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Thoughts on Rabbi Meir Kahane, z”l, hy”d, and What I Owe Him

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In last Thursday's Jerusalem Post (21 February 2008), Elliot Jager, an editor at the Jerusalem Post, wrote a review of Libby Kahane's biography of her late husband, Rav Meir Kahane, may his memory be for a blessing and may G-d redeem his blood.

One paragraph in Mr. Jager's review caught my eye and held it.

I don't know if Meir Kahane saved Soviet Jewry – though he certainly put the issue on the front pages of the newspapers – but he undoubtedly saved thousands of American Jewish youths like me, not only those who joined his Jewish Defense League, but those who benefited collaterally from it. And for that, whatever his failings, I, for one, am in his debt.

Like Elliot Jager, I too am in Rav Kahane's debt. I benefited collaterally from the Jewish Defense League, attending its karate lessons (for a dollar a pop), and seeing something I had never seen in my entire life – Jewish pride in operation, up front and personal – in Brooklyn.

What a difference a JDL demo was from the demos of the peaceniks protesting the war in Vietnam!!

I went to both in the late '60's. At the anti-war demos, the stink of pot was always in the air as kids with red armbands tried to keep order until the inevitable police charge on horseback and billysticks, panic and tear gas replaced the stink of pot and antiwar slogans. I remember one demo where cops were chasing us up one of the avenues in Manhattan. Seeing the cops bearing down on us, I saw the Milliner's Synagogue, (now known as the Millinery Center Synagogue) banged on the doors and screamed in Yiddish, "Cops! Fascists! Help!! Open up!!"

A fellow opened up the doors and let a bunch of us in. We ran into the synagogue and the rabbi told us to sit on the floor in a circle. It wasn't exactly MinHa (afternoon prayers), but when some cops burst in, they saw us and the rabbi sitting on the floor and sneered "are these your guests, rabbi?"

He nodded in the affirmative; the cops snorted in contempt and left.

On the news it always recounted how many anti-war demonstrators had been arrested and how many had been beaten and sent to hospital.

At the JDL demonstrations, we marched with pride. Many of the cops confronting us, especially the Jewish ones, felt bad about having to block our way. You could see it on their faces. The city brass eventually replaced the sad faced cops with the Tactical Patrol Force, cold blooded scum who were the forerunners of today's SWAT teams and Yassam Unit of the Israel Police. We fought the bastards.

When reporting the JDL demos on the news, reporters recounted how many policemen and demonstrators had been sent to hospital, and then how many demonstrators had been arrested.

The idea that Jew-hatred was the problem of the Jew-hater and that it was the job of the Jew to "educate" the Jew-hater not to manifest that hatred – expressed in the following Talmudic dictum "he who raises his hand to bless you, bless him first; he who raises his hand to kill you, kill him first" – was truly liberating for me, who had always been taught that "good Jewish boys don't fight".

It wasn't Rav Kahane who brought out the idea in me that being Jewish was more important than anything else. I've always felt that way. But Rav Kahane made clear the issue of immigrating to Israel in terms of blasphemy, Hillul Hashem, as opposed to blessing G-d (and bringing G-d's blessing upon oneself in turn), Kiddush Hashem. To this day, I remember this in a lecture he gave in a Manhattan Beach synagogue. That lecture was over 30 years ago, and its lessons did not come to fruition until I realized in 1998 that a sickened American culture was about to steal my children from me. But the seed had been planted, by seeing Jewish soldiers conquer the part of Israel I live in today, Samaria, in 1967; by seeing Jewish pride in operation in the Jewish Defense League in the late 60's and early 70's; by seeing how the world tuned against the Jewish people in the 1970's; and finally by that lecture in that Manhattan Beach synagogue. And like Elliot Jager, I returned to Israel and made it my home.

Rav Kahane was not the perfect person. I remember him as media hound in America, and apparently there were times in his life when he did not behave as a rabbi ought to. But he eventually developed a scholarly side and wrote some very painful articles on Jewish identity that should be required reading for any person who claims to be a Jew. It was truly a sad day when he was murdered in New York in 1990 by an Arab, and a sadder day when the jury refused to find the Arab who killed him guilty of the crime. But it is my opinion that it will be necessary to go beyond many of the ideas of Rav Kahane in the not too distant future.

As Elliot Jager puts it,

He was a product of his times. Rabbi Meir Kahane – as man and phenomenon…could only have sprung to prominence in the tumultuous time and perilous place that was New York City in the late 1960s and early 1970s. It was the perfect storm for Diaspora Jewish militancy. Entire urban Jewish neighborhoods were under siege: synagogues firebombed; cemeteries desecrated; elderly Jews beaten mercilessly….Jews who could flee to the suburbs did so (enabling many to hang onto their liberalism), while those of us trapped in the five boroughs were left to our own devices.

In his review, Jager correctly pointed out that the rich Jews living in these suburbs (or Manhattan enclaves), well-heeled, acculturated leaders of the Jewish establishment, were cut off from the concerns of their poor and mostly Orthodox coreligionists. Prominent Jewish organizations, settlement houses and even so-called Jewish hospitals became devoted to serving the black and Puerto Rican communities. There was no money for Jewish education (Rav Kahane used to excoriate Jewish education in his weekly articles in the Jewish Press); none for the Jewish poor (who were thought not to exist); and nothing – needless to say – for defense in the inner-city jungle. In fact, only after the JDL attacked the offices of the Jewish Federation in Manhattan, where my cousin Hattie, z"l, a typist there, cowered while angry yeshiva youths and radicals stormed the halls and offices of the chief "Jewish" charity in New York, were funds found for programs where Jewish student organizations could be funded, or where volunteers could call old people living in the Bronx to see if they were at least alive.

At the other end of the Jewish communal spectrum were Old World rabbis painfully disconnected from the pulsating temptations and lurking dangers that surrounded their charges. I remember talking to the younger brother of a girlfriend of my youth, a yeshiva boy, and seeing how utterly ignorant of Jewish history he was. I, a nearly secular Jew, knew a lot more than he did; I was shocked to discover that his school did not teach Jewish history at all!!

Jews in New York seemed to face the choice of hanging on to the waning yiddishkeit, Jewish culture of the shtetl, brought by immigrants in the early 20th century, embracing by hook or by crook the phony Judaism of the limousine liberal crowd, or walking away from the whole kit and caboodle at the first opportunity.

Those times have passed into history. They are long over, and the world is moving on. For us in Israel, we are now the besieged, in a way we never were in the past. The internal unity of our country has been shredded by a corrupt upper class that slavishly worships Christian America or pagan Europe. The socialism that once ameliorated life here somewhat is distant history (only health insurance and the dead hand of socialist bureaucracy remains); it has been replaced with a capitalism run wild, a culture of exploitation that is only matched in its viciousness by the shtetl culture of eastern Europe that young Jewish men and women like my father fled a century ago, hoping never to see it again. But it is here again, even amidst the cell phones, rave parties and ecstasy pills.

Thirty years ago here, pickup trucks used to carry workers to and from their jobs. On the back of the trucks were written poalim, the word that then meant worker, and which is related to the Hebrew root "to operate". Today, workers are called 'ovdim' in Hebrew, a word related to the word for "slave" 'eved. The country that consumes the second highest amount of vodka per person in the whole world is Israel. This is not merely due to the influx of Russians in the last 18 years.

Our security is compromised by that same corrupted upper class that worships America and Europe, an upper class that has the stink of the limousine liberals who fled to Long Island, Westchester and the exurbs of New York City 40 to 50 years ago. Katyushas, Grads and Qassams fall increasingly on our cities and towns, and the limousine "liberals" of Tel Aviv don't give a damn. More and more Israelis are beginning to feel in their gut the abandonment the internal refugees of Gush Qatif have felt for two years. In fact, it appears that the only thing they do give a damn about are accounts in Switzerland, the Cayman Islands or the Channel Isles as tax shelters.

Ironically, the whole nation of Israel is much like the besieged Jewish community of New York City 40 years ago. All over Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria, you can see the truth written on the walls; Kahana tzadak! "Kahane was right!"

Kahane was right.

But he is dead, and we as Jews, and as Children of Israel, will have to move beyond the vision of Rav Meir Kahane, z"l, hy"d. We will have to do this in order to make of our home here more than just the "first fruit of redemption." The first fruit must be allowed to grow into the Tree of Redemption, the tree that will blossom and bring us out of the evil into which we have fallen and into the sunshine promised us by our Prophets.

We, the Children of Israel, have a role to play in history. We have to arise, reclaim our pride and dignity and play that role without fear in a world that is beset by terror, fear and confusion.

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About Ruvy

Hi!! Thanks for coming to my article! I was raised in Brooklyn, was graduated from the City University of New York in 1978 with a BA in political science and public administration there. I lived in Minnesota for a number of years. There I managed restaurants and wrote stories. We moved with our children family to Israel where we now reside. My work can be found at Ruvy's Roost, Jewish Indy,, and on Facebook under my full name, Reuven Kossover
  • JustOneMan

    Interesting z”l, hy”d, could have focused a little more on h’w,qy”e and m’we…

    JOM

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    And now that we have heard from the idiots from the peanut galley, let’s move to the real news.

    As I said in the essay, Katyushas, Grads and Qassams fall increasingly on our cities and towns, and the limousine “liberals” of Tel Aviv don’t give a damn.

    Quoting Arutz Sheva from yesterday, Barry Chamish wrote,

    “The city of Netivot, in the western Negev, as well as the southern Jerusalem neighborhood of Gilo came under fire Saturday night after midnight…

    Terrorists opened fire toward IDF soldiers near the Jewish town of Psagot in the Binyamin region on Saturday night.

    At least 20 missiles were fired by Gaza terrorists at the coastal city of Ashkelon between midnight and 8:00 a.m.”

    Israel is in the beginning stages of complete chaos. Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned the enemy that Ashkelon cannot be attacked. Oh sure, Sderot, that’s okay, it’s
    full of Moroccans and you can do what you want there. But Ashkelon…real people need the place.

    Then came the live fire attacks on Jerusalem, not by Hamas but by our “peace” partner Fatah. What gall, and just when we had begun handing half the town to them. Yes, actually physically started divvying up the town!

    After Ashkelon, the port of Ashdod will be enflamed by Katyusha missiles. Step by step, little by little, Hizbullah and Syria will make sure Tel Aviv is flaming rubble. Look at the destruction of Ashkelon by a mere 20 missiles. All the firetrucks in all the stations, in all the land, won’t put Tel Aviv back together when it’s hit by 10,000 rockets in a day.

    But let’s look at this chaos as an opportunity. From out of the ashes Israel will renew itself by purging the nation of its highest betrayers. When the nation burns, while tohu vebohu [Hebrew for absolute chaos, from the Biblical description of the state of the universe before Creation] rules every corner, we will have our moment to seize and interrogate the criminals who brought the nation to its bloody knees.

    I await the magical moment when the mob that is us will storm the President’s House and imprison Shimon Yech Peres. There are guards there and a few may not abandon their posts. The rest will be overcome. We shall not have the same resistance to the capture and arrest of Yossi Beilin and Carmi Gillon. They will immediately be charged with the cruel casualties they brought us with their Oslo “peace” accord. The crime; the murder and maiming of 10,000 good Jews, military and civilian. The punishment; whatever befits the machinations of the felons.

    To learn the facts finally, the interrogations will be long and merciless. But Peres and Gillon will tell us the truth about their murder of Rabin, the frameup of Goldstein, the systematic elimination of political opponents from straight shootings, to “accidents,” and unexplained sickness. And Peres will finally say who he was working for and detail all the corruption of his cronies.

    If not…not.

    From Beilin, who unlike Peres, was the real father of Oslo, we will extract what the real purpose of Oslo was. After a few hours he will speak of an Israel without borders, as he bragged to his cohorts. We will offer him the opportunity to tell us who funneled their money to him from Europe for his initiatives to mass-murder the Jews of Israel. If he is reluctant in any way to confess…

    He won’t be…this coward will do anything to save his sniveling life.

    In a few days we’ll know who murdered Sharon, Ben Elissar, Arlosoroff, Raful, Gur, Judge Azar, Wayne Owens et al. We’ll finally know who kidnapped the Yemenite infants of the ’50s and why, at the same time, 108,000 Sephardic children were irradiated in their brains to “treat” ringworm. We’ll know all about the Gush Katif atrocity and all the agents and spies in our midst. And we will learn at last, the truth of Weizmann, Kastner and the Holocaust.

    And that is only after a few days. By then Israel’s military will have overcome or not.

    Either way, finally, as Israel burns to cinders or doesn’t, we will have our own sweet victory over the worst curse ever to have plagued us, Labor Zionism.

    There was no URL for Barry’s comments, or I would link you all directly there, rather than copying them out here, but they reflect well what is happening in the country. In the coming days, weeks and months, we will see increasing chaos as the country degenerates into a firestorm of war, with the emphasis on destroying the nexus of wealth built up on the coastal cities from Yaffo all the way up to Atlit and Akko. Ashqelon will, as the Tana”kh predicts, be a heap of rubble. And so will Ashdod. Thus we will see the prophecies of our ancient Prophets come true. Why am I quoting Barry Chamish?

    He is a secular Jew! If he believes in the truth of the Tana”kh, he keeps that fact carefully hidden.

    Yet this secular Jew matches the predictions of our ancient prophets concerning the cities on the coast.

    It’s starting to get interesting, folks. We won’t have time here to worry about which idiot will be the American “Monkey-in-chief” next January. The rockets are falling now, and the missiles will follow in not too long.

    Oh, I realize that you Americans can only focus on what new truth Obama has revealed today, or how Hillary has shown her experience once again, and how the venerable McCain is not yet senile.

    But all I can tell you is Obama Oshmama! The fun stuff will be happening here!

  • JustOneMan

    There’s no need to fear the US money, bullets and weapons are here!!!!

    JOM “The biggest supporter of Israel…dispite Ruvy!”

  • http://worldagainstwar.org World Against War

    World Against War

    The antiwar movement is strong and organizing fast. There’s going to be an antiwar protest held in a few weeks that will be the largest in history of human history. Still have yet to read a single blurb about it, but yet the people know… How did the movement organize this many countries and places?

  • JustOneMan

    How did the movement organize this many countries and places?

    Um…er…because they didnt?

    The site you linked to is a left wing propaganda site

    JOM

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Ruvy, your glossing over of the virulent racism and active terrorism of the JDL is glaring for anyone actually familiar with the history of the period, the organization and Kahane’s attempts to be the next best thing to a theocratic Hitler.

    Your article is an excellent reminder that despite the fact that you’re often coherent, you subscribe to a philosophy of hate and intolerance as bad as anything to come out of fundamentalist Islam or the Christian Identity movement.

    Dave

  • JustOneMan

    Dave..did you mean to say….

    “philosophy of hate and intolerance as bad as anything” since Adolph Hitler?

    JOM

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Ruvy, your glossing over of the virulent racism and active terrorism of the JDL is glaring for anyone actually familiar with the history of the period, the organization….

    Dave,

    Let’s see what I might have glossed over…. Having lived in New York all my life in 1971, having lived the events and the history of the period, and having followed carefully the actions of the only organization I really admired in those days, the Jewish Defense League, let’s see if I can jog my aging memory to raise a fire from the embers of my youth….

    1. The JDL violently opposed the black power racist thugs in New York and Boston. They were not afraid to call them criminals when the lily-livered liberals in their Manhattan enclaves and suburbs in Westchester, Rockland, and the Island cultivated them because they have/had no guts at all. They actually made the sons of ass-holes behave when the lily-livered liberals in New York couldn’t – and wouldn’t.

    2. The JDL violently opposed the “Young Lord” Puerto Rican racist thugs in New York. They refused to let them take over school district meetings without opposition in New York while the lily-livered liberals said nothing and pissed in their pants, yellowing their underwear.

    3. The JDL made the lives of Russian “consular” officials miserable in New York and forced the bastards to stay in their compounds instead of wandering freely while the Soviet government held Jews prisoner in the USSR.

    4. The JDL made it dangerous for Jews in America to get rich off doing business with self same assholes in the USSR. Poor Armand Hammer suffered because Jews like us said ‘you boycott the enemy instead of making him look good’. My heart bleeds for the bastard.

    5. The JDL gave the Russians in New York a taste of the violence they had freely dispensed against my people in Russia for centuries. Vengeance is best served cold – over a stiff at a Russian Consulate.

    6. White Christians would tell me of the JDL, “it’s about time you Jews fought back!” The willingness to fight for one’s own raised respect – even in beer slurping Catholics who heard the priests tell them at Easter how Jews killed Jesus and who were happy to beat up Jewish kids who didn’t fight back….

    7. When we organized defense patrols in a neighborhood, young black kids would come over, wanting to join; they liked gang violence as much as we did; and where we could, like in Mattappan(sp?), Boston, we actively encouraged them to join. There’s real racism for you!

    8. MORE IMPORTANT THAN ALL OF THIS, we scared the living shit out the rich Jewish establishment, the assimilated pricks who have been selling out Jews for decades in America and who ran off to Larchmont or Rye or the exurbs to have their children screw goyim at the first noise that “the neighborhood is farshvartzed” (blacks were moving in).

    Based on their attitudes, I would say that they were the racists, not the members of the JDL.

    And the assholes are still selling out Jews – only now they concentrate on trying to get us killed, instead of just Jews in New York.

    Mind you, Dave, I’m only talking about the Jewish Defense League in Mew York and Boston. I’m not talking about the Ka”ch Party in Israel, about which I’m less familiar.

    But we’ll give you a tale from them too, since some stupid schmuck at BC (probably a Jew himself) will probably raise the issue. This is one I didn’t live to see myself and only heard years after the event. I still lived in America at the time….

    One of the former JDL members opened a club in one of the major cities here, a place for his buddies to hang out and drink coffee. One day, a couple of guys come strolling in talking about how they were there to protect the club from violent occurrences that had been happening in the area. Brooklyn boys know all about the mob and their tactics, and the club owner, working the counter at the time, picked up his baseball bat and explained pleasantly that the bat would protect him and his establishment.

    The two men laughed and asked how that little stick was going to protect the club from people who might try to destroy it. The counterman just smiled back and told them, al tid’ag, zeh ya’avor – “don’t worry, this will do the job. Plus,” he added in Hebrew, “I have friends who will help me.” The customers stopped sipping at their Turkish coffees and began to pay attention to the exchange at the counter.

    At this point, the two men dropped their pretense of friendliness and told the counterman that if they didn’t walk out with some money for protection, terrible things would happen to the club.

    The customers, all member of the JDL or Ka”ch, pulled out their weapons, various kinds of pistols, rifles, Uzis, etc. and aimed them at the two mobsters. The two mobsters, understood the message and never showed again.

    That, Dave, is how you deal with crime and terror.

    To repeat the dictum from the Talmud, “he who raises his hand to bless you, bless him first; he who raises his hand to kill you, kill him first”. Remember that the next time you are watching to see if anyone will threaten your gated compound….

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jewish Civilian Faces Arrest After Shooting at Lynch Mob by Hillel Fendel

    This article by Arutz Sheva details the latest violence in Samaria, the violence referred to by Barry Chamish in comment #1.

    Comments by MK Aryeh Eldad on the incident taken from the article at Arutz Sheva:

    Don’t Arrest Him

    Reacting quickly to the incident, Eldad called upon Public Security [Police] Minister Avi Dichter to order the police not to arrest the shooter. Eldad also called upon the Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria “not to hesitate to use your weapons when you are attacked, because it is now clear that the State, for political reasons, will not protect you.”

    This attack was not a random incident of violence, it was well planned. I now must worry seriously about sitting guard at the village gate. The war forecast earlier is beginning. The traitors in Jerusalem think they are “opening a faucet of terror” to scare the residents here into leaving. They do not realize that in doing so, they have brought their own blood upon their heads.

    It is not with pleasure that I contemplate having to kill my Arab neighbors who may, frenzied up by Hamas or FataH, seek my life. I would much prefer to sit with them over tea and cakes and discuss our common concerns, villager to villager. Most of them are decent people, ill used by panderers of hatred and war. But if killing must be done, it must be done.

    I have said on these virtual pages a number of times that I fully believe that there will be reconciliation between Jews and Arabs as predicted in Isaiah 60:7-8. But I have also pointed out that before that reconciliation does take place, a season of much blood-letting will take place, a season I fear is now beginning.

    The full Arutz Sheva article may be viewed at the link at the beginning of the comment.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Updating the comment #9:

    Neria Resident Released From Police Custody
    (an Arutz Sheva newsflash)

    An initial IDF investigation found Benvenisti acted properly, first firing in the air and then at the lower extremeties of one of the attackers. Arabs claimed that the rioter who was shot died, but absconded with the body and have not come forward with any deceased.

    The police released the Neria resident because of lack of police findings against him, according to Honenu, an organization that helps folks like me because the Israel Association for Human Rights does not consider Jews living in Judea or Samaria human and will not get involved.

    But, just because Benvenisti was released from custody does not mean that he will not be re-arrested on some kind of trumped up charge later. This happened with a kid named Cytryn who was arrested and tried for murdering an Arab and convicted of the crime, even though video evidence from the scene showed he could not have committed it!!

    In the meantime, Arutz Sheva asks, is a Arab ‘Third Intifada’ Underway?

    The article, by Nissan Ratzlav, details Arab violence in the Jerusalem area, while two other articles from the Arutz Sheva site, explain how Humanitarian Aid Flows into Gaza, Missiles and Mortars Fly Out, and how a Kassam Destroys Sderot Home, IAF Destroys Kassam Terror Cells.

    It is no longer a matter of “war approaching”. It’s arrived.

  • Les Slater

    Ruvy,

    “I would much prefer to sit with them over tea and cakes and discuss our common concerns, villager to villager. Most of them are decent people, ill used by panderers of hatred and war.”

    Just before the above you state, “The traitors in Jerusalem think they are ‘opening a faucet of terror’ to scare the residents here into leaving.” Doesn’t this also sound like an ‘ill use’?

    It seems to me that you have more in common with your Arab neighbors than Hamas, Fatah, or the Israeli ruling class and its government. As much as I respect your keen observations sometimes, I doubt that you are alone among Jews in recognizing the humanity of the Arab masses, and see them as being used as pawns. You do recognize that Jews are also being used as pawns? I hope so; this is one of the points I’ve been trying to drive home for some time.

    You’re not a dummy; I know you know that the Israeli regime is just a puppet of U.S. imperialism. You also know that Israel was established under false pretenses. You know this and more, very well.

    It seems that a major stumbling block for you seeing what to do next are the prophases. We communists also make predictions, in a very general sense. We see the objective logic in history unfolding but it is we, primarily the working class, acting, to make what happens, come at the least painful, and most conscious and productive way.

    You know too much to just let the schemes of the chess masters unfold without realizing that you would be part of the problem. Stop using the prophases as an excuse and a crutch. For a start you could at least popularize the fact that it is not the Arab masses that are the enemy of the Jews, that you have ultimately a common enemy in imperialism. Resist being a helpless pawn.

    Les

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Les,

    I know you mean well. Your heart is in the right place. We’ll give you full marks for that. But your logic isn’t, unfortunately.

    First of all, you need to get your spelling right. The thing that has you bothered here are prophecies. Truth be told, I do not view them as a crutch. I am not a fatalist. Bad prophecies can be averted by doing acts of kindness, charity and decency. Before the Lebanon War, I was actively making efforts to make sure that there would be no war here. I guess I just didn’t do enough.

    In dealing with my Arab neighbors, I have several major problems that have nothing to do with prophecies or predictions, and everything to do with who holds what weapons.

    Let us say for a moment that I had decided to pursue negotiations with my neighbors down the hill who hold olive groves and the like.

    1. Under the conditions we live in now, the law requires that I either have a weapon or be accompanied by someone with a weapon. In addition, prudence also dictates this.

    2. It is very likely that attempting to visit one of these Arabs could result in my death. After all, I do not know these people in person, and it is difficult to get to know them. It’s not like knocking on the door to borrow a cup of sugar or a few eggs. And unlike some, haven’t lived here for over twenty years – before the time when there was a PA or an intifada, or an artificial wall between Jews and Arabs.

    3. Words gets round of these things. This means that before I can take a piss, there is someone from the Shaba”k to help me pull down my zipper, somebody from the PLO or Hamas to make sure that my Arab neighbor doesn’t do anything to indicate that the “Zionist enemy” is anything other than an enemy – even if the Arab fellow knows I come in friendship. If all that does not work to keep us apart, there is always some prick from Peace Now or the BBC or Oxfam to fuck up the works with their bullshit and propaganda, and his little camera to make a YouTube to make sure no peace ever gets discussed.

    Do you get the picture? If I were Arkady Gaydamak with his billions, all the same problems would still apply, but I probably could buy my way of some of them.

    The issue is not seeing the obvious – it is getting Arabs who also see the obvious to be willing to disobey the word of a mukhtar who tells him to kill a given Jew. This is not easy. The mukhtar controls much of how that Arab is going to live his life.

    The issue is getting out from under the thumb of the Jewish Section of the Shaba”k – meaning that I have to provide my own security and risk the Jewish Section also being an enemy. They have plenty of guns, and goons to go with them.

    Finally, there is the issue of the press, which has bought a certain version of reality, and is absolutely determined that its version of reality will prevail, no matter what.

    Do you understand? You can afford to talk revolution. But I’m broke. Can you afford to pay me to make one?

  • Irene Wagner

    “Kill them all and let ‘God’ sort them out” vs. “Who raises his hand to greet you, greet him first; who raises his hand to kill you, kill him first.” In a world full of confusion and terror, can anyone really discern the face of a friend from the face of a betrayer? Isn’t the first adage the more practical one? Pre-emptive strikes are practical. Imperialism and Communism are equally practical. Doing unto others what you would not have them do unto you BEFORE they have a chance to do it unto you—-now THAT’S practical.

    The removal of the means of self-defense of an individual or of a nation is, in and of itself, an act of aggression, and so, I’m in no way advocating that Israel be forced to lay down its arms. It’s worth remembering, though, that there are–wimps and fools, I guess some might call them—who take the risk of crossing, with unarmed hands raised in greeting, into the territory of those who know they come from the enemy camp. They have as much courage as any soldier, and when the peaceful message they bring takes hold, they can be even more effective.

    PS Even the ADL says Bill White is a liar. It’s disheartening how many put stock in that white supremacist’s claim that he and Ron Paul were good buddies.

    But there you go, it’s a confusing world full of terror and lies. It’s one step forward and two steps back on the road to a peaceful world, and it will remain that way ‘til Shiloh comes. Keep looking up.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Irene,

    I have faith in the G-d of Israel. He who trusts in the L-rd shall have the L-rd as his security. That is my faith, Irene.

    So, I’m a nationalist who believes in the Tana”ch, and that there will be ultimate reconciliation between the Children of Kedar and Nevayot on the one side, and the Children of Israel on the other. I realize there probably be war first, but I keep the lines of communication open to Arabs.

    This is practical. In a world of fear, distrust and confusion, someone has to stand up and say, “this is the way”, pointing to the Divine Map of the Tana”kh. Someone has to stand up and be without fear, and filled with faith, looking for the best in people. That is the role of Israel in the world, the role of bringing light to a world full of darkness. But Israel is not yet ready for that role. In order to be ready, we will need the Redemption.

    But, Irene, there is more. The issue of seeing to it that we Jews are holy enough to remain in the Land, that we understand the concepts of the Law well enough to keep ourselves holy enough to actually merit remaining in the Land. These issues, not raised in this article, are between Jew and Jew.

    And then, having accomplished this, there is the issue of being knowledgeable enough to guide non-Jews who will seek spiritual guidance from us, as they finally understand the Message of G-d for them clearly. Here, we must move beyond the martyred Rav Kahane.

    Finally, there is the issue of the Ten Lost Tribes. To recognize them, we will need the messiah, because that will be one of his roles as a ruler.

  • Irene Wagner

    Ruvy, just so you know that I haven’t been left speechless by your answer…I’m frustrated because there is so much in it to talk about, and not enough free time to get into it all today–but it’s probably a discussion best saved for different threads, different days, anyway.

    Les Slater’s post advocates cooperation between Arab and Jew against the imperialistic forces of evil. I would never attempt to shame you or anyone else into becoming a defenseless mediator–not that I think Les was trying to shame you into that role, but it might have sounded, after his comment, that I was doing that. I was only pointing out that there already are people courageously filling that role, around the world and in your own country, and being called traitors, wimps and fools for their trouble.

    Yes, truly, there is no nation on earth, not the US, not Israel, not the UN’s mish-mash of the best and worst of them all, having the moral authority to be the Light of the World. There are however individuals who are called to be, not THE Light of the World, but the reflection of His grace and love. They help keep God, who transcends Chaos, foremost in my mind. They, some of them with a different theology from mine! inspire me, in a world full of confusion, hatred, and other provocations of God’s wrath–to keep trusting in the goodness of the Creator.

  • MAOZ

    Rav Kahane — “…may G-d redeem his blood.”
    “redeem his blood”?!
    Where’d that expression come from? Ruvy, are you going soft?!

    Rav Meir Kahane, may G^d avenge his blood.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    MAOZ,

    Like usual, you are right. Are you sure you aren’t King Friday XIII?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Why would God need to avenge anything?

  • Les Slater

    Ruvy,

    I know all the practical problems that you speak of. I wasn’t suggesting any of those that you pointed too. I just suggested “For a start you could at least popularize the fact that it is not the Arab masses that are the enemy of the Jews, that you have ultimately a common enemy in imperialism.” That is, clarify your position and let it be known. You’re all over the place. I never said anything about wandering over into their back yard to plead with them.

    Irene,

    Israel is already a death trap for Jews. Just read Barry Chamish from Ruvy’s #2. “Either way, finally, as Israel burns to cinders or doesn’t, we will have our own sweet victory over the worst curse ever to have plagued us, Labor Zionism.” Ruvy seems to concur. These people are willing to kill everybody, including themselves for their ‘sweet victory’.

    I never suggest anyone be defenseless; the Bolsheviks never suggested that Russian soldiers facing the German front during WWI not defend themselves.

    Les

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Why would God need to avenge anything?

    I was waiting for that question, DD. If you go and read the story of how Cain kills Abel, one of G-d’s reproofs of Cain is that “Abel’s blood cries to me for vengeance!” or something very similar.

    From this comes the idea that when someone is killed, you say of him, hashem y’nakem damo (hy”d) “May G-d avenge his blood.” The z”l in the title comes from the Hebrew zikhrono l’brakha of blessed memory.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Now as to why, DD?

    Murder is wrong. If a man cannot avenge the murder, we call upon the Almighty to do it for us….

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Les,

    How many times have you seen me write that the Arabs are a hammer in the hands of another? And who is that “other”? The oil and banking establishment! Every time I write about this subject, I’m careful to separate out the Wahhabi from the Moslem for this precise reason. Islam is not davka a religion of peace. But it need not be a religion of war, either.

    How many times have you see me call the United States government the worst enemy of this country? And why do you think this is so?

    I do what you ask already, Les.

    Now Barry and I have our differences, but we understand each other. An Arab missile bombardment is as far as Barry wants to go in contemplating what would happen here. I have to go further in my contemplations, as I live here and have no intentions of leaving.

    Once the missiles have fallen, the largely secular traditional Israelis on the coast, finally realizing that they had been played for suckers by the Israeli “power-holders” as their homes burned behind them, will overthrow that leadership and march east with whatever armaments they can gather, murdering and killing as they go. And who will they murder and kill? The Arabs in Qalqilia, Jenin, Sh’khem, Hevron, BetleHem – the ones who survive will flee for the Jordan. Thus Judea and Samaria will be emptied of Arabs. Similar groups of Israelis will march southwest to massacre and drive out the Arabs there, seeking vengeance on Gaza.

    That is what we are facing in the near future, Les.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Ruvy – don’t make me sic Spinoza on you!

  • http://www.davidbenariel.org David Ben-Ariel

    “Is Israel really a Jewish State? Or a Gentilized state of Jews? There is a difference! Are we left to our own devices, our personal preferences, the “Church or synagogue of your choice” mentality? Or does God have something to say to us also?

    Meir Kahane, former Israeli Parliament member, rabbi and author of Uncomfortable Questions for Comfortable Jews, was to the Jewish establishment what Herbert W. Armstrong was to traditional Christianity: an irritating “prophet” who spoke the plain truth!

    If Israel had only listened to Meir Kahane they wouldn’t be staring death in the face today (Dan. 9:11). I was living at Kibbutz Shoval in Israel’s Negev desert, beautifying the grounds, when I heard that he had been murdered in New York by another Arab terrorist. When his funeral took place in Jerusalem, I was honored to attend with tens of thousands of others to show solidarity with what he boldly taught— and as a blond, stood out in the Black Sea of Haredim on TV.”

    –excerpt from Beyond Babylon: Europe’s Rise and Fall – Chapter 3 – TRUTH OR CONSEQUENCES

    Israel’s Betrayal of the Jews

    Israel’s Only Way Out: Follow Kahane!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Let me provide a somewhat synopsized version of Ruvy’s comment on the JDL:

    1. …violently opposed…

    2. …violently opposed…

    3. …made the lives…miserable…

    4. …made it dangerous…

    5. …gave…a taste of the violence…

    7. …they liked gang violence as much as we did…

    8. …scared the living shit out…

    And let me just add that the FBI rated the JDL a higher terrorist threat than any single Islamic group prior to 9/11. 15 terrorist attacks in the US credited to the JDL in a 5 year period at their height in the 1980s. Bombings, burnings, assassinations. Why, they’re HEROES I tell you! HEROES!

    If you oppose terrorism with any honesty, how can you accept a double standard which excuses it based on which insane religiously motivated group it comes from? Eric Rudolph, Meir Kahane and Osama bin Laden are peas in a pod.

    Dave

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    don’t make me sic Spinoza on you!

    Doctor Dreadful,

    Spinoza is not a dog to be sicced upon people with whom you may or may not disagree. Heck, many years ago, a woman asked me to read his seminal work on miracles and their nature, and to rebut it. She had just rediscovered Catholicism and her fallen away (now ex) husband was siccing Spinoza on her! I told her that Spinoza’s work expressed the Jewish point of view accurately.

    Actually, all I ever did in comments #20 and #21 was explain the source of Jewish customs. When we refer to Hitler, for example, many of us say y’mákh sh’mo “may G-d erase his name from under the heavens”. The same thing is true for hashém y’nakém damó, “may G-d avenge his blood”. Those are just requests of the Big Guy upstairs – Who does His Will as He sees fit.

    But your original question was

    The answers to that question are found in the various books of prophecy in the Tana”kh. G-d, speaking through various prophets, explains His answer rather thoroughly. And Spinoza can’t get around those.

    So I refer you to the major and minor prophets of the Hebrew Bible – preferably a Jewish text – for your answers.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Dave,

    You make a number of assumptions here.

    The first assumption is that the FBI is an accurate determiner of what constitutes a terrorist threat. The FBI, like all institutions of the U.S. government, is extremely political in its choices. Like any native born American, I view all institutions of government with a suspicious eye.

    The second assumption is that I oppose terror per se. In a world filled with evil and governed by the Evil Inclination, terror is a weapon in the armory of war/politics, like torture, like cheating, like lying, and should be used judiciously to accomplish aims where needed. Note the term judiciously here, and note the governing condition at the beginning of the previous sentence.

    I realize that I have to take sides in a world at war, which is what the world is, and I oppose the terror of my enemies.

    The fact of the matter is that you are no different from me in your point of view on this subject, as much as you may protest to the contrary – you merely draw your enemies list differently from me.

    The the Jewish Defense League headed by Rav Meir Kahane, z”l, hy”d, was most active from the late 1960’s to the early 1970’s when Rav Kahane accepted leaving for Israel in place of a jail term for weapons possessions. The organization he left behind in the States was a pathetic remnant of the one he himself ran. They tried, but could not match his touch.

    By the mid 1980’s, Rav Kahane had managed to scare the shit out of the thieving Israeli establishment as well as the corrupt and spineless Jewish establishment in the United States. Rav Kahane couldn’t be bought off. He wasn’t intimidated by goons from the Shaba”k beating him up from time to time. The “power brokers” in J-lem saw the polls that indicated that he would have won at least 15 mandates in the Knesset in coming elections and couldn’t stand the idea that their own thievery (like Shimon Peres using the information that Jonathan Pollard gave him to make money) would be questioned by an honest man with real power in the Knesset. The Israeli people could see that a real leader has arisen, even though he came from America. It was just too much for the thieves in the Likud and the Labor party to bear.

    So, in the mid 1980’s, the Israeli government outlawed Kahane’s political party as “racist”.

    They then went to the Americans and asked them to categorize the JDL and any affiliated organizations as terrorist organizations, and the Jew-haters in the State Department, laughing up their own sleeves at how the Israelis were shooting themselves in the foot, happily complied.

    Finally, this answers why Rav Kahane was assassinated in the manner that he was. He was murdered off by an Arab, and this Arab was found not guilty by a jury. What pressures the jurors at the trial of Kahane’s killer had to deal with I do not know, but a deal was cut to get rid of the Rav in such a way that nobody could point the finger of blame at the government of Israel, which wanted him dead, at the government of the United States, which also wanted him dead, or at the spineless bastards in the American Jewish establishment, who wanted him dead more than anyone else.

    The assassination of his son and daughter-in-law in 2000 was also done as an assassination hit . The fingers of the United States government, and the Shaba”k are all over that “terror” attack as well.

    Finally:

    If Rav Kahane was anything like Osama bin Ladin, hundreds of Americans in Jew-hating organizations would have been killed off in a most spectacular way to make it clear that Jews were not to be messed with.

    Your slander and lies drags the reputation of a scholar and hero of my people through the mud. I would say you should be ashamed of yourself, but I know better. You haven’t got the shame in you.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    This from Debkafiles:

    More Palestinian disturbances in Jerusalem Tuesday night

    March 4, 2008, 9:48 PM (GMT+02:00)

    Seven bottle-bombs were lobbed at a border police jeep near Kalandia. Palestinians also hurled rocks at Israeli cars in a second northern district, Pisgat Ze’ev, and the Malcha-Gilo road in the south.

    Sunday, two Jerusalem municipal inspectors were rescued from a lynch mob on an East Jerusalem street and a group of Jewish worshipers attacked at the Rabbi Shimon Hatzadik tomb.

    As I mentioned upthread, the government has decided to re-open the faucet of Arab terror, and that in doing so, will bring its own blood upon its head. Now we are seeing the beginning of the spiraling chaos that will soon strike here. The only question is how soon?

  • http://www.my-virtual-income.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, I don’t share your bleak view of the world as “filled with evil and governed by the Evil Inclination”. If that is truly how you see the world, I feel sorry for you.

    Your attempt to justify the use of terror, torture, cheating and lying is presumably a product of your poisoned and poisonous view of the world, which I would hope most people would join me in rejecting utterly.

    The world is not at war, nor even close to it, no matter how intense things may seem in your little corner of it. I think you need a holiday, the pressure of your chosen lifestyle is clearly getting to you…

  • JustOneMan

    This explains alot..

    High on Mount Sinai, Moses was on psychedelic drugs when he heard God deliver the Ten Commandments, an Israeli researcher claimed in a study published this week.

    Such mind-altering substances formed an integral part of the religious rites of Israelites in biblical times, Benny Shanon, a professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem wrote in the Time and Mind journal of philosophy.

    “As far Moses on Mount Sinai is concerned, it was either a supernatural cosmic event, which I don’t believe, or a legend, which I don’t believe either, or finally, and this is very probable, an event that joined Moses and the people of Israel under the effect of narcotics,” Shanon told Israeli public radio on Tuesday.

    Moses was probably also on drugs when he saw the “burning bush,” suggested Shanon, who said he himself has dabbled with such substances.

    “The Bible says people see sounds, and that is a clasic phenomenon,” he said citing the example of religious ceremonies in the Amazon in which drugs are used that induce people to “see music.”

    He mentioned his own experience when he used ayahuasca, a powerful psychotropic plant, during a religious ceremony in Brazil’s Amazon forest in 1991. “I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations,” Shanon said.

    He said the psychedelic effects of ayahuasca were comparable to those produced by concoctions based on bark of the acacia tree, that is frequently mentioned in the Bible

  • Cannonshop

    As a secular, non-Jew, I have to find myself agreeing with Ruvy, and by extension, the late Rav Kahane. It’s a simple matter of remembering a few ugly truths in the past, and looking at ugly truths in the now.

    The ugly truth is, Appeasement has Never Worked. How did Israel get recognition and a peace treaty from Egypt? By beating the everloving shit out of them and taking half the canal away. In the Middle East, as in most of the world, he who uses force most effectively can have a measure of peace free of slavery. He who can not, will not. Based on a human history of bloodshed and conflict, if your enemy has sworn your destruction, and is as devout as the islamic world, you do not treat it as a jest or negotiation tactic-he wants you dead, and if he wants you dead badly enough, your only path to safety is to kill him first.

    The islamic world, for the most part, rejected the kind of Enlightenment culture that forms much of the basis for “Western thought” more than a century ago-pluralism, democracy, freedom, liberty, even individual responsibility are anathema to the nations and tribes surrounding the Israeli people in their homeland, and the leftist establishment here in the U.S. is more or less sold itself to the “New Left” Socialist movements of the 1960’s- many of whom are just as anti-semitic in nature as the KKK, Nazi Party, or Stalinist Soviets. Corruption, I suspect, is inevitable when Power is involved, the Limousine Liberal is inevitably concerned more with ‘social status’ and ‘respectability’ among his enemies, than defense of his own, whether neighbours, fellow-religionists, countrymen, or culture. Where this might be a minor issue for a Protestant or Catholic christian, when it is a Jew, it is suicidal. Simply put, there are lots and lots of bigots out there, they have no problem denying the Holocaust when in polite company while planning Holocaust V.2.0 in private, or amongst their followers, and appeasing these (censored) is tantamount to collaboration in hopes of dying last.

    Israel is an ally. The Appeasers have already sacrificed Allies before (S. Vietnam, Taiwan, etc. etc. etc.) this has never resulted in a good outcome. I submit to you that it can not result in a good outcome, any more than Chamberlain’s “Peace of Paper” resulted in a desirable outcome.

    On a lower level, it is mind-boggling to presume that a man should submit to the mob, especially when that mob so hates their own children that they raise them to become guided bombs, in hopes of reaping a cash reward provided by foreign princes who exploit their labour yet will not accept them within their borders-except as day-labourers or terrorist recruits, sent to die for the profit of earthly princelings masquerading as holy men.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Hear! Hear! Cannonshop.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Lest anyone reading this article and the comments attached thereto think that I am alone or represent a tiny minority of Israelis in my views, note the words of MK Efayim Eitam in the Knesset this morning.

    From Arutz Sheva.

    (IsraelNN.com) “The day will come when we will banish you from this building and from the national home of the Jewish People,” MK Eitam told Arab MKs during a Knesset session on Wednesday morning. Arab MK Jamal Zakhalka was thrown out of the plenum when he yelled repeatedly at Eitam in response.

    Eitam, an IDF Brig.-Gen. in the reserves and currently a Knesset Member of the National Union party, was referring to an anti-Israel protest held in the Israeli-Arab city of Umm El-Fahm last night, at which Israeli-Arab citizens burned an Israeli flag, carried flags of Syria and the Palestinian Authority, and compared IDF soldiers compared to Nazis. Arab MKs who were present incited the crowd against Israel.

    “We must expel you,” Eitam said in the Knesset, directing his remarks specifically to Arab MKs Zakhalka and Taleb A-Sana, “as well as all those who took part in the traitorous and out-of-control event last night. We must expel you to Gaza.”

    Zakhalka started yelling uncontrollably, “You are a zero of zeroes! A racist! Shut up! Who do you think you are?! You killed babies in Gaza!”

    Eitam continued, “You are self-declared enemies of the State of Israel.” Zakhalka continued to shout, and was then ordered out of the plenum by the acting Speaker, MK Otniel Schneller.

    “Just as you promised the shahids [holy martyrs, killed while trying to murder Jews – ed.] of Gaza that you intend to complete their work,” Eitam said, “I tell you that the day will come when we will banish you from this building and from the national home of the Jewish People. You well deserve it… No democracy can tolerate the type of incitement that was heard last night in Umm El-Fahm.”

    Let it be clearly understood. While the vast majority of us would like to live in peace with Arabs (yes, that majority includes me), the vast majority of the people of this country will only tolerate so much. This is something that the Arabs who would massacre us do not understand, and it will be the death of them as a result.

  • Les Slater

    Ruvy,

    “I do what you ask already, Les.”

    You don’t. You do see and you do write, but that has never been the central thrust of your political arguments. That’s why I remind you of what you do know; and it’s not just for your benefit. You do have credibility and it is good to point out that you do understand what the fundamental issues really are. You are very honest, and courageous about this and don’t ever deny your understanding, but you proceed as if the fundamentals have nothing to do with anything; they’re just not connected, just floating in air.

    You then go on to paint a bleak picture of how you see things unfolding and conclude, “That is what we are facing in the near future, Les.”

    I may agree or not agree with your analysis, it’s certainly logical. The problem is that your conclusions are passive and static. You’re reduced to a color commentator, as if reporting on a sports event. The color you provide is superficial; you often, if not usually, wander from the fundamentals. You say you’re not a fatalist and that you have tried, and did not succeed in altering anything, or at least very little. All of us have a lot more power than we are lead to believe. Most are beaten down and feel powerless. I believe you’re smart enough, courageous, and above all honest, too honest to just give up.

    Les

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Les,

    I very rapidly learned that the average guy, unless he knows people, can accomplish little around here. Realists article “Power Outage to the People” applies here far more than in America, where there is a reasonably healthy local system of government, even if the state and national systems are corrupted entirely.

    Here, getting anything done requires either baksheesh or bullets, or the threat of one combined with the other. Without the grease, you can’t grease the wheels. I must remind you, this is the MIDDLE EAST where the bribe is an art form. If you can’t convince people that you are serious, they don’t even bother asking mi ábba shelkhá? – literally who is your father? – “who is backing you up in the bureaucracy?”

    The only thing that will stop the disaster I see coming is a revolution that will kick out Olmert, Peres, Livni and the rest of the ass-kissing shitheads, and put in someone who is not afraid of shooting off nukes and destroying the High Aswan Dam. That is the only thing that the Arabs will understand – the threat of imminent genocide. Barring that, we have the officious assholes ruining the country, we have the officious assholes from America and Europe overseeing the ruination of the country, and we have folks like me, floating in debt, struggling to make a living, and not necessarily armed.

    It doesn’t matter what we say (whatever our opinions may be) until a war breaks up this pattern, and “frees the electrons from their orbits” if you get my meaning. So, in reality, expecting such a war is the outlook of an optimist, not a pessimist.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    I did forget though, Les. Thank you for the kind words, praise and encouragement….

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    #26: Oy, Ruvy, no need to bite my head off. The Jewish sense of humor is one of the most sublime in the world – what happened to your share?

    What I was getting at was Spinoza’s idea that everything in the universe is part of God – goodness, misfortunes, everything. So asking God to avenge you is effectively asking him to avenge himself, which is absurd.

    I don’t think Spinoza was trying to ‘get around’ the Prophets – he was working up his own ethics as much as possible. And his attitude towards misfortune is somewhat unrealistic in terms of human emotions.

    Assuming the existence of such a deity, it’s a question of whether the Jewish custom provides a mechanism for you to ‘let go’, having petitioned God for a redress of your grievances. As you say, he would address your petition as he saw fit. I’m just not entirely sure whether this ritual repetition of your desire for God to rip your enemy’s metaphysical head off is very healthy…

    I tend to agree with Bertrand Russell’s assessment:

    “When it is your lot to have to endure something that is (or seems to you) worse than the ordinary lot of mankind, Spinoza’s principle of thinking about the whole, or at any rate about larger matters than your own grief, is a useful one. There are even times when it is comforting to reflect that human life, with all that it contains of evil and suffering, is an infinitesimal part of the life of the universe. Such reflections may not suffice to constitute a religion, but in a painful world they are a help towards sanity and an antidote to the paralysis of utter despair.”

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    One of the very few stories that generate hope in me that I see here is one of a young girl arrested for pushing an Arab three months ago According to this story in Arutz Sheva, she is still in prison because she refuses even to give her name or recognize the authority of the State. She has served several days in solitary confinement for refusing to conform with prison regulations. Her situation has inspired

    Dudi, a “concerned citizen” who lives in the Galilee, has taken upon himself to be the public relations agent for the Sariel family. Asked why, he told Arutz-7, “I greatly admire the way that Tzviyah has chosen to wage her struggle, and I feel it should be promoted. The State has become disloyal to its own ideals of fairness and democracy, and we need people to stand up and say so openly.”

    This has not been the first time that the Sariel kids have been in such a conflict with the judicial system here.

    Moshe Dann, writing about her about thee years ago noted that,

    For two and a half months 15 yr old Tirtza Sariel from the Jewish community of Elon Moreh waged a battle for civil and human rights – from a jail cell in Israeli maximum security prisons.

    Arrested for allegedly kicking over a pail of olives in a dispute with Arabs near Ma’ale Levona, where she attends Ulpana (high school for religious girls), she was brought before a court where she refused to recognize the court’s legitimacy and authority because it did not function according to Jewish law. In addition, she questioned her arrest for something quite trivial, and discrimination; no Arabs were even detained and the police accepted their version. She therefore refused to sign court documents for her release because it violated her principles.

    Judge Uri Ben-Dor held her in contempt and ordered her imprisoned until she relented. He also ordered her sent for psychiatric examination – a judicial abuse of psychiatry.

    Tirtza was imprisoned not because she had committed a crime (since no trial had taken place) but because of her views – the classic definition of a political prisoner.

    Finally, over Prosecution objections (they wanted to “teach her a lesson”), Judge Noam Solberg released Tirtza from prison without conditions.

    In the Arutz Sheva article linked to above he is quoted as having written about her sister,

    “Tzviyah is crying out against the way in which Israel’s judicial system uses cruel and unusual punishments against people who protest government policies,” writes Moshe Dann, a journalist who has been following the case. Though some in her situation choose to fight from within, by getting a good lawyer and the like, “people like Tzviyah are trying to show that the charges themselves are politically motivated and without merit. Hiring lawyers and fighting in court means accepting the legitimacy of the court and respecting its judgments. They want to show that the judicial system itself is biased and corrupted.”

    “The willingness of courts to punish anyone, especially children, [simply] for what they think,” Dann writes, “is a chilling indication of how close we are to dictatorship. Forced to suffer jail, they are desperately trying to sound an alarm [that] there’s something more important than ‘Law and Order’ – and it’s called morality. As a society, we dare not remain deaf to their pleas.”

    In short, some are unwilling anymore to recognize the authority of the State, a state that has become so thoroughly corrupt and bereft of its ideals, it is not worth recognition.

    This is sign for hope indeed that Redemption is on the way.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    DD,

    My sense of humor got lost somewhere between the unpaid bills and the dealings with people who prove how unreliable this society by their own unreliability – even my sense of humor is running out on me….

    The idea of chutzpah – properly spelled Hutzpá – is also basic to the Jewish character. So asking G-d to avenge the blood of a person is asking Him to punish the evil in the universe He has allowed to exist – even though, as you correctly point out, it too is part and parcel of His Creation. Remember, both Abraham and Moses were willing to argue with G-d and hold Him to a sense of justice.

    Mere mortals standing up to the timeless Creator of the Universe? What Hutzpá!! G-d must have been very proud when that happened….

  • Irene Wagner

    Assuming allegations of pushing Arabs or tipping olive buckets are false (and even in the hypothetical case that they weren’t) it does seem those young women were treated awfully unfairly and even cruelly, Ruvy. I’m glad someone took up for them. That is a bright spot.

    ***Now, about taking up for people, and a question about the Ten Commandments. If one breaks the commandment forbidding bearing false witness against one’s neighbor (and certainly one’s neighbor doesn’t ONLY mean Jews does it?) would it be God-honoring to make some sort of restitution to the person slandered, after one is informed that one has based one’s character assasination on information that has been proven to lack substance or is even demonstrably false?

    Exposing the errors of people holding, or seeeking to hold, public office is a right and for some people, even a duty, but it’s important to be able to back up accusations against anyone we speak ill of with videos, in-context quotes, or other matters of public record for which the authorship of the one being accused is certifiable.

    PS I know of someone who’s good name has been dragged through the mud like that. He might not be able to solve Israel’s problems entirely, but–even if he fails to win the office he seeks–his ability and drive to expose the neocons, bankers and assorted others operating in the US who are a major part of Israel’s problem–that would go at least some distance in ameliorating the situation of your homeland should Messiah tarry.

    Do you know how you feel when you hear insults to the memory of someone who was and is important to you, someone like Rabbi Meir Kahane? That’s the way I feel when someone continues the meme that Ron Paul is a white supremacist, a Jew-hater, and in general, a bigot.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Actually, Irene, the Torah, of which the commandment not to bear false witness is part, applies only to the Children of Israel.

    But the Noahide Code, the Seven Laws of Noah, a subset of the Ten Commandments, applies to all of mankind, and adherence to them are the basis of civilized behavior. Part of the Noahide Code requires the setting up of courts to enforce the other six laws, and bearing false witness perverts any system of courts or justice.

    And now we come to the instant case you raise, that of Congressman Ron Paul. The evidence that people use to accuse Ron Paul of bigotry sits on the internet, and unfortunately, appears in many cases, to be of his own hand. I may or may not be willing to believe Eric Dondero; I know first hand just how much a close associate can lie about someone. But if Dr. Paul has authored the piece himself, I have no choice.

    I never heard of the good man before this presidential election season, and had not Paulbots come swarming out to plug his candidacy, the evidence from the internet might have been of little or no importance at all. But the evidence of his views remains, nonetheless, ready to bite his butt every time he raises his voice.

    That’s the problem with the internet. There is no forgiving, and no forgetting, and those of us with long memories know just where to look to dig out the trash on anybody. In all fairness, this can be applied to me as well as anybody else, and one who goes through my own comments here can see that.

    So the question that really applies in Dr. Paul’s case is: does he still have the views now that he seemed to espouse earlier? The important point here is that he is still alive to answer that question: Rav Meir Kahane, z”l, hy”d, is not. Dr. Paul was not assassinated; nor was his son or daughter-in-law.

    Given that, and given that his presidential candidacy is dead, he may be a bit more accessible to you. You can ask him these questions yourself and satisfy yourself of his honesty and good name.

    Now, since you mention the messiah, I just wish to add that the only way I know of to get a clean electronic slate, so that wee can all start afresh over again, is to set off a powerful electro-magnetic pulse that will make this computer and all other electronics worthless, and thus erase the comments of Dr. Ron Paul, and others from under the heavens.

    So expect to see such a pulse, or something with similar effects, during the Redemption at some time or another.

  • JustOneMan

    Ruvy…maybe you havent heard “the good news” but the Messiah was here already..in fact he was a Jew named Jesus…

    JOM

  • Irene Wagner

    JOM you add whole vistas of depth to the little ditty “Please be as patient as can be, God’s still working on me. I know the paint is still a little wet, God’s not done with me yet.”

    The holy servant in Isaiah 53 had that kind of patience with people. My patience is still a work in progress.

  • Irene Wagner

    Ruvy….if If IF…that’s the operative word in your sentence: “But if Dr. Paul has authored the piece himself, I have no choice…I never heard of the good man before this presidential election season, and had not Paulbots come swarming out to plug his candidacy…”

    Only Christians are commanded to love their enemies, but Jews have no such law. Ron Paul is NOT your enemy, Ruvy. To avoid bearing false witness against someone who could, if not as President, then from his recently successfully defended position as Congressman, magnify a thousand-fold your own passionate efforts towards exposing and defeating a rat’s nest of corruption–it behooves you to be CONVINCED that the all important “IF” is actually a “since.”

    By all means, Ruvy, use the internet to do your research. Google “Bill White” and “Eric Dondero” (whom Ron Paul fired a number of years back.) Read, not just the material that backs up your view that ALL American politicians are corrupt, but read EVERYTHING–or at least a true cross-section–of what you find about them there. Be sure not to miss Bill White’s post to the VNN site under the name “ANSWP Commander” (American National Socialist Worker’s Party) date-stamped one week before Kirchick’s “Angry White Man” in which he brags about being tapped as one of Kirchick’s sources for the article–and his reason for wanting to help destroy him: too many Jews supporting him.

    Watch and listen to the defense of Ron Paul by Nelson Linder, Austin’s NAACP leader, who has known Ron Paul personally for twenty years.

    Yeah, I’m a “Paulbot.” I’ll post things about Max Boot, and Obama’s waffling on the war, and McCain’s foreign policy advisers being neocons—but I can back it all up by their faces and words on VIDEO or links to writings they’re PROUD to have authored. There’s something more than Ron Paul’s good name that is at stake here, though.

    Ruvy, the status of Ron Paul’s presidential candicacy is beside the point. It’s a matter of character–YOURS. It’s ESPECIALLY important for people who openly affiliate themselves with a Holy God to demonstrate a commitment to the truth, a sober recognition of the power of words to serve evil purposes or good.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Irene, one thing you’re NOT is a Paulbot.

    You have strong and considered reasons for your support of the good doctor, which you have communicated to us with great clarity and persuasiveness.

    The Paulbots are the ones who show up on any Paul-related thread to mindlessly parrot the talking points they’ve been fed by other Paulbots.

    A dead giveaway is that if you criticize Dr Paul in any way, a Paulbot will react as if you’d insulted his mother.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Irene,

    I would never believe the accusations of someone else that a person is bigoted. I thought I made that plain in my comments above.

    I would only take the work of the man himself.

    The New Republic went after Paul, and its articles were hatchet jobs. But the links were not necessarily hatchet jobs and that’s the point. Someone at BC originally posted this stuff, and that is how I knew about it. I honestly forgot who posted the article at BC. I have supplied two links below.

    One link at the New Republic article was obviously scanned onto a file from a mimeograph machine. Is it actually Congressman Ron Paul? If I were him, I’d cry forgery. But the content does not necessarily cry forgery.

    The second link mentions Israel by name. But there is nothing that indicates that this is from Ron Paul.

    This is the link to the New Republic article.

    As I said, the article itself, and all the New Republic articles going after Ron Paul were hatchet jobs designed to kill his support. But were the links real?

    It’s enough to throw serious question on him, even if it isn’t condemnatory on its face. This, in spite of the fact that generally, I agree with much of his conspiracy claims. One cannot argue that the sources are taken out of context. The entire article or letter is present in both instances. The issue is entirely, are these the works of Congressman Ron Paul?

    Liberal Jews would get all upset over this. I do not get so upset. If these links are real, then it means that Ron Paul says all the right things, but he is no friend of my people. If they are not, it doesn’t.

    So, it is not as if I do not understand your point of view. You honestly admire the man and resent when others keep dragging out the same old shit with these allegations. But if these links do indeed come from Congressman Ron Paul, there is reason for me to question his ultimate attitude towards my people.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Ruvy, been reading about the shootings over there this evening. Not sure how close you are to the school that was attacked, but just wanted to check and make sure you and yours are OK.

    I know your kids are of about seminary age, so I did wonder…

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Thank you for the concern, DD.

    In fact, I heard about the shooting attack on the radio, copied notes in Hebrew and there is now an article in pending on it (with a request for expedited treatment).

    My kids are of age to have been shot at such a school, but the terrorists did not attack where either of my kids were, thank G-d. One is home with us in Ma’alé Levoná (which is a distance from Jerusalem), and the other is staying with a friend in Armon haNetziv, which is where we used to live in Jerusalem.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Irene,

    There is one other thing I should add to my comments about Dr. Ron Paul. Until I saw the links I posted above in comment #46, I was inclined to look at him through your sympathetic lenses. I didn’t think he had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting elected president, and even in the unlikely event that he was elected, the boys at the CFR would shovel their own anti-Israel agenda down his throat. But, I wasn’t hostile to the man.

    At this point, if Congressman Paul still retains the views he seemed to express in the links I posted, the only Jews in any danger from him live in his congressional district.

  • Adam

    As an American Jew I disagree. I think overall Kahane has done tremendous harm to American Jewry overall and his worst impact was to American Jewry. The publicaton he wrote for the Jewish Press always was slandering Jewish men and Rabbi Kahane was silent about this. My own mother took out a lot of her anger out on me in my view because of the propoganda of this newspaper as well as others. A few people connected may have benefited from him but I certainlly did not as my mother was took angry about Jewish men to allow me to learn any self defense and that is the case with many American boys is their own mothers want them to be helpless. His paper the Jewish Press has a lot to do with this in addition to causing a severe single crisis which is making Orthodoxy Judaism in America irrelevant for this reason as well.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Adam,

    In the final analysis, if Judaism is becoming irrelevant in America (and from what I saw, it was and still is), this was not due to anything Kahane wrote or said. It was and is due to Jews running away from who they are.

    You don’t need your mother’s permission to take self-defense courses of any kind – unless you are a small child.

    As for the “singles” crisis plaguing American Jewry, could this be more from American Jews being interested in themselves alone – and winding up that way – alone?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    One of the tragedies of living in Israel today is that in order to get at truth, you need to hear voices from the grave. Today’s The “power holders” in Jerusalem are showing what gutless bastards they are.

  • Ruvy

    I ran into this by trolling at Arutz Sheva to see what the news of the day was. One article spoke of a group, the Jewish Internet Defense Force crippling a large Jew-hating group on Facebook. When I went to their site, I found this video on the book this article deals with. Watch the video. You may learn something.

    Good news all around, I’d say.

    Now that Barack Obama has the Democratic nomination in hand, it is time for Jews in America to admit to the painful truth that Rav Meir Kahane, hy”d, z”l, WAS RIGHT, and that the Jewish establishment was wrong – and that they are still wrong.