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“Two Dead In Is-ra-el!” No, Not As Cool As “Four Dead In Ohio”

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Maybe it’s because Israel frequently can do no wrong in my eyes that blinds me to the latest cause du jour of some Brits shot by Israel defense forces in 2003. But, to be honest, although the murders were awful — as most killings tend to be — I can think of more pressing things to be angry about.

When I was asked recently what I thought about it, that was my brutally frank answer. Regrettable, but life goes on. At the moment, I’m a lot more concerned about rapists and wife-beaters being let out of prison while fare-dodging gets taken much more seriously – but, hey, that’s just me. Maybe I’m underestimating the utter lawlessness, grievous bodily harm, and breach of human dignity caused by skipping a fare, but such is life in the hazy-crazy world of Ken Livingstone’s London.

Easy for you to say, was the response from my interlocutor. You wouldn’t be saying that if it’d been one of your own. By “one of my own,” I assume she was referring to Americans. To which I respond, actually, yes I would. And, yes I did.

Back in 2003 — man, what a bad year for “peace activists” in Israel! — a young American woman was crushed by Israeli tanks near a Palestinian camp when she tried to make them stop. Okay, kiddies, what can we learn from that? I think it’s something along the lines of, when tanks are heading toward you, you get the fuck out of the way! Young peace activist gets steamrolled by Israeli tank? Darwinism in action, if you ask me. When a heavy armored vehicle is about to descend on you, it’s generally ill-advised to re-enact Tiananmen Square. Far from being exorcised over this unfortunate bit of stupidity, I didn’t know whether to yawn or consider it unworthy of the effort of my jaw muscles. Next please …

One month later, a righteous dude posthumously known to the world as one Tom Hurndall was shot by an Israeli soldier while acting as a human shield for future suicide-bombers…er, Palestinian children. Then, a month after that (May 2003, if you’re taking notes), filmmaker James Miller was shot dead when he asked a group of Israeli soldiers if he could safely exit the dangerous Rafah camp. It is alleged that Miller waved a white flag to signal his lack of malfeasance. In Miller’s case, perhaps the Israeli soldier in question was far too trigger-happy, I’ll grant you that. But when you consider that many suicide bombers posed as peace activists, it’s easier to understand the soldier’s paranoia.

Maybe I’m just sick to death of the whole “Free Palestine” bullshit. I’ve no patience for it anymore. Arafat dicked President Clinton around (you’ll pardon the pun here), throwing away the biggest chance for a legitimate Palestinian state in the process, and in the freest elections those people have ever had, they usher Hamas into office. Lovely. But I suppose we could expect no less from the type of people who held spontaneous street parties the moment news of 9/11 reached them — those camels must have been pretty tired — and who carry on as if the world owes them a living.

Meanwhile, Jewish settlers in Gaza and the West Bank are being kicked out of their homes to make way for a people who have made it clear that they’re not serious about peace. Who never were serious about peace and who will, for all I know, never be serious about peace. Do the world’s hearts bleed for them? Do you have a bridge you want to sell me?

When Iran drops its nuclear bomb — and they will because America is reeling from setbacks in Iraq and the UN/EU is too chickenshit to do anything serious about it — it will probably have the words “FREE PALESTINE” emblazoned across it. In that funky Arabic script, of course. Tehran will tell us it said “From Iran, With Love.” Signed by Cindy Sheehan.

But I digress. I suppose the furor over the killings is justified. I simply maintain that I still have greater concerns to get worked up over.

I suppose it’s asking too much for an Israeli tank to run over Justin Raimondo?

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About Nightdragon

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Tom Hurndall was shot by an Israeli soldier while acting as a human shield for future suicide-bombers … er, Palestinian children.

    Racist and bigoted you are, and both stem from deep ignorance. But it seems it’s OK to condemn young children as terrorists. Yup! you sure is gonna solve our problems, aintcha?

  • zingzing

    i don’t think he’s out to save our problems. i think he’s just trying to look like the biggest dickhead he can while he dodges some fares on the underground, the tube, the fucking metro, whatever they call it where he is. [Edited] i can’t really tell.

  • zingzing

    solve. that’s solve. yeah, first sentence. solve our problems.

  • Jeff

    Quote:

    “One month later, a righteous dude posthumously known to the world as one Tom Hurndall was shot by an Israeli soldier while acting as a human shield for future suicide-bombers … er, Palestinian children.”

    Just because it’s worth repeating: you ARE a racist and you ARE a bigot. And for what it’s worth, you make me physically ill.

    May something truly horrible happen to you [Edited].

  • http://gratefuldread.net NR Davis

    Praying for you, Mr. Manning.

  • zingzing

    damn. somebody’s got to cut him some slack. at least he’s honest. that one little palestinian children comment is nasty, but not anything we haven’t heard before from much more powerful (read: loud) people. he’s just repeating what he hears. like a parrot.

    but he does seem to be honest, and this is his opinion and all that nonsense. jeff, your wish from something horrible to happen to him is no better than his racist comments. i suppose.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    So he’s an out of the closet bigot. Don’t make him or his retarded arguments any better.

  • zingzing

    no… certainly not. still, shouldn’t wish him dead. that was going a bit far.

    i’m just feeling… i dunno. people get attacked too easily around here. dickhead, yes. worthy of a “horrible” death or whatever, nah. he’s no worse than a BUNCH of people around here. just look at any of the immigration threads around here.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Oh that, yes I agree. I wish him nothing but perhaps enlightenment.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    MEM – you got ‘em all fired up Mark!

    Just because the palestinians elected a terrorist org to run their country doesn’t mean their kids are future terrorists Mark.

    HA!

    Just because their people dance in the streets after ours are killed doesn’t mean their kids are future terrorists Mark!

    HA!

    Just because some people don’t understand the law of gross tonnage when it comes to tanks doesn’t mean they should receive a Darwin award!

    HA!

    All that means is you’re a bigot! Remember that! Oh…and a racist too! and a parrot too!

    HA!

    Something tells me that some people will get physically ill any time they have to use their brains…so I won’t hold that one against you.

    HA!

    You’re so insensitive…..WAAAAAAAAAAAA!

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Andy came in to back him up, this only confirms what I said.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Something tells me that some people will get physically ill any time they have to use their brains…so I won’t hold that one against you.

    I have to use my brain to determine that all Palestinian children are going to grow up to be suicide bombers? That’s a new one.

  • Jeff

    Who said anything about death? There are a lot of truly horrible things I can think of that don’t involve dying.

    Like sharing a branch of Andy Marsh’s family tree for example.

  • zingzing

    yep! every single last one of them mother fuckers is going to blow your mother’s house up. they are all going to be brainless enough to strap a bomb around their midsection and go to paradise where the virgins are, because, god knows, there’s nothing like a virgin fer havin’ sex with! waht happens when all the virgins have had sex? you got no stinking virgins left! should have blown up that guy’s mother’s house before we fucked all the virgins! hahaha! get your third rate virgin over here, you fucking dumbasses!

    no, not all palestinians are going to grow up to blow up. damn. pigs.

  • zingzing

    jeff, true. sorry. nevermind. andy marsh just made the original poster look even worse. so… whatever.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Well gentlemen, you seem to have sunk to a new low. Jeliel³, Zingzing, Jeff, the three of you just seem to be unable to recognize truth when it slaps you in the face.

    But then again, you rely on such sources for “news” as the BBC, the CBC, CNN and the other trash laden outlets. No surprise here. Garbage in, garbage out.

    I won’t waste my efforts on telling the truth to fools. But unlike you do to others, I will not wish you evil.

    MEM, like Ms. Davis, I pray for you and applaud you for your remarks. Andy, Mike, we don’t always agree, but here we do.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Of course, we in America are guilty of these things, too. Look at all the furor we made over the antics of Dylan Harris and Eric Klebold, those two kids at Columbine High School who shot up all the future Abortion Clinic bombers…er, Christian children.

  • zingzing

    hey ruvy, why don’t you read the comments? i never wished anyone harm. only one person did, and he pretty well took that comment back (to a degree). we all know your idea of palestinians. but to say that ALL palestinian children are going to grow up to be suicide bombers IS REALLY FUCKING DUMB. i hope you can agree to that, or else you’re just being a racist pig. and i don’t think you’re a racist pig, just a bit clouded in your judgement by the war you see.

  • zingzing

    ruvy–this is not a one-sided war, and your fellow israelites are just as guilty as the palestinians. both sides spread racial and religious hate and war, so you both need to realize that you are being stupid and give it up. of course neither one of you will do that. why? oh, you tell me.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    All right Zingzing, you were being relatively nice. But the fact of the matter, whether you like it or not, is that Arab kids here get a heavy dose of indoctrination to kill Jews from the time they can communicate.

    I don’t want to see Arab kids as future killers, but given the record of terror and the pressure they and their parents are under from the terrorist mobs in Arab controlled territory, it is hard not to see them that way.

    And do me a favor – use the proper terminology! There are no “Israelites” in English! There are Jews and Israelis.

  • zingzing

    jews get a heavy indoctrination against arabs as well. obviously. want proof? look in a mirror.

    sure, have your favor. i’m listening to reggae today, forgive me. actually, i’m not. that’s just a fucking excuse.

    ok–to show you how your attitude looks to me, have an example from america. i’m reading some book by tom wolfe called bonfire of the vanities (it’s good so far).

    there’s a white guy (for the sake of the example, the white guy represents you). he’s standing by a telephone at the edge of an alley with his little yipper dog in a big old raincoat and he sees a young black man (this represents the palestinian) approaching from across the street. he gets “naturally” scared. the black man walks right by him. sure, sometimes black people mug/murder/etc white people. but not all do, not even most, just a tiny percentage. if you (as a white man) were to get scared every time you saw a black man, you would not only be stupid, paranoid and constantly changing your underwear, you would be a racist who was changing his underwear all the time.

    you can choose to live your life, and judge other people, by what the evil people in the world do. that’s your choice. i don’t care. live a shitty life, always afraid, hating children. do it. it’s no skin off of anyone else’s back until either your goddamn country or that other goddamn country start nuking us all. right now, i don’t give a fuck. but, i tell you, if your bullshit invades on my bullshit, i’ll have some shit to dump back in your lap.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Wake up, [Edited]. I’m not afraid of Arabs and I don’t hate them. But THEIR leaders want me to die and I’m not turning the other cheek for them or anyone else.

    If you want to buy the crap the Arab agitprop machine feeds you, it’s your priilege, but don’t pass it my way. Matza is hard enough to digest without your bullshit added to it.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Ruvy, do you think the Palestinians woke up one day and said: “We need to hate someone, lets hate the jews next door” When there’s escalation of this level, its for a reason.

    Personaly I don’t care anymore. The Jews and Palestinians should just give up and accept that neither side will ever give in to the other’s demands. Slice up the country and live in peace and appart. That way, the terror factory will get shut down. Both peoples are wrong but no one wants to admit it and take the finger off the triger.

    Either that or just lauch the missiles and lets end it for good. Because that’s the only way it can end with the established mindset, mutualy assured destruction. Then when the dust clears, the Evangelicals will clean the place up and prepare for the second comming.

    All this religious bullshit over imaginary lines drawn in the sand.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Whoa, Ruvy. Whoa.

    If Zing was “buying the crap that the Arab agitprop machine feeds him,” as you say, he would be putting all of the blame on Israel. He seemed to me to divide it equally.

    Dogma is a dangerous thing.

  • zingzing

    okay ruvy, i call your bullshit. which is it? all palestinian children are suicide bombers? or “it’s just their leaders!” it’s one or the other. make your damn choice.

    you’re just as guilty as anyone, so don’t call me brain-dead. wake up! it’s your fault too!

    your holier-than-thou (especially-you-arab) crap is getting so damn tiresome. if the whole region, idiotic warmongering people and all, could be swallowed up by a black hole, i’d fucking love it. it’s the most idiotic, dangerous thing happening on this planet, and neither of you realise how stupid you look.

    if that’s “buy[ing] the crap the Arab agitprop machine feeds” me, then consider me full.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    What is tiresome for me in all of this, is that for all of you, this is just an abstraction. I see real Arab kids every day, real Arab mothers every day, real Arab fathers. For me these are people, not abstractions in propaganda.

    They come to the supermarket and complain because of all the products that are not for sale during Passover that they like. They could go to an Arab minimarket, but they like the cheaper prices and wider vazriety available at the Israeli supermarket.

    They will not blow up anybody because of that though.

    No.

    Every day the Arab propaganda machine pushes its kill the Jews message, and its “suicide to kill Jews is honorable death” message. Buy none of you will even admit to that without insisting that “it’s also your fault.”

    Bullshit!!

    I’m truly tired of your self-righteous ignorance as you repeat the moral equivalence arguments trotted out by the airheads on your media.

    Hatred of Arabs is not taught in our schools. Writing inciting statements about Arabs is punishable in this country as incitement to hatred. And this law is enforced on Jews – but not on Arabs. You may not like that fact, or know that fact, or want to admit to that fact, and you are all the stupider for it.

    Write about what you know – like racial hatred in America – and stay away from what you don’t know – like life in Israel.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Write about what you know – like racial hatred in America – and stay away from what you don’t know – like life in Israel.

    You know, I try to be fair in these discussions, Ruvy; I think if you don’t agree with me on anything else you can agree with me on that.

    So out of a concern for fairness, I’m asking you this question seriously and straightly: does your admonishment, essentialy “shut up about life in Israel unless you live in Israel,” apply to Mark Edward Manning too? And to Andy Marsh? They happen to agree with you, but of course they don’t know anything more about life in Israel than I do. Or than Zingzing does.

    In other words, does your admonishment apply to EVERYONE who writes about Israel without experience of it? Or just to those who disagree with you?

  • zingzing

    ruvy–most everything you say may be true, but it doesn’t excuse you. you trot out your side’s propaganda like you’re just a bunch of victims. bullshit. israel doesn’t deserve everything it gets, but you did kind of bully your way in there, and you keep bullying your way around there to this day. you are reactionaries. you know as well as i do that your country is guilty of terrible things.

    arabs are no better. i see the whole region as a bunch of bickering fuckheads without a clue as to what they are doing. you are children, fighting over who gets to play in the sandbox. stop it. go to your room.

    of course, america is no better. the whole world is fucked. i can’t believe you defend your country in the righteous manner that you do. arabs attacked my country too. do you see me getting all religiously worked up, spouting hatred?

    and don’t gimme that “abstraction” crap. because of israel, because of the arabs, we are all wrapped up in this crap. should things get worse (which they probably will), i’m in lots of danger of being drafted. i don’t want to fight in this stupid, bullshit war.

  • zingzing

    and, oh yeah, which is it: every palestinian child, or their leaders?

    answer questions.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Mike,

    It strikes me that MEM was sick and tired of British or American media whining incessantly about how awful the Israelis are to Arabs – that there were more important things to be covered, and he is disgusted with what he regards as the ignorance stupidity of Bitish and American media.

    MEM does not pretend to know about life in this country. He does know about what the airheads in your media rag on about, and it appears to tire him. Andy Marsh was agreeing with him.

    What I am saying is that if you really want to write about this country, at least provide some intelligent source of informaion as your basis. I try to do this, BoP tries to do this, and even though I may not agree with them, Dave Nalle and Chromatius certainly try to do this.

  • zingzing

    you gloss over everything, don’t you ruvy? …it’s fucking pointless.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Zingzing, if you go to my name here and look the 1300 comments I have made since joining BlogCritics, you’ll see I rarely gloss over anything. Have fun.

  • zingzing

    you just did it again.

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    [Opens Encyclopedia]
    [Looks up Vicious Circularity]
    [Closes Encyclopedia]
    [Leaves to watch CSI]

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Jeliel³, Zingzing, Jeff and all other lefty [Edited]: Don’t worry. One day soon I will die. Because our Lords Temporal here in Britain have decided that anti-terror laws breach “human rights.” So, carte-blanche for Islamic militants to blow me up! It’ll happen one fine day …

    Ruvy, don’t forget about Slate.com, The Daily Kos and The Nation as other fine trash-touting sources these people get their info from.

  • zingzing

    mmm… the right is paranoid.

  • http://parodieslost.typepad.com Mark Schannon

    My only regret at Mark’s article is the tone, demeaning the deaths of innocents. I understand emotionally why he feels that way, but it does undercut his otherwise solid analysis.

    Yes, Israel was a state created by the West. So was Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, and others–just 20 years earlier. In most cases, local tribes in the majority were put under the heel of smaller tribes. Consider the Hashemite thugs in Jordan, which was and continues to be majority Palestinian.

    And I understand Ruvy’s anger at people who’ve never been there offering opinions. I’ve heard that from Israelis before. I think it’s a function of living under a death threat your entire life. We have no idea what that does to your psyche. I don’t agree with Ruvy on this one, but I appreciate and understand it.

    But most of all, I wonder about the extent of the anger and outrage directed at Israelis.

    The Saudis are some of the greatest supporters of terrorism in the world–where’s the outrage? The arab states kept the Palestinians from creating their own state from 1948-1967, keeping them in camps and bondage–where’s the outrage?

    Look at the mass slaughter that never seems to end in Africa–where’s the outrage?

    Anti-Semitism and Naziism are on the rise in Europe–where’s the outrage?

    As an agnostic Jew, I can’t help but be a little paranoid…but until people start showing the same degree of outrage for other atrocities going on around the world, I can’t help but think that their anger towards Israel has a strong anti-semetic component.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    mmm… the right is paranoid.

    You really like that word a lot, don’t you? That, and “xenophobic”. You really are getting to sound like a broken record.

  • zingzing

    richard-i don’t think i’ve ever used the word xenophobic… maybe you’ve been listening to another record… how else would you describe the right’s “close down the borders! tap our phones! kill all arabs!” bullshit? it’s paranoia! you think that if we don’t shut down and start shooting, we’re all going to die. don’t you understand that by doing just that, we probably will? maybe i’m paranoid too…

    mark–“I can’t help but think that their anger towards Israel has a strong anti-semetic component.”

    i’m only discussing israel here. i attack and defend all sorts of other things in other places. on this thread, israel came up. those other things you mention are terrible things. you know people attack the saudis for their support of terrorists. don’t give us that crap. and the african genocides? oh no, no bad word has ever been said against GENOCIDE! and the rise of anti-semitism and nazism in europe? never been mentioned… come on now.

    strong anti-semtism… fuck off. i have no problems with jews. i have problems with people in israel contributing to the problem while holding their palms out, opening their eyes blankly and saying “who me?”

    that doesn’t fly.

  • sr

    SIR EDWARD MANNING. I call you sir because of your excellent blog. BRAVO MARK. As always, senor Ruvy as it right. For the [Edited] liberals reading this, your desire is to weaken Israel and the US. CNN is your god and blind faith you follow. [Edited] Most of you [Edited] would slam Rush Limbaugh. (Im using this as a metaphor) Ask a liberal why they hate Rush. We’ll We’ll We’ll ya know CNN Says he’s mean spirted and ya know like againt diversity and We’ll you know he’s fat. This is the typical liberal stance. Don’t confuse me with the facts. If Israel listened to any of your feel good wimp’y shit they would have been a dot in history. Ruvy, unlike me is always the gentlemen. Im sure as you can tell this commenter is not. Im ignorant, stupid and rude. If you choose to comment back to me feel free. SIR RUVY AND SIR MARK. JOB WELL DONE. G-D BLESS ISRAEL AND GOD BLESS AMERICA [Edited] For me when the shit hit’s the preverbeal fan I hope to be in Israel.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    i don’t think i’ve ever used the word xenophobic… maybe you’ve been listening to another record

    Sorry, that’s Victor’s favorite word. As for “paranoid” – twice in this thread (21, 36), three times in “Crossing the Border” (22-twice, 85), etc. The point being it becomes an intellectual crutch, a substitute for cogent reasoning. Plus it’s misleading.

    Fear is not a bad thing. It’s the emotional equivalent of physical pain, both of which have important self-preservational value. Saying that someone is “paranoid” makes it sound as though you think he has some kind of mental disease, when in reality you only question whether his fear is justified or not.

    The left loves to engage in this kind of malevolent irrationality. “Xenophobic” is another perfect example. The natural tendency to gravitate toward, and feel comfortable with, one’s own kind is made to sound like some pathological state!

    And lastly, it’s inconsistent. Those who throw around the accusation of xenophobia, are generally the same people who pretend to be accepting of all types of diversity. But one aspect of human personality where there exist diverse types is in regard to what kinds of associations one feels comfortable with. Some people feel more attracted to the opposite sex, some to the same sex. And so we are supposed to be accepting of homosexuality as well as of heterosexuality. But even though some people feel equally comfortable around all races of people, while others would prefer to be around other members of their own ethnicity, we are only supposed to be accepting of the former, while expressing the vilest of condemnatory vituperation towards the latter!

  • Joey

    Walk the walk, then you can talk the talk.

    It’s easy to fault the Israeli’s and the Arabs… sitting in front of the screen and tippy typing away on your keyboards all the livelong day.

    Go there… go to the Mid-east and experience what you will will NEVER experience in America, from both sides of the issue.

    Thane tippy-type away ’til your hearts content.

    Until then you have only opinions….. and opinions are spoken from people who have no authority (or from people who have no authority on any given subject). Experience speaks volumns. Ninty nine point nine percent 99.9% of the folks responding to this thread fit that category.

    I am the .1% that can speak from experience… and I can’t say a word in regard for either side.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Been there, done that…now what?

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    Joey your whole argument is pure sophistry. DQ

  • http://jeliel3.blogspot.com JELIEL³

    #35
    Mark Edward Manning

    As opposed to FauxNews? ExposetheLeft.com? MichelleMalkin.com? LGF.com? Gimme a break. I get my info from everywhere and I form my own opinions. My opinions are not owned by FauxNews or any other pandering media outlet.

    It’s people like you, those that keep drawing lines in the sand, that keep the world in a state such as it is. Because keep in mind that all the terror organisations are conservatives from different cultures, but rightwingers anyway. In other words, close minded, dogmatic and inflexible. My way or the highway and all that black and white fundie crap.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    People who are not honest, who have no moral spine, who have been bought out to betray their own nation, do stupid things to get themselves in trouble.

    ISM, the group from which Rachel Corrie and Tom Hurndall came, is not a pack of “peace activists” [Edited] They should never have been allowed on Israeli soil. They should have been thrown out lock, stock and runny nose, and beaten bloody for entering closed military zones.

    That they weren’t is not indicative of Israel being a democracy – it is indicative of a bought out pack of traitors at the top, a bunch of unJewish pigs unwilling to defend their own country because of all the dollars and euros stuck in their pockets by the White House, Brussels and the Vatican.

    This bought out pack of traitors, with names like Sharon, Peres, Olmert, Halutz, Mazuz, all allowed and continue to allow the [Edited] groupies to group themselves here relatively unmolested, considering that their goal is the destruction of Jewish Israel and the erection of Arab Palestine. It was by their permission that the ISM was able to try to block a military operation of the IDF when they did. So the fault for their being there belongs on the head of the Israeli government of the day, the nearly dead Ariel Sharon.

    [Edited]

    Rachel Corrie worked with and for terrorists and she got the reward she richly deserved. [Edited]

    I’m saying this as a father responsible for raising children who DO know the difference between good and evil – so unlike Rachel Corrie OR her parents.

    Michael Hurndall deserved to be shot. He oughtn’t have been in Israel in the first place. He got away alive, and shouldn’t have. Terrorists and their supporters deserve to die. Period.

    Sometimes justice IS served.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Andy Marsh: “MEM – you got ‘em all fired up Mark!”

    Yep, Andy, it’s not only a pleasure but a duty to expose the latent anti-Semitism in these leftist airheads.

    [Edited]

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Ruvy: “I don’t want to see Arab kids as future killers, but given the record of terror and the pressure they and their parents are under from the terrorist mobs in Arab controlled territory, it is hard not to see them that way.”

    Believe or not, I wish I could say the same about the future of the Palestinian people – that they have some glimmer of hope. Nothing would make me happier than to witness a Palestinian Authority that encompasses pride and peace. They’ve got the pride bit down pat, but the peace bit remains as elusive as ever.

    By the way, don’t you love how these Cindy Sheehan worshippers toss around the words “racist” and “bigoted” when they are never brought to account for their own bigotry, a.k.a. obvious anti-Semitism.

    I have always been a huge supporter of Israel. I always will be. It doesn’t mean I hate the Palestinians with a passion. It may appear that way, but it’s not true. I just wish they’d grow up and accept some responsibility and stop fighting fire with more fire. And given contemporary events/trends, they deserve the venomous attitude with which I wrote about them here.

    P.S. By the way, where the hell’s Shark when you need him? Hello, SHARKIE?! Aren’t you going to tell me to go fuck myself as always? Don’t disappoint me!

  • Dave Nalle

    For what it’s worth, Ruvy. I see Rachel Corrie and Michael Hurdnall as being victims as much as anyone. They were indoctrinated form an early age by a massive engine of leftist distortion which totally skewed their perception of reality and drove them to the fanaticism which led to their deaths. They are mainly at fault for being weakminded and easily led. I put the bulk of the blame on the propagandists and deceivers who effectively put them infront of the guns and under the tank treads.

    Dave

  • Jeff

    Ruvy, in response to post #16 – please see post #4.

    Have a great day.

  • Jeff

    Dave, you are such a hypocrite.

    I suppose that the tank driver is a real patriot though, right? Probably the only thing more patriotic than crushing an unarmed civilian beneath a tank is destroying the homes of the brothers, sisters, children, and cousins of “known terrorists” in the facist fantasy land you and Ruvy and Andy live in.

    I don’t suppose you see people who are afflicted by poverty, neglect, and abuse in the United States as victims when they rob a liquor store though, do you? Or are they victims of the leftist welfare state?

    Yes, that’s it! Poor minorities are the victims of the leftist welfare state! The large increase in poverty, homelessness, and crime during the smirking chimp’s tenure couldn’t *possibly* have anything to do with the systematic underming of EEO laws, underfunding of law enforcement, and generally dismissive tone of the current majority party towards racial and ethnic minorities, right?

    Please.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Dave Nalle: “I see Rachel Corrie and Michael Hurdnall as being victims as much as anyone. They were indoctrinated from an early age by a massive engine of leftist distortion which totally skewed their perception of reality and drove them to the fanaticism which led to their deaths. They are mainly at fault for being weakminded and easily led.”

    Excellent point, Dave. A thought I failed to consider. Very true.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Jeff: “the smirking chimp’s tenure

    And you dare to talk about hypocrisy when it comes to insulting, bad-mouthing or mislabelling people, Jeff? Typical liberal, hypocrisy – much like free speech – is a one-way street with you.

    Oh, and genius? When you rob a liquor store, it’s a fucking crime and should always be punished as such. And yes, the welfare state does create criminals because it does nada to teach them self-reliance. Hence, let’s rob the liquor store so’s I can af-foad mah bling-bling!

    Later, homey.

  • http://elvirablack.blogspot.com/ Elvira Black

    Hmmm….it’s amazing how amnesia can set in so fast.

    Anyone remember a little thing called the Muslim cartoon controversy and the havoc it wreaked and the death and destruction that were unleashed on a world-wide basis? Are these the kind of folks you feel all warm and fuzzy about? Sheesh.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    RUVY: Please get a grip of your comments so as to reduce my workload and your increasingly offensive remarks.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Chris, I call it like see it. Somtimes the truth is damned offensive – and PC types have a very hard time dealing with that. So they haul out names like fascist and bigot, words they scarcely understand. In all of this, I have eschewed personal attacks on any individual or on any ethnic group on this list. If you want to deal with offensive remarks, try this on for size, from our good friend, Jeff..

    “Just because it’s worth repeating: you ARE a racist and you ARE a bigot. And for what it’s worth, you make me physically ill.

    May something truly horrible happen to you, you sick fuck.”

    That, young man, is a personal attack, first directed at the author of this article, and then at me.

    If you wish to keep this thread free of personal attacks, you have a good 45 minutes work (minimum) analyzing them and pulling them out from all of the comments posted to this article.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Just for good measure, Chris, maybe you would like to have the lawyer here explain why Jeff should get a free pass in handing out personal attacks and why the truth – which I have written above – should be censored.

    [Ruvy: you would first need to go way and learn that your opinions and the truth are not necessarily the same thing. Comments Editor]

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle

    dears

    i think rachel and tom are fearless and selfless people – they live – in the shadow of the tank and the APC.

    this is not an internal israeli matter. it is international, global.

    tom and rachel were idealist children and suffered for it. it was their fate to die and live – yes they deserved it.

    the stupidity of the bedouin in the APC or the bulldozer operator, is no different from the innocence of the operators in abu ghraib, just following orders, of a sharon, rumsfeldt or a bush.

    best

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Well, I’m starting here and now, Ruvy. All remarks that revolt my sense of decency are going to disappear fom this column and I shall be watching it very carefully for further hate-inducing comments.

    Complaints can be sent through the usual channels!

    Here’s a quote from another source off the front page of aGoogle search on her name, to allow a little contrast:

    History: After Rachel Corrie was killed in the Gaza Strip in 2003 while nonviolently protecting the home of a Palestinian pharmacist and accountant and their families from demolition, the Corrie family, with the devoted support of Olympia community members and supporters across the country, established the Rachel Corrie Foundation for Peace and Justice, a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, that continues the work Rachel began and hoped to accomplish. One of the Foundation’s dreams, Peace Works–an annual memorial lecture/conference addressing a significant justice and peace issue–will come to fruition in April 2006.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Dave,

    Thre are two people who have commented on this article who I will not pick a fight with. You and Gazelle. You grew up in the neighborhood, and Gazelle is a distant neighbor who seems to understand this part of the world and much of its culture very well. I may not always agree with you, but I’m not picking any fights.

    You wrote,

    “I see Rachel Corrie and Michael Hurndall as being victims as much as anyone. They were indoctrinated from an early age by a massive engine of leftist distortion…They are mainly at fault for being weakminded and easily led….”

    Twenty years ago, I would agreed with the source of the propaganda. But these days, it is the Wahhabi influenced Arabs who brainwashed these kids. They may have thrown in the typical PC garbage and buzzwords, but the base concepts and ideas, using non-Moslems as shields etc. come from the Wahhabi and their spoor, the Moslem Brotherhood.

    And speaking as a leftist myself, I have to say that there are very few leftists at all in this part of the world. Being a true leftist – one who believes in social equity and using society to achieve it – is a very lonely spot these days. Much that passes for “left wing” propaganda or ideology is just recycled PC trash and buzzwords.

    Look at it this way. How many Democrats in the States or Labour MP’s in the UK send their kids to American public schools or the British equivalent thereof?

    You are right about being a sheeple. It can be fatal.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy: you are not any kind of leftist that I can recognise. Maybe you could explain a bit about that? You sound like a right wing extremist from where I sit…

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle

    whew! ruvy, thats kind of you. i’ll visit you when i do but i’ll have to enter from jordan… :)

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Chris, I haven’t called you on censorship until now, but now I am. This goes way beyond issues of personal attacks. Now, in your role as Comments Editor, you have chosen to whitewash a woman who was a collaborator with terrorists and murderers, and to ignore personal attacks upon the writer of this article.

    From Comment #4 – directed at Mark Manning.

    “Just because it’s worth repeating: you ARE a racist and you ARE a bigot. And for what it’s worth, you make me physically ill.

    May something truly horrible happen to you, you sick fuck.”

    This remains in the comment section, along with Comment #50:

    “Ruvy, in response to post #16 – please see post #4.

    Have a great day.”

    Apparently you cannot separate between the two roles when something offends your own political sensibilities.

    “ISM, the group from which Rachel Corrie and Tom Hurndall came, is not a pack of ‘peace activists’ [Edited]”

    From Comment #46. My description of the ISM as a bunch or terror groupies – which they are – was edited out the comment. As was this, the heart of the point of what I had to say

    This statement “I’ll say this ONCE so it is clear. RACHEL CORRIE DESERVED TO DIE. The self righteous pigs who raised her deserve condemnation, not pity. {Those of you who waste your rantings supporting the spoiled little bitch and her parents are as stupid as she was, and as evil as she was, except that you’re not so stupid to actually join the terrorists’ mosh pit.}”

    This, as comments editor, Mr. Rose, you chose to edit out.

    The facts are that Rachel Corrie deliberately endangered the lives of soldiers trying to carry out a military operation in hostile territory. She died in an accident, but she deserved what came her way.

    If you want to whitewash someone who is terrorist running dog that is your choice, but it will not be taken lying down. She is not a writer here.

    The portion of my quote above that is bracketed could arguably been construed as a personal attack, but the remainder was an editorial opinion on public figures.

    Your response to this has been: Well, I’m starting here and now, Ruvy. All remarks that revolt my sense of decency are going to disappear fom this column and I shall be watching it very carefully for further hate-inducing comments.

    Complaints can be sent through the usual channels! From Comment #59.

    In short, you’ve chosen to use your role as Comments Editor to politically censor the comments here. And I’m complaining, formally. Here, now, and to the owner of the list.

    I’m formally requesting of the owner that he direct the Comments Editor to edit comments for personal attacks, and not for political content.

  • troll

    kudos to MEM for spewing the best trolling post of the day – thanks for breakfast…yum

    Ruvy – once more I find the anti-Semitic (and anti-humanist) content in your remarks distressing

    I understand that you just finished the underhanded celebration of one of the more bloodthirsty acts of a vengeful G-d (my view of the passover)…but talking about how other Semites and their naive supporters deserve to be killed – ?

    I suggest that you get your testosterone back under control – put the brakes on the unproductive vitriolic bitching – and get on with seeking and discussing possible solutions

    take your backsliding hate-speech off my bridge

    troll

  • gonzo marx

    /sigh

    so much hatred, so little Understanding or even Comprehension…

    hell, i’d settle for some manners and a touch of Empathy…

    for the original Poster, you are of course entitled to your Opinion…and all that you have spewed remains just that….no more, no less

    your position on how little you value human beings versus your political agenda is quite telling…almost a textbook example…

    but my heart breaks over reading some of Ruvy’s commentary here

    no unarmed person, acting from Conscience, no matter which side of an Issue they are on….”deserves” to die , crushed under a metal tread

    in my own assessment and Opinion, any who might suggest such are NO better than that person on the other side who cheers when Innocents are killed and also says “they deserved it”

    armed conflict, and DEfense are one thing, and quite Ethical in implementation at times…the killing of unarmed non-combatants is wrong…cheering it is wrong

    and any who do so immediately get their Humanity Certification revoked…thus falling into the category of raving lunatics who are part of the Problem, and not any part of a Solution

    your mileage may vary

    Excelsior!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Sorry Troll,

    There comes a point when the lies and whitewashing get sickening.

    My people have been hung out to dry by idiots and lies have been posted all over the internet making my people look like trash.

    There will be no peace without honesty and truth, Troll. That is the most basic bedrock to respect, and respect is the most basic bedrock to peace.

    You knew that already – I’m just reminding you.

  • zingzing

    people who say that other are anti-semetic just because they don’t see israel as faultless in this war need to go read their history. this is a political problem, not a racial problem. no one gives two shits what race you are. both jews and non-jews live in israel, and no one is making the distinction except those who want to call others anti-semites.

    it’s a disturbing little smoke-screen bullshit tactic. someone points out that you aren’t a saint and you call them racist. not cool.

    so, if you call someone anti-semitic, from now on, i think everyone would appreciate it if something (such as a comment that shows hatred for jews) were referenced.

    thank you.

  • gonzo marx

    correct me if i am wrong here…

    but aren’t the Palestinians “semites” as well?

    so this is not about race…but about politics

    after all, what separates these folks stems from half brothers squabbling over inheritance rights, and differences in some scriptures

    the whole things quite sickens me, it appears as a very deadly game between 4 year olds of “don’t touch me”….”stop touching me”…. “he hit me first”

    over and over, on and on

    both sides need to grow the fuck up and learn to live together…yes, some folks are stupider about it than others…

    but there is quite enough stupidity in this Conflict to go around…NONE are blameless

    Excelsior!

  • zingzing

    are palestinians semites? i dunno. i never heard that… but i haven’t heard a lot of things.

    as for the rest, THANK YOU.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    NONE are blameless

    True. I’d say there’s about 1% of blame on the Israeli side, and 99% on the Palestinian.

    Rachel’s death is sad. But so are the deaths of thousands of Israeli young women blown to bits by the kind of suicide bombers that Miss Corrie was trying to encourage and give her moral support to. I don’t see any bullshit “Foundations” being set up to keep all of THEIR memories alive – just a lot of silently grieving families who’s only consolation is that perhaps ther rest of their children will be just a little bit safer now that Rachel Corrie is no longer able to continue supporting INJUSTICE and the MURDER fo innocents.

  • gonzo marx

    well said, Richard…even if i must disAgree with some of the content and conclusions

    i do agree wholeheartedly that ANYONE killing civilians in this ocnflict is WRONG…and that the greater number of these tactics fall on one side more than the other

    but neither side is blameless in this

    something for you to think about…you express disdain for this non-violent protester who was killed….and appear to do so because of where you standon this Issue for your Reasoning…

    fair enough

    what to think about is this…

    would you rather not see this worked out by non-violent protesters, and diplomatic means rather than continued violence?

    does not the horrible death of this non-combatant make one pause to think about the Conflict, and that it may be better approached and dealt with than is currently occuring?

    Excelsior!

  • zingzing

    how many palestinians die compared to israelis?

    what’s the ratio?

    as far as fault goes, here it is: 50/50.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    as far as fault goes, here it is: 50/50.

    No. The assignment of fault has to take into account who is launching the violence and which side is defending itself. If the Palestinians had never sent a single suicide bomber against innocent Israeli men, women, and children, I guarantee you there would have been no necessity for the civililian casualties occasioned as an unintentional by-product of trying to eliminate terrorist nests at their source.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    i do agree wholeheartedly that ANYONE killing civilians in this ocnflict is WRONG…and that the greater number of these tactics fall on one side more than the other

    Just want to make sure you’re not “agreeing” with something that is not my position. You cannot leave out the all important word “intentionally”. My position would have to be stated a little more particularly, as follows:

    “ANYONE intentionally killing civilians in this conflict is WRONG”

    So now can you still agree, with that clarification?

  • zingzing

    nope. wars start out like that. they don’t continue for this long without both sides being at fault. you can’t put a number on this shit. both sides share the blame. it is true that, recently, the arabs have been more of the aggressors. that said, if canada had, 50 years ago, decided to relocate its french people to washington, d.c., how would you feel?

  • gonzo marx

    well Richard, i can see we are close..and i will answer after your response to…

    does launching a missile into an apartment building in hopes of taking out a single opposition leader (knowing full well non-combatants are also in the building) count as intentional, or non-intentional by your above definition?

    Excelsior!

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    I gotta say this gonzo. What I think of when someone gets run over by a slow moving tank or bulldozer is…wtf? Were you really stupid enough not to move? It’s almost as dumb as blowing yourself up to make a point, minus the other useless deaths. Taking your own life seems like such a chickenshit thing to do anyway…you don’t have to stick around and face the consequences…

  • gonzo marx

    really Andy?

    and you say this on Good Friday?

    well, i guess we know yer take on sacrificing yourself intentionally for your Ideal

    glad Christ wasn’t a pragmatist on these things

    he seems to have viewed self sacrifice a bit differently

    so did those Buddhist monks who lit themselves on fire to protest a war

    so has every soldier that ran knowingly to his death so his buddies could live to fight on

    you want more examples?

    Excelsior!

  • zingzing

    it’s kind of like going to a warzone for something you believe in… kind of like the military. STOO-PID.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Ruvy and I get told that something really horrible should happen to us, and it’s RUVY that needs to be told to turn it down?! Somebody outline anything he’s said that’s so hateful. Chris, I know you’ve attempted to do that – but you failed. He’s sticking up for himself and his own people. Maybe what’s getting on your nerves is the fact that he’s not burdened by any silly liberal guilt trip and he knows how to argue. Obviously, you don’t like him for those things alone.

    Jesus, get a grip, folks. Like Ruvy said, you’ve all got your heads so tight up your own politically correct assholes that you wouldn’t know the truth if it kicked you in the teeth.

  • zingzing

    ruvy was acting like a fundamentalist, holier-than-thou, stuck up pig. you’re acting like his little girl.

    that can be edited. i don’t care.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    wars start out like that. they don’t continue for this long without both sides being at fault.

    Like WW2? So it didn’t matter that Hitler “started it out” by being the agressor – if it drags out for a long enough time then, by your logic, those trying to stop Nazi agression have to be held equally as much at fault as Hitler was!

    both sides share the blame

    No. Hitler gets ALL the blame for WW2, and the Palestinians get ALL the blame for their agression against Israel.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    does launching a missile into an apartment building in hopes of taking out a single opposition leader (knowing full well non-combatants are also in the building) count as intentional, or non-intentional by your above definition?

    Non-intentional. The intention is to kill the leader (who may not himself even be a combatant – was Arafat ever in combat?) And the so-called non-combatants you refer to, in attempting to be human shields, are thereby assuming a combat role. In the case of an Islamic culture, where the parents strap suicide bombs around their own children’s waists, the whole population can be regarded as engaging in various combat roles.

  • gonzo marx

    so to you…a sleeping child in that building is just collateral damage to the missile?

    your statement …
    *the whole population can be regarded as engaging in various combat roles.*

    seems to make that point

    if such is the case, we will have to disAgree….there is no more i can speak with you about that is worth the bother

    Excelsior!

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    a sleeping child in that building is just collateral damage to the missile?

    You must be referring to the sleeping child whose parents were intending to strap his suicide belt on the next morning.

    Unfortunately the “innocents” in that population are collateral damage to the ongoing fallout from an ideological missle launched about 1400 years ago known as the Koran.

  • gonzo marx

    Richard sez…
    *You must be referring to the sleeping child whose parents were intending to strap his suicide belt on the next morning.*

    that statement alone shows that you are part of the Problem, and not truly interested in any solution

    i am NOT defending the militants who attack civilians…as i have stated many times….rather am i pointed out that there are plenty of undeserving dead on BOTH sides….and that if the killing stopped, it would go a long way to figuring out the rest….i place no blame on any specific here….just pointing towards one avenue of possible Solution

    chalk up another whose “card” is revoked…

    Excelsior!

  • mike

    the people who were shot were useful idiots for the palestinian cause

  • troll

    *if it drags out for a long enough time then, by your logic, those trying to stop Nazi agression have to be held equally as much at fault as Hitler was!*

    Richard – indeed we got there with our firebombing of German and Japanese cities – huge intentional civilian death tolls

    war = atrocity

    troll

  • sr

    My two cents worth. Not sure if my worth is that much. Christiane Amanpour of CNN. The whore goddess for all things liberal in mid-east affairs. Libs put their butt’s skyward to receive her intelectual journalistic liberal bias bullshit. After the ordeal of receiving her anti-semitic enema they now have the liberal farting power to share with us conservative dumb-fucks. If I were a Jew, not a liberal Jew I would first nuke all unborn gay liberals and then its stop-over at 40,000ft above Iran. Lights out fuckers. YEE HAW.
    Read this today, maybe. Have a happy-happy Easter egg hunt dip-sticks.

  • troll

    *Ruvy and I get told that something really horrible should happen to us, and it’s RUVY that needs to be told to turn it down?!*

    Hmmm – good point MEM…for my part I guess that I hold Ruvy to a higher standard than I do the threatening dingbats – I also pay more attention to his comments

    he is ‘boots on the ground’ so to speak – his behavior and attitude actually can make a difference for better or worse

    troll

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    if the killing stopped, it would go a long way to figuring out the rest

    The killing will have to be stopped by those who started it, OBVIOUSLY! Then those who have no choice but to kill in order to defend themselves against the I-N-I-T-I-A-T-O-R-S, will no longer have any need to continue killing.

    Problem solved. So why don’t YOU try being part of the Solution by joining those who insist that the suicide and other kinds of FIRST-STRIKE attacks by Palestinians and other Arab terrorists against Israel be brought to a grinding halt. Finis. War over.

  • wow

    They took out my comment before, but I dont care…Manning is a Racist and a Bigot, and symbolizes everything that is wrong with the world

  • sr

    Troll#91. Right on. Im with you Troll and also wonder about those threatening dingbats. What is this world coming too.

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    gonzo – and I must say, I love you for this…you have such a different, sometimes better way of looking at things…honestly, sometimes, you give me a whole different perspective….

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    You throw shit in my face…make me taste it…and some times…yeah only sometimes…it really tastes bad!!!

    And I only say what I say about that self sacrifice thing because of what I read, that you told me to read!!!

    I’m reading the Judas Gospels right now…maybe he wasn’t such a pragmatacist after all….

    Should Good Friday really affect me the way it did when I was a kid??? Especially after what you’ve taught me???

  • http://theugliestamerican.blogspot.com Andy Marsh

    Or should I say, what you steered me to read???

  • gonzo marx

    to Andy…it’s a fine day to Ponder all sides of the equation…isn’t it? and yer welcome…now read more!

    heh

    to Richard…i’d already stated in #71
    *i do agree wholeheartedly that ANYONE killing civilians in this ocnflict is WRONG…and that the greater number of these tactics fall on one side more than the other*

    perhaps you had missed that…

    perhaps you should have re-thought the entire quote from #87…the partial quote doesn’t convey the entire Thought…
    *i am NOT defending the militants who attack civilians…as i have stated many times….rather am i pointed out that there are plenty of undeserving dead on BOTH sides….and that if the killing stopped, it would go a long way to figuring out the rest.*

    objects in mirror are closer than they appear

    Excelsior!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Shavua Tov everybody (have a good week),

    First of all, to Troll at Comment #90. Thank you for the compliments and kind words.

    As to your recommendations on looking for peace (Comment #64), a brief status report.

    An important institution here in Israel that I had been banking on was proving most troublesome on other issues and I had nearly given up hope on it being an instrumentality for the attempt for peace.

    But some issues seem to have been resolved and now I can perhaps talk to these guys, pushing the ideas you have seen me write about to bring about peace here, at other articles on Blog Critics.

    It will still be a long and very difficult haul.

    The good news is what is being painted as a tragedy in the world’s media – the “Palestinian” Authority is going broke and its own employees – the latest were police – are protesting the fact that they are not getting paid. If it collapes, there may be someone to talk to on the Arab side.

    I’ll be contacting others about that point this evening.

    Now, to the issue at hand.

    MEM, thank you for the backup.

    Richard Brodie, there is enough blame in this conflict for us all to seek forgiveness for our sins, though, as you may imagine, I would not apportion the blame the way others would.

    Bear in mind that in my eyes, this secular present government is a pack of bought out traitors. The actions of the Israeli government brought Yasser Arafat to power here, an action that has resulted in the impoverishment of Arabs living in the former Jordanian provinces of Bethlehem, Jerusalem and Nablus, what is in reality, liberated Judea and Samaria.

    The Israeli government nurtured Hamas, which was elected out of frustration by these impoverished Arabs to get rid of Fateh, which is rolling in money, by the way.

    Had the Israeli government been serious about providing security to its residents, the ISM, to which Rachel Corrie beloged, would have been rooted out before it ever got one kid to blocking any IDF operations. If memory serves the incidewnt in which the girl (stretching the word here) died was the destruction of a terrorist’s house. All the idiot peaceniks the government allows in here, not to mention organizations that openly engage in treason, like Peace Now, would have been shut down or kicked out.

    But a non-serious government of traitors that allowed a thief and a killer to come to power in Arab cities i n Judea, Samaria and Gaza, because it itself is composed of thieves and killers, aloowed and continues to allow such things to occur. The blame for Rachel Corrie’s death lies squarely on Ariel Sharon’s head.

    Gonzo, you have made a number of comments about the slightly more agressive strategy in searching out terrorist leaders. A few observations from someone whose policies will not be listened to by those presently in power.

    The IDF has been corrupted by those in power. The IDF, which once was the most moral of military forces, has stooped to low and pathetic levels of behavior towards recruits who serve a Higher Authority than it, out of its fear that the IDF may be transformed from the goons of a G-d hating government into the righteous arm of the Hosts of the L-rd.

    The IDF is wasting missiles. When a terrorist is caught, or when a terrorist succeeds, the family of the terrorist should be transferred to a town where his clan does not live. This strategy, which takes advantage of the normative hostility of one Arab clan to another, will end terrorism in three months without a single missile fired, a single soldier lost, a single civilian killed.

    IMHO, the present crisis that the PA finds itlef in should be allowed to continue, and all monies to it blocked. Th8is is a very effective strategy to binging down the PA. While I prefer to see a military operation conducted where all the “liberation” mobs of terrorists are liquidated like so many cockroaches, the most effective method of deqling with them will come at the hands of Arabs themselves. If it comes to such a “liquidation,” I prefer to see Arabs sick of being poor and ripped off leading the charge.

    There can be no peace here without a victory, and hopefully this victory can be achieved without firebombing Arab cities the way German cities were 60 years ago.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    This came into my inbox a little bit ago from IMRA. The link is to a ynetnews story of a Qassam rocket that exploded just ouside of a kibbutz dining hall at Yad Mordekhai just after 8:30 when people were having their Shabbat meal. This is just to remind everybody that Israel faces enemies on several levels. The most obvious are the Arabs shooting rockets at Israeli communities. These are bascked up by the Wahhabi and their spoor, the Moslem Brotherhood, and its spoor, Hamas. Then there are the Shia in Iran who threaten Israqel’s exixtence. Fibnally, and most deadly, are the governments of the United States and of the Europe Union who have bought the country’s leaders and who are eating away at the country from the inside with them like maggots.

  • Shinto

    So i see some dickheads here who thinks thats palestinian children are innocent?

    is it time yet to post Videos of Palestinian and Arab Childrens screaming at the top of there voice to kill all jews? oh by doing so we’ll uncover the terrorists thats commenting here. oops! thats bad cuz anything that makes them look wrong is unjust!

    Bigotry and hypocricy is the soul export of Muslims. remember that. We dont give a fuck what they do aslong as they leave the Jews and us alone. It is time to silence the Palestinian Appeasers. We will no longer listen to any of you.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Shinto: if you are intimidated by the shouting of children you have more serious problems than your insulting language and poor grammar would at first indicate…

  • troll

    Chris – the problems are first that the people organizing the brainwashing sessions are not children and second that those children will grow up dragging their warped emotional baggage along with them…but then you knew that already

    Shinto would be foolish not to be concerned about those images

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    troll: Having spent most of my life living with the now mostly extinguished Republican Irish terrorist threat and seeing the difference that a peace negotiated with those former terrorists made, I don’t take this kind of thing too seriously.

    As the regional superpower, backed by an illegally obtained nuclear arsenal that could take out any or all perceived enemies at any time, Israel could create and enforce a just settlement whenever it wanted to.

    The fact that it hasn’t yet done so must raise questions in the minds of all people of good will as to what exactly they are trying to achieve in the region.

    Therefore, I respectfully submit that Shinto’s concerns are indeed foolish and irrelevant…

  • troll

    Chris – I may well be wrong and your optimism justified… time will tell whether indoctrination to accept violent acts as the way in radicalized Islam is qualitatively different from that in either Christian sect involved in the ‘Irish situation’

    as for solutions – I’ve no idea what a ‘just settlement’ would look like that would satisfy the principles

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Troll,

    A progress report on attempts at peace in the region from my end of the deal.

    Seven months ago to the day I wrote the following:

    “An important institution here in Israel that I had been banking on was proving most troublesome on other issues and I had nearly given up hope on it being an instrumentality for the attempt for peace.

    But some issues seem to have been resolved and now I can perhaps talk to these guys, pushing the ideas you have seen me write about to bring about peace here, at other articles on Blog Critics.

    It will still be a long and very difficult haul.”

    Now it will be a longer and more difficult haul…
    The organization I was relying on as an instrumentality for leading Jews to a path of peace, the developing Sanhedrin, appears to have collapsed altgether. It was to be the group of religious leaders who were to sit at the table with Moslem religious leaders, hammering out what their secular counterparts could not, a peace based on their common heritage of the Children of Abraham.

    But hope is not entirely lost. Where one door closes, another opens. This story, “Emuna News exclusive: Yehuda into the hornet’s nest” leaves hope that the path to peace that I see as most workable might yet prove a path that can be negotiated, in spite of the lack of focus among Jewish religious leaders.

    I had tenuous indirect ties to some of the members of the “developing Sanhedrin.” I have none to Rabbi Levin, featured in this story. So here I am only a spectator. In addition, the Moslem cleric to be spoken with is from Hamas. In my eyes, Hamas is merely the local branch office of the Moslem Brotherhood. Further, the writer of the story linked to hints at a “borsalino in hand” approach to the Hamas cleric in question, indicating negotiating from weakness.

    Nevertheless, contact is contact and at least Hamas is up-front about its opposition to a Jewish State even existing. Better to talk with a man who admits his enmity than with one who hides it behind diplomatic phrases…

  • troll

    Ruvy – sorry to hear the (not surprising) news about failure of attempts to regenerate the Sanhedrin…I’ve been holding out hope for the possibly positive power of the Irrational