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UCLA Student Picks a Fight with Police and Loses

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University police officers used a Taser on a student repeatedly during an altercation at the UCLA library at 11:30 pm November 15. There was a video made by a student witness, who captured only the end of the altercation with the student shouting profanities at the police and then screaming in pain when he was tasered.

What the video did not capture was that the student was asked repeatedly to leave by library security and refused. This led to the police being called. When the police took him by the arm to ensure that he left, he began to swear, threaten, and physically resist them. In short, he picked a fight with police and found out the hard way why that is generally a bad idea. Could police have tried to de-escalate the situation? Maybe.

Police stated that the student in question encouraged other students to join his one-man resistance, which likely led police to threaten the mob that surrounded the officers. The ACLU, of course, is calling the police's actions an illegal assault and police brutality. Because the video on the web only shows the tail end of the confrontation, and then only mostly audio, many people have begun to jump to conclusions about the matter. One columnist for the Daily Bruin has cautioned against to rampant knee-jerk responses to the matter.

On a campus where arrests due to student disruption seem common, it is little surprise that police take verbal abuse by students seriously. The response to the tasering seems to speak mostly of anti-police sentiment.

There are only a small number of ways to force an unruly individual to do what you want. You could physically strike them and encourage a hand-to-hand combat situation with a police office, which would likely threaten their own safety. You could beat the suspect with a baton causing no small amount of pain and physical harm. Or you could use a Taser, on the settting which they used, to encourage cooperation. In all but the cases of individuals high on drugs, Tasers do not cause fatalities. They choose the safest option for an uncooperative individual.

You reap what you sow. The idea, mostly coming from the left, that the police must treat citizens with the utmost level of respect while insisting that it's perfectly acceptable to verbally defecate on police officers and physically resist legitimate orders is absurd. He picked a fight with police and he lost. It's that simple.

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About John Bambenek

John Bambenek is a political activist and computer security expert. He has his own company Bambenek Consulting in Champaign, IL that specializes in digital forensics and computer security investigations.
  • Anonymous

    You’re a knee-jerk right-wing blogger writing in knee-jerk bad english. You need an editor, and you need to be less partial in your reporting.

  • Josh

    Anonymous, it’s hard to take you seriously when you don’t back up anything you say with facts. How is Bambeneck being partial? Isn’t he instead calling for impartiality?

    YOU are obviously the one with the knee-jerk, biased reaction here. Remove the splinter from thine own eye.

  • mistyeyed

    i wish you were there too

  • Jerry

    Cops are human.
    Sometimes they make mistakes, but it looks like it was the student who made the mistake on this one.
    If the cops had made the mistake he’d probably be in the hospital rather than the slammer…that is if he was even arrested.

  • Doctor G

    Maybe Mostafa picked a fight, maybe not. Either way, the cops should have been professional enough to avoid it. And either way, he survived the first round. Further rounds will take place in court and in public opinion, and when the last round comes there will be cops in prison, and university administrators out of work, and Mostafa will own Powell Library. So who are the losers here?

  • fakefakefake

    This is not fact. Be careful, reporting fake news can cost you lots of money.

  • 2xtreme

    Picked a fight and lost? Sure maybe he was being uncooperative, but was it necessary to use the taser that many times? I dont think so. He could have easily been removed after one, and even that I think was too much. Yelling at a student to ‘stand up or you’ll get tased again’? Ridiculous. Get hit with a taser like that and then tell me how quickly you can jump back to your feet. This was an absolutely sickening act by people who are supposed to be protecting us. No matter how unruly, after what he went through, he was obviously not a threat, and could easily have been removed. The UCPD took it way over the line and deserved to be disciplined, or even tried, for this disgusting act.

  • JohnSucks

    I agree with 2xtreme. The officers physical integrity was never in danger and there was no need to do that. The student was already leaving when the officer grabbed his arm (why?) . They could have easily dragged him out even without tasing him. On top of that they did it 5 times, one time while on handcuffs. You dont tase people just because you get anoyed. John Bambenek you are a piece of scum just like those cops.

  • ShiniGami

    I can tell you whiners never have to deal with law enforcement. Who is this person, why no ID. What’s in his backpack, etc etc. They’re supposed to let him go, then the news is “Mysterious Middle Eastern Man with backpack eludes police. Community in fear.”

    If they say stop, you stop. If they say get down, get down, if they say stand up, stand up. Yelling F You and not complying is all this guy did, so he gets tasered. Would you rather they beat him with a nightstick or shoot him?

    He’s an unknown person, with no ID, that had been asked to leave, and didn’t, and they were called in to handle him. They said MANY MANY times, in a clam voice, stand up. He didn’t. So he got tased. He could have stood up, and walked out quietly, no problem. When they asked him to stop, he could stop, and explain the situation.

    This F!ckTard got what he deserved.

  • uncontainable spirit

    He was mentally aware enough to claim “abuse of power” to the cops, and when they told him to stand up, he said “F** you.” Screw the little punk. All he needed to do was what was asked off him. But no… idealistic little college prick has to do what comes so instinctively to a college kid (not all of them of course): Rebel. Protest. March. Demonstrate. While those traits were noble in that they were used effectively to combat and cure such social injustice as civil rights, and war, this was nothing but a big mouth smart.ass who refused to follow the rules.

    He had to know, even if it’s in retrospect, that he was dealt a losing hand, here. And he dug his own grave. I don’t like pain, and feel for anyone who suffers pain; but I can’t go with a defiant student. I look at it like this: he just earned a few stripes towards rank in the real world.

  • European Student

    I think you should see the video yourself, instead of just rant about people’s reaction. For the record, I am from Europe, from one of those countries where we used to have police behaving this way during a dictatorship, nowadays police is as effective as before and they do not use those methods… mostly because there would be virtually no-one like you defending what is impossible to defend. Yeah, the guy got himself in what happen, agreed… still, Police incurred in a clear abuse of power, cause you overview the fact that they tased him while handcuffed, they tased him 4 times in fact… can you explain me how is that reasonable?. I guess you right-wingers are ok with this so that it will be completely true that you bring your democracy to Irak… exact copy, there you send guys in green, here you have them in Blue. I wish some day you manage to come out of your cave and see that there are places where things work in a different way.

  • RJ Elliott

    Little pinko punk got what he deserved. He was just playing to the crowd anyway, probably exaggerating his “screams” of pain. And if the tasing was so horrendous and damaging, how/why was he able to continue profanely mouthing off afterwards and whining about “excessive force” and the like?

    And what’s with his apropos-of-nothing bitching about “The Patriot Act” ??? WTF does that have to do with the use of a taser by the police against an unruly/uncooperative person? Were tasers invented after 9/11?

    Let me explain the situation for you from a police perspective. They are called onto the scene after someone has been asked to leave by the staff (presumably for a legitimate reason). Upon arriving, that individual still refuses to leave. The police have a duty to remove the person from the scene at this point, and this person has repeatedly refused to leave voluntarily. Therefore, the police have to use force to make him leave. Yes, force. That’s what police do; in fact, that’s why we have created police in the first place. They are there to maintain order, and when order is not able to be maintained by talking and reasoning, police have a legal monopoly on coercive force, and the duty to apply it.

    Eurotrash student – How nice of you to compare this little event to the various brutal authoritarian dictatorships that have arisen over the years on your continent. Of course, we in the US don’t have nearly the experience in dictatorships as you Euros do, so please, lecture us some more.

  • jack

    How can anyone see this video and not react with shock? It does not matter how the whole thing it started. That point is irrelevant. The fact of the matter is – he could have easily put under control without the use of so much force.

    I just ran into this blog by accident … but i hope you get sued. If this is your idea of journalism – you really suck at it. You take the cops version as reality w/out questioning it at all. Has the thought ever occured to you – that they could lie?

    But that point is mute … i pray to God that you get tazed someday and see if u can stand up in your feet.

  • bojo

    Dear idiot blogger,
    I suppose your inflamitory headline was meant to get you some more web hits.

    Maybe if you watched the video you would understand that there was no fight picked, only a brutal show of excessive force by a militarized police force out of control.

  • RJ Elliott

    I have a feeling this post’s comment thread will easily run 200+ comments in no time, mostly from anonymous leftist anti-police morons who seem to think that belligerent assholes who repeatedly refuse to leave a public place should be handled with kid gloves by the only people who have the legal authority to intervene…

  • ShiniGami

    “Maybe if you watched the video you would understand that there was no fight picked, only a brutal show of excessive force by a militarized police force out of control.”

    OK mama’s boy, excesive use of force would be shooting him 10 times with a HK G36c.

    Again, perp with no ID, asked to leave, and won’t. He could be armed, have a bomb in his bag or who knows what else.

    Any of the people touching the cops or interferring should have been tasered too.

  • Maureen

    All the cops had to was handcuff him and drag him out, if this scenario is true. And based on the fact that they used a taser, which is used to make people fall and stay down, and then tasered him for not getting up, shows me how sick these cops are. Regardless of what the young man did, it didn’t warrant repeated use of a taser, a tool being overused and responsible for more than 80 deaths over the past seven years. The phrase ‘knee jerk response’ applies, but not the way you’re suggesting.

    I’m not defending the student either, since I wasn’t there. I’m just saying that if the story is true the way it’s being depicted here, the police are still guilty of abuse.

  • Ahmed

    How difficult would it have been for the police to drag the student out of the library? Mumble on about how the taser is the best of the weapons blah blah blah but the fact of the matter is they could have simply dragged him from the room. People don’t get tasered when they’re getting thrown out of clubs, just dragged out and dumped on the street. As soon as they started using the taser they were obviously in the wrong, and repeated use is going to win this guy millions in court. Best of luck to him, this was obviously police power-tripping at its finest.

  • onthefence

    The blogger seems to jump to a conclusion at least as quickly as those “many people” he mentions in his blog. On the face of it, the video is disturbing. However, more investigation and less jumping is called for

  • Matthew T. Sussman

    The more that I think about it, this really is the PATRIOT Act’s fault.

  • Brett

    This stupid blogger is just wanting more attention. Well, he got it. The bottom line is that he wasn’t there. I wasn’t there. However, from what I read, there was a random ID check (for whatever reason) and this kid didn’t want to show it or didn’t have it. The rules of the university need to be checked to see if students are required to show ID when challenged. Either way, I would like to see statistics on how many blond hair, blue eyed girls were asked for ID in comparison.

  • hot to trot

    that video = funny. You libbies don’t fool a soul.

    did the cops have to use the taser??? prolly not, but it’s still funny to watch that spoiled rotten kid play victim to the audience like any typical liberal attention whore. so random. I loled at his forced screams and cries. they were SOOO put on!



    You KNOW i’m right.

  • Doctor G

    No, Mister Trot, I know you are wrong.

  • RedTard

    I think if someone refuses police requests and puts up a fight policemen should have to apologize for offending the person and leave the area immediately without follow up. Police should only be able to harass obedient, law abiding types.

  • STM

    The cops do get a bit angry sometimes when young blokes won’t do what they’re told.

    My son was recently thrown by a police officer into a window at a McDonald’s in Sydney. It was 2am, and he’d previously been involved in what could best be described as a minor, drunken altercation in the pub up the road with another boy.

    Both boys were asked to leave, but continued to argue verbally in the carpark at Macca’s.

    The cops were there getting their food. My son was told to go home, but then stupidly remembered he forgot to get a burger and went back to stand in the queue. Smart move. The big problem was that the two naughty boys had been swearing their heads off at each other. Loudly. The upshot was that my son was thrown into a plate glass window, which cracked.

    The police then threw him to the ground, threatened him with capsicum spray, handcuffed him and threw him into a paddy wagon and drove him to the police station where he was charged with assault (over the pub incident) and malicious damage for breaking the window, claiming that he’d continually thrown himself backwards into it and that their role was limited to “gently” placing their hands on his chest.

    The assault charge was dropped as no-one even thought there’d been an assault in the first place, including the victim.

    Then the magistrate dismissed the malicious damage charge, after viewing the security video and hearing about three hundred hours of evidence, commenting that since the crack in the window was a metre off the ground, it seemed more likely that he’d been propelled backwards into it (either that, or he’d have to have been a midget).

    As the charge of offensive language is no longer holding up in the courts here, the one thing they could have legitimately charged him with, they didn’t (luckily, there’s no charge for being an idiot).

    The cost, after hiring a solicitor AND a barrister, not to mention the time off work, a cool $10,000.

    My advice to young guys: shut the up and don’t argue with the police, even if you think you’ve done nothing wrong. If they tell you to piss off, just go.

    Ten grand is an awful lot of biscuits.

    And stop taking years off your fathers’ lives.

  • Christopher Rose

    STM: You should be outraged by the behaviour of the police. Police forces worldwide seem to become more bossy and controlling all the time and we shouldn’t tolerate that.

  • STM

    Mate, I must say I am very pissed off with them. It is now likely to go a bit further than the Magistrates Court as they did do the wrong thing.

    It would be nice too to get some of the money back.

    However, he was told to piss off and go home and had he just done so, they wouldn’t have got the screaming shits. Testosterone + alcohol + being a dickhead is a fairly standard potent cocktail for an 18-year-old.

    He sees the injustice of it, but also the stupidity of it.

    Both things are good to take on board.

  • Remon

    “If they say stop, you stop. If they say get down, get down, if they say stand up, stand up.”

    And when they ask you to bend over, I assume you’ll be first in line?

  • Anonymous

    From the Daily Bruin’s first report, filed at 3 AM on Wednesday morning:

    At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs [Community Service Officers] asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

    The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

    The student began to yell “get off me,” repeating himself several times.

    Let me re-emphasize: he was leaving when the UCPD returned and seized him. That’s not picking a fight. It’s called leaving. This is what makes your reporting not only partial, but underresearched at best, flat dishonest at worst – but inevitably you draw false conclusions.

    The video also shows an officer threatening a witness with tazing. This is assault in itself.

    Bambenek, I also “cautioned against to” you writing without an editor. Get one.

  • Franco

    If you are in a collage library and the library officials have had to ask you to leave, then you are responsable for starting a problem. When you refuse to leave and causing an even bigger scene, you have purposely intensified the problem. When library officials are left with no other option then to call campus police for assistance in your removal then you have purposely escalated it to a serious problem and you know this full well all the time you are causing this disruption and enfringing on the rights of others to enjoy the peace of a libarry and study.

    When campus police arrive and ask you to leave and you tell them FY and try to elicit other students to join your disruption, this clearly shows that you have no respect law and order or for others and are not rational and you are potentially dangerous to other persons and maybe even yourself. What you have done is challenged and forced the last measure and means of authority no other choice then to act.

    Campus police have rights too, they are people just like you and I. The difference between them and us is that they are trained to deal with threading situations and to evaluate the safest means for all involved, including the suspect, to bring an out of control situation under control which they clealy did, swiftly and with out any injury or damage to other persons or property.

    This guy has no one to blame for getting tased then himself. I commend the campus police for minimizing additional risks to the suspect, to themselves, and to other students and persons in the library. I also commend them for swiftly ending the disruption, and quenching any others in the mulling crowd thinking of joining in.

    We need such police and I support them and the actions that they have taken in this case.

    If the ACLU wants to fight for this guys civil rights, then I would ask, what about the civil rights of all those in the library that he so willing violated causing this massive disturbance. Don’t law abinding citizens have civil rights too.

    The ACLU can kiss my ass.

  • John Bambenek


    Why do you hate America?

  • Maureen

    I agree that when the police tell you to do something, you do it. To do otherwise is sheer stupidity. But whether this student was leaving or still sitting there, using a taser was overkill and unnecessary, since he wasn’t fleeing the scene of a crime he’d committed.

    I’m very conservative, but even I can see that regardless of the circumstances presented by both sides, the cops were in the wrong. To pretend that he was a threat to anyone, knowing that two of them could have handcuffed and dragged him out easily, is ridiculous.

    Or maybe some of you are the types that would like to see people getting beaten with billy clubs for speeding and not presenting their licenses fast enough, because you’re twisted.

  • Les Slater

    It was April 15 some number of years ago. I had not completed my tax filing so needed to file an extension.

    I work hours that were somewhat flexible so I took an early lunch so I could be at the IRS office before they took their lunch break or were inundated with long lines. I got there at 10 minutes before noon. There were two people in line. I got in behind them. The window was closed and said ‘out to lunch’. There was no specific statement as to when the window might be open to resume business.

    I waited, looking forward to 12:50, figuring that would have been at least an hour. 12:50, then 1:00, window still closed. At about 1:10, first person in line voiced ‘Hello, anyone in there?’, to which there was no response. This was repeated in a few minutes.

    The line had grown quite long at this point and a couple of us were discussing the situation. I advised that someone make a loud rap on the door. It was suggested that I do it. I rapped the door with my knuckles three times in even and firm succession.

    Very shortly an angry person opened the window and said ‘Who did that?’, I responded that it was me. He told me to go to the end of the line. I refused, explaining that this was April 15, this was the main IRS office in the city and they had a responsibility to be reasonably available to the public, which they weren’t, and I had acted reasonably in response to the situation. The person told me that was his decision and I had no choice. I asked to speak to his supervisor. He identified himself and stated that he was the one in charge. I said ‘With all do respect, you do not seem like the type that the IRS would put in charge of a major field office.’ I asked again to speak to his supervisor. He refused. I said I’d be back.

    Let me step back a few months. The previous year my taxes were filed on time and a refund was due. The IRS informed me that they would not give me the refund unless I corrected an error in the filing paperwork. After examining the paperwork I found no error on my part but an error of theirs. I insisted they pay the refund.

    It was a fight that took several months. I won. During that fight, after it got escalated to Washington, the head of the Boston IRS and I were on friendly terms. He agreed with my take on the dispute and was interested on how it would get resolved. It made it up into the Carter White House and was resolved to my favor. I got the refund without revising any tax forms.

    Now fast forward to the situation at the IRS office where I said, ‘I’ll be back’.

    I went down one floor to a pay phone. I had the name and telephone number of the Director of the IRS in the Boston office. I asked if so-and-so was in charge of that regional office. He said he had never heard of him and that one of two other so-and-sos was in charge and said that the higher of the two was likely there.

    I walked back in to the IRS office. The man at the window pointed to me, two beefy police officers started walking briskly in my direction, I asked loudly, and clearly, asked to speak to so-and-so. The cops almost tripped over their own feet trying to stop.

    I can only speculate what might have happened if I did not have and inside hook in the situation.

  • keeeleed

    Please don’t waist time writing…

    Do you even know what the police policy for the use of such force is?

    If you are trying to get a reaction from readers by posting ignorant and ploarizing comments…Well, you have succeeded.

    One thing is for sure, natural selection will take care of people like you, and the rest of us will continue to seek civil rights for all.


  • John Bambenek

    Let’s talk about natural selection for a minute, when the police tell me to leave, I leave. I don’t respond by going **FUCKING APESHIT** screaming at the top of my lungs, getting in their face saying “Fuck you get your hands off of me”.

    I’m not the one getting cooked by a Taser, because I’m not the one picking a fight with police and then hiding behind civil rights.

    If you want to talk about civil rights, let’s also talk about civil responsibilities.

    If he was really leaving, he would have been gone already.

  • Les Slater

    “Let’s talk about natural selection for a minute,…”

    What? The student will sue, should win, and probably will. That puts the student in a better position to survive.

  • Cheetham

    Do not spread your bullshit.
    The cops asked him for his ID as he was on his computer. He told them that he didn’t have it on him and that he would leave by himself. They then grabbed him by the arm and the start of notorious video ensued.

  • perfect day

    Sometimes cops arrest rapists. So it’s ok for cops to rape people sometimes. You reap what you sow. You can’t expect law enforcement to behave any differently than criminals, suspected criminals, or people who won’t leave the library. That’s why they have tasers.

    Fine insight, great site.

  • Les Slater

    I have had many years experience with the police. It is not difficult to find pigs amongst them.

    The statement that they have the least sympathy for is ‘I have a constitutional right to….” Their typical response is that they ‘don’t give a fuck about constructional rights’.

    I don’t back off too easy but when they threaten arrest, I do. In the process, I make clear that they are violating democratic rights, not for the benefit of the cops, but others who are witnessing. I’ll sometimes come back with a letter from the city attorney explicitly explaining those rights. Then, maybe, the cops that show, back down.

    It is important to be able to use the rights that we have. The police are often there to intimidate.

  • Kim (UCLA)

    So, did the students who asked for the officer’s identification deserve to also be threatened? I find that hard to believe. Did you even watch the video Mr. Bambenek? The students weren’t violent. They didn’t join a “resistance”. They didn’t retaliate. They asked in timid voices if they could get the officer’s name and badge number. They were largely scared and intimidated by the abusiveness of the officers. I don’t know what happened before the video began and neither do any of you. Regardless of the conduct of Mostafa Tabatabainejad before the video, the other students did absolutely NOTHING to provoke the officers. How then is it okay for the officers to threaten them? They knew that the “law” was abusing its power and so they asked for identification. They asked the men to stop because they were hurting Mostafa. Sir, the students were no “mob”. They were not threatening in any way, shape, or form. They were scared students who knew that what was happening was wrong.

    When officers threaten peaceful students with violence, they lose all credibility. When an “academic professional” names them a mob and attempts to validate the abusive actions against those students, he too loses credibility.

    “On a campus where arrests due to student disruption seem common”
    Excuse me? UCLA has 25,000 undergraduate students and 10,000 grad students. I hardly think the arrest of 9 students for passive protest constitutes “common”. (By the way, one would think an academic professional would know how to proofread.)

  • HillBilly aka Just One Man

    Any Muslim Jerk-Off that gets out of line should be tasered and dragged behind a pick-up truck …on second thought why wait till they get out of line!


  • Jim Treacher

    “Let me re-emphasize: he was leaving when the UCPD returned and seized him.”

    And yet he told the LA Times he dropped to the floor before they tased him. And as you can hear in the YouTube video, he was screaming like Mommy wouldn’t let him get a candy bar at the checkout line. Other than that, though, his behavior was exemplary.

  • Terrofried

    btw—UCLA Police’s Assistant Chief Jeff Young acknowledged that Tabatabainejad was a “passive resister,”–a far cry from a ‘student picking a fight with police’ as you claim!

    The handcuffed student might have been a jerk, but no matter what he did, he did not deserve repeated jolts of electric torture!

  • Les Slater

    I was born during WWII. When I was growing up I encountered the question many times about how all those people in Germany could have allowed Hitler to come to power.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    What is with you and college kids Bambi? Take it easy alright. I don’t give a fuck what the student did or said. There is absolutely no reason to taser an already apprehended, handcuffed suspect who is being held by two police officers. I agree, the student probably was testing the officers and intentionally making a scene. That is absolutely irrelevent when it comes to tasering a suspect. You will note that the student NEVER stood up, despite repeated tasering. The police easily dragged out the already handcuffed student without him standing up. Commanding him to stand up was power tripping on their part. It was absolutely unnecessary; they easily removed him without him standing up. The tasering accomplished NOTHING. Cops throw people out of buildings who are resisting probably DOZENS of times a day. No Tasers required. All the tasering accomplished was to escalate a scene and get more college students involved and upset. The student probably WAS testing the police. And they failed.

  • Kavalec

    Come pick a fight with me. I show you losing.

  • Anonymous


    Why do you hate America?

    Bwahahahaha! I’ve got it: you’re Lynne Cheney in drag. Or an intern for Fox “News”.

    You need more than an editor, Bambi. You need a little original thinking. This is your best knee-jerk response to criticism, isn’t it? Once more:

    Why do you hate America?

    Try again, Bambi, try again.

  • Rob Roy


    Neither you nor I saw anything before the biginning of that video. You can choose to take the officers word for it, but do you really think 5 tasers is necessary? many stories conflict on this issue but from I have read the student witnesses are saying different things then the police. I think it is clear misuse of power.

  • handyguy

    It’s amazing how many commenters on this site [most, apparently, right-wingers] all think it’s ok to taser the kid, who was, after all, actually a student, not an intruder. And not just once, five times.

    John’s disgraceful apologia for this despicable abuse of power reminds me of similar reactions to the Rodney King video. But just as in that case, we don’t need to see the beginning of the incident to know that the end of the incident was a terrifying, totally unnecessary, over the top use of force on a man who was already down.

    And asking posters, “Why do you hate America?”! Come on, John. You’re an associate editor on here, fer cryin out loud. Surely you’re capable of better. You should be ashamed. So should Blogcritics.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Yes, odd isnt it that mostly right wingers should come to the defense of police officers who Taser a college kid? Wouldnt have anything to do with the college kids political leanings would it?

  • The camel trader

    Holy Guacamole Batman. Use the tasermaserfazer on the student prick.

  • Nancy

    Franco stated the situation quite nicely, including the obvious conclusions. For whatever reasons, this guy picked a fight & suffered the consequences. The police did what they had to do. This person clearly had issues & deliberately picked a fight. Additionally, he had no right to be there after being asked to leave by the rightful authorities. Being tasered was an easy get-off; had this happened anywhere else, he would have been beaten to a pulp.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Did you watch the video Nancy? They applied the Taser not because he wouldnt leave or was resisting, but because he wouldnt stand up upon command. The kid never stood up, despite the Tasering. He was already handcuffed. They dragged him out. They could have accomplished all this WITHOUT the use of a Taser and WITHOUT making a disruptive scene in the library. The Taser served NO useful purpose. It accomplished NOTHING except attracting a large crowd. Generally, the accepted punishment for causing civil disturbances is a fine or jail time, NOT physical pain. The application of physical pain to a handcuffed suspect being HELD UP by two officers serves NO USEFUL PURPOSE. The two officers could have easily dragged him out, in disgrace. Instead they chose to play along with his game.

  • Les Slater

    Nancy #52

    I’m sure not everyone got the intended message of my #44.

    Nancy was foremost on my mind when I wrote it. What side would she come down on? Had I judged her too harshly in the past?

    Nancy seems to be an intelligent person. Sometimes I think she has the sharpest and most progressive position. A recent statement about women controlling their own bodies comes to mind.

    I have also singled Nancy out as the type that I consider the most prone to be attracted to a fascist solution. She sometimes seems to flip into an arch-reactionary, or even an arch-radical, with a pension to express her opinion in a most violent way. Sort of a Dr. Jekyll, Ms. Hyde.

    Of all the people on this board, I believe that she has the potential to be the most dangerous.

    The general observation I have made in following this thread is that when confronted with some situations, some ideas, some people genuinely lose their ability to think rationally.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Nancy, no matter how despicable the college student is, it doesn’t excuse what the police did. I agree! The college student WAS picking a fight. He probably is very idealistic, thought he was being a martyr, etc etc etc… He even deserved to be punished SEVERELY, by the school and/or by the police. However, the use of a Taser is completely out of place. It accomplished nothing. The application of physical pain in a public place (a LIBRARY of all places) to an already detained suspect is completely inapropriate, unwarranted, unnecessary and ILLEGAL. the video. The Taser did not change the situation AT ALL, except to attract outraged students. Before, and after the Taser, the student was held handcuffed by two police officers. He was EVENTUALLY dragged off, and the Taser accomplished NOTHING.

  • larry

    reminds me of the old song i fought the law and the law won. they are just doing their job.

  • S.T.M

    Here’s the truth: should the police have tasered this kid? As is too often the case, they’ve taken their little bit of power too far, so in all honesty, the answer is no.

    Should he have buggered off as soon as they told him? Considering what happened, the answer to that is yes. I bet he leaves quickly next time.

    So how on Earth does this become discussion about who’s right wing and who’s not?

    It’s really an example of testosterone-driven stupidity, a young man’s bloodymindedness – and an abuse of power.

  • gazelle

    Tasering is less messy than abu-ghraib or is it?. ucla. shame.


  • RedTard

    “As is too often the case, they’ve taken their little bit of power too far”

    That’d be the typical liberal way of looking at it. From my perspective it appears that police do at least a pretty good job of demonstrating restraint given a very difficult job.

    The idiot was making a scene and inciting others to do the same. It’s simply human nature for the officers to want to get out of there as quickly as possible. They believed use of the taser might expedite the process (which is allowed by the manual) and it didn’t.

    I’m glad I don’t ever have to do their thankless job. As I was typing this a quick note in the local news came across about a policeman recovering after he was hit in the back of the head with a bottle. He received much more damage and pain than this petty college student but there will be no outrage at what happened to him. That’s part of the job I guess and reason they draw the big $30K salary.

  • RedTard

    It’s kinda nice how liberals always come out in force to defend any perceived ‘victim’. I just wish you guys were better at seperating true victims from people who are only victims of their own idiocy.

    Also, when police get assaulted there’s no big jury award awaiting them. The same cannot be said of individuals such as this student. Another benefit of the thankless job.

  • Bernard

    The police were never threatened by this individual. He also was not larger or any way seemingly an imposing threat to overpower the police. Tasers are issued to law enforcement to allow to them to defend themselves; they are not issued for intended use when police are too lazy to carry the suspect out or to vent their frustrations on an uncooperative individual. This event was a flagrant example of misconduct on the part of a few overworked police officers.

    I also find it funny that the author of the blog states that UCLA is a place where student disruption is common yet doesnt back up his assertion with fact (Instead he posts a link to an article about students from Santa Barbara and Santa Cruz disrupting a meeting held at UCLA). Just the kind of spin from a right-wing pundit who will try to twist anything in a futile hope to elicit a point which his fellow right-wingers will vehemently defend without giving it a critical eye.

  • RedTard

    “his fellow right-wingers will vehemently defend without giving it a critical eye.”

    And your fellow left wingers will conveniently ignore any of the actions of your precious ‘victim’. He wanted a confrontation and he got it. Big deal.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    We’re not ignoring it Redtard. Read the comments. Almost everyone has acknowledged the young man was totally out of line, deliberately provoking the police. The police had him handcuffed and were holding him on his knees. They should have dragged him out like they do 99 / 100 similar scenarios. Instead they used a taser to try and get him to stand up. He never stood up. The taser accomplished nothing – except to attract outraged college students. After repeated tasering they eventually dragged him out – what they should have done from the very beginning.

  • Dubya Bush

    “I was born during WWII. When I was growing up I encountered the question many times about how all those people in Germany could have allowed Hitler to come to power.”

    Yeah, because tasering and arresting some asshole in a library is just a hop, skip, and jump away from genocidal mass murder at death camps…

  • Dubya Bush

    “do you really think 5 tasers is necessary?”

    Not really; I think ten would have been better. Preferably in the eyes.

  • Dubya Bush

    “It’s amazing how many commenters on this site [most, apparently, right-wingers] all think it’s ok to taser the kid”

    A “kid” who was 23…

    “who was, after all, actually a student, not an intruder.”

    Of course, the police had no way of knowing that since he refused to show ID or leave the library…

  • Dubya Bush

    “when confronted with some situations, some ideas, some people genuinely lose their ability to think rationally.”

    Clearly … but does every single one of your posts have to be about YOU ???

  • Les Slater

    “…arresting some asshole in a library is just a hop, skip, and jump…”

    I have noticed in the threads on this blog, and especially to this post, that there seems to be irrational responses to what seems to be an ingrained hot button in some bloggers.

    I read the link to the Daily Bruin and the articles in the LA Times.

    It is OBVIOUSLY CLEAR that the treatment that the student got was unjustified. It was cop brutality, plain and simple.

    It is not entirely clear to me after reading carefully all the accounts I could find, is what transpired leading up to the brutality by the cops.

    I can, however, empathize with the student’s resistance to what he believed to be harassment due to appearing to be from a certain region of the world.

    I posted my #33 to present a situation that could have led to a similar result. What if it did? Well, the clerk would have described me as belligerent, the police would have said I was trespassing, and of course, the obligatory, ‘resisting arrest’.

    It’s not a question of such tactics leading to a fascist state. It is a question of what process, or lack of, was used to determine whether to accept the police version.

    The result of police brutality is often the death of the victim.

    How we evaluate these cases has some bearing on how much the police will get away with it. As they get away with it, the population becomes desensitized and more can be gotten away with.

    We are not at a stage where mass recruitment to fascist bands is likely, however, I do see signs of characteristics of certain thinking, or rather, the inability to think, that will be attracted to a fascist movement.

  • Jack

    For those who questioned the victim’s “defiance” in standing up after being tasered, the taser is designed to incapacitate the target.

    “According to Taser’s promotional materials, its stun guns are designed to “temporarily override the nervous system [and take] over muscular control.” People who have experienced the effect of a Taser typically liken it to a debilitating, full-body seizure, complete with mental disorientation and loss of control over bodily functions.”

  • Jerry

    Les #68
    “The result of police brutality is often the death of the victim”.

    What is your source to back up this assertion?

    I haven’t researched this topic, but I’d bet for all the times that police screw up, there is 100 times that they have handled a potentially dangerous situation with gracefulness.

    How many times have these officers been spit on, striked, kicked or even shot at in LA. This is no Rodney King case. Cut them a little slack

  • RJ Elliott

    “The result of police brutality is often the death of the victim.”

    No, that is not “often” the result at all. Not even close.

    And of course, the use of tasers was introduced at police departments across the country for the express purpose of further reducing the likelihood of serious injury or death to a resisiting arrestee.

    This kid will suffer no permanent injury as a result of being tased while resisting arrest. Maybe the police should have clubbed him with batons instead? Or used pepper spray in an enclosed environment? Or just shot the bastard?

  • Les Slater

    Not often? Too often!

    From first paragraph of Human Rights Watch Overview on Police brutality.

    “Police abuse remains one of the most serious and divisive human rights violations in the United States. The excessive use of force by police officers, including unjustified shootings, severe beatings, fatal chokings, and rough treatment, persists because overwhelming barriers to accountability make it possible for officers who commit human rights violations to escape due punishment and often to repeat their offenses. Police or public officials greet each new report of brutality with denials or explain that the act was an aberration, while the administrative and criminal systems that should deter these abuses by holding officers accountable instead virtually guarantee them impunity.”

  • RJ Elliott

    Quoting “Human Rights Watch” to support your position is pretty much ceding the argument, isn’t it?

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Look people I know you all hate the “victim,” and I agree, but please don’t lose sight of the fact that the using an incapacitating pain inducing device to get some one to stand up makes no sense. The two officers were already holding him on his knees. They could have easily dragged him out. After several taserings with no effect, they did so. I understand you don’t like the victim and he probably deserves a good spanking, but please, don’t let this excuse the actions of the police. The police don’t hand out spankings. The law does.

  • RJ Elliott

    I will agree that tasering a man and then immediately demanding that he “stand up” is somewhat ridiculous…

    I do not know what level their tasers were set on, but it is possible that he was physically unable to stand up on his own…

    Of course, if he was a normal human being, instead of a whiny, melodramatic little bitch, he would have simply said that he was unable to stand due to the tasering, and the officers would then have dragged/carried him out, and that would have been the end of it…

    I guess the punk was trolling for media attention/litigation money/leftist martyrdom, so he made things as difficult as possible for the police officers on the scene…officers who probably make about $35,000/year while performing one of the most dangerous jobs in the country…

  • John Bambenek

    According to the Human Rights Watch and the “international community” the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel.

  • indy

    Why is this incident being used as a right-wing vs. left wing thing? I thought all people in this country enjoyed their civil rights, whether they leaning left, right or stand in the middle. The cops were being thugs, no ifs, ands, or buts. How is it ever necessary to repeatedly stun a man, no matter what a “jerk-off” he is, 4 times WHILE HANDCUFFED?!!!!!! Maybe he deserved it in the beginning, I did not see what led up to the incident. But repeated use of a taser on a restrained individual who is not a physical threat to anyone is disturbing, cruel and unusual punishment (remember that constitutional thing? though I know both sides, right and left, like to ignore certain parts of it). They were tasering him because he would not, probably could not, stand up(tasering someone can leave them incapacitated for 5 to 15 minutes). Oh, and these tasers that “do not cause fatalities” has killed over 100 people in the last seven years.

  • Les Slater

    John Bambenek #76

    “According to the Human Rights Watch and the “international community” the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel.”

    I wonder if he actually believes this. Just making such a statement not only puts his credibility in question, but also his ability to think.

  • John Bambenek

    A handcuffed can kick (and he was flailing around when they tried to drag him down the stairwell) and he can bite.

    This person was being a thug, picked a fight with police and lost. It’s just that simple.

    Sure, a taser, set high enough, can immobilize someone, but this guy was still screaming at the top of his longs encouraging a riot.

    And tasers ** by themseves ** have not caused fatalities. Every 100 of those people had drugs in their systems. I’ve taught a class on electrical injury at the University of Illinois, tasers figured large in the course. In each and every case of taser use that had a fatality, there was drug use also. No office is authorized to use a taser unless they have had one used on them first (a little twisted, sure, but that’s the rules).

    If he couldn’t stand up, he sure was able to run off his mouth like he could. And that doesn’t even deal with his flailing around in the stairwell.

  • John Bambenek


    I want you to count every condemnation by the new UN rights body, and you let me know the breakout by nation.

    (Hint: 100% are against Israel)

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    John they stunned him several times after he ceased to resist in any physical way and was handcuffed. They could have easily dragged him out, no problem. Instead they chose to taser him and make a scene. The only explanation for this is that they had taken it upon themselves to physically punish the insolent brat, which is completely inapropriate and illegal.

  • John Bambenek

    You’re right, they should have put him up in the nearest five-star hotel and spoon-fed him caviar.

    This man was a hero.

    Give him a medal.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Two police men, no not even, ONE police man is completely capable of dragging out a writhing handcuffed suspect – and he wasnt even writhing.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    No, you drag him out in disgrace, put him in lock up and charge him with something, instead of making him a martyr and allowing him to seek rewards. NO ONE is questioning the kid was out of line Bambi. Get over your hate man. You can hate the kid, even wish he recieve many years hard jail time for his act, and still condemn the actions of the police.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    No one is buying his stupid martyr act. His “look this your Patriot Act!” seems just as absurd to me and everyone else as it does to you.

  • John Bambenek

    I’m not hating anything.

    It’s you, who can’t have a discussion without moralizing your opponent that’s got an emotional stake in this game.

  • indy

    John Bambenek #80
    Let me just first state that I think tasers have their legitamate uses for police, but this was DEFINITELY not one of them!
    Did you even watch the video? Why are you trying to rationalize this obvious abuse of power and sadistic torture? I saw no kicking or biting or flailing in the stairwell, so unless you were there, I doubt you did either. The video showed him being dragged out on his knees, handcuffed. All eye-witness accounts state that he was limp and not be physically threatening to anyone when he was being tased repeatedly, only not following a command to stand. Why was it necessary for him to stand anyway? And since when does “runnig your mouth” mean you deserve to be tasered by pea-brained, obvoiusly compensating for something small,police? And since when does asking a cop a question, as one student who was questioning their unnecessary use of force, deserved to be threatened to also be “tased too.” Umm…illegal ASSUALT (threatening bodily harm)!!!, I am so glad it was caught on tape! That jerk (obviously compensating for something small) cop needs to lose his job. Like I said THUGS. And since you are such an apparent expert on taser use, can you please post the law that states that a cop can can threaten to taser a non-violent bystander or taser a passive resister (UCPD words not mine)? And who says the kid was not on drugs, maybe he was, do drug users deserve to be tasered for forgetting their ID card. He did scream out that he had a medical condition, and that “you just stunned me” after commands to stand.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    John, you want to talk about moralizing your opponent? Might I remind you of this select comment you made at post # 31 in this thread:


    Why do you hate America?

    Now please, don’t lecture me on moralizing my opponent.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    As for your hate of the “victim” I simply deduced it from your sarcastic comments in reference to the “victim”

    You’re right, they should have put him up in the nearest five-star hotel and spoon-fed him caviar.

    This man was a hero.

    Give him a medal.

    You obviously have a problem with this kid, and you seem to be having a hard time getting over it. In fact, the majority of your article is about the STUDENT, not the police. Hence the theme of your article “he picked a fight and lost.” No one’s questioning he picked a fight or that he lost. What we’re questioning is the inapropriate (and illegal) response of the police officers. And what on earth does the general misbehavior of other students, which you cite in your article, have to do with analyzing the actions of the police? From this, and your other recent article attacking college kids, I can only assume you have a vendetta against them. Instead of devoting yourself ignoring the police’s actions and attacking the student, you should be attacking both.

  • indy

    John Bambenek #31
    I love America, that is why this incident is so unaceptable to me. You seem to be the one who hates America, for rationalizing this use of such ridiculous force on an American. If you love a police state so much, move to North Korea. The communists might love your ideas.

  • Les Slater

    John Bambenek,

    Your #81, presumably in response to my #79 responding to your #76.

    You reply, “I want you to count every condemnation by the new UN rights body, and you let me know the breakout by nation. (Hint: 100% are against Israel)”

    Now, that’s has nothing to do with your claim in #76. “According to the Human Rights Watch and the ‘international community’ the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel.”

    Human Rights Watch is specific and the ‘international community’ is quite broad.

    I do not even think you could support the statement you made in #76. So, you rephrase it.

    So, the ‘new UN rights body’ doesn’t condemn anyone but Israel? 100%, no less? That’s nonsense.

    I went their site and there was much discussion of their activity, in Africa for instance, about dealing with human rights. Do you interpret that as condoning human rights violations?

    Now on Israel, they protested quite vehemently. Among other things, they felt threatened by Israeli aircraft approaching their positions, which necessitated them taking action in preparation for defensive fire at those aircraft.

    I presume I don’t have to tell you how many countries Human Rights Watch condemns for human rights violations. (Hint: more that 2)

  • John Bambenek

    Tasering this clown wasn’t police abuse…

    This is police abuse.

    UCLA killed my inner child.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    I don’t see what the difference is Bambi,

    They both picked fights, they both lost, and in both situations the police made it personal, and responded with the unecessary infliction of pain.

  • wow

    Wow, is it really doing you guys or anyone else any good to post online attacks at each other. By calling each other dumbasses and assholes, none of you are getting your point across. For those of you who think what happened was unfair, do something about, e-mail the UClA Acting Chancellor and express your concerns. It’s not doing you any good nor changing anyone else’s mind posting comments on this stupid blog. All of you, grow some class.

  • RedTard

    Someone above made an astute comment above about this touching some psychological nerves within people. I’m still not sure why it does or why I care what some idiot college student and asshole policemen did though.

    Perhaps is has to do with the social contract and the conservatives who’ve ‘bought into’ the current system don’t appreciate or empathize with those who go against it. Liberals, who believe the system is already really fucked up anyway, see what they want as well.

    I have to do lot’s of things I don’t like. I’d rather take the 5 tazers than pay my income taxes any quarter. If I’m willing to concede and work with the system with tangible assets and property then surely some idiot college student can show ID at the library we pay for and the loan we pay for and the security for his protection we pay for and the lawsuits that’ll end up coming about that we’ll pay for too.

    Secondly, it’s very frustrating how the media, old and new, approach things like this. Police officers are assaulted, harassed, have their tires slashed and property vandalized as thanks for their jobs all the time. Those incidents rarely make anything other than local news.

    I probably err on the side of downplaying incidents like this for the simple fact that I think they’re already being overplayed and probably contribute to the cycle of hatred, mistrust, and violence.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Well said Redtard. This really isn’t that big of an incident. A college kid acted spoiled and insolent and police responded with unnecessary force. Not much else to it. Both deserve some kind of discipline. It’s not like it was police torture – it was a heated situation, and it’s not like the kid assaulted the officers – he was just a public nussance. Like you said, it’s just hitting nerves. What’s hitting my nerves is people trying to justify all the actions of the police officers. 5 Taserings to an already handcuffed subject being held on his knees by TWO police officers, and who has ceased to resist, is just unnecessary and excessive.

  • Arsham

    I do wish nothing such as this never happens to your family (or are you seriously simpleminded enough to think it wont?), but if it does, would love to come back and read your blog!

    Cops can make mistakes, sure… but their mistakes pose a greater threat due to the nature of their responsibilities and power.

    However, looking at the video over and over again, I see only sadistic power-hungry savages dressed up in police clothes, trying to prove their authority and possibly make up for a F’ed up childhood! Embarrassing!

    It is our right to dispute those in power, or haven’t you heard? That is called freedom!

  • Anthony (Forensics)

    The police followed proper protocol. They had three options; engage in a hand to hand combat (which is frowned upon), use the club or taser the person. Police policy states the use of force one level higher than the disgruntled criminal. Basically, if you grab a police officer and/or throw your weight to the ground when one tries to remove you from the premises and you get tazed then so be it… admit you’re an idiot and move on.. this student is an instigator. If a Iranian puts their hand on an Iranian Police(militants) in Iran they would have had their hands cut off and/or hanged on the spot. People get tazered all the time, but it becomes a big deal when the person is from a nation that coddles terrorists.

  • gazelle

    israel needs tasering by the US for being in gaza illegally ,,,


  • Les Slater

    I think John has confirmed one of the two themes in my posts to this thread. From my #54, “The general observation I have made in following this thread is that when confronted with some situations, some ideas, some people genuinely lose their ability to think rationally.”

    John’s #76 presented a perfect opportunity to demonstrate this. My #78 posed this quite explicitly: “I wonder if he actually believes this. Just making such a statement not only puts his credibility in question, but also his ability to think.”

    So John comes back with #81, trying to squirm out of the dilemma.

    John has to answer just a few simple questions. Does he still believe that the statement he made in #76 to be true? Did he believe it when he made it? If not, what reason did he have to publish it? Did he preview the statement before hitting the publish button? Did he read it and understand it?

  • John Bambenek

    You make an assumption that I’m trying to engage in debate with you.

    I’ve long learned that the gibbering yard apes from the fever swamp who spam comments threads online aren’t the kind of people you can generally have a conversation with.

    So basically, I’ve been trolling you.

    Also, Taze him again.

  • Anonymous

    Bambi, #76:

    According to the Human Rights Watch and the “international community” the only human rights abusers are the United States and Israel.

    How about a reference, Bambi?

    Today, I see Angola, Uganda, Peru, Chile, Vietnam and Iran on the front page for rights violations. And the US and Israel. Now, do you think a beacon of freedom should be keeping such company? I thought the United States was founded on a recognition of human rights. To be systematically violating them in the name of “protecting the Murr’can people” should be beneath our nation’s dignity.

    In other words…

    Why do you so hate America, Bambi, that you would cheer on an administration set on destroying the nation’s founding principles?


  • Les Slater

    “So basically, I’ve been trolling you.”

    Wow, i’m impressed, and flattered. You mean your original post was nothing but a set-up, a trap, bait, just to bring me out?

    Whata wimp.

  • John Bambenek

    No, the original post was serious… I don’t give any serious thought to the commenters anymore.

    I have no inclination to debate anonymous cowards who think calling me Bambi is clever.

  • Les Slater

    “I have no inclination to debate anonymous cowards who think calling me Bambi is clever.”

    My real name is Les Slater and I have never called you Bambi.

    “I don’t give any serious thought to the commenters anymore.”

    Or to the comments, even if they are your own?

  • John Bambenek

    It should be pretty obvious I’m not talking my comments seriously either.

    And the anonymous coward crack was to the other crank who’s trolling BC for love.

  • Les Slater

    “It should be pretty obvious I’m not talking my comments seriously either.”

    I would rather you be honest and say you made a mistake.

    If you follow the threads in this post I think you will see the beginings of people starting to think, and be more honest. RedTard’s #95 is a good example.

    I think the discussion has done good.

    John, I’m not out to get you. Peace.

  • MCH

    “Whata wimp.”
    – Les Slater

    Hey, cut the personal shit.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    John, this thread has made some progress away from the original theme in your article, despite your continual denial. RJ, and Redtard, have both acknowledged that the police probably made at least some mistakes, and others have acknowledged that it’s a far cry from the torture some people make it out to be.

  • Les Slater

    On RedTard’s #95″

    You can see the thinking and feel the honesty.

  • Terrofried

    John Bambenek #79

    You wrote: “A handcuffed can kick (and he was flailing around when they tried to drag him down the stairwell)”

    Do you not realize that the only time we see him flailing around and kicking in the video is when he’s being tasered with electricity?

    You loose your credibility when you spin an incident that we’ve all seen for ourselves on video. You some how see him as fighting the police, when, contrary to your spin, the UCLA Assistant Chief of Police Jeff Young openly admits that the student was a “passive resister.”

    This is about the abuse of power! And you, Bambeneck, seem to me to be a pontentially dangerous man. You have power to write the truth, yet, you’ve spun for your readers a web of lies, in a poor attempt to justify the unjustifiable.

    Shame on the UCLA police! and shame on you!

  • zingzing

    john, you are a politics editor here. you need to:

    1) realize your responsibility for at least somewhat fair reporting, and for reporting all of the pertinent facts, especially when posting in the “news” section.

    2) stop making comments like, “”I don’t give any serious thought to the commenters anymore,” and “It should be pretty obvious I’m not talking my comments seriously either,” when you should be setting a better example for writers.

    3) get a book on comma usage.

    4) stop making your bias so obvious. you certainly hate the left and students.

    and what kind of class is “electrical injury” anyway?

  • Nancy

    Les #54: first, sorry I’m so late responding. Don’t know why you think I’m dangerous; please note I did not advocate ‘beating him to a pulp’ as you seem to have interpreted me; I said merely that ‘had this happened anywhere else in the world’ (I had in mind China or just about anywhere else outside the US/Canada or Western Europe)’…he would have been beaten to a pulp.’ That’s all. Please don’t read violent responses into my statements that I don’t put there; I’m quite capable of putting my own foot in my own mouth without any help from anybody here.

    Having said that, being labelled the ‘most dangerous’ person on the blogsite is quite an ego-boo. Thank you. Makes me feel like Marlene Dietrich, or something.

    BTW, he isn’t a ‘kid’ by anybody’s stretch of the imagination. Information shows that he’s a grown man with (apparently) a long list of similar episodes involving defiance of authority & troublemaking. Possibly a semiprofessional provocateur? I certainly wouldn’t be surprised. In any event, being violently uncooperative with police, even if only verbally, & inciting onlookers to join his own behavior or attack the police, is always a stupid thing to do, and a sure sign of deliberate provocation on his part, IMO.

    I work w/quite a few police troopers, all of whom have had taser training, which involved getting tasered yourself before “graduation”. All advised me that anybody who gets tasered & doesn’t collapse into a puddle of collagen & shaking fat & protein cells is probably on drugs of some kind, or is severely schizophrenic & hallucinatory, therefore considered extremely dangerous & dealt with accordingly.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    I am a police volunteer. Because I’m not an actual cop, even though I have the authority to detain or to arrest someone, I rarely detain anybody, and it is not the policy of the unit to make arrests – too damned much paperwork. Remember, I said I am a volunteer. I don’t get paid to spend time filling out forms.

    Nevertheless, looking at it from the point of view of a fellow who regularly wears a uniform and who carries a carbine and a pistol, attacking a person with tasers once he is handcuffed does seem a bit excessive.

    But a salaried cop here would not have discussed a great deal with the student. He would have hit him with immense force, kicked him out of the library, and then charged him with assault and resisting arrest. The attitude of the police here is that you have the right to do as you are told.

    And he might very well have been upheld in his action in a court of law.

  • Les Slater

    “…being labelled the ‘most dangerous’ person on the blogsite is quite an ego-boo. Thank you. Makes me feel like Marlene Dietrich, or something.”

    You’re welcome. You will note that I have never called you or anyone else on the blog, a fascist. I also thought I paid you another compliment, about your views on women’s rights.

    “please note I did not advocate ‘beating him to a pulp'”

    Nor did I accuse you of that. The incident under discussion, as bad as it was, in my opinion, was not the real issue I was trying to get at.

    I was trying to get at the thought process involved in coming to such conclusions. It was which side of the question that you came down on that was my key to lump you with some others. There were three columns in my consideration. You fit under the one with John, R.J., RedTard, others. It was his fault and got what he deserved.

    Another column had pleaseexcusetheinteruption in it. It was his fault but he did not deserve what happened.

    I think I was one of the few that empathized at all and tried to understand his perspective. That’s what my #33 was an attempt to establish.

    My argument was with column one, to point out that there was no basis for coming to the conclusion that he deserved the treatment he got, except, a non thinking emotion. I think I did a reasonable job with that.

    You dangerous? I have to be careful to not let my emotions finding myself in agreement with you sometimes. You talking about nuking the whole D.C. area may seem to some a good idea, but that’s dangerous talk. You may ask why you won out for the title over Ruvy for instance. Well, you don’t have to look very hard to see that sign on his back, “Mad Jew, Former JDL Street Fighter, Keep Your Distance”.

  • Matthew T. Sussman

    Remember that last scene in Ferris Bueller where he says “You’re still here? It’s over!”

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “You dangerous? I have to be careful to not let my emotions finding myself in agreement with you sometimes. You talking about nuking the whole D.C. area may seem to some a good idea, but that’s dangerous talk. You may ask why you won out for the title over Ruvy for instance. Well, you don’t have to look very hard to see that sign on his back, ‘Mad Jew, Former JDL Street Fighter, Keep Your Distance'”.

    You’re starting to sound incoherent, Les. Sit down and have a glass of water and try to relax.

  • zingzing

    i got it, ruvy… although you can tell nancy isn’t all that serious about bombing d.c… just venting a little. you, on the other hand, really may mean what you say, and you say some pretty violent things.

  • Nancy

    LOL – I got what I wanted when the voters nuked DC for me, in a sense. So, no…99.9999% of my bombast is just venting & hyperbole, and I suppose I should quit that post haste; it’s not very adult, but sometimes, dammit, the blood just boils … especially when discussing the venalities, idiocies, & criminalities of our ‘Honorable’ congressmaggots & administration.

    Gee … “dangerous” … Many thanks; that just tickles me pink. Usually I’m not considered dangerous unless I’m cooking. I do make some pretty deadly (awful) dinners, I’m told. Maybe in future I should just threaten to feed people….

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Another column had pleaseexcusetheinteruption in it. It was his fault but he did not deserve what happened.

    Not exactly. Not only was it his fault for getting tasered, he deserved getting tasered. He was obviously intentionally making a scene. A “semi-professional provocateur” as Nancy said. He was asking to be tasered and he got it.

    This, however, does not justify the police. As I said before, the “kid” was testing them and they failed. It’s not up to them to vent their fustration and anger by inflicting pain on already apprehended suspects, creating a larger scene, disrupting the library more, when they could easily drag him out like 999/1000 similar situations. He deserved to be punished, but in a civilized, not brutal and animalistic manner. Considering he was asking for a scene and got it, one might say his newly acquired martyrdom is a reward not a punishment. It only reaffirms his prior convictions and makes him more arrogant. The real punishment would have been to drag him off in shame and charge him with something in a court of law.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Or at least revoke his library priveleges FOREVER.

  • Anonymous

    Bambi –

    If you can’t stand the polis, stay out of the agora.


  • STM

    RedTard quoted and wrote:” … “As is too often the case, they’ve taken their little bit of power too far.”

    That’d be the typical liberal way of looking at it. From my perspective it appears that police do at least a pretty good job of demonstrating restraint given a very difficult job.”

    Perhaps you should have read the whole post instead of the first two lines before dribbling off at the mouth (keyboard, sorry) like a dickhead, accusing me of being a liberal. I’m not.

    I’m way left of that. Anyway, why use a new-fangled taser? America, you’re getting f.cking soft … a good old-fashioned smack in the mouth would have done the trick.

    And RedTard, you are indeed a dribbler of the highest order.

  • John Bambenek [

    I’m sorry! I was wrong!

    Can’t we all just get along?

  • Les Slater

    Hi John,

    Glad you’re still here.


  • Anonymous

    A policeman writing at Slashdot disagrees strongly with those of you who say the police actions were appropriate and justified.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem


    “i got it, ruvy… although you can tell nancy isn’t all that serious about bombing d.c… just venting a little. you, on the other hand, really may mean what you say, and you say some pretty violent things.”

    You’re right. I don’t generally vent all that much. I mean what I say. I’m not mad, as Les seems to think – I’m cold-blooded and I think like the terrorists I want to see exterminated.

    But as a uniformed police volunteer, I’m damned restrained in dealing with a whole nation of arguing and provocative shits like that kid at the library who got tasered. Defiance of cops is standard here, which is one of the reasons the salaried boys are so vicious.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem


    It’s interesting how many of the things you say I agree with. The American cops have too damned many toys. One good shot (with a fist!) in the mouth would done more than adequately in controlling the er “young man.”

    That and an arrest, an accusation of resisting arrest and assaulting a police officer – and if the charges were dropped, revoking his library privileges permanently at the school…

    More than adequate..

  • MT

    I think it’s fairly obvious that the student in this case broke the law by refusing to leave when asked. IIRC this is a belligerent trespass.
    It is possible (though I don’t know enough about the details of the law) that he could also be charged with resisting arrest despite the resistance being passive.

    I think it’s also fairly obvious that the police officers over-reacted (believe it or not authorities are humans too) and in doing so probably broke the law themselves.
    Tasers are ‘less than lethal’ weapons, but they can kill. It seems to me that someone passively not cooperating who is already in handcuffs is far from being enough of a threat to warrant tasering.

    Obviously the student brought a lot of this on himself. But the police also clearly over-reacted and made things far worse in the process. The fact is that if he had actively struck them I would be a proponent of the taser treatment. But once a subject is in handcuffs and not actively attacking different methods are called for. Aside from longer term injury how is this different from them beating him in the head with a club while in handcuffs and not attacking them? Both inflict pain, both could kill. As someone who has dealt with it passive resistance is a PITA to deal with. But this is not the way a civil society deals with it.

    The kid should be charged for his violation of the law. And the officers should be charged for theirs.

  • MT


    Your post on the kid diserving it but that not being an excuse for the police is dead on. Well put.

  • Anonymous Hero

    The kid didn’t deserve it… sure.

    His parents should have gotten it instead.

  • RJ Elliott

    It is possible (though I don’t know enough about the details of the law) that he could also be charged with resisting arrest despite the resistance being passive.

    Yup. “Resisting arrest w/o violence” is what it’s called…

  • Arch Conservative

    I’m all for police brutality when it comes to arrogant, ignorant, far left dumbasses thinking they’re smarter than everyone else and above the law. Fuck this kid and every other dirty fucking hippy who ever got roughed up by the police for acting like a jackass in public. I hope he doesn’t get a fucking dime and the police offers who lit his ass up get a promotion.

  • RedTard

    “I’m all for police brutality when it comes to arrogant, ignorant, far left dumbasses”

    Why? I certainly understand your frustration and hate the leftist ideology as much as anyone, but brutality towards there members only helps further their agenda.

  • zingzing

    “I’m all for police brutality when it comes to arrogant, ignorant, far left dumbasses…”

    and there you go. that’s archie all over. you are a leftie posing as a right-wing dumbass, aren’t you?

    if not, you need to stop posting such stupid shit.

  • Clavos

    I’m all for police brutality when it comes to arrogant, ignorant, far left dumbasses

    As Red says, that just serves their agenda…

    PLUS, once the cops are allowed to brutalize “arrogant, ignorant, far left dumbasses,” they won’t stop there; their next targets will be “arrogant, ignorant, far right dumbasses.”

    And then, some of your friends might get hurt, Arch…

  • Arch Conservative

    Well Clavos I have no problem with cops beating the shit out of arrogant, ignorant, know it all RIGHT WING jackasses either.

    Me? I don’t feel the need to yell and scream at police officers and then show flagrant disregard for their reasonable requests that I calm down so I will probably never get brutalized by a cop.

    But these leftist “idiots” with a cause think they can do whatever they want wherever they want and to whomever they want. Sort of like those idiot protestors at Columbia University last month. After seeing just how smug and disrespectful they were in their little interviews following the protest I would gladly smile at the thought of them being roughed up by the fuzz or by the minutemen.

  • Clavos

    You missed my point, Arch.

    If we let the cops beat the shit out of anybody, it won’t be long before they’re beating the shit out of everybody.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    It’s not the cops job to punish people for behaving badly. That’s why we have prisons and courts and execution chairs.

  • Arch Conservative

    “You missed my point, Arch.

    If we let the cops beat the shit out of anybody, it won’t be long before they’re beating the shit out of everybody.”

    Yes I got that point Clavos but I think you missed mine.

    Some people just deserve to have the shit beat out of them whether it’s by the cops or fellow civilians.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    It doesnt matter if the kid deserved it. It’s not the polices job. You sound like a raving lunatic Arch. Do you go out and beat up college kids for fun or do you just come in here and try and act like a big man to compensate for your small stature?

  • RJ Elliott

    “Some people just deserve to have the shit beat out of them”

    That’s pretty much a truism…but in general, it most definitely should NOT be the police who do it…if the cops in this case had beat this kid to a bloody pulp, I would not have defended them at all…

  • STM

    “If we let the cops beat the shit out of anybody, it won’t be long before they’re beating the shit out of everybody.”

    Aren’t they already doing that? And if not, why not?

    Harden up America. You’re getting soft.

  • Anon

    I’m amused ad how many people I’ve heard respond to this story by saying the police could have dragged the man out…

    If the man were to have been forcebly moved, there is a huge potential for loss of circulation, bumping, bruising, scratches/scrapes, damage to property (personal and college), dislocated limbs, on top of whatever willful damage the fellow might inflict upon the police.

    Electricity, in the doses used, causes no lasting damage and is a great reminder that the other guy has the upper hand.

    Tasers are great as a minimal escalation of force.

  • RJ Elliott

    Yeah, the next step after tasering in the escalation of police use of force would likely be hog-tying him and dragging his ass out of the building. Plenty of bruising, screaming, potential property damage, etc. involved in that…

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Anon #144..ok but that still doesnt explain using it 4 times after he had already ceased any kind of physical resistance.

  • Maureen

    Interesting that the cop who was using the taser on the student also shot a homeless man in a campus study hall three years ago, was recommended for dismissal following an alleged assault on fraternity row, and has been involved in several controversial incidents on campus according to an ABC news report. The guy sounds like a loose cannon that should be relieved of his duties.

  • Maureen

    John Bambenek –

    I find it interesting that you’ve posted here comments saying you were wrong and that you’re not taking your comments seriously, etc. So what IS your current position on this? You wrote the initial blurb – be responsible here instead of just treating this like a joke.

  • Maureen

    < <#144 — November 24, 2006 @ 09:32AM — Anon I'm amused ad how many people I've heard respond to this story by saying the police could have dragged the man out... If the man were to have been forcebly moved, there is a huge potential for loss of circulation, bumping, bruising, scratches/scrapes, damage to property (personal and college), dislocated limbs, on top of whatever willful damage the fellow might inflict upon the police. Electricity, in the doses used, causes no lasting damage and is a great reminder that the other guy has the upper hand.>>

    Anon, stop being ridiculous and do your homework. Dragging a person out of a location has never killed anyone. Tasers have. Comparing the two and then finding tasers the more benign method just shows your ignorance about tasers.

  • STM

    Like I say, what’s wrong with a good smack in the mouth?

    Tasers. Phffft. Anyone who has to use a taser because he can’t calm a person down or then place them under arrest the normal way shouldn’t be a cop. He had a duty of care to the young guy, no matter how pissed off he was getting.

    I believe this police officer is SOFT and should be drummed out of law enforcement.

    Tasers kill, BTW. A cut on the lip doesn’t.

  • http://xxx Freedom Lover

    It doesn’t take a “leftist” (I’m not one by any means) to object to brutal, fascist cops. While I’m certainly no proponent of Moslems and their terroristic allies coming to the U.S., it is also troubling to observe the authoritarianism which is a daily part of American life. What “crime” did the victim perpetrate to warrant his torture by the police at UCLA?
    I’m all for using maximum force against terrorists and fighting wars to win, but egregious brutality by the police within the United States is outrageous and must be opposed by force. If Americans continue to allow their Constitutional freedoms (e.g., First and Fourth Amendment rights violated by the goons in the instant case) to be eroded, we’ll approach the sort of authoritarianism we (rightfully) decry in such hellholes as North Korea and Saudi Arabia. The terror attacks of Sept. 11 2001 are no reason to quash the liberty of Americans. As we can see, the government is a lot better at roughing up college kids than finding and killing Bin Laden.

  • Rosie O

    Fuck the taser. Fuck all liberals. The police made the mistake of not using a Glock on the shit-head. End of story piss-heads.

  • lollercakes

    they should tase and arrest all kids with no ID and a backpack. LOL
    police officers are only allowed to tase when there is a threat. not saying that the popo’s were not threatened, but there should be a better justification to tase. A person can feel threatened without any external stimuli, therefore, a police officer can use his stun gun whenever he feels like it. thats precisely where the problem is.
    Furthermore, there have been instances where people died after being tased.