to it than that. Americans tend to be offended by it until they a) hear some of the things we call ourselves, and b) get what it's all about. The ones who live here will proudly let you know they are a Seppo.
You can't judge our strange cultural mores by your own or other similar standards: they don't apply.
The real problem is Australia would be if you didn't have a nickname. It means no-one really cares. This is the land of truncated nicknames and slang. It is all a bit of a giggle.
My mate is a Chinese-Australian, a second generation Aussie. His Chinese migrant father proudly tells the story of one of the watershed moments in his life - when his Aussie workmates started inviting him to the pub after work and gave him a nickname.
The nickname: Chongo. Hardly flattering, is it .... imagine the uproar if you called a Chinese person Chongo in an American workplace?
And good on you Clav, for knowing :)
51 - Clavos
Aw, shucks, STM. T'warn't nuthin'.
You gave us some pretty good hints, mate!
52 - STM
Do you get that it's all a bit of a giggle, though, Clav?? ... many of your countrymen don't and want to give us a whack on the snout when they first find out.
53 - El Bicho
Ruvy #35
I'll stop by the next one I see, but you deal in subjects I don't feel qualified to give an informed opinion. I'd rather have people think I'm a fool rather than make a comment and prove them right.
Brian #39
"I think the biggest whole in your review it is that you weren't necessarily reviewing the film."
Other than dealing with the story, screenplay, characters, and cinematography, I can see your point.
There are plenty of people who believe in Christ and found it a violent film. What Jesus had to endure was horrible, but he was crucified with others that day, and in the film we have no idea how much of a thrashing they took.
I know the story and have read the Bible. My questions stemmed from what I saw and didn't see in the film.
I would also point out that this isn't just one person's tranlation, but many, in fact, more than we'll ever know.
54 - Clavos
I did get it, STM.
I've not had the pleasure of visiting Australia, but I hope to one day.
I have had the pleasure of meeting quite a few of your countrymen, and I have friend here who lived in Australia for several years.
My overall impression is that Aussies and Yanks have a lot in common (we don't have any cute bears, though).
55 - STM
Clav said: "(we don't have any cute bears, though)."
Clav: A favourite Aussie gee-up directed towards visiting Americans going camping in Oz, or worse, bushwalking, is to watch out for the Drop Bears ... a vicious breed of territorial koala that when you get too close drops from its tree onto your head and rips you to shreds.
Tee-hee. Nearly as good as the kangaroo, shark, croc, spider, snake and jellyfish stories, all of which actually ARE bloody dangerous - but the Drop Bear is a uniquely Australian piece of bullsh.t.
However, Koalas actually can scratch the sh.t out of you ... and they p.ss on you too when you're holding them. I always hold the buggers at arm's length.
Their pee stinks like strong eucalyptus and ammonia and will live forever in your memory (the last two paragraphs of this post actually have some basis in fact).