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The War on Capitalism: A Reminiscence from 2034

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“Grandad,” the little girl said, “where were you when the war began?”

“Well, back in those days we lived in America and I was like a lot of people and worked for a small business. I worked very hard and I had good people who worked with me, and they worked hard like I did. Sometimes we worked 60 or 70 hours a week, but we earned good money and made our customers happy and we provided well for our families. Most of us had even put away money to start our own businesses or pay for a nice retirement.”

“But what did that have to do with the war, Grandad?”

“You see, at first we didn’t know it was a war at all. We thought the nation was in trouble and they were trying to save us. We thought they were heroes and wise men. But pretty soon they came to our town with government work programs which paid what they called a ‘prevailing union wage’ and a lot of our workers went to work for the government contractors. Our boss raised our wages to keep us on, but prices for everything were going up and pretty soon we had fewer and fewer customers, and even though we were earning a lot more, with the higher prices we were barely scraping by. The stock market went down and never recovered and we had to spend our savings at a quarter of what they had once been worth. They passed policies to help the poor and hurt the rich, but they actually targeted everyone who worked hard to help those who had no ambition.”

“What did you do then, Grandad?”

“When we had nothing left union organizers came to talk to us and some of my coworkers got really excited about how the unions could raise our wages and get us better contracts and new pensions. We held a vote and I would have voted against the union, but our votes weren’t going to be secret and I was afraid some of the other workers would be angry if I didn’t vote for the union, so I even went along.”

“Unions are good, Grandad. My teacher is from America. She wears a pin for hers and tells us they helped save the country.”

“Well, this union did get our wages raised and they got our hours reduced to only 35 hours a week, but that meant we weren’t really earning any more money per week, just per hour. And with the new taxes to pay for national healthcare and expanded social security and national debt reduction, even though our hourly wage was three times what it had been a few years before, we were taking home less than half of that pay and when we spent it everything had become so expensive we could barely feed our families.”

“So what happened, Grandad?”

“Well, one day our boss got us all together and he looked like he had been crying. He told us that he was going to have to shut down the business which had been in his family for 60 years, because he just couldn’t make enough money to justify the hard work he did every week. With the dollar worth so much less and executive salaries capped by the government and taxes so high, his family was barely scraping by too.”

“Was your boss old? Did he retire?”

“No, darling, he got a job supervising a factory in China. He retired years later to a condo in Phuket with a medal as a ‘Hero of the Peoples Economic Struggle.'”

“What next, Grandad? Were you unemployed?”

“I was one of the lucky ones. Since I had been a supervisor, I was able to get job as a manager in a slave factory in Indonesia. Most of my coworkers were less lucky. They turned to the union for help but the union was out of money. So they went on unemployment and then the dole, and now their children and grandchildren rake leaves and count crickets for the government.”

“So who won the ‘War on Greed,’ Grandad?”

“It was a war. No one wins wars. I guess that we all lost in the end. Except maybe the bureaucrats. They gained more power and more jobs. Or the Chinese who took our old ideas and made them work for them. But don’t call it the ‘War on Greed’ or even the ‘War on Capitalism’ like some still call it. To me it will always be the ‘War on the American Dream.’ You see they thought that the American Dream was about everyone having enough to get by, not about having the opportunity to be your best and achieve greatness. So they made war on us and our hopes and our dreams and we all lost. Now go read Sura 9:1-8 and write out three ways that Dhimmis can serve the Caliphate and Allah’s Hand on Earth.”

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About Dave Nalle

  • http://www.indyboomer46.blogspot.com Baritone

    Those filthy commie bastards!

  • Lumpy

    I already had a discussion quite like this with a politically insensible (but quite cute) neighbor explaining the current situatiion.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    And?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    That last line tossing in the Qur’an was pretty good, Dave. Nice job….

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Nice concept, Dave. I was under the impression, however, that the American Dream was somewhat more inclusive. You didn’t have to get stinking rich, just sufficiently so to afford a house, a nice car, etc. Running a small business, perhaps, like a butcher or a baker shop.

    Are we running out of those options? What say you?

    Roger

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Well, Roger, in the article I didn’t suggest that the protagonist had aspirations of being “stinking rich.” He says “Most of us had even put away money to start our own businesses or pay for a nice retirement.” I think that suggests more or less the same vision of the American dream you’re talking about.

    And yes, the American Dream isn’t necessarily being Bill Gates or dominating the universe. It’s about being self-sufficient, your own boss and living on your own terms. The problem is that the war on ‘excessive’ wealth and success destroys that dream as fallout, because the conditions which make independence and self-sufficiency possible cannot exist without the possibility that some few people will capitalize on them to become mega-successful and ‘excessively’ rich. So to shut down the extreme cases you have to shut down the whole system.

    Dave

  • STM

    Better to be in charge of an Indo slave factory than Red!

  • STM

    Also Dave, if you’re ever thinking you might like to write some future-related science-fiction (or science fantasy), perhaps as a screenwriter or something, can I give you a bit of advice: Don’t give up the day job.

  • pablo

    Hey Nalle,

    You see Chuck Baldwin on Alex Jones yesterday man?

    Jones broke the story of the Missouri State Police profiling as domestic terrorists guys who vote for third party candidates. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

    Go Alex Jones!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Dave,

    Granted about “the American Dream” comment. Done it only for emphasis’ sake.

    Re, STM’s comment (#8), I think it was rather harsh. You do have a nice concept there, but you can’t explain to a five-year old the “War on Capitalism” in the terms that you do (and that, I believe, was the point of STM’s remark). You have to break it down somewhat.

    I think the potential could be there, but it would require some work.

    Roger

  • Cindy

    He said: “Most of us had even put away money to start our own businesses or pay for a nice retirement.”

    Then he’s confabulating or just lying. Of course, it depends on who he means by ‘us’.

  • bliffle

    This parable is too lead-footed to get more than about 1/4 through, and not entertaining enough to justify the effort.

  • REMF(MCH)

    “You didn’t have to get stinking rich, just sufficiently so to afford a house, a nice car, etc.”

    With fortified compounds optional.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    STM, this isn’t supposed to be a script for a drama. It’s a parable as someone pointed out later. I’d write it very differently if it was intended for a dramatic production.

    Then he’s confabulating or just lying. Of course, it depends on who he means by ‘us’.

    ‘Us’ means the long-term employees of a successful small business. People earning a reasonable wage and part of the middle class. People I know a lot of and who are the unintended targets of the War on Capitalism.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    And Pablo, I’m sure that being a fan of Alex Jones will get you profiled as a domestic terrorist too.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Then he’s confabulating or just lying. Of course, it depends on who he means by ‘us’.

    I am one of “us,” at least I was until the Market started its freefall. So was virtually everyone I call “friend” in the real (as opposed to the virtual) world.

    Fortunately, I had long ago decided I didn’t want to stop working until death forced me into it, because now it looks like that’s exactly what will happen.

  • Cindy

    ‘Us’ means the long-term employees of a successful small business. People earning a reasonable wage and part of the middle class. People I know a lot of and who are the unintended targets of the War on Capitalism.

    Yes, okay, I’ll buy that. In the parable, ‘Us” is the workers who are ‘successful’ in the American Dream–the ones who didn’t get so completely screwed over by the Capitalists themselves, they believed they still had some stake in the game.

    In other words, what is shaping up to be a minuscule drop in the bucket and/or people who still have some money so they don’t have to admit being screwed over.

  • Baronius

    Wow! Chuck Jones knows Alec Baldwin?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Cindy, I realize things look different up there in the rust belt, but it’s only a small part of the country. Your viewpoint is tainted by environment. In most of the country entrepreneurs and small businesses still dominate the economy and the work environment and pay a fair wage and treat workers decently, because that’s how you build loyalty and productivity.

    The industrial model which supports your anarchist fantasies is breaking down. The huge industrial giant with dronelike workers is now the anomaly rather than the rule, and it’s a relic of the past — just like anarchism — in developed countries.

    Get out and about the country. The middle class and the entrepreneurial class is vibrant and growing and productive and will save the country, if Obama’s War on Capitalism doesn’t destroy them.

    dave

  • Cindy

    Dave,

    Actually, I have been watching world news just about every day since early December. I’m not basing anything I say about what is happening in my area. Have you seen the number of riots and occupations around the world? Are you paying attention to this news Dave? You have to look for it. MSM isn’t bringing it to you–yet.

    It’s only the beginning. Governments are scared–they’re taking away “rights”. Imagine a Democracy trying to enforce a law about clothing–like no hoods or masks in Greece.

    Let me repeat that, it’s important: people in the U.S. are not getting the news about what is happening worldwide as a result of the economic crisis. China isn’t even letting that news out. It seems they are punishing reporters for reporting it.

    I am in D.C. right now. I talk to cab drivers, doormen, etc. In NYC every time I smoked I talked to some working person. Guess what? These people aren’t agreeing with you.

    Dave, I don’t recognize just those people you included, as valid people.

    Wasn’t your story about the world Dave? remember what I said about it depending on who “us” is? Well maybe that is your “us”.

    “[Your us]…is shaping up to be a minuscule drop in the bucket”…of the whole world.” –me

  • bliffle

    The “War On Capitalism”, history will show, was fought by capitalists. And they won: they destroyed capitalism!

    Just another example of societal suicide. Just like communism.

    IIRC, Oscar Wilde wrote:

    “For each man kills the thing he loves
    by each let this be heard,
    the brave man does it with a sword
    the coward with a word”

    And we had a plentiful supply of wordy cowards.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Well, maybe it won’t turn out as badly as Dave foresees it. Here is an inspirational article about a wonderful Utopian land where people who don’t want to work live well and aren’t dependent on capitalist slave drivers.

    Sadly, even some of those folks are not completely happy.

    Jean Thompson, right, with son Steven and granddaughter Jessica, who says: ‘It is my right to claim benefits’. All ten members of her family share a three-bedroom council house

    “The only problem is,” she says without a hint of irony, “that we’re living in a three-bedroom council house, which is ridiculous.

    “I’m asking the council for a ten-bedroom home for all of us. We need more space. It’s awful sometimes when all the children are squabbling. Still, we do have a big TV with Sky, but we need some relaxation.”

    This brings tears to my eyes; such despair even in Utopia!

    Dan(Miller)

    Head bowed, shuffles despondently away to dream of a better place.

  • Clavos

    I think it’s unconscionable that the Council forces those 10 people to live in a three bedroom house. Disgusting.

    Does the British government lack all compassion?

    I urge Secretary Sebelius to contact the Thompson family and offer to bring them to the US, where we can show them true compassion for the unfortunate among us. It may be difficult to find a 10 bedroom house, but the Department of HHS could easily build them one, perhaps a nice waterfront one (or even one on a beach) in Florida — I’m sure they would feel much more appreciated than they do in London, and besides, the climate’s better.

    I’ve always known those Poms are selfish bastards. No wonder we revolted.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Meanwhile, here in Texas 10 Mexicans voluntarily live in a 2 bedroom apartment, sleeping in shifts and saving enough money to send home to support their families, and they consider themselves lucky. And I find them inspirational.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Slavery is what it is, Sir. Slavery plain and simple. Despicable! But don’t fret. When the Red Revolution Comes, and Sir Winston Churchill is exhumed and forced to smoke a three cent cigar*, there will be changes. These people will live in the lap of luxury they so richly deserve. And Nobody will have to pay a cent for it! Not only that, but they won’t have to worry about buying gasoline or paying mortgages.

    Dan(Miller)

    *Surely someone must remember that Revolutionary song from just a few years back. No? Oh well.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Actually, I have been watching world news just about every day since early December. I’m not basing anything I say about what is happening in my area. Have you seen the number of riots and occupations around the world? Are you paying attention to this news Dave? You have to look for it. MSM isn’t bringing it to you–yet.

    I watch the world news too, but my take on it is very different from yours. While anarchism may play a role in these protests, it is a political dead-end. It cannot have a lasting influence. As we’ve seen again and again, movements which start with anarchism fail unless they develop a more broad-based constituency. In Europe that’s going to be an uphill struggle for the decimated middle class to reassert itself against the legions of bureaucrats.

    It’s only the beginning. Governments are scared–they’re taking away “rights”. Imagine a Democracy trying to enforce a law about clothing–like no hoods or masks in Greece.

    As a point of fact, governments cannot actually take the rights away, they can just prevent their exercise. As for hoods and masks, while I agree people ought to have the right to wear them, you’re never going to start a revolution until you’re willing to stand up and be counted under your own name and showing your own face.

    Let me repeat that, it’s important: people in the U.S. are not getting the news about what is happening worldwide as a result of the economic crisis. China isn’t even letting that news out. It seems they are punishing reporters for reporting it.

    As you may recall, or not, I wrote an article about suppression of media in China last summer. And yes, the economic crisis is our first concern here. I think that’s understandable.

    I am in D.C. right now. I talk to cab drivers, doormen, etc. In NYC every time I smoked I talked to some working person. Guess what? These people aren’t agreeing with you.

    Or maybe they’re just agreeing with you to be polite? People in the service industries have a moitivation to do that.

    Dave, I don’t recognize just those people you included, as valid people.

    You dismiss the majority of the population of the US as not being ‘valid people’? This is why your ‘movement’ will never go anywhere. Revolutions cannot succeed until they are embraced by the productive classes.

    “[Your us]…is shaping up to be a minuscule drop in the bucket”…of the whole world.” –me

    Truthfully, Cindy, a great deal of the whole wide world doesn’t matter at all. They aren’t at a point in their economic and political development where their problems are relevant.

    Dave

  • Cindy

    From Dan S.(Miller)’s article on the shameless folks:

    With thousands of children growing up in families where their parents and grandparents have never worked, a senior government adviser warned this week of a “terrible legacy” of youngsters who had no expectation of ever getting a job.

    Good, then they won’t be disappointed like all the people who actually expect to get one.

    Meanwhile, here in Texas 10 Mexicans voluntarily live in a 2 bedroom apartment, sleeping in shifts and saving enough money to send home to support their families, and they consider themselves lucky. And I find them inspirational. –Dave

    There is that word again “voluntarily”. Ah, I only wished Uncle Milton were still alive. We could do fun* stuff to him so he would voluntarily reward us with riches.

    *New definitions are what is needed here, just to make sure we’re not torturing anyone. What kind of people would do that?

  • Cindy

    You dismiss the majority of the population of the US as not being ‘valid people’?

    How? They’re just not as far into the problem as the rest of the world–yet.

    I saw a huge problem coming on when, businesswise, I noticed my rent, my state fees, my electric bill, my heat bill, what my suppliers wanted to charge me, what my customers wanted/were able to pay, the increase in people in the field asking me for a job…

    …and non-business factors: I looked at the housing prices and thought–how many people can be making all that much money?, my real estate taxes (which I can’t afford), the budgeting problems of local and state governments.

    This was all when you were suggesting everything was fine Dave. I really think you just don’t see the problem yet. (again)

  • Cindy

    …a great deal of the whole wide world doesn’t matter at all. They aren’t at a point in their economic and political development where their problems are relevant.

    What do you mean? People all over the world are suffering as a result of Capitalism and specifically what the U.S. has done. You don’t think they are advanced enough to matter? How doesn’t their suffering matter when clearly it’s caused by such an economically and politically advanced nation as the U.S.?

    I really am not sure what you mean. But it sounds like it would result in something like the old why sweatshops are good argument with a twist–it’s okay to injure people because they’re less advanced.

    They’re problems–like survival–aren’t relevant?

    To whom?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    This was all when you were suggesting everything was fine Dave. I really think you just don’t see the problem yet. (again)

    I don’t believe I’ve ever suggested that things were fine in the rust belt. The problems there are obvious and quite real. But they don’t necessarily extend to the entire nation or the entire economy or the entire world for that matter. There are problems here and everywhere, but they aren’t all the same problems or equally bad.
    What do you mean? People all over the world are suffering as a result of Capitalism and specifically what the U.S. has done.

    Bull. They aren’t suffering as a result of capitalism or anything the US has done. They are suffering because of corrupt leadership and institutional oppression and extremist ideologies and governments which disregard the needs and rights of their people. Very little of that has anything to do with capitalism.

    You don’t think they are advanced enough to matter? How doesn’t their suffering matter when clearly it’s caused by such an economically and politically advanced nation as the U.S.?

    Because your claims are meaningless dogma repeated without substance to back them up. The US is not oppressing anyone and capitalism as a system is not oppressing anyone either. Those who oppress others in the name of profit should be held individually responsible and the blame should attach to them not capitalism.

    This is a classic example of what I’m talking about when I refer to the ‘War on Capitalism’, where people attempt to blame the system rather than the corrupt individuals who abuse it or go outside it for their own benefit.

    I really am not sure what you mean. But it sounds like it would result in something like the old why sweatshops are good argument with a twist–it’s okay to injure people because they’re less advanced.

    It’s not okay to intentionally harm people, but capitalism brings opportunity in the third world, not intentional harm. The fact that they are less advanced industrially and economically does determine their role in the economy whether you like it or not. You can’t instantly transform them into rocket scientists and financiers overnight, thought that will come eventually.

    They’re problems–like survival–aren’t relevant?

    They are relevant to them, but they aren’t relevant to US domestic policy in any way that I can tell.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, David. She does subscribe to an anarchist tradition, so there’s a fat chance you’re going to convince her as to the merits of any system – capitalistic least of all.

    Heck, you would have just as much of a problem talking about liberal democracies.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The odd part, Dave is: most Americans weren’t really jealous or envious of the success achieved by others, their bosses, even the CEOs. There was a limited “keeping up with the Joneses” kind of attitude. You certainly didn’t want your next-door neighbor to greatly “outshine” you, so you tried to keep up the appearances; if he got a brand-new model car, you felt compelled to get one, too. Small shit.

    Of course the configuration has changed once these bubbles had started.

    I’d think I just bring this up for the sake of perspective.

  • Cindy

    You can’t instantly transform them into rocket scientists and financiers overnight, thought that will come eventually.

    Yeah, apparently first you have to do things like install dictatorships (that agree with your economic agenda), kill off enough people to cause fear of rebellion, privatize all of the institutions that served them, arrange to have their land removed from their use and then make sure they make it to the maquiladora factories or sweatshops where they can live in polluted tent cities without services while you can feel like a hero for offering them slave labor.

    Besides, why does being a financiers or a rocket scientist give one more worth as a human being than being anyone else?

    They are relevant to them, but they aren’t relevant to US domestic policy in any way that I can tell.

    What does your parable have to do with US domestic policy? Your story was about the world right? The characters in your story would include the people of the whole world, no? Even the anti-capitalists of just the US couldn’t change the whole world, could they?

    I’m not surprised that the whole world changed in your story and we are supposed to cry over a few people who represent nada to the world.

    Anyway, that is what I am responding to–your story.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    If you deprive capitalism and imperialism of their teeth, they’d be alright.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’ve finally got your number, Clav:

    “So was virtually everyone I call ‘friend’ in the real (as opposed to the virtual) world.”

    Well, you said it.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “The middle class and the entrepreneurial class is vibrant and growing and productive”

    Somewhat of an overstatement, Dave. I find it rather hard to believe, even though I’m stuck in KY right now. From what my friends in California tell me, it’s blues all over. Alameda, where I lived, was a vibrant little town but now business are closing, jobs disappearing, and people are depressed.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    The odd part, Dave is: most Americans weren’t really jealous or envious of the success achieved by others, their bosses, even the CEOs. There was a limited “keeping up with the Joneses” kind of attitude. You certainly didn’t want your next-door neighbor to greatly “outshine” you, so you tried to keep up the appearances; if he got a brand-new model car, you felt compelled to get one, too. Small shit.

    And this was a dynamic which drove growth and success for many years. Only recently has it changed, and I blame a great deal of that change on deliberate propaganda from the left and from certain political interests. You can see this happening with incredible intensity in the MSM’s current attack on any group which is wealthy and successful. They see an opportunity and all of their pent up rage is coming out.

    Somewhat of an overstatement, Dave. I find it rather hard to believe, even though I’m stuck in KY right now. From what my friends in California tell me, it’s blues all over. Alameda, where I lived, was a vibrant little town but now business are closing, jobs disappearing, and people are depressed.

    This happened in the 70s and 80s the downtown areas of almost every small town turned into ghost-towns with vacant and boarded up businesses and declining population. Then the trend turned around in the 90s and towns were reborn, and now we’re on the down-cyble again, even more dramatically in certain large cities in problem areas of the country. But now as then, the people actually hurt in these situations were only a small portion of the population. Most people lived through it just fine, paying little attention and slogging along in their jobs, or making some logical changes like moving or retraining, and ultimately ending up better off after a few years.

    What people seem unable to accept is that society and the economy go through changes.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Dave,

    Why don’t you get on the Aetius’s thread. I don’t believe you’ve been there yet.

    I find the article very challenging – not exactly in my area of expertise: lots of futuristic thinking, invoking a certain notion of “social change” which is only party articulated, lots of food for thought. I’m seriously thinking of writing a critique.

    But anyways, I’d be interested to hear your take on it – you’re a sensible, down-to-earth person. So could you look at it and the thread as well, and post your reaction.

    Roger

  • Clavos

    Roger,

    I’ve finally got your number, Clav:

    “So was virtually everyone I call ‘friend’ in the real (as opposed to the virtual) world.”

    Well, you said it.

    Care to elucidate?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Roger, like most of Aetius postings I find his current article to be pointless quibbling and basically a waste of time.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, Clav,

    What I simply mean since this is but a virtual reality for you, you’re not as constrained in your responses and/or comments as you would have been in person. Isn’t so?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Dave,

    You must have read this article, though, haven’t you? He does seem to me to be raising some valid points concerning the unique situation the U.S. and the rest of the world is facing. True, he doesn’t appear to be beyond what I think is stating the obvious. But when you think about it, it is hair-raising to say the least.

    Don’t you think so?

    Roger

  • STM

    Clav: “I’ve always known those Poms are selfish bastards. No wonder we revolted”.

    Spot on mate. I believe the King’s comment at the time was: “The Americans are revolting”.

    Of course, the upside is: if they hadn’t been revolting, this place might have been settled by the French instead.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    STM,

    A comment by William Wilberforce in “Amazing Grace,” the movie.

    In response to a member of the Parliament stating that half of the people in the colonies supported the English rule, he replied “Only one in four.”

    Care to comment on the accuracy of that statement?
    Who was right?

  • STM

    My favourite part in the story about the pommy dole bludgers is the amount they get on top of the free house – 40,000 pounds sterling.

    Until very recently (as late as last September), with the fall of most currencies against the US dollar on the international exchange rate (should be the other way round, but anyway, that’s another story) – that amount was worth about $100,000, just to put it in perspective for Americans.

    So $100,000 for doing bugger all. Not bad. If they had decent surf in Britain and a climate that didn’t freeze your tits off 9 months of the year, I’d be there in a flash.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    You must have read this article, though, haven’t you?

    Yes, I edited it.

    He does seem to me to be raising some valid points concerning the unique situation the U.S. and the rest of the world is facing. True, he doesn’t appear to be beyond what I think is stating the obvious. But when you think about it, it is hair-raising to say the least.

    It’s not stating the obvious, it’s missing the forest for the trees and getting tied up in minutiae and giving them significance they don’t deserve. It’s not hair-raising, it’s self-important, paranoid, windbaggery. Ooh, we’ve made economics so complex that we’ve created a monster. Bullshit. It’s overthinking and denying the obvious.

    When Adam Smith suggested that markets behave rationally he never said that they were not complex and he never guaranteed the ability of man to analyze and assess ALL of the vectors in the market which are rational on their own terms but combine to produce an unpredictable result.

    It’s like natural law. The existence of structure and logic in how the universe functions does not guarantee our ability to perceive, process and understand everything.

    Dave

  • STM

    I’ve got no idea of the veracity of that Roger, since they weren’t out doing voxpops and newspolls on the streets at the time, but I suspect that might have been the number of colonists who crossed the border into Canada – a lot did.

    It is well documented, however, that at the start of the revolution, more than half of the colonists didn’t think it was a good idea.

    As time went on, many more did. Perhaps that’s where we get to the one in four.

    Wilberforce was against the war, as were many parliamentarians. They thought Americans should have been granted full home rule, and if they’d been able to counter the meddling of the King’s clique in Parliament, that’s what would have happened.

    In fact for the first few years of the war, even George Washington held out hope that that would be the result.

    Initially, they didn’t want the full split. They just wanted to run their own affairs, with the attachment still to Britain.

    Might have been an interesting world had that happened.

    I wonder if the US would have been as great as it is today, and whetherv they would have stepped out of the shadow of the mother country quite as quickly as they did.

    Which begs the question: would what is now the US and Canada have been one country, and would almost certain American involvement in World Wars I and II from the outbreak have had a very different result in dampening German expansion and the subsequent rise of Nazism, or would it have been a weaker coalition than it was.

    Also, what effect would the high casualty rates that would have resulted in WWI from such a scenario (American involvement from 1914 instead of 1917) have had on the American psyche.

    Another possibility perhaps is that WWII might not have hapened at all, as a British empire with America in it and committed to a “Pax Brittanica” would have been an unstoppable force if America had grown as much as it did in its independence.

    Also, many other countries – the Philippines, for instance – would likely have been British colonies, given that the British had originally captured Manila and Luzon from the Spanish in the 1700s, but gave it back during the signing of a peace treaty after just two years. Given that US and British foreign policy might have been written by the same person at many times in the last century or so, perhaps Japan would have been the only other belligerent in a second war.

    Sadly, because I don’t have a life, these are the kinds of things I ponder in my spare, waking moments. Mainly because such scenarios are as fascinating as the true course of history.

    But as I say, I can’t give you an accurate answer to your original question. Probably no one can.

    However, anyone in their right mind probably wouldn’t want a war if there were some kind of viable alternative.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Very thoughtful, STM. And it is just as interesting to contemplate alternative scenarios.

  • Clavos

    Hey, Mate, did the burger exposé get published yet?

    Can you email me a copy? Inquiring minds want to know…

  • STM

    Not yet mate … next week sometime I believe. Should be fun, though, especially doing up the artwork.

    A mate of yours sent me some pix on Friday but we were closed up on the story. Can you thank him, as his address said I couldn’t reply.

    They are definitely different around the world. Ours looks to be the smallest but comparable with a couple of other countries.

    Those in the US aren’t the biggest overall. There are other factors too like the total weight, according to studies already done. Dan’s and the Cozumel burger were likely the biggest.

  • STM

    The other thing is Rog, had the US not declared indpendence and become, say, a dominion like Canada or an independent federation keeping a like Australia keep a constitutional monarchy, it’s very likely that as a society, in terms of its laws and its way of life, America would have been nearly identical anyway to how it is today.

    My personal view, despite my beliefs about the real reason for the revolution: history took the right course.

  • STM

    Great editing there from STM, who needs to give himself an uppercut and suddenly talks about himself in the third person.

    You get the drift though?

  • Clavos

    A mate of yours sent me some pix on Friday but we were closed up on the story. Can you thank him, as his address said I couldn’t reply.

    That was my sister in Minneapolis, mate. When I recruited her and gave her the 411 on the project, as usual, she wasn’t listening. :>)

    She’s really a lovely lady — a great mom, and a hell of a saleswoman — she could sell sand to Arabs.

  • STM

    Geez, how come one of you ended up in sunny Florida and the other in icy Minnesota?

    From what I can gather though, the burgers are the same size :)

  • Cindy

    Dave,

    When Adam Smith suggested that markets behave rationally he never said that they were not complex and he never guaranteed the ability of man to analyze and assess ALL of the vectors in the market which are rational on their own terms but combine to produce an unpredictable result.

    It’s like natural law. The existence of structure and logic in how the universe functions does not guarantee our ability to perceive, process and understand everything.

    I’m wondering if this means that you can’t be sure if free markets will work…even without government interference.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    If free markets are hard to predict, the problem with command and control economies is that you can predict that they will produce bad results, because they are in conflict with the natural push of economies to be free.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Dave,

    Personally, I’m coming to the opinion that all this market bashing is way off line and misdirected (and if the proposition that “markets are irrational” has any force it’s only because people are irrational).

    The institution as such is a great human invention. Think of the Japanese future markets (in rice) to provide for hedging (so as to prevent great losses and possible ruin in light of seasonal variations. In fact, one could well argue that conditions which allowed for the opening of something we know today as “markets” have precipitated the rise of the free enterprise system as “theory” – that, in fact, the theory was arrived at after the fact so to speak, to account for and explain the conditions already present.

    Which goes with many theorists and believers in the so-called “invisible-hand” explanation, whereby any given state of affairs is the result of impersonal social forces at work rather than human design. And markets themselves, or the institution we call the markets, seem a perfect candidate for that category – i.e., as phenomena best understood as workings of “the invisible hand.”

    Perhaps a thoughtful, well-balanced rebuttal to Aetius’s article is in order, don’t you think?

    Roger

  • bliffle

    The natural push of economies is to be monopolistic and suppress economic freedom. And they will succeed too, if left to their own devices, because the monopolists will become strong enough to privatize even the government. As we see.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Let me say again something I have said elsewhere, frequently. The free market is wonderful, but to survive it needs a bit of help. Not bailouts, and not “Congressional oversight,*” but competent securities regulation and adequate enforcement of the antitrust laws.

    Had the antitrust laws been enforced adequately for the past many years, the various companies which now need to be bailed out because they are “too big to fail” would not be that big and their failure would not have draconian consequences.

    The failure to enforce the antitrust laws should be remedied, and there is no time as good as the present to get started.

    *There are more than enough oversights by the Congress itself to keep them busy for a very long time.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But that’s the whole point, Bliffle. They can’t be left to their own devices and always need a watchdog with big teeth.

    Just as we try to control markets in contraband, stolen goods and illegal substances – with varying degrees of success – we must do likewise with bone fide markets so as to prevent formation of monopolies.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/marlowesbeef marlowe

    Time for THIS form of capitalism, cancerous as it is – to go.

    There are better, far more equitable forms of capitalism we could adhere to…

    Marlowe

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It IS going, Marlowe, whether we like it or not. Anyone who thinks it will be business as usual if and when the dust finally settles is a consummate fool.

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    Maybe I am misinterpreting Dave’s ‘parable,’ but if what he is saying is that the Obama administration is waging a War on Capitalism, then the parable has a pretty shaky foundation.

    There is more than one way to be pro-business and pro-capitalism. The furthest right/most libertarian approach is not the only approach.

    I’m sure the president, his treasury secretary and his labor secretary, to name three, do not see themselves as anti-business, certainly not anti-small-business. So just reflexively calling them that because they stand to your left on many issues is not very meaningful.

    Forbes recently listed the small-business initiatives in the stimulus bill and in an expanded loan program:
    “a plan to inject $15 billion into the small-business loan market;
    government grants for eco-friendly renovations;
    tax deductions for capital expenditures;
    research grants for technology development”

    My guess is that Dave’s main target is EFCA, or card-check unionization.

    But if workers choose to unionize, is that not their right? Should the business owner have veto power over that choice? Are the smallest businesses really principal union targets? And is unionization really the automatic doom for every business that the right portrays it as?

    Why does every political discussion on the Internet have to be based on reductionist, simplistic caricatures rather than real substance? Gets us nowhere.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “Are the smallest businesses really principal union targets?”

    Good point, Handy. But you have to admit that given present conditions and meltdown, “unionization” is not really an issue. It’s arguable that in the case of GM, for example, it was one of the factors contributing to GM’s present troubles. But unions – which have been on the wane, really, ever since the ’60s – didn’t produce the present crisis. The corrupt corporate culture did.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Time for THIS form of capitalism, cancerous as it is – to go.

    There are better, far more equitable forms of capitalism we could adhere to…

    The problem is that with the current trends were likely to go to an even more limited and more inequitable form of capitalism where all are punished for the sins of the very few.

    The fundamental misconception here is the idea that free markets have failed us. That’s not what happened at all. We were failed by a controlled market where the controls worked against free capital and for concentration of capital and corriupt collusion with government.

    Government’s role in the market should be solely regulatory, to limit abuse and prevent monopolies. But what they are setting up is the exact opposite, where government decides who wins and loses and picks certain companies to be their favorites and get special priveleges. Exactly what got us where we are today but taken to an even higher level.

    They are doing the absolute wrong thing, rewarding and expanding on failure and abuse while punishing unapproved initiative.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    You know, this really is the situation which led to the Boston Tea Party all over again. In that situation the problem was that the British Government had granted a monopoly to the British East India Company and shut down all competition from other tea suppliers and sources. That kind of special government favor granted because a company was too big to fail is exactly what we see happening with AIG.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Dave,

    Everything fine with your #65 except “they are doing the absolute wrong thing, rewarding and expanding on failure and abuse while punishing unapproved initiative.”

    What you’re referring here I call “damage control.” It’s not an integral part of what transpired in the past and led us to the present, only an attempt to fix it so we could get up on our feet again. Whether it will work or not, that’s another story.

    Roger

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Dave,

    You haven’t responded to my #57. Your impression?

    Roger

  • http://handyfilm.blogspot.com handyguy

    You know, this really is the situation which led to the Boston Tea Party all over again.

    This is a strange comparison for you to make.

    The current ‘populist rage’ over AIG is potentially a very destructive force…and talk about anti-capitalist!

    The Feds were frightened into ‘saving’ AIG in September [even before TARP] because of the market meltdown after they had allowed Lehman Brothers to fail, just a few days earlier.

    Any ‘special privileges’ granted to AIG or its executives were just a side effect, not the main plan: they were the unintended consequences of letting the company wind itself down rather than either go bankrupt or be 100% government-run.

    Extravagant retention bonuses and other jaw-dropping pay practices have been part of Wall St culture for years. If the government had stepped in, pre-crisis, and tried to put a lid on the practices, many on the right would have cried foul — including, I suspect, Dave Nalle.

    Anyway, wasn’t the tea party about taxes?

  • Cindy

    To anyone with a TV.

    Just to say that anti-Capitalism is alive and well. About 10k or more of us marched on the Pentagon today. A beautiful sight to behold. People of all persuasions. I argued with some, agreed with others, and even ran away from some (including the local Anarchists). Nevertheless, agree or disagree, most are perturbed by Capitalism. Some downright think it’s no good!

    I didn’t see any MSM there. I saw one single AP photographer all day! Now, this was an event scheduled not just in DC but in San Francisco, L.A. and Chicago! The 19th was the anniversary of the Iraq war the 21st was to be the main protest day. It is a big protest!

    Please tell me if you saw this on TV. TIA.

  • REMF(MCH)

    Clav: “I’ve always known those Poms are selfish bastards. No wonder we revolted”.

    Yep…Thank God for our insurgents.

  • STM

    Dave: “You know, this really is the situation which led to the Boston Tea Party”.

    Geez, I dunno Dave … seems like there might be a bit more to it than the impost of a three-penny tax on a pound of tea, which BTW wasn’t only applied in the colonies but in Britain as well.

    Lucky that Americans decided that as a result, they should be revolting.

  • Clavos

    Lucky that Americans decided that as a result, they should be revolting.

    A proud tradition we have proudly upheld ever since.

    My wife says I do my part on a more or less continuous basis.

    Proud, I say.

    Revolting, she says…

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Geez, I dunno Dave … seems like there might be a bit more to it than the impost of a three-penny tax on a pound of tea, which BTW wasn’t only applied in the colonies but in Britain as well.

    Stan, it wasn’t the tax, it was the monopoly which was the primary objection. That’s what makes it similar to the current situation. You have to remember how important Tea was to the economy. It was the only soft-drink. We’re talking coke, pepsi, dr. pepper and everything else rolled into one. Imagine if the US gave the whole soft-drink trade to a single authorized company AND placed a tax on all soft drinks at the same time. It’s a much bigger deal than people realize.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    You haven’t responded to my #57. Your impression?

    That you’re needy? when I agree with something I’m not always motivated to respond.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Cindy, #70. How utterly pointless and irrelevant. Don’t these people have jobs or something productive they can do which will actually help society?

    Dave

  • zingzing

    i love how dave capitalizes the War on Capitalism even in the comments.

    it’s classic.

    like the war on christmas or something.

    also, i’m amused that in dave’s fantasy, he’s a slave-driver. you know those slaves are going to revolt one day and kill your little granddaughter, right? “granpa?”

    gimme a break. i’m really glad you get around to blaming islam for the whole thing. or is this “obama is a muslim” all over again? either way, that was some sort of cheap shot.

    really, if this thing was marked “satire” and could be read in that light, it would make more sense as some sort of delirious right-wing fever dream.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Dave,

    This little phantasm was not your best work (see Stan Denham’s initial comment), though I did enjoy reading it. But it must have stuck a pike up someone’s rear end to have gotten 77 comments….

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Zing, this is a work of speculative fiction. Nothing about the protaganist resembles me in any way. That aside, you clearly don’t understand any of this, so why do you bother to comment. Read some of the other articles we’ve been publishing recently. Look at what’s going on in the world beyond your four walls.

    And the muslim reference at the end has nothing to do with Obama and it isn’t a cheap shot, just an acknowledgement of what the world is likely to be like in a few years.

    Dave

  • pablo

    Cindy #70

    “About 10k or more of us marched on the Pentagon today.”

    It is always a pleasure to see folks standing up to the military-industrial complex, hence I applaud your efforts.

    The fact that this gathering/protest was not reported on by the MSM speaks for itself. I have maintained for years that the MSM is primarily a conditioning mechanism for the corpocracy.

    It kind of strikes me as rather amusing that Mr. Nalle would say:

    “How utterly pointless and irrelevant. Don’t these people have jobs or something productive they can do which will actually help society?”

    As he likes to portray himself as a very knowledgeable libertarian, and civil liberty buff (cough).

    So when folks out there put their asses on the line against the military industrial complex and their ilk, all Dave offers is indeed very petty, pointless and irrelevant . Thanks Dave! :)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy,

    I don’t have a TV but WTOP.com, the on-line branch of CBS Washington affiliate, WTOP carried this report on the demonstrations you mention.

    Looks like we are really seeing how censorship works in America. The news is just not reported – or reported in so minor a way you have to really look for it.

    The boys in the White House know you have them by the balls, Cindy. All the pressure they can bring to bear to silence demonstrators’ voices will be brought to bear. Don’t be surprised if you see martial law declared in your country in the not too distant future. “Democracy” or the version you’ve been allowed to live with, at least, is rapidly losing its value; the ruling elites will drop it as an unnecessary inconvenience the way partiers drop the masks at a Purim party.

    I really had to look for coverage of the demo at something that even resembled the MSM. Obama’s dumb remarks on “The Tonight Show With Jay Leno” appear to be more important.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy,

    Demos are feel-good exercises – unless they have concrete results on the spot – which is extremely rare. The demonstration that destroyed the Bastille in 1789 was one demonstration that had clear results on the spot, even though no TV was there to record it. Others that took place in Eastern Europe 20 years ago could be similarly characterized.

    I would suggest stocking up on canned goods, flour and bottling water. When the MSM does turn against Obama will likely be when martial law will be declared in your country. Exactly when that will happen will depend on the market, whether your dollar has sunk to the point of Monopoly money, etc., variables that are beyond my ability to foresee. At that point, you will have no internet, no phone, no cell phone no nothing. It will all be jammed, just like it used to was in Russia and Eastern Europe a generation ago. This on-line magazine will be historypersonstory. You get the idea. Have a pleasant Sunday. And prepare for a not so pleasant future….

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Dave has actually pulled off rather a little coup here, in that Blogcritics doesn’t publish fiction, yet here he is in comment #79 admitting that his so-called “opinion” piece is exactly that. Obviously some editor wasn’t paying close enough attention!

  • Cindy

    Dave,

    Get a job? On a Saturday? Anyway Dave, not everyone was anti-Capitalist. It was an anti-war march.

    I thought you were ready to march Dave?

    Anyhow “get a job” is something I’d expect to hear from (what can one call these people?) ProWar Counter-protesters that heckled the march from the sidelines–in all their rabid hate-spewing nastiness.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’m surprised they still have “Pro-War Anti-Protesters.” In these economic times.

    No doubt organized by the Christian Right and the likes of Melanie Morgan.

  • Cindy

    pablo,

    Next up is the National March on Wall St April 3 & 4.

    I did the Funk the War protest with the SDS on March 19th. Here is the part where the cops started pushing the students and hitting them with batons and then dragged two of them off to jail.

    Is it really defacing property to write on a sidewalk with chalk? I’ve got to find that out.

  • Cindy

    Ruvy,

    Thanks for that article. It’s the only one that got the numbers right. The AP said “hundreds” of protesters and even The Real News said about 1300 protesters.

    It was about 10,000. Busloads of people came in from all over the east coast.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Get a job? On a Saturday? Anyway Dave, not everyone was anti-Capitalist. It was an anti-war march.

    I was more suggesting they do something relevant and useful. An anti-war march at this point is so off the mark that all I can do is shake my head in bafflement. It’s like they’re stuck on hold in 1972.

    I thought you were ready to march Dave?

    Well sure, but for something meaningful.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    dave: “Zing, this is a work of speculative fiction. Nothing about the protaganist resembles me in any way. That aside, you clearly don’t understand any of this, so why do you bother to comment. Read some of the other articles we’ve been publishing recently. Look at what’s going on in the world beyond your four walls.”

    dave, this isn’t sci-fi. it’s fucking opinion, and you know it. the protagonist resembles you because it is opinion and you write in the first person. that aside, you clearly don’t understand any of what you wrote, so why bother to comment[?]

    i don’t get all my news from here, and i know plenty about what’s going on out there. i’m not the one who lives in a compound. so get your underwear out of your colon and stop being a condescending dick.

    “And the muslim reference at the end has nothing to do with Obama and it isn’t a cheap shot, just an acknowledgement of what the world is likely to be like in a few years.”

    in a few years, islam is going to take over the world? see? “delusional right-wing fever dream.” man, that shit is so hot, it’ll still be steaming in 2034.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    dave, this isn’t sci-fi. it’s fucking opinion, and you know it.

    Why can’t it; be both?

    the protagonist resembles you because it is opinion and you write in the first person.

    There’s enough specific info about the protagonist to make very clear that he’s not at all like me. I don’t work as a supervisor in someone else’s small business, nor is there any chance I’d be pressured to join a union. I do know people like the protagonist, but that doesn’t make him me.

    in a few years, islam is going to take over the world? see? “

    It doesn’t say anything like that in the article. The protagonist moved to Indonesia, which is already an Islamic country. No implication of any expansion of Islam there.

    You should read the articles, not read your own assumptions into them.

    Dave

  • zingzing

    dave, i just figured that this was an opinion piece designed to look like fiction. if you’re saying it’s not, then i guess i overestimated you.

    there’s not any chance you’d be pressured to join a union? isn’t that the point? that because of obama’s policies, we’ll all be pressured to join a union on our way towards total economic destruction by socialism? i guess you’re not part of your own vision of the future or something…

    and just because you move to an islamic country, you become islamic? since when? were you a communist in the ussr? a muslim in iraq?

    i did read the article. and maybe i do read it from my own perspective. that’s a given. you do the same. but at least i don’t lie to myself and others about what my agenda is.

  • pablo

    Nalle RE comments 9 and 15

    You said in response to my comment in 9:

    “And Pablo, I’m sure that being a fan of Alex Jones will get you profiled as a domestic terrorist too.

    Dave”

    Here we have the heart of the matter. Instead of voicing outrage that the State of Missouri WAS profiling through a secretive police report followers of presidential candidates Chuck Baldwin, Ron Paul, and Bob (CIA) Barr as potential terrorists, Nalle responds with this snide off handed remark, as if to frighten me. What Davey does not understand is that for ANY freedom to be won it takes people who are not afraid to stand up for their rights and voice them. Instead Nalle responds with a nasty comment suggesting I am on a list. Whoop de fucking doo buddy. Try fighting tyranny for a change Nalle, instead of your tired OLD republican shenanigans under the thinly guised so called libertarian banner. Cause anyone with half a brain can see through your bs.

    Incidentally (this is not addressed to you Nalle) the State of Missouri has recalled this report after outrage and all three of the former presidential candidates wrote a group letter to the Governor demanding that they remove the fascist un-american report to police officers.

    See this is what can happen when people demand accountability to the consitution of state officers that are sworn to uphold it. No thanks to people such as Nalle.

    You go boy.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Pablo, when is it ever good enough for you? It wasn’t a snide, off-handed remark, it was a serious remark and probably true. It wasn’t intended to scare you, it was intended to scare EVERYONE. Putting people on terrorist lists because of their political views is scary and your suggestion that I’m making light of it is offensive and typically off the mark.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    In all fairness, Dave, I fail to see it.
    Why should being a fan of Alex Jones put one on that list? Something is way off whack if our Homeland Security takes such a drastic view.

    Roger

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Roger, why should who you voted for in the presidential election put you on a terrorist watch list? Yet that’s what was proposed in Missouri. And it’s a fact that membership in certain groups or interest in certain activities is used to profile potential terrorists, and experts put forward belief in conspiracies or membership in groups like 9/11 truth which Jones advocates as warning signs of being prone to involvement in domestic terrorism. I don’t think they should be doing it, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t or won’t.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That’s outrageous, Dave – the beginnings of a Fascist state. Doesn’t Congress or the president have anything to say about it? How can a state act in such a manner or try to draft legislation to that effect? It’s mind boggling.

  • Anony Moose

    When the government decides you are not in the “in” crowd, it will do what it likes and many people will actually defend that (as long as it isn’t a group they identify with). Even many of the people who post to this site would defend that.

  • pablo

    Nalle 93

    “Pablo, when is it ever good enough for you?”

    I stand by comment 92 Nalle. I might reconsider should you write an article on the MAIC report as well as giving Alex Jones credit for breaking the story, which he did. A fat chance in hell you would ever do that.

  • Anony Moose

    In other words, “put up your dukes.”

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Pablo, I’d like to write an article on it, and I might even give Jones credit, but as you may have noticed I haven’t written much of anything here in the last week, because I’ve been running for — and this morning winning – the chairmanship of the Republican Liberty Caucus, an organization which is going to save you from the threats you see all around you despite yourself and with any luck bring the GOP back to its founding values of individual liberty and fiscal responsibility.

    And Roger, legislatures can pass any damned crazy thing they like, unless we either expose what they’re doing before they can, or challenge them in the courts after the fact. That’s how the system works.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Congrats, Dave. But why don’t you write first about the organization, what it stands for, its role, etc. I would be interested to know, and I’m certain so would many others.

    Roger

  • Jordan Richardson

    an organization which is going to save you from the threats you see all around you

    Like spiders? Ooooh, I hope you can do something about spiders!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Arachnophobia

  • Jordan Richardson

    I could see Dave in an updated version of the movie, snugly fit in the role of Delbert McClintock.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’ve seen it long time ago and don’t remember the actors. But a role in Ghostbusters might be appropriate.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Delbert McClintock was played by John Goodman.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    BTW, Jorda,

    That was quite a rant and rave on the other thread, so much so even Doc felt it incumbent to step in lest you break his spirit.

    Arch will be Arch. But you’re right, we are spoiled.

    You should look at the other thread, Glenn’s article about relocating to the Philippines. There are some links there, posted by Cindy and others, as regards what real poverty and hopelessness is. Heartbreaking. As a matter of fact, Archie himself should look this up. That would cure anyone’s arrogance, I bet.

    We should consider ourselves lucky.

  • Jordan Richardson

    I will certainly check that out. Thanks!

  • Mark

    Dave #100 – congratulations

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Thanks, Mark. Jordan, I provide spider stomping services for a special fee.

    Now to Roger’s question. You can find out more about the RLC on the website. In a nutshell, it’s a group whose goal is to work within the GOP to restore integrity and emphasis on traditional republican values of limited government and individual liberty.

    More later, but I’m too tired to think.

    Dave

  • pablo

    Gee Dave, I am really really impressed with your liberty organization, and you being elected the chairman of it.

    You might want to get a new webmaster pal, as the website does not mention you as the chairman yet. You probably are aware that uploading to the net is in real time. Seems like your webmaster is a bit lax on the job.

    I also noticed your impressive bio on the site which reads as follows:

    “Dave Nalle grew up overseas and in Washington, DC with parents who were in the foreign service. He was educated at British and American schools, eventually completing high school at St. Albans School. As a child and teen he lived in Syria, Iran, Jordan, England and the Soviet Union and traveled extensively throughout the Middle East and Central Asia.”

    As the above bio suggests and Nalle has admitted as much, why not add the following:

    The Nalle family is proud of their CIA affiliation and has proudly served the constitution in being behind such deeds as kidnapping, torture, terrorism in other countries, and being instrumental in overthrowing democratically elected governments throughout the world. (Gee Dave does this get me on a list too pal?)

    I also could not help but notice that your esteemed liberty (cough) group was inspired by the late Barry Goldwater who said the following about both the CFR and the Trilateral Commission:

    “The Council on Foreign Relations and its ancillary elitist groups are indifferent to Communism. They have no ideological anchors. In their pursuit of a new world order they are prepared to deal without prejudice with a communist state, a socialist state, a democratic state, monarchy, oligarchy — it’s all the same to them.”
    – Senator Barry Goldwater, from his book With No Apologies

    ““The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States.”

    I sense a serious disconnect in your group, particularly with reference to its chairman you Dave. That is a nice way of saying that I find your group and its chairman rife with hypocrisy.

    I couldn’t help but also notice that the Texas state chapter of your group calls themselves the “Ron Paul Republicans”. Perhaps your first order of business is to get those extremists in line don’t you think pal?

    I do find it fitting however that you were elected (did the voting machine work?) to this blatantly hypocritical organization, it is quite fitting, and only confirms in my mind that yes there is a god.

    Congratulations!

  • pablo

    Oh and I almost forgot Dave. Dana Rohrabacher? Pleasssse. I am from California remember, and we have never produced a bigger fascist than Dana Rohrabacher. A real civil libertarian there hehehehe.

  • pablo

    Oh and Davey? You may be aware that in order to be a member of the CFR you must be a US citizen, unlike the Trilateral Commission. If you check the membership list as I have of the Trilateral commission you will find with a very rare exception that each and every member is also a member of the CFR. You have the late Senator Barry Goldwater obviously stirring restless in his grave. Nice going, yeah your a real Goldwater kind of republican Davey, smirk.

  • pablo

    Correction on above post:

    I meant that you will find that invariably a member of the Trilateral Commmission that is a US citizen will also be on the CFR.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I must say, Pablo, that in the last four comments you have outdone yourself. It’s a gem of satirical writing, and for that alone Dave should be happy for you.

    I think you ought to be getting paid for turning out pieces like that. I really mean it.

    Keep up the good work.

    Roger

  • pablo

    Thank you Roger. Actually I would write free articles on here, should blogcritics ever have the professionalism to apologize to me. Last year the political editor of this site suggested that I do a piece on my opinion that 9/11 was an inside job, which I did. After I submitted it the article got rejected as being a forbidden subject. I found that to be rather absurd, and until such time as either Nalle gets canned for his behavior or an official apology from Eric, neither of which will ever happen.

  • pablo

    last comment continued:

    I will not write anymore articles until such time.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Pablo, I guess the world will never get to enjoy more of your writing then, a loss I’m sure we all grieve for.

    For what it’s worth to your conspiracy troubled mind, this was a simple misunderstanding, nothing more.

    As you may already know, if you’ve been paying even the slightest bit of attention, I don’t agree with many of Dave’s views and actions either, but he has done nothing worth being canned for, if it is actually possible to get canned from doing volunteer work.

    As to an apology from EO, why exactly do you think you should get one? Articles get rejected all the time for a whole wide range of valid reasons. Most people simply get over it and move on, not have massive temperamental strops that go on for years. Additionally, neither he nor Dave were involved in the decision.

    Personally, my opinion is that you just prefer to have some little grievances to moan about, as it fits in so perfectly with your conspiracy laden world view. For that, at least, I am sorry.

    Christopher Rose
    Blogcritics Editorial Team Member

  • Cindy

    Congratulations Dave. But, is this guy really part of a group that’s going to change your party?

    Dana Rohrabacher wholeheartedly defends, endorses and advocates rendition and torture. He throws around rhetoric like ‘well, how many were actually tortured’, instead of informing himself with facts. He has presumptions about what American would do and that is apparently as good as facts to him.

    As Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on Human Rights ranking member, he has said at a hearing that torturing innocent people is worth it for the greater good. Hearing the groans of the listeners, he then said then to these who disagreed, “Well, I hope your families…I hope it’s your families that suffer the consequences.”

  • STM

    Why not let Pablo submit his piece again, and this time, run it?

  • Ma ® k

    iirc Dave already apologized for soliciting the article in error. Here’s one of those instances where an ombudsman might have come in handy.

  • pablo

    Christopher Rose
    Blogcritics Editorial Team Member:

    It seems to me that you are obviously confusing your role on this site as an editorial team member, and a commenter Chris. They are quite different, yet you have blended them and done yourself a disservice.

    If you want to act professionally about my grievance regarding the forbidden subject of 9/11 truth, fine. However you also interject your own personal opinions which quite frankly might be construed by another blogcritics censor as a personal attack (fat chance in hell of that happening).

    In either case I find it highly amusing, that you chose to sign that comment with your oh so professional stamp, and you do not seem to know if your commenting or acting professionally. Thanks for showing me your stuff pal.

  • pablo

    Chris 118:

    “As to an apology from EO, why exactly do you think you should get one? Articles get rejected all the time for a whole wide range of valid reasons.”

    Are you serious, or just brain dead?

  • pablo

    #118
    “For what it’s worth to your conspiracy troubled mind, this was a simple misunderstanding, nothing more.”

    I would think that it is the job of the political editor of this site to know what political subjects (kind of an oxymoron in regards to free speech) are forbidden. I as a former writer to this site also made an attempt several times to find out what if any other political subjects were forbidden to write about, I never got a response from the emails that I sent.

    Oh and Chris? My mind has never been more un-troubled pal, and I do feel sorry for those of you that are so incredibly naive to think that 9/11 was perpetrated by Obama bin Laden (typo on purpose).

    But hey you know what they say don’t ya Chris? Ignorance is bliss. Enjoy pal, I sure am. :)

  • Clavos

    But hey you know what they say don’t ya Chris? Ignorance is bliss.

    Well, no “they” don’t. Not the literate folks at least, because the quotation is actually,

    “…where ignorance is bliss,
    ‘Tis folly to be wise.”

    Which is rather different from simply, “ignorance is bliss,” isn’t it?

    It was written by Thomas Gray, in his poem, On a Distant Prospect of Eton College, in 1742.

    But you’re not alone, Pablo, for it may well be the most misquoted bit of verse in all of English literature.

  • pablo

    Clavos,

    I don’t recall using ignorance is bliss as a quotation, do you?

  • Clavos

    I don’t recall using ignorance is bliss as a quotation, do you?

    Why, yes I do, Paulie. Right here, in comment #124:

    But hey you know what they say don’t ya Chris? Ignorance is bliss. (emphasis added)

    Since the phrase is not yours (as you tacitly acknowledge with “…you know what they say…”), by definition, you quoted it.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    I dunno, you try to help a bloke and what happens? Pablo, that’s what happens. :-)

  • STM

    I, for one, would LOVE to see Pablo’s 9/11 conspiracy piece. As long as it’s under opinion, what’s the problem?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I second.

  • pablo

    Christopher,

    Help like yours I don’t need.

  • pablo

    Roger, STM

    Thanks for your encouraging the editorial staff to take another look at me doing a 9/11 conspiracy piece. I know this in no way means you believe in such paranoid stuff, but it does show that you support a free and open exchange of ideas, particularly in the arena of articles. I do appreciate it, and should they change their mind I will write up a new article.

  • pablo

    Just a small comment on the above comment of mine. We can all agree that 9/11 was in point of fact a conspiracy folks. And for the record that makes all of us conspiracy theorists, as if you were not there, all of you theorize on who perpetrated this act of horror.

  • Ma ® k

    Pablo, as we’ve discussed before, I think that you should side-step the issue by writing a ‘hit piece’ on anti-conspiracists. You could include all kinds of 9/11 data. You’ve stated that getting the info considered is your goal.

    Fuck waiting for apologies.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    The reason that certain subjects aren’t published here is partly because of the aftermath.

    For a start, in this particular case there is no PROOF of such a conspiracy, only unfounded speculation. Then there are also the post publication consequences to consider, as everybody with a pet theory turns up to debate.

    That’s why we don’t publish holocaust denials, racist diatribes and possibly one or two other unsavoury subjects.

    It is one thing to have one gobby conspiracy theory aficionado on the site, but having entire flocks of them is simply overwhelming.

    It’s not like there aren’t many other places on the net where this stuff is to be found.

    It has nothing whatsoever to do with the free and open exchange of ideas, although that is one of the arguments best loved by the motivated supporters of this notion. Irrelevant, but it makes them feel better about themselves.

  • Clavos

    Irrelevant, but it makes them feel better about themselves.

    Which they desperately need to do.

  • pablo

    As I happen to derive my primary income from websites Christopher, I disagree with you. There is only one way that this particular site can generate income, and it is called traffic. The more hits generated particularly on a given subject matter, in this case politics the more certain banners, google adsense, and other mediums of advertising can generate income for this site.

    There is also no PROOF that your particular consipiracy theory that is spewed out by the government and yellow journalism (that means Hearst for the uninformed), from whence the term comes from)sources is a fact. The only possible explanation for your reticence to publish articles that differ from yours, is that you are afraid of being challenged, which you obviously are.

    As for having one gobby consipiracy theorist on this site Chris, you would do well to have almost anyone else contributing to this site’s political section. I could count on one fucking hand the regulars that you have. Given that politics is not only a very important subject to most americans, and particularly now with the global meltdown, the fact that you have so few regular contributers speaks volumes about the sad state of affairs of blogcritics political section. Out of a country of over 300,00,000 and a planet of well over 6,000,000,000 the fact that you have about 10 folks who give a flying fuck about this site ought to send you scrambling for new contributers pal.

    Clavos, I always welcome your backbiting caustic unfriendly humor, as it goes so well with your particular political inclinations, in fact it fits you to a tee. I always know that when Clavy comes crawling along, I have hit a nerve, and it indeed makes my day. Yes I am so desperate for company pal, that I have a challenge for you Clavy. I will post a link to a photo of my lovely girlfriend with me in the photo, if you will do the same of your bedridden wife, and then we can share notes on desperation. Fair enough? You gettin any pal? Challenge accepted? I think not. Cause your chicken. :)

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I could count on one fucking hand the regulars that you have…

    …the fact that you have about 10 folks who give a flying fuck about this site…

    No wonder Pablo moved to the Philippines. Anywhere colder and he’d never find gloves to fit…

  • pablo

    Something that I said untrue Dread? Allow me to count them.

    I wont count the shills, (that is the guys that work for the site such as yourself).

    There is Clavy in all his glory, Cindy, Roger now, Jett the obamanoid, and handguy, obnoxious, arch, dan miller, myself occasionally, Ruvy, Baritone, Baronius, and very few others that escape my mind currently. Thats about 12. God forbid if you get folks on here that actually question and confront the false left/right paradigm that most of you are under. Noooooooooooo we cant have people that actually think the government is full of shit now can we? Thats taking free speech just a little too far for this site Dread. Sure osama and his henchmen did it with no help from the shadow government, just as Oswald acted all alone and that one bullet went every which way through jfk’s head and made a right turn at Albuquerque into Connelly. Some people will believe ANYTHING. I suppose the fact that the CIA was importing crack cocaine into the usa is a tin foil hat conspiracy too Dread. Oh yeah and those crazy paranoid folks who think that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was actually fake! God, what a bunch of paranoids. hehehehe

  • pablo

    Oh and Dread?

    I just happen to know the part of the country that you live in like the back of my hand. You got Stockton, yahoooooooo, and Visaliaaaaaaaaa, and uh Fresno, now theres a city of real fun!!

    I went to the Phillipines to get away from those kinda folks, and I am happy to say that they are few and far between there. People here actually as poor as they are, SMILE, and are PLAYFUL, and are SWEET, and are HUMAN, unlike most of the robotoids that I have had the unfortune to meet in your neck of the woods. OH yeah and my fiat currency goes three times further, and I have to literally beat off with a stick gorgeous nymphs on a daily basis.

    Yup I like it in the Philippines, in fact I have not come across one bloke that even remotely resembles a Dave Nalle, or a Clavy, or an Al Barger, and I smile all the damned time!! :)

  • pablo

    Ooops sorry Clavy is a shill too.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #134 (by Mark),

    A very good idea, Mark, and Pablo should consider it. Write an “anti-conspiracy” piece. It should be even more poignant. If they’ll let you get away with it, that is, attacking the editorial policy. I, for one, would be glad to see it.

    I’m willing to bet it would generate a shit-load of comments.

  • Clavos

    Whenever Paulie goes on a rampage, I know we’ve gotten to him.

    Like fish in a barrel…

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    BTW, Pablo. It is possible to unmake “the American robotoits” when confronting them in person – through charm, power of persuasion, challenging them to think. There’s a fat chance of doing that when you’re online, which makes it so frustrating. Sometimes one just has to give up.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    There is Clavy in all his glory, Cindy, Roger now, Jett the obamanoid, and handguy, obnoxious, arch, dan miller, myself occasionally, Ruvy, Baritone, Baronius, and very few others that escape my mind currently. Thats about 12.

    So you actually have not ten, but twelve fingers on one hand? Have you considered surgery?

    [raises tinfoil riot shield]

    :-)p

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “For a start, in this particular case there is no PROOF of such a conspiracy, only unfounded speculation.”

    If that is the case, then how did “Proofs of the Failure of Conservative Political and Economic Theory”?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I encourage Pablo to write anything he wants for the site, so long as he understands that there’s a policy restricting some material which I didn’t originate.

    He might want to keep in mind that I did apologize for my mistake in encouraging him to write before on the 9/11 topic, and I still don’t have total control over what the higher ups deem publishable.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    OK, Pablo. You’ve got a green light and Dave came clean. So let bygones be bygones.

  • STM

    Pablo:

    Mate, do you think you might have overstepped the mark there just a bit on the bizarre photo-sharing challenge?

    You don’t do yourself any favours by posting that kind of stuff. It’s low, Pablo, fair dinkum, it really is. Seriously. Why even go there?

  • HeddaCabbage

    I “second that emotion” STM, decrying the lowness of this and many other comments.

    I hate to see QUITE justifiable anger at the cruelty of the rich and powerful, in general, used as a self-righteous cloak for downright irrational maliciousness toward specific individuals.

    Maybe there’d be even more of us here scoring “points” for the unconventional views of some of BC’s less discreet posters, if some of BC’s less discreet posters would be…a little more discreet.

    Everything this guy tries to do on BC is a failure. Sadly, the Offending Posters attempts to “help” the cause of liberty have only hurt it, by the mere association with his own odium.

    Sometimes I have to wonder if the Offending Poster isn’t being paid handsomely by the CFR, Trilateral Commission, Bilderburgers, Rothschilds, and gets free lunches everyday at the Federal Reserve System Commissary because he’s doing such a good job of making Defenders of Freedom look ridiculous.

    I know. The unkindest cut of all, but it had to be said.

  • pablo

    STM

    Yes it was low, but I have put up over the last year and a half plenty of bs from Clavos, from personal attacks on a constant basis. The moment Clavos starts behaving as a civilized human being with me is the moment I reciprocate and not a moment before.

  • pablo

    STM

    It was this comment from Clavos that did not contribute to the debate that spurred my ire, that coupled with dozens of others in the past.

    “Irrelevant, but it makes them feel better about themselves.

    Which they desperately need to do.”

    He wants to dish it out, for no other reason than to be a prick, I can reciprocate all day long.

  • pablo

    Also STM, the fact is that Clavos regularly lets loose his mean streak not only with me but with others, and I am not one to spread the other cheek.

    Disagree with me fine, but denigrate me, and I will respond in kind. Clavos will not do that because if he tries to debate an issue civilly, he has little to stand on.

    I have a great idea to Clavos. Either ignore me, or be civil and see what happens. He won’t though as meanness is his forte.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Pablo, you are aware that there are other sections to BC beyond politics. When you say that there are, apparently, 10 people that “give a flying fuck about this site,” I’m assuming you’re just creatively missing Music, TV/Film, Culture, Sci/Tech, Sports, Books, Gaming, and Tastes. I’m assuming that you know how to work your internet machine and that you know that there are visitors to this website that venture far beyond your little Realm of Weird known as Politics.

    With all of the regular writers, comments, and discussion going on in other parts of the site nobody “gives a flying fuck about,” I guess my question is as valid as any:

    Am I assuming too much, champ?

  • pablo

    Jordan,

    What I said was:

    “Given that politics is not only a very important subject to most americans, and particularly now with the global meltdown, the fact that you have so few regular contributers speaks volumes about the sad state of affairs of blogcritics political section. Out of a country of over 300,00,000 and a planet of well over 6,000,000,000 the fact that you have about 10 folks who give a flying fuck about this site ought to send you scrambling for new contributers pal.”

    As you may or may not have noticed, I preface the 10 folks comment with a reference to the political section. I stand by my statement, there are all too few regular posters, less than 20 in fact.

    So yes you were assuming too much Jordan.

  • pablo

    In the interest of civility I offer this public apology to Clavos. My remark was mean, and uncalled for. I am sorry Clavos if I offended you.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Thanks for doing that, Pablo.

  • Jordan Richardson

    That’s what I get for skimming your posts, Pablo. I apologize.

  • Clavos

    Thank you, Pablo.

    In a similar spirit, I’m sorry for my past remarks and I will refrain from being mean to you henceforth.

  • M ark

    …and here I was expecting you to exchange xeroxes of your p….ecs or something.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Strange, Irene, but that image of Pablo preying on little waifs in order to use ‘em up never crossed my mind. Is it perhaps because I envy him?

    I don’t mean to detract from your message, but in the interest of fairness, I feel I must say that some of these eloquent and articulate people are also very mean spirited when push comes to shove. And I myself, despite my better judgment, found myself (more often in any case than I would have liked to) responding “in kind.” And I am not a mean person, generally speaking; but the internet is a limited medium, and to some it just means a green light no matter what. Were they to say some of the things they say here in person, I’d bash their head in, or we would have an ugly confrontation; and they wouldn’t. But as I say, everybody feels “safe” in this electronic environment and therefore “anything goes.” Perhaps you haven’t experienced some of this viper mentality because you’re a woman, but I have – even from these so-called “enlightened minds.” Just challenge them one way or another and see how enlightened they really are,

    So I do apologize from messing up your agenda with respect to Pablo, but I felt it incumbent upon me to put in my two cents (and I’m not a shill).

  • STM

    Cool, Pablo. Thumbs up champ.

  • pablo

    Roger,

    Very well put, and thank you for that comment, particularly about the difference from discussing an issue online or in person. On a different note I do not see Irene’s comment about me using up waifs, where can I find it?

    I don’t mean to toot my own horn, but those folks that do know me in person, know that I am a very nice person. I have many faults, but meanness is not one of them.

    Clavos, I welcome a new day of discussing the issues of the day in a conciliatory fashion, and thank you for accepting my apology.

  • pablo

    I do know that my writing, punctuation, and spelling are not as good as many on here, in my own defense, I never got out of tenth grade, as I was too busy having fun in San Francisco circa 1969, and I never returned to any further official educational endeavors. I was raised on rock and roll, columbian gold, and Albert Hoffman.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Now, that I’d have to believe, because you don’t write like a high school dropout.

  • pablo

    Roger,

    Yes I am a high school dropout. At age 14 I was suspended from my high school free speech class for wearing a button that said “The Great Society, Bombs, Bullets, and Bullshit”. I went home and my dad gave me 2 bucks to go and get a haircut. I hopped on the muni and went to Huckelberry House for Runaways. I used to appear on TV back then with the founder Larry Beggs as a token runaway. I spent the next 30 years following my favorite band, The Grateful Dead and seeing them some 700 times up until Jerry’s death in 1995. In short I was a hippie, long hair, revolution in the air, and good psychedelics. I never got into the pharmaceuticals, nor the hard stuff.

    I saw the best of the best back then, including Jimi Hendrix at Winterland, Otis Redding at the Fillmore, BB King, The Airplane, Quicksilver, and a bunch of other great bands. I never went to college, nor a trade school.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, Pablo. You must have been an avid reader, then, because your style and ease of expression are remarkable. You have nothing to apologize for. I wish I could be as fluent as you are.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Never mind the photos of pecs or whatever else starting with P was mentioned. I wanna see a picture of Pablo’s 12-fingered hand. You could make some awesome shadow puppets with that thing!

    ;-)

  • Ma ® k

    How can a deadhead be so dour? (On the other hand, Paul, I do know a bit about the impact of tragedy and wonder how you can be as pleasant as you are.)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, I take your word for it, of course, but you must be referring to times past. I’m relatively new to this site, only four months or so.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Now that the spirit of brotherly love and understanding is breaking out, I’ve decided we don’t need to see any more arguments between you lovely people, so let’s just move on to fresh ground.

  • pablo

    Fine by me Chris, a bit annoying as it does take a certain amount of EFFORT to post, but ok I will make no fuss.

  • pablo

    On the subject of politics I offer up these two articles that I read today, both of which I agree with for the most part concerning what is going on in the usa today.

    Why the End of America is Closer than You Think

    Geithner’s ‘Dirty Little Secret’: The Entire Global Financial System is at Risk

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Pablo,

    I read the first of your two offerings for news in comment #173. I definitely will need a tin-foil hat! Someone has been reading my mind, stealing my thoughts, and writing them down under his own name!

    Seriously, I have been telling you all pretty much the same thing myself. It’s nice to see that some folks can see what is really coming down the pike.

    I’ve been trying to develop a taste for olives, lamb and wine, because once the American economy implodes, that’s all there will be to eat around here! I’m checking out the quality of the leaves in my back yard to see what kind of toilet paper they will make. I definitely do not intend to use the sharp, prickly ones….

  • Cindy

    What a great thread this turned out to be.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Ruvy, it’s always been my opinion that one of the great shortcomings of the American diet is the insufficiency of lamb which we consume. I’d eat it 3 days a week if given the opportunity. Hell, I’ll even eat goat in a pinch as a substitute, but that’s really not on the radar for most Americans…yet.

    Dave

  • Cindy

    Does goat taste like lamb?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Sort of. It can be gamier.

    Dave

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #175: You must be kidding.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    In fact, all threads have been going kind of blah for two/three weeks at least. Perhaps everybody’s getting down on what’s happening – not a rosy future. Personally, I, too, am running out of energy/ideas, having nothing positive and inspiring to say and or write about. It is depressing.

  • Cindy

    It’s nice to see everyone getting along. Here Roger…have a free hug. :-)

    (I think that little video the fellow who started this has is very cool.)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I will try it. But I don’t think people are getting along. They’re just sapped.

  • Cindy

    I hope you get out soon. Maybe start a chess club at the library? Or even just put a notice for a chess partner at the coffee shop or somewhere?

  • Cindy

    Don’t forget the college.

    (gives Roger a shove out the door)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, yes, I tried that. Can’t be teaching there because don’t have the Master’s. I’ll try a high school and a private school once my little money gets in (hopefully within a few days). Right now I’m rolling tobacco into a newsprint and it tastes like shit. I’ll put my name for tutoring. All I need is extra $100 a week and I’ll pull myself out of the hole in two, three months perhaps. But for now, I’m imprisoned in my own house. A couple of more days.

  • STM

    Dave: “it’s always been my opinion that one of the great shortcomings of the American diet is the insufficiency of lamb which we consume”.

    Americans don’t know what they’re missing.

    We had a series of TV ads in Oz many years back in which ordinary Aussies would not that reluctantly knock back dates with famous people … because “mum’s cooking a lamb roast”.

    One of them was a girl (a young Naomi Watts, the actress, in 1990) who excitedly won a radio competition for a date with Tom Cruise and then had to knock it back had to fob him off because of the lamb dinner.

    I think in another, a young guy knocks back a date with supermodel Elle Macpherson.

    Two of the best things you’ll ever eat (if you’re a carnivore):

    1) A slow-cooked lamb leg roast with garlic and mint and oven-baked potatoes.

    2) Marinated lamb cutlets cooked on the barbecue.

    A great, sweet-tasting alternative to roast beef or steak.

    We’ll even sell it to ya!!

  • Cindy

    Stan,

    I just love your descriptions of food. You always make everything sound wonderful. (The huge white grub recipe notwithstanding.) Have you tried this?:

    I make a leg of lamb by cutting slits all over and sticking tons of sliced garlic in; then you rub the whole thing with olive oil followed by plenty of crushed rosemary.

    I agree with you and Dave; lamb is splendiferous–braised lamb shanks, lamb burgers, shepherd’s pie, lamb stew, rack of lamb and of course just plain chops.

  • pablo

    Roger 185

    It is very easy to get a job teaching english if you have a bachelors degree in Thailand, Taiwan, Korea, or Japan. As I am an expat, I have numerous friends doing such work, and they make fairly good dough.

    Also never underestimate making dough on the internet, which in my opinion is the best kind of bread to make, as you can live anywhere. If you are interested in this send me an email, and I will send you a few links of interest, that I do not wish to publicly share here. I make most of my money on the net.

    pablo

  • STM

    Cindy: “I make a leg of lamb by cutting slits all over and sticking tons of sliced garlic in; then you rub the whole thing with olive oil followed by plenty of crushed rosemary.”

    Yep, that’s the one :) There are all kinds of variations on that, though. Try some crushed fresh mint leaves either in with the Rosemary or with the garlic. Either way, you get the taste of the mint, and nothing goes with lamb like mint. You don’t need too much though.

    (A few fresh mint leaves in the blender/juicer are really, really yummy with fresh pineapple juice too. If you don’t have a blender or juicer, just crush ‘em up, stick em in a big glass of bottled/tinned pineapple juice, stir it up and stick the glass in the fridge for half an hour. Serve with ice on a hot day. Or make a big jug (pitcher?) of the stuff. Yum :)

    Next time I’m in the States, I’m dropping over to your place for a Sunday night lamb roast.

    And you’re dead-set right if you’ve guessed I DO love my tucker (that’s Aussie for food).

  • Cindy

    Or make a big jug (pitcher?)

    Ah, there is the one word I found that the Brits are jealous of Americans over–‘pitcher’.

    You are always welcomed to dinner Stan. And especially if you order a leg of lamb. I am developing low sodium, low cholesterol, and low sugar heart healthy recipes…so I don’t get to make a leg of lamb very often.

    P.S. I forgot to say to put crushed thyme in with the rosemary. It’s great.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Dave writeth,

    it’s always been my opinion that one of the great shortcomings of the American diet is the insufficiency of lamb which we consume. I’d eat it 3 days a week if given the opportunity. Hell, I’ll even eat goat in a pinch as a substitute, but that’s really not on the radar for most Americans…yet.

    Well, in Ma’ale Levona, we do have goats – but they’re for milk, cheese, and for cutting the grass. In fact, we have an overgrown yard, and I’m thinking of making an arrangement to have one of the goatherds in the village bring his goats over to snack on my yard. It’s cheaper than buying a lawn mower and having to worry about the electric bill (here they work on juice, not gas) as well as the rocks in the dirt that could break the lawn mowers blades!

    Were it not for the really hard fat that lamb has (not to mention the outrageous prices) I would like to eat more lamb myself. But, for the most part, my wallet is a vegetarian – therefore, so am I. But, we’ll see if that changes once your dollar goes down the toilet bowl.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    If you happen to be in London at Notting Hill Carnival time, curried goat is the street food of choice. Delicious.

  • Clavos

    Curried goat (the Jamaican variety) is widely available in Miami, where we have a large and thriving Jamaican population.

  • STM

    Yeah, curry goat … I’m up for that. How good is it? (rhetorical question).

    The food of choice to go with an icy-cold bottle or 10 of Red Stripe.

  • Smellerbee

    Well, back in those days we lived in America and I was like a lot of people and worked for a small business.”

    A lot of people? No a minority of people. Most people in America work for large corporations and then the government and then small business.

    “Sometimes we worked 60 or 70 hours a week, but we earned good money and made our customers happy and we provided well for our families.”

    You made average money, your service was good but your stock was minimal and you were bought out by a major corporation.

    If you really want a world that rewards hard work (instead of playing the market or being a “manager”) and cares about it’s workers then capitalism has got to go.

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