Has this season of House, M.D. all been in House's mind? And can fans expect more of the same when 13 returns in "The Dig"?
(Mild spoilers ahead for House, M.D. Episode 7x18)…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Has this season of House, M.D. all been in House's mind? And can fans expect more of the same when 13 returns in "The Dig"?
(Mild spoilers ahead for House, M.D. Episode 7x18)…
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Article comments
176 - Jessica aka JLCH
Barbara thanks for the really informative and interesting post! I enjoyed reading it.
I watch "House" for House, Cuddy and Wilson but it doesn't bother me that neither Cuddy or Wilson are in episode 18. It sounds like this is a catalyst episode which finally House begins to move forward and hopefully face his turmoil and fix himself which we know will be a very long and ongoing process.
I have always believed there's been something non-sexual and non-romantic between House and Thirteen. It's like they are both broken and silently understand each other. Don't get me wrong, I think that Cuddy and Wilson are also broken, but there's something different about House and Thirteen, I think because it goes back to their childhood. We don't know much about Thirteen's childhood but surely losing her mother at a young age had a tremendous impact on her entire life just as House's abuse by his father had an incredible effect on how House turned out. Thirteen really had no mother and who knows what happened with her father once her mother died? If he was devoted to raising Thirteen or if he just shut down. Same goes for House in a way, House really never had a father figure, not someone he could love and look up to for a role model. I see a lot of similarities in the pain both share in related to their upbringing.
Early on when Thirteen was a competing fellow and killed that guy and his dog, House fired her team but not her. I've always wondered why. I don't think it's something that could be pinpointed on the outside...more a feeling he got about her, a puzzle he wanted to solve and keeping her around would allow him to do that.
I remember the episode where he had her Huntington's results and she refused to see them. I still LOVE the scene where she told him about when you run out of questions, you don't just run out of answers, you run out of hope. The look on his face---well it just resonated with him. He understood her at that moment, it was like a personal epiphany for him. It's like he got her.
Also, in the episode where House plays guinea pig and takes some of the magician's blood and then they do the biopsy on him, I loved it when Thirteen just lunged that needle into him and it hurt him like hell and she didn't flinch. It was like she KNEW he wouldn't mess with her. That connection...unspoken of course...may actually come back to help them...him in trying to face his worst demons and move forward and fix himself and her in trying to face her impending death and come to terms with her life.
I've always wanted House to find a way to face his inner turmoil and his personal demons. It would be nice if he could open up with Cuddy but the thing is sometimes it's hardest to open up your innermost soul to the one you love. House and Cuddy have hardly ever been on the same page together and they have had such a hard time for so long telling each other the truth about how they feel. This is not because they don't care about each other but because they do. House and Cuddy both tiptoed around their feelings over the years out of fear of rejection or that if they did embark on a relationship it would fail. Neither one of these dysfunctional people could handle the heartbreak so they kept each other at arm's length, building layers and layers of walls. If only they'd had the guts to talk to one another and be honest, so much hurt could have been avoided.
It doesn't matter to me how House begins to open up so long as he does. That he may find some way to move forward after all that has happened pleases me greatly. I like what Barbara said about House mourning the loss of his relationship with Cuddy and that he begins to "process what happened" and starts to find a way to fix himself, in so many words. I think we saw it in his eyes in the last scene of "Fall from Grace" that he realizes just how far he really fell. He's been doing things he never would have done in the past. Back then, he never ever would have intentionally hurt Cuddy. He only ever hurt her out of pain and I think he realizes he doesn't want to do that anymore. Not just that but HE doesn't want to hurt anymore.
House can't undo his mistakes at least not easily and right away (such as his fake marriage to the green-card chick) but he has to start somewhere I believe a part of that moving forward includes some eventual serious honesty with the people he cares about. Cuddy is an important person in his life, she has been and will always be a major part of his life. He opened his heart to her and let her in and got hurt but it was both their faults. They need to be honest with each other if they can ever regain the friendship they once had and perhaps something more. I do not see either House or Cuddy getting into relationships with anyone else because their heart is really with each other but I hope that Cuddy will see House's eventual positive steps forward and I hope that House can make those steps and forgive Cuddy for hurting him. I know the show isn't about House and Cuddy but they are an important dynamic that can't be ignored. I'm not saying House and Cuddy can embark into another serious relationship now but I do think they will need to talk openly and honestly to one another. Their lack of communication over the years contributed to their breakup. They should have been able to talk honestly with each other without fear of rejection but these two are fragile individuals, they're not normal. I think if they did better understand each other, they could be friends and so much more, but this time with trust and without the fear. Cuddy needs to be honest with House about why she told him she didn't want him to change (which I truly believed she meant) but why deep in her heart she did want him to change. I think she really does love him for who he is but she of course has her own inner turmoils which get in the way of her own ability to accept his faults and just be happy. In turn, House needs to be honest with Cuddy about why he keeps saying he can't and won't change, why he feels unworthy of love, and why he fears rejection so bad (because we know this goes way farther back than Stacy.) House and Cuddy wanted this to work so much that they were willing to put on the blinders and just ignore the potential problems in favor of finally being together. Time for some honesty and forgiveness. If they ever hope to be together again, it has to be with the blinders off and all the crap out in the open. No secrets. These two characters, so flawed, so dysfunctional, so full of turmoil and sadness, are simply beautiful together even when they are angry. They fit together like pieces of a puzzle and there should ultimately be some way to bring them back around.
House's growth will always be ongoing, he may never reach true happiness but the journey of him finding himself while trying to reconcile it all with the rest of his life and his relationships with those closest to him would be very interesting. His deepest issues were never addressed at Mayfield but now is the time to begin addressing all those things TPTB have been alluding to for years, things which have prevented him feeling worthy of love. It's not going to be easy but I think maybe given his "Fall from Grace" recently, he just might be ready to face this as painful as it's going to be for him. The act of facing his pain as well as facing and accepting the pain of the people he loves would be a huge step forward for him. He needs to learn he is a worthy person and that he can give love and accept love and pain and still be a brilliant diagnostician. He thinks his mind and his gift for diagnosis is all he has and if he doesn't have it, he has nothing. He has to learn that he doesn't have to compromise his gift to be happy. This will be an ongoing lesson for him and would be an interesting journey to watch especially how it affects him and those around him including Cuddy, Wilson, his team, and his mother and biological father. (Am hoping TPTB go in this direction for it would be simply amazing!)
All I want is to see TPTB do justice to our favorite characters and the actors who do such an incredible job portraying them. They deserve no less, neither do we.
Thanks again Barbara for the article. Well done!
177 - ruthinor
JLCH: If I remember correctly, didn't 13 say that her father had an affair while her mother was ill but that he remained devoted to his wife throughout her illness. I think she also said that her father later married the woman he had the affair with. Of course she could have been lying!
I know that I'm the minority on this, but I think that the "abuse" of House by his father is really overdone in all these analyses. I remember House saying only the following: His father didn't speak to him for several months. This was after House told him he wasn't his biological father (to me that says that House was NOT afraid of his dad if he was able to say this to him). House's father said if you are late to a meal, you don't eat. The only physical abuse he mentioned was something about sitting in ice water? I don't recall the specific details. To me, this adds up to the father being a strict disciplinarian who was also a military man. House did not respect the man, because discipline is a dirty word to House, and he also felt that his father was nicer to people above him than to those below. House also mentioned that things weren't always bad between them. I just don't see this as some sort of ritual abuse, but rather they were two diametrically opposed personalities who never got along. And I really wonder how much his relationship with his father influenced his later life. I just don't think we have enough information to judge. Again, the show is called House, so we never got to see anything from the father's point of view. Just my opinion!
178 - Susan
Eileen #149 and those she quoted. I leave it to all of you to say what I feel. Thank you.
A bit of "Twilight Zone" here if all the "Huddy" videos have disappeared from YouTube. (Red Tulip Ana). That's very strange. Plus the fact that the next episode takes place a year after House and Cuddy? It's like the producers are trying this giant erasure of all memories of 7 years- are they trying to make us think we imagined everything? Thankfully there are House marathons on every week so I know I'm not crazy and imagining their relationship.
We'd better get a good finale to make up for all this angst.
179 - Flo
Thank you Barbara for this article. I know you wanted to be go on hiatus yourself at first so it's very nice you took the time to right this after all. What you wouldn't do for us, House obsessed!! :-)
@JLCH, Great post, thank you! I'm glad not to be the only one who likes Thirteen. I also always found her interractions with House interesting. it was also great to see her being bery "Housian" with Wilson in "Lockdwon".
I'm glad to see her back and I'm curious to know what she did. Really looking forward to the episode.
@Amy, @Jess, @Kim, I'm really sorry you were treated badly because you didn't like the House/Cuddy relationship but I'm not sure what good it does to do the same here. You're all intitled to your opionion but this type of resentment is a waste of time IMO.
I highly doubt that you were insulted here on BB's blog since it is a place for great debate and the opinions here usually are well articulated in a respectful and adult manner. So again, I'm wondering why you post that kind of message here.
All, I can say is: don't do to others what you didn't like being done to you otherwise you're no better.
There is fundamental nuance between exchanging opinions and arguing about what is right and wrong: the former leads to an open debate, the latter shuts down any chance of debate since everybody are so sure to be right.
This place is known for its debates and I think we are all adult and smart enough to keep them civil as we managed to do so so far.
Thanks for all the great messages everyone.
180 - Jessica aka JLCH
Ruthinor #177:
I am not sure about the affair, it sounds familiar but I can't remember. I don't know why she lie but if she didn't you could definitely be on to something. There would be a major issue with her father there.
In "One Day, One Room" House talks about things that his "Oma" did to him that he later confesses to the rape victim/patient were done to him by his father. This signaled to me there was something deeper by not admitting it was his own father who had done this to him, I mean how awful is it when your own father treats you like that? This in addition to things said earlier on when his parents visited (and also how his father acted to him--the whole "you don't know how lucky you are") and then later on when his father died led me to believe that he had a really hard time with his father when he was younger and the discipline he received may have gone much farther than simple teaching a boy to behave, it may have been actual abuse and would be one reason to explain why House rebels against authority and discipline as an adult.
It's true we don't know the whole story but that is what gives it such great potential. It would make a great storyline to see him have to face what really made him this way. I would absolutely love Diane Baker to return as Blythe and be a part of this journey. Also wish his bio dad would be a part of this too.
True, he did state in Season 6 when he was attempting to talk to his father (like Wilson was talking to Amber) that "there were some good times" (as we see also in the deleted father/son scene that was never aired but showed up on YouTube)but I think at that time he was trying to rationalize his relationship with his father by remembering the few good times there were as part of his healing process. But that was never explored fully afterwards...
181 - ruthinor
JLCH: I don't think the whole issue of House's treatment by his father was really "explored" at all! We have only House's version of what happened (sound familiar??) and even that was pretty thin and not enough to prove anything one way or the other. When the dad said that House was lucky, my thinking was that, as a military man, he had seen much more severe injuries in combat, and that compared to those guys, House's injury was small potatoes. I don't agree with that sentiment, but I think I understand where it came from. All of this of course leads to all kinds of speculation which I believe is what the writers like to do anyway since even they disagree on House's personality (and I'm sure on the other characters as well). In addition, the writers all have their favorite characters to write about.
In the scene where 13 describes her father's affair (I think it was to Taub or Chase when they were at a patient's home, but I'm not sure), I never got the impression that the affair upset her or that she blamed her dad for being unfaithful. She praised her father for his loyalty to her mother and seemed to understand why he did it. At least that's the way it came across to me.
I've always liked 13 and I could never understand all the flak that came her way, or why so many folks think that OW is a terrible actress. I'm not saying she's Ethel Barrymore, but she has always played 13 with a kind of flatness or lack of emotion, except in certain situations. Maybe some people interpret that as bad acting, but if you've ever seen OW as herself, she is totally different than 13...very fun-loving and carefree. So she's definitely not playing herself!
182 - josie
In One Day, One Room House reveals that his father used ice baths and forcing him to sleep outside as punishments. That's child abuse.
183 - ruthinor
Josie, I don't disagree with that. The question is was House telling the truth or was he just trying to bond with a patient? And if it happened, how often? And why was House not angry with his mother for not stopping it?
184 - ruthinor
To solve the mystery of how long H and C were together...on another site they said that House tells 13 they were a couple of weeks away from celebrating their 1st anniversary when they broke up. So, maybe Bombshells was actually about 6 months after Recession Proof? That might explain why the mood shifted so completely. Still, have they ever skipped that much time on House?
185 - RedTulip_Ana
@184 - ruthinor
Oops, is that possible? That between Reccesion Proof and Bombshells were those six "lost" months?
I think not, because in Bombshells, Cuddy tells her sister that she and House have been together only a few months (do not tell, almost a year).
I believe six months have passed since FFG to TD.
By the way, When says this House to 13? And, What tells, exactly?
186 - Milagro
- @RedTulip_Ana, @ruthinor
As it's been brought up by Barbara and a few other TV critics that have previewed next week's episode, "The Dig" takes place only a few weeks (at most a month) after the events of "Fall From Grace." In fact, as @ruthinor already mentioned, there's another preview posted over at "The Voice of TV" which (among other things) mentions the following:
"We finally get a clearer ruling on how long House and Cuddy’s relationship lasted. It’s in the same ballpark as 13’s absence since House sadly informs 13 their relationship ended a couple of weeks ago and later admits regretfully they would have celebrated their first anniversary."
As for the "time jump," I assumed that already occurred between "Unplanned Parenthood" and "Office Politics" since the former takes place only a few weeks after "Help Me" while the latter occurs a few days before the November midterm elections of last year. In other words, TPTB simply stretched out the overall duration of the relationship a lot longer than what we actually witnessed on screen while the breakup itself is still relatively fresh in order to ensure that the timeline of [H]ouse continues to parallel "real time."
Oh and one more thing, the above-mentioned preview also states that "Lucas (Michael Weston), Cuddy’s weird boyfriend, comes up." Unlike other posters that have been less than pleased about this minor spoiler, I'm not particularly worried about Lucas making another return appearance (at least I hope not!). In all likelihood, I'm assuming that Thirteen briefly brings up the subject of Lucas in response to House's talking about his relationship with Cuddy since she wasn't even aware that they were dating, much less broken up. Let's not forget that Thirteen has been completely out of the loop as to what has occurred at PPTH while she was away for nearly a year.
Be not afraid!
187 - barbara barnett
Been crazy busy all day, and just am catching up on the thread.
Susan said:
A bit of "Twilight Zone" here if all the "Huddy" videos have disappeared from YouTube. (Red Tulip Ana). That's very strange. Plus the fact that the next episode takes place a year after House and Cuddy? It's like the producers are trying this giant erasure of all memories of 7 years- are they trying to make us think we imagined everything? Thankfully there are House marathons on every week so I know I'm not crazy and imagining their relationship.
The episode doesn't take place a year after the breakup, but a year after they first got together (in "Help Me"). The timeline is messed up because of that anyway. In Sept. we got "Now What," which is supposed to take place a few moments after "Help Me" (ignoring three months). So now in "The Dig" we are skipped ahead approx. a month to May, when 13 disappeared and House and Cuddy first got together. No mystery.
The Huddy videos have vanished? I have seen no evidence of that at all. From where?
188 - RedTulip_Ana
@187 - Barbara Barnett
- Yes, we were referring to "a year after them to begin the relationship, " we're right. The only thing we find strange is the moment that happens this "jump in time. " So, we thought they had spent six months after the FFG. Now we are more relaxed, knowing that the temporary jump occurred before (do not know when, but before).
- About the video: Some people began to notice that YouTube had blocked their videos about Huddy. And it's true, I've checked (because I had seen before). Are very many videos about "Huddy scenes" of this season. Right now, you can find videos, but they are on Fox and Global (not as detailed as the previous). My comment was just a reference to all these videos have been months there, and until a few weeks had not been blocked (coinciding with the breakup). Actually, Fox and Global have their copyright and should make use of them (but we crashed the timing of it). No matter.
189 - Sigh!
Please, Fox deletes videos because of something called "COPYRIGHT"!
Screaming "this is a conspiracy against huddy" is ridiculous and pretty silly!
190 - barbara barnett
RedTulip_Ana--NBC is always doing stuff like that (even to videos that are used with permission, like mine to attach to articles), so I wouldn't read anything into that :)
In "The Dig" House makes reference to the fact that that the breakup was "a couple of weeks" ago.
191 - RedTulip_Ana
186 - Milagro
I think we clarified the issue of time jump. I'm more calm because I know there's not been six months since the wedding of House and Dominika (was too much for my poor mind.) It may happen the jump when you say, after ep05, or as others say, after ep14 ... but perhaps not important now. However, in ep15, Cuddy spoke a few months (if it was almost a year ... she could have said it), also in ep16 House, spoke of six months (when the waiter came into the room). Well, whatever, I think we will close this issue ... (maybe, the writers told it to us at a later interview, because I think many of the viewers are surprised by that issue).
192 - RedTulip_Ana
@189 - Sigh!
Please, why talk to me like that?. Have you read what I said? It was just a comment, unimportant, about a previous comment about an event that other people (not me, I have no videos) commented at another forum (twitter). I, just, have transmitted this fact because I have believed appropriate. As I said, they have every right to make use of their copyright (and the only thing remarkable was the timing of this, because they have been hanging for months without sanction)
@190 - barbara barnett
Yes, Barbara, you're right. In fact, I agree that compliance with the rules. Only, I took the track, due to the timing to block videos. Yes, you're right, perhaps they have caught this moment, like any other. ;)
In "The Dig" House makes reference to the fact that that the breakup was "a couple of weeks" ago.
Oh, much better for my mind. Clearly, then, the jump in the time was at another moment (and even we not noticed.) Thanks for the reference.
193 - ruthinor
Maybe Cuddy and House just measure time differently. It seemed like a few months to her, but a year to House! He wasn't wearing his watch!
194 - BiaAylesworth
GIRLS!!!!! WHAT I noticed!!! House wasn't limping in "You Must Remember This"!!!! turn on 12m20s. When he enters Cuddy's office. NOT limping!!!!
What does this mean?
195 - housemaniac
#194 I'm going with a rare HL flub. Just checked it out. He starts limping again right after. Please don't look too hard for mistakes; I want to keep my idealized vision of HL and his impeccable acting skills intact. :)
196 - HuddyIsOver??
# 194 - BiaAylesworth .. is not this just another of the strange errors that have occurred in the House lately.
I'm doing a marathon and I'm on Season 2 and look at that thing, in episode 2x10, House tells Cameron "Our little girl is growing up" is not interesting .. as he says the same thing in episode 7x14 with the Masters until the intonation is the same.
And what can I say, I agree with all of you when they say that the H / C ratio was mistreated, depth and they deserved the most interesting topics, not Cuddy stressed all the time with House and House with a saint who gives everything and gets nothing. Cuddy looked up was with nausea House, her expression changed, it was as if she were not supporting him.
Start to believe TPTB made them so only for "Huddy" give up this relationship because they wrote it so boring and so common that there seemed to H / C, were totally OOC.
Well I'll wait until the end of this season and is getting worse than it is, I'll be forced to stop watching it .. I'm sorry because I love this series too, and when the H / C ratio was over, I stayed in the same pit, to tell the truth I'm depressed today, how it affected me but I'm just tired of TPTB do not give a damn, let me stop here because I can not stop ..
Sorry for the mistakes, English is not my first language.
197 - RedTulip_Ana
@193 - ruthinor
Maybe Cuddy and House just measure time differently. It seemed like a few months to her, but a year to House! He wasn't wearing his watch!
Good appreciation for your part! :))
But I think I've found the famous time jump. It's in episode 04. If you remember the conversations that day.
- Wilson: Are you sleeping over there yet?
- House: Nope. She eat over, we hook up, she leaves.
- Wilson: Okay, Taking it slow. That Could work. You are spending time with the kid?
It does not seem a logical conversation, if they had been together only a few weeks or a month ...
- Cuddy: Because the next step from fine is serious, and you can´t handle that...
Neither seems like a logical statement, for a relationship of a few weeks ...
198 - ruthinor
For all you House-Cuddy fans ...listen especially to the first verse.
199 - Susan
ruthinor 198 - is that "for reals"? What's the story behind that song?
200 - ruthinor
Susan, I don't know. I just saw it on another site and thought that rapper knew more than TPTB!
201 - Jamie
I agree with Barbara that The Dig kind of overrules the hallucination/dream possibility about this season. Besides, considering Masters' addition to the team makes that possibility even less likely. The promos of The Dig gives me some hope, but I really wonder how they are gonna pull of this season. And if they continue till the end of ninth season as David Shore said, I am even more curious about the course of events. There are many things to explore about House's past, but this season's writing was so bad that I have serious doubts for the future. What is worse is constantly being reminded by the producers and the writers that House will end up miserable at the end.
@Barbara: Maybe you can give me some hope with further insights.
202 - Committed
@ 201 - Jamie
While I guess I'm not really sold on the writing being at the core of all my discontent this past season, I have to say that this show is kind of a bummer at times.
I just watched "Small Sacrifices", I forgot how sad that was. Sam broke up with Wilson, Taub struggled with his wife and at least as it stands right now that doesn't look like it will end happy. No couple has survived. I can understand not having folks live happily ever after but really after seven years you don't have just one??? What is the point of EVERYONE being alone?
I hope TPTB consider changing course at some point. It won't need much of a change since it can be so dark now. Maybe it was the House/Cuddy thing - sometimes it take a jolt now and then to snap you out of denial and back into the true reality of House - but as I look at this show a little more critically it might be too dark, especially if they are hoping to go another two years. I understand that the main character is still evolving and is still fascinating but wading through what we are told will be predictably blue storylines with a slight hint of happiness now and then for another two years will take a real hearty soul. You have to have some hope of better days and you have to recognize and trust that what you are seeing is really better and not just there to emphasize the inevitable pain that seems to almost predictably result from happiness. At some point that cycle has to stop.
203 - fatOlady
I posted a SPOILER I copied from a twitter link posted by IWFC (I Watch For Cuddy) in the Fall From Grace RANT section. I believe this SPOILER is very interesting. The post is #588 if anyone wants to read it. Again, this is not my information and all credit goes to IWFC.
204 - Sacha
Quote #176: "I have always believed there's been something non-sexual and non-romantic between House and Thirteen. It's like they are both broken and silently understand each other. (...) there's something different about House and Thirteen, I think because it goes back to their childhood. We don't know much about Thirteen's childhood but surely losing her mother at a young age had a tremendous impact on her entire life just as House's abuse by his father had an incredible effect on how House turned out. Thirteen really had no mother and who knows what happened with her father once her mother died? (...) Same goes for House in a way, House really never had a father figure, not someone he could love and look up to for a role model. I see a lot of similarities in the pain both share in related to their upbringing."
Yeah, well, they've had Chase in a similar position. He must have had a hell of a childhood with his father barely existing and his mum dying of alcohol. He was secretive about it (even in front of his fellow team mates and House), but he opened up to House in the end of Ep Cursed back in S1. Oddly, it has never been addressed again. I kind of grow tired with Thirteen being House's soul mate and protegé, shoving the subtle Chase/House dynamic aside in the process. Both House and Chase have classic daddy issues, they are both 'not good enough' for their partner, they share the need to find 'something' in another person who they love, and they both failed miserably because their actions couldn't compete with the expectations of their partners. And all they can do is shoving another Thirteen arc into my face. I don't think I will enjoy it much.
205 - Ally
House and Cuddy have been together for almost a whole year. that's what I've read from another blogger's article on episode 18.
I think House saying "6 months ago" was just a way of speaking and by no means a timeline set in stones...
yes it's floppy but it makes much more sense that they spent at least 11 months together than 6 months.
Help Me - Bombshells time gap is the constant meaning 10 months so almost a year leading up to their anniversary.
206 - fatOlady
Where is everyone tonight?
207 - Eileen
Hey, Sweetie, check your FB inbox!
208 - Flo
Sacha #204, I agree that Chase is in a similar position as Thirteen as JLCH well described it. You're absolutely right about that but I don't think the writers negated this. I also don't see how a trip between Thirteen and House can negate everything that Chase has been through. House was here for Chase after Dibala. They went to speed dating together with Wilson and they spent a nice evening at a bar with Foreman. However House had a lot on his plate lately. A lot of things has changed for him so he wasn't that present in Chase's life but that's okay, that's life. The bond between them is still there though. In that regard it was fun to see Chase mentoring Masters, taking House's place in this matter.
It's interesting that Thirteen and Chase can be compared like this. Perhaps it was not a coincidence if both formed a - what seemed to be at the time - beneficial friendship in the second half of season six. It may also not be a coincidence if this bond made Chase ask Thirteen to have sex with him in "Help Me".
Those three characters share a deep and fascinating connection. They are exremely guarded (especially House & Thirteen who we not know since as long as Chase & House).
I'd like to say that I'm surprised that people say they are tired ot Thirteen and basically say that TPTB shove another Thirteen-centric episode down our throat considering the fact that she was totally absent for the whole season so far.
I may be the only one here, but I like her and I'm looking forward to her coming back. I'm sure it will be revealing about her but also about House. Bring it on.
209 - Sacha
Flo, thank you for taking me up. Not a lot of people do that with all the Huddy floating around. ;)
I think what bothers me about the character of Thirteen is the fact that even when she was absent, they didn't bother to do anything with the team. They put up Masters to fill her spot and even that was dissapointing when the Huddy took over so mercylessly. We didn't get much of any other characters, did we? It seems like they were nothing but unenjoyable background noise to the whole Huddy arc, and when Thirteen returns, bam! she gets to 'bond' with House, makes him sharing emotions and has the most powerful and possibly fanfictional stroyline since Last Resort. I'm NOT entirely watching for Hugh Laurie, as brilliant as he is. I enjoyed his interactions with his collegues and ducklings, and I love his mentoring side and how he took interest in all of their personal lives, as they did in his.
The upcoming episode shows me once more what an important part Thirteen is for the show. If the writers did something interesting with Chase or Foreman or Wilson for the time as she was out of the picture, I could easily live with her return and would probably even happily skip the ep. Thirteen always got the juiciest storylines and a lot of screen time for her robot-like acting, and while I do agree House was there for Chase after Dibala (in a very crude, weird way), they could have easily done more with it. How long did it last, two small bits in one episode? He told him to do his job when he was clearly frightened to walk into the ICU, and what else could he have done with Chase just sitting there dumbfounded? He was acting Houseian, Chase was acting Chaseian, and there was all there was to it. I thought there were missing a great opportunity of Chase 'bonding' a little more with House in the aftermath. Instead, they turned him into a man s**t. Thirteen, OTOH, gets a decent, promising encounter with her now mellowed mentor.
They took up the 'tough love' thing in 7-04 when Chase hired the pretty but dumb doctor, and House seemed once again see through Chase's behaviour (including a perhaps little far-fetched Oedipus complex?), and I was hoping there would be more of it but again, nothing.
If I sound bitter toward Thirteen then it is probably due to the fact that she seems to be the most intriguing fellow House has ever had, and TPTB never get tired of showing how amazingly mysterious and uber-cool yet vulnerable she is. It's beyond me why the don't give anything substaintial to other cast members while they still have them.
Rant over.. ;)
210 - Flo
@Sacha, I'm not a shipper and I like all the characters so no worries here about talking about everything you like. You're more than welcome! :-)
About your last post, I agree and disagree about the fact that they didn't do anything with the team. Taub and his marriage and his new friendship with Foreman are not nothing. Chase not coping well after Dibala, Cameron leaving him and dare I say his new friend 13 leaving too, is not nothing.
I must admit that Chase "the slut" was kind of boring after a couple of episodes (we got it!) but now with his weird bond with Masters he seems to grow over it and that's cool.
Taub & Foreman are having a weird and IMO fun developping friendship. The thing is, a lot of fans seem to dislike them so it doesn't matter; Personally I find them fun together.
The problem with Masters is not the "huddy" (hate the term) thing: the fact that, for the most part, she was written as a total one-dimensional character. Too bad she is gonna leave when she is FINALLY growing as a character.
As for 13 I don't think Olivia wilde is a bad actress. I like how she plays 13. I also like "Last Resort" I think it was revealing about all the characters involved. Again I like all the characters so I'm gonna take your comment about 13 as just the fact that you don't seem to like her at all. If I'm wrong tell me so but I think your comment was very telling about your sentiment about her (which is okay).
The show was always about House. Last year he lived with Wilson and we got very cool scenes between the two and it was interesting to see his deep connection with Wilson. This year he was in a relationship with Cuddy so it was normal to see him more with her IMO.
However I agree that the H/C thing could have been written into the show in a better way. Actually, I think you will meet here a lot of people who are disappointed with the way the H/C thing was handled.
I'm not pro "Huddy" but I'm not against it either. I just thought it was not very well handled indeed. It was too common and the arc wasn't very well balanced with the rest of the show and the other characters storylines. I agree with you on that.
To go back to your last statement, I don't believe that Thirteen is written as the "most intriguing fellow House has ever had". She's just intriguing now because of the fact that we still don't know a lot about her (as I said she's a guarded character we know only from season 4) & because of her sudden departure. That's just my opinion, mind you. I guess we just disagree.
I'm sure other characters will have big episode about them. Chase already had quite a few with him greatly involved since the beginning, so did Foreman. Taub had his marriage falling down. So I think after almost a year gone 13 can have an episode.
Granted, I too think that This season was very unbalanced, that the H/C thing was not properly written and integrated to the show. However those complaints don't have anything to do with Thirteen IMO.
211 - Lily
Re: Flo and Sacha
I've become quite interested in your discussion about the team members, particularly Chase's and Thirteen's relationship with House and I hope you won't mind if I join in.
I would agree that this season, much of the team (particularly Foreman and Chase) have been neglected. The focus on Masters has yet to make me care about her. And worse yet, I think House's relationship with Cuddy has largely prevented him from taking as large a role as he usually does in the fellows' lives. But I have to say, I don't see how Thirteen could possibly be to blame for the sub-par plot arcs of other team members. I agree with Flo that after being gone for seventeen episodes, it's past due for a Thirteen-centric episode.
Besides, every team member has their turn in the spotlight, just not in every season. If you'll recall, Thirteen didn't have a single serious plot arc in S6 (except by relation to Foreman), while Chase had the Dibala arc, Foreman took over for House and had the main plot in Moving the Chains, and Taub had several episodes focusing on his marriage woes. Going back further, we've always had duckling-centric episodes, most notably Chase's The Mistake, and Foreman's Euphoria (one of the few two-parters in House history, no less).
I happen to adore both the Chase/House and Thirteen/House dynamics. I do think that Chase and Thirteen share the most in common with House (particularly in terms of medical philosophies) and tend to have the best understanding of him. Both-- as Barbara astutely notes in her latest post-- are keenly capable of seeing beyond his misanthropic facade and coming away with a deeper understanding of his character. Even as doctors, they're the two ducklings I think most shares some of House's perception and moral relativism regarding medicine.
(When others were busy comparing Thirteen to Cameron, I always thought she was a far better replacement for Chase. That being said, I don’t think her presence and relationship with House has in anyway negated Chase’s relationship with House. Can’t he have more than one protégé?)
Flo: I was also a huge fan of the Chase/Thirteen relationship in late season 6. I honestly think that their rapport was a major reason both of their personal lives seemed relatively stable back in those days. To me, it is telling that Chase’s promiscuous stretch didn’t start until she left, and ended (?) when he established some kind of relationship with Masters. Similarly, back in those late S6 episodes, Thirteen was surprisingly open to him, voluntarily offering him privileged information about her father’s infidelity, her first love, etc. They really were great for each other, and I hope that in future episodes, TPTB will further explore their friendship, whether or not they go anywhere with the romantic element.
Sacha: You know, I’ve also heard quite a few people call Thirteen boring, while you’re irked by the opposite problem. The girl just can’t win, can she?
I personally have always enjoyed Thirteen and OW’s portrayal of her. I’ve never understood critiques of OW’s acting about her flat affect and such" Thirteen is meant to be drier, more subdued, self-repressed, and someone who highly values her sense of self-control. She’s not your typical emotional, caring female TV doc (a la Cameron in the earlier seasons), and that’s something I really appreciate. Unfortunately, I also think she’s very easily misunderstood and oversimplified, especially since she’s honest about so little and open about even less.
Ironically enough, she is a character who hates so much to be oversimplified" so much that she would rather people know nothing than make assumptions. Sometimes, I think she reins herself in so tightly simply because she doesn’t want people to see her as the bisexual doctor or the dying girl; she doesn’t want people to see the stereotype instead of the person. She’s perceptive about others and understands more than she lets on, but she can be incredibly stupid about her own life choices. She’s confident and fiercely opinionated but in her more vulnerable moments, she shows a surprising amount of self-awareness. She values her strength and self-control above all, and she hates to have those around her see her weaknesses (because she’s afraid of being judged?). In other words, she’s quite a bit like House, isn’t she?
212 - Sacha
Flo, Lily, thank you so much for your input. I too am not a shipper and I too hate using shipping terms. I often wonder why people are so much into the 'shipping' anyway. The show is not about who's sleeping with whom, and I didn't enjoy watching any of those hook ups, be it Chase and Cameron or Foreman with Thirteen - they were doomed and gloomy and depressing all the way through. Same happened with 'Huddy' - it's such a cliché on the series and it became stale very soon.
Having said that, I much prefer House interacting with other people. I loved how he was able to get into people's heads, and his curiosity made him a compelling, passionate and sometimes even endearing character. He never acted without reason. He may have messed with them but it always turned out to be in the best interest for them. I liked how he 'split' Chase and Cameron in S6. It was a good move. He seemed cruel but as a result, Chase knew he couldn't save a marriage with a lie. Camerons last appearance made clear that she never knew if she loved him at all, so all the better for him to stay with House.
Weirdly enough, I kind of liked Thirteen when she was introduced in S4 (not taking into account that I was disappointed about Chase's marginalisation). She seemed aloof and controlled, so different than Cameron (I thought she was a very poorly portrayal of a doctor, let alone her silly crush on House and her annoying inconsequence). However, I found myself from mildly interested in her to slowly growing sick of her. She began to develop into that cool, savvy street cat who is super superior. She has almost every quality of a fanfictional Mary Sue (heck, even her second name - Beauregard?? - is classic Mary Sue!). She made everyone on the team look like an idiot next to her. Foreman became the dumbass who messed up a trial and firing her, then dumping her. Chase turned into a clumsy show off whenever he had a scene with her, staring at her breasts and 'having a go' at her in a most cringe-worthy manner. She always came up with the right diagnosis and the best ideas, she bluntly read House's motives when he wanted to find out the address of Cuddy's sister, she is an expert on drugs and basically knows everything. She can't do anything wrong. Yes, she did almost self-destruct after the Huntington confirmation, and we got a whole ep about it, then another one with Last Resort. The writers tend to give her a lot whereas the rest of the team is mainly occupied to make her shine by looking stupid next to her. I guess a lot of Thirteen 'haters' feel pretty much the same.
I came to feel annoyed by her presence as she was always shown as the woman who knows her way around. She seemed cold and incapable of real emotions. She is House-like, in a way, but without soul. Maybe next ep will change that, but I doubt I'm going to like her more. My problem is that she eats screen time from an excellent cast.
As for her being boring, I don't find her overly exciting either. I'm just so sick of her popping up and instantly having the probably most promising interaction with House in the whole season.
Flo, you're right, there was something going on inside of the team, but as well stated, it didn't have to do anything with House. They were trapped in their own little dramas, all of them not very enjoyable, some of them totally awkward. House didn't care at all. Surely, he did have a plate full and it's okay that he didn't pay the attention he used to, but to me, the most intriguing part of the show always has been House and his team. Not 'Huddy', not 'Hilson' (although I do enjoy the two and missed it in S7 as well), or even 'Hameron' for that matter.
House is best for me when it's not all for the shippers, but about people who struggle with issues. I don't see many Chase-centric eps or eps when he's had enough scenes to develop the Chase/House dynamic. They were subtly done, almost unrecognized by a majority of the viewers. Where I live, there are still a lot of people who believe that Chase must hate House, and Chase is just another member of his team that he doesn't really care about.
Chase did have the Diabla arc in S6, but they convienetly brushed it under the carpet once the deed was done (divorcing Cameron, that is). He did have the Vogler arc, he's had one single ep each season of S1-3, but I can't help myself to feel like they're not exploring the character to a certain extend. They do it with Thirteen instead. It's what irks me about her. It's why I would have no regrets if she left for good. I wish OW all the best for her blooming movie career, but I wish even more for Jesse Spencer that he is getting enough screen time to show what a great actor he is.
Again, thanks for your time, it's been nice talking something else than, um, the usual. Lol.
213 - Lily
Sacha-- No problem. I'd much rather discuss characters than ships, too. I was never much for shipping.
Re Chase and House: I think the House/Chase father/son dynamic was extremely apparent from Cursed onwards, especially in mid-S3, with that moment in Finding Judas. I think the undertones there were extremely strong that Chase saw House as a kind of father figure and maybe subconsciously wanted/needed approval from. On House's side, I think after the events in Cursed and The Mistake (combined with what we now know about House's relationship with his own father), House certainly understood Chase on a level far deeper than he did Cameron or Foreman. In that last House/Chase scene in Cursed, House was left speechless, perhaps because Chase's speech hit a little too close to home.
But if you're looking for overt affection from House, then my answer is pretty much the same as Wilsons' (Finding Judas), you're going to be waiting an awfully long time. House is a fan of tough love… really, tough love. I personally think that the best thing House ever did for Chase was fire him" no matter what you think morally about the Dibala issue, Chase finally learned to stand on his own and make choices independent of House or Cameron. And I think House agreed; as he readily showed in the Games arc, he most values the fellows who can stand up to him.
(House’s compassion in this particular episode is noteworthy exactly because it’s so rare to see overtly. He is capable of so much compassion, but he rarely shows it, whether it be with Chase or anyone. In The Dig, House is already in a vulnerable state and I fully expect that the circumstances will be extreme enough to merit such a rare occurance.)
I also think House still cares about Chase" his little Oedipus complex act in Massage Therapy shows that he’s hardly blind to Chase’s after-hours activities. But House was never one to stop his fellows from making those kind of choices" if you’ll recall, he didn’t actually fire Thirteen for sleeping around or using drugs (which he indicated that he knew she was still doing post-Lucky Thirteen), but to test her and to push her to prove that she is still capable of making a human connection.
Similarly, I don’t think the Cameron/Dibala issue was left unaddressed" some of my favorite Chase moments this season involve his slight little mentions of the entire affair. The “at least once” moment in Now What, his admission to the patient in Recession Proof, and the previously mentioned Massage Therapy interrogation. And in S6, we had each of the fellows try to counsel Chase in Ignorance is Bliss but in the end, he did talk about his relationship with Cameron with Thirteen. At almost a year and a half onward, I think that’s more than enough.
Re Thirteen: I’m not sure how anyone can saw that the show portrays Thirteen as “perfect.” Yes, she’s smart and perceptive, as she had to be to survive House’s eliminations. She tends to understand House’s motives more often than the others, (I think) because she shares a lot in common with House. But she doesn’t get the right diagnosis most of the time" she’s about on par with Kutner or Chase, which is good, but hardly a step above the others. She acts cool and aloof, because she doesn’t want to be seen as vulnerable. Foreman being an idiot about the drug trial had little to do with her, since she had absolutely no input in the situation. As for Chase turning immature in front of her, let’s all remember how Chase reacted when Cameron started talking about sex. Let’s just say he’s a little susceptible to pretty girls.
Besides, the show is exploration of people’s flaws" it rarely features anyone in a flattering manner. The counterweight to that is that its characters tend to have good intentions, which then go badly awry. Thirteen is hardly an exception to that rule" she’s cold and manipulative and lies almost compulsively; she has no idea how to deal with her problems and she rarely trusts anyone else enough to let them help; she is (was?) a doctor who can’t deal with death, lets her personal issues get in the way of work, and identifies too much with patients (remember The Softer Side?); she lashes out at others (aka House) for her own problems; she can be self-centered, sometimes to the point of being unable to feel empathy for others; need I go on?
(And I’m saying this as someone who likes Thirteen…I’m sure there are plenty of Thirteen-haters who have a comprehensive list of everything she’s done wrong to date.)
214 - Sacha
Lily, thanks a lot for your post! So glad to talk about my favourite character on the show - it's so rare to find people who are willing to discuss Chase.
I totally agree with all of what you said about Chase, and your perception of Thirteen rings plausible even to someone who doesn't like her. I really didn't hate her right from the start, and I feel almost sorry for having such a strong dislike for a TV character! ;)
You addressed slight little mentions of the Dibala issue. That is actually very much my point. Don't get me wrong, I was extremely glad that the moral question of whether to kill an evil man or let him go on a rampagne and commit genocide has not been addressed again. In fact, I felt admiration for Chase after some consideration, and we saw how hard it had been for Chase to make a choice. He didn't do it cold-blooded or out of selfish motives, and he knew he was going to suffer for it (I think he even knew he'd lose Cameron once he would tell her). I loved Chase in the beginning of S6. He made a choice, he acted on his own, he knew it could destroy him. Again, I am glad they didn't let him suffer legal consequences.
I rather felt like he had immensely changed with what he did. It was a life-altering event, yet they didn't explore it at all. They were hinting on occassional panic attacks, a severe guilt issue, even a God complex. When Cameron learns about his acts, all is good again, but House sets them straight and subsequently Cameron leaves without her husband. After that, everything is about a failed marriage, and Chase has overcome the disappointment by having threesomes. He *does* have a history of being abandoned by people he loves. If they don't want to address his guilt then that's fine, but why make the whole thing about Chase sleeping around and give him the shallowness of a womanizer? He's never shown any signs of promiscurity, nor was he aware of his 'prettyness'. He's lost his innocence as a doctor after Dibala, but he became 'comic relief' with the playboy arc, and it wasn't even funny. But, that's probably just me and my need for closure. I so wanted House to talk to Chase and I thought he would, given the speech of Wilson's after the conference in Known Unknowns. Sadly, it never happens. Yes, it would have been tough, because that's what House does. But I would have preferred tough love to the snide remarks about first timers. I did love the punch in Ignorance is Bliss, too. It was one of the most memorable moments between Chase and House and, as I recall, probably the last one I really enjoyed. Wish there were more of it.
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the show exploring people's flaws, and that's what makes them intriguing and credible. Heck, I even liked Foreman when his brother returned from prison, and I find the House/Cuddy relationship, although painful to watch, not entirely unrealistic. What I do find unrealistic is the fact that Thirteen, to me, is written as someone who has her flaws, albeit it is never admitted by her or made clear for the viewers (or, for me at least). She's a compulsive liar, and they make her look cool and smart when she does. She judges patients and gets away with it. She suffers a terminal illness, goes through blindness, a brain tumor, a hostage, yet it doesn't make me care for her in the slightest. Maybe it is because she is so damn cool about everything that she could be replaced by a robot. I find her uber-presence and her smugness more than annoying and had high expectations for S7 when she left. It's kind of ironic that it has been the worst season for me so far.
I wish I could express my resentment for her character in a more appropriate way, as I know that I have reasons why I don't like her at all. I never liked Cameron. I seem to have a problem with the female character writing on the show, because most of them are manipulative bi***es if you look closely enough. Thirteen, to me, has no soul, no gripping quality that an average woman could relate to. A lot of female fans could identify with Cameron (weirdly enough), or Cuddy. Thirteen, OTOH, is shown as some sort of Lara Croft. Someone who goes through sickness, torment, jail, and yet she masters everything like a super heroine. I know that there must be a reason why is written like this, but it doesn't make me care for her more. If House can break her shell then good for him, at least he'll be having fun. I certainly won't if we get another Thirteen showcase in the process. But, you'll never know. Maybe they'll make her human with him.
I just hope they'll give Chase more depth again. I actually liked him interacting with Masters. It's funny, I didn't like her at first but grew fond of her during the last two eps.
215 - housemaniac
Sacha 212:
Speaking for myself, I am not at all interested in who is sleeping with whom per se. What interested me about House and Cuddy becoming romantically involved was that it always seemed that, on the one hand, they both wanted it so much while, on the other hand, they both seemed to have a hard time with intimate relationships, especially House. I was really looking forward to the show exploring the dynamic of two people with extremely strong emotional, physical, and other sorts of attachments to one another who were at the same time poor at negotiating relationships (House especially). I think this is a form of tension within many people's relationships, on some, less extreme level, which is one reason that some people, anyway, were attracted to the House-Cuddy idea. That exploration did not happen. But I guess either it will in the future (which I doubt) or perhaps some other show will come along someday that tries to accomplish this very difficult balancing act.
216 - RedTulip"Ana
THIS @215 - housemaniac --> Really well expressed!
217 - Lily
Sacha: No problem, I'm always happy to talk about Chase. Or in fact, most of the fellows. I think I'm in the minority, but I really do adore the supporting characters and I think that House does an uncommonly good job showing character development in the subtlest of ways. Anyone else you want to discuss?
I agree with most of your post, but I have to say, as a woman, I find myself feeling a bit insulted by both Cuddy and Cameron at times (but more so with Cuddy). Cameron, for me, at her very core seems to be your typical, caring, overly-emotional TV doctor and what I think a highly inaccurate portrayal of how women "generally" are. Meanwhile, Cuddy in the earlier seasons existed merely to be a roadblock to House's crazier schemes and when they developed her character to play such a large part, they just tacked on more and more cliches: she's a forty-ish woman so she must want a kid, she's a woman in power so she must be terrible at relationships, she's successful so she must have a rather abrasive mother, etc. At least they made an effort to give Cameron a little depth and character development around S3.
I think it's telling that in both Chase/Cameron and House/Cuddy relationships, I almost always sided with Chase and House. Their behavior, particularly at work sometimes, really disgusted me and struck me as immature. I don’t think they’re “manipulative bi**es,” at all, but rather the opposite. I may be the lone voice in the woods saying this, but I would be perfectly fine with a female version of House which is probably why I loved both Thirteen and Amber. As insanely screwed-up as both those characters are, I like that they’re unpredictable and that their character aren’t defined by their gender and other gender-related stereotypes. I’ll take Thirteen’s clever string of lies over Cuddy’s petty complaints any day.
Returning to Thirteen, I always thought that she has shown quite a bit of self-awareness, particularly more than Foreman or Wilson, who are in many ways, even more closeted than she is. I think that willingness to turn that perception onto herself and admit her own flaws is a huge part of character arc: I’m thinking of instances like Lockdown where she played Wilson but felt badly enough about it that she admitted to her own lies and eventually told him (part of) the truth. When Foreman told her off for her self-destructive behavior, she quietly muttered, “I know.” She told Foreman how much she regretted her behavior when her mother was dying. She was particularly open with Chase throughout the later half of S6. She more or less resolves things with Foreman.
I’m not sure where you get the idea that compulsive lying and chronic self-repression supposed to be “cool.” I guess Thirteen is cool in that she is pretty, street-smart, fashionable, and can usually get people to do that she wants. But she doesn’t get away with most of what she does: House obviously won’t let her keep her secrets and can see through her lies. Her drug habit and promiscuity was pretty well revealed and if anything, she suffered far harsher consequences for it than Chase did. Her overstepping boundaries with patients rarely yields positive effects for either her or the patient (like I mentioned before, see The Softer Side or Remorse).
Perhaps this is just my perspective coming from a family with history of mental illness, but Thirteen’s veneer is just how she deals with everything she has been through; and there’s nothing much healthy or “cool” about that. Just unfortunate. She’s made quite a bit of progress, in my opinion, but just looking at the preview for The Dig, she hardly looks like a woman whose “master[ed] everything like a super heroine.” That’s not how I see Thirteen written at all. I do think she’s quite a few notches tougher than Cameron or Cuddy but if constant self-restraint and trust issues are any testament, she’s far from whole.
I'm sorry if this is an incomplete response, but I'm a little pressed for time. It's really great to find someone else who cares about characters more than ships and I'd be happy to discuss other topics a little later.
218 - Betty
Lily, Thanks for your message. I guess we'll need to agree to disagree regarding Cameron being written off as a legitimate creative decision. I would have preferred to see more development with that character rather than writing her off completely. But as I said in an earlier post and like you, I am looking forward to 13's return and actually like this character over Cameron. Cameron got a bit annoying in her preachiness and hypocrisy. Interesting take on 13 in your recent post.