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Uncle Jay Explains the News – “Uncle” Ruvy Explains….

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It's happened again, boys and girls! Another Monday came rolling around after Sunday! And "Uncle Jay", a Brooklyn boy with a white beard and not a whole lot of hair, a fellow who has worked in movie sound production and movie editing, started making his three-minute video "explaining the news."

And why should I know such a thing? Well, right before Christmas around Hanukkah, my friend from the Judean mountains, Jack Golbert, sent me this link telling me how funny it was. Well, he didn't send it to just me, he sent it to a few (thousand) close friends and relations. Anyway, I've been hooked ever since.

Boy did I have that wrong! Talk about bloggers checking their facts at the door! I got an e-mail from the real Uncle Jay asking me to fix the article. So, now the fix is in. The fact that your Uncle Ruvy was dumb enough to believe his original research and think that "Uncle Jay" was originally from Brooklyn, very likely Jewish, just a year or two younger than Uncle Ruvy, and looks at the world with the same wise-ass acre mentality that Uncle Ruvy does (that's three out of four wrong!) should not cloud your judgment of Uncle Ruvy. Maybe that Samarian mountain air did something to him. Maybe the fact that he just moved and is still living out of boxes… Heck, let's cut the whining, and talk some about the real Uncle Jay.

According to Notes from Neal, Uncle Jay is a familiar voice to those around Cincinnati, being better known as Jay Gilbert. Uncle Jay was one of the early crew on WEBN, one of the first FM stations playing “progressive rock” back in the early ’70s. He does the 3:00 to 7:00 p.m "drive time." He's an old hand at radio, and is possibly well known to the publisher of Blogcritics Magazine, Eric Olsen, also a (not so old) veteran of the radio business.

According to Waldorf to Your Astoria, Bill Konigsberg, who interviewed Uncle Jay Gilbert at the end of 2008, "Anyhow, yesterday I happened on a clip that has been making the rounds and getting rather popular, and really got hooked in." Sound familiar?

In the course of the interview, which Uncle Ruvy highly recommends you read, you find out that YouTube has been a godsend for Uncle Jay, who gets thousands of hits on his videos. Like many, he wasn't prepared for his success. Some folks, at least, are doing okay in this lousy economy. If he plays his cards right…

Anyway, yesterday (2 March 2009) the big story in the news was the stock market — where the Dow Jones Index fell through the 7,000 point level for the first time in a dozen years. Apparently, Uncle Jay didn't catch that one, having taken his notes on President Obama's State of the Union Address, and on the budget he presented to Congress, and he concentrated on those stories and the traditions surrounding them. I mean, there isn't a whole lot you can talk about in the time it takes to make and serve a Whopper sandwich (180 seconds or so), like Uncle Ruvy used to do so many years ago in Minnesota. Well maybe Uncle Jay did catch the story and decided to talk about something different. Uncle Jay had already made at least three videos dealing with what passes for the American economy these days; one on 7 April 2008, a great one on 22 September 2008, and one more on 23 February 2009. Plus, nearly every other video he has made since January 2007 has included some mention of the economy. Just how many videos can you make on the same boring subject, boys and girls? After all, who really cares about money, the budget, investments, keeping their job, their car, their home or what have you? Britney Spears is far more important!

Just ask a guy like Uncle Ruvy, who used to be homeless. He knows!

Now, this article really should be a review in the video or culture section of Blogcritics Magazine — but what makes Uncle Jay so interesting is the way he covers politics. He's a lot more informative than the screed writers of the newspapers that are dying away, or the screed writers of the now flowering "blogosphere" (including some of our very own friends right here at Blogcritics Magazine), though in all truth, you do need a working knowledge of current events in the United States to understand what Uncle Jay is talking about. We old (and not so old) geezers are the boys and girls he is really addressing with that sweet, friendly, sarcastic stab-em-in-the-back delivery style of his. If some kids happen to learn something along the way, well that's really great. But if they're too busy Facebooking and Twittering, and otherwise occupying their parents' computers with bullshit the wonders of 21st century technology, how can they possibly have time to listen to someone like Uncle Jay? I mean, he's an old-timer who still remembers the Beatles, for heavens' sake!

The Beatles! He's ancient!

But this young geezer does remember the Beatles and could care less about what passes for popular culture these days. Well, maybe those upskirt photos of Britney Spears or Paris Hilton do merit a glance or two. But otherwise…

 

Otherwise, it's rapidly getting to the point where Uncle Ruvy is willing to abandon the news of the "real" world – which is filled with lies and illusions anyway — and just sit back and enjoy while …

Uncle Jay Explains the News. It's almost as much fun as singing "Happy Days Are Here Again!"

Don't forget, boys and girls, you can always go to "Uncle J-Mart" and buy yourself a CD or a mug with that credit card mom or dad gave you. Remember not to use your hard earned money irresponsibly – that's the government's job!

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About Ruvy

Hi!! Thanks for coming to my article! I was raised in Brooklyn, was graduated from the City University of New York in 1978 with a BA in political science and public administration there. I lived in Minnesota for a number of years. There I managed restaurants and wrote stories. We moved with our children family to Israel where we now reside. My work can be found at Ruvy's Roost, Jewish Indy,, and on Facebook under my full name, Reuven Kossover
  • Cindy

    Ruvy,

    I thought this was hilarious fun. Uncle Jay is pretty funny too. The one about the blogosphere was my favorite.

    Here’s a post from my latest favorite blogger. Lot’s of bad language–one of my favorite upsets of the status quo, though I liked him even better when I thought he was a woman…

    (on Jindal’s complaint about the stimulus money for monitoring volcanic activity)

    Comrade PhysioProf

    Bobby Jindal Is Absofuckinglutely Correct
    February 25, 2009

    I think it is very important for each of us to take personal responsibility for geothermal tectonic activity. Eleventeen fucktillion gigajoules of magmatic energy is no match for the home-spun down-to-earth common-sense ingenuity of real hard-working Americans.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Ruvy,

    The satire aside, the saddest thing of all, perhaps, there’s no longer fun in America – no happy days, no happy times, no happy thoughts. Just the tenor of all the comments and articles published here is proof enough how serious it had all become. They’ve robbed us of our innocence.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Cindy, I think we each have a responsibility to host volcanoes in our own neighborhoods for the good of society. I’m waiting for the Obama administration to figure out how to allocate geothermal activity in an equitable way.

    Dave

  • Cindy

    Here’s something for you Roger.

  • http://www.joannehuspek.wordpress.com Joanne Huspek

    Roger is right, and it’s sad. I’ve been thinking of ways of stemming the negativity, but am coming up with zip, zilch, nada.

    Anyway, Ruvy, I also thought this post was funny.

  • Clavos

    Roger is right, and it’s sad.

    Heh.

  • Cindy

    Oh Roger,

    Don’t give up on the video before the kids get out of that garage. The middle and end are the best parts.

    (kids having fun always cheers me up anyway)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Of course kids do, Cindy. But I was in my twenties, and every day in America was like a brand-new experience – there was hope in the air, and optimism, and lots of fun. And it lasted for thirty years.
    Now there’s nothing but doom and gloom, and all the fun is gone. And it’s not just the aging; there’s nothing to look forward to anymore, no future.

  • Cindy

    Here Roger. Something to consider.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Is there truth to the rumors that President Obama will soon appoint a Fun Czar? Or that one of the czars already appointed will take that on as an additional duty?

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I got you, but my comments aren’t so much about my personal life. They concern rather joie de vivre that America once afforded one. That’s what’s gone. Everyone’s been affected as if by some incurable disease. The feeling is, we’re on a sinking ship.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Roger,

    When you live in the most prosperous nation, the richest nation in the history of mankind, in the biggest city (New York was once the biggest city in the world) on the planet, of course there is a certain joie de vivre bubbling over. How could you avoid it? I lived in Brooklyn and I could feel it every single time I took the subway to Manhattan, or went to Brighton Beach.

    Now?

    Listen to the rap music, man! When it isn’t filled with how some bitch is a whore, or how some cop should get killed, it’s filled with philosophy. When I was a kid, it was all hormones and love. Who needed philosophy? Who gave a shit? Go watch the movie “Sandlot” if you want to feel what it was like when I was 12 years old.

    Since Vietnam, it hasn’t been the same. A bunch or wogs in black pajamas showed the most powerful army in the world the difference between believing in what you do and trying to play all the angles. And the stupid fuckers in D.C. still haven’t figured out the basic lesson. When you go to war, you fight to win – otherwise, just stay the fuck home.

    When we were kids Roger, the whole world owed America – and now they (I thank G-d it is “they”, and not “we”) owe the whole world. That ain’t fun. It sucks! You didn’t exactly get kicked back to post-war Poland with the financial meltdown that is going on – you can still eat real cottage cheese instead of qvark, and you can drink real coffee instead of chicory, but it seems like you and all the other Americans are on the express train to the the Gdánsk station – the one on the poor end of town.

    This is where that Jewish heritage of yours can save your ass. Go check out the Jewish calendar. It’s Adar! Get happy! Purim, the holiday where the bravery of a woman who fucked a gentile king saved our people, is right around the corner! And that miracle of salvation was repeated again in our own lifetime when someone (or was it Someone) killed off Joseph Stalin right before he was going to initiate the murder of the 3 million Jews in the Soviet Union! Right on Purim!

    Break out a bottle of wine and pour yourself a glass. Wine gladdens a man’s heart. And if you really need to laugh, go over Uncle Jay’s podcasts.

    Laugh a little bit, Roger! At least no Arab is tried to kill you with a tractor today. Be thankful for small favors!

    There is more to life than Schopenhauer or Kirkegaard, or Marx or Gramsci. Don’t forget that.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Great thoughts, Ruvy. Believe me, I’m not an intellectual and have tasted all pleasures, from the most carnal to the most sublime. Perhaps I should get my lazy ass out of here and make it back to NY (or at least California) and mix with hoi poloi. It’s all about life anyway – fuck politics, and economy and all the other bullshit. I’m not against hedonism.

  • Cannonshop

    Heh, that’s the problem-they can’t drink.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Who are “they”?

  • http://jetssciencepage.blogspot.com/ Jet

    “They” are “them”, just in the present tense.

  • Hope and Change?

    Ruvy…I agree….BUT…all the cultural crap is the fault of the 90% of Americans who dont like whats happening but keep quiet so they wont effend someone, be called a racists or a homophobe…

    The country has been morally hijacked by a twisted few who find happeness in the dumbing down and moral decay of the US…

    Not to fear…the coronation of King Barry, the most over rated and unqualified leader in world history..has awakened a sleeping giant!

    For the first time I am seeing non-politcal people getting pissed off and saying “How the fuck did we get here? And how can this Moron be running our country into the ground?”

    Like an substance abuser…you need to bottom out before you accept personal responsibility and make your way back! So here we are king barry is our rock bottom… and we know it…its time to stop the nonsense and take this country back!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    H&C,

    The moral decay of the States has been going on for about 90 years. The folks who have sought to dumb down American culture have been at it for that long, at least.

    “Mass culture”, which has done the dumbing down, began seriously when the radio (Uncle Jay is Jay Gilbert, a radio DJ in Cincinnati, by the way) became popular in 1923, but it got started when Henry Ford started to succeed with his Model “T” a couple of years earlier. Radio and the Model “T” are the two items that have shaped American culture more than anything else in the last 90 years. And the automobile and radio are what have shaped mass culture world-wide.

    This magazine caters to a niche in mass culture in the United States. So, in my comments I cannot afford to be too condemnatory – I get to hang my writer’s hat here because Eric Olsen is pushing reviews of the trash more popular items released as “mass culture” 90 years after it began to dominate life in the United States.

    And Obama is not the nadir you make him out to be – your nation still has a few more notches to drop. Obama is a big huge signpost along that road to disaster – and you’ve passed it. Now the hill will slope further downhill, and the car will careen faster that it had.

    And now I must leave you for about 25½ hours or so. Shabbat has arrived, and I leave this computer to consider the Work and Word of the Creator…. Think of it as a commercial break for our Sponsor.

    shabbát shalóm, u’mevorákh
    May you have a peaceful and blessed Sabbath,

    Ruvy

  • Baronius

    Roger, I’m still having fun.

    Ruvy, you’ve missed the inside story about modern American culture: Americans don’t pay any attention to it anymore. We don’t watch network TV. We don’t buy rap music (actually, no one buys music any more, and most people don’t listen to rap). Just about the only aspect of modern culture that you can’t avoid is the almost-child almost-porn. But as a rule, if you’re following American culture, you’re a foreigner.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, we’re still preoccupied with celebs and movies. Not much music, anymore. And the new thing: no more the dating scene, just hooking up.
    Football is still big; and beer drinking plus barbecue.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Shavua Tov,

    Ruvy, you’ve missed the inside story about modern American culture: Americans don’t pay any attention to it anymore.

    Folks around me do follow the trash that passes for American culture. Lots of them are “foreigners” – to you, that is. Lots of them are ex-pats like me. Most of my ex-pat neighbors have the same opinion of American culture as I – addictive porno-trash of a drug crazed pack of fools.

    I grew up in something healthier and better is all I know. I’m glad that my kids did not get the full blast of the trash that is American culture today. They don’t view weekends as a time to get drunk, stoned or high, they are not involved in constantly trying to get laid, and we can talk with them.

    Does that make them different from American kids? I’m not sure. The Americans I do meet these days (in person, not here) seem flighty and somehow disconnected from reality. Or terribly depressed.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Comm’n, Ruvy. You’re being a little unfair. Hollywood, American music and jazz, the easy-going which USED to characterize American kind of interaction – these used to be cultural traits the rest of the world was envious of and eager to imitate. Take a look at how the Japanese culture adopted those standards, or how the Vietnamese who had come to American have assimilated – the way they dress, talk. They’re more American than Americans.

  • zingzing

    i’m not sure the extremely religious (ruvy) are ones to talk about american culture. they are a part of that culture that likes to separate themselves from the culture by sometimes violently condemning it. the rest of us like our vices, and understand them for what they are.

    american culture is broad. maybe it isn’t deep, but it’s got loads going on and sucks up influences from all sorts of sources, spitting them back out new and highly desirable.

    no culture is 100% perfect, ruvy, no matter what you may try to think of your own. even you have a nasty streak towards violence and senseless condemnation. you’re also judgmental. but, you know, violence is addictive to the religion-crazed. now go look out your window and watch the bombs go off.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But zing, Ruvy was born and raised in U.S. – same parts as you. Besides, I don’t think he was ortodox or Hassidic, so he couldn’t forget.

  • Clavos

    spitting them back out new and highly desirable.

    Pretty good characterization of american “culture” — up to that part.

  • zingzing

    roger: “But zing, Ruvy was born and raised in U.S. – same parts as you.”

    exactly. although i wasn’t born and raised in this part. it’s his religion that makes him so judgmental of the culture he grew up in.

    clavos: “Pretty good characterization of american “culture” — up to that part.”

    well, god knows why, but the world keeps gobbling it up. and so do we.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That was later in his life, zing – the result of the conversion. I doubt he forgot his American roots, more like he’s denying them now.

    And why not gobble it up to a point, I say. Once upon a time – hell, even today, there’s still freedom. No country comes even close.

  • Cindy

    america the exceptional…

    my country tis of thee sweet land of liver tea…

    (sounds like something Stan or Dr.D would drink)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’d go along with that. And I’d gladly join them.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    i’m not sure the extremely religious (ruvy) are ones to talk about american culture. they are a part of that culture that likes to separate themselves from the culture by sometimes violently condemning it. the rest of us like our vices, and understand them for what they are.

    Extremely religious? What do you know about Judaism – or about me – to say I’m extremely religious, zing? Keeping kosher and attempting to keep the Sabbath is minimal stuff. Extremely religious Jews wouldn’t bother communicating with the likes of you here, zing.

    Having grown up in American culture, and seeing it sour in my own mouth in my own lifetime, it bothered me to raise my kids in the States. And this had nothing to do with religion, zing, it had to do with seeing morals go down the toilet. You know, stuff like personal responsibility, respect, sobriety, etc. I saw as a relatively non-observant Jew, the way kids were NOT raised by self-indulgent parents who were more interested in their own pleasure and entertainment. That’s what happens when you hang around single, bitter, women, looking to get into their crib. They have kids to raise – but they want their own pleasures, too. You learn an awful lot in those bars in St. Paul, zing…..

    I got lucky and married a woman who was not divorced or bitter towards men. I really got a second chance to try to do it right – something few people get – and I have done my best.

    Now, to be blunt, if kids in Tel Aviv were not lapping up American ideas like “lunch tax”, drugs, getting drunk, buying expensive clothes for no good reason, you could all stew in your shit, and I wouldn’t care. If American politicians were not constantly interfering in our affairs (that credit chit you call “foreign aid” – with all of your damned restrictions that cost more than your credit chit all tolled – is interference in our internal affairs), I’d have NO reason to write here at all.

    But since Israeli kids are imbibing your trash – and Israeli politicians are getting your trash shit all over their lips – and all this damages the country
    I live in, I have plenty to say. And if it comes out as a condemnation, you are seeing what a slightly religious, secular minded Jew sees when he looks back at the corpse corpus of mass American culture he left behind.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But Ruvy, in the sixties when I was there, the respect for U.S.A. was at its height. I’ve seen Lois Armstrong in live performance, the movies and adoration of the American movie stars, the Saturday night scene and pick-ups. It was vintage Americana before I even knew what America was like. So things were different once, weren’t they?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Roger,

    If you view 1959 as the start of the “sixties” (I know, I’m stretching it a bit) you are looking 50 years back. And by 1969, the country was a whole different place. By 1971, it had lurched onto an awful path that was going to injure it terribly, and by 1975, when the soldiers had to flee from Saigon, America had really changed – and not for the better.

    The issue is not “wasn’t there some good stuff?” but “where did the good stuff go?”

    Guys like Jay Gilbert, who do parody on their drive time radio shows, and who now do it on YouTube, are making fun of where we/you have gone. Uncle Jay, is especially funny and good at it because of his deep and detailed knowledge of American mass culture.

    BTW, while I’m at it, re-read this article once or twice, guys. I made some serious mistakes in the original text that I had to change.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’m in perfect agreement with you here. And that precisely was the context of my dissatisfaction with America now – where did it all go?

  • Clavos

    I’ve seen Lois Armstrong in live performance…

    Would that be Louis’ mother, sister, wife or aunt?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Sorry. The man himself.

  • Clavos

    C’mon, Roger, that deserved a smart-ass riposte, not a wimpy apology…

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    where did it all go?

    I think it went where the fire goes when it goes out.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I agree, Clav. Fighting Cindy all the time gets me on a whimpy side now and then. Won’t happen again!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I hope she appreciates my submission.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski
  • http://jetssciencepage.blogspot.com/ Jet

    All women appreciate it when a man submits Roger.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    How well do I know it, Jet. I’m just waiting for the chance. It’s round the corner.

  • http://jetssciencepage.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Submit your checkbook

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’ve always been generous, especially when women were concerned.

  • Cindy

    All women appreciate it when a man submits quits: trying to boss them around, tell them how to think, correct their “misguided” opinions, and treat their ability to be comfortable expressing emotions as “hysteria”…

  • http://jetssciencepage.blogspot.com/ Jet

    …and people still wonder why I’m gay

  • Cindy

    “Having a big idea is a fairly arrogant thing to have.”

    Naomi Klein’s remark on being asked why authors of popular “ideas” books tend to be men.

  • Cindy

    lol Jet!

  • zingzing

    ruvy, if you’re “slightly religious,” i’d hate to see someone who is “extremely religious.” but if you object to the “moral” lapses in american culture, there’s one of two things going on: you’re getting religious, or you’re getting old.

    our culture (and probably your culture) have always been morally suspect. it’s just what bubbles to the top and what remains hidden. we’re all perverts in one way or another.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Don’t worry, Jet. It’s just the usual war of the sexes. “Taming of the Shrew” is what they all ask for. Never mind protestations to the contrary.

  • Cindy

    Colorful, Roger…most men who find themselves to weak to deal with strong opinioned women just call them a bitch.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Spoken like Heneke. BTW, zing. Heneke was only following the script (The Piano Teacher), which was much more radical and shocking. You should read the book. A Noble Prize winner.

  • Cindy

    Not cowing to a control-freak bully who thinks it’s their job to forcibly change everyone doesn’t make one a shrew or a dominatrix.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “Having a big idea is a fairly arrogant thing to have.”

    Naomi Klein’s remark on being asked why authors of popular “ideas” books tend to be men.

    Now, here you display real prejudice – by generalizing. What would you want to do that (even if it’s true in most cases) unless you’re not secure enough with respect to your own identity as a person, irrespective of sex?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    zing,

    ruvy, if you’re “slightly religious,” i’d hate to see someone who is “extremely religious.” but if you object to the “moral” lapses in american culture, there’s one of two things going on: you’re getting religious, or you’re getting old.

    Maybe I’m spoiled. Like I told you, I live with a woman who is not bitter towards men, loves kids, and has a solid moral foundation – probably far more solid than mine. She taught me about faith, not the other way round. She has stuck through our roughest days in this country, even though originally she did not want to move here. She is “a woman of valor whose price is far above rubies”.

    I can’t sing her praises too highly. Screw this submission crap. I give her what I can with an open hand and a grateful heart.

    I’m used to living with someone to whom honesty means something, to whom loyalty is worth giving. So looking askance at vices is not really part of my equation anymore. It might have been once – my dead roommate smoked pot, drank to excess, once got rolled for $140 in Mpls. He was an okay guy, a good man, but his vices diminished him. And my vices diminish me. If you are willing to live with your vices diminishing you, zing, that is your business. But I do not want to be diminished by my vices. The price gets higher by the year.

    Oh, by the way, we all get old. It’s a function of staying alive. If you live to be 58 or 68 or 75, you will be getting old. Get used to it, dude. You are not getting any younger.

  • Cindy

    You’re projecting. Anyway, you’d have to ask Naomi Klein why she’s so insecure. I’m sure she’d find that amusing.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That does sound perfect, Ruvy, a true soul-mate. But you know, I’ve been married three times and had numerous long-term relationships, not to mention a couple of gun-shot marriages. All my mates have been great, except that were weren’t mature enough at the time. And one one had made a better person out of me, better ready and able to take on the new challenges.

    Women are smart and lucky a man who realizes that. All that one-upmanship and the war between the sexes is bullshit: it all dissolves in light of decent communication and sharing.

    I’ll second Will Rogers: I never met a woman I didn’t like.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I never suggested that Naomi is.

    You fail to understand that I’d like nothing better than a secure woman.

    Christ, get it into your head that I want an equal partner – not a pushover.

    Always have, always will.

  • Clavos

    Are you sure you don’t have some masochism in you, Cindy?

    You keep beating your head against the same wall…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy, Roger,

    Reading the two of you argue here is almost like reading “The Lockhorns”. Fortunately, it is just internet piffle, and not a real argument….

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The argument would be very quickly resolved, Ruvy, over a round of drinks. I guarantee it!

  • http://jetssciencepage.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I wonder who’d have the hairier chest?

  • Cindy

    Clav,

    That’s an excellent point. It’s dawning on me. I’m just slow.

    (at least that’s what my nephew claims :-)

  • Ma rk

    Here at BC Harmony we discourage drinking contests until couples shows themselves to be truly simpatico.

  • Cindy

    lol Jet! (smack)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I wonder who’d have the hairier chest?

    Such pleasant memories of high school you bring back to me, Jet – about the busty young thing whose jealous female colleagues allowed that there was more than mere mammary glands on her chest – and then there was $5/hr Elise….

    Of course, in those days, $5 bought a lot more than a cup of badly burned coffee or a subway fare or two.

  • Cindy

    I wouldn’t mind talking to women once in awhile.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: ” He was an okay guy, a good man, but his vices diminished him. And my vices diminish me. If you are willing to live with your vices diminishing you, zing, that is your business. But I do not want to be diminished by my vices. The price gets higher by the year.”

    you know what, i realize that. that’s why i have continually diminished my vices. slowly, until i grow old, i say, but with the understanding that sex is not a vice. drugs and booze are vices–fun, but vices–and they have/will/have/will pass away. but sex, and the wonderful, wonderful perversions of sex, will never be something to judge or diminish.

    that’s where religion goes too far. it makes women into whores and men into… wait, what? tyrants? how does that work out?

    …when it comes to sex, the rules about it aren’t fair. and especially when the religious men make the rules, the rules become some sort of perverted thing. we (men) created this world where women are sexualized by skin. men are sexualized in a different way. by money. by jawlines. shit, i dunno… i’m straight. but we don’t sexualize men by (usually) removing clothing from their midriff. (unless it’s 1985.)

    anyway. religion doesn’t object to the sexualization of men. it only objects to the sexualization of women. some, like feminists, might call it objectification. and that may be true. but we only go for what you tell us we can’t have. whether you’re feminists or religious nuts (ruvy, don’t deny it), or whatever… you tell us we’re wrong and we know we’re on the right track.

    WANT is far more powerful than “truth” or “faith.” DESIRE makes those things seem like hope.

  • Cindy

    zing,

    i can’t speak for feminists in general. but, i don’t think objectification has anything to do with not excepting sexuality. for me it distorts sexuality. i also don’t think that there is something inherently wrong with men. and that objectification of men as income producers is also distorting.

    i don’t see that young boys treat girls as objects normally, even if they likely want to have sex with every young girl they see. theoretically they could, in my opinion, without treating anyone as an object. so, recognizing sexuality is not the same as objectification.

    it’s more, to me, about how a person is viewed than the fact that they are viewed.

  • Cindy

    “excepting” should be “accepting”

  • Cindy

    also zing,

    i think commoditizing sex is a destructive thing, but that’s what one get’s with Capitalism. female images are distorted into an ideal that has nothing to do with real people. pornography is degrading. this is all learned stuff; boys don’t begin with these ideas of sexuality. it also makes girls body conscious and self-deprecating.

    i would rather promote a view of sexuality that is based on acceptance of real people (who have real bodies). there isn’t much/any? sexual material that takes this view of women and men.

    real experience with real people is what i think is desirable. i accept that teens are sexual people. i would just like to see that sexuality blossom in experience with real people.

  • Clavos

    Cindy,

    i think commoditizing sex is a destructive thing, but that’s what one get’s with Capitalism.

    I agree, except that sex has been commoditized (?) since the dawn of history; it long predates modern Capitalism.

    Remember what is said to be the world’s oldest profession?

  • Cindy

    It’s not the idea of images that bothers me Clav. Men are visual, so that quite natural. It’s the way they are distorted and the content.

    In fact I was trying to find some material that held sexuality in a positive light. Something with images that depict real body shapes and happy people. Something artistic, maybe, and suitable for a young person. This would be for my nephew, to offer a substitute for what his older buddy is no doubt introducing him to. I haven’t found anything. I never thought about it before he became a teen. But, I can’t find anything.

  • Clavos

    I understand your point, Cindy.

    I meant that sex has been a commodity with some segment of the male population pretty much since we came down out of the trees, and likely even before.

    And, truth to tell, women have recognized and used this as a means to their ends as well, and for as long.

    It always has been that way, and probably always will be.

    But again, not everybody.

  • Cindy

    Thus, the need for a society that doesn’t require becoming a commodity to satisfy material needs.

  • Clavos

    Thus, the need for a society that doesn’t require becoming a commodity to satisfy material needs.

    With respect, I don’t think anything, not even your concept of the ideal, Utopian society, will ever eliminate that phenomenon, because sex is used by both genders to achieve ends having nothing to do with material needs.

  • Cindy

    But then how would sex be being used as a commodity (or to commoditize a person)? I’m not against any consentual relationships.

    Put another way: If a woman’s material needs are met and she doesn’t need to become a prostitute to meet those needs–then there’s nothing I imagine I am opposed to.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #76,

    Like self-validation? Or fuller, more meaningful life? Just asking.

  • Cindy

    Hey, even if it is some kinky ideas. Who am I to decide what people should want?

    Meet the material needs through an egalitarian society that values community is basically my position. I think many of these things that are destructive to healthy sexuality self-view and other-view would diminish and disappear.

  • Clavos

    Meet the material needs through an egalitarian society that values community is basically my position. I think many of these things that are destructive to healthy sexuality self-view and other-view would diminish and disappear.

    I’m not sure of that, Cindy. Sex, as you know, is one of the most powerful forces driving humans, and often manifests itself in dehumanizing and bizarre ways that have nothing to do with other wants, material or otherwise.

  • Cindy

    You’re right that it’s my guess. Maybe it won’t ever be eliminated. But, one thing for sure is, there isn’t much chance to find out by keeping a system that turns sex into passive spectacle rather than an active relationship of experience with another–and people into commodities in pursuit of, not real relationship, but that same spectacle.

  • Clavos

    BTW, I forgot to mention that Broward Medical Center in Ft. Lauderdale is also building a solid rep as a cardiac center, though I don’t think that it reaches the levels of Emory or Methodist DeBakey yet. That said, my father had a very successful aortic valve replacement there almost thirty years ago, in 1982.

  • Cindy

    Thanks Clav. It’s harder than one thinks to get info without asking real people.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    zing,

    When I was talking about my dead roommate’s vices, I was talking primarily about smoking, alcohol and drugs, and the negative effects that flowed therefrom. I wasn’t thinking about sex. When I was talking about my own vices, I was thinking primarily of things like procrastination, not doing things when I need to, These things diminish me.

    But since you raised the issue, in my own eyes, sex that exploits is wrong. That’s a tricky call, but it is the standard that I use. So prostitution, in my eyes, is wrong – because either the john or the prostitute – or both – are being exploited.

    And you are making assumptions about what religion does or doesn’t do – and more to the point, being a believer is different from being “religious”; and I’m a believer more than I am religious.

    The rules found in the Torah (vayikrá/Leviticus, Chapter 18), apply to the Children of Israel within the Land of Israel and have nothing to do with you guys. So far as I’m concerned, the rule that applies to you all forbids sexual immorality in a general sense – with details still to be worked out by Noahide judges. Since I am not a Noahide judge, I cannot tell you what sexual immorality means for you. And assuming would only make and ass out of you and me.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Another word you’re looking for, Ruvy, old-fashioned as it is, is promiscuity.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    And for all my many relationships, I never really was guilty of it.

  • Cindy

    I am with Ruvy on the exploitation thing.

    But, that is what it is, it’s all about exploitation of something or someone. Sex, weakness, identity…

    And that’s somehow supposed to have something to do with individual liberty. When one’s individual liberty is reduced to the chance to exploit someone else, it makes me wonder how dizzy one must get giving all those twists to the meaning of the word.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Getting back on topic, I watched Uncle Jay’s latest on 9 March. And he was having trouble keeping a smile on the face of what is shaping up to be an economic disaster.

    And he hadn’t even read this from Global Research! If he had, he might have thrown in the towel altogether….

    Happy Purim, boys and girls!

    And speaking of Purim, here is a recipe that Rabbi RaHamim Pauli received for a great Purim meal.

    You’ll need the following: a cup of flour, four large brown eggs, two cups of dried fruit, a half teaspoon of salt, a cup of brown sugar, a cup of water, 1/4 cup lemon juice, 1/2 cup walnuts and a bottle of whiskey.

    Sample the whiskey to check for quality.

    Take a large bowl. Check the whiskey again.

    To be sure it’s highest quality, pour one level cup and drink. Repeat.

    Turn on the electric mixer, beat one cup of butter in a large fluffy bowl.

    Add one teaspoon of sugar and beat again. Make sure the whiskey is still fresh.

    Cry another tup. Turn off the mixer.

    Beat two leggs and add to the bowl and chuck in the cup of dried fruit.

    If the fired druit gets stuck in the beaters, pry it loose with a drewscriver.

    Sample the whiskey to check for tonsisticity.
    Next, sift two cups of salt. Or something. Who cares? Try the whiskey.

    Now sift the iemon juice and strain your nuts. Add one table spoon of beer or something.
    Whatever you can find.

    Grease the oven. Turn the cake tin to 350 degrees.

    Throw the bowl out of the window. Try the whiskey again – and go to bed.

    Hag purím saméaH….

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, I don’t think this recession is all that. They said on a news report yesterday that it is not yet as bad as the one that happened in the 80s – and I never even noticed that one, or the previous one in the 70s, until they had already happened.

    Just as with previous economic adjustments, life will go on. The kind of revelling in these undoubtedly painful adjustments that some people seem to go in for is just hysterical…

    Maybe you should make an adjustment to the news sources you refer to, unless it suits you to proclaim these events, as you have been doing for so long now, because you have such a different agenda.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I can’t fault you for a sense of humor, Chris. GM is on life support, banks are failing all over the place, the American government is spending all sorts of money it doesn’t have, and never will – and you seem to be willing to believe a sweet candy report patting you on the head and telling you that everything is alright. Have another piece of candy, Chris….

    Either that or you are joking altogether – but in your case I don’t think you are.

    Cattle going to the slaughterhouse seem more perturbed than you are, pal. I keep an eye on stuff from Global Research because they have the annoying habit of being right when it comes to the economy – even though their views on Israel disgust me.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’m not certain I’d go along with you, Chris, on the tenor of your general remarks (not those directed at Ruvy). Perhaps you’re less affected by what’s happening here – you’re somewhere in Spain, no? No question that the press and the media contribute here to everyone’s perception, but still . . . Layoffs and the free-falling market, people losing their savings – these are everyday occurrences.

    Of course life will go on. It always does. But what I see, it won’t be quite the same.

  • Clavos

    But what I see, it won’t be quite the same.

    Probably true. We’ll be rid of a lot of dead wood (GM, Citi, e.g.)

    Now, if we could only figure out how to get rid of about 3/4 of the Federal gummint…

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    You’re both exaggerating, presumably from too much media exposure?

    Ruvy, actually GM might fail but so what? Car manufacturers have failed before. Some banks have gone in the USA and a few more might go here and there, but most banks are still there and there is money available. I’ve been granted three mortgages in the last two weeks and I don’t even have a credit history in the UK anymore as I was in Spain for over 6 years.

    As to debt, it can be a funny thing. I’ve never been in more debt but I’m getting richer not poorer, despite the lack of a huge any disposable income! What seems like an impressively large sum to owe is usually reduced to more manageable proportions by the twin effects of time and inflation, so there is no reason to think that nations like the USA won’t get through this.

    I’ve no idea at all what you’re on about with your sweet candy thing report, so unless you start to make sense, I’ll assume that is just another of your “special” moments…

    Roger, I don’t really care about falling share prices. Investing in shares is – and always has been – nothing more nor less than gambling. Actually gambling is more honest as you don’t get insider trading in a casino. Better Vegas than Wall Street!

    If people are rash enough to gamble blindly based on the opinions of others, it is hard to feel much sympathy when they lose. However, if gamble one must, when better than when share prices are back to where they were a few years back?

    There have always been lay-offs and there always will be but, for every car company that dies, there are literally dozens of new, more hi-tech companies starting up all over the world.

    Yeah, it ain’t the greatest of times economically, but we’ve been there before and we will be again. We’ll get through it – unless it actually is going to be the end of the world somewhere between 2012 (Mayans) or 2030 (Ruvy) – and then it won’t matter anyhow, so lighten up!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’m all for a major cleanup, Clav, and restoring integrity to corporate culture. And I should hope the present efforts are remedial, that once the mission is accomplished (a big if), the government will be less intrusive (another big if).

    One disturbing news had come out overnight: prohibiting companies from pleading their case with the employees in the matter of unionizing. I’m not very happy about it, because it perpetuates the adversarial model in times when all Americans should coming together and work on solutions.

  • Cindy

    Scientist reveals what men REALLY think of when they look at a girlie calendar

    Here is an interesting article, that might say something about objectification.

    When men are shown images of women in bikinis, the part of the brain they use when thinking about DIY tools and other objects lights up.

    At the same time, the region they use to try to tune into another person’s thoughts and feelings tunes down, brain scans showed.

  • Clavos

    We’re such animals!!

    Thankfully.

  • Cindy

    Nothing wrong with an animal nature.

    Somehow, I doubt it’s an animal nature that puts a partner in a category with a do it yourself tool.

  • Clavos

    “images of women in bikinis” are not “partners,” Cindy.

  • bliffle

    It’s those darn Ridgid Tool calendars:

    Ridgid tools

    Us guys owe a debt of gratitude to pinup artists because as Art Buchwald put it “they show us that there’s a lot more to women than just brains!”

  • Cindy

    Clav,

    Are the pictures of the men wallets & security? Apparently that is what the female brains in the study saw them as.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Chris,

    I’ve no idea at all what you’re on about with your sweet candy thing report, so unless you start to make sense, I’ll assume that is just another of your “special” moments….

    I don’t see the world through rose colored glasses. With a name like Rose, I’m not surprised that you do. As for GM or Ford, they deserve to go out of business for all the shit they have stuck on the market for decades – but who is going to feed all those kids of the parents who will be laid off? Who is going to feed all the kids of the parents working for the satellite firms who supply the parts, etc? You with your three mortgages? Maybe cars should be like computers with all the parts interchangeable so you can get them off the shelf – but at this point they aren’t. Loads of banks deserve to go out of business too, for all the stupid things they have done. But again, who is going to feed the kids of the poor workers there who are laid off? And with what money?

    Where are the people who have had their mortgages foreclosed going to live? Under what bridge? In which cave? Having been homeless for a good year or so, I know what homelessness and hopelessness feels like. While strong adults can handle it, the weak ones can’t, and it really works a number on the kids.

    This is serious shit, Chris. That is why I was warning about it two years ago. Go back and look. I didn’t write articles on the coming decline, but whenever someone else did, I latched on and threw my two shekels in. That is why I do not view this as just another “spot of hard times”. A huge nation’s money system has just collapsed, and you can see chunks of its economy drifting away like ice from a melting glacier.

    How or when this will hit you, I cannot say. I am no economist. G-d knows I’m no prophet. Visibility, as the businessmen call it, is real poor in all this, and the world is not used to America collapsing. But I can see the Coracle moving in History’s stream, and the American Coracle is moving towards rocks upon which it may well collapse.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    I can only assume that it is your determination to ignore anything that doesn’t fit your predictions of doom on account of your mystical “insight” which caused you to ignore my point about how new businesses are forming as the old ones shrink.

    It wasn’t that long ago that the East India Company was one of the most powerful corporations on the planet. Now it’s just an odd footnote in history. Thirty years ago Microsoft didn’t exist, now it is arguably on the wane.

    You don’t really know what is happening in the West, Ruvy, just as we can’t know what it is really like to be living the precarious life you do. You of all people should know better than to believe what you see on TV news or read in the papers.

    It’s not a question of me being an optimist, although I am, it is a question of accepting the reality of the situation, rather than part of it, which is what you do.

    If you look back at the recession of the 30s, it is statistically just a tiny blip now, practically indetectable, just like other, more recent falls. However, somehow economies have managed to get over these terrible disasters and carry on. Why should we think it is apocalyptic this time? On the evidence so far, it isn’t, so maybe it would be a better tactic to lay off the doom-monging. There are enough manic street and web preachers all around the world doing that already. So far, nobody’s predictions of doom have ever come to pass, that is a fact you can be sure of.

    America or, more correctly, the USA, is not collapsing, it is changing and evolving, just as it should do and just as other countries are too. Nothing could or should try to prevent that.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You may be right, Chris. But if you were an American, you’d bemoan the loss.

    I can’t blame you, of course, for subscribing to a larger view. Still, it’s a downer because we set the trend. Now, it looks like it was all for naught.

    Think of the good times that America had once meant and signified – the hope and the portent. It’s all gone or about to disappear.

    I bet you won’t enjoy it as much once the dust settles. Life will be drab.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Roger, what loss? If you mean GM, they deserve to go to the wall for producing shit cars for years. With the partial exception of Ford, your entire car industry sucks massively and deserves to suffer.

    If you mean the US, as I noted above, it’s a change, that’s all. So we live in interesting times, it ain’t so bad and way better than being bored.

    The best of us is yet to come, mate. Enjoy the ride.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Yes, we’re up for a ride. I was just thinking of the good ole’ times when everyone was happy-go- lucky and carefree. The good old American clunkers, and Saturday nights on the Main Street, pick-ups and movies. The whole shebang.

  • Clavos

    @#104,

    It ain’t often I so totally agree with you, mate.

    Just wish it weren’t costing me so much of my personal treasure (41% so far); I don’t suck massively, and at least IMO, don’t deserve to suffer.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Clavos,

    Just wish it weren’t costing me so much of my personal treasure (41% so far); I don’t suck massively, and at least IMO, don’t deserve to suffer.

    That’s the point, Clavos. I don’t think you deserve to suffer – but suffer you do. So, what’s happening in the States is not “a change, that’s all”. Unless I’m wrong, you may not be in the position to replace that 41% of your wealth.

    Think of my father-in-law, who was 82 last October. He is a damned decent fellow and he doesn’t deserve to suffer either. But suffer he does. And he cannot replace the wealth he has lost in the market.

    We’re not talking about irresponsible people here, not you nor my wife’s father, nor Joanne Huspek, nor a whole host of people who are suffering what is more than just “a rough patch”.

    My own neighbors talk of how business seems to have dried up altogether. My neighbor the publisher can’t get any business, my neighbor the photographer talks about “being more flexible” (a sure sign of trouble), my neighbor the tour guide is grateful not to have his own business, and to be working for someone else, etc. etc. But the kids’ mouths still have to be fed.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, that’s an awfully selfish attitude, Clav, to judge the situation from your own singular perspective. What about the greater whole?

  • Clavos

    What about the greater whole Roger?

    Isn’t that what I’m paying taxes for?

    And isn’t it the entity to whom I’m paying the taxes that is the source of most of the problems?

    And finally, isn’t that what you liberals are for?

  • Clavos

    One final note, Roger:

    Read Ayn Rand’s The Virtue of Selfishness.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Clavos – I’ve read that, and I’ve read Plato, too, about what we commonly consider to be in our best self-interest.

    Sorry, but I’d rather side with Plato.

  • Clavos

    Of course you would — brilliant intellectual that you are.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Re #112

    Censors! Quick! Personal attack! Bring the fire hoses!

    Whoops, my bad. I need new glasses. The second grouping of ll looked like ff.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, people who invested in shares ARE irresponsible because it is gambling, pure and simple.

    Clavos, invest in real goods not stocks. Pork bellies, corn, houses or boats maybe.

  • Cindy

    Re#99

    bliffle,

    That is pretty funny, now that I think of it.

  • Clavos

    The time is getting very ripe for buying houses, Chris — at least here in South Florida…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Ruvy, people who invested in shares ARE irresponsible because it is gambling, pure and simple.

    For once, Chris, we actually agree on something. I gambled in the market, and won, getting out with all my chips and more. We lived on those chips here in Israel for quite some time. I gambled in real estate and also won (though when I did, I wasn’t intent on gambling at all, just buying a house to live in) and with the winnings from that we were able to move to Israel.

    I’m not a riverboat gambler, though. Quite the opposite.

    I tried to get my father-in-law to get out of the market in 1987 when it crashed. He said he had seen worse (meaning the shitty markets in the 1930’s when most folks stayed away out of sheer fear of losing everything. He got me to go in the market, and I was a conservative gambler, very rarely losing anything. But, if you want to play the market, you have to be willing (and able) to lose like a Christian. If you can’t you’re screwed – badly.

    My father-in-law started with nothing in the market, doing very careful research and investing conservatively with such free funds as came available as my wife and her siblings were growing up. He eventually came up with a very large portfolio, and he had a lot of faith in the market, something I never had.

    I don’t think I have to tell you how he feels these days. He can’t ever replace what he lost. He’s just too old.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, I think you’ll find that we agree on more than just one thing. Indeed, the only thing I can think of that we substantially disagree about is that you think it is okay to base your life around a belief system based on the unproven existence of a deity, which I consider reckless and a folly.

    As to your father-in-law, those shares are inheritable so, as long as they aren’t sold at a market low point, they can still deliver value to people in the future. Not perfect admittedly, but there is still the potential for a winning run in the Wall Street Casino.

    I’m not against investing in shares, but it absolutely has to be approached as either a very long term investment that you forget about or you have to go in having previously accepted that you are gambling and shouldn’t invest more than you can afford to lose.

    I did some day trading in the mid 90s and both won and lost fairly large amounts of money. Now I see that there are much smarter ways to invest, where the odds are more in my favour.

  • HeddaCabbage

    Does this guy makes ignorance or wisdom more blissful? Whichever, thanks for introducing us to Uncle Jay, Ruvy.