Finally I got to watch Fahrenheit 9/11. Though, I mean, it's been out since only a few days, how can I say finally? But yes, I was very curious and impatient to hear what's so special about this movie and what Michael Moore is telling. I'd heard of a lot of people saying good things about it, having been impressed, having been touched this or that way. Then it broke the Box Office record for documentaries last weekend. All the trouble Moore's gone through to get the documentary published on screen. Yes, it certainly added a lot to the hype this movie's currently experiencing.
Though I've decided not to be too hyper about this movie. Yes, it was interesting to watch and listen. And it touched me - made me angry, made me laugh, made me sob. But I'd known a lot of the information provided in the movie already before, because he'd talked about some of the things in his book Stupid White Men already. The interesting thing to me was to actually get to see some taped proof of what Moore had talked about in his book already.
In some parts I thought Moore had exaggerated again though by e.g. pointing out that President Bush had been 42% of his time on vacation within the beginning of his presidency. Bush said he didn't have to be in Washington to run the White House, and I think that's true. Nobody said Bush hadn't worked while he was on vacation, and I doubt Moore could say that Bush actually didn't work while being on vacation. Though that's only one point in which I support what Bush said.
Though the footage of 9/11 and how Bush sat there in this classroom was just pretty funny and shows just the real Bush, the boy that has no power when it comes to making wise decisions and acting like a responsible man. He should have stood up right away and move his butt. But he just kept sitting there saying nothing and reading a book, as if nothing bad had happened, while the Trade Center Towers crashed. Amazing. It's nice to finally know now where Bush actually was at that time. I'd always wondered about that, because it took Bush so long until he addressed the US nation the first time after the attacks. I'd always presumed he'd been on vacation while the attacks happened.
Article comments
1 - Mark Edward Manning
If anyone awards this for best documentary, that will be the final proof we require that standards of education have fallen through the basement in America. Funny how everyone accuses President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair of lying, based on the same information that Kerry, Hillary Clinton, et al had voted on for the Iraq War, yet Moore fetches awards here, there and everywhere for his pathetic prevarications that he releases as "documentaries." Long-winded verbal editorials, more like, but I don't place much faith in the absurdly stupid American public, and the even more stupid overseas opinion, in determining the difference.
2 - boomcrashbaby
Long-winded verbal editorials, more like, but I don't place much faith in the absurdly stupid American public...in determining the difference.
It's a single movie. Unlike the long-winded verbal editorials of Rush, O'Reilly, Novak, Coulter, etc. which are pretty much broadcast 24 hours a day.
[on the next Scaroborough Country....here's the news....Farenheit 9/11 breaks records...now we will fill the rest of the hour up with my 'Real Deal' (which is my opinion of it), and then have esteemed guests, Ann Coulter and Bay Buchanan on to discuss the movie.....you'll see it here first, on the ALL NEWS, 'fair and balanced' FoxNews.]
3 - Keith Sikora
Even if Michael Moore is wrong on every single one of his accusations, even if the film fosters cynicism and anger and derisiveness throughout the country, nevertheless, it gets people talking. Even though it might not be what one party likes to hear or what one particular ideology agrees with, it will still spark debates. And, even if it is a "long winded editorial", at least the average person, as opposed to the over-paid personalities of TV and radio, can discuss what might be best for the country.
4 - Marc
How do you reconcile these two statements:
1. "I'd always wondered about that, because it took Bush so long until he addressed the US nation the first time after the attacks. I'd always presumed he'd been on vacation while the attacks happened."
2. "To me as a European who follows the news a lot and as one of those that have read Stupid White Men I guess the movie didn't have many surprises left."
It is painfully obvious you don't follow the news enough, or limit yourself to uninformative sources. How can it possibly be that you have gone 3 years and NOT seen Bush as he sat in the childrens classroom! Within the first week of the attack it must have been show thousands of times. And more than a few hundred since then. How odd!
5 - Kevin
Regarding President Bush sitting in the classroom: "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission and a former Democratic congressman from Indiana.
Quite simply, Moore has put a lot of distortion into this film.
Regarding politicians being tracked down about sending their sons to fight in Iraq: "It turns out that Representative Kennedy (R-MN), one of the lawmakers accosted in Fahrenheit 9/11, was censored by Michael Moore.
According to the Star Tribune, Kennedy, when asked if he would be willing to send his son to Iraq, responded by stating that he had a nephew who was en-route to Afghanistan. He went on to inform Moore that his son was thinking about a career in the navy and that two of his nephews had already served in the armed forces."
But, that's not all: "Kennedy's side of the conversation, however, was cut from the film, leaving him looking bewildered and defensive.
What was Michael's excuse for trimming the key segment? Kennedy's remarks didn't help his thesis - "He mentioned that he had a nephew that was going over to Afghanistan," Moore recounted. "So then I said 'No, no, that's not our job here today. We want you to send your child to Iraq. Not a nephew.' " Kennedy lambasted Moore as a "master of the misleading" after viewing the interview in question.
Another ambushed legislator, Representative John Tanner, was accosted by Moore while he was rushing to get to the floor of Congress. The Hill reports that Tanner
"[...] didn't even know who Michael Moore was [...] He asked me if I voted for the war and if I'd send my children to the war. I told him I did and that my children were full grown."
Michael Moore is, quite simply, a prick.
Look at this site for more information (also the same site where I got the above quotes): http://fahrenheit_fact.blogspot.com/
6 - Michelle
marc,
How can it possibly be that you have gone 3 years and NOT seen Bush as he sat in the childrens classroom! Within the first week of the attack it must have been show thousands of times.
i do not know how i got that idea, but many blamed Bush for not showing up fast enough. and actually, i was in the USA when the attacks happened, i was in NYC still that morning, but left by train before the attacks happened, so i had all the news sources people had in the USA, and i had to stay for another week, because my airline didn't fly home until wednesday one week later. and i can tell you, within that week this video was NOT shown ANYWHERE on any channel. actually within the first week after the attacks, i think from two days after the attacks on, the US government ordered to censor the media also. they would sure have NOT shown this video within that week. maybe they showed it on Al Quaeda TV, i don't know what channel you were watching. i watched them all, because i had nothing else to do anymore, because i couldn't go back to NYC anymore anyway and also didn't want to anymore when they re-opened the city.
2. "To me as a European who follows the news a lot and as one of those that have read Stupid White Men I guess the movie didn't have many surprises left."
i said "as a European who follows the news a lot" because in Europe we get lots of footage that the USA have hardly gotten on the news. we had all the footage of killed US-soldiers and Iraqis, for example. we were not censored like the US were during the war on Iraq. we got all necessary information, which is probably one of the reasons why most of our countries did not support Bush's war on Iraq, while Bush had 80-90% of agreement among Americans until it dawned to them that Bush had made a big mistake. and boy, don't say it wasn't so now, i've been in so much trouble with Americans since 2002 because of this war. almost everyone I met was pro war on Iraq, and too many people still think this way. you were labeled a US-hater if you didn't support the war on Iraq.
7 - Michelle
kevin,
Regarding President Bush sitting in the classroom: "Bush made the right decision in remaining calm, in not rushing out of the classroom," said Lee Hamilton, vice chairman of the Sept. 11 commission and a former Democratic congressman from Indiana.
Quite simply, Moore has put a lot of distortion into this film.
what Lee Hamilton said is simply an opinion, but not a fact. there were many people who thought about it differently, and whatever Lee Hamilton has said does not matter as long as many people disagree, and it stays questionable whether Bush has made the right choice.
i do not think he should have stood up and screamed in front of the kids and run. but he should have slowly and politely bowed out to go back to real business.
8 - Kevin
Michelle,
And your opinion is simply an opinion about an opinion.
Look, we could go on for days and days debating whether or not Bush did the right or wrong thing. I simply brought up Lee Hamilton's opinion because 1) He's a Democrat and, with the exception of Zell Miller, most Democrats despise Bush, and 2) The 9/11 Commission was very hostile towards Bush and most liberals thought their findings were "gospel".
9 - Michelle
i don't know why you're starting this controversy on here anyway. do you feel threatened by a simple movie review?
i didn't even put any controversy into my review. all i did was stating which scenes i found most interesting to myself and what i thought about the movie in general.
now move on and vote the way you want. i do not care about your political standpoint.
10 - Kevin
Michelle,
Hmmm, I guess I must've hit a sore spot, eh?
Let me give you a bit of advice: I don't give a rat's hairy backside what you think about my political persuasion (which is conservative), but don't post a review on a public forum and then get pissed when someone refutes what you say or tries to engage you in debate.
As for me being threatened by a simple movie review, I'm pretty thick-skinned and was just looking for a bit of debate. You, on the other hand, have adopted the standard progressive/liberal line of reasoning: Don't confuse me with the facts.
11 - Michelle
oh boy, believe me, it wasn't necessary to tell me what your political standpoint is. your opinions and your maniac urge to try to convince me to believe in whatever you believe just screamed - "I am a conservative!"
if you want to have a political debate, check out political forums, but leave the video forum alone. if i felt like making this a political debate, i'd be on political forums right now and not on here.
i'm not gonna keep on "engaging" with you in political discussions anymore. it is pointless to discuss with conservatives, because even if they saw evidence, they still would say it doesn't exist. you act like the lemmings that kept supporting Hitler until Germany went down the river.
12 - Michelle
additionally to inform you: i'm neither a democrat nor a republican.
13 - Kevin
Ahhh, old "Nazi=conservative" argument. Pathetic...
NADER RULES!
14 - JR
Well, the Nazis were conservatives, weren't they?
15 - Michelle
i've added another book recommendation to my movie review: The Wave. it's based on a true story that once happened in California. a must-read for people that haven't seen the light yet.
16 - TDavid
I didn't see Bowling for Columbine and whether this film is currently a (short-lived) #1 or not, I am not all that much more excited about seeing this.
Now Spider-man 2? We'll be hitting that one for sure. They are releasing that a full week and a half early. Expect huge numbers for this sequel ...
17 - Mark Edward Manning
JR: "Well, the Nazis were conservatives, weren't they?"
Wrong! Do you know what NAZI stood for? It was German for "National Socialists"!
18 - Douglas Mays
Regarding all the comments about Bush sitting around in the classroom. Well in my eye he should have made a quick, graceful exit. Oh man, you betcha! Sorry, this is a national EMERGENCY!!!! Get a grip Mr. W. This ain't rock n roll, It's genocide. Get on the ball, stat!!!
As for the movie itself, yeah, it has a point of view. Facts mixed with opinion. So what?! If you can't distinguish between the two then what are you doing voting? Sure, people say that the facts are things we have all seen on the news. Not entirely. It is great to have facts/news presented in the cinema. Just like newsreels. Not everyone has the same facts. Everyone has different news sources.
"I get all the news I need from the weather report"...(Simon and Garfunkel)
peacloveguidance
19 - Michelle
i didn't say those conservatives were Nazis. i said they act like lemmings like they did when Hitler still had power.
lemming = "Any of various small, thickset rodents, especially of the genus Lemmus, inhabiting northern regions and known for periodic mass migrations that sometimes end in drowning."
20 - Douglas Mays
Michelle, you're alright. I got around to reading some of the other comments and yeah, you're cool.
Oh, so 9/11. Where was the Emergency Broadcast System? For all those years listening to: "for the next 60 seconds..." one would think that we had an ememgency on our hands.
Oh well,
peaceloveguidance
21 - JR
Wrong! Do you know what NAZI stood for? It was German for "National Socialists"!
Yes, the Nazis were conservative. The name means nothing; once Hitler took over, he forced out the leftists and made it one of the most socially and politically conservative parties in Germany. The Nazis were pro-business, pro-military, anti-civil liberties, anti-modernism, and rabidly anti-communist. All Hitler did for the workers was take over their unions, lower their wages, increase their hours, promise them a car they never got, and then draft them and send them to their deaths. He was a Nationalist but not a Socialist.
22 - Mike Kole
You bet Hitler was a socialist. The fascist strain of socialism permits the private ownership of capital, but demands centrally planned output. Hitler was 'pro-business' to the extent that a business produced what it was told to produce.
23 - Duncan
Right,
So, about this Michael Moore thing:
First thing that I want to say is that it was very American orientated this time. It was the last time too, in Bowling for Columbine, but he also expanded his outlook to further than just the borders of the US. This time he focused on the internal set up in the U.S. vis-à-vis the American ruling class and it’s close and insidious ties, not just amongst it’s own members, but with outside agencies such as the Saudi ruling family. He also turned his attention to the “little man”, the working class families, that are caught up in doing the actual fighting in Iraq. He followed the story of one woman, and the dreadful lose of her son in Iraq. She almost turned from pro army and war to anti army and war, and she was left with such pain, it was hard to watch.
This film also highlighted an expansion in Michael’s understanding of the world, in terms of class struggle and hierarchical structures. He highlighted the conditions necessary to perpetuate the status quo in terms of fear. The documentary featured a psychologist who spoke very soundly on the “state of fear” that is being produced by the colour coding of terrorist threats from green through blue on to orange and then to red. This colour coding system is backed up and enforced by continual changes in status level and unconfirmed and unfounded threats being broadcast on the daily or hourly news channels. The telling statement at this stage of the documentary was that there is no way that the “threat”, or “construed threat” as it should be labelled, will ever go to “Green”. Although it is an obvious statement, it’s one that needs to be heard, as it will get folk thinking.
The general feel of this documentary was one of intense knowledge being imparted. One felt like one was in a class room, with names, dates, facts, figures being thrown at one, however, although slightly laboured and a little overwhelming at times, the importance of what was being said was not diluted.
In fact, the documentary cleverly used a lot of sound bites and historical footage to highlight just how irrational, opportunistic and parasitic the ruling class can be. With completely contradictory statements being heard from the mouths of high-level figures in the current US Bush administration. The impact of the facts and figures was further highlighted by some horrific footage of beheadings, burning bodies, wounded and dead civilians and disaffected and disillusioned American soldiers.
There are two points that I am very glad that he rose. Firstly, he highlighted whom “politicians” really “work” for and secondly, hinted at the hierarchical structure that is the very nature of the whole system.
First point first. There is footage of George W. Bush addressing a ruling class “elite” dinner. To quote:
“What an impressive crowd: the haves, and the have-mores. Some people call you the elite, I call you my base..”
More, much more, could have been made of this point, but as it was, it was sort of put out there, but glanced over. This is a central point to what it is to be “under” capitalism. Working class folk, voters in general, have hitherto felt that the government and politicians were there for them, and to serve their needs, this highlights the fact that this was a completely false assumption. As already noted, this documentary was very American centred, however this point about politicians, if it was more generic, could have included a piece about the “Privy Council” in the United Kingdom, and the fact that all cabinet members have to swear allegiance to a group of un-elected, un-accountable people.
The second point, regarding the hierarchical structure of society ties in neatly with the first point of allegiance. The hierarchical nature of society and the controls and mechanisms that are necessary for it’s continuation were highlighted throughout the documentary in terms of fear and the control which that afforded the ruling classes over the oppressed masses. Latterly he highlighted the fact that maybe this was not the best way to organise production and hence society.
Although, throughout the film, the proceeding two points were minor ones, the fact that Michael chose to include them in this piece is very telling, in terms of both his personal development and understanding as well as being very thought provoking to the general masses, like you and I.
Another significant indicator of Michael’s thinking was the fact that the word “Capitalism” was never once mentioned. One can take this as a very clever way of circumventing the irrational and dogmatic appeal that the word, and it’s connotations of freedom and justice, has on the American public, hence removing barriers to the film in terms of understanding and acceptance, from the populace at large. Or, if you look at it in a slightly more negative way, he still assumes that some form of capitalism is possible, with just the current “big players” needing removed.
In retrospect, it’s hard to cling to the idea that he feels that Capital is the way forward, though he’s been clever enough not to put a label on the god of the people. He has crucified the current system, in terms of its main players and supporters, but he has not labelled the system and hence can get away with that. I dare say that this cinematic piece would have been very differently received if he had labelled the system as capitalism and said that it was rotten to the core, which of course, in terms of decay, may not be a though that he shares.
Another major aspect of this piece of work is that it was delivered via the cinema screens. In a sociological sense, media, especially the TV and the cinema have a huge impact on the psyche of individuals. It has been the media that has oppressed them, shaped them, made them think as they think and shown them they way forward for so many years, in all its formats, from TV through cinema, to the newspapers and books. It is fitting with both ironic justice and dialectical thought, that one form of weighted communication, cinema, will highlight the pitfalls, the terror and tyranny of the system that created it, hence showing the way forward to thinking individuals. As Karl Marx said;
"What the bourgeoisie, therefore, produces, above all, is its own grave-diggers. Its fall and the victory of the proletariat are equally inevitable"
He’s still accurate, all these years down the line. He has still to have his renaissance; we are still to have our chance to shine, as a race.
Prison
These walls that have been constructed
They can not be seen, touched, smelled or affected
You see, they crumble, from the inside
Just like the sand, before the rolling tide.
And just as surely as the tide comes and goes
From here, to who knows?
The walls are creaking and straining
Inside their world, it’s continually raining
Their sky is grey and overcast,
they know they have to fight to the last,
But when the last is, only we can decide
Take it upon ourselves, do it with pride!
In Solidarity,
Dunk