Let me start off by saying I don't watch American Idol. It rewards style over substance and is all that is bad about karaoke writ large. But I have sat through this season once or twice, so I feel I can speak to this just a bit.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Article comments
26 - Natalie Davis
Thanks for saying, in essence, my main point: "In truth, there are a lot of factors involved, but pigmentationism is surely one of them. The biggest one, however, IMO, is the lack of taste in general of the American public."
27 - Craig Lyndall
Sorry to mimic you Nat. I started out talking about the differences between the chosen songs and just kept going in response to Sandra.
28 - Glen Grayban
Hello, I just wanted to add my unemotional point of view to this blog. It seems we have 4 people that people have to vote on. 3 of these people have the same culture, genre of music and same peers. The other person appeals to another culture that does not like the music of the culture of the other 3 contestants. I do not see this a racest, but wanting to promote the music of a common culture. In reality, you may think a rap singer is better than a bad crooner, however, if your culture does not like rap, then a bad crooner is better to them. Again, this has nothing to do with race because a lot of "white" kids like rap, its just that when you divide the vote of those that like rap 3 ways and then have all the votes that like crooning or do not like rap only going to one person, then commen sense says that the person that does not have to split the vote will win. This is even the way it is in our government. If 2 people of the same culture are running in a district with a person of another culture, the one that does not have to split the vote almost always wins. Stop playing the race card. If you really need to play a card, play the culture card.
29 - boomcrashbaby
Glen, I'm not sure why you used rap in your analogy, nobody on the show does rap. Of course big band and rap are dramatically different musically, but the three you are referring to don't do rap, they do pop which is much closer to big band and will have more of a crossover/blending appeal. It sounds like you just compared crooning (John Stevens) to rap ('the three'). Careful or people might say you just threw rap out there because they are African American. They haven't rapped yet.
While I agree with your assessment of big band vs. rap, I don't think it's quite as distinctive here. I bet any one of those three could do a crossover into big band and be a great singer. I'd like to hear Fantasia do Ella Fitzgerald's shoop be do bop.
30 - Glen Grayban
I see your point and maybe I was not really clear. It is hard to transfer complicated thoughts in one paragraph. The point I am trying to get across is that they are targeting a culture that like a certain type of music. I have watched a few 'Idol' shows and have hardly agreed with the judges and who they liked. The singers that they like twist a syllable into several notes and have a lot of "attitude". I come from a culture that wants to hear the words and the only attitude is a positive one. Again, cultures span different races. I see people like Nat King Cole, Yo-Yo Ma, Luciano Pavarotti, Jimmy Buffett, Aretha Franklin, and Aaron Neville as one culture. I also see people like Tracy Marrow (Ice-T), Marshall Mathers (Eminem), Public Enemy, Beyonce, Janet Jackson, Christopher Dorsey (B.G.), Rogers Nelson (Prince) as another culture. There are more cultures such as hard-rock and acid-rock. I home I cleared up my first post. Thanks.
31 - Glen Grayban
Steve (boomcrashbaby), one other comment though. You made the statement "Careful or people might say you just threw rap out there because they are African American." By researching the internet for papers written about the origins of rap and even pop, it is clear that they both were started by the Africans that grew up in America in the last generation. Even as "Blues" and "Jazz" were started by the Africans a few generations before us. So any assumption on that line of thinking would not be a "racists" observation, but a fact that is based on the actual, though not at times popular, truth.
32 - Mac Diva
LOL! Ridiculous.
Janet Jackson epitomizes pop music. Not much in the vocal department, but salvagable by being good-looking and an excellent dancer. Benefits from the fine production values of songwriters and choreographers. Performs a good song often enough to be worthy of one's attention.
What Grayban is doing is making an essentially racist argument. Yes, he threw some African-American singers into to his 'acceptable' category to mask it. But, his illiterate use of culture can't. Americans come from the same over all culture. The African-American sub-culture is not monolithic, but to claim Aretha Frankin comes from his approved (white) 'culture' and Janet Jackson does not imakes no sense. Christ, a little rich girl whose relationships with other people of color were nil until she was an adult is more mainstream, not less.
And this drivel:
I come from a culture that wants to hear the words and the only attitude is a positive one.
Someone needs to sober the guy up and enroll him in reality classes.
33 - boomcrashbaby
I'm not sure what the origins of the music have to do with it, Glen, I must be misreading your post. I went back and read it again but I still don't see what your explaination relates to. But it doesn't matter to me, I was just pointing out an observation.
You talked about John Stevens and "The Three" (assuming this means the three divas). Then you talk about crooning vs. rap.
Since John Stevens = crooning, it reads like your analogy then goes to "The Three" = rap. I was just pointing out that they don't rap, and threw a humorous line out about why you might equate them with rap. That's all.
34 - Glen Grayban
Mac Diva, You will have to believe what you want to about me. However, on the level of music, America is not a culture as a whole. Yes, when you talk about economics, foreign relations and democracy, America is a single culture. It is ridiculous that one should think that stating difference in cultures is a racist’s statement. A culture e.g. "the tastes in art and manners that are favored by a social group
www.cogsci.princeton.edu/cgi-bin/webwn" has nothing to do with ones citizenship.
However, I will leave these last comments:
1) My list of acceptable only has one "white" American (Jimmy Buffett). The rest are not.
2) My reality is derived from whom and what I allow into my life and the choices I make.
3) If you do not see the difference between this, then I would suggest some light reading:
>http://www.gocampus.org/alliance/acquire/acquire1-4-1.htm
>http://www.usscouts.org/mb/mb017.html
Or, for more average reading:
1) http://www.stanford.edu/~roylance/americancultures/Pages/coordinators.htm
2) http://www.gdnet.ucla.edu/iacweb/iachome.htm
3)http://www.library.arizona.edu/library/teams/sst/his/class/tradcult103.html
By reading into these higher-education sites, I hope you will see that you are wrong.
I cannot imagine any educated person not preferring certain music just because the singer is from Africa and not England or Asia. Again, I was addressing a culture of music that spans many races and ethnicities.
35 - Tezcatlipoca
In all fairness I think its safe to say all American "pop music" spans one culture as much as anything. Sure rap, blues, jazz, rock, ska, whatever the hell else you want to name may seem different on the surface but underneath it, it's still from the same cultural origins. It doesn't have anything to do with race. But the references, phrases, concepts, the points of view and even the instruments are all the same.
36 - Mac Diva
There is a common mainstream pop music category. But, to accurately depict what occurs in it, one would need to diagram a large circle for that category and smaller circles for quite a few genres of music intersecting, but not fully within it. For example, circles for rap and country would part of, but not exclusively in, the circle. American Idol favors the music more fully embraced in the big circle, what one would hear on Top 40 radio, with some leaning toward older pop, too. It is the music of a common culture, American and international, that likes pop music. That mainstream category has been deeply influenced by American music, which has been in turn deeply influenced by the music of West Africa.
Glen Graybar is still using the word 'culture' to mask racist claims. Boom picked up on the ridiculousness of his claims. Assigning the three African-American contestants (then) to 'rap' and claiming the white contestant is a crooner is nonsense. All four sing the mainstream pop I referred to above. In fact, nearly all AI contestants do. That is what the show is about. What Graybar is actually doing is, though so foolishly argued it is hard to follow, is claim the white singers are superior because they are somehow above their AA counterparts and the music those contestants perform. Misusing the word 'culture' to do that is a very thin pretext.
37 - Natalie Davis
Indeed. Assuming that "the three" come from the same culture, one different from Stevens' ("3 of these people have the same culture, genre of music and same peers. The other person appeals to another culture that does not like the music of the culture of the other 3 contestants"), proves that what he calls "fact" is lunacy. Stevens and "the three" ARE peers -- young Americans on a TV show.
38 - boomcrashbaby
I don't know if I'd put the three Divas in the same style of music as John Stevens, but I'll take your word for it, if it's racist or not. What I do know is when I read the comment (#28) it read similiar to this:
"I don't like Whitney Houston because I just don't relate to that whole gansta rap." or maybe "No Madonna for me, I just don't get classical symphony!"
39 - kay
YO!! IT just a bleeping TV show. Get over it.
40 - Eric
If any thing Idol has a pro minority bias . look at the over repersentaion of minority contestents out of 16 contestents 8 are usually black 50 precent 1-2 asian 2-4 latino and usually 4 white thats not a fair repersentation of the actual usa statics where minorities make up 33 percent of the poplulation and AFrican americans make up only 12 percent not 50.
41 - Eric
Idol has 2 minority judges who show their bias in favor of black contestents and music any white they show favor towards is one who emulates and embraces a black style and has a R and B/gossipel hiphop flavor. if you don,t want white people to win on the show call it back American idol and put it on bet where it already belongs
42 - Eric
The one white judge on American Idol is not even a American,so how can white Americans be fairly and acurately judged when non of their peers are doing the judging or taking part in the shows standards?
43 - Steve S
The one white judge on American Idol is not even a American,so how can white Americans be fairly and acurately judged
1) ultimately, the votes AND WINNERS are done by Americans calling in, not the judges.
2) Just because there are no 'white Americans' on the panel of judges does not mean that white performers can't get an even break. That's a ludicrous statement that suggests that all minorities will only vote on race. Kelly Clarkson, season 1 winner and a white American girl proves that theory wrong.
You all just have a thing against judges, don't you?
44 - Eric
wow 1 white American girl won big deal. that don,t prove anything these are white people who sing like they are in a black church. like I said any white they show favor towards has a r and b/gossipel flavor,besides the fact there are token whites on soul train and bet as well and token black musicans in the white heavy metal sceen
45 - DrPat
Okay, I will be the first BC to admit I'm biased - againt American Idol. I don't have a thing against judges, though, ust the show.
[grin]
46 - Eric Olsen
Eric, you should perhaps return to defending Matthew Hale
47 - eric
olsen I think hale is a moron.however,I do think he was set up. I,m not down with hales out moded christen-conservitive way of thinking and yes I think a fair amount of what he preachs is propaganda,but I also think the media,government and education system enforces a certian amout of propaganda as well. people like hale are just a reaction to that
48 - Purple Tigress
I don't watch American Idol. Recently I was given cause to wonder about the outcome of these contests. There is a software that claims to be able to help you vote multiple times for your pick. I don't know if it works, but I think anytime you have a contest like this, there is a possibility of it being somehow manipulated.
49 - Eric Olsen
interesting PT, I think they are counting on the sheer volume of voting, and competing interests cancelling each other out, to overcome thing slike this
50 - Dee
what kind of contracts do the contestants sign? Is there anyway we can see a sample of the contract
51 - melissa
i think chris shouldn't have left. THE PHONES WERE SCREWED UP! I VOTED FOR HIM AND IT CAME UP KATHERINE.
52 - jessie
chris should stay! HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE LEFT. the phone line was messed up..and he needs another try....