If ever a movie made you walk in someone else's shoes, this is it. So grab your masculine pride and head to the video store.
Obviously, Brokeback Mountain is not for everyone, as evidenced by how many people were too nervous to go see it in packed theaters during its extended run. It’s not what you expect either, since it has no mincing fairies, no comic-relief limp-wristed lisping queens, and absolutely no preaching, hidden messages or agendas. In fact the main character-Ennis (Heath Ledger) is probably one of the most "manly" men ever seen in a movie.…
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— go to most recent comments26 - Jet in Columbus
That's because I like reading my own stuff, just ask the arch conman.
Oops, I guess I just did it again.
27 - Truth Hurts
This movie is a travesty. It glorifies a way of life which is destroying our society. Their is nothing good about homosexuality. It is unnatural and destroys the innocence of those people who choose to participate it this disgusting perversion. I watched the first half hour of this movie just to see what everyone was talking about, I nearly fell asleep before I threw up at the sodomy scene. Good work homosexuals....way to errode the fabric of American society.
28 - Jet in Columbus
Odd, I'm not hurt, you're not telling the truth
29 - Jet in Columbus
Truth hurts, if you really want something to sink your teeth into, you should try my article on bigotry and fundamentalists.
It's a hoot!
30 - Jet in Columbus
Okay, I'm reading words like unnatural, travesty,
sodomy, and homosexuality. Not words that'd come out of the mouth of someone willing to give the movie/DVD "a chance"
Had you seen it and not liked it, and you were been as openminded as you cliaim, I'd see rational reasons why you didn't like it and I'd respect your opinions.
However by you spewing such hate language, I doubt you'd spend the $17 "just to give it a chance"
Therefore, I'd conclude you never saw the movie, and are some born-again freak just wanting to get his/her/kicks posting a phoney comment.
Just remember that if your erection lasts more than 4 hours, you should consult a physician immediately.
{:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~
31 - SteveS
Why is it that the more right wing and fundamental you go, the less capable you are of spelling?
It glorifies a way of life which is destroying our society.
It shows pain and loss and discrimination and a form of oppression. What exactly does it glorify and how? Oh yeah, I forgot you didn't watch it but are prepared to tell us what it's about.
way to errode the fabric of American society.
Gay people have been in existance long before America was founded. Gay people were part of America since the beginning. Gay peope are just as much a part of the fabric of this country as fundamentalists. The change is that we just no longer remain quiet about who we are and no longer look upon your prejudice and uneducated spelling habits in silence now but are willing to tell you to your face to shut the bigotry up. That's really all that's changed.
32 - SteveS
peope = my right wing moment!
33 - Jet in Columbus
Nope that's just carpul tunnel syndrome, or is it corpal, no carpel
hmmmmm
34 - Jet in Columbus
I wonder how many identities "Truth hurts' has.
By the way, when I googled Brokeback mountain a couple of days ago in the news tab, this came up about 8th, it doesn't now, but I thought it was really cool.
35 - Scott Butki
I find it interesting how many
guys think it's funny to write variations on Brokeback - buttback, etc.
Wonder if that is showing insecurity or just a juvenile sense of humor or what.
That said, I think you're overreaching, Jet, when you suggest that guys watching guys in sporting events suggests some kind of gay leanings or interest of heterosexuals.
Now I can't recall if that comment by you was in this thread or in the other one about this movie.
36 - Jet in Columbus
A man can admire another man's athletic ability without being homoSEXual, was what I was trying to stress.
To be completely 100 percent hetrosexual, a man wouldn't be able to stand the sight, or the company of another man. Heterosexuality encoumpasses just SEX. A man can admire Ahlold's muscles, or be a judge at a muscleman contest, or love a baseball player's skill on the diamond without being sexually attracted to him.
Having posters of your favorite socker or football player, or WWF musclebound wrestler up on your wall doesn't make you gay by any means, but if you were completely hetrosexual, you wouldn't be able to stand the sight of them.
To be COMPLETELY hetro, would mean not having anything to do with the same sex, and in that area we all fall into the middle somewhere.
Before you dispute that, if you were offered one million dollars tax free to have all-out no-holds-barred sex with the man of your choice at the local gym for only ten minutes, would you do it?
37 - Jet in Columbus
No doubt about it, I gotta get that damned spell checker fixsed fisxked fixsed uh looked at.
38 - Scott Butki
To be completely 100 percent hetrosexual, a man wouldn't be able to stand the sight, or the company of another man.
Yes, this is the point I don't buy. Since when does heterosexuality mean a man can't stand the sight of another man?
By that logic homosexuals can't stand the sight of women yet I know lots of women who hang around gay guys and vice versa.
39 - WTF?
Jet, your "definition" of heterosexuality is ridiculous. Where did you come up with that?
40 - SteveS
My guess is that he's basing it on this premise:
Heterosexuality encoumpasses just SEX. (comment 36). But our orientation is tempered with other factors of our intellect.
I'm of the mindset that the opposite of attraction is not repulsion but indifference, in regards to mating/sex. So I don't think that a pure heterosexual being, motivated solely by the sexual impulse, is repelled by someone of the same sex, but just rather not aroused. On a primal level, possibly threatened but not repelled.
I think when you get into being repelled by something, whether it's the same sex or opposite sex, then you get into complex issues that are affecting the orientation, whether it's inner desires you are combatting or something else.
41 - Jet in Columbus
Scott #38. We're talking on a scale here, and completely hetrosexual.
42 - Jet in Columbus
WTF#39 From experience in life. I've met a woman who was so completely heterosexual, she couldn't stand the company and sight of other women, to the point where she could only have a good time in male gay bars.
We're talking extreme degrees here people. Of course it sounds strange, because most of us are either near, but not at, either end of the scale.
43 - Jet in Columbus
Steve #40. Heterosexuality encoumpasses just SEX.
You caught me at a typo, it should've read Heterosexuality encoumpasses not just SEX.
Thanks, and thanks for fleshing out the concept so intelligently
Jet
44 - WTF?
Sorry, Jet, I'm not convinced. That woman who can't stand to be around other women? That could be attributed to a ton of other psychological characteristics aside from her sexual orientation. That example means nothing.
45 - Jet in Columbus
So be it WTF. If I can't convince you, then in your eyes, I know absolutely nothing about it, I'm wrong, and have no idea what I'm talking about.
Thank you for clearing that up for me.
Jet
46 - Jet in Columbus
Okay kids, hear's the scale.
1. Hormonal sexual attraction
2. Emotional attraction
3. Kindred attraction
1 on the scale is completely Heterosexual, 5 is bi-sexual-10 is completely Homosexual.
Okay your a male...
Example 1
1) Hormonally you're completely attracted to women on a physical level. 1 point
2) On an emotional level, you love your brother, your father, your uncle, and you're completely secure in your manhood. You equally love your Mother and sisters... 5 Points
3) Kindred: You prefer the company of men as friends, you play basketall, go out drinking with your buddies leaving the wife at home... 7 out of 10 of your friends are straight men. 7 points.
Example 1 total 13 points of a possible 30
On a the scale of 1 to 10 with one being completely straight and 10 being completely gay, that makes you a 2.3
Example 2
A woman
1)hormonaly attracted only to men 1 Point
2)Emotionally only able to deal with men, can't stand to be around her mother or sister, and avoids all contact with women as much as possible
1 Point
3)Kindred-she has no female friends, only male
1 point
Example total 3 Points out a possible 30
On a scale of 1-10 she's a 1-Completely Heterosexual.
But I have no idea what I'm talking about.
sorry
47 - Jet in Columbus
WTF, what no argument? I'm disappointed in you!
48 - SteveS
is that a kinsey scale? I won't argue with it, but I'm of the belief that we are more complex than what can be put in a scale. I think at different times of my life, I would give different answers (numbers). Also, this (or any scale) wraps things up into a yes or no (of desire) based solely on gender. You put two women side by side though, and many guys can be attracted to one woman but not the other, know what I mean? Just playing devil's advocate.
However, if I were to take this test, it does seem to play out accurately for me....
Hormonally, I would be a 5. Right in the middle.
In terms of emotional love, I would be a 9.
In terms of kindred, I would be a 1, I have all female friends, 0 guy friends.
That's 15 out of 30, or a 5 on a scale of 1 to 10. I would think that fits me accurately. But at different times of my life, there would have been different numbers, for example in high school all my friends were the freeks/goths and all but 2 were guys. In terms of kindred, back then, I would have had to give myself an 8 instead of a 1.
49 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks SteveS #48. It shows that certain people insist that everyone be labeled either by number or by an adjective.
I can't remember who invented the scale, but it works very well.
Myself, I'm about a 8.9
Thanks for being a kindred spirit
Jet
50 - WTF?
Ok, Ok, Jet, calm down, no need to be defensive. I never said you didn't know what you were talking about. But that one random example of that one random woman didn't really mean anything, especially when taken out of context.
Secondly, I love you gave me, oh, 12 hours to respond before being all "Where's your argument, WTF?" Sorry, I have other things to do, too, like checking email and clipping my toenails.
Thirdly, I have to admit, I have been under the impression that "heterosexuality," "homosexuality" and "bisexuality" refers to just that: the "sexual" orientation of someone. I've never heard/thought about how one's emotional or kindred attractions are a part of it. While I agree that most people are usually not 100?% homo- or heterosexual, I'm not sure that someone friendships are a part of it.
If a man only wants to have sex with women, then to me, he's hetero. If most or all of his friends are male, but he still, deep down, only wants to have sex with women, then I would still consider him completely hetero, because he doesn't want to have sex with, or have sexual attraction to, his male friends. Being platonically attracted to another man isn't the same as being sexually attracted to him.
As far as this "kindred" attraction, well, I guess I'd have to have a definition of a "kindred" attraction because I'm not sure exactly what that's referring to.
51 - WTF?
That was supposed to be:
"I'm not sure that someone's friendships are a part of it."
Anyway, you've definitely given me something to think about.
52 - Scott Butki
Jet, you're reducing a person's orientation to the physical act of sex and I'm not sure what that is accomplishing.
Using an anecdote to back up the idea that a person can't stand another's presence is an odd foundation for the argument.
So anyone who works with other men - namely almost all men- can't be heterosexual because they are able to stand their presence?
You also skipped my question about gay men and women hanging out.
53 - Jet in Columbus
WTF 50 & 51. Thank you for that. There was a time in my life when I tried hard to love a girl. It broke my heart, I loved her emotionally, I loved her as a kindred spirit who shared my views on a lot of things, I loved her physically and often.
But every time we were out enjoying ourselves, my hormones would start bubbling every time a good looking guy walked into my field of view. I prayed, I did my best to ignore it, but it didn't work.
I finally had to break it off with her, because I loved her, and didn't want to face that I couldn't love her completely and it wouldn't be fair to her.
I find women attractive physically and sexually, but men cause a reaction in me that goes deeper than my soul can overcome, and rather than fight who I am, and maybe hurt someone else, I yielded to my hormones.
Now I'm happy.
I'd never want to bring kids into that, because they'd know I didn't love their mother completely and in the way she deserved. Kids can see a lot more than we give them credit for.
I guess I've knew I was gay all my life, it just took that situation to face it.
They say being gay isn't a choice... but it is. It's a choice to stop lying to yourself and to the people you love, just to make everyone in the world happy but yourself.
I've poured out my soul, let's see how many people spit on it now.
Jet
54 - Jet in Columbus
Scott #52 See #46
It's not reducing it to just sex. Straight bigots reduce it to just sex, as if that's all there is to being gay.
It takes into account your hormones.
It takes into account the people you prefer to call your friends
It takes into account the people you love.
Working with other men is something you have no choice over, but you choose who you love, and you choose who your friends are. You have no choice who your hormones react to.
Gay men hanging out with women falls under the catagory of kindred spirits, and is covered as an entire third of the scale.
You know, I've been critisized as discarding anything I don't agree with, but that's not true. The fact that other points of view care enough to put down their thoughts here, means a lot to me, because it means that I haven't been discarded.
That's why I take the time to stop and respond to everyone.
thanks
Jet
55 - WTF?
OK, I don't have time to respond to everything you said because I'm about to go to bed. But, as much as I commend you for your honesty and your personal choices that you so bravely shared, I feel the need to bring up this sentence:
"They say being gay isn't a choice... but it is. It's a choice to stop lying to yourself and to the people you love, just to make everyone in the world happy but yourself."
While I believe being gay is not a choice, it hasn't actually been proven true (the lack of scientific evidence is a whole other post altogether). However, if I may, I believe what you are saying is coming out is the choice of which you're speaking and the consequences you're describing. There's a HUGE difference between saying "being gay" is a choice and "coming out" (or "being openly gay") is a choice, and I think that distinction needs to be made.
56 - Jet in Columbus
WTF #55 YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. I have a bad habit of getting several ideas in my head at the same time that get jumbled together, and my fingers aren't fast enough to type them out and keep up with me at the same time.
You're right, I meant coming out, and i meant facing my sexual orientation.
thank you sir for watching out for me and pointing that out
I appreciate it.
Jet
57 - Jet in Columbus
My friends, my sister just called me to tell me my father passed away at 6:30 this evening, so I'll leave you to fight this out on your own for about a week.
More when I can
Jet
58 - chantal stone
Jet.....I'm really sorry to hear about your dad. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Remember, if you need to vent, and get things off your chest, just write about it, and we'll all be here to listen.
Take care
Love, chantal
59 - Jet in Columbus
Chantal #58. You're one of the nicest people I deal with here, thanks.
You may regret making the offer though.
Love
jet
60 - Jet in Columbus
Well, it looks like Randy Quaid finally came to his senses and dropped his $10 million lawsuit against Focus Features!
The details seem to be a little hazy, because Randy claims they agreed to pay him more, which he states he'll share with other cast members he claims were under paid, but Focus Features denies any contact with him???
This is a shame that someone like Quaid would let greed come into the picture. He plays one of the strongest characters in the film, but he should stick to his word and his contract.
There was no way to predict this movie would be such a success, and he had the option to work for a percentage instead of scale, probably picking scale because he didn't think it would make much money either.
Stay tuned as more details become available!
61 - Jet in Columbus
News Flash: Jake Gyllenhall and Michelle Williams were named by the Teen version of People Magazine in their June/July issue as two of their picks for "25 Hottest Stars Under 25" in TV, film, and music.
You didn't have to tell me about Jake...
62 - nugget
jet: BB was just not that good. It may have been for a "cause" and all that stuff, but it wasn't that great of a movie. The indigo girls and Angels in America are the two biggest artistic triumphs rooted in the gay community.
63 - nugget
and before you go crazy...
Listening to the music of the Indigo girls is listening to true song writing, harmonic and layering brilliance. The depth of their work is spellbindingly good. It makes a straight person (who may have had previous doubts about the depth and intensity of someone who is truly gay)......it makes a straight person think "wow, ya know they may be lesbians, but they really mean something. They really feel love. They have felt hardship and are quite resilient in their work."
When someone watches "Angels in America" for the first time, they may be a bit turned off by the butt sex scenes, but there is SOOO much more to the series that it is very easy to look past anything that is footnotish. You feel for the characters, understand their relationships, and many truths were disclosed about human nature in that series.
For someone who liked Angels in America and loves the Indigo Girls, I can tell you that Brokeback Mountain is crappy compaired to the art I've mentioned. That movie forces you to assume that they "love" each other so much, but it never CONVINCES you. It screams "look look we're soooo in love. look isn't this weird? two masculine men in love? cowboys to boot? (no pun intended) how odd, yet perfect!?"
Borrrring. It's too obvious what it was they were selling. I understand the concepts. But the movie was forgettable.
64 - Jet in Columbus
Nugget 62: I beg to differ. Having lived through an experience very similar to the end of Brokeback, I can tell you that it touched me like no movie has ever touched me before, and obviously many others as well.
65 - Jet in Columbus
PS, I'm more of a Pet Shop Boys fan, and can't stand Indigo Girls. I guess that means I'm not allowed to be gay anymore?
Alan Parson
Pink Floyd
Genisis
Fleetwood Mac
I'm not discarding your opinion, because it's just as valid as mine. I'm not getting upset either. Just don't invalidate my feelings because you disagree with them.
66 - Jet in Columbus
Nugget, I don't know how to put this without making it sound like a put down, because it isn't, but to your comment... "That movie forces you to assume that they "love" each other so much, but it never CONVINCES you."
The prove of their love is that they never actually say "I love you" through the whole movie. It's so strong they don't have to keep repeatedly reminding eachother to make sure of it. Ask any happily married and truly in love couple when the last time they said "I love you" was, and if it's deep and committed they'll likely have no idea, because they don't have to express it out loud, it's known.
For most people they say "I love you" hoping the other party will say it back. Jack and Ennis never had a need for that, it was known.
I'm sorry, but you can't be more wrong. So many movies today lay everything out for you so you don't have to think. Brokeback Mountain makes you get inside the character's heads, you have to dig for it as hard as Ennis does. You have to see how much Ennis is struggling to bury it so deep inside of himself and the want he feels so deeply that if only he could let go and love Jack openly. You have to understand the shame society is beating him up with and how much he's hiding from it.
When Cassie leaves him for another man, you can see how much he aches with guilt that he'd used her.
Jack's line, "Sometimes... I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."
It's all there in Ennis' face, when Jack's father tells him that Jack was going to bring the ranch foreman with him instead of Ennis to "whip this place back into shape".
When he discovers on Jack's desk the little horse Ennis was whittling in the tent during the rain storm on the mountian, or finds those shirts in the closet, if you didn't cry, you don't have a heart.
Maybe you can find the short story it's based on and read it before seeing it on DVD again. Unfortunately the movie couldn't have a narrator to explain what was going on in Ennis' mind.
I want a move that makes me figure things out, and makes me think about it afterward, rather than one that laid out on a 4th grade level that you forget most of 10 minutes after you leave the theater.
Thanks for your contribution, I think you're thoughts are valid, but they don't agree with mine.
Jet
67 - Silas Kain
For all those who are lamenting the evils of Brokeback Mountain, let me recommend the Velocity of Gary. The passion scenes between Vincent D'Onofrio and Thomas Jane are absolutely mind blowing (pardon the pun). My ultimate fantasy is to strap a dozen right wing fundamentalists to gurneys and force them to watch Brokeback, Gary and Kinsey in one evening. You know, ala A Clockwork Orange. It's just too delicious for words.
68 - chantal stone
Silas, you are diabolical.....I love it!
good to see you posting again :)
69 - Silas Kain
Yes I am. Thanks. I am looking forward to another season of stirring up emotions here at BC. I'm longing for some hate mail.
70 - nugget
jet: that's all fine. You may have thought that was particularly powerful, but it wasn't that powerful to me. I could give a crap if a straight couple never said "I love you" in a movie. It wouldn't automatically make it more meaningful. I'm not sure why you chose that tangent. You can't convince me that the movie was "so powerful." I saw it for myself!
If I remember Casablanca, I'm pretty sure Humphrey Bogart didn't spew out "I love yous" to impress the audience. Casablanca was a tale of forbidden love as well. The difference between Casablanca and Brokeback is that Casablanca had GREAT writing. The nuanced relationships that all the characters shared was nothing short of brilliant.
Let's be honest jet. You WANT brokeback to be a great movie universally because you are gay. It's that simple. I've never had a thing against gay people or seeing them on a big screen. I've always had a thing against overrated art. Brokeback was a mediocre movie. It wasn't BAD, but it wasn't particularly good.
71 - Jet in Columbus
#69 Chantal, should I be worried about him?
72 - Jet in Columbus
Silas 69, you won't be getting any from me.
Thanks
73 - Jet in Columbus
Nugget, I thought I explained the tangent rather well by quoting you "That movie forces you to assume that they "love" each other so much, but it never CONVINCES you" and then used those examples to answer that.
I will be honest with you. I llved through a relationship where I was kept from expressing myself until he died in a car accident, and then it was soo late.
The point of the movie is to cherish and acknowledge what you have, because in a flash you could lose it. I lost my lover before I could tell him what he really meant to me. I recently lost my father before I could tell him I loved him too.
Wanting the movie to sell well has nothing to do with any gay rights campaign, that's a cop out, and I'm not all that political on that front.
This movie touched my life intimately, and it was the first time I cried in about 5 years.
Just because it didn't touch you, doesn't mean it didn't touch others... millions of others. I'm sorry all you can see is a political agenda, because you missed a damned good love story.
74 - David Ben-Ariel
Brokeback Mountain Blues
I was recently visiting in West Virginia and my friend, a female senior citizen, was asking another senior whether or not we should watch the dvd of Brokeback Mountain (which was loaned to them by an 81 year old lady who liked it), and her sister answered that she heard it was "all about sex" and wasn't "anxious" to watch it.
I surprised myself by speaking up and saying that simply wasn't true; that the garbage on television makes Brokeback Mountain look tame. Not that two wrongs make a right, but folks should just be honest about everything, eh?
75 - Jet in Columbus
PLEASE PAY NO ATTENTION TO COMMENT 74 AND DON'T CLICK ON THE URLS. He is preaching hate and self-loathing and should be ignored.
Thank you
Jet