Michael Moore's latest is both incoherent and 100% necessary
You gotta love Michael Moore, America's Hardest Working Populist. "Bowling for Columbine" is as lovable. And just as sloppy.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Bowling for Columbine: Stunt Righteousness - Comments Page 2
Article comments
26 - bob
Everyone who supports Moore is blind!!! Everything about this movie is FALSE!!! nothing in it is true. why not try doing a little research of your own and find out the facts behind the movie instead of just believing it. "h it's a movie, it must be true, hollywood is so smart" WRONG!!!
27 - Quentin Beck
Dutch! Didn't the Dutch invade South Africa and impose aparthied on the majority of the people there? Hmm. Sounds peaceful to me.
28 - Sigh
1). It is possible to love America without loving its leadership. Republicans hated Clinton for eight years and no one called them anti-American. Now that people on the left are disparaging Bush and company, they’re called anti-American. That’s not fair.
2). It took the United States years to get involved in both world wars because isolationists wanted nothing to do with Europe. The only reason the US got involved in both wars was because self-interest was involved. This notion of the US “riding to the rescue of Europe” is bunk. So is the idea that Europe has a right to feel morally superior to the US. Europe’s history (including that of Holland) is drenched in blood. Let’s not forget Indonesia, "dames en heren."
3). Whatever else, Moore’s film is provoking discussion. In a free society, that is a good thing.
29 - BB
Moore (like many satirical humorists) uses serious topics for material. His shows are meant for entertainment purposes and should be left at that. Lighten up folks. I know he's laughing (all the way to the bank).
30 - Mariko
I just HAVE to respond to Cannie. That's right. Lump EVERY nation across the seas together. They hate America, everyone of them, and deserve to die because we saved their asses. Right? Your logic is immature and narrow, but your critize the movie's message? Does this mean that everyone in Europe gets to group all the America's together? Let's throw Cuba in as long as you brought it up. "All those Americans killed the Mayans and are cutting down the rainforest!" Doesn't feeel so relivent now, does it? Learn your history and geography, take the faded flag sticker off your bumper and grow up.
31 - ian
EVERYONE IS GETTING OFF THE TOPIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bowling for columbine is not about abortion, it is not about capital punishment, it is not about Europe, it is not about Bush and Quale. Bowling for Columbine is very simply a movie that was made with the express purpose of sending a message! It is propoganda I admit, BUT even though he uses decidedly BIASED facts and examples. NONE OF HIS EXAMPLES ARE UNTRUE!!!!!!!
I personally think Moore is a pansy who throws attrocities in peoples faces. K-Mart is not at fault, Lockheed is not at fault, the government is not at fault. BUT Moore's movie is incredibly accurate in all of its messages and points. Yes he is biased, but who is'nt? HIS MESSAGE IS THAT AMERICA IS A COUNTRY OF FEAR, we are terrified of our own shadow, and he is dead on accurate!!!!!!!! You all need to stop throwing "oooo, but its not technically a documentary, so he shouldn't have gotten an award" WHO CARES?????? What we should be talking about is whether he makes sense, and he certainly does.
and on a personal note: Gregling you are an idiot the state exists for one sole purpose. To ensure the survival of the state. War is a legitimate extension of diplomacy, and in my opinion fuck iraq, iran, and the whole middle east. If they attack us why should we say, " Oh, please sir, dont do that again, it was mean" We need to have a policy similar to Israels. "If you attack us thats your right, go ahead, but be prepared to pay the price. We will revisit on you 100fold what was done to us." Get a clue gregling, if someone hits you with a lead pipe, do you say "stop, that hurts"? or do you strike back before you are crushed. My point exactly. pussy.
32 - Eric Olsen
Good points Ian, although I don't think - even after 9/11 - the country is really awash in fear.
But as to your opening: life is off-topic.
33 - brown_boognish
Critics of Moore seem to contend that because there are some grey areas regarding a few of his facts we should therefore dismiss everything presented in the film. A great deal of the facts in Bowling for Columbine are painfully true.
34 - Geoff
While Michael Moore never outright lies in his documentary, his manipulation of the facts is inexcusable. As the author of the oft-linked "Truth About Bowling" page states, "Moore does not inform his readers: he plays them like a violin." This is not a documentary. It is a political piece that I would liken to a smear ad around election time; it twists facts, "creatively" edits speeches and quotes, and does everything it can to lead the blind public to its intended conclusion. Before someone attempts to flame me on here, let me make this clear: My issue is not with Moore's beliefs or political views. My issue is with how he expresses them. Unfortunately, this issue is far more widespread than most people realize. From Paul Revere's engraving of the "Boston Massacre" (a single incident of scared British soldiers firing into an angry mob) to the negative campaign ads we'll see until November, misleading media always has and always will be part of American politics. Go read the Truth About Bowling page... but after you're done, take a few minutes and think about how this has been going on for hundreds of years, in every form of media, and on every subject you've ever learned anything about. Scary, isn't it?
35 - Sundiii
Since employees are slaves, I'd say Michael Moore does a good job of showing it. He just doesn't ever SAY it because he doesn't really THINK we're all still slaves for wages.
36 - Eric Olsen
isn't "slave for wages" an oxymoron?
37 - Chris Beck
Moore clearly distorts the truth in an attempt to support an extremist position. This is the most dangerous type of individual there is. The fact is that every nation has gun problems and furthermore America's gun laws are rooted in the constitution. Every man shall have the right to bear arms. This is not an outdated statement or an oversight by the initial writers, this is a timeless inheritance of all men for all times. No one should be persecuted for bearing weapons, and no amount of slander, distortion, and fallacy by some nut job popular writer should ever challenge the virtue of the Constitution. Moore's opinion is laughably insignificant and the fact that the media and the left are so consumed with his mantra really says something about America. I don’t care if he confronts an old man with Alzheimer’s and a conscience on his doorstep and asks him inane questions. There is even the possibility being raised that part of that scene was faked. That man is clearly not a racist and Moore has slandered him so thoroughly that it’s disgusting. He willingly distorts that facts and makes up whatever he can think of to support his shaky case. He has clearly and tragically misled every one of you. Moore denounces the media for being hysterical and untruthful, but he embodies the worst of what he criticizes in his willful distortion of the truth and careful devious lies to the American public. American culture today is quick to reject its elected officials and authority figures, and while this position may have some advantages, certainly one of the greatest disadvantages is the susceptibility of society to attacks and lies at the hands of conmen and liars such as Moore.
38 - Ms. Tek
"The fact is that every nation has gun problems... "
Please site your source for that fact.
39 - Dwaine AKA Scooter AKA D.J.
Great blog, Dave. I never thought of the documentary that way.
40 - HJ
Europe has no right to look down its collective nose at the US..
and they are rather like the kids you went to highschool with that are jealous of so and so because so and so has the cutest boyfriend or girlfriend, and all they can do is whine about it.
except, in this case, Europe will never grow up to be successful or handsome, or realize that they still have quiet a bit to learn.
oh well...
41 - Vasiliy
I went to see BfC and I went into it with an open mind. After all, documentaries are supposed to reveal the truth. The film was easily digested, yet quite boring. People get killed by guns every day. They also get killed in traffic accidents, and drownings. Are we to examine our aqua-recreation habits and conjure the evil corporate hand of Yamaha and Sea-doo simply to scare people? I was prepared to accept the facts in the movie, but if it's true that many of the facts were twisted or are plainly false, then how can the movie be a documentary? In the 1920s Eisenstein made a number of 'documentaries' like this for the Soviets. I've seen them, and was amazed at the simplicity, and rather unbelievable nature of the films. In another 80 years, will our great-grandchildren look at Bowling and have a good chuckle, wondering how we could be so gullible?
This is off track, but in light of some of the previous posts, I thought it to be appropriate. I love America. I love Europe. (These facts will probably confuse half of you.) It's funny. We in the developed countries on earth will squabble over the reletively benign issue of guns, or welfare, and yet completely ignore the atrocities in the surrounding world. I saw millions protest the removal of Saddam, a man who executed over 300,000 people, but where are the demonstrations condemning the genocide in Rwanda? Or Sudan? Why is Bush evil for getting rid of a mass-murderer? The answer I hear to that last question is that 'he lied about the WMD,' or something along that line. But the same people who call Bush evil for this are the same people who laud Moore for his blatant disregard for the truth as well. Consistency, my fellow man, consistency.
42 - Eric Olsen
very important points Vasilly, thanks! Balance is one of the glaring things missing from most of our political debate
43 - QC
Can we STOP posting this lie by Michael Moore! HeEston did NOT hold an NRA rally "just WEEKS" after the Flint shooting. The footage shown was EIGHT MONTHS LATER, and it was an ELECTION CAMPAIGN for Bush.
Can we pleaes leran to think for ourselves rather than follow Moore like blind little sheep?
44 - Evilwhiteguy
QC is right, and as Paul and Jon pointed out above, after Columbine, the NRA had their annual meeting planned in Denver years in advance. The NRA is a NY-based organization, and NY state law mandates an annual meeting. As the meeting was scheduled years in advance, the only option was to change the venue. According to NY state law, if a meeting venue change is to take place, a 10 day notice has to be given to all members in writing. Since Columbine only happened 11 days before the NRA meeting was to be held, there was no way on earth the millions of NRA members could have been notified in time. In order to comply with NY state law, the meeting was held as planned, and anything not mandated by NY state law was cancelled. No vendor booths, etc.
All it takes to refute nearly anything Michael Moore says is a few Google searches. In fact, don't believe what I've just said, do the research yourselves. The information is not that hard to find.
What I'm waiting to see, is that since F9/11 was aired on a Cuban TV station a few weeks ago, if the Academy will forgo their own rules, which stipulate that in order for a documenatary to be elligible for an Oscar, that it cannot be shown on TV in any country in the world for nine months after its initial theatrical release. Being on Cuban TV invalidates F9/11 for an Oscar. I guess we'll see if the Academy's rules stick, or if they're ignored for Michael Moore's sake. If they are, that speaks volumes.
45 - Eric Olsen
I finally watched BFC recently, and in addition to the factual issues, which have been well documented and I had decided in advance I would try to not let cloud my view of it as a movie, it was way too long, boring as hell, and accomplished one thing for me only: guns are dangerous. I was already aware of that.
46 - Purple Tigress
I watched Bowling for Columbine just before it came out. For some people living in the urban centers of California, gun ownership is a hard topic for them to comprehend.
Gun ownership in semi-rural and rural areas is a matter of protection. But having been at a firing range to learn how to shoot, I have seen two very bad examples of urban gun ownership: a guy shooting a gun too powerful for him to control and two women afraid of the small 22 they owned. Neither party was doing a good job at hitting the target (blank range).
From the perspective of an urban dweller in a liberal-voting state, I think Bowling for Columbine showed what middle America was like in comparison.
But I would like to point out that the appearance of Charlton Heston in Bowling for Columbine was probably the weakest part of this documentary. Although Heston has not hesitated to write or speak out (he has had a few letters to the editor published in the Los Angeles Times), he had just announced in August of 2002 that he was suffering from Alzheimer's disease.
Bowling for Columbine came out in October of 2002.
At least in Los Angeles, it made Michael Moore seem like little more than a bully, but I guess that's the caveat for people who specialize in the ambush interview style.
Heston made his announcement via video tape ending it with a line spoken by Prospero from "The Tempest:"
"We are such stuff
As dreams are made on, and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep."
Of course, it was too late for Moore to cut out the parts with Heston, but can he really sleep so well knowing how he further victimized a man suffering from a tragic disease?
47 - Eric Olsen
exactly right PT, thanks, but even giving him a pass on that, it was still lame
48 - Elizabeth
I can understand what all of you are saying, but i have to ask you a question. He may have mislead his audience with his editing techniques. But isnt there a greater issue in his movie that needs to be addressed then just where he edited things out and not? He is right in some senses. Why is the US so violent? What is so different about the US that so many people die a year?
Yes he was wrong to make Heston out to look like racist lunitic. But that wasnt what he was trying to get across. He was trying to point out that there is something wrong with this country when a six year old shoots another six year old in school. And there is something wrong in the US when nail clippers are considered a weapon. I guess if Sept 11 taught me anything, its that you can take yourself so seriously. The US thinks that it is invincable. And frankly your not. What did you think would happen when you provide a known terrorist with millions of dollars? That one day he would come after you? Frankly he got away with it.
And really how sad is it, that michael moore is trying to open us residents eyes, and grown men sit at their computers and argue about whether or not its relavent. Grow up, look around you. Something is wrong with the world today, and Im proud that someone had the guts to stand up and say that.
Maybe he should review his ethics though, because i agree editing out stuff is slimy.
Age 16, Social 30
49 - LightningHell
Wow...many flames here...
However I despise Moore's extremely unethical twist-other-people's-words and other editing techniques, I agree that there is violence to deal with. However, I do not believe it is of such an immediate concern that it would justify Moore's editing. (A bit of confusing wording there.)
And to think I'm in Hong Kong and 14 years old...
50 - Reinhart
Ultimately, here is the biggest point.
How can anybody take someone who has to distort data to the point where it can no longer be relied on to reflect the truth, and all just to make a point?
Technically, that is fabricating a lie to bolster a point that, because of it being backed by a lie, does nothing to make a valid point at all.
But, it does one thing incredibly well: it sways those who are weak of mind just as well as conservative claptrap.
Grow a brain, read up on the raw data yourselves, and make your own conclusions; don't allow some other extremist bozo, left or right, make the conclusion for you.
The biggest traitors of the country are democrats AND republicans. BE AN INDEPENDENT. - Reinhart
51 - Floyd
I just want to say that it is too bad that Mr. Wienberger and Karl and several other commentators didn't come from David Hardy's website as I did. They would have learned that Mr.Moore is each one liar extrodinare and that Mr. Heston is not now nor never has been a racist. They would have also learned that the NRA was NOT following tragic incidents around- quite to the contrary.
But then socialists and left wing communist liberals are always accusing others of what they do all of time. Every tragic incident this country from Columbine to Virgina Tech has alway been behived over with Liberal left wing anti-gun whachos moving in on the greif stricken and and exploiting them- sometimes almost viciously.