I know I'm taking my life in my own hands with the title of this post, but if you'll hang in there with me, you'll see where I'm coming from. A few months ago I posted my top 10 actors living today list. Like any list it was totally subjective. However, I left Pacino and DeNiro off the list and several people have commented that it was a mistake to do so. Just today someone left this in the comments section:
Pathetic!! where's Pacino and Da Niro?? Watch these films then re-do the list: Scarface (watch it about 10 times), Godfather parts 1 and 11 (about 8 times each), Carlito's Way (about 4 times should do), Dog Day Afternoon (you'll want to watch it again and again, Taxi Driver, Casino, The Deer Hunter. Respects for including Jack Nicholson, totally agree there. But come on - Robbin Williams??? If you don't enjoy my listed movies you need to get your priorities right man!!…
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— go to most recent comments26 - LORD BYRON
Basically there are 2 types of actors: the iconic actor (always seems to be the same guy) and the dynamic actor (flexible). One or the other doesnt make you greater
Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro are NOT The best actors of all time but are good and entertaining to watch. They lack the diversity of say a Robin Williams, but at least they have forged a strong seminal type character in our minds.
Whether it be Tony Montana or Michael Corlionne or the blind guy that goes WHOOOOA you still love the way Pacino comes across in the film - he is the undeniably central focus. Deniro makes subtle character changes i.e. in his tough guy persona in Meet the Fokkers contrasted with his determined and righteously filled bravado in the Godfather are subetly different characters- but essentially tough minded. They are good iconic type actors of our age but not like the best of all times i.e. Cary Grant, Marlon Brando, Jack Lemmon, James Laughton, Clark Gable, Peter Lorre, Peter Sellers (choose your own) or even modern dyanmic acting contemporaries like Spacey, Williams, Pitt et al.
but they still fun to watch !!
27 - Eric Berlin
I think both Pacino and DeNiro have outstanding bodies of work but have been in steady decline over the last decade or so. This may be in part due to the difficulty of aging actors to find meaty roles (see: Harrison Ford).
I think you really have to hand it to actors like Clint Eastwood and Jack Nicholson for continually defying convention and re-inventing themselves. About Schmidt was an astounding transformation for Nicholson, and Eastwood seems, as an actor and director, to get steadily better and more refined with age.
Pacino and DeNiro haven't made it there yet: they're trying to be Leading Men and thus are retreading old territory. That being said, they still pulled off great films in the 90s: Goodfellas, Carlito's Way.
Ronin? A passable chase film at best.
28 - Salty Minga
I find it hilarious that the original poster uses the most overrated actor of all time, Robin Williams, as his example of somebody that plays diverse roles. His acting range has not changed one iota since he was on Mork and Mindy. You could splice scenes of that show into anyone of his movies and nobody would be able to tell the difference.
29 - I Disagree
This is interesting, while Pacino may overract sometimes, he is undoubtley one of the 3 best actors of all time imo. Godfather I,II, Dog Day Afternoon, Carlito's Way, Scarface, Devil's Advocate and Donnie Brasco are all brillantly acted. The believeabilty factor is the most important component of acting, no versatility. Ditto Dinero. Lefty Buggerio is one of the best acted characters I've ever seen in movies, ditto John Milton and Michael Corleone.
30 - finktypething
Pacino and De Niro are undeniably great movie actors, but were fortunate to be lead actors in the seventies/early-eighties, when Hollywood was at its most intelligent, provocative, and actor-friendly. Then, quality movies like 'Deerhunter', Godfather', 'Raging Bull', ,'One Flew Over' and 'Apocalyspse Now' were also the mainstream. Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Brando, Nicholson, Beatty and others also flourished in that era, and became equally great and iconic.
Among today's great leading actor's, Russell Crowe is probably alone amongst major leads choosing mostly projects of the very highest quality (from an acting POV). Tom Hanks is great too, but sometimes suffers from appearing in pap like 'Green Mile' and 'Polar Express'.
Sean Penn is a wonderful movie actor. Watch 'Carlito's Way' and see how he acts Pacino off the screen every scene they're together. His character is the most irredeemable jerk iimaginable n that film. Then watch him in 'Sweet and Lowdown' for a perfromance of great tenderness and pathos. As a more 'muscular' kind of leading man, George Clooney has a commanding screen presence cut with some of the best delivery of deadpan humour in contemporary cinema. But in short, the quality of mainstream films offering any kind of role for lead actors, has gotten so limited that very limited pretty boys like Johnny Depp and Brad Pitt, can be proclaimed great actors, and a slapstick guy like Jim Carrey will most likely win a best actor oscar in the next five years.
There was once great hope for Ed Norton and John Cusack, but as they are essentially the same guy, and their schtick has lost its originality, that hope has now diminished.
As the mainstream has dumbed down, the margins of the industry now harbour the most wonderful jewel-like talents - guys like John Turturro, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, John C. Riley, William H. Macey and so on. As none of them are conventionally handsome guys, and in some cases quite ugly, they are more typically character actors, though they sometimes take leads.
So, what is my point? Simply that as big-budget Hollywood has 'dumbed down' - post 'Heaven's Gate' - the amount of excellent showcase projects for quality lead actors has diminished. Pacino, De Niro were at their peak in a golden age of actorly Hollywood, that has now passed, just as guys like Schwarzenneger and Stallone found their zenith in the testosterone-fuelled action movies of the eighties. It is no wonder then that De Niro and Pacino should be so iconic, as they were at the top of their games, just when the art form as actors-medium was at the top of its.
31 - Eric Berlin
Interesting thoughts Finkty, and I agree to an extent. But I do think that Depp and Cusack are clearly in the "excellent" actor category. Both take on quirky, risky, meaningful roles (Chocolat, Max) as well as well-chosen commercial films (Pirates of the Caribbean, High Fidelity).
In any event, both have been in some of my favorite movies over the last 15 years.
32 - mark
Could you think of any other actor to play the lead role in Awakenings Come on. Seriously. If anyone doubts whether De Niro is the 'greatest' then check out the Russian Roulette scene in 'The Deer Hunter' Mind blowing
Is 'meet the parents the funniest film of the last ten years' I think so Finally, Raging Bull was the greatest lead performance in the history of cinema. Would anyone agree
33 - Richard Porter
You know Mark, I posted something a while back on DeNiro and to be truthful, you have to look at his careerin two parts.
You have one of the most gifted actors ever from Mean Streets to Goodfellas (and maybe, separately, Cape Fear). This includes (to name a few): Deer Hunter, The King of Comedy, Taxi Driver, Mean Streets.
Soon after Goodfellas to the present, you have an actor (who does not need the money), who is selling his soul left and right to make really bad movies.
Please no more Meet the Fockers sequels and absolutely no more "in-jokes" to his earlier serious mob roles.
And commercials? Please stop!
34 - Eric Berlin
I think the drop off did occur just after Goodfellas (which is just about my favorite movie, period, by the way).
De Niro directed A Bronx Tale in 1993. I wonder if there's any possibility that he started lowering his standards for taking parts (versus raking in money) around that time to pull together cash to direct prestige projects. I'm sure other people have theorized on this much more than I.
By the way: Meet the Parents is very, very far from the best comedy of the last 10 years.
35 - Richard Porter
I do like Meet the Fockers as well, for a comedy. I just do not think it can be ranked with his other "best" films. He should get back to the intense, ORIGINAL roles that made his movies so provoking.
Sean Penn has picked up the gauntlet so to speak with these type of roles.
36 - Eric Berlin
Richard -- I had just the same thought when I saw Scarface for the first time (amazingly, I had somehow missed it) a few weeks ago. I was so surprised by how "inside" his role Pacino was as compared to his work over the last 15 or so years. I still like to see anything he's in, but now I can see how the accusations of overplaying or playing the same character have some basis.
37 - DJRadiohead
I do not think Pacino and DeNiro forgot how to act at some point in their career. I think they just found it more and more difficult to find interesting scripts and roles. Look at the movies rolled out each year. These are not the only two (great) actors who churn out bad movies.
Chazz Palmientari did not know how "The Usual Suspects" ended until he saw it months after he shot his scenes. Films undergo significant changes from the time a script is written to the time it hits the screen.
38 - Eric Berlin
I'm not sure what you're trying to say regarding Palmientari. Most films are shot out of order, and it's difficult to tell if any are going to be good until the very late stages of post-production.
I think you can make a case for a decline in the careers of De Niro and Pacino based upon their work over the last 15 years. Part of it may have to do with quality scripts, but that's also true for any actor. Part of it may have to do with the difficulty to find roles for late middle age and older, and there may be more argument to be made there.
By the way, I'm thinking at this moment that Carlito's Way may have been the point after which Pacino started to decline. As someone else pointed out, Penn was great in the movie, but so was Pacino. I love that movie -- what a great rush and heartbreak of a story.
39 - Richard Porter
Eric
That was indeed the wall for him, it was downhill (whatever speed you prefer) from there.
There are great movies turned out, but it just so happens they are not in them. Here is a few over the years: Mystic River, Magnolia, Memento, The Cooler (really good), 21 grams.
I am sure somewhere DeNiro felt it wasn;t a good idea to do Bullwinkle, Jackie Brown (really bad and I love Tarantino),Wag the Dog, Godsend and Flawless (phew). No clue that they might be bad?
40 - Eric Berlin
I actually thought that Jackie Brown was a very interesting, very good but definitely not great film. And De Niro was good in it because he got to play a menacing, burned out side character. The build up to his violent, spontaneous murder of Bridget Fonda (who was just about begging to be shot at that point) was a jarring moment that let the rest of the story unfold.
But I honestly don't understand people who are in love with movies like Ronin or Meet the Parents. Passable films for the plane at best.
41 - Richard Porter
Really??? Maybe I will give it another look. DeNiro reminded me with his laid back, emotionless attitude of the DeNiro you see during TV interviews; rather stoic and not really giving during the interviews and the host usually has to pull teeth to get a few words out of him.
42 - Richard Porter
Eric
And one more thing: compare/match-up the career highs and lows of DeNiro with Director Martin Scorsese. You may see a trend.
But this does not mean I wish to see a Taxi Driver 2, which I read somewhere.
43 - Eric Berlin
He has a stoic creepy quality in Jackie Brown that makes him interesting to watch. That he's in a relatively small number of scenes is a plus for him in this case.
44 - DrPat
Oh, Richard - how could you not love Flawless? DeNiro took his tough-guy iconic role to a whole new dimension in this film. Hoffman was wonderful as DeNiro's drag-queen singing tutor, but Bobbie shone as the crippled strong man, forced to re-evaluate his standards.
This movie made me reconsider my own opinion of DeNiro as (mostly) a one-note actor.
45 - Richard Porter
??? Well DrPat, I am glad you can appreciate Flawless, but I recommend that you go rent The King of Comedy and then come back and tell me if you feel the same way.
46 - godoggo
And another thing. They're too short.
47 - Eric Berlin
So is Cruise and Dustin Hoffman. Most of the "big" stars, actually.
48 - godoggo
Oh, man, don't even get me started on Cruise.
49 - Aditya Singh
The guy is certainly outta his mind.Pacino
and De Niro are the best actors the world has ever seen.Robbie Williams is a good actor but Pacino & De Niro are GOD!
50 - pacino_lover
I agree! This guy is totally insane!!! You shouldn't be allowed to be a critic if you think Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro are overrated! And if you thought Devil's Advocate was a bad movie then you are totally out of your fucking mind! And as far as Gigli goes, Al Pacino only made a frickin cameo appearance in that movie! It's not his fault it sucked...blame Benifer for that! If anything he made it a little less painful to watch for the ten minutes he was on screen! But as far as Pacino and DeNiro's acting goes, they have both given such incredible performances over the years that anyone should be able to overlook a few bad ones here and there. No actor/actress has a perfect filmography.
51 - DrPat
pacino_lover: take a breath! Now another...
The reviewer didn't say these two weren't good actors. He just said he felt others were better. He gave lots of reasons. If you disagree with those reasons, you're welcome to say WHY - but just calling the writer insane because he disagrees with you is rude and childish.
MY argument with John's choice would have more to do with DeNiro's role in Flawless or Pacino's in S1m0ne.
52 - Tina
You miserable little shit!! How dare you insult Denero and Pacino they are the best actors ever, everyone knows that; other than you asshole!! Oh and to answer your question for this piece of shit website, no, I do not think that Al Pacino and Robert Denero are overrated actors but I do think that you are a shithead!!! Don't ever talk about them again, they can kick your ass you little faget!!*
53 - Anthony Guerino
What makes them great is their believAIBLTY. Watch those bad ones agin. Maybe the movies are bad, but they are int he roesl, they are the characdters, they bring themeselves to the characters and circ umstances, in different ways, but they bring themselves. And anyone who says they are the same character in evey movie is overlooking the early stuff. Godfather- is that hootin and hollerin' pacino? no, one of the most subltle performances in film histroy- dog day afternoon- totally different, serpcio? come on, watch serpico and tell me he's the same in every movie. Watch footage of the real serpico, then look at the pacino version, then tell me he's not a good character actor.. What about raging bull?
54 - RTM
WAT U CHATTIN SON, SCARFACE,GODFARTHER 1 2 N PART 3 CASINO GOODFELLAS, TAXI DRIVER DESE ARE WAT MADE THAT FILM CATOGORY WAT IT IS 2DAY, WIV OUT THEM UD BE SAT WATCHIN TH LIKES OF MRS DOUBTFIRE ALL DAY (SUACIDE NOTE NEEDED) R U FUKIN SERIOUS ROBBIN WILLIAMS TH GUYS LIKE A HUMAN CARTOON N DATS NOT A GOOD THING, CAN YOU AMAGIN WILLIAMS ON TH MONTANA THROWN TAKIN BULLETS...GET REAL BOY U DONT NO WAT U TALKIN BOWT....P.P PLZ DONT COMMENT ON TH SPELLIN I REALY CUD NOT BE BOVAD ABOUT MY VOCAB TALKIN 2 Y
55 - jim
I'm sorry but a lot of you treat these actors like gods because theyve got O at the end of their name & overact to an absurd degree. Their are and where many far superior actors to Pacino & co but you have become slaves to conventional wisdom and can't think for yourselves. Example, Robert mitchum was menacing in cape fear, deniro was like a cartoon character with a foul mouth in the abysmal remake. They are the same kind of nasty little characters in every film, maybe this reflects on American society.I confess to being english and maybe I dont get your national institutions. We have an actor called David suchett who could beat the socks of all the afforementioned. His versatility is superb, he plays poirot & for example the villain in executive decission with = aplomb
56 - Jacobi
Kudos to you on this great analysis. I couldn't have said better myself ..
57 - Tsvetomir Neshkovic
Both men are over 60 now, dont expect dem to act like they were 30-40, the thing is Pacino and De Niro can do one thing, but nobody else can do it like them exepct for Joe Pesci, they are cold blooded mafia actors. They should be on the TOP 10 list
58 - eleanor
you're absolutely right although i LOVED deniro in taxi driver (not much else), LOVED pacino in frankie and johnny (yeah!! he's great!!), and brando in films he actually tried in because he was a genius hands down. sean penn was actually good in dead man walking and fast times and that's about it. everything else he's a hammy over the top joke. it's also established that meryl streep (at least among theater actors) that she's a vain caricaturist actress who has to take over the screen and plays caricatures, NOT characters. but movie audiences are gullible and think that that is acting--being almost cartoonish. it isn't. the great character actors like will patton, edward hermann, john lithgow, jeff daniels, paul muni, brando...etc..etc...you probably cannot place their face BECAUSE they are great character actors and their real self never comes through and you don't remember them because they look completely different in each character.
59 - DeeDee
Deniro has to work on those low quality movies because he needs the money to keep the Tribeca Film Festival afloat.
Also, I imagine it's pretty difficult to turn down several million for a few weeks of work.
He just moved into a new apartment at The Langham on the Upper Westside, and he has several people who depend on him financially (including his children,wife and ex-wife).
I do think he should look at higher caliber scripts, and dig a little deeper like he used to.
I have a completed script about an aging movie star that is so funny. Not Meet the Parents funny, but really hilariously funny.
60 - Dean Tanyi
I respectfully disagree that both Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro are overrated actors. Based on their past performances, in my view, they are well within the top 5 actors in the past 50 years. I agree that they both have not done anything that can be considered as stimulating or acadamy award winning, but one has to recognize they have been working their craft for well over 30 years -one may ask his or herself, "How am I going to perform after doing the same thing for for over 30 years! Pacino's performance as Tony Montana in "Scarface", simply brilliant -the academy voted against him simply because of the language in the movie. DeNiro's role,as the hostile convict in Cape Fear -simply fantastic, but to this day has not been recognized for his performance in that movie. Deaner's top ten actors: Pacino, DeNiro, Spacey, Norton, Dean, Eastwood, McQueen, Newman, Hackman, Keitel.
Sorry folks, Marlon Brando good actor, but way overrated in my view.
61 - Rick N.
I totally agree with your view that they are overrated. I've thought the same for many, many years. YES, they are good, just overrated. Deal with it people. And by the way Rolden, re-read this sentence carefully, you'll see your mistake.
"Most of the actors on the Top-10 list are still relatively young and new to the business, having acted in about 25 percent the number of films as the actors listed above."
See your error? Chris never said he was an actor.
Nuff Said...
62 - Joe Boone
Christian Bale is an example of an underrated actor.
63 - Jimmy
I think the reason DeNero is making comedies is for two reasons: Looking for ways to act with his buddies and doing comedies for a giggle because he has done so many dramas. I do not believe he is doing comedies for the money. I mean he was in a terrible role in Rocky and Bullwinkle, but that was just for a laugh I think. He just wants people to see his lighter side i think 'cos people think he is oh so serious looking at his previous work.
De Nero is the greatest actor alive. Look at the scene in Goodfellas when he's in the bar with the glass of whisky in his hand when 'Sunshine of Your Love' by Cream Kicks in.
The bit when you know he's thinking about killing the old fat guy with the beard. You know this and there is no reference to killing the guy untill after the scene. He does this without uttering a word or making a violent reference. That my friend is acting at it's very best and while Robin Williams is very versatile and can do many characters with all the bells and whistles, I doubt that he can pull off acting of that calibre. The closest he got to that kind of mechanics of acting was in Good Will Hunting when he was going 'It's not your fault'. That said Robin Williams is one of the best actors out there but he has a bit to go to take the DeNero crown. As for Pacino, he's just Pacino aint he, loves his shouty stuff, if you want shouty stuff call him. And i disagree that Apocolypse Now is one of the best films ever made. It goes on...and on... and on... "I kept thinking about this guy and i can't imagine him from the listening to him here" (you know what I mean), constantly talking and talking about the Marlon Brando character. War is hell etc. Yes we know. I think it's a good film but it's well overrated.
64 - Jimmy
Serpico was a piece of shit movie about "A STORY THAT HAD TO BE TOLD". Just a collection of scenes of Pacino going "I'm not takin' the money i don't care what they say...I'm not takin' the money" put together in different ways with not much else happening. THE FILM IS CRAP. I watched it expecting to be blown away and i couldn't wait for it to end.
65 - Bob
It seems to me that if there is no swearing in a roll, Pacino, De Niro, or Nickleson will not take the part.
66 - Johnny Harden
I find that most people who think DeNiro/Pacino are the greatest actors of our time, are people who are taking acting classes and think it's the thing to say. Bottom line, these guys have been in great films, but are they great??? Marginal at best. If any of us could get paid that kinda money playing ourselves, the line would go 'round the world.
And what strikes me as more unbelievable, WHO REALLY CARES? I doubt that any of these posters know these guys personally, and really, what's the difference. As for me, I find it both pathetic as well as entertaining, that so many people offer such passion that has nothing to do with their lives.
67 - Grace
Outta your mind!
Pacino and De Niro some of the greatest actor who ever lived. Robin Williams is a great actor very versatile so is Johnny depp.
These are all amazing actors.
I rate Pacino any day of the week. Overated...NO way!
68 - Miss X
kinda agree with you johnny H! stupid, topic why did I answer...haha!
69 - Joshua Wiebe
al pacino and deniro do not play the same characters in every film, that's a really shallow conclusion. deniro in taxi driver is a completely different character than deniro in deer hunter. or deniro in goodfellas as opposed to in cape fear. deniro in heat as opposed to in stardust. granted stardust wasnt good, but he wasnt the same guy he always is. it's a completely bogus charge, the man has plenty of versatility. same with pacino, although both have been doing similar roles for the last ten or fifteen years, when they're not doing godawful comedies.
70 - Jerry Graham
I don't see a name I admire as an actors actor is:
Jon Voight. I've seen him play different roles & had to take a couple extra shots to see if it was really Jon Voight. He can change his voice, looks and dialect better than any actor I've seen mentioned above. Another great acytor:
Eddie Murphy. Check out some of the roles he's played...GREAT!
71 - Joe
Deniro and pacino that seems to be the question, first of all with the exception of the godfather pacino is almost always over the top which can be fun to watch but deniro definitely has played a wider range of characters awakenings to goodfellas ring a bell? Part of how good your considered to be has everything to do with the director you work with as the film truly belongs to them you would be amazed how many garbage performances shine in after the editing room. Just think of all of deniros best work taxi, goodfellas Raging bull for the love of God all of his best work was with scorcesse all of it! Then again the opposite could be true a great actor can be in a shit film with a shit director and make something watchable about it think Brando in a most of his films from the sixties that was a Great Actor! Deniro or pacino could'nt even hold a candle or carry a garbage film and make it interesting but they are still considered to be the greatest tehespian ever.
72 - Brandy
One of my favorite DeNiro roles was in "The Last Tycoon." He portrays a film producer based upon Irving Thalberg. DeNiro's usual mannerisms and vitality are toned down to play the physically frail genius. It's quite interesting.
Pacino's a great actor because he can convey emotion and a sense of reality - he may have a very strong personality that comes through but to me, that's what also makes him a movie star. Not many can be both. I think he and DeNiro are both.
Pacino in "Scarecrow" is a bit different than usual, as well. I can't argue with your list though because as you said, they are your own subjective choices.
73 - Tim Thomas
Both De Niro and Pacino have sold out. De Niro WAS a great actor. Now he just takes paychecks.
Pacino nearly ruined 'The Godfather'. He is the worst actor ever. I cant understand why anyone thinks he is a good actor. I think in the last 10 years we have really seen what he is made of. That is....absolutely nothing.
Anyone who thinks Pacino was ever an actor is deluding themselves. De Niro was a great actor. He put in some spellbindiong performances. However he has ruined all that with that cr&p he has come up with the last 15 years.
74 - chris
Can't believe Dustin Hoffman isn't on your top 10 list. Also, pointing out how long it's been since you've seen a good performance/movie from an actor is cheap. Actors are always going to make more bad films than good ones.
I understand this article is a bit dated, so you probably couldn't have predicted this back then, but look at Robert Downey Jr. and Mickey Rourke. Talk about a comeback.
75 - Eric
You're all missing the point that he was trying to make. De Niro and Pacino are both great actors, and he wasn't denying that. The point is that neither of them are well-rounded actors. They're both one-sided.
It's like if there was a rock band that was really talented, but played every song with the same chord progression, beat, rhythm, tempo and vocal style. Yeah, they might sound great but eventually you get tired of hearing the same thing over and over again.