Some advice for The View's token conservative before the Loose Change guys appear on her show.
Thursday, May 24 will be a big day for the creators of Loose Change, the wildly successful Internet “documentary” which says the Pentagon was struck by a missile instead of a plane, the World Trade Center was brought down by a controlled demolition, and that the passengers on United Airlines Flight 93 were taken to Cleveland and then spirited away, presumably to Mars.…
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26 - Blanch
By the way, it's MRS Hasselbeck, not MS. Hasselbeck. I wonder greatly how researched the author's article is.
27 - Alec
I agree that it is not up to Elisabeth Hasselbeck, or any other conservative commentator to attack the junk science and nuttiness of 9/11 conspiracy clowns. The show might be half-way interesting if they brought on a psychologist to explain why some people have a need to invent and hold onto conspiracy theories that always involve some nearly omnipotent outside force. There is no material difference between the 911 Truth Movement, people who believe in alien contact, or even Jerry Falwell's nutty statements about 911 being God's punishment of the US.
28 - Charles
Blanch,
That is the most rediculous response I have ever seen. Implying the author did not do research on the events of 9/11 because he was unaware of the marital status of someone on the view?
29 - Deano
Frank Parker,
The key words are "honest and thoughtful" and the 9/11 deniers are neither. They are exploitative, manipulative and dishonest. They routinely take supposition and theory and present it as proven fact and in many cases, push bald-faced lies as truth. For The View to provide a forum for this type of crass exploitation is asinine. It is not news, it is speculative fiction (and bad speculative fiction at that). It clearly demonstrates both the shallow and vacuous approach the US media takes to the news and by lending credence and enabling this stupidity, it lends itself to the further "dumbing down" the citizenry who would rather believe in make-believe shadowy forces of the government manipulating events in secret then actually sit up and try to understand current events.
It is nice however that you got your Phd. in Physics....perhaps it will be useful when you head off next to disprove the moon landing, find that lost Templer treasure or capture the Loch Ness monster....
I have yet to see any of the proported "evidence" of a conspiracy stand up to outside scientific scrutiny (and please note this is not an invitation to post any - try to stay on topic) and the vast majority of the anti-9/11ers seem to be narcissitic attention-seekers and conspiracy nuts. None of the comments in this thread seem evident to the contrary.
30 - Nancy
I wish "stupidity really ought to be a crime": the first one to be convicted & executed would be our dear Fearless Leader, Dubya Bush!
31 - Nancy
It says volumes about this administration that so many (even if they are of the opposite party) are willing to believe such a theory. Frankly, this administration has brought this kind of suspicion on itself through endless (& usually totally gratuitous) lies, spin, & chicanery of a kind that dwarfs even the nefarious admin of Tricky Dickie Nixon & his band of goons.
I wouldn't be surprised if in the future it did come out that BushCo (if not Dubya himself, definitely Cheney) did have forewarning of 9/11 & allowed it to happen. It's only recently been revealed that Roosevelt AND Churchill 'allowed' Pearl Harbor to happen, in order to bring the US into WWII. IMO, that makes both Roosevelt & Churchill, not world heroes, but murderers. It also teaches me to put NOTHING past those in power in any government, including (or especially) the US, since they obviously regard The People as expendables to be destroyed or manipulated at will.
32 - Alec
re: It's only recently been revealed that Roosevelt AND Churchill 'allowed' Pearl Harbor to happen, in order to bring the US into WWII. IMO, that makes both Roosevelt & Churchill, not world heroes, but murderers.
This claim about Roosevelt and Churchill distorts the historical evidence and recently disclosed documents, but it is a good example of the ridiculous claims of conspiracy theorists. Roosevelt could have "allowed" Pearl Harbor to happen only if he had absolute knowledge that the US and its Allies would win World War II. This is absurd. Since the attack on Pearl Harbor (and also on Singapore and the Philippines) effectively crippled US and British naval capability in the Pacific, it was just as possible that the Axis could have pressed their advantage and forced Britain into an unconditional surrender before the US could ramp up any military opposition.
911 conspiracy theorists, like WW II conspirators, appear to hold an odd belief that the West, or the US, or the UK or the Catholic Church or any of a number of usual suspects are nearly omnipotent. There is an infantile core of condescension and even racism here in that these conspirators don't seem to believe that anyone other than some mystical and mythical white ruling class is capable of exercising power.
33 - Nancy
No, but a good many people in power seem to believe THEY are omnipotent. Take Dubya, for example. Kind of like kids never think they can be injured or die....
34 - Blanch
Charles;
I didn't imply his article was un-researched. I am merely wondering if it was.
You may have inferred that, but I did not imply it.
35 - ghamal
If this was a rational society we would draft the best from our citizenry to study the issue and present all the facts to the American public on television in a accessible honest way. We need a better way to handle this than by trying to bury it and insulting the messengers.
36 - daryl d
I truly believe that our administration knew 911 was coming, but chose not to do anything because they could take advantage of it, maniuplate people, etc. I don't believe in whacky demolition theories and statements about the Flight 93 members being taken to Mars, but this administration knew about 911, plain and simple.
37 - conchubar
I know this is a bit off-topic, but just to clarify something. The title "Miss" applies to an unmarried female. "Mrs" designates a married female. And "Ms" is an appellation that can be applied to either, their marital status notwithstanding.
38 - Henry Palozz
"I truly believe that our administration knew 911 was coming, but chose not to do anything because they could take advantage of it, maniuplate people, etc. I don't believe in whacky demolition theories and statements about the Flight 93 members being taken to Mars, but this administration knew about 911, plain and simple."
I agree. Also I think there is something off in WTC 7 because of the BBC's reporting there.
Look at what Canadian intelligence agencies knew about the Air India bombing. They didn't do anything, and we only found out 20 years after the fact (a few months ago).
There's a classified report on US intelligence agencies' responses leading up to 9/11 that a democrat believes embarasses too many people, so the FOIA isn't going through.
BTW I heard that the Loose Change on the View thing was just cancelled.
39 - Steve Barry
"Stupidity really ought to be a capital crime."
What a stupid thing to say.
Insulting the 9/11 truth crowd will not dissuade them. Try thoughtful debate.
40 - carmen
about today's view.
Rosie is the View. Rosie and Joy Behar are the intellectuals of this show. The view is no longer focussing on the poor old ladies who usually watch soap operas and eating bon bons. Rosie has made the show more interesting and informative. The misfit Elisabeth can not hold more than one thought at a time, can not speak clearly, has to scratch her thighs, head and other parts of the body million times, always use many 'uhms' in one sentence since she can not think coherently. What a misfit for the show.
carmen
41 - Steve Barry.
I also want to add that Alex Jones doesn't own the truth movement. And the not all the truthers are from the left. The reality is that a great deal of people are questioning the official 9/11 account. Deal with it.
42 - STM
"Try thoughtful debate."
Please ... spare us. How can you have thoughtful debate with conspiracy theorists? Anyone who can't work out what really happened on 9/11 - or chooses not to see the REAL truth despite all the evidence available - and makes a federal case out of it probably needs to be examined for conditions that would ordinarily render them incapable of being taken seriously.
Post 9/11, the "truthers" are the real victims of this nonsense, not those who choose to see reality.
43 - Alec
Steve Barry - re: Insulting the 9/11 truth crowd will not dissuade them. Try thoughtful debate.
The problem with the 9/11 Truth Movement is that, like all conspiracy theorists, they willfully ignore the facts and fall back on the idea of a mysterious "they" who are always suppressing the "real truth." If you confront them with simple question, "what evidence would convince you that you are wrong?" they have to throw up evasions because they are wedded to their conspiracy theory and ignore anything which might contradict it.
For example, on a recent episode of The View, Rosie O'Donnell repeated the canard that the heat from the jet fuel could not have melted the steel structure of the World Trade Center Towers. Rosie and the so-called Truth squad willfully ignore the example, just a few weeks ago, of a single relatively slow moving gas tanker which exploded and melted the steel and concrete of a section of a freeway in the Bay area. An event that was supposedly "impossible," based on the nutty claims of the 911 conspiracy bunch, turns out to be not so unusual after all.
There was an excellent article published not too long ago in Skeptic Magazine that examined the 911 conspiracy claims, found them all ridiculous, and also admirably showed that there is simply no grand suppression of "hidden" evidence.
44 - Honest Questions
This saddens me. What (exactly) would the bar of evidence be for those who say that it was 19 arabs with box cutters?
What, to you, would qualify as "proof"?
P.S. This is an honest question. I have studied the events surrounding 9/11 in great depth, and the official story is comical in it's implausibility. What would be required for all of you believing in the official conspiracy to demand a new investigation?
45 - Nothing to hide, nothing to fear?
I'll put my faith in the scientists, architects, engineers, physicisists and former US military intelligence officers, the soldiers, the mechanics, the scholars, who simply put words onto what is clearly visible to anyone who has taken the time to look at the evidence.
9/11 was an inside job, and a blueprint for one of its precedents can be read by anyone in the now de-classified "Northwood Project" documents. The neo-cons even thoroughly documented their MO as the "Plan For A New American Century" manifesto (PNAC). PNAC calls for pre-emptive military strikes and forced 'regime change' in 'hostile' countries. PNAC calls for endless, hugely profitable wars against a nebulous foe so dangerous that the only way your government can keep you safe is to take all your liberty. Iraq? Afghanistan? Just the start of it. The number of soldiers who can die to protect US interests in the middle east is unlimited. They're not there to bring stability, they're there to set up permanent bases. Will another "terrorist attack" be visited on the innocent to ease the way into another 'necessary' invasion of Iran?
PNAC calls for "Full spectrum dominance" of global oil and water resources, and permanent military bases in the middle east. All of which is already happening. Wake up America! Denial is not a defence!
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46 - Patriot
It's so obvious that the main author of this blog is CIA/FBI. There are numerous Government/Academic/Scholors/Physicists/Scientists/Patriots who know 9/11 was an inside job.
Please answer these questions without smartass childish responses or just saying "oh,you believe in little green men". This is a known propaganda technique to avoid rational discussion.
1. Why did Bush block 2 investigations?
2. Why didn't WTC7 appear in the 9/11 commission report?
3. Why did NORAD stand down AND not follow regulations?
4. Why didn't the mainstream press inform us that the pentagon was running war games on the morning of 9/11. One of these games was simulating planes used as weapons into buildings. The Vice President was in charge of war games.
Do the homework, just look it up if you don't believe it.
47 - alessandro nicolo
"Rosie and Joy Behar are the intellectuals of this show..."
Ugh. Now we have proof that intellectualism is truly dead.
"Rosie has made the show more interesting and informative..."
Ugh again. O'Donnell and informative in the same sentence is an oxymoron.
Nancy, "It's only recently been revealed that Roosevelt AND Churchill 'allowed' Pearl Harbor to happen, in order to bring the US into WWII." That's a specious and long assumed position that most reputable historians stand clear from. There were plenty of ways to enter the war.
48 - Joe Mellon
Be a 9/11 "questioner" first, not a "truther":
Why did NORAD et al stand down? Incompetence? If so, why wasn't there a massive investigation, public outcry and head-rolling?
How could the towers fall at free fall speed into their own footpoint - path of MOST resistance - without additional caustive forces (bombs, thermite, etc)? Without these forces in the equation, Newton's three laws are broken.(simple Physics 101 stuff - look it up)
Where is all that footage from the dozens of survelence cameras of a 757 crashing into the Pentagon (the most secure building in the world)? Talk about great TV!! I we only get 5 frames. Hmmmmmmm
...and hundreds more.
Once you realize that these questions have no answers in today's collective conscience, then you graduate from a 9/11 "questioner" into a 9/11 truth seeker.
Google "9/11 Truth"
Joe Mellon
49 - Alec
Patriot - re: Please answer these questions without smartass childish responses or just saying "oh,you believe in little green men". This is a known propaganda technique to avoid rational discussion.
As noted before, every supposed question you pose has been answered. One can easily find the information online in summary or expanded form in a number of places, including the comprehensive Skeptics magazine article and a site specifically devoted to 911 myths.
Clearly, a conspiracy theory becomes wacky when its proponents consistently ignore the fact that their questions have been answered and simply repeat the questions again and again. Conspiracy theorists are stuck in their psychological need to create an easily repeatable scary story in which they have been betrayed by government or society. Conspiracy theories are fairy tales for frightened adults.
50 - Lou
"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.” Albert Einstein
With the way our government works and what they tell us (and don't tell us), I hope we never stop questioning.
51 - STM
Fu.k, with people believing 9/11 was an "inside job", no wonder America is going down the chute with bells on. To the one who thinks it implausible that 19 idiots with box cutters could do what they did, the reason they no longer can is because they actually did.
I agree it was implausible, but that's probably the reason it happened. Normal people don't think of things like flying jets full of passengers into big buildings full of people. Radical Islamic fundamentalists do, though. They thought it was hilarious that they could do what they did as easily as they did. Wake up and smell the jet fuel.
52 - marvin
exactly what evidence are you guys talking about? the passport the miraculously flew out of one of the planes and landed on the streets of Manhattan. Or are you referring to the bin laden "confession" tape with someone who looks nothing like bin laden? Just wondering what proof there actually is backing up the official story.
53 - Twooferkiller
For all of you twoofers out there, the link at the bottom of this blog really does completely destroy your arguments. It destroys it so bad, there aren't even scraps to pick up afterwards. If you really want to face some constructive criticism, read that extremely long article. That is, if you're man enougth. And you wonder why no one takes you seriously. Sure, you may have a few arguments left to fight with after reading the article, but not enougth to mean anything.
54 - Twooferkiller
#43 -- May 24, 2007 @ 04:43AM -- Alec
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Actually, this guy posted the link. Read it and weep, twoofers! You know what? I'll post it here: Read the whole thing and try to stay true to your beliefs.