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The Symptom

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It should be known by now that nearly 300 people could have died on Christmas day. Their lives weren't saved by the TSA or by Janet Napolitano or "outstretched hands." And despite the very heroic actions of those on the plane, heroes didn't save the nearly 300 passengers and crew on flight 253. Instead, the only thing that stopped all reasoned and feeling human beings from waking up to a horrible tragedy on Christmas was the incompetence of the terrorist himself. Had his execution been a little bit better, we'd be talking about recovering black boxes right now instead of whether or not the system worked.

As Jennifer Rubin points out, the Obama administration's handling of this occasion has been characterized by their typical bungling; the initial gaffe, followed by clarification, and then capped off by Obama's own empty speechifying. Yet, after Obama's incessant, near daily press conferences since his inauguration, it's hard to understand why he'd dodge the cameras immediately following the attempted attack, at precisely the time when Americans would have liked to hear from him. In light of 8 years of My Pet Goat ing by the left of the Bush administration, it was pathetic to read lefties on the various blogs, and their media cohorts in the New York Times, and CBS try to explain away as part of some ninja-chessmaster strategy or worse, an inconvenient interruption of Obama's holiday, the lack of any real response from the Commander-in-Chief following the attack . To have that followed up with Janet Napolitano's and Robert Gibbs' foolish comments Sunday morning that "the system worked" provides even more evidence, as if it were needed, that this administration is, horrifically, in way over its head, cheered on by a hyper-partisan left which will applaud any action or lack thereof, whether it's ultimately good or bad for the country.

But it's not the administration's immediate response that is the problem. While this last experience emphasizes a particular incompetence at basic crisis management and communication skills, and while many of the questions being raised now about racial and behavioral profiling and other preventative tactics are good discussions, I think many people are missing the larger point.  Consider that, in the year since Obama has taken office, we are no longer fighting the Bush War on Terror. As one of her first actions as head of the DHS, and grabbing onto the mantle of change, Janet Napolitano revised the wording for the War on Terror as "Overseas Contingency Operations" and the attacks themselves as "Man-Caused Disasters." And although it had no credible threats to support the concern, in April 2009 Napolitano's own DHS warned law enforcement organizations throughout the country that they should be on the lookout for terrorists — not Islamic terrorists working in cahoots with, or in the spirit of, Al Qaeda, but rather terrorists following the supposed fatwah of radio personality Rush Limbaugh.

On the foreign policy front, the Obama administration has gone through pains to ingratiate itself with its enemies, including the likes of Iran, which actively sponsors terror and is directly responsible for killing American troops in Iraq. Meanwhile, our allies have been disenfranchised or even insulted outright in many cases. The total lack of American leadership, or at a minimum vocal support, for the burgeoning revolution in Iran was a hit on democracy and human rights, and boosted the proponents of tyranny and oppression across the globe. Our silence also directly hurt our interests in Iran, which incidentally continues its pursuit of nukes (and has now started rubbing it in our face).

On Afghanistan, the supposed "good war": after taking months to respond to his appointed general's pleas for more troops (this after already claiming to make the decision to fight in the spring), Obama begrudgingly agreed to send some, but not all, of the troops requested, along with an expiration date. This was the good war, the war we must fight. But only for about 18 months, of course.

Repeating the mistakes of 9/11, our government has gone back to treating terrorism primarily as a criminal matter. Note Obama's decision to move terrorists to U.S. prisons, complete with (inexplicably), constitutional rights, at least in some situations. Also note his decision to try the main perpetrators of 9/11 in federal criminal courts in New York City as if these terrorists merely broke federal law, as opposed to attacking the country in an act of war. All the while, political correctness rather than concern for our nation colors the very lens through which the Obama administration sees the world, as we saw with their steadfast denial that the shootings at Ft Hood and other "lone wolf" attacks by sympathizers of Al Qaeda in the name of Islam were terrorism, and were instead just cases of individual mental illness. I suppose that Napolitano would have taken these attacks a bit more seriously had one of the dead in Ft. Hood been a practicing abortion doctor instead of mere military personnel enroute to fight our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Further demoralizing those heroic Americans who risk their lives every day so we can go about our day in ignorant safety, Obama's AG Holder continues his investigation into the CIA's methods used on captured terrorists in the immediate aftermath of 9/11. This, even though the methods were already investigated once before, used sparingly, and in spite of the fact that agents were operating under the counsel of government attorneys at the time, and in the best interests of the country. Rubbing salt into this gaping wound are the courts martial this year of three Navy Seals for punching in the stomach a captured terrorist described by CNN as an "alleged mastermind of one of the most notorious crimes against Americans in Iraq."

While the debate rages over screening techniques and new carry-on luggage rules, the real story goes untold. Our enemies are emboldened by our President's extremely inadequate foreign policy leadership and are undeterred by the threat of habeas corpus, Miranda rights and legal representation as punishment for their attacks. Those Americans who have volunteered to take on the responsibility of protecting us are slapped down and demonized at every turn by this administration, even while heroically doing their jobs in the aftermath of 9/11 and in the impossible warfare conditions of Iraq or Afghanistan today.

As the rapper Nas likes to say, "it ain't hard to tell" this is how flight 253 happened, lives saved by the mercy of evil's incompetence, not by the will of an America serious about protecting herself.

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About The Obnoxious American

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Welcome back, Obnox, although I must say I’d like a map of whichever twisted version of reality you seem to have wandered into during your absence.

    I don’t think instantly putting the entire country on lockdown and then bombing some things (as was the wont of the previous Administration) is an appropriate response to what was, after all, a botched terrorist attack. Since terrorists are basically just trying to get attention, an effective strategy is to acknowledge their pathetic antics as little as practically possible. Re-christening the ‘War on Terror’ seems to me to be one good way of doing that.

    A determined terrorist is going to, eventually, find some way round whatever security measures you put in place and the ones we have at the moment seem to be working fairly well. You make it sound as if Napolitano’s directive to law enforcement agencies was that they should ONLY be looking at right-wing extremists, which you know perfectly well was not the case: she was merely advising that they should take note of a particular new threat.

    Your main thesis, that Obama’s approach has led more or less directly to this incident, just won’t wash. It’s as spurious as the charge that Bush’s approach somehow caused 9/11.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    As good Doc say, Obnox, it’s time to grow up. How long are you going to persist in displaying the same ole stale thinking?

    I wouldn’t be saying this, friend, if I didn’t think you were capable of reaching greater heights than spewing out the propaganda that originates more often than not on the conservative talk-shows. I do know you have greater originality and intelligence to be simply parroting the lines of such imbeciles as Limbaugh, Hannity or Glenn Beck. So please surprise me, will you? Or rather, why don’t you live up once in a while to the faith I have in you?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Obnoxious,

    nearly 300 people could have died on Christmas day.

    Since the flight was on approach to landing at the Detroit airport, there could have been far more casualties on the ground. You know, airplane parts, people falling out of the sky, and whatever.

    Still, we must congratulate the Obama administration because no elderly Episcopalian bishops or three year old toddlers have been able to cause such a disaster. Obviously, the system is working and all we need to do is to search such folks with greater diligence.

    Not only that, but there has been not one CAIR complaint about discrimination. What more do you want?

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Typical Dan Miller.

    Some things never change.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Roger,

    Truer words were never written.

    Dan(Miller)

  • FitzBoodle

    Wow! 300 people! And even more on the ground!

    Yet, every month 4000 Americans die from being denied healthcare because they don’t have the right insurance. What should we do about THOSE terrorists?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Doesn’t mean, Dan, I don’t appreciate your usual pointed sarcasm. I just don’t want you to be corrupting the minds of the innocent, like the good old Obnoxious.

  • The Obnoxious American

    Doc, is that a strawman in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?

    Roger, I always appreciate your friendship and please don’t take this the wrong way but try reading the actual article beyond the byline. I’ve made quite a simple connect-the-dots, cause and effect type case here. If I’m wrong, it should be pretty easy to disprove.

    Dan, you’ve got a point.

    FitzBoodle, To loosely paraphrase Doc (who incidentally was doing a cheap impression of Barney Frank’s summertime townhall appearance) how is the weather on your planet?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Obnoxious,

    I am terribly sorry if I corrupted you. Mea culpa, mea culpa mea maxima culpa. But, you can take it!

    However, unfortunate though it may be, there are others trying the same thing.

    Dan(Miller)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Good grief!

    I neglected to post this link.

    Dan(Miller)

  • The Obnoxious American

    Thanks Dan, and I am glad to hear it. The more people talking about this important point the better.

    That fact that there are lost souls (as evidenced in this very thread) who can’t connect the dots between our wearing weakness on our sleeves and beating down the very people who protect us, and the very real fact that once again we were attacked and would have lost many lives if not for sheer luck and imcompetence is proof that yes, this can happen again and again. We have to speak out about it.

    Some folks might never understand the direct cause and effect link of taking your eye off the ball such as this administration did, and the resulting lowering of defenses (and loss of will to defend by our military and intel community). That’s ok. As long as a majority of people get it (and polls seem to show that they are starting to), that’s all we need.

  • Clavos

    Yet, every month 4000 Americans die from being denied healthcare because they don’t have the right insurance.

    According to whom? Got a link?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan(Miller)

    Clav,

    If there is no response to your #12, maybe you can find the information here.

    Dan(Miller)

  • Glenn Contrarian

    OA –

    So if this “brief bomber” is a symptom of the Obama Administrations incompetence or carelessness or whatever…

    …then what would you call 9/11, the anthrax mailings, and the shoe bomber?

    …AND what would you call the Iraq war, which was waged on false pretenses?

    Come to think of it, what would you call Iran-Contra?

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Right wingers. I luv ‘em. They only read what they WANT to read about any story.

    “Sources tell the Chronicle that Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab is believed to have traveled to Houston in 2008 and stayed here for about two weeks. FBI agents have visited the Sheraton Houston Brookhollow Hotel at 3000 North Loop West where it is believed he stayed.

    A spokesperson for the hotel said they have no comment except to say they are cooperating with federal authorities.

    Federal agents are making these kinds of checks in many cities around the country where they are relatives, associates and others and some cities may have a major role in the investigation. It’s unclear yet whether Houston will be one of those major role cities, sources said.

    A U.S. government official confirms that Abdulmutallab was issued a two-year visa in June 2008 from the U.S. Embassy in London. The official said it was mostly likely either a student or visitor visa.”

    But…But…Obama wasn’t President in 2008, and Janet Napolitano wasn’t Head of Homeland Security. How did this guy get on a plane last year, fly to Houston (a city in the United States) and stay two weeks undetected?

    How did this guy get a visa from the U.S. Embassy in London in June 2008?

    Please, right wingers…fill us all in on this…or do you believe the narrative that Umar was a swell, great guy who was safe to fly here up untill Obama’s Inauguration Day…

    Harvard Study Finds 45,000 Die a Year Due to Lack of Health Coverage

    –Cobra

  • The Obnoxious American

    Glenn,

    I’m here and ready to debate the points in the article. Anyone care to do that with me? First Doc comes out putting words in my mouth, then arguing with those words. Now you’re asking me if this concept can be applied throughout history. This isn’t about Bush, Glenn. And more over, at least with Bush at the helm I’d know there was an ideological desire to actually see America prevail in this war on terror. And given that the CURRENT president can’t even call this a war makes Bush look real good right now. But back to the points in the article:

    Are you really debating with me that the Obama admin’s endless attack on the CIA hasn’t hurt morale, and thus our ability to learn of threats and deal with them in advance? That the treatment of those seals hasn’t de-spirited many of the rest of the military that is out there fighting on our behalf and keeping us safe?

    On the flipside, are you really going to argue that the incompetence and weakness displayed by Obama (specific examples in the article) has not embolded our enemies, both large and small?

    See in real life, there are consequences to our actions. What we’ve been seeing since January 20th is a consequence of our actions on November 4th, and at least PART of the consequences of the many boneheaded actions of the Obama administration is that we’ve seen terror attempts such as the one on Christmas, which despite plenty of red flags and early warnings, was allowed to happen anyway and was only not deadly because the terrorist himself screwed up. Not an acceptable situation 9 years after 9/11.

    Here is the article’s premise in mathematical form, hopefully this helps make it clear exactly the point I am making:

    (Show Weakness to Enemies + Abuse Military and CIA) = Experience Terror Attacks

  • STM

    So, using the same argument, was 9/11 a symptom of the Bush administration’s (lax) handling of both internal security and (misguided) foreign policy?

    Big price to pay if so.

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    STM,

    You notice Obnoxious hasn’t explained to us how Umar can get on a plane and fly to Houston, Texas in 2008, or how he could get a visa from the US Embassy in London June 2008.

    –Cobra

  • The Obnoxious American

    Cobra,

    Having a visa is irrelevant, and there is no reason why he could not also be on the “selectee” list or the no fly list, which he should have been when his father warned of his increasing militance MONTHS ago. That said, I find it absurdly comedic that you’d try to lay this on the Bush administration. It’s getting old. And has nothing to do with the article which I’d urge you to actually read.

  • The Obnoxious American

    STM,

    I think that Bush absolutely can be blamed for that, as can the rest of us. There’s actually a term for it, “The Pre 9-11 Mindset.”

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Putting words in your mouth, was I?

    “Napolitano’s own DHS warned law enforcement organizations throughout the country that they should be on the lookout for terrorists — not Islamic terrorists working in cahoots with, or in the spirit of, Al Qaeda, but rather terrorists following the supposed fatwah of radio personality Rush Limbaugh.”

    Those words?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Show Weakness to Enemies

    Such as by highlighting Napolitano’s directive out of context, as many right-wing pundits did, to make it look as if…?

    Abuse Military and CIA

    I can’t, offhand, think of any instances where Obama or members of his Administration have done this.

    All of which together makes your math rather wonky.

  • The Obnoxious American

    Doc

    Here are some examples of what I am talking about:

    I don’t think instantly putting the entire country on lockdown and then bombing some things (as was the wont of the previous Administration) is an appropriate response to what was, after all, a botched terrorist attack. “

    This wasn’t what I was perscribing as a solution.

    You make it sound as if Napolitano’s directive to law enforcement agencies was that they should ONLY be looking at right-wing extremists

    Not at all what I was making it look like.

    Your main thesis, that Obama’s approach has led more or less directly to this incident, just won’t wash.

    That’s NOT the main thesis at all. The thesis is Obama has had a two pronged approach of demoralizing the people who protect us and showing weakness or enabling our enemies. Plenty of people even in the mainstream media have commented on it. This terror attack wasn’t directly caused by Obama but he certainly hasn’t helped much to prevent it either. Shouldn’t that be Job #1? How many manhours spent looking at Right Wing terrorists could have maybe been spent actually “connecting the dots”

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    Speaking of terrible math, Bush stopped fighting the Bush War on Terror before he left office and they also changed the name to “struggle against global extremism.” Did you throw a hissy fit then?

    “they should be on the lookout for terrorists — not Islamic terrorists”

    which was soon followed by the terrorist who killed Dr. Tiller of Kansas. Turns out she was right on that score.

    I get you disagree with Obama and his team’s tactics, but your ignorance of the facts makes it difficult for me to think you are well informed on the subject and keep me from moving past pg 1.

    Why is the right so concerned about the CIA now when it was okay to go after the organization and our military when Bush was in charge?

    “loss of will to defend by our military and intel community”

    I have a friend currently serving and if you made a comment like that about his will to defend and protect this country to his face, I guarantee you wouldn’t do it again after you woke up. It’s not your place to speak for anyone else.

  • STM

    As for showing weakness to enemies, the US isn’t doing that, which is why it is currently with its allies fighting a protracted war in Afghanistan … that it can win if it does so in the right way.

    Ie, not just blowing the sh.t out of everything in a vague attempt to “bring democracy”.

    I’d say the last thing the US is doing at the moment is showing weakness, although it has in the post-Vietnam era been too quick to run because of fears that it won’t sit well with the voting public at home.

    Unpalatable it may be in many cases, but the truth is, there are some places that need a whack with a big stick because that’s the only way they learn a lesson.

    My simple advice to the US would be to make sure they are whacking the right people.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Sen. Jim DeMint, indirect supporter of imposing capital punishment on homosexuals in Uganda, has held up the nomination of the new head of TSA for political reasons. So, when you listen to FOX News and the GOP slam President Obama on this latest terror attempt, remember that Senator DeMint, the patriotic servant of the people, is equally to blame. South Carolina, do America a favor, send this piece of work packing. Senator DeMint is a disgrace to the United States of America.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    How many manhours spent looking at Right Wing terrorists could have maybe been spent actually “connecting the dots”

    Obnox, one failed attack in a year hardly constitutes an upturn in terror activity, so using it to suggest that Obama’s approach has emboldened our enemies is a very weak thesis.

  • The Obnoxious American

    Doc,

    It’s actually more than one if you count Ft Hood, which I do. There was a similar attack on a recruitment center earlier this year as well if I remember. That makes three.

    Moreover, my thesis isn’t that there is an upturn in terror activity either, and I never made any such claim. Actually this goes to my point even more. Let’s assume there’s been no upturn, and the amount of terror attack attempts have been constant or less than since 9/11. That would mean for the past 8 years we’ve been able to successfully intervene attacks up till now. Up till Obama that is. But I digress, this too isn’t my thesis, though it’s much closer to the point.

    And BTW if you’re looking for examples of what I am talking about when I say “show weakness” and “abuse military and cia,” just read the article attached to this discussion. That’s what I’m talking about. You “can’t offhand think of any instances…” just scroll up Doc!

  • The Obnoxious American

    El Bicho,

    The problem with your post is, Bush actually did keep us safe after 9/11. When did Tom Ridge come out against MoveOn.org as a threat? When did Bush setup a CIA investigation to criminalize manhandling terrorists? Please guy, your argument makes no sense whatsoever. I’m not saying Bush was the greatest. He wasn’t but this guy is making him look like George F’ing Washington.

  • STM

    Having lived for a time in a country where the threat of terrorism was a daily reality, I can tell you that everyone is a possible terrorist – or a possible unwitting tool of a terrorist.

    And of course, there is a real threat from the extreme right. There always is. Of course, NOW there’s an even bigger fly in the ointment: that uppity blackfella in the White House trying to strip all these decent, hard workin’, clean livin’ white folks of their rights.

    Anyway, judging by the limited terror activity lately apart from this one failed attempt, something must be going right for the security agencies in the US.

  • STM

    Can’t count Ft Hood, OA. That was purely a criminal act committed by a lone gunman who may or may not have all his marbles.

  • STM

    OA: “That would mean for the past 8 years we’ve been able to successfully intervene attacks up till now.”

    You’re forgetting shoe bomber Richard Reid, another failed al-Qaeda attack on a US-bound plane a few years back. Luckily, his bomb fizzled out too.

    The circumstances were virtually identical. That happened during the Bush administration.

    The truth is, OA, the security agencies of western countries around the world are doing such a good job, al-Qaeda has had to resort to a) sticking a bomb in a shoe and b) sticking one down a bloke’s undies (hope he listended to his mum’s admonition to always wear clean ones) because they can’t do much else.

    And, yeah, you’re right: there have also been dozens of foiled attacks in which plans were afoot to bring to either bring down jets in multiple attacks or launch attacks on soft targets like shopping centres and nigtclubs.

    Others have been foiled in the UK, Germany, France, Spain, Australia …. etc

    Come on OA, get fair dinkum: nice try mate, but this one doesn’t really fly (pardon the pun).

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    What must be frustrating for the Obama Administration is the simple fact that much of what goes on behind the scenes to thwart terror attempts does not get picked up by the MSM for very good reason — NATIONAL SECURITY. Under the Bush Regime, members of Congress knew damn well that plenty was going on that was never discussed. And, heaven forbid, it was rare when a member of Congress would criticize the Bush Doctrine, especially in the first few years following 9/11. The bottom line is plenty is being done behind the scenes that we don’t know. Did the Obama Administration make a few missteps? Probably. But is this enough to hose the man down and break him? No. Remember, Senator Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina has single-handedly thwarted the President’s attempt to fill the helm at TSA> So if anyone is pissed about what happened Christmas Day, call Senator DeMint, except on Sundays because he claims he worships his God.

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Obnoxious,

    It’s completely RELEVANT that this man was issued a visa from the US Embassy in London, June 2008, because people on the official Terrorist Watchlist are DENIED them.
    Case in point: Nobel Peace Prize winner Nelson Mandela had to get special permission from the State Department to visit the United States. Why is Mandela on the Terrorist Watchlist? Because the ANC opposed the White Apartheid Government of South Africa, and he was part of that group.

    If this guy got a visa, and traveled by PLANE to the United States in 2008, he didn’t set off any flags from the BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

    2008 is NOT “ancient history”. It’s LAST YEAR.

    Stop Obama bashing for five seconds and answer the question put to you.

    –Cobra

  • Jordan Richardson

    Bush actually did keep us safe after 9/11.

    Safe from “terrorism,” sure. But he probably had more to do with the notion of establishing global terror networks due to his cowboy diplomacy than any president in recent memory. Bush made more enemies in his 8 years than most people can make in a lifetime.

    Compare that to Obama, who’s dealt with repairing the reputation set by Bush, and I think your case gets pretty flimsy.

    And, just to push this further, let’s remember the State Department’s definition of terrorism: “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.”

    There’s little, if anything, about the Ft. Hood tragedy that matches that definition.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “Of course, NOW there’s an even bigger fly in the ointment: that uppity blackfella in the White House trying to strip all these decent, hard workin’, clean livin’ white folks of their rights.”

    That’s a good one, Stan the Man. Obviously, you’re in good form today.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    You “can’t offhand think of any instances…” just scroll up Doc!

    I’m sorry that you feel this administration’s insistence that the country’s crimefighting and intelligence agencies act within the law and respect human rights is demoralising, Obnox. Very sorry indeed.

    I also disagree vehemently that treating captured terrorists as if they were combatants is the right approach. They are nothing but common criminals, and the successful execution of an attack which happened to kill 3000 people doesn’t change that.

    Putting them in front of military tribunals and otherwise denying them due process isn’t just lazy, it also gives them legitimacy. It fulfils their twisted fantasies of being soldiers.

    If you catch some kid who robbed a post office and shot the clerk, you put him on trial and shove him in jail. You don’t tell him he’s a member of Ocean’s Eleven.

  • STM

    Thanks Rog. I like OA too (G’day OA!), just don’t agree with some of his views.

  • Jordan Richardson

    OA,

    Curious about something: if you count the Ft. Hood incident as a terrorist attack, do you also count the follow incidents as terrorist attacks:

    – Anthrax attacks of September 2001 and onward, perpetrated by Bruce Edwards Ivins as an attack against pro-choice Catholic senators.

    – Luke Helder, the kid who planted pipe bombs across the US in May of 2002 with an intention to make a smiley face because he was pissed off about government control, etc.

    – Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, the Egyptian terrorist who shot up the Los Angeles International Airport on July 4, 2002. Federal investigators concluded that this was, indeed, a terrorist attack.

    – Omeed Aziz Popal, the guy who intentionally struck 18 pedestrians (killing one) with his SUV in San Francisco in August of 2006. While the police did not conclude that this was a terrorist attack, the perpetrator called himself a terrorist and had just returned from Afghanistan after an arranged marriage.

    – Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, the guy who intentionally hit people in his SUV at the University of North Carolina in March of 2006 with the intention to avenge the deaths of Muslims worldwide (his words). The perpetrator also said: “I was aiming to follow in the footsteps of one of my role models, Mohamed Atta, one of the 9/11 hijackers, who obtained a doctorate degree.”

    – Naveed Afzal Haq, who shot six women (one fatally) at a Seattle Jewish center in July of 2006. Haq blamed the Bush Administration for giving money to Jews and Israel.

    There are more, of course, but one really does start to wonder how safe Bush kept the United States from acts of terror – especially if the Ft. Hood attacks are utilized crudely to put blood on the hands of Barack Obama.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “The problem with your post is, Bush actually did keep us safe after 9/11.”

    The problem with your post is, you are unaware there is a reality that exists beyond your limited knowledge of events and history.

    Tell the victims of these terrorist attacks in the U.S. during Bush’s watch that he kept them safe:

    2001

    Anthrax attacks on the offices the United States Congress and New York State Government offices, and on employees of television networks and tabloids.

    2002

    July 4: An Egyptian gunman, Hesham Mohamed Hadayet, opens fire at an El Al ticket counter in Los Angeles International Airport, killing two Israelis before being killed himself.

    October: John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo conduct the Beltway Sniper Attacks, killing ten people in various locations throughout the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area from October 2 until they are arrested on October 24.

    2006

    Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar, an Iranian-born graduate of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, drives an SUV onto a crowded part of campus, injuring nine.

    August

    An Afghani Muslim hit 19 pedestrians, killing one, with his SUV in the San Francisco Bay area.

    Now, I don’t blame Bush and the people in charge, unlike the disgusting ghouls on the right are doing with Obama. I am sure they did the best they could. They stopped a number of incidents from occurring, but it’s impossible to stop 100% of attacks.

    You really should educate yourself because it’s continually apparent you have no idea what you are talking about in this area.

  • Clavos

    Cobra asks

    how he (the bumbler bomber) could get a visa from the US Embassy in London June 2008.

    Easy. The people who work for the US federal government are incompetent, regardless of who’s president (most of whom are also incompetent) or which department is involved.

    Federal civil service is the refuge of those who aren’t able to hold a job in the real world.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    It’s possible, I suppose, that all the above incidents which happened on Bush’s watch were just bad luck, while the Christmas Day attack resulted from the nation’s defenders not being able to do their job properly because Obama is being Horrid to them.

    But I think it’s more possible that nothing substantive has changed, and that Obnox simply doesn’t have sufficient data with which to construct a robust theory.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Clav declares:

    The people who work for the US federal government are incompetent

    Well, they let me in…

    ;-)

  • Clavos

    If this guy got a visa, and traveled by PLANE to the United States in 2008, he didn’t set off any flags from the BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

    Neither the Bush administration nor any other administration issues visas, the incompetent buffoons who are career civil service employees of the State Department do, and because they are civil service and nearly impossible to fire, they remain in place administration after administration, ad infinitum and nauseam.

  • Clavos

    Can’t count Ft Hood, OA. That was purely a criminal act committed by a lone gunman who may or may not have all his marbles.

    But who admits to being motivated by his whacko religious beliefs.

  • zingzing

    blaming obama for a failed terrorist attack is rather silly. if the guy had had something more substantial in his underwear (oooo), it’s quite possible he would have been caught. it’s also quite possible he wouldn’t have. it’s been shown time and again that you can sneak shit by the tsa, both before obama and during.

    this is a pretty flimsy attack on obama, and obviously desperate at that. if you want to attack obama, you’ve got bigger, more substantial targets (oooo, part 2) that you could go for.

    pathetic. what next? i know we on the left certainly are guilty of this kind of bullshit as well, but you on the right have taken it to a new level. game-changer. i’m kinda looking forward to the right being back in control. (it should happen at least one more time before they die off.)

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Neither the Bush administration nor any other administration issues visas, the incompetent buffoons who are career civil service employees of the State Department do, and because they are civil service and nearly impossible to fire, they remain in place administration after administration, ad infinitum and nauseam.

    That being said, buffoonery was at an all time high in the Bush State Department. From State Department employees I have actually talked to, the atmosphere there is radically changed. During the Bush years the State Dept operated in the shadow of Don Rumsfeld and his Satanic leader, Dick Cheney. There was a collective frustration with the Bush Administration in that diplomacy was not at the top of their agenda.

    The point is well taken that the fault lies with career diplomats and employees of the State Department. And, in doing their review, I am certain that the current Secretary of State will insure this never happens again. We must remember that this is the first time in 8 years that the Departments of State and Defense have a robust, interactive communications pipeline. Secretary Gates and Secretary Clinton are team players who serve this country exceedingly well. So well that it’s unfortunate Hillary Clinton is not President today. She would have been astounding.

    And, let’s be fair here, folks! If that VISA were issued on January 22, 2009 members of the GOP and the whacko radical right wing would be all over Barack Obama like a queue in front of Kentucky Fried Chicken during the Million Man March. But it happened on Bush Watch and the conserva-dee-bags are mysteriously silent. Peter King and Rep. Hokstra would serve this country well by using their Congressional seniority for constructive purposes as opposed to stoking the fires of hate toward Barack Obama. But what do I know? I’m a poor old slob who actually votes in EVERY election.

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Clavos writes:

    “Federal civil service is the refuge of those who aren’t able to hold a job in the real world.”

    But you claim to have worked for the US Postal Service…which makes you—

    :-)

    –Cobra

  • Franco

    14 – Glenn Contrarian

    So if this “brief bomber” is a symptom of the Obama Administrations incompetence or carelessness or whatever…

    …then what would you call 9/11, the anthrax mailings, and the shoe bomber?

    …AND what would you call the Iraq war, which was waged on false pretenses?

    Come to think of it, what would you call Iran-Contra?

    Wow Glenn, you’re stuck so chin deep in partisan bull shit you have lost all common sense.

    FACT: It is because of 9/11, and because of anthrax mailings, and because of the shoe bomber, and especially because of the war in Iraq, that there are now no more excuses that cut the mustard.

    For the Obama administration to first try to scramble to portray the episode as a test that the air safety system passed, is a flat out lie and they quickly knew we all knew it (evidently except for you).

    Then they tried changing horses in mid-stream and claimed that federal agencies were not fully communicating with each other (Obama using a Bush excuse – classic I have to say), and yet it was Obama who campaigned on this very exact issue and said he was going to change over all this so they all communicated more and better then ever before.

    OA is correct in saying this administration is in over its head. It’s all mouth. The really scary part is this administration is not being held accountable for it because of the likes of partisan hacks swimming in bull shit like you that keep letting them off the hook of their freely chosen responsibility.

  • zingzing

    franco, you’re just as much a partisan hack as anyone around here, so don’t stick your nose up to high… you might reach your lower intestine.

    “The really scary part is this administration is not being held accountable”

    oh my. you’ll find the shit on your shoes will stick to obama if you throw it at him hard enough. you’d blame the rain on him. some guy sticks a fire cracker in his buttcrack and you think it’s his fault? nice try.

  • Franco

    15 – Cobra

    How did this guy get on a plane last year, fly to Houston (a city in the United States) and stay two weeks undetected?

    How did this guy get a visa from the U.S. Embassy in London in June 2008?

    Please, right wingers…fill us all in on this…or do you believe the narrative that Umar was a swell, great guy who was safe to fly here up untill Obama’s Inauguration Day…

    Cobra, Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was reported to the CIA by his father Alhaji Uma Abdulmutallab about a month before boarding the plane to Detroit. Pryor to that he was not listed on any suspect list before his father alerted authorities 30 days ago. So his name was not listed on any suspect list in 2008.

    What is it about that part of the story you don’t understand?

    Now how is it his name was entered on the suspect list 30 days ago (fresh information) and he was still able to purchase a ticket (in cash) for the US and (not check any bags) and he still got through under the current administrations watch?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Ah hell. Was going to point out what Franco brought up. Umar’s 2008 visa is a red herring because he wasn’t yet on the watch list at that point.

    Dave

  • Franco

    50 – zingzing

    franco, you’re just as much a partisan hack as anyone around here, so don’t stick your nose up to high… you might reach your lower intestine.

    There is a far cry of difference between a partisan losing all common sense and a partisan hanging on to it Mr. zingzing. Are you trying to prove the former? I have come to expect more from you then this. Or are you just tired, lazy and sloppy tonight?

  • STM

    Clav: “But who admits to being motivated by his whacko religious beliefs.”

    True, but it makes him no different to the fundamentalist Christian nutcases who bomb abortion clinics.

    Someone with a tea-towel wrapped around his head and living in a nice cave somewhere wasn’t revving him up, though.

  • Ruvy

    I can’t believe you fools. All of you are stupid enough to fall for the Republican/ Democratic split and fight and argue. You deserve the incompetence you get.

    Incompetence is in incompetence. America has ONE political party, the Republocrats, and they don’t give a damn about any of you – only their own pockets.

    Obama is as incompetent as the stupid schmuck who preceded him. His foreign policy is yielding you absolutely nothing, His economic policies are sidelining you as powers in the world, and the fumbling of his security folks in the face of terror attacks, both on Christmas day and in Fort Hood demonstrates what a damned incompetent Obama and his flunkies are.

    LITTLE CHILDREN PLAYING AT BEING GOD ARE RUNNING YOUR NATION RIGHT INTO THE GROUND! THEY’VE BEEN DOING THAT FOR A DECADE NOW. AND NONE OF YOU SEEM TO BE ABLE TO SEE THAT.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    FACT: It is because of 9/11, and because of anthrax mailings, and because of the shoe bomber, and especially because of the war in Iraq, that there are now no more excuses that cut the mustard.

    How… convenient.

  • STM

    Doc: “Well, they let me in…”

    They couldn’t get anyone to live in Fresno. And you thought you were going to Calfor-ny-aye … beaches, babes, palm trees, surf, thongs

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Franco writes:

    “Cobra, Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab was reported to the CIA by his father Alhaji Uma Abdulmutallab about a month before boarding the plane to Detroit. Pryor to that he was not listed on any suspect list before his father alerted authorities 30 days ago. So his name was not listed on any suspect list in 2008.”

    Not according to the London Times Online:

    “Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, graduated from a university in London last year but his visa request was refused in May when he attempted to apply for a new course at a bogus college…

    For the past two years Abdulmutallab has been on a United States watchlist for people known to have extremist links, but he was not prevented from flying to America. UK officials indicated that he had passed across MI5’s radar but was not deemed sufficiently threatening to warrant surveillance.”

    In other words, even Her Majesty’s Secret Service had this guy flagged, but not enough to watch him closely.

    Umar’s father went to the US Embassy in Nigeria to “express concerns about his son.” From the BBC:

    “The father, a top Nigerian banker, warned US authorities last month about 23-year-old Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab’s extreme views, say officials.

    US sources confirm a file was opened, but say the information did not warrant placing the accused on a “no-fly” list…”

    …In recent months Mr Mutallab is said to have become alarmed about the political views of his son, who is a former engineering student at University College London.

    He approached the US embassy in Abuja in November to voice concerns about his son, according to American officials.

    The family have told the BBC Hausa service that they lost contact with Mr Mutallab in October, when he was living in Yemen.

    He left there for Ethiopia, then went to Ghana and finally Nigeria, US officials have told his family.”

    Follow the details, Franco. Umar boarded KLM 588, a Dutch Airline out of Nigeria, which is famous because:

    “Anti-terrorist measures in Nigeria’s airports are haphazard and corruption among police, customs and security officials is endemic, she adds.”

    That’s what I love about British News. They flesh out all kinds of juicy facts:

    “Mr Abdulmutallab’s name had been added to a security watch-list of more than half a million individuals, known as Terrorist Identities Datamart Environment (Tide).

    But there was apparently not enough information to include his name on the smaller Terrorist Screening Data Base, which includes a no-fly list.”

    And to further back up, STM’s excellent point about Richard Reid, who not only used the same chemicals PETN in his failed shoe-bombing attempt in 2001 after 9/11, but…
    but…
    but…
    The Bush Administration claimed that this attack thwarted by civilian passagers was a VICTORY!

    “In a press conference on January 17, 2002, then-Attorney General John Ashcroft made a similar claim about shoe-bomber Richard Reid.??

    “Throughout the war on terrorism, our military and intelligence officials have made a concerted effort to share appropriate information with the public in order to enlist their assistance,” Ashcroft said. “We’ve asked citizens to be vigilant, to be alert to any possible threat. The success of this strategy was made clear by yesterday’s indictment of Richard Reid, who may very well have succeeded in destroying American Airlines Flight Number 63, as the indictment charges, had it not been for the courage and attentiveness of the citizen passengers and crew.”??

    The same article details the same type of jargon coming out the then Homeland Security Director, Tom Ridge.

    When you try to politicize this sort of thing on an open blog, realize that your opposition can google things to counter-punch just as fast.

    –Cobra

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Stan @ #57:

    Fresno has palm trees, thongs and even (don’t tell the missus) a few babes. Three out of five ain’t bad.

    And a two hour drive will take me to the other two. Pismo’s lovely this time of year. :-)

  • STM

    “Pismo’s lovely this time of year.”

    I take that to mean Fresno’s not??

    There’s actually some good surf around San Francisco. Water can be a bit nippy though … orchestra-shrivelling stuff

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Hmm, Fresno at this time of year… When it’s not foggy it’s raining, and when it’s not raining it’s frickin’ cold because there’s no cloud cover and then we get frosts which play merry hell with the citrus crops!

    From what I’ve seen and heard the surf around San Fran is not so much good as lethal.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    And yeah, Pismo is nice. You probably wouldn’t like it because there’s no surf, but it’s a great long, sandy beach which they actually let you drive dune buggies on. At night it’s a great place to bring out your beach chairs and barbecues and have a bonfire party.

    The Central Coast (from SF down to Santa Barbara) is pretty chilly most of the year, but at least the temperature stays fairly constant, so when the interior is freezing its nuts off in December and January it can feel relatively warm. I remember going there on my first visit to the States, at Christmas 2000, and feeling very odd that I was able to walk around in a T-shirt on Boxing Day.

    That, and standing on the edge of the Pacific, 5500 miles from home, and catching the unmistakeable aroma of… fish and chips.

    Anyway, back to our discussion of terrrrizm and what may or may not be making it worse. This has been a message from our sponsors.

  • Franco

    56 – Dr Dreadful

    How… convenient.

    In what way doc?

  • pablo

    Is there anyone else besides Ruvy and myself that are not braindead on this site? I have read the bleating ad naseum dribbling out of the sheople on this thread, and quite frankly it is astounding to me. We have the typical bantering coming from the left/right paradigm about who was asleep at the wheel, and absolutely zilch when it comes to any informed opinions.

    You are being lied to, not only about this so called attack, but on a continual basis for one purpose, to train you to be sheep. It not only appears to be working, but working quite well, as evidenced by the noise.

    There has not been even one mention in any of the comments on this article and the several other articles that have thus far been written on this subject of one Kurt Haskell an attorney at law who
    was an eyewitness both to the preboarding of Umar and of the actual fire aboard flight 253. Mr Haskell who had been interviewed by the FBI and several journalists has made some astounding claims.He was sitting with his wife ten feet from the boarding gate when he saw Umar approach the gate with a sharply dressed Indian man. The Indian man told the person at the gate that Umar had NO passport, and that he needed to board the plane! Now Mr Hakell’s bonafides have been
    documented, he was an eyewitness. Please keep following with me sheople, why has not the MSM reported on it? However even more astounding to me is that not one of you so called
    politicos are even aware of this fact.

    Now you are probably aware that Umar’s dad put up yellow flags on his son, and that he was on the no fly list, yet he was able to board this aircraft apparently without even a passport. Does the
    word patsy mean anything to you folks on this site? Apparently not, you will always swallow hook
    line and sinker what you are told by the MSM, do you know why? Baaaa baaaa baaaa, your training has worked! Not only that but the hardest part about being a sheep is when you are
    confronted with it, the sheep turn nasty, of course not to their herder but to one who attempts
    to show them that they are being led down the garden path. So I am quite sure that I will as usual receive guffaws, ridicule and sarcasm from the bleating masses. Thats ok follks, I really don’t mind.

    There is rarely if ever any mention made by the sheople on this site about the unlawfulness of the no fly list particularly with respect to American citizens, that is because the training has been so effective and they have got the fear of the boogeyman into you so much that you have no problem with it. Al-ciada is alive and well, and you are the living proof! The only question that remains is just how far the sheep will bend over to take it up the behind, before they develop a spine. I suspect that it is far too late.

    Just as not one official had even a scintilla of demerit or punishment over the travesty of 9/11 inside job, I will make this public assertion as well. There will not be any reprucussions here either, which is because this poor kid is a patsy, a dupe, set up like a bowling pin.

    How many of you on this site are even aware that there was a guy video taping this poor kid the whole time? Go ahead folks surrender more of your rights up to big brother, bend over a wee bit more for your masters. Oh yeah and the sky is falling too! Just ask Chicken Little. Thank you
    for proving to me once again the old axiom no one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the american people! You deserve the government that you have PERFECTLY.

    PS I would provide supporting urls but do your own damned research and stop drinking the koolaid.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    In what way doc?

    That your cut-off point for excuses just happens to coincide with the end of an old Administration and the beginning of a new one.

  • Baronius

    “(Show Weakness to Enemies + Abuse Military and CIA) = Experience Terror Attacks”

    I don’t know that there has been an increase in the number of terror attacks, but I’m stunned that people on this thread are denying that President Obama has shown weakness to our enemies. Obnox spelled it out in three paragraphs: submissive attitude toward the Iranian leadership, weakness in the fight for Afghanistan, and treating terrorism as a legal matter. That’s weakness. He campaigned on it, saying that it would be a change from the Bush policies, and he’s followed through on it.

    There are plenty more examples of public displays of weakness. The bowing and friendly hand-shakes. Taking human rights off the table in our discussions with China. Speech after speech denouncing prior US relations with Muslim countries. Support of Chavez’s OAS during the Honduras crisis. Unilateral withdrawl of missile defense from Europe. The planned international carbon offset cash giveaway.

    I know, the bowing thing seems trivial. But it resonates with people for a reason. Obama has submissive body language when dealing with heads of state. His words are submissive; his policies are submissive. He’s arrogant toward our allies and historic friends, but he’s a doormat for our enemies. I mean seriously, partisan preferences aside, don’t you people see that?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Pablo @ #64: just a couple of observations. Haskell says a smartly-dressed man tried to get Mutallab on the plane without a passport. It’s unclear whether he actually did board without, and he apparently was in possession of a valid one. Secondly, he was not on the no-fly list, although with hindsight he probably should have been. He was on a low-priority watch list.

    I couldn’t find anything about him being videotaped the whole time, so I’m afraid you will have to provide a link to that one.

    And in my experience the default reaction of sheep to any given situation is to run away, rather than bite. Biting takes up valuable energy which could be used for eating and, well, running away.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Baronius @ #66: No, I don’t see that. But I dare say you’re as baffled by that as I am by the refusal of many to see that the Chuck Norris approach to international relations is not the only effective one.

  • Clavos

    Cobra sneers:

    Clavos writes:

    “Federal civil service is the refuge of those who aren’t able to hold a job in the real world.”

    But you claim to have worked for the US Postal Service…which makes you—

    :-)

    And that’s exactly why I didn’t stay, I got very tired of incompetent numbskulls being promoted ahead of me simply because they had more seniority.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    OA –

    Whatever you might be ready to debate does not matter. What I pointed out to you was the sheer hypocrisy of the Rabid Right when they castigate Obama for the ‘brief bomber’, yet said absolutely squat about what happened when FAR worse things happened when THEY were in charge.

    This continuous stream of sheer hypocrisy is precisely why I left the Republicans nearly twenty years ago. I cannot and will not abide hypocrisy. Yes, people are human and fallible…but when hypocrisy becomes endemic and accepted among members of any organization, and they refuse to acknowledge such hypocrisy, much less to castigate their own for it, then that is an organization to be shunned.

    And I just realized something – a lot of this is the result of Reagan’s directive that Republicans must not criticize each other…because when powerful people learn that they can do what they want and expect NO criticism from their friends…

    …OA, that’s dangerous.

  • Ruvy

    Pablo,

    The sheep do not want to know. They do not want to know that they no longer live in a democracy, they do not want to know that white elites who hide behind Obama’s black face are planning mass detentions. The sheeple here? They’ve been trained like poodles to bark nervously – but never see the trees for the forest – or the forest for the trees.

    Write a review on “Smallville Goes Naked – Lois Lane Fucks up a Storm”.

    THIS they’ll want to know about!

    Nice talking to the one non-braindead individual commenting here.

  • Franco

    58 – Cobra

    Cobra,

    Everything you say about all the so called warning signs and so called list the past administration missed about Abdulmutallab only gives support to the advance of my argument that the current administration really fucked up. This terrorist attack happened under this current administration and the buck stops with it, not the last administration.

    Why do you continue to evidence in every post you make your refusal to hold this current administration accountable for this most recent and serious slip up in departmental inefficacy?

    Why do you instead attempt to create the fallacious diversion of accusing the past administration for this recent terrorist attack, when ironically it only reaffirms the fact what this current administration should have clearly known by now, especially seeing Abdulmutallab father just blew the lid off any doubts about this guy to the CIA 30 days before this flight.

    Perhaps you will answer those two questions actually using some intellectual honesty.

    Lastly, you are the one who should be taking your own advise about not trying to politicize this sort of thing on an open blog.

  • Baronius

    Pablo, you’re saying that the preponderance of evidence of his guilt proves his innocence?

  • Baronius

    Dread, I’m not saying that we have to kill everyone who disagrees with us. But we haven’t stood our ground on anything (except the Somali pirates and the recent air strike in Yemen). With regard to Honduras and Israel, we wussed out of positions that I think were initially wrong. This administration isn’t even taking a leadership role in the UN, which I’d expect out of a leftward-leaning president.

    Just give me something to work with, some reason to think that this is more than speaking softly with no stick, or that such speech will be greeted with anything but a yawn and/or a throttling.

  • Mark

    Obama really should have been at the airport and caught this guy. What a slacker.

  • Mark

    After a phone call or two I have it on good authority that the whole affair was paid for by Victoria, who, in response to dropping numbers, needed a way to refocus attention on nether wear.

    There’s even a new line in the works with catchments for one’s explosives. Investors should think about getting their money in now.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    And here’s me thinking it was Ashton Kutcher.

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Franco writes:

    “Cobra,

    Everything you say about all the so called warning signs and so called list the past administration missed about Abdulmutallab only gives support to the advance of my argument that the current administration really fucked up. This terrorist attack happened under this current administration and the buck stops with it, not the last administration.”

    You don’t read very well, do you? Umar got his visa during the Bush Administration. Umar was on a watchlist during the Bush Administration. Umar got on a plane and flew to HOUSTON,TX LAST YEAR, during the Bush Administration.

    Umar boarded a DUTCH Airliner KLM, in Lagos, Nigeria, where the security is corrupt, and the ones that aren’t make only $2 a day.

    You, hindsight Sherlocks, Obama-haters and the unhinged right in this country can howl all you want. Your entire anti-Obama argument is premised on the fact that Umar chose the flight to DETROIT 2009 to try to set off this bomb, and not the flight to HOUSTON 2008.

    Of course the “buck stops” with the Obama Administration. Unlike the Bush Adminstration, President Obama can admit when mistakes are made, or when there are problems that need to be fixed.

    But I’ll tell you what, Franco. Why don’t we get a running “American Deaths via terror” scoreboard for the first year of Adminstrations: Bush vs. Obama.

    Tell us what that comes out to.

    –Cobra

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Cobra #78 –

    Well said. Very well said indeed….

  • Franco

    56 – Dr Dreadful
    Franco says….((“FACT: It is because of 9/11, and because of anthrax mailings, and because of the shoe bomber, and especially because of the war in Iraq, that there are now no more excuses that cut the mustard.))”

    How… convenient.

    63 – Franco
    In what way doc?

    65 – Dr Dreadful
    That your cut-off point for excuses just happens to coincide with the end of an old Administration and the beginning of a new one.

    Your missing the point entirely doc. Let’s have a closer look. My comment you refer to in your post #56 at top was a comment I directed back to Glenn (and I was intentionally using Glenn’s very words) to make a valid point that you have missed and yet ironically tried and failed to discredit.

    As clearly evidenced in Glenns post #14 he tries to use the events of 9/11, the anthrax mailings, the shoe bomber, and the war in Iraq as some how an excuse for the failings of the current administrations to act on the information they had on the recent terrorest attack on Christmas day. My point being made to Glenn then, and to you now, is that whatever the failings that may be involved in these past events with the past administration, it is not logical nor rational to try and use these past events as excuses for the failings of this administration.

    The past events instead should be, and have been, used as tools of knowable to shore up our resolve, diligence, and will to have all our agencies working together today far better then ever before – as Obama promised they would under his administration and his watch if he became president -.

    That is why I said to Glenn that …It is because of 9/11, and because of anthrax mailings, and because of the shoe bomber, and especially because of the war in Iraq, that there are now no more excuses that cut the mustard.” In other words, that focusing on the past events failings as a tool for future success is what Obama himself promised us, and here’s Glenn trying to make excuses for Obama because of these past events. It more then just ironic.

    It is also disturbing that you have not come out in any measurable form in support for holding this administration accountable to at least some measure for its failed actions in what has been clearly evidenced was information that this current administrations top security departments had fresh and in spades over 30 days before and during this most recent terrorist attack.

    It is getting embarrassing to watch those on this blog unable to hold this current administration accountable for this current terrorist attack happening on its watch when they had all the goods on this guy. It,s exactly what Cobra is trying to do in all his posts by trying to fuse the past ministration failings as the main contributing factor for this administrations failings on the terrorest attack on Christmas day, and and I call him on it in my response post #72.

    As much as Glenn, Cobra, and apparently you are unwilling to admit it, the events this Chirtmas day was a complete Obama administrations departmental failure and it had nothing to do with the past administration.

    On a positive note however at least your not trying to make excuses for it like Glenn and Cobra. Instead your just trying to discredit those who are calling them out for trying to make excuses for this administration. How… Convenient!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Franco, I’m not making excuses. This quite plainly was a fuck-up. Just as plainly, though, it was not simply an administration failure to act, but an intelligence failure. (How do you know exactly what ‘goods’ they had on the guy, BTW? Have you read his file?)

    The point is that Obnox did not make a good case for the Obama administration’s policies being what led to Mutallab being able to get on that plane wearing exploding underpants. There has not been a noticeable increase in terrorist activity against the US since Obama entered the White House. Security failures are bound to happen from time to time and trying to pin it on any president, be it Obama, Bush or Martin van bloody Buren, just makes no sense other than in the context of partisan vindictiveness. I don’t recall you, Obnox or any of the other righties rushing to slam Bush after any of the incidents Jordan reminded us of: which is why Cobra, Glenn and others who’ve been calling Obnox out on this have a very valid argument.

  • Franco

    78 – Cobra

    Your entire argument is premised on the fact that Umar chose the flight to DETROIT 2009 to try to set off this bomb, and not the flight to HOUSTON 2008.

    Not only is that not my argument, it’s your argument and it is fallacious as hell. So who is it that has trouble with reading?

    My argument has always been that if the past administration had concerns about this guy back in 2008 as you claim and he was put on a watch list, then this current administration had the same goods on him going into 2009. That is a fact you can not dispute. So if your willing the have a unhinged radical leftist shit fit and fall in the middle of it over the past administration missing this guys flight to TX, why is it that you can not do the same with this administration for exactly the same thing over exactly the same guy? And spar us the bull shit about corrupt airports because Napolitano has already said Abdulmutallab was properly screened before getting on the flight to Detroit from Amsterdam.

    But before you get started my argument did not end there. There is the little issue to deal with concerning the new and explosive info this guy’s father had just given CIA 30 days before he boards the plain to make his attack. That new intell by the father over shadows any and all info they had on this guy before November 2009 – which all came in under the current administration.

    There is nothing in the 2008 info on this guy that sends up the red flags as dose this new intel that came in un under the eyes of this new current administration. This nasty little fact is not something you can move out of the way Cobra.

    — Mongoose

  • zingzing

    you know, i think we should just start lifting up every black and arab penis to see if there are firecrackers, or anything else explosive, attached. that’ll solve the problem. obama should personally lift said dicks. check the taint. pat em on the bottom and move on to the next dark-skinned fellow.

    then, and only then, will we have a happy right wing. form a line, non-whites! let’s see your junk!

    barring that, we will continue to hear this stupid, stupid asinine fucking ridiculous hokum nonsense. just get it over with, obama. start juggling balls. touch every nutsack coming in and out of america! fuck it! fuck it! uh!

    idiots.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    you know, i think we should just start lifting up every black and arab penis to see if there are firecrackers, or anything else explosive,

    No, Jet can’t have the job. I think the job should be reserved for white right wing males who have to have worked for anyone on the Far Right or FOX News. Sean Hannity can be the team leader and Eric Cantor can do the lifting. Oops. Eric Cantor? He’d like it too much.

  • STM

    This is one of the most bizarre arguments I’ve ever seen presented on BC, and no, not because of the penis angle – which is probably a legitimate call as long as it’s applied across the board (what’s the bets there’ll be better personal hygiene among airline travellers from this point on).

    So how is there a correlation between the president and his administration and a young bloke seduced by al-Qaeda into trying to explode a bomb on board a US-bound jet?

    I have seen some fucken real doozies on here too, but this one fair-dinkum takes the cake for gross silliness.

    We know some Americans don’t like the prez or having a democrat in charge but hey, that’s democracy. I can never understand how, unlike us (even if we don’t like the result), Americans can’t accept that the people have spoken – and will use any bullshit excuse to have a go. Live with it. It’s democracy, and in case anyone’s forgotten, it’s what we’ve all been fighting for these past 100 years against some of the most hateful ideologies the world has been able to throw up at us.

    If you’re going to attack Obama, attack him for something fair-dinkum, like his so-far wishy-washy approach to government which seems to draw more on his time as a Chicago social organiser than as the man we’d like to see as a true leader of the free world (yes, even though we didn’t get to vote forn him, WE’d like him to do something too, the same as we’d like our own hot-air belching Prime Minister to actually do something).

    He made lots of promises and despite the fact he’s been grossly hamstrung early on by having to make unpopular public spending decisions because of the GFC (join the club, guys … we’re all in the same boat; the same thing happened here), he’s not really done anything much of note that would back up all the lovely hope-and-change rhetoric.

    That’s where you can give him a good smacking, but not on something this.

    It’s truly one of the most absurd things I’ve seen.

    If I were American, I wouldn’t be playing politics with this stuff. I’d just be thankful that one more idiot has been taken out of the equation without any more innocent people getting hurt.

    Perhaps the issue of terrorism is the one issue that genuinely demands a bi-partisan approach – in the interests of the country and all your friends in the world as a whole.

    Hot cock and bullshit just doesn’t cut it on this.

    And in case anyone’s in doubt as to my credentials, not being an American, when it comes to terroprism I’m speaking from some personal experience here too …

  • zingzing

    i think the right wing has a fantasy. what that fantasy is was decided during their induction into their respective frats. circle jerks all around. get off!

  • zingzing

    stm: “Perhaps the issue of terrorism is the one issue that genuinely demands a bi-partisan approach – in the interests of the country and all your friends in the world as a whole.”

    truth.

    still, the issue of the fact that bush tended to egg them on while obama tries to mollify is going to tear down the center of this country. i think bush was absolutely wrong, and stupidly doing just what they who are in control of terrorism would like to see, while obama is actually trying to make some sort of headway against an admittedly somewhat-unconvincable enemy… it’s a lose-lose situation, but only one has a non-escalating end. only one makes any sense, and until we take away the things that produce terrorism, which we cannot presently do, we’re going to have to put up with it.

    in order to do so, we have to do away with religion, despotism, capitalism, sin, vice, race and stupid, stupid rat creatures. (and maybe israel, in the end.) good luck to us. i don’t think we can do it. diplomacy is a better option.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Rush Limbaugh. Let me start the hype which is about to follow. Rush Limbaugh is rushed into a Hawaiian hospital with chest pains and declared in serious condition. GOP operatives blame Obama’s Hawaiian vacation as catalyst for Rush’s infirm condition. Sen Jim DeMint declares he will call for a Senate investigation into Limbaugh’s fall. Rep. Bachmann organizes a prayer service and calls on God to resurrect Rush the Savior of our country. Sarah Palin prepares to transition to host of her new radio talk show on EIB. Todd Palin seen leaving Rush Limbaugh’s compound shortly before Limbaugh’s aides call rescue services. C Street House drapes windows and doors in black crepe, Sen John Ensign declares inconsolable.

    God, I feel like Jeanne Dixon.

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Franco writes:

    “But before you get started my argument did not end there. There is the little issue to deal with concerning the new and explosive info this guy’s father had just given CIA 30 days before he boards the plain to make his attack. That new intell by the father over shadows any and all info they had on this guy before November 2009 – which all came in under the current administration.”

    Where is the transcript of what the father said to the US Embassy? Unitll you produce that, and corraborative evidence that the transcript was in practice enough to point Umar to the “no-fly” list with enough urgency that the security in a Lagos, Nigeria airport making less than a Walmart door greeter would not only revoke his visa, but screen him with scanning equipment sophisticated enough to detect PETN in a condom strapped near his crotch, you sound like just another right-winged, GOP shill.

    Speaking of TSA Security and Scanning Equipment…What do you think the record shows about dem’ terrah-figtin’ Republicans?

    “Over the summer, 108 House Republicans voted against the final conference report of the 2010 appropriation bill for the Department of Homeland Security, which included funding for explosives detection systems and other aviation security measures.

    The no voters cited a procedural dispute over the appropriations process. They included Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio), Hoekstra and a who’s who of big-name House Republicans: Reps. Mike Pence, Michelle Bachmann (R-Minn.), Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.), Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) and Joe Wilson (R-SC).

    The conference bill included more than $4 billion for “screening operations,” including $1.1 billion in funding for explosives detection systems, with $778 million intended for buying and installing the systems.”

    Are you KIDDING ME, Franco? Who’s taking this “woh on terrah” seriously?

    And to show I’m not a complete partisan about this, let’s look at another vote on the type of sophisticated scanning equipment that could’ve detected this guy.

    “In June, both parties overwhelmingly backed Utah Republican Rep. Jason Chaffetz, who inserted an amendment into the House’s massive Homeland Security appropriations bill barring the use of full-body image scans as “primary” screening tools at airports.

    The amendment, which died in the Senate, passed the House on a bipartisan 310 to 118 vote, with conservative libertarians joining liberals, all decrying the scans as a major invasion of privacy.

    It would also have given passengers the option of getting a pat-down ” which might have also detected the Christmas bomb ” while banning the storage and copying of the images, which show a virtual picture of a person’s naked body.”

    Now, if you want a debate about the 4th Amendment and passenger screening technology at Airports, I’m all ears, and it’s a debate that SHOULD be had.

    If you’re going to continue to try to use this failed terrorist attempt as another Obama-bashing tantrum ala Rove/Cheney/HateRadio/FoxNews, you will lose miserably to people like me who can easily dismiss your arguments with the factual record.

    –Cobra

  • Franco

    81 – Dr Dreadful

    Franco, I’m not making excuses. This quite plainly was a fuck-up.

    I agree.

    Just as plainly, though, it was not simply an administration failure to act, but an intelligence failure.

    I agree to the point that our intelligence community is supose to stand on its own two feet, and they did not do so on this account. And the fact remains that the current intelligence community departments are all headed by those individuals that this administration personally chose to put in charge on the promise that they would be working closer and more proficiently under his administration then what had occurred under any pervious administration. And what other administration could he have possibly been referring too?

    (How do you know exactly what ‘goods’ they had on the guy, BTW? Have you read his file?)

    Not sure what you saying there. The full depth of this information is a story that is still developing as we speak. The only goods I have access to are the same you have from what I read in the states and across the pond and some mid-Eastern sights. It has been Cobra who has been making claims of the US having the goods on him back in 2008 that he faults the past administration for not stopping his fligtht into TX back then. It’s a bogus claim because there was nothing on him in 2008 that caused the UK or the US to red flag him from flights. Both countries have already admitted that yesterday, yet Cobra ironically keeps drowning his own arguments trying to push it as his premise against Bush. I have thrown him a life line more then once, but his is hell bent on going under.

    The point is that Obnox did not make a good case for the Obama administration’s policies being what led to Mutallab being able to get on that plane wearing exploding underpants.

    I read the article and I understand your point, but my assertion, which has been clear from the start, was never based on Obnoxs over all premise. I only specifically addressed those who have been trying to use the past administration so called failures as a scapegoat excuse for this administration fucking up this Christmas day hairs breath with major catastrophy.

    There has not been a noticeable increase in terrorist activity against the US since Obama entered the White House.

    Nor has there been a noticeable decrease in terrorist activity against the US since Obama enter the White House.

    Security failures are bound to happen from time to time and trying to pin it on any president, be it Obama, Bush or Martin van bloody Buren, just makes no sense other than in the context of partisan vindictiveness.

    I agree. And as I said before, we should be using amy past failures at tools to fixing them instead of using them as scapegoate excuses as they are being used in this thread by some.

    I don’t recall you, Obnox or any of the other righties rushing to slam Bush after any of the incidents Jordan reminded us of: which is why Cobra, Glenn and others who’ve been calling Obnox out on this have a very valid argument.

    That statement is a oxymoron. Because if what you say is true, then your claiming “the pot calling the kettle black” by your side of the political spectrum is a relational argument, while calming the other side making the same argumenht is not.

    Really doc, I have come to expect more out of you then that.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “I know, the bowing thing seems trivial.”

    Because it is. Who exactly bowed to who before the barracks bombing in Lebanon, before the Berlin disco bombing, before 9/11? It is rather tiresome to continually hear the greatly uninformed speaking on behalf of the terrorists and what emboldens them. Our enemies are going to find a reason to attack whether the President says something is red or blue.

    What’s real weakness is the constant distraction and bickering over nothing. The people voted and your team lost because voters wanted a different tactic in a number of areas, so buck up and quit your bitching until the next campaign starts.

    Or are you so scared that if you give it a chance it might work and you’ll have to reevaluate what you think is right?

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    so the choices are “brain dead” or the Pablo/Ruvy team? Tough call. Let me stew on it for a bit, but I am thinking about pitching you two in a reality show. Season 1 you go in search of Obama’s birth certificate.

  • zingzing

    franco: “And the fact remains that the current intelligence community departments are all headed by those individuals that this administration personally chose”

    except the acting administrator of the tsa, who was appointed by… who?… which someone pointed out to you earlier… which you continue to ignore… why is that? who do you think is actually “responsible” for this mess? what the fuck do you think you’re trying to pull?

    laughable. i’d laugh, except i might creep myself out a bit. oh, hell. yep. creeped myself out. a bit.

    rip roland s. howard.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Politics makes strange bedfellows. Lately, it’s been Pablo, Ruvy and Nalle team. Who would have believed?

  • zingzing

    ruvy and pablo: the adventure.

    pablo: accepted history is a lie.
    ruvy: i only deal in prophecy. and the jews.
    pablo: the jews never existed.
    ruvy: surely, you jest.
    pablo: if it’s history, it’s a lie.
    ruvy: but, the jews…
    pablo: lies.
    ruvy: well, as i said, all i ever talk about is the jews.
    pablo: and prophecy.
    ruvy: jewish prophecy.
    pablo: i believe in the future.
    ruvy: so do i.
    pablo: i love you.
    ruvy: i cannot accept love from a goyem.
    pablo: i don’t believe in goyem.
    ruvy: i don’t either, particularly.
    pablo: then we agree.
    ruvy: i can’t do that either.
    pablo: neither can i.
    ruvy: then we are in agreement.
    pablo: in that you are crap and i am as well?
    ruvy: never.
    pablo: exactly.
    ruvy: the jews…
    pablo: no.
    ruvy: no what?
    pablo: no no.
    ruvy: we’ll see about that.
    pablo: when?
    ruvy: when the prophecies come true.
    pablo: when will that be?
    ruvy: it is happening right now.
    pablo: i don’t believe that the nwo will let that happen.
    ruvy: you’re so negative.
    pablo: i don’t believe that either.
    ruvy: trust me.
    pablo: i can’t trust you.
    ruvy: why not?
    pablo: i trust no one.
    ruvy: good idea. they all want to kill you.
    pablo: i am stumped.
    ruvy: i know.
    pablo: no, you don’t. you think you do, but you don’t. i know.
    ruvy: know what?
    pablo: everything you don’t.
    ruvy: but i know everything you don’t.
    pablo: you think you do.
    ruvy: so do you.
    pablo: punishment… reward!
    ruvy: i know, i know.
    pablo: no, you don’t.
    ruvy: don’t start.
    pablo: ok. last word.
    ruvy: last word.
    pablo: word.
    ruvy: word.
    pablo: word!
    ruvy: WORD!
    etc, etc.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    I’ve always liked strange bed fellows. Happy New Year, Roger. Sto Lat!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I honestly don’t know whose world is stranger – Pablo’s, Ruvy’s or zing’s.

  • http://www.thecobraslair.com Cobra

    Franco writes:

    “It has been Cobra who has been making claims of the US having the goods on him back in 2008 that he faults the past administration for not stopping his fligtht into TX back then. It’s a bogus claim because there was nothing on him in 2008 that caused the UK or the US to red flag him from flights. Both countries have already admitted that yesterday, yet Cobra ironically keeps drowning his own arguments trying to push it as his premise against Bush. I have thrown him a life line more then once, but his is hell bent on going under.”

    Not at all. Your holding Obama personally responsible for Mutallab traveling to America by plane while his name appeared on a watchlist.
    I cited evidence that Mutallab also traveled to America by plane in 2008 while his name appeared on a watchlist during the Bush Administration.

    Same bad guy. Same method of transportation. Same watchlist. You indict Obama but have no comment on Bush. You also had no response when several posters point out the SAME method of attack was used by Robert Reid, the shoe bomber in 2001, or the Republicans voting against airport security funding in 2009.

    Sheer partisan hackery.

    You haven’t seen me make excuses for Obama’s Administration, because President Obama hasn’t made any excuses for himself. Again, unlike BUSH–who waited SIX WHOLE DAYS before responding to the shoe-bomber, Obama admits that there were mistakes made that allowed this to happen, and wants to review, correct and implement changes.

    –Cobra

  • zingzing

    doc–mine is certainly strange, but at least i don’t mistake it for reality.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Happy New Year, Silas. And yes, Sto Lat!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Why Sto Lat as opposed to Sto Helit?

    :-)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    So is it a marriage made in heaven, zing?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Now, transliterate their dialog into Yiddish and you’ve got something.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    What is “Sto Helit”? I’m rusty.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    zing, great start but I believe it ends with ruvy nuking pablo, who, as the wave of destruction approaches, posits who was really behind ruvy’s actions

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Rog, I’m guessing you haven’t read Pratchett, or that it was a while ago if you have!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Don’t tell me. CFR.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I only specifically addressed those who have been trying to use the past administration so called failures as a scapegoat excuse for this administration fucking up this Christmas day hairs breath with major catastrophy.

    Franco, you first entered the fray in response to Glenn, who far from making excuses was quite reasonably asking Obnox why this incident was Obama’s fault while those which happened during the last Administration weren’t Bush’s.

    At what exact point did the standard change?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I got you now. I haven’t read any of the Discworld series.

  • STM

    EB: “Season 1 you go in search of Obama’s birth certificate.”

    Lol.

    And watch as some struggle to work out what Honolulu is the capital of, and why it still has a Union Jack in the corner of its state flag (bet Pablo puts that down to the shadowy Council on Foreign Relations) and somehow links it to Obama’s Kenyan/British dad.

    For watching dunderheads, that’d be even better TV than The Amazing Race.

  • Franco

    89 – Cobra

    Franco writes: ((“But before you get started my argument did not end there. There is the little issue to deal with concerning the new and explosive info this guy’s father had just given CIA 30 days before he boards the plain to make his attack. That new intell by the father over shadows any and all info they had on this guy before November 2009 – which all came in under the current administration.”))

    Where is the transcript of what the father said to the US Embassy? Unitll you produce that, and corraborative evidence that the transcript was in practice enough to point Umar to the “no-fly”

    The president, in his most extensive comments so far on what went wrong in the security process, said information about the terror suspect was not properly shared among agencies. He said that information, particularly a warning to authorities from the 23-year-old suspect’s father in Nigeria, should have landed him on a no-fly list well before he boarded the Northwest Airlines flight in Amsterdam.

    “The warning signs would have triggered red flags and the suspect would have never been allowed to board that plane for America,” President Obama on national TV.

    Is that official enough for ya snake?

    You keep trying to move the argument onto something else. Now my argument has always been that if the past administration had concerns about this guy back in 2008 as you claim and he was put on a watch list, then this current administration would have had the same goods on him going into 2009. That is a fact you can not dispute.

    So if your willing to criticize the past administration for missing this guys flight to TX, why is it that you can not do the same with this administration for exactly the same thing over exactly the same guy with his flight to Detroit?

    If you’re going to continue to try to use this failed terrorist attempt as another Obama-bashing tantrum ala Rove/Cheney/HateRadio/FoxNews, you will lose miserably to people like me who can easily dismiss your arguments with the factual record.

    OK, maybe were are getting some where. Please show us the factual records to support your claims that the past administration is the real fuck up because the US had him on a watch list last year in 2008 when he flew to TX.

    You can throw that in with your response to what the President has now stated that officially confirms what I asserted that you challenged me on at the top of your post #89.

    — Mongoose

  • STM

    Provided, of course, Franco is in the mix too.

  • STM

    My favourite episode: “No wriggle room”.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    The really funny thing is, Stan, is that while Ruvy accuses us all of being more interested in the latest episode of Big Brother than in politics, he forgets that (a) it’s the Politics section, and (b) most of the regulars don’t remotely strike one as being reality TV junkies.

    LOL.

  • Ruvy

    Even the braindead can be voluble. Actually, according to one author (a Jewish one, by the way), the more moribund someone is, the more noise he makes. That applies to zing zing especially, who ought to be in Sing Sing for his pathetic attempts at parody. It takes real sisu to post something so bad, zingster. You should be hiding behind your sisu shirt, not displaying your awful (not awesome) sense of humor…. Or better yet, go hoist the bottle of Finlandia Vodka for a few and watch “A Clockwork Orange”.

    Braindead, the lot of you…. What has happened to the politics commenters here? Have you all taken leave of your senses? Or do you all have some serious hallucinogenic in your narghilas?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    zing –

    That’s pretty funny. Remind me not to tick you off….

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Braindead, the lot of you…

    Ruvy, your proposition does rather hinge on there being some dastardly and overarching machination of the CFR behind everything, to which hypothesis most of us have given due consideration and, in the absence of any robust supporting evidence whatsoever, have concluded to be absolute, total and utter bollocks.

  • STM

    Episode 2: “Ruvy’s attempt to understand global politics from a non-Jewish perspective”.

    Episode 3: “Franco decides to look up some facts in a book instead of some right-wing sites on the internet”.

    Episode 4: “Pablo takes a course designed to cure people of conspiracy theories, but decides it’s a set-up and the course is linked to Cecil Rhodes, the CFR and the Rothschilds”.

    Episode 5: “Cracks appear as Ruvy and Pablo argue about the Rothschilds and their influence on global politics, while Franco looks them up on the internet to see who they are”.

    Episode 6: “Busted. Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate exposed as fraud”, since it is the same shap as and bears same names as South Australian registrars and carries official Republic of Kenya stamp dated 1964, even though Kenya didn’t become a republic until 1965.

    Episode 7: “No wriggle room” … Ruvy, Pablo and Franco attempt to uphold birther theory despite all sensible available evidence to the contrary. Franco comes up with some “facts” from internet to support flimsy case.

  • pablo

    Dread 67

    Ok I will do your work for you.

    Man films Umar during the entire flight

    You miss my point Dread about the smartly dressed man saying Umar had no passport. My point is the dereliction of the entire MSM in reporting this incident, however it is not really dereliction, the MSM is complicit in the whole phony war on terrorism, and this only goes to illustrate that fact. Unfortunately most of the sheople on this site are far too brain dead to awaken from their slumber and see the MSM for what it is. The Haskell report is vitally important, yet ignored, just like most of the folks on this site continue to ignore the fact that they are being trained to obey, and to consider themselves as inferior and serfs to their masters.

  • STM

    Episode 8 (final for 1st season): “Ruvy finds tenuous references to all issues raised on BC politics in the Torah and links them to the coming Armageddon”. Pablo thinks the CFR is behind it, and Franco looks it up on the internet. All three plead with us to see things from their perspective, and we all try … but none of us can get our heads that far up our own blurters.

  • Ruvy

    Stan, your attempts at parody, are also pathetic – and stale.

  • STM

    Aw, C’mon Ruve … just having a bit of fun at your expense :)

  • STM

    Not like you to lose your sense of humour!

  • Ruvy

    The issue here is not that some incompetent white elitist from the “democratic” wing of the Republocrat party can’t govern. The issue here is that your security is being purposely compromised so that a national emergency can be declared and your rights in the States formally abrogated.

    If you Americans are too stupid to see that, you deserve a dictatorship, detention camps and all the other shit coming your way. And from the comments I see here, you Americans are indeed to stupid to see that.

    Happy New Year!

  • STM

    Happy New Year Ruve.

    Have a good one. I’m off home for a quiet one. Its nearly 8pm here and every man and his dog plus all the lunatics are crowding into the city to pack the harbour foreshores for the fireworks.

    I want to be well away from that.

    Hopefull I can negotiate some circuitous back route out of town

    Cheers

  • Ruvy

    Your “new year” is not a holiday here. At least not in J-lem. The year started in the autumn – at rosh hashaná. My younger kid is going to go out drinking tonight (or something) with his mates because one of them has 31 December off from the army, and that is important for these kids. They never know when they’ll see each other again, and the army seriously interferes with the mateship that they’ve had since they were 12 or so. But he doesn’t get seriously drunk. One of the kids he hangs with has a very low alcohol tolerance, and half the fun of going out with him is watching out for him. They call it shmirá ‘al ha’ófer watching out for the young deer (that’s what the boy’s name means in English – young deer).

    Well, my son hasn’t gotten into trouble – so far. I’ll keep my fingers crossed….

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    A number of posts here were indeed hilarious – a truly good ending. Perhaps it should remind us not to take politics too seriously or too personally. There are bigger and greater things.

    Happy New Year, everybody. And you too, Ruvy.

  • pablo

    I just want to reiterate my previous comment. With the possible exception of Dread, not one of you others were even aware of Kurt Haskell and what he had to say as an eyewitness to this event, which just goes to show two things. Number one is that you are receiving your information from the wrong sources, and number two the MSM is making a conscious decision to withhold vital information from the American people about this incident. Then we have Patricia Keepman who also was onboard the flight who claims that a man was filming the alleged terrorist during the whole flight! Now I ask you that have flown before, how many of you have ever seen someone doing that onboard a commercial aircraft in the last ten years? I personally have flown commercially both domestically and internationally well over 150 times, and I have NEVER seen such an event.

    You folks just don’t get it. YOU are being lied to on an ongoing basis, and when they are not lying to you they are omitting vital information so that your brainwashing will continue.

    I fortunately derive my news sources from a variety of online websites. I also usually assume when I see, read, or hear something from a MSM source until I know otherwise, that I am being lied to or misled at the very least.

    For this particular story I got this information that most of you were totally ignorant about from infowars.com. Alex Jones did an excellent interview with Mr. Haskell on his show yesterday. Of course not a peep out of the MSM. Incidentally there was a second man who was taken away in handcuffs and arrested off of the plane. I wonder how many of you know that! I suspect zilch.

    Zing and STM, feel free to keep up your silliness, as you only show your own fear and ignorance about what is happening in the world today. However regarding this incident the fact remains you are both woefully ignorant of the above reports on this incident. Try changing channels. I suspect Zing gets her news either from the Huff huff huffington post or even perhaps The DailyKos a known CIA site to those of us that are informed.

    This poor kid was a patsy, and another in a long list of false flag terrorist incidents. Most of you are probably woefully ignorant as well in the days before this incident occured there were several MSM articles about US troop buildup in Yemen. Surprise surprise. Lick those polished MSM boots, they need more polishing.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I must say, Pablo, that you do have a messianic instinct, which makes you and Ruvy so compatible. While he’s is all about “God conspiracy,” you speak of human conspiracy. It’s all the same to me.

    Personally, I think you’d be much more effective addressing individual people rather than the entire group. You may believe we’re all alike, but let me assure you: each person here is a distinct individual and not everybody thinks alike. And that goes for both ends of the political spectrum.

    It’s precisely this preaching tone which characterizes some of your comments which make you and Ruvy so much alike. If I were you, I’d rethink my strategy.

    Happy New Year to you.

  • pablo

    Roger,

    Your probably right, my tactics suck. Then again I don’t have an agenda, I just like stirring shit up. I do know that you are an individual, and imho one of the few people on this site that I actually respect to a degree.

    I do tend to preach and I am arrogant, however that does not make my take on things incorrect. Arrogance is not a particularly attractive trait, that being said it comes with the territory, my territory of studying politics for close to 30 years. When I see the typical left/right bullshit over and over and over again about who is to blame etc, I address the groupthink. I perouse numberous forums, and I must say that this particular one has some of the most braindead, closed minded, and uniformed commenters that I have ever come across. You Roger are one of the very few that does attempt to humanize and civilize this website, and it has not been overlooked by me.

    I quite frankly could give a shit, if I am liked on here, my social life is not on the internet, I just like saying what I want to say, so I do. The fact is Roger most people are brainwashed/conditioned, it is a fact of life, which I might add that the ruling elite use to their advantage every chance that they get. To even have a scintilla of a chance of not being brainwashed the first thing that a person needs to do is see it, which is also the hardest part of the process in opening up one’s mind.

    I believe that this is the first time that you have addressed me in about a year Roger. I am still hoping that you will take a look at, and give me some feedback on David Livingstone’s online book Terrorism/Illuminati A Three Thousand Year Tradition. That is because believe it or not I value your opinion to a degree, and would very much like to hear your take on it.

    Ruvy is a Jew, and I am a German, yet we are both wise enough and well read enough and clever enough to know what is going on. This New World Order which you seem to think is inevitable is one run by monsters, who quite frankly make Adolph look like a boy scout. They are sinister, ruthless, murderous, and are on the verge of seizing the whole fucking world. When and if that happens there is going to be a genocide not of 6 million but several billion souls. It is being run by the Rockefellers, the founders of Eugenics, the Rothchilds, and their underlings, former SS Prince Bernhardt of the Netherlands, Dr. Kissassinger, and the rest of the Bilderbergs. There is also Roger a very real underground Reich that has been around since Martin Bormann escaped to Argentina, which unfortunately included importing over 4000 former Nazis into the USA under Operation Paperclip. If you would like more information on this underground Reich, check out Dave Emory, an anti fascist researcher of some 30 years of whom I have been listening to for over 25 of those years. He has a vast amount of free online radio shows on his website going back over ten years.

    To be here on this site reading the constant inane bantering of left/right bush/obama bullshit gets to be a bit much for me, hence I tend to lash out with my sarcasm. There is no left right anymore, they have all been absorbed by the Borg. I view a Newt Gingrich or a Nancy Pelosi as the same, with the exception that a Nancy Pelosi is a wolf in sheeps clothing, while Newt is just a prick.

    I am not a messiah, I am just an old hippie that realized decades ago that fascists were in charge, and the nature of government unlike nature is to love a vacuum.

  • STM

    Pablo: “Zing and STM, feel free to keep up your silliness”.

    Lighten up Pab … I can’t speak for zing, but if I didn’t loveyouse all, I wouldn’t even bother.

    Happy New Year – yes, it’s al;ready 2010 Down Under (well, not quite in South Australia or Western Australia, yet, or even in Queensland, where the silly buggers don’t have daylight saving.My mother in law’s great quote: “Extra hour of daylight? We need less sun up here, not more”)

  • STM

    Actually, by the time I posted, it is 2010 in Queensland :)

  • STM

    Happy New Year to you too, Rog, if you’re still about. Have a good one mate!

  • pablo

    Oh and Happy New Year to you too Roger. :)

  • pablo

    Oh and Dread comment 67

    Quote from Reuters Africa with url:

    The military police have already said Abdulmutallab did not go through passport control at Schiphol when he arrived from Lagos

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Thanks Stan, and Pablo.

    BTW, Pablo, I do appreciate the extensive response and please know that I tried to be constructive, not critical.

    I will make it a point, man, to look at your sources. The reason I didn’t was two-fold. First, I’m still very engaged by issues raised by the postmodernist thinkers. And secondly, while I don’t deny that conspiracies exist and will continue plague our political scene for ages to come, I’m still of the opinion that that mode of thought doesn’t offer a complete and totally satisfactory explanation. The world, as I see it, is much more complex than that, to attribute all events to doings and designs of evil men. In fact, I’m willing to grant that a great deal of undesirable effects and human misery is precisely the result of well-intentioned humans. That’s what I mean by unintended consequences. Humans aren’t simply that smart to be able to engineer horrendous plans, again IMHO, and bring them to (un)happy conclusion. And if the world were that simple, so would be a whole array of solutions. It is for that reason, mainly, that I’ve been focusing of late on more or less hidden mechanisms of power (and dominance), in the tradition of Michel Foucault, Jean-Pierre Lyotard, and the crop of postmodernist thinkers.

    Again, I’m not saying that human agency doesn’t make a difference, only that in my view that difference is greatly exaggerated. In my view, history moves on its own as it were, and although to some extent we humans do contribute somewhat to shaping our future, in great many ways we also respond to the events which are constantly unfolding and and ourselves shaped thereby.

    I will look at your sources, I promise, and let’s all hope for a better future in years to come.

  • STM

    You know what??

    It wouldn’t anywhere near the fun on here that it is we were all agreeing with each other.

    In fact, it’d be as boring as bat shit.

    That’s the beauty of it.

  • STM

    I’m waiting for my daughter and her friends to get home at the local train station so I can pick them up after they went into the city to watch the NYE fireworks.

    They’re nearly 15, so I trusted them … they were supposed to be home at 1am.

    It’s now 2am and they’re only half way home

    The question: should I give her a bollocking in front of her friends, who are staying over??

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I wouldn’t embarrass here. Talk to her later.

  • Cannonshop

    17: Was 9/11 a result of Bush not paying attention to possible external threats?

    Hell Yes, it Was, but the attack was prepped and planned during the previous administration, including the placement of the players that carried it out (that’s Bill Clinton’s administration, in case you’re fuzzy on that).

    One sign of a lack of intelligent thought, is the inability to learn from the mistakes of others-repeating someone’s recent, catastrophic fuck-up is, to put it mildly, a great example of ‘subject stupid’ or failure to learn.

    Knowledge is information, Intelligence is the ability to USE information.

    Stupidity is why the bomber got on the plane, because the agency ignored the data, stupidity is why the bomber screwed up and those people lived. Stupidity in the aftermath would be failing to learn the repeat of the original lesson-that information must flow between agencies and letting dangerous people with Al-Qaeda ties onto commercial planes is a bad, bad, idea.

    It’s like the refresher course for the new guy in the White House-we’ll have to see if he learns anything from the experience, or if a few thousand folks have to die in flames and smoke before he ‘gets a clue’.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    “The military police have already said Abdulmutallab did not go through passport control at Schiphol when he arrived from Lagos”

    Well, I know that not all countries have the same policy (the US, for example), but in most cases if he was transferring to another international flight he wouldn’t need to go through passport control.

    Here’s the difference, though, Pablo, in the way we look at things. You tend to look at an unusual incident (like someone videoing a person on a plane, or asking if his friend could board a plane without a passport) and conclude that it’s an indication of an orchestrated plot by the NWO. I look at them and make no such conclusion, because I feel that there are a number of possible explanations – yes, including yours, but I don’t assume that yours is the best candidate.

    The problem with your line of reasoning is that there’s no place to draw a line. You claim that we’re being psychologically manipulated by the NWO because we give credence to MSM news. You say you know what is really going on because you glean your information from a number of ‘backstreet’ websites. But… how do you know that information isn’t being fed to you as well (for whatever nefarious reason) and that you’re also someone’s dupe? Come to that, how do I know that everything I’ve been taught about critical thinking and logic hasn’t also been fed to me for the NWO’s convenience? See what I’m saying?

    There’s no way to disprove any of this, so we’re left with what we can verify. All I’ll say is that you’re relying here on eyewitness reports, which are demonstrably unreliable, even when more than one person gives the same account. What’s more, your sources are local newspapers which, I would point out, are for the most part owned by the same large corporations which run the MSM. (And actually your last source is Reuters, and if that isn’t a MSM outlet I don’t know what is!)

    I think it’s appropriate to conclude with one of Mark’s favourite sayings: YMMV. :-)

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “The issue here is that your security is being purposely compromised so that a national emergency can be declared and your rights in the States formally abrogated.”

    so the great fascist takeover can be traced to… firecrackers in the undies…

    maybe the ruvy and pablo hour actually could work. although they’d probably disagree on who stuffed said undies. that’s where the drama would come in. who is it, really, who has their hands in the proverbial pie? hrm. that doesn’t really work.

    and ruvy, i’ll admit the parody was rather broad (or maybe too specifically targeting one sticking point of your individual crazy spots) and i didn’t really (even attempt to) nail your voices. but to detail the depths of the insanity and to really portray you two as you really speak would mean my comment would have filled the page. if i could actually do it justice, i would not only be a genius, i’d actually be writing the damn thing, because it’s just too good.

    but i obviously touched you somewhere you didn’t like being touched. so i did a duty of sorts.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I do agree with you on one thing, zing. To accurately capture insanity would indeed be a mark of genius. And if you could do such a thing, you could well be a bestseller.

    For everyone’s information, this is a comment on a comment. It’s no reflection on the truth or falsity of the original remark.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    How do you know you aren’t being lied to, Pablo? Why would these all-powerful organizations control the major media outlets let all this information get through? Wouldn’t it be easier to control a smaller group of people by feeding their beliefs through channels they trust and turning them into patsies?

    And maybe those forces are at work here? Doc only gave Jordan credit for pointing out the terrorists the now-vanished OA overlooked, and you singled out zing and STM for their silliness when the TV show was my idea. Are you two in cahoots against me?

  • Sherlock Holmes

    El Butcho: Well we shouldn’t discount the diplomatic option here. If we could just sit down and talk it out with the terrorists we might make some serious headway.

  • STM

    Yeah, that’s right. We could just wave flowers at ‘em as well.

    Or handbags. They love YSL.

    The latest al-Qaeda fashion is to get a Burberry coat, rip out the lining and wrap that around your head (instead of a teatowel) for when you’re going out for a big night out.

  • Heloise

    Just as I predicted. That nigerian muslim rat had carte blanche visa. He could come and go as he frickin pleased for 2 years. WTF is going on w/ our visa system. When I went to the punjab I got a 2 week visa. Period.

    But we are just giving students 2 year visas? I hope he fries.

  • STM

    Especially since the British refused him a student visa for giving a non-existent learning institution.

    Perhaps the two countries should share more of this info.

    If they already do, and it still wasn’t picked up … big problem.

    Not a political one, though, despite what you read here. A failure of intelligence, and it won’t be the last time.

  • Franco

    118 – STM

    Episode 3: “Franco decides to look up some facts in a book instead of some right-wing sites on the internet”.

    STM, you have an open and honest invitation to address and challenge any information and premise I put forth, based on that information and its premise. The lines are open to you.

    What you do not have is an invitation for (1) trying to put other words in my mouth, or (2) ad hominem attacks (argument against the man, arguments against the person) instead of what is being asserted.

    The former is wholesome and may just get us somewhere positive and meaningful, the latter is unwholesome, evidences the premise can not be challenged based on its merits, and a waist of precious time.

    The ball is now in your court and I stand ready to respond to your next shot.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    #141 is very well put by Dr. D. and that’s all I have to say on the subject.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    @ #148:

    Stan brings up a good point: the Brits thought he smelled iffy but the Americans didn’t.

    Remember that Britain has a lot more experience of combatting terrorism – for the most part terrorism by people who look like us. So we’ve become pretty damn good at it.

    A lot is made of the profiling argument: and while advocates of profiling do have a point, it’s still a reactive tactic.

    The immediate response of al-Qaeda and their associated idiots, of course, would be to start trying to recruit people who don’t look Middle Eastern or African and who don’t have Muslim-sounding names…

  • STM

    Franco: “The ball is now in your court and I stand ready to respond to your next shot.”

    Whoe there! Come on Franco – lighten up a tad mate … it’s just a rev-up (and yes, I agree it’s at your expense) and nothing more than a bit of fun expanding on EB’s hilarious idea for a reality television show featuring a BC clique that tends to, shall we say, take an opposite viewpoint.

    But as I explained to Pab, if I didn’t love youse all on here, and your opposite viewpoints, I wouldn’t even bother. That applies to you too.

    Definitely NOT to be taken seriously, mate. You can see from the tone of the posts if you read between the lines that it was a bit of fun. Nothing more.

    So Happy New Year to you and yours, Franco, and all the best for 2010 and I’m definitely not going to take a shot at you!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Gosh, STM. I was hoping for another slugfest.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    BTW, you did make up with your fifteen-year old?

  • pablo

    FBI caught lying four different times about this incident. I know, I know they have been lying to protect us. It gives me that warm snuggly feeling of my big brother watching out for me.

    FBI caught lying four times

    I know the boot lickers will come back with some lame response. Bring it on.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    What else is new, Pablo? Everyone is trying to cover their ass and smell good once the dust settles.

  • pablo

    What is new Roger is this guy Kurt Haskell, is standing by his guns so to speak, and refuses to be intimidated either by the MSM or the FBI. I like that kind of guy. And if what he says is true, it casts serious doubt on the official story.

    There is a long litany of patsys in the secret governments sordid past. From Oswald, a former FBI informant, and CIA operative, to Sirhan Sirhan, to Tim Mcveigh. Incidentally both Sirhan and McVeigh had the same MK Ultra doctor working on their brains. Surprise surprise.

    I also find it mildly amusing that the official no fly gestapo list has over 1,000,000 names on it, however Umar was on a secondary list! Sure he was. Lets assume for the sake of amusement that the secondary list has ten times more folks on it. Now the list is over 10,000,000 souls!

    The fact is that the government uses fear like this to perpetuate its police state takeover of our country and indeed the world. If only the unsuspecting sheep knew who to really fear and resist! Unfortunately their eyes are turned the other way, which is exactly what the ruling elite wants, and works quite well for the most part.

    I always found particularly funny is those that still believe the 9/11 official myth, those that say OUR government would NEVER do that to US, that is sacrifice and murder over 3000 of its own citizens. Hmmmm I wonder what they are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan for their agenda. Letting Americans get blown away and maimed, in addition to murdering over a million brown skinned human beings. And the beat goes on and on and on……

    I was thinking of posting for Nalle’s sake a recent website that I cam across listing in great detail all of the atrocities that the CIA has committed in the last 50 years, but why beat a dead horse, or dead elephant as it were. After all its a family tradition.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Well, yeah, it’s good he’s sticking by his story. But don’t expect this attitude to spread. The American public has a long history of being the most apathetic. We’ve been trained to regard consumer goods as our modern day idol, and as long there’s still money to be spent, I don’t expect that too change. May the devil take the rest.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I also find it mildly amusing that the official no fly gestapo list has over 1,000,000 names on it

    Pablo, I don’t know where you picked up this old chestnut, but if there were a million people on the no-fly list planes would be empty.

    Even the ACLU only puts the number at ‘tens of thousands’, which is a couple of orders of magnitude lower than your figure. So I’m not as astonished as you are that Abdulmutallab didn’t make the cut.

    I do agree that maintaining such a list isn’t the most effective way to combat terrorism, due to its rigidity, and that there are no doubt plenty of people on the list who shouldn’t be – Nelson Mandela, for instance, who was on it for no other reason that that he was a member of the ANC, which was listed as a terrorist organization by a government which the US recognised.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    And I’m betting that the truth is somewhere in between Mr Haskell’s and Mr Smith’s versions.

    This is a good illustration, though, of what I don’t get about Pablo’s world.

    There is supposed to be a vast clandestine organisation which controls the world, has created a grand illusion which it uses to conceal its true purpose, and has stage-managed most of the major news events of recent times as part of that illusion.

    Somehow it manages all that, yet is so incompetent that it can’t even get its story straight about who got arrested off Flight 253.

    How?…?

  • STM

    Roger: I let it go. There were two million people in the city that night watching the fireworks.

    Getting a train was a nightmare, apparently, she had to queue for an hour and a half just to get from where she was on the foreshore to the railway station up the hill. Then she had to get a train.

    That’s why I never go and watch them now. It’s such a shitfight.

    Even driving home work that night, I couldn’t go over the Harbour Bridge because it’s closed for the foireworks and all the road closures made it difficult to get into the harbour tunnel so I headed west instead, and took the circuitous route which was about an hour’s drive.

    That’s a grown up with a car at 8.30pm, so if you’re there after midnight it’s really bad.

    At least she made an effort and let me know where she was, which in reality is all I ask of her.

    Thanks for asking mate!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    STM, it sounds like driving through New York City. I wouldn’t put up with it anymore. Even San Francisco traffic was getting to be a nightmare.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    It’s the same deal in London at New Year.

    Even though the city fathers deliberately don’t put on big events like firework displays (with the exception of the Millennium), people still congregate in huge numbers around Trafalgar Square and Westminster. And getting home after Big Ben bongs can be the same sort of epic trek your daughter had.

    The problem is that London’s public transport, apart from the night buses, shuts down at 1 a.m., so if where you’re going isn’t on a tube line (the tubes run all night at New Year and offer free travel) you’re pretty much stuffed.

    The one time we went ‘up to town’ for the occasion it was an hour’s wait for the night bus, whose driver proceeded to drive half the route before pulling a favourite London Buses stunt – terminating the service short of the advertised destination, ignoring everyone’s protests and threatening to call the Old Bill if we didn’t get the fuck off his bus. So we then had to wait another hour for the next bus, in orchestra-shrivelling cold. Three hours to go about ten miles, by the time we got to my brother’s in the southern suburbs.

    Never again…

  • pablo

    The American Idiot

    Nuff said.

  • STM

    Well, Doc, at least we don’t have the orchestra-shrivelling cold on NYE and they did put on extra trains, buses and ferries for the night, which then ran all night right through to about 5am, when the regular day services begin.

    Roger: after living in Sydney, last time I was in San Francisco, I found the peak-hour traffic pretty damn good by comparison – which gives you an idea of how bad Sydney is because one of my mates is from SF and he still complains about it when he goes back to see his mum (he doesn’t travel in peak-hour here … walks to work).

    For instance, in Sydney I would never drive to the airport in peak-hour traffic or for any airline departure up to about midday. I get the train instead, as the service to the domestic and international airports is pretty good but the road system can be a nightmare and there’s always a risk you’ll miss a flight.

    Sydney suffers from the same problem as New York: all the feeder roads (the freeways, tollways and main thoroughfares from the suburbs) dump everything into a bottleneck at all compass points on the outer limits of what is a quite large business district.

    It’s probably a lot like Boston was a few years back before they built those new tunnels running under town.

    We’ve got those, though, and it still hasn’t helped. Public transport is pretty good here, but if you need your car for work, big problems getting into and out of town and parking once you do …

    Infrastructure growth simply isn’t keeping pace with population growth in this town.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I wouldn’t dare make the comparison, but the traffic not just in SF but the entire Bay Area has doubled (or more) over the past twenty years. There’s no longer such a thing as a rush hour. Unless its past midnight, every hour is rush hour.

  • STM

    Yep, I hear ya. It’s the same here. Plus, they are down on cars. The Lord Mayor is killing us with parking fines, and the state government keeps building toll roads in contracts with private industry.

    It just costs a fortune to run a car in this city, but you simply have to have one unless you live withing spitting distance of the city and don’t ever want to go anywhere else, and have no children to transport around the joint.

  • pablo

    Dread 159

    “Pablo, I don’t know where you picked up this old chestnut, but if there were a million people on the no-fly list planes would be empty.”

    Uhhhh the ACLU page referenced below bubba, USA Today referenced below, Wikepedia referenced below, Huff huff huffington post referenced below, digg.com referenced below, ACLU of Northern California referenced below, LA Times referenced below.

    As to your lame argument in post 160:

    “There is supposed to be a vast clandestine organisation which controls the world, has created a grand illusion which it uses to conceal its true purpose, and has stage-managed most of the major news events of recent times as part of that illusion.

    Somehow it manages all that, yet is so incompetent that it can’t even get its story straight about who got arrested off Flight 253.

    How?…?”

    They are not totally in charge but working on it as fast as they can. The fact is that there are people resisting it, and things happen which are out of their control, including news reporting in real time, which sometimes allows for real truth to sneak by. I have never said that this ruling elite is 100% in charge, if that were the case many of us that are resisting it would not be alive today.

    What I do find amazing about you Dread, reporting from your little isolated outpost in inbred Fresno California, one of the two main outposts of true ignoramuses from the Golden State, the other one being Barstow, is that I have yet to see you outraged at the totalitarianism coming from your own native country, and it is indeed outrageous. From the land that produced the Magna Carta to the silthering slimy fascist of Gordon Brown and company. Your native country is all about big brother, totalitarianism, fascism, Fabian Socialism, and the Tavistock Institute of Human behaviour, the architects of MKULTRA.

    How about a little outrage about the Brits pal?

  • pablo

    Here is the supporting link to the above references Dread.

    Over 1,000,000 on terror watchlist

    Old chestnut my ass.

  • pablo

    Oh and Dread,

    Here are two more old chestnut links for ya, one is the ACLU which actually has a watch list counter on it currently at over 135,000,000, the other one is a link to a DOJ Pdf document, listing the list at over 700,000 3 years ago.

    ACLU website

    DOJ website

    Wake up and smell the stink of big brother Dread. Old chestnut? Give me a fucking break.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    DD,

    The last 35 years has been all about parody coming true as history.

    So much for merry old Engelond….

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Over 1,000,000 on terror watchlist

    Old chestnut my ass.

    Pablo, you claimed that there were over a million people on the no fly list, not the watchlist.

    They are not totally in charge but working on it as fast as they can. The fact is that there are people resisting it, and things happen which are out of their control, including news reporting in real time, which sometimes allows for real truth to sneak by.

    If their handling of the recent terrorist incident, as reported by Mr Haskell, is anything to go by, I’m not too worried about their plans succeeding any time soon.

    reporting from your little isolated outpost in inbred Fresno California, one of the two main outposts of true ignoramuses from the Golden State, the other one being Barstow

    Your information on California is out of date. There are three such outposts, not two. You forgot Bakersfield. Nice ad hominem, though. Way to win an argument.

    I have yet to see you outraged at the totalitarianism coming from your own native country, and it is indeed outrageous.

    I’m no fan of Gordon Brown or his party and have never voted for any of them. But your suggestion that Britain has turned into a totalitarian country is ridiculous. The occasional over-vigorous police response and a few too many CCTV cameras does not 1984 make.

  • The Obnoxious American

    Interesting article by Peggy Noonan (who BTW actually supported Obama during the election but has now seen the err in her ways) which makes many of the same points I’ve made above.

    I find it interesting because so many people here were outraged at the conclusion I came to back on December 29th. The true believers here as in many of my articles, did their best to characterize me as a crank, out of step with reality. Yet as the days have passed, I’ve gotten a lot of satisfaction seeing much of the mainstream media produce articles echoing the points I made here.

    I’m not saying I’m absolutely right but I am saying you’re wrong :>

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Obama is the furthest from was this country needs. He’s always been an opportunist, no different from his spectacular rise to power in Chicago politics. I had serious reservations about him, which I suspended temporarily during the primaries. Now that the cat is out of the bag, it should be clear to all and all alike that he’s just another politician, no better or worse than any of them. All that hype and no substance. So a Robert Kennedy he’s definitely not. Not an ounce of passion in him, no true commitment, just politics as usual. But what else can you expect out of Washington these days?

    I just hope you realize that you’re being swarmed by the sea of ideology. Other than that, they’re all the same – left, right or center. There aren’t any distinctions with a difference. It’s an illusion.

    It’s been a long time since we’ve had a true statesman, and it’s not about to change now.

    America has become a one big garbage pale, a dump, and everyone’s is intent on taking a piece of her until she is devoured like an empty carcass.

  • The Obnoxious American

    I just hope you realize that you’re being swarmed by the sea of ideology. Other than that, they’re all the same – left, right or center.

    Interestingly I agree with both parts of this. I am ideological – not in terms of party, but in terms of getting back to what this country should be about. But I also agree that there are useless wastes of time in both parties.

    That said, unless the left changes it’s tune I will always vote GOP because:

    1) It’s fantasy to think a third party candidate will get elected. After all, that’s how we ended up with Clinton.

    2) At least the GOP talks about agreeing with the platform of smaller government, strong defense and fiscal security. Maybe they don’t always stick to these ideals when elected but I have a better chance with them than with Democrats who actually run on a platform I completely disagree with.