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The Religious/Political Right: A Vocabulary Lesson

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Provided here is a “translation tool” of sorts, to help understand terms employed by the Religious/Political Right in editorials and sermons. These terms are also used quite often in the political arena.

Normal: Anyone who is white, heterosexual, married (or engaged to be), attends church at least once a week, and a registered Republican voter. The opposite terms “abnormal”, “repugnant”, “evil”, and of course “offensive” are usually used nearby as a companion in the same paragraph or comment with this word. Blacks and Hispanics can sometimes be included in this category, but only if they completely adhere to strict guidelines, and stay in the background as much as possible.

Law-abiding: This “hijacked” term has been twisted to mean “those who adhere only to “God’s law”, in an attempt to misguide the uneducated into believing there’s a difference between “god’s law” and “civil” laws. For instance, several states and/or municipalities have “Consenting Adult” laws, which state that any two adults of legal consent age, regardless of sex, may engage in sexual activities in the privacy of their own home. To the Religious/Political Right, this is not one of God’s laws, and therefore if you recognize the concept of “Consenting Adult” you are not a “law-abiding” citizen. The same goes for a lawful legal abortion, etc. etc. ad nauseam.

Patriot: Only those who strictly worship the Flag, the Bible, and any denomination of the Baptist Church as a holy trinity. Anyone who does not do so is branded “unpatriotic”. Example: the “Patriot Act” has nothing to do with being patriotic, in the literal sense of the word.

Homosexual: This term is used frequently to stress the “sex’ in homosexual, because the only difference between a homosexual and a heterosexual is who they sleep with at night. The idea behind using the word “homosexual” is to emphasize the myth that gays are nothing more than sexual beings, to the exclusion of all else, as if this is the only thing they think about night and day. This increases the “icky” factor, causing normal god-fearing people to shield their children and themselves from such beasts. Usually in the same sentence or article you’ll find such terms as “predator”, “recruits or recruiter”, “pedophile” or “degenerate” to bolster the claim that gays are only dangerous sexual beings. The term “gay” is to be avoided at all cost.

Special Rights: This a term describes a set of basic human essentials that the Religious/Political Right reserves only and wholly for itself. By using the term “special” it convinces regular folks that gays want rights that “normal God fearing” Christians don’t or can’t have, and that they covet exclusively for themselves! In actuality the “special” rights that the “Religious/Political Right” would have you believe that gays want are the following:

1. The ability to visit a lover/partner of 10 years in an intensive care ward as a “next of kin”, without being barred from the hospital and/or by the opposing family.
2. The unopposed ability of one partner/lover to inherit the property they’ve shared and nurtured for a lifetime from the other.
3. The ability to have both lover/partners listed as “parents” or “guardians” of the biological or adopted children they’ve lovingly raised and nurtured together.
4. The right to jointly own property, and to jointly file income as a couple

Evil: This term should be obvious, but isn’t. The word “evil” was hijacked by the Religious/Political Right, and they love to use this term to describe anything that they don’t agree with. For example, the “Evil Empire” to describe the Soviet Union (not the one associated with Darth Vader). An associated adjective would be “evildoers”. In some ways, by their own definition, The U.S. is doing “evil” by haphazardly tapping innocent citizens phones because they “might” be terrorists, and/or holding foreign prisoners captive without legal representation, and in some cases psychologically or physically torturing them for the purpose of getting information from them.

Liberal: This used to be a proud term, meaning all-inclusive, all-encompassing and all-accepting. It used to be that you’d brag proudly of attending a Liberal College or studying Liberal Arts. However when used by the Religious/Political Right it means, (forgive me for being blunt here) “Fag lover”, “God-hater”, “Baby Killer” and “Against the Flag”.

Pedophile: A pedophile is a homosexual that is attracted to, and tends to kidnap, eat, and/or molest innocent little children of either sex (go figure) and is unsavable. A heterosexual with the same tendencies is a “misguided soul” who needs some loving prayer and religious help, in order to redeem himself in the eyes of the lord.

Secular: This term has taken on a meaning of it’s own, and usually when used by the Religious/Political Right is opposite of its intended “worldly” definition. A new religion as been defined as Secular Humanism, a very slippery term which can mean anything they conveniently want to oppose.

Offensive: see “Evil”.

Beware I’m about to use most of the Liberal Thesaurus on this next two terms!

God-fearing: This term is probably the most self-serving, judgmental, hypocritical, morally ambiguous, intellectually bankrupt, long-winded and Biblically challenged phrase of them all. They use this term to make ordinary people “fear” god, and in so doing to fear them. To fear God, is to fear your reverend/priest/minister, through whom God speaks to you.

God: God is actually someone you unconditionally love, and who loves and accepts everyone; in other words a liberal. (Hmmmm I wasn’t struck by lightning while typing that sentence!) God speaks through you, and to you, and not through self-appointed, self-anointed men who pick and choose which Bible verses are important and which aren’t, in order to argue in favor of slavery, prohibition, or the suppression and segregation of one population over another.

In conclusion:
I miss the good old days when a church or a temple united and pulled a community together, instead of dividing it. A thief, an adulterer or even a prostitute didn’t have the sanctuary doors judgmentally and verbally locked against them in judgment. They were welcomed with open arms in fellowship. In doing so, they and the congregation learned through love and gentle acceptance to change their ways.

The power of hate is a potent weapon, and in the wrong hands can and does push love and acceptance aside.

I’m sad that those days are gone, probably forever, and I’m hoping that someday a surgeon will find a way to separate the Religious Right from the Political Right, who’ve been joined at the hip for far too long.

People such as Pat Robertson, Pat Buchanan, Jerry Falwell, and Rush Limbaugh want nothing more than to acquire the power through the use of the name God, and/or George Bush (who some believe is one and the same) in order to allow them to think and form your opinions for you. They use God, not to spread the meaning and teachings of the Gospels, but to line their pockets, and gain prestige. Robertson and Falwell are nothing more than “thieves at the steps of the temple”. To paraphrase the grandmother on the COSBY SHOW, these men have become so secure in their own sacredness in the scheme of things that they probably believe that the sun doesn’t shine until they wake up in the morning.

I consider myself a Christian… Just not “their” brand of Christian

But of course this is only my opinion

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About Jet Gardner

I like collecting books, music, movies, chess sets and friends
  • Nancy

    Hope you got a good deal of teflon spray, Jet: you’re gonna need it when the righties cotton on to this one. And on Good Friday yet – fie on you! ;)

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #1 Nancy.
    Thanks, I stocked up at Wal-mart when I bought my copy of “Brokeback Mountain”.

    I intentionally wrote this to make people wince at the end of each paragraph, to get an intelligent (that’s the hope anyway) discussion going.

    To be honest, I started writing this last week, finished it this morning, and momentarily forgot about it being Good Friday and wouldn’t have intended it to come out today, if I had.

    I think I’ll go hide in the hole the Easter Bunny’s not using this Sunday.

    Thanks for the worry, sweetie…

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Not bad, but the late ’90s just called — they want their fresh material back.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I’m just happy that Jet has started using paragraphs…

    But a couple of specific points need to be addressed.

    First off, the direct linking of the religious and political right is erroneous. The division is very clear in the GOP these days and we all know that any alliance between the two is an alliance of convenience not principle.

    Blacks and Hispanics can sometimes be included in this category, but only if they completely adhere to strict guidelines, and stay in the background as much as possible.

    A common kneejerk comment from the left, which is belied by the fact that the GOP is running more black candidates for major office in 2006 than either party has ever run before. The new face of the Republican Party is increasingly dark-skinned.

    Example: the “Patriot Act” has nothing to do with being patriotic, in the literal sense of the word.

    I just have to point out that the Patriot Act was approved by a large majority of Democrats in Congress and that they continued to support it when it came up for renewal. In fact, the main efforts to limit the powers of the act came from Republicans, not Democrats.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Matthew, okay, guilty as charged, are you saying the problem isn’t more pressing today?

    Give me a break I just woke up! You mean this isn’t the nightmare Reagan 80s????

  • Arch Conservative

    Ok here’s the flip side of the coin……word’s in the liberal dictionary

    Bigot: Anyone who does not believe that minorities deserve special treament in all aspects of today’s American culture or in any other way does not hold liberal views regarding race issus

    Offensive: Anything that runs contrary to liberal beliefs and/or leftist agenda. Derogatory and/or hateful speech directed toward religious people or conservative people does not qualify as offensive but rather “progressive.”

    Free Speech: The right for liberals to speak thier minds while telling conservatives they must shut up.

    Morality: An illusion that seeks impart the idea that certain behaviors are in fact right or wrong when concerning cultrally accepted norms. There is no such thing as right or wrong there is only the ubiquitous subjectivity of life.

    Racist: Similiar to bigot. Anyone who does not take the leftist liberal view of race relations all of the time.

    Religion: Organized mythology followed by knuckley dragging neanderthals who are mentally, socially, and culturally inferior to enlightened progressive latte drinking athesit, secularists.

    Evil: Anything that would attempt to pass judegmention using the aforementioned term “morality” which as all good porgressives know, is only an illusion.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Jet, on the other ‘current’ thread about gay marriage as well as other topics, you can see the forthcoming book being promoted by Ann Coulter is equating liberalism with godlessness.

    WHile this might have started in the 90’s, the conservative redefining of words definitely continues to this day and so is still relevant.

    I am going to tend to agree with Dave, in that the religious right is no longer synonymous with the political right. The FAR politicial right, yes, but the moderate right is working to put a distance between themselves (and thank God, it’s only about 8 years too late).

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Equality: The liberal version gets it’s own post, the conservative version is buried in the comments.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Also, lines at the BMV are still long, men still leave the toilet seat up, and the only thing in hockey that’s black is still the puck. Guffaw!

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    You forgot:

    Nazi – What you call anyone you disagree with in order to shut them up and marginalize their opinions.

    Fascist – See Nazi.

    Hitler – Who you compare people to in order to shut them up and marginalize their opinions.

    Dave

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Ambrose Bierce just channeled Darren Daulton who wanted me to say he’s really pissed at all of you.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave #4. OOOOOOO got me right in the gut, good deflection though.

    Hmmmm let’s see.
    My paragraphs, yes, since I’ve been so amaturish at it lately, one of your other editors gave me some constructive critisismsmsms.

    Blacks and Hispanics are increasingly being pushed to the single thin front of all those great Republican Party publicity shots, but you and I both know that the men running the show are the white guys grinning in the 8 or 9 solid rows just behind them.

    Regardless of WHO passed the Patriot Act (very good deflection from the point, bravo) the fact remains that the patriot act has nothing to do with being patriotic.

    And while we’re on the subject, sir, it was passed by a Republican controlled congress and a Republican President, that in the opening hours of the war, convinced america that any Senator or Representitive would be branded a Saddam lover and a traitor if they didn’t go along with the herd mentality.

    …but of course that’s only my opinion

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I am going to tend to agree with Dave, in that the religious right is no longer synonymous with the political right. The FAR politicial right, yes, but the moderate right is working to put a distance between themselves (and thank God, it’s only about 8 years too late).

    Well, they snuck up on us, Steve. When the religious right started to infiltrate the party it was run mostly by pro-business liberal northern elitists and their idea of religious conservatives was based on a post-puritan New England model which was very different from the version found in the bible belt, so they didn’t quite see what they were getting into by allying with religious types who were much more extreme and crazy than the type they were familiar with. They had always thought that the really religiously extreme groups were naturally aligned with the Democrats who had the doctrinaire Catholics and the extreme religions which appealed to the poor classes in the south. For them religious conservatism was always associated with the lower classes and something they really didn’t understand. It’s taken some time to see it for what it is and to come to terms with how incompatible it is with the basic political goals of the GOP.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #11… Who?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #6 Ahhhhhh Arch conman, I knew I could count on you. There you have it folks!

    Nancy, can you spare a can of that spray?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Steve #7&8… Amen

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #10. Dave I don’t seem to remember using those in my original rant. Hmmm, I’ll have to add them to my thesaurus.

    Thanks for keeping an eye on Arch, he can be forgetful sometimes in his zeal.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave, regarding #13.
    And you were critisizing me about my paragraphs?????????

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Addenda to #10:

    Neocon – What you call people when they invoke Godwn’s Law after you call them a Nazi.

    And Jet…

    U.S. A P.A.T.R.I.O.T. is just an acronym for “United and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism.” It’s just a coincidence that the title happens to spell USA Patriot. Really.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave 13, unless I counted wrong there’s only two sentences in that thing!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave 13, seriously now. The Religious right took possession of the Republican party when Reagan sold it to them in order to be elected in 1980.

    Them and the NRA

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave #19. I’m going to have to think a while to come up with a snappy retort to that, be patient!

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Well, they snuck up on us, Steve.

    You should know a person completely, before you get into bed with them.

    It’s taken some time to see it for what it is and to come to terms with how incompatible it is with the basic political goals of the GOP.

    These last 8 years have given me grey hairs. The tide better be turning.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Jet, your paragraph problem is the opposite of mine. You tend to make very short paragraphs. I tend to make needlessly long ones.

    And as for the NRA, they belong in both parties and always have. I can dig up a picture of almost every major democratic political figure pretending he’s a hunter.

    Dave

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    The Religious right took possession of the Republican party when Reagan sold it to them in order to be elected in 1980.

    well, Jet I think one of the basic principles of conservatism is it’s snail-like pace.

  • Arch Conservative

    Yeah Jet …..this is your post. You have to keep on top of all the responses. When Dave or I or someone else posts something contrary to your all knowing progressive conciousness you have to jump all over it like Bill Clinton on a White House intern on her first day on the job man.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    SteveS #25 or as president Bush would put it, regarding your remark, “At the speed of thought”

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #Dave Nalle, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t Eric ask that we respond to each commenter as a matter of courtesy?

    I’d quote it, as I copied and pasted it somewhere, but I’m sure I’m right. I feel it’s a privilege to be able to post my thoughts here, and if I decide to give each response individual attention (even Archie’s) instead of ignoring the ones I don’t agree with, that’s Arch’s problem not mine.

    Arch the conman, THANK YOU for comparing me to Bill Clinton, I’m honored and humbled.
    {:^p~~~~~~

  • Nancy

    We could make a case that alternatively one could jump on a retort with the speed of W. Bush reading “My Pet Goat” when terrorists strike. Lessee…that gives Jet over 7 minutes, by my count!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    There you go! Thank you Nancy, I knew I could count on you.

  • Arch Conservative

    Or we could say Jet should respond with the amount of time it took that fat Ted Kennedy to report what happened at Chappaquiddac. Then he’d have almost 24 hours.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    It’s always interesting to note that when liberals and arch conservatives debate, liberals can point out current problems (like when Reagan was president we said things about Reagan, now that Bush is president, we say things about Bush, we talk about current Republican/conservative politicians, pundits, evangelists or whatnot), but arch conservatives alway go back to Clinton/Lewinsky and Ted Kennedy.

    I guess that’s all they have.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Arch 32,33,34 you’re slipping, you didn’t call him a liberal! Does Dave Nalle have to watch you every minute?

  • http://http/paperfrigate.blogspot.com DrPat

    Dave, I’d love to see a picture of Senator Mrs. Bill Clinton sporting an orange vest and a rifle, off to shoot a deer in Harriman State Park…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave #24, in response to Dr. Pat #37, yeah, me too! I bet Bill would’ve behaved better if she’d have posed for it about 15 years ago.

    So show us already!

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Jet, I’m pretty sure there’s no policy that says one ought to respond to every possible comment. If there was then I’d have to actually pay attention to MCH. Some comments aren’t deserving of response or don’t lend themselves to a meaningful response.

    Dave

  • http://http/paperfrigate.blogspot.com DrPat

    Yuck, no! Jet, m’ski, you misunderstood – I meant an orcnge vest OVER her clothes, not IN LIEU OF them!

    (Washing out my mind’s eye…)

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Arch, in comment 31 you’re talking about something that happened over 40 {expletive deleted} years ago you {personal attack deleted}!!
    Kennedy was cleared of all wrong doing repeatedly.

    Shirley, excuse me Surely you can come up with something that doesn’t make you sound like a {expletive deleted} ex-wife digging up the dead and buried past can’t you?

    Come on! I’m very disappointed in you!

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Dr.Pat – this one is faked, but it does show Hillary firing an automatic rifle. The Clintons are not known for their gun usage as a couple – unless you believe the Vince Foster conspiracy theories – I did say almost any democrat, didn’t I?

    Here’s a picture of Kerry pretending to hunt geese.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #40 Dr.Pat. Oh THANKS Dr. Pat. Now that image will be stuck in my head all night!

    How did you think I’d mean that?
    Just remember if your erection lasts more than four hours to call a physician immediately

    Love Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh Dave #42 but I want a real one. (Maybe I should rephrase that) Wherever did you find that? Did you make it yourself?

    On a serious note I feel that anyone who takes the time, no matter what side they’re on, to write me a note, deserves a response. Personally that’s how I feel, and I have no intentions of apologizing for it here.

    Contrary to what Arch Conservative seems to think,
    I don’t lie in waiting, so I can pounce on anything I disagree with, and as anyone can see, I’ve responded to everybody.

    My sincere thanks to all of you for taking the time.

    Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave #42, Wasn’t Cheney “pretending to hunt Quayle (excuse me quaile) when he shot that lawyer?

  • http://http/paperfrigate.blogspot.com DrPat

    No, I understand he was trying to shoot a potatoe…

    (pa-dum-pum!)

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I have this foolish wish that someone new I haven’t heard from yet will comment on the original text of this string.

    …Oh I know, I’m just being silly.

    forgive me

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    It’s always possible that someone will find it on google news and show up. It sometimes takes a day or so, though.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh. The picture of Hillary wearing only a hunting vest, or a new commenter?

  • Baronius

    “I have this foolish wish that someone new I haven’t heard from yet will comment on the original text of this string.”

    Maybe if you wrote something more groundbreaking than “the right wing is mean”, you’d get a broader response. There are too many places on the net to respond to similar statements. So it’s just the same old gang replying to the same old thing. Your most provocative comment was that you forgot it was Good Friday.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    ’nuff said

    sorry

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    WAIT! I TAKE THAT BACK, the problem still exists, damn it. Just because you pronounce it old news Baronius, doesn’t mean it still doesn’t warrant discussion.

    There went another can of spray teflon Nancy.

    Gay marriage, and a lying president?

    Yeah you’re right that is old news. Maybe that’s the damned problem, we’ve gotten so used to it, we just don’t care any more!

  • Yuri

    “We could make a case that alternatively one could jump on a retort with the speed of W. Bush reading “My Pet Goat” when terrorists strike. Lessee…that gives Jet over 7 minutes, by my count!”

    That event really ticked a lot of people off, doesn’t it.

    a. He probably didn’t want to freak the children out.

    b. His staff (secret service) didn’t wish to move him until they ensured themselves that he wasn’t in immediate danger. (Pssst… it’s their job).

    Oh BTW…. the wall came crashing down during Ronnie’s watch. I’m not a big fan, but there are a lot of souls in Eastern Europe who are eternally grateful for what America was able to do during that era. I know that for a fact, I am one of millions.

    Oh, and I met Dan Quayle and Marilyn in St. Thomas back in 91 or 92. They actually were gracious to spend about 30 minutes conversing with me. We had a very plesent visit. I can only speculate that the press was in the target acquisition mode. I can’t imagine that they actually knew that couple.

    Oh, and BTW, I am a U.S. citizen now. I did it legally.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dear Yuri #50. You’ve got a lot to learn about our president, and your new citizenship means you must learn the responsibility to “rock the boat” occasionally and exercize you own opinion. It’s one of your duties to contribute your experiences to us as a whole, and not just “go with the flow”

    I would like you to directly respond to the following, if you dare!

    A. He didn’t want to freak the children out
    So what you’re saying is that while the whole rest of our country was “freaking out”, watching planes plowing into the World Trade Center in great explosions, live on telivesion, according to you, Mr. Bush sat motionless for seven minutes being careful not to freak out a classroom of children. So what you’re saying is it was alright for his whole nation to sit stunned and panic stricken, as long as those kids were calm.

    Now stay with me here… There were TV cameras there watching the president live. All he had to do was shift in his seat slightly, turn to look into the cameras and calm a “freaking out” nation down. Did he? No he didn’t!. Instead, he sat there, and when he did finally look into those cameras, he sheepishly stammered out a useless prayer that didn’t stop the towers from falling, nor all those people from dying in the aftermath now did it?

    As I’ve said many times before. If someone just walked up to me and said quote “Mr. President, the nation is under attack”, I’d grab the nearest cell phone, I’d have the classroom cleared, and have it set up as a command post immediately.
    Instead our president sat quitely and numbly and did nothing, live and on television, for the whole world to watch.

    B. Psssst, The president had an armoured limo parked right outside, designed to and capable of better withstanding an attack on the country, than sitting in the classroom of a 30+ year old school with single-pane non-bullet proof windows, and walls that would’ve probably collapsed if anything bigger than a grenade went off outside.
    Yeah, the secret service were certainly doing their job that day, weren’t they?

    “the wall came crashing down during Ronnie’s watch”. Sorry, the wall came down after Ronnie’s conveniently timed speech, after the CIA informed him of the pending revolt in East Germany, If you were from that region as you say, you’d KNOW it’d take a hell of a long time to bring down a nation as mighty as the Soviet Union in the little amount of time it took between that speech and when the wall came down. The wall came down because of a revolt of an oppressed people due to years of being under a communist rule. Ronnie’s speach made for a nice “sound bite” but the fall of the wall was long in the works before he was even elected… and he knew it before hand
    By your very same logic, are we to also blame the fall of the World Trade Center on George Bush because it was during “his watch”???

    As for Dan Quayle, this is the man who “Freaked out” about a fictional character on TV thinking about having an abortion, and tried to talk her out of it.

    It has been a long standing tradition for decades for the press to make fun of the vice president. I’m ashamed to say that recently the stammering, stuttering, and seeming to forget what he’s saying in mid-sentence, has transfered that tradition to our president instead.

    I’m proud that you’ve become a U.S. citizen, welcome to the club my friend. You’ve taken several major steps that others won’t. Not only do you speak English, but more difficult, you read and write english. Not many people bother when coming from another country. You can take pride in that

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Basically, kids, I suggest you all watch out when George Bush is reading “My Pet Goat.” You all may be the goats he leads to sacrifice…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy #52 Indeed, and well put!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    VoleKiller#54: Coming from an oppressed or depressed country, yes your right a newcomer would appreciate the freedoms he’s gained vs what he left, while we would take them for granted because we’ve had them all our lives. However, while I agree with you in principle, it’d depend a lot on the biases of who teaches the immigrant about our political system.

    Wouldn’t you agree?
    Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    VoleKiller#56 I believe the operative phrase of your opinion above would be “Some people”. In the Political state that our country is in right now, only fifty percent would agree with that view.

    If the latest polls are any indication of the people’s view, and strong evidence that’s been presented lately to the contrary, I’d say that 70 percent disagree.

    That fact that we can each freely express our opinions is the halmark strength of this country.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #58 VoleKiller. Using words like shenanigans, laughable, left-wing, abuse of power etc. lead me to believe that you’re not a persone to be reasoned with.

    In fact, I’d go as far as to say that your only purpose in being here is baiting me into an argument that neither side will concede.

    So I won’t… I respect your opinion, and your right to your opinion. All are welcome here.

    Nancy, More spray please!!!!!

    Obviously I have a few more terms to add to my original article.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    What I see is that immigrants who have experienced real oppression look at what our left-wing calls abuse of power and laugh at them. Try to step into their shoes for a minute. We have an opposition party trying to persecute a president for trying too hard to protect the people from terrorism. To some people that would just look insane.

    You are saying that immigrants who come from oppressed nations support Bush. Polls indicate otherwise. Also, Bush has the lowest approval rating of any President in history, both here and abroad.

    To pull one of your sentences out of your statement:

    We have an opposition party trying to persecute a president for trying too hard to protect the people from terrorism.

    No, he is not being ‘persecuted’ to use your term, for trying to hard to protect us, but for dismal failures like a botched, illegimate war. Unsafe borders, nothing being done in regards to the immigration crisis, a bad economy for many Americans, etc.

    The fact that you say he’s being persecuted for trying to protect us reveals your bias because you know that is not the case.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    SteveS#60 Thanks for your dialogue, but I doubt if he’s listening.

    Sometimes I wonder if we are.
    Have we become as closeminded as them?

  • Dan

    “Dear Yuri #50. You’ve got a lot to learn about our president, and your new citizenship means you must learn the responsibility to “rock the boat” occasionally and exercize you own opinion. It’s one of your duties to contribute your experiences to us as a whole, and not just “go with the flow””

    It looks as if Yuri has already rocked someone’s boat.

    I doubt that Yuri has “a lot to learn” from petulant, psycho-ninnies, who are so obsessed with their deviant sexuality, and phantom oppression, that they perversely fail to recognize they are blessed with birthright membership in a land that has been the greatest force for human rights and opportunity the world has ever seen.

    Yuri could probably *teach* many of us.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Immigrants are known to be as a group more politically astute than the general populace, so I think lecturing Yuri for holding views you see as backwards may be a bit much.

    But Dan, your comments about psycho-ninnies is completely uncalled for. Your attitude is what makes it possible for those on the left to paint the entire right as bigots, no matter how far that is from the truth for most of the reasonable right.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dan, I’m the one who suggested he rock the boat in #51 (which I think you might need to read again) I’m the one that said that while he had the right to his opinion, and that I respected it, that it depends greatly on who taught him about our system of government and the current political environment, as to what his attitudes would be. I’m also the one who freely admitted in #61 that I might just be as closed-minded about the subject as you apparently are-at least I admit it and welcome other opinions.

    You’re a fine voice for the right-wing, and I’m sure that they are glad that they found you to speak for them.

    I challenge you to read his comment #50, then read my reply on #51, and INTELLIGENTLY answer each one of my points. He couldn’t can you?

    …but that’s only my opinion

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Gays and lesbians face many undue hardships in this country, leading to a suicide rate among gay youth that is 5 times the national average. The FBI website tracks hate crimes among our group, oddly Dan, no one has ever been brutally assaulted for being straight. Gay people are unfairly taxed, we pay into systems that we do not get the same amount back as you do, the list is endless.

    When I call this stuff oppression it is. But that does not mean it is on the level of oppression that say a woman in Saudi Arabia or the old Iraq endured.

    While we are grateful that we don’t face the oppression of other countries, that doesn’t mean we are just going to clam up and allow our civil liberties in this country to be trampled on under the guise of religious bigotry.

    There is no logic in telling Americans to just accept the violation of their liberties because other countries have less. That’s not how America operates.

    You don’t tell a rape victim that people who are murdered have it worse. Your logic is callous and flippantly disregards the proven and documented ostracization and stigmatization that violates gay and lesbians civil liberties.

    We gay and lesbians are VERY aware of our birthright in this country, for it is that birthright that enables us to not hide in fear but tell bigots like you where to stick your opinion.

  • Yuri

    Jet, you have been described as lecturing.

    I do not agree, I am not in need of lecturing. I am a survivor, been there, done that, don’t want to talk about it.

    I learned english at a young age, I may know grammer better than many english speaking Americans, but I still have to translate in my head on many occasions. It is difficult, especially when drinking.

    I appreciate everyone’s kindness and thoughts regarding my life long challenge. But I do know this. I am here, I am safe, I am healthy, I am free, I am earning a good living, I am happy.

    I also know that armored cars cannot withstand hand held missiles such as a LAWS or HARP or even an RPG. You are misinformed regarding the presidents limosine, it’s beefed up but High Explosive compounds are very powerful.

    I also know executive protection protocol, and you are misinformed in your assumptions.

    I also know that the president does not jump into a phone both and turn into a superhero, they require information, both collected and analyized. I am not stupid.

  • Yuri

    and I was in Czech republic during the fall of the Berlin Wall, of course we did not know about it during the occurance. Television and radio was not broadcasting the events, until later when patriots dared to break the news.

    The CCCP was broke. America outspent the the Supreme Soviet with an outlandish ruse. The Soviet was so concerned with countering the threat that they went broke dealing with the information they had acquired. The economic structure of the Soviet was weak anyway, it was pushed over the the limit by American plans to sack the bloc economically. We did not have goods and services, we did not have reliable infrastucture, we did not even have transportation. Our trucking lost 25% of crops going to market because things like the the tailgates did not close and grains leaked out. Milk rotted because refridgeration was not properly maintained. The roadways were horrible. You do not have any idea. We were not permitted to travel, and did not know how widespread this condition existed. But it was everywhere! The whole marxist concept was failed. The food lines, the lack of basic needs. Can you imagine washing on a cold morning with your visable breath and cold water? Owning 2 pairs of underwear, socks with holes, ill fitting pants, not a dungeree to be had? Can you? We grew up hard in my land. We and everyother country dominated by the Soviet grew up very poor and needing many things. Health care? What was that? You drank to feel better, medicine was not seen at the store. But neither was bread, or milk. Complain? Quietly or you would suffer. You have know idea, and I reject any insinuation that you do. You just don’t know. Yet, you argue and lecture to me as if I’m the one who is out of touch. It is insulting.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    steveS #65 Thanks. I’m glad there are calm heads around, because I’m going to let loose, if I don’t stop for a moment and take a breath…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Yuri, giving me your inventory of socks and underwear doesn’t come close to answering my question.

    Bush was better off in a small armored moving target, than a large stationary building and you know it. For a foreigner you seem to know a lot about terrorists, but you definately don’t know about tactics.

    You still haven’t answered why Bush couldn’t turn to the cameras that were pointed directly at him and make a statement to the country. Any Idiot seeing two jets plowing into two adjacent buildings almost simultaneously, could figure out that that was no accident. Bush didn’t need more information, nor did he need to wait until someone confirmed it, because he was too stupid to see the evidence right before his eyes live and on television. Why did he wait so long, BECAUSE HE WAS WAITING FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO MAKE HIS DECISION FOR HIM!!! That’s why.

    A jet plowing into the pentagon might have given him a clue too!

    Sideways moaning about leaking grain and rotten milk have nothing to do with the subject of this string, and you know it. The fact that you haven’t plausibly addressed the issues that I raised in #51 proves that you can’t come up with an argument, and that you know I’m right, and attempting to distract us with your storied, troubled, and possibly fictional past isn’t swaying me. Nor is your inventory of hand-held shoulder fired missiles.

    You can self-righteously pontificate, and vigorously demand an apology till you’re blue in the face, but that only proves that I’m right about the points I made in #51.

    To sum up.
    Bush had no business sitting there while his country was being attacked. Solid proof, or lack of information be damned. He is our leader and even the hint of danger to this country would’ve sent Bill Clinton into IMMEDIATE action.

    You want to smuggly compare Bush to Clinton? Have you ever seen a president take more vacation time? You had to practically pry Clinton out of the White House.
    What was the deficit when Clinton left office in 2001 and what is it now?

    Instead of real action during a crisis, our leader, mumbles, stutters and then goes into public prayer, instead of offering real solutions to the problem at hand.

    His useless public prayers didn’t stop the twin towers from falling before everyone got out.
    His useless public prayers didn’t help find anyone in the rubble.
    His useless public prayers and irresponsible inaction didn’t get jets into the air fast enough to stop an airline from crashing into the pentagon.
    His useless public prayers didn’t help the miners in West Virgina
    His useless public prayers didn’t stop Hurricane Katrina.
    His useless public prayers only catered to the religious right, and made him look like a fool.

    Anyone else would’ve taken decisive action FIRST, and prayed to thank god for his wisdom and guiding hand later, not the other way around.

    Yes Yuri, you can teach us a few things alright, like standing around whining and demanding apologies when you lose control of your life, and when your feelings get hurt from a perceived lecture. You pout there at your keyboard, and instead of standing up for your own country and fighting like you should have, to make it better from within, you fled like a scared rabbit to another country.

    You nicely prove the point of my original writing in spades, and I thank you for it.

    But thank you so much for contributing to our little conversation here.

    love Jet

  • Dan

    OK Jet, I think Yuri had already given his thoughts on why GW did what he did during the attack. But I’ll give you mine:

    Point A: You say the “whole nation” was stunned and “panic stricken”. I wasn’t. Interestingly, I was on my way to Indianapolis airport to board a United Airline flight to Las Vegas with my life partner. During a lapse in our giddy conversation, she turned on the radio. When we heard the report, I pulled off the side of the road, and we turned and headed back. It was early but we realized all flights would be cancelled. We weren’t panicked.

    You suggest that the President’s reading of a goat story was being broadcast “live” and that he should have turned to the camera and calmed a “freaking out” nation. I don’t think it was being broadcast at all. I think an obscure tape of the event was made for the future use of students and faculty, which eventually got into the hands of anti-American propagandists.

    You say that, if you were GW. you would have cleared the classroom and turned it into a “command post”. Why not strap on pearl handled revolvers and run out into the street firing bullets into the air like general Patton?

    Thankfully, there is a strict protocol for handling this event that required the president, any president, to sit for 7 minutes and look stupid, to you, while qualified people performed their roles to get the president into a position to perform his.

    Point B: I guess your saying that Reagan had nothing to do with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Please give it up. The most memorable event for me was when Reagan walked out on the SALT talks. Reagan wasn’t going to compromise, and that pissed the liberal media offfffff. They were wrong, he was right. I was a liberal before Ronald Reagan, but I bought in to what he was selling. When he bluffed the commies with strategic air defense (and unprecedented defense spending) I assumed it was true. The most intelligent people come here. And it’s plausible that that type of technology would be possible. When the Soviets finally folded, it was because of Conservatives. Not Liberals. If you can’t thank Reagan, at least you can thank conservatives.

    Dave, I’ve never been edited for personal attacks. I’m proud of it. I’ve suffered personal attacks that have been edited, but it’s never bothered me. (so I havn’t really suffered). I think “psycho-ninnies” is harsh, however, I’m going to let it stand only as a reflection on me, and not as a reflection on the “reasonable right” such as yourself.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet, reread what Dave Nalle said about the astuteness of immigrants. And then reread it again.

    He didn’t have it as hard as my own dad did 90 years ago when the Germans invaded Russia-Poland, but he didn’t go through any cakewalks when Gorbachev’s perestroika and Reagan’s spending bluffs brought about the end of the Soviet Union.

    Yuri, just a thought for you – not a pleasant one, but not lecturing by any means. You dealt with a rough time in Russia and now that you are an American citizen, you might be inclined to think that the troubles are all over. That is a reasonable inclination.

    Your new nation may be in for one hell of a time in the not too distant futre. So don’t forget all those survival skills you learned in Russia. You may very well need them again.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Thankfully, there is a strict protocol for handling this event that required the president, any president, to sit for 7 minutes and look stupid

    Sounds like something only a secretary of defense like Rumsfeld would concoct.

    If the school building was under attack, would the President have had to sit there stupidly for 7 minutes as well while everybody got into their battle stations? What exactly is it that he waited 7 minutes for, for everybody to do, before he could act? Get in the car and leave? Because that’s what he did.

    however, I’m going to let it stand only as a reflection on me

    Call someone an insulting name and then play the martyr for it. Bill O’Reilly would be proud.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Your new nation may be in for one hell of a time in the not too distant futre. So don’t forget all those survival skills you learned in Russia. You may very well need them again.

    care to elaborate? For two years, here in the comment section, I’ve been saying we’re heading for either civil war (haves vs. have nots) or an economic collapse and get called chicken little for it. I’d love to hear you elaborate.

  • Dan

    Steve:”Gays and lesbians face many undue hardships in this country, leading to a suicide rate among gay youth that is 5 times the national average.”

    You confuse persecution with mental instablility. I had a bi-sexual friend who commited suicide. It wasn’t because of his sexual orientation. Or at least it wasn’t because he was persecuted for his sexual orientation. He was just plainly depressed. He was well liked, yet unhappy. He was a good singer. He had lot’s of things going for him, and nobody that mattered to him, including me, held his sexuality against him.

    “You don’t tell a rape victim that people who are murdered have it worse. ”

    What if the rape victim tells you that they’ve had it worse.

    “We gay and lesbians are VERY aware of our birthright in this country, for it is that birthright that enables us to not hide in fear but tell (bigots like you) where to stick your opinion”

    You’ve violated the personal attack comment policy, yet I’m not offended, (and don’t expect you to be edited) Just remember I don’t condemn you.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    You’ve violated the personal attack comment policy,

    well then that makes us even. You tell a gay man that a gay orientation is mental instability. Sounds like a far more insulting attack than just telling you where to stick it.

  • Dan

    Steve, please be honest, you called me a bigot, not “where to stick it”.

    yet, I expect that from you. Name calling is all you’ve got.

    I only say that gay orientation is positively correlated with mental instability. Of course you’ll say that it’s because of persecution. But then, that serves your purpose. It’s a cause and effect thing.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    and for the record, and to the editor…I never told anybody where to stick it, I just said in this country we have that freedom. I can’t help it if someone’s imagination runs rampant with comments like that.

    However, telling a gay person that being gay is due to mental instability IS a personal attack without mistake and far more vitrolic than I’ve been accused of.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I only say that gay orientation is positively correlated with mental instability.

    So you disagree with 100% of all medical establishments out there, like the American Medical Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Pediatric Association, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

    Being so close minded is the definition of a bigot, correct? Whatever. Remove the ‘like yourself’ phrase from the comment if you need, the point is still clearly there for all to see.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I had a bi-sexual friend who commited suicide.

    and so you define an entire group of people by that?

  • Dave Nalle

    Steve, I think Dan was out of line earlier, but describing homosexuality as a whole as a mental disorder isn’t technically a personal attack, it’s a blanket attack on all gays, so I suspect it’s okay under the comment policy if not in any way that’s actually meaningful.

    Back to the irrelevant digression at hand. 7 minutes is no time at all. It’s the time it takes to get the driver into the armored limo and pull it around to the front of the school. The whole argument over that 7 minute delay is ridiculous. In the context of all the things that were going on at the time it’s so trivial that those who attempt to exploit it make themselves look like fools. The Secret Service told Bush what was happening and told him to wait until they were ready to go. He used that time to keep reading so as not to alarm the kids. End of story. You or I would do EXACTLY the same thing, because there was nothing else that could be done.

    Dave

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    isn’t technically a personal attack, it’s a blanket attack

    Dave, use the ‘n’ word to describe all African Americans, TO an African American and ask them if it’s personal. Now how exactly is what Dan just said any different? It’s not Dave.

    Use the ‘b’ word, or the ‘c’ word to describe women, to a woman, and ask her if it’s personal. Ask a Muslim, if a slam against their religion is personal. Ask a Jew.

    I think this is what’s problematic with a lot in this country and why so many people of all genders, races, religions, ethnicities, orientations and cultures are at odds. I think a lot of ‘YOU GUYS’ don’t understand what a personal attack is. It doesn’t always have to include a direct name.

  • Dan

    Steve S. comment #65: “We gay and lesbians are VERY aware of our birthright in this country, for it is that birthright that enables us to not hide in fear but tell bigots like you where to stick your opinion.”

    If you wouldn’t have added the “like you” you wouldn’t be guilty of a personal attack. But seriously, I don’t think calling people “bigot” is all that bad is it? Like I said, no harm, no foul.

    Steve S comment #77: “However, telling a gay person that being gay is due to mental instability IS a personal attack without mistake and far more vitrolic than I’ve been accused of.”

    Actually it’s more a personal opinion than a “personal attack” but it’s not what I said anyway, so your being irrelevent.

    I said that mental instability is *positively correlated* with gay orientation. This is simply true.

    If it makes you feel any better, genius is also positively correlated with gay orientation. Not to say that all geniuses are gay.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Steve S.

    You write,

    “care to elaborate? For two years, here in the comment section, I’ve been saying we’re heading for either civil war (haves vs. have nots) or an economic collapse and get called chicken little for it….”

    I lean toward economic collapse topped with a massive flu epidemic. The economic collapse can be foreseen in one of Kathy Gil’s articles about the overspent condition of the country and the fact that the US national debt is enough to wipe out every American (including broke ex-pats like me!).

    Essentially it is premised on the “every bubble must burst eventually” concept. You guys have at least one bubble artificially inflating your economy, that being home prices, with two others being the huge credit overhang of the government, and the even huger credit overhang of consumers. Think of three huge beer bellies about to be popped by a needle.

    In spite of recent news that the bird flu has not yet developed an “easy” route to human to human transmission, I have faith that “life will find a way.”

    A civil war between haves and have-nots could well follow an economic collapse, a natural consequence of the collapse.

    Anybody minded to call me “chicken little” should remember that it’s a rooster, not a chicken – as in Ruvy’s Roost.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I said that mental instability is *positively correlated* with gay orientation. This is simply true.

    link please.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Ruvy, anybody who has read me for awhile now can tell you that’s something I’ve been saying here for several years. One of the things I wonder about, when I see people hoarding their wealth in this country, is what good it will do them when the economy collapses. Only the tangible assets they’ve been able to accumulate up to that point will be any good and then it becomes a matter of defending it and the more you’ve got to defend, the harder it’s going to be. There’s going to be a lot of hungry people out there. Survival of the fittest and all that. A lot of CEO fatcats won’t survive that.

    I do see a war between the haves and the havenots, from the blue collar workers who get screwed over by the CEO who makes 100 million, down to the illegal immigrants, but that belongs on another thread.

    As for the bird flu, I’ve read it will take 8 months from initial outbreak until the damage is primarily over, (that was on discovery channel I think), so if you’re not vaccinated, look to survive on your own and avoid human contact for a minimum of 8 months. Of course vaccinations will go to the rich who can afford it (but in a collapsing economy, I imagine you’ll have to have something other than money to bargain with. Food perhaps). That’s getting a little out there (in a chicken little sense), so I hope that the outbreak doesn’t happen. I can only imagine that most other parts of the world would fair even worse given that many of them have even fewer resources.

    And another thing we need to remember is that if the U.S. economy collapses, a lot of other economies around the world will follow suit. I also think that with the way Bush has been spending, bankrupting the economy has been the agenda of many neocons.

    “My goal is to cut government in half in twenty-five years, to get it down to the size where we can drown it in the bathtub.” – Grover Norquist, President of the Heritage Foundation, a huge think tank that gives Bush many of his ideals.

  • Dan

    Dave Nalle: “so I suspect it’s okay under the comment policy if not in any way that’s actually meaningful.”

    Of course it’s OK Dave. Speaking truth is almost always meaningful. I’m not happy that gays suffer disproportionatly from mental illness. Nor have I said that gayness is a mental illness. (although I might logically hold that opinion) I only challenge Steve S’s assertion that persecution drives gays to suicide.

    Mentally ill people have a higher rate of suicide. Gays have a higher rate of mental illness. Thus, gays have a higher rate of suicide.

    If persecution is the primary cause of suicide, why is it that white men are much more likely than black men or women of any color to commit suicide? Surely, from the liberal viewpoint, they are the most priviliged members of society.

    Oh, and please continue with the personal attacks, or the willful ignorance of such. It’s a wonderful demonstration of rank hypocricy to fair-minded Blog Critics readers.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Ladies and Gentlemen: Please confine your debate to the topic at hand and it’s conversational spinoffs.

    It’s my unfortunate lot ;-) to be the one currently tasked with what is acceptable comment policy and as long as that’s the case, I’d appreciate you all butt out of let me get on with my job.

    When I first started doing it, I was inclined to delete far more than now, being unfamiliar with your mostly American ways and insistence upon freedom of speech and other such frivolities (JOKE!).

    The Blogcritics’ house is however a very tolerant one and people as diverse in their views as Mr Nalle and say, co-owner Phillip Winn have urged me to be as lighthanded and low profile as possible. That may well include not doing this, but I’m only human too!

    I’m finding my own way through dealing with this but it seems clear that to totally erase all personal characterisation would be wrong. Similarly, tolerating too much of it is unhelpful to enjoyable debate.

    The point is, until you all make my role redundant through your own exquisite good judgement, I’m probably going to offend all of you some of the time and possibly some of you all of the time. Sorry about that!

    On the subject of Jet’s post, I’d like to add that people who use the word liberal as an insult are not actually attacking liberalism, they are attacking tolerance. If you substitute the words, you can see how truly ugly these ideas are and how ludicrous they sound. “Commy-loving tolerant” et cetera.

    It’s a stunning victory for the politics of hate regardless of it’s location on the political spectrum and all decent people ought to recognise that.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Okay Dan, I’ll conceded that the whole nation was stricken about the death and destruction in New York and Washington DC except you. You know, that’s very telling, that while thousands were dying and suffering, you were only pissed that your flight had been canceled.
    I’d say bin Laden owes you an apology

    You’re living with a “life partner” without being married? How immoral!

    I’m saying that Nixon and Ford had more to do with the eventual fall of the Soviet Union. I’m saying that Kennedy’s speech had more to do with rallying east German resolve to oppose the Russian imposition of a divided Berlin. I’m saying the Kennedy, Nixon and Ford had more to do with the fall of the Soviet Union… Reagan just took credit for it.

    I’m saying that those cameras could’ve, should’ve been utilized immediately to make a statement to the country. Instead, they might have broadcasted to the world be it live or on tape, that the president was taking action, not sitting like an ineffective pawn, reading a kid’s book.

    Dave Nalle, your theory of him just passing time while the limo pulled around to a door, doesn’t hold water. If that were the case, Bush would’ve been whisked to or at least near that door, so he could board the vehicle the moment it arrived.
    Truth be told, one of the most modern and effective military command and control posts in the world, capable of handling any emergency, is aboard AIR FORCE ONE. The fact that he wasn’t moved there immediately, is telling. It meant that his generals and experts, were handling the situation, because they didn’t trust Bush to do it. So, they left him to read a kid’s book and offer useless prayers.

    Yuri, your assertion that the limo wasn’t a good idea because it wouldn’t withstand a rocket attack is telling also. A rocket attack, now that requires planning, but if it was planned, shoulder fired rockets wouldn’t have been used in the first place. Another airliner would’ve been hijacked to crash into the school, a rather large target and easily recognized. The limo would’ve been a little harder to spot.

    I wrote about the bible and dinosaurs, and one of the responses I got, is as preposterous as some of the protestations I’ve heard so far out of Dan and Yuri. A reader couldn’t come up with a reasonable explanation for it, so he asserted that God intentionally created dinosaur bones, and placed them where man could find them to test his faith, proving that dinosaurs never existed, thus they wouldn’t have been mentioned in the bible.

    My original statement stands.

    You say plate
    I say dish

    As I look over the field of battle, and view all the bodies and blood, all I can do is feel sorrow at how useless it all was.

    I didn’t change anything
    You didn’t change anything
    No minds or views were changed.

    Ruvi, I respect your views, but don’t share your apocolyptic view, except on one point. As the economic classes further divide and the middle class vanishes, creating a country of haves and have nots, there will be an uprising.

    I’m praying it’s at the voting booth and not on the field of battle. You see the widening cultural divide in this country is weakening this country. While we’re busy fighting eachother, someone’s going to get the idea to strike at us while we’re distracted with our little “my dick’s bigger than your dick” fight…

    This country has accumulated one hell of a financial debt totalling into the billions in the space of only 6 years. Where is that money that all of us spent. It’s sitting in the hands of companies that took “no bid” contracts, charging a fortune for items worth one tenth of what we paid for. It’s in the pockets of the Oil Companies that Bush owes props to, because they knew that a crisis in the middle east would raise gas prices and generate obscene profits for them. It’s in the pockets of “Sweet deal” thieves like the company that Chenney use to run… Haliburton.
    All it’s done is buy a still loose bin Laden, a defiant Saddam, laughing at us in a courtroom on television, it bought us thousands of dead soldiers, and an Iran on the verge of civil war.

    … but you see that’s only my sick minded, feeble minded, in dire need of a shrink before I commit suicide minded, and bigotted opinion.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Christopher #87. Very well put, I stand chastized. I’m glad to see calmer minds prevail, whether they agree with me or not

    Thanks
    Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    By the way Chris #88 was written and rewritten while you posted your well-put comments, and was posted without knowledge of what you were writing, nor was it in response to it.
    Jet

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    You wrote,

    “but you see that’s only my sick minded, feeble minded, in dire need of a shrink before I commit suicide minded, and bigotted opinion.”

    Don’t waste your money on a shrink – you don’t need one. If you decide to commit suicide, just don’t do it before I get there to watch – if I can’t affored to make the trip, you’lll just have to wait.

    Bigoted is spelled with one “g and one “t”.”

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Since you’ve appointed yourself my spell checker you’ll be interested to know that it’s spelled you’ll, not you’lll. See we’re all prone to making mistakes my friend

    but you see that’s only my speeling-challenged, sick minded, feeble minded, in dire need of a shrink before I commit suicide minded, and bigotted opinion.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I’m curious Ruvy, are you anxious for me to commit suicide, or just to watch?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Yuri, I’m curious, in my article Have I Become A Bigot Regarding Fundamentalists?, you wrote…

    No matter who or what offends. Don’t be a hater. Love is a masterful tool, not possessed by many.

    After reading your comments here, my question is did you write that, or did someone using your name write it?

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    If persecution is the primary cause of suicide, why is it that white men are much more likely than black men or women of any color to commit suicide? Surely, from the liberal viewpoint, they are the most priviliged members of society.

    Right wingers on this site have a very bad habit of throwing out claims and then when asked to substantiate them, just disappear. I hope I’m not the only one noticing this trend of numerous right wingers. Dan is still unable to substantiate a correlation between mental illness and orientation.

    Suicide statistics: 73 percent of all suicide deaths are white males. If you look at the causes for suicide, Dan, it’s pressure. The pressure on the white male is assumed to be greater. If you look at a datasheet showing the income levels of a white male and the income levels of a black woman across the nation, you can see they aren’t even. The pressures of the white male to get into that world of privilege is much greater.

    The pressure/condemnation that drives a gay person to suicide is the same. A gay teenager might be thrown out of the house, if he comes out of the closet, the pressure to hide is immense and so he will kill himself, even though to outsiders he seemed to live in a comfy world of privilege.

    Note this from my link:
    there are an estimated 8-25 attempted suicides for each suicide death; the ratio is higher in women and youth and lower in men and the elderly.
    more women than men report a history of attempted suicide, with a gender ratio of 3:1.

    So it can also be said that more women TRY suicide but more men are successful at it. Further blowing your unsubstantiated rationalization completely out of the water.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet,

    You wrote, “I’m curious Ruvy, are you anxious for me to commit suicide, or just to watch?”

    Look at it this way. If you have to wait to commit suicide until I get to America again, you’ll die of natural causes.

  • Mark

    Some words Arch Conservative missed in his expanded liberal dictionary.

    Stereotype: Something used by the losing side of the argument to present a straw man they can more easily defeat.

    Right-wing Dictionary: see Stereotype.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    SteveS, as always, thanks for the research. He’s going to ignore you, until he can find some slanted study that supports his point of view.

    Be patient, it could be a long wait.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy #96 That’s a relief, you had me worried there.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #97… I’m running out of space to write things in the margins there Mark. Thanks for your thoughts

    Jet

  • Alethinos59

    Good post Jet. The issue, once again lost on people such as Arch and even David ISN’T a THEM v. US thing… It is the intolerance of the Right to ANY point of view OTHER than theirs.

    I certainly wouldn’t characterize myself as liberal – not by a long shot – but the Religious Right’s attitude is revolting…

    And should lead to revolting..

    Alethinos

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Alethinos, I’ve been looking forward to a comment from you. Thanks, and where’ve you been?

  • Joey

    “Good post Jet” — #101

    Okay what did I miss? A veiled attempt at humor, or a conditional submission of less than thought provoking agenda? No need to reply, as the author will undoubtedly speak his mind, as always (yawn) and inevitably cross into territorial agenda yet once again. Baiting is always so obvious.

    We need to change the caveat of “personal attacks are not allowed… ” to “articles which insult the readers intelligence (or show a lack thereof on behalf of the wrtiers…..” (I had better quit before I cross that imaginary line in the sand).

    Has anyone observed that entrance into the realm of insult is a one way street? The writers can exercise free will, while the readers have to endure?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Joey, I raised this question on my other string. You seem like a nice enough guy, but why raise hell about, or even read an editorial on a subject that has no interest to you.

    The fact that we all have different viewpoints in this world is a good thing. If we all thought alike it’d be a damned boring place to live.

    Do a little contributing to the string with your thoughts (other than yawning), and you might learn something, and I might learn something from you!

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Alethinos, in #101 you make the fundamental mistake of thinking that the right has a monopoly on being intolerant of any views other than their own. The same is just as true of the dogmatic left. It’s not a characteristic of political ideology, it’s a characteristic of being a dogmatic true believer regardless of what those beliefs are.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks for clarifying that Dave. I’ve been saying all along that I get my views out so I can see other’s views, whatever thay are. I like being proven wrong, because I learn from it.

    I just don’t like self-righteous jerks who profess “I’m right because I said so.”

    Give me a plausible reason for your views, not smart-ass remarks.

    I write in the style I do and push the envelope a little, to cause people to think, even get a little riled up enough to put their thoughts down, so I can learn from them.

    I’m not tryint to insult anyone, just get them to think, and maybe allow me to learn from them.

    Jet

  • Joey

    “Joey, I raised this question on my other string. You seem like a nice enough guy, but why raise hell about, or even read an editorial on a subject that has no interest to you.”

    Because I can. Maybe it’s a habit developed from obtaining 2 degrees…. I read a lot things that I had no interest in… but had to.

    Do I have to read this? No, but sometimes when I take a glance at something, the article and thread just cries out for me to smash and twist it so it issues the essence of the underlying vomitus muck from whence it spawned.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    “to smash and twist it so it issues the essence of the underlying vomitus muck from whence it”

    Well… thanks for clearing that up

  • Joey

    I thought you would appreciate that one. It just sort of came out of my fingertips.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Actually I don’t, but that’s only my opinion

  • Joey

    BTW refer to the FCC article… I actually took a break from my the Mao book I am engaged in (note that engaged is quite different from reading) and replied at length. I will admit that often my comments are somewhat in the drive by mode, but I mean well.

  • Joey

    Yes it is only your opinion.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Okay I’ll change my tag line to “That’s merely my opinion.” What polling company do you work for?

  • Joey

    Funny you should ask. I keep reading about all these polls… how someone polled this or that and the respondents….

    I have never been polled. Ever.

    Hmmmm. Maybe it’s my look. I need a make over.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Aside from making Polish jokes, do you have anything to contribute to the subject of this string, or is this going to degenerate into a pissing contest, that frankly I don’t have time for?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Joey #114 “I have never been polled. Ever.” Don’t knock until you’ve tried it! since we’re trading sarcasms

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Can we somehow get back to the subject?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet, this “subject” is one that needs renewing every few news cycles. Each new buzzword introduced by each new spinmaster makes your work above – and those on the other side – oudated. So you may wish to consider this as a series. You lucky boy, you.

    If you are able to separate yourself from your beliefs (tricky, but can be done) you can cover both sides of the fence every 6 weeks or so with a brand new bunch of bullshit from the American political spin scene. And given that busllshit is Ameerica’s most abundant resource, you should have plenty to write.

    From the former publisher of BSI Inc. (Bullshit International)

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Hmmmmmmmmmm thanks for the suggestion…

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    actually, I think Ruvy has a good idea.

    And if what we’ve seen of the other commenter’s ‘smashing and twisting’ is the best it gets, then you have nothing to worry about, Jet.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Stay tuned for the sequel folks!

    You know, while I’m at it, I’m thinking of doing one about words that you stare at, know they’re spelled right, but just can’t convince yourself that they are…

    like sequel

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    Just give the Devil’s Dictionary his due, because that’s really the bit you’re stealing.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave Nalle, help me out on this one. Matt I write from the heart, and I didn’t even know that text existed, or I would’ve plagarized it better. As you can read early on in this, I had no idea who the man was.

    I am not a thief
    and I do not steal,

    I resent the implication

    I’m interested that you had to go all the way back to the early 1900s to find something resembling my writings. I suppose if I did enough research, I could google texts that would vaguely show plagarisms for everyone from Rush Limbaugh to Ted Kennedy.

    If you’re out and out, plain as day accusation of my stealing is true, you don’t know me very well.

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    (In creepy possessed child voice) “Dave’s not here.”

    Relax. Good artists copy, great artists steal.

    By not attributing that great quote I stole it and looked smart. The circle is complete.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I will assert, good or great I didn’t steal anything and I resent the insinuation that I did.

    or am I just taking this whole thing all wrong?

  • http://progged.blogspot.com Progged

    “It is the intolerance of the Right to ANY point of view OTHER than theirs.”

    I might actually laugh at that comment, if it wasn’t so old and tired. The Left is no different, as this article and the ensuing comments so perfectly demonstrate. The Left is just as full of hate, venom and self-righteousness as the Right has ever been.

    In fact, this article (and many of the comments) highlights the very reason that many of us who stand somewhere in the middle (having willfully distanced myself from the Right) have not, and likely will not ever, be swayed by the Left. We look one way and see intolerance, arrogance and hate, then look the other and are greeted by the same.

    Tired hyperbole and rehashed rhetoric do nothing to convince those astute enough to see past it, no matter which side the tripe issues forth from.

  • Nancy

    Relax, Jet. I do a lot of quoting, too, but can’t always remember the attribution; I just figure someone who’s got a wide spread of info, like Gonzo or Dave or Eric will eventually either correct it or identify it for me. Point is, you’ve got to WORK at plagarism, and I don’t think anyone here thinks you have; Matt is just tweaking you, it seems to me. If he wanted to slam you, you’d know it. He pulls no punches when he thinks someone’s a dork.

  • TA Dodger

    “It is the intolerance of the Right to ANY point of view OTHER than theirs.”

    I might actually laugh at that comment, if it wasn’t so old and tired.

    Yeah… the left wants to FORCE people to have sex with members of the same sex. FORCE people to use birth control. FORCE people to abandon religion, FORCE people to consume media they find offensive…

    Oh wait… that’s not true at all.

    The right on the other hand wants to FORCE people to conform to their vision of sexual and religious morality.

    If you believe that the left is “intolerant” of the right (and you understand the difference between “is intolerant of” and “disagrees with”) please feel free to actually give a warrant supporting your position.

  • Nancy

    Beyond that, who’da’thunk that ‘7 minutes’ thing would be so sensitive with a certain crowd?! Wow. Talk about pressing buttons, to where they go all the way back to Teddy The Chappaquiddick Menace. Actually 7 minutes is more than enough time to do the old “I should’a said…” routine. 24 hours is ‘way too long. And not many of us are as quick on our, uh, feet as ol’ Bill.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Progged #126 Finally someone made my point for me. This nation has become so totally divided that we stand on opposite sides of the room pointing blaming fingers and calling eachother childish names.

    Bring back the era when the left and right came together as one nation after an election, instead of the loser trying to bring down the winner before he’s even sworn in!

    bravo

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Alright Nancy, how many times do I have to ask you to send me some more teflon spray?

    None

    You just did.

    Thanks
    Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    TA Dodger 128, should the occasion arise when I need it, may I quote you?

  • TA Dodger


    Bring back the era when the left and right came together as one nation after an election, instead of the loser trying to bring down the winner before he’s even sworn in!

    Hmmm… Bipartisanship and cooperation are nice and all, but I just don’t know if it’s possible with the “social” right. I don’t want to run their presonal lives. They do want to run mine. How is compromise possible? Why on earth would it be desireable?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Nancy 129 It pushes buttons because they can’t admit that they’re as embarrassed about as we as a nation have been for almost five years now.

    Thanks

  • TA Dodger

    re: 132 Sure

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    He pulls no punches when he thinks someone’s a dork.

    Nobody’s harder on me than myself. But this is more or less accurate.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    TA, you make friends with someone by learning their strengths and appreciating them, not by constantly critisizing everything you disagree with.

    That’s why I take the time to answer all commenters. You make a valid point, my friend, but “they” are so far against the right wall of the gymnasium and so far away, they can’t hear any of our attempts, or maybe they’re just self-righteously ignoring us, since they’re in a position of power and don’t need to listen to us.

  • Nancy

    I always wonder what’s wrong with people who refuse to or can’t admit they were wrong. Which means I spend a lot of time wondering about the “I’m never wrong” mentality of W & his cronies like Rummy & Hairtrigger Dick. There’s a difference between loyalty to buddies, and rigidity to the point of an insane level of hubris, which W passed long ago. Problem is, he (W) can’t understand that while it takes a big man to be right, it takes a bigger, more mature & intelligent one to admit he was wrong & make changes while he still can, a level it seems unlikely W will ever attain.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks Nancy, as is evident all over every article I post, I’m constantly admitting I’m wrong, maybe that’s why not many people take me seriously…

  • Nancy

    I used to think it was a male thing; you know: like why they will never stop to ask for directions?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Nancy, the trick to not asking for directions is having a magnet in your head, like I do. I never ask for directios – until I’m so totally lost that I ask for directions. But when I do, I make sure my wife is there, so that she can see I did.

    Ain’t that a grand thing to do? Makes me just a loveable ol’ bear, right?

    Of course, it is really fun to ask directions in Hebrew. Then, the trick is understnding the answer…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    No offense Nancy-please prepare yourself I am labeling this a joke so those less fortunate know I’m making a ha ha.

    to quote Rita Moreno. “Women never get lost, they just change their minds where they want to go!”

  • Baronius

    So Jet wants increased participation, just not people who disagree with him. I sense a few definitions of my own coming on:

    Open Forum – a place for everyone but bigots. An open forum allows all voices to express themselves.

    Bigot – a person who doesn’t agree with a liberal.

    And how about this definition, which is a staple of the Democratic Party:

    International Community – Bush-bashers of every nation. The international community doesn’t include those people or nations who have actually suffered under totalitarianism. Such survivors have a lot to learn. Someone who’s seen the tanks descend on Prague in 1968 cannot understand what true brutality is. They’ve never experienced a government that taps phone calls from terrorist camps.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Baronius, go back and count how many people I’ve thanked on just this string alone, for opposing viewpoints, and then resubmit you comment.

    If there’s been any narrowminded bullshit out of anyone’s mouth it’s been yours

    You think you can do better… let’s see it.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Jet has admitted he’s wrong on numerous occasions, he’s thanked people on the left and the right for contributing, he said he loves opposing viewpoints because he loves to learn.

    Conservative – A person who sees what they want to see and can see nothing more.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    You know SteveS several people including Ruvy, whom I respect, has suggested I write a sequel to this, I may just to piss him off.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I assume you mean piss Barionus off. If you write it for that reason, you will fail.

    If you write it to show people the dangers of relabeling and show brilliant examples, and explain consequences THEN you will piss him off.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks for the advice Steve, I’ll keep that in mind.

  • http://progged.blogspot.com Progged

    “Bring back the era when the left and right came together as one nation after an election, instead of the loser trying to bring down the winner before he’s even sworn in!”

    Forgive me if I can’t believe you have any interest in that at all when your entire article is simply one long example of:

    “calling each other childish names.”

  • Joey

    Ahem… Progged #149 makes a very valid point.

    I tried… but was buried alive by the very statement I made in #103

    “Has anyone observed that entrance into the realm of insult is a one way street? The writers can exercise free will, while the readers have to endure?”

    It’s your article Jet. You take a sarcastic article and pawn it off as a serious literary achievment. Then lambast anyone who questions the intent, or perhaps doesn’t see your point.

    So I’m enduring. I don’t happen to agree, but that’s not okay in your world. You’ve let several contrasting viewpoints know this in no uncertain terms.

    I’m done… this thread is starting to resemble the top 100 guitarists of Rock and Roll…. it’s getting lengthy.

    BTW… would someone invoke Godwin’s law and be done with it.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Progged, the point was to encourage discussion, a learning process. If I’d presented a completely middle-of-the-road opinion, no one would’ve contributed their views, and I’d have learned nothing at all.

    Condemning me as childish…
    IS childish, judgmental, and very narrowminded.

    Oh dear there I go being a bigot again.

  • MCH

    “Just give the Devil’s Dictionary his due, because that’s really the bit you’re stealing.”
    – Matthew Sussman, #122

    Plagiarism is a pretty serious charge, Sussman. You got the proof?

  • http://progged.blogspot.com Progged

    “Condemning me as childish…
    IS childish, judgmental, and very narrowminded.”

    Well, that really is too much. If you insist that me stating your article is full of “calling each other childish names” is the same as condemning you as childish then I will just excuse myself, as logic obviously is not welcome here.

    For the record, I never, not once, on any occassion condemned you as childish. I simply stated that your article was full of “calling. . .childish names” (“self-serving, judgmental, hypocritical, morally ambiguous, intellectually bankrupt, long-winded and Biblically challenged”-that was just a tiny, little bit of the name calling in your article). A careful re-read and I come to the same conclusion: there is no invitation of honest dialog in the article. There is simply vitriolic rhetoric and gross hyperbole.

    And while I may find fault with the article, I never resorted to argumentum ad hominem by calling you childish. Just the content of your article.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    My friends, my sister just called me to tell me my father passed away at 6:30 this evening, so I’ll leave you to fight this out on your own for about a week.

    More when I can
    Jet

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Sorry to hear that man. Hope your family sees this as an opportunity to mend fences.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thank you Dave, until sometime next week

    My heartfelt thanks my friend

  • Scott Butki

    Jet, sorry to hear the news.

    I read this piece today and I have to ask whether you think a similar list can be made of vocabulary words twisted by the left, i.e.
    Censorship – any attempt to stop people from hearing what a liberal has to say including not carrying Air America in a city

    Hypocrisy – Anyone who shifts positions, unless they are liberals talking about shifting stances on the war in Iraq.
    etc.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Scott #157. I’ve been thinking of doing just that, but I’d get sued for causing Arch Conservative to have a heart attack, and others would come out of the woodwork to either call me a hypocrite or declare it old news.

    You just can’t win…

  • Baronius

    Jet – Condolences. Hope you’re holding up ok.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet, may you only hear good news from now on…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    #159 & 160 Thank you Baronius and Ruvy. It was a little rough, being the oldest in our family, but we got through it without too many feathers flying. That and the 4 hour drive to Pittsburgh to attend the funeral… and back

    I appreciated you good wishes, and they comfort me.

    Thanks
    Jet

  • Scott Butki

    Oh go for it anyway, Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks Scott, I’m considering it. Maybe I’ll call it Arch Conservative’s greatest Hits, as edited by Dave Nalle!

  • Dan

    Steve S. comment #95 :

    “Right wingers on this site have a very bad habit of throwing out claims and then when asked to substantiate them, just disappear. I hope I’m not the only one noticing this trend of numerous right wingers. Dan is still unable to substantiate a correlation between mental illness and orientation.”

    It’s not a habit, I just don’t bother with it since we would never agree on a source. You’d think any source that could be construed as anti-gay is somehow connected to Fred Phelps, and I have some mild reservations about the scientific integrity of a source like “Gay, Bisexual, Trans-gendered, and Lesbian Alliance for Truth and Fisting Acceptance”. Even if we can agree on neutral data, we wouldn’t on the interpretation. As an example:

    “73 percent of all suicide deaths are white males. If you look at the causes for suicide, Dan, it’s pressure. The pressure on the white male is assumed to be greater. If you look at a datasheet showing the income levels of a white male and the income levels of a black woman across the nation, you can see they aren’t even. The pressures of the white male to get into that world of privilege is much greater.”

    So while we can agree on the 73% statistic, Steve seems to think that gay men commit suicide because of evil Bible thumpers, while heterosexual white men do it because thay have a hard time managing all their cash. CEO’s probably have the highest suicide rate of all. Maybe that’s why they make so much. Hazardous duty premium. I won’t ask Steve to substantiate this claim. He probably can. ;)

    Anyway, seeing how this hypothalamustic spasm that Jet calls a post, (sincere sympathies for your loss Jet) came back up in the “Featured Columns” list, I thought I’d share some data that squares with my earlier observations. It won’t help with Steve, but then that’s to be expected.

    * Higher rates of major depression, generalized anxiety disorder and substance use or dependence in lesbian and gay youth.

    “* Higher rates of recurrent major depression among gay men.

    * Higher rates of anxiety, mood and substance use disorders, and suicidal thoughts among people ages 15 to 54 with same-sex partners.

    * Higher use of mental health services in men and women reporting same-sex partners.”

    And to Steve’s redundant braying about “Gays and lesbians face many undue hardships in this country, leading to a suicide rate among gay youth that is 5 times the national average.” (comment 65 here, and everywhere else he comments). SURRRVEY SAY’S!!:

    “* A new study of gay and lesbian youth finds that they are only slightly more likely than heterosexual youth to attempt suicide, refuting previous research that suggested much higher rates.”

    and

    “…even though sexual-minority teens are more likely than heterosexual youth to report suicide attempts, half of those reports are false…while sexual-minority men and women were far more likely to report suicide attempts than heterosexual subjects, the two groups showed similar rates of true suicide attempts… “”There’s a script we have in our culture–a ‘suffering suicidal’ script–that these kids have picked up on,”

    Steve, as a slave to his agenda, perpetuates that script.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dan, thank you for the condolences.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Now, having said that, answer me this Dan… if you can.

    Why the {expletive deleted} do you give a flying {expletive deleted} enough about this editorial if you have no {expletive deleted}ing interest in this post or my {expletive deleted} views.

    You HAVE to be some kind of {personal attack deleted}!!!

    Why you feel compelled to vent your {expletive deleted} here is a question for the Gods!.

    It’s {expletive deleted}ing obvious you aren’t going to be swayed from your {expletive deleted} views, and while I welcome all comments whether I {expletive deleted}ing agree with them or not, it’s {expletive deleted} clear that you only log in here with your useless {expletive deleted}ing comments to agravate and/or annoy

    Do us all a favor and {expletive deleted}ing write your own {expletive deleted} posts if you don’t like mine and think you can do {expletive deleted} better!

    I lovvvvvvve being my own editor…

    Love ya baby
    geez

  • Dan

    I do like your posts Jet. So far. Maybe not the way you would like them to be liked.

    I’m only responding here in my comments. It’s not a major act of aggressiveness, I’m not trying to pound a point.

    If I get called out to “put up or shut up”, I might respond. It’s actually a tribute to this post’s provocativeness, ain’t it?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    If your point is that you like my posts because you seemed to have found which buttons to push to piss me off, and that seems to be your only purpose in following me around, and that gives you some sort of perverse pleasure at watching me lose my temper here, I accept your tribute.

    My little brother loved to do the same thing.

    I intentionally write in a style to provoke INTELLIGENT comments from the extreem sides of both ends of an argument, because I learn about a subject that way, but repeatedly pressing a point that has little to do with the original post, and seemingly only to get my goat because you know I try to make it a policy to respond to all comments, seems a little childish to me.

    …but thats’ only my opinion.

  • Dan

    “If your point is that you like my posts because you seemed to have found which buttons to push to piss me off, and that seems to be your only purpose in following me around, and that gives you some sort of perverse pleasure at watching me lose my temper here”

    If writing a bombastic screed ridiculing a segment of the population causes you emotional pain when someone responds to it, perhaps you should stop. I’m not to blame for your emotional responses. I’m certainly not “following” you around. It’s bizarre you would even say such a thing.

    “My little brother loved to do the same thing.”

    must run in the family.

    …”repeatedly pressing a point that has little to do with the original post, and seemingly only to get my goat because you know I try to make it a policy to respond to all comments, seems a little childish to me.”

    I didn’t press any point. I challenged a point someone else had made, (you can blame them for veering from the subject matter) then was personally attacked as a “bigot”, had my words mis-characterized, and then taunted for it. After repeated tauntings for sources, and having my credibility demeaned, I posted a source that supports my position precisely.

    And now poor Jetsy is upset.

    I know nothing of your policy of responding to all comments. It sounds like a childish way to always have the last word to me. Not to mention that it could also be construed as “following me around”, which you so pompously flatter yourself by accusing me of doing.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I do the courtesy of acknowledging everyone who cares to comment on my posts. It’s an act of courtesy, to tell them that I’ve read and understood their point of view, instead of just ignoring them if I don’t agree, which is what you seem to be doing here… repeatedly.

    In your case I’m going to make an exception after this.

    So take this as a fond pat on the head, and a stiff swat on your ass, as I’m now sending you to bed without supper.

    (:^p~~~~~~~~~~

    Love
    Jet

  • Dan

    Ah, a tendency toward violence, as well as a willfully ignorant view of reality.

  • Dave Nalle

    Right wingers on this site have a very bad habit of throwing out claims and then when asked to substantiate them, just disappear. I hope I’m not the only one noticing this trend of numerous right wingers. Dan is still unable to substantiate a correlation between mental illness and orientation.

    Don’t put us all in the same pot with Dan. I’ll gladly substantiate anything I post here, as will some of the more sensible right-leaners. But then I’d never post anything as arrantly ridiculous as Dan has.

    Plus, even if sexual orientation WERE a function of mental illness, what business is it of ours in the first place since it does us no harm. Do we feel a need to intercede if someone has a minor OCD disorder but functions fine in society? So why do we need to meddle in the private business of those whose sexuality is different from ours. I don’t want Steve to tell me I have to have sex with men and I don’t want to force him to have sex with women.

    Dave

  • Dan

    Dave, why not read comment #164 before you blather ignorantly. Follow the link and ponder the “arrantly ridiculous” conclusions of multiple studies published in respected scientific journals of psychology.

    Once you’ve gleened that I’ve substantiated every thing I’ve said, why not come back and substantiate the mis-characterizations you’ve said of me?

    “Plus, even if sexual orientation WERE a function of mental illness,…”

    um, nothing I’ve ever claimed.

    “what business is it of ours in the first place since it does us no harm.”

    Perhaps you can tell me, It’s not my business.

    “Do we feel a need to intercede if someone has a minor OCD disorder but functions fine in society?”

    I don’t, never have.

    ” So why do we need to meddle in the private business of those whose sexuality is different from ours.”

    Again, what are you talking about? I’m anti-meddling.

    “I don’t want Steve to tell me I have to have sex with men and I don’t want to force him to have sex with women.”

    I’ve never wanted to force anyone to have sex period. I think you could get in big trouble for that.

    I’m glad you don’t want to be “put in the same pot” with me. I like my “pot”. I don’t want it cracked.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave #172, my appreciation and thanks for being so diplomatic.
    As always
    Jet

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Dave in comment 172 says:
    Don’t put us all in the same pot with Dan. I’ll gladly substantiate anything I post here, as will some of the more sensible right-leaners. But then I’d never post anything as arrantly ridiculous as Dan has.

    I don’t consider you a right winger Dave.

    In comment 164, Dan tries to trivalize my sources, by insinuating they are a gay group with an agenda. My sources are the American Medical Association, the American Pediatric Association, The American Psychological Association, The AMerican Psychoanalytical Association just to name a few.

    Dan’s sources are clearly political action groups with a clear agenda of discriminating and ostracizing legal American citizens.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Steve seems to think that gay men commit suicide because of evil Bible thumpers, while heterosexual white men do it because thay have a hard time managing all their cash. CEO’s probably have the highest suicide rate of all. Maybe that’s why they make so much. Hazardous duty premium. I won’t ask Steve to substantiate this claim. He probably can.

    My comments are still there for anybody else to read and understand. I said pressure is the primary cause of suicide. Pressure is what leads people to kill. Not every suicide is due to evil Bible thumpers, but they do create a climate of hostility which drives up the suicide rate. Not all CEO’s will succumb to pressure so not all commit suicide. A poor person can feel pressure and be driven to suicide. It’s not that hard to comprehend. There are a lot of other factors like drug use, depression, abuse, etc. that causes people to commit suicide, it’s not a blanket thing that applies to everybody. The closet is pressure. A fundamentalist family who is incapable of loving their offspring unconditionally is pressure. Being bullied in school, being victimized or taunted continually in public is pressure. Losing a million dollar client because of your mistake is pressure, the list is endless.

    It’s a simple concept, you just refuse to see it because you want condemnation from the pulpit to remain blameless for the harm it causes. Condemnation has negative and harmful consequences.

  • Dave Nalle

    In comment 164, Dan tries to trivalize my sources, by insinuating they are a gay group with an agenda. My sources are the American Medical Association, the American Pediatric Association, The American Psychological Association, The AMerican Psychoanalytical Association just to name a few.

    Damn, the gays are everywhere. Their infiltration program is complete. We might as well surrender. I’m changing my name to Bruce and moving to Australia.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dear SteveS in regards to Dave’s #177.
    Damn, now there goes the neighborhood!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave, excuse me Bruce, gee I wish I had a mustache to twirl with an evil grin. As always, thanks for lightening things up.

    Jet

  • Dave Nalle

    I always wondered if Snidely Whiplash was gay. Now I know.

    Dave

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    God I feel old to know who that is. What about Muttley, and why do you think another character was called Dick Dastardly?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Jet, if you stick around on this thread much longer, you’ll never get around to the next up-coming article on spinmeistering bullshit.

    I’ll get you started. The newest word for throwing people out of their homes and livelihoods comes from my neck of the woods – convergence

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Ruvy, as long as people like SteveS, Scott and Dave are interested enough to contribute, I feel I’ve still got something to learn from them.
    I’m also learning about human nature from people like Dan and Joey.

    I value every contribution, joke, insult, and intelligent comment. I learn from all of them.

  • Scott Butki

    I’ll stop making new comments so you can get started on your next piece.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Check yesterday’s posting in the political section Scott.

  • Dan

    Jet, here’s another lesson about human nature for you. Fair play dictates that a logical, fair minded person won’t be disuaded from his convictions by name calling, or mis-characterizations. Neither will a “gang up” of ignorant back-slappers with inflated perceptions of their ability to be humorous be effective. Only an actual substantive refutation of his views will bring him to reason. I’m still waiting.

    Originally, I had no reason to doubt Steve S’ claim of “…a suicide rate among gay youth that is 5 times the national average”. I knew that gays suffer disproportionately from mental illness, so it seemed likely that those who do suffer mental illness would have higher rates. But as I’ve researched, I now logically conclude that Steve’s “5 times” rate is purely fictional.

    The National Institute of Mental Health, (a well known hangout for religous fundamentalists),) confirms this, as well as providing a logical explanation why it is so.

    http://www.nimh.nih.gov/suicideprevention/suicidefaq.cfm

    “there are no national statistics for suicide rates among gay, lesbian or bisexual (GLB) persons. Sexual orientation is not a question on the death certificate, and to determine whether rates are higher for GLB persons, we would need to know the proportion of the U.S. population that considers themselves gay, lesbian or bisexual.” They go on to say, “In the few studies examining risk factors for suicide where sexual orientation was assessed, the risk for gay or lesbian persons did not appear any greater than among heterosexuals, once mental and substance abuse disorders were taken into account.”

    That’s kinda what I’ve been getting at. Steve will no doubt attack this source as a Fred Phelps sister organization. The irony though, is that he consulted the same website, (The National Institute of Mental Health) for his 73% white male suicide rate in comment #95, before he went on to dazzle us with his own psycho-analysis of suicidal CEO’s.

    I dunno, perhaps Steve can make a list of National mental health institutions that have been infiltrated by religous fundamentalists. Then I can change my name to Abraham and move to Austrailia. Or he could simply provide a source that backs his 5 to 1 claim from the list of institutions he threw out, without links, in comment #175.

    Dave Nalle comment #172: “…I’ll gladly substantiate anything I post here” Well, I’m waitin’. I asked you in comment #173 what claims I’ve made that are “arrantly ridiculous” as well as any rationalization for the authoritarian character flaws you went on to imply about me.

    Not gonna make good on your boast are ya.

  • Scott Butki

    Jet, what am I looking for? Can you post a link?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Why coitently Scott, click here

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Scott, you can either use the like I’ve provided above, or click my URL, and it’s the article at the very top of my site.

    Thanks for your interest…
    I think

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    And now available for only 7 box tops and $3.95 postage….Volume Two!!!! Avaliable at drugstores everywhere!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    I’ll challenge you one further, what the hell has the suicide rate-gay or straight have to do with this article. It looks like you’re just making a stupid play for attention, and to distract everyone from the actual point of this article!

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    I haven’t checked this thread in days, I really only keep up with what’s in the ‘fresh comments’ section, so I didn’t see Dan’s claim. Hello? The URL is a .gov, that would be the same group that wants to amend the constitution against gay people, and he wants me to think it’s not biased?

    I did a google search for ‘gay youth suicide rate’. Rather than just throw links back and forth forever, I recommend people do the same, check out a few sources and come to their own conclusions.

    From the university of new hampshire: gay youth suicide attempts are 3 times the average.

    From the minneapolis star tribune: gay youth at higher risk for suicide

    I would say that given the increase in gay/straight alliances in school and a growing tolerance towards the gay community overall in society, whatever the actual numbers are, would be decreasing and would be smaller than it was 20 or even 10 years ago. No thanks of course to people like Dan.

  • http://adamantsun.blogspot.com SteveS

    Here’s a link from safeyouth, an organization devoted to the well being of youth in general, it’s not biased for orientation as Dan might claim.

    It says this:
    Several state and national studies have found that gay, lesbian, and bisexual teens are more likely to seriously consider and attempt suicide than heterosexual teens.[7,8,9]

    with 7, 8, and 9 being footnotes to the state and national studies.

    If you scroll back up, Dan says that gay people are more likely to have mental health problems. The report then goes on to say:

    Why are gay, lesbian, and bisexual teens more likely to attempt suicide? The reasons for this are not entirely clear. Research suggests that discrimination due to the social stigmatization of homosexuality in our culture may have important mental health consequences.[10]

    So thanks Dan. For perpetuating the social stigmatization and diving young people to suffer mental health problems like depression and commit suicide.

    Now I’m done with this thread.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Steve: Thanks much for the research. It’ll be interesting to see what he comes back with!

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Well Dan, you’re not going to answer 192 & 193? Don’t tell me you’ve run out of smart ass remarks that have nothing to do with the subject???

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    When I log onto this site I see viewpoints from both sides and try to learn from them, when certain arch conservatives log on, they only look for validation of their own views and disregard anything else they see.

    Kinda a shame isn’t it?

    Solus mei sententia
    Jet

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Since a few of you have given me enough material for Vol. 3, I thought I’d toss this up Fresh Comments for the newly uninitiated in our little group…

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    ArchBingBat asked if the only thing I write about has to do with sexual orientation, Hmmmmmmmm?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    What kind of sad commentary on the U.S. is it today that a man can’t compfort another man without it being turned into a fag joke?

    In almost any other culture on this planet except ours, straight men kiss as a greeting. in our society women hold hands and kiss, even dance together and no one says anything.

    It’s not fair.

    Do you realize how many friends I’ve lost because to show any kind of concern or affection would be considered a “come on” instead of a sincere friend to friend bond?

    When will it end?

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    With the elections coming up soon I thought it was a good idea to remind everyone we have a tranlstion tool here.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Election time terms to bone up on kids!

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Well, I guess we can add “Stay the course” to this list and “Unelected reactionary Judges” too.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Oh, I forgot the “Homosexual agenda” as in the pushing thereof too.

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Jordan, I think you might enjoy reading this article…

  • http://canadiancinephile.com/ Jordan Richardson

    I like it! What I like more is that the religious right is dying a slow and painful death.

    :)

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Kinda ironic isn’t it, sort of what happened to heretics during the inquisition…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Time to bone up on these terms before the election kids!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    The notion of gays recruiting new homosexuals is the one that intrigues me…

    I used to write revue sketches for my little theatre group back in England, so we’ll take the mental picture of a couple of grim-looking guys in rainbow camouflage fatigues handing out flyers outside a gay bar and see where it leads us. Ah, an earnest-looking young man has just taken one of the flyers, read it briefly, and gone inside the bar. He comes face to face with a stern-looking man in shirt-sleeves sitting behind a desk.

    ‘Yes?’
    ‘I’m thinking of becoming homosexual.’
    ‘You are, are you?’ [picks up pen] ‘Name?’
    ‘Steve Costa.’
    Steve Costa? What kind of poncy straight name is that? From now on you’re Hank Goodthrust. Got that?’
    ‘Yeah, think so.’
    ‘It’s SIR to you, Goodthrust! Let’s hear it!?!’
    ‘Yes, sir.’
    ‘Good. Now. Age?’
    ‘Seventeen.’
    ‘Hmm… bit long in the tooth, but we can still work with it. Any communicable diseases? HIV, hepatitis, gonorrhea, syphilis?’
    ‘No, sir.’
    ‘Excellent. Blank canvas.’ [turns to group of men secretly listening behind a lace curtain] ‘I think we’ve got a live one here, girls. Now for the physical exam…’ [slips on latex glove] ‘Drop your pants, Goodthrust, and bend over…’

    I could continue for some time here spoofing the first 30 minutes of the movie Full Metal Jacket, but I think the result would be unperformable pretty much anywhere…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    LOL Doc. Anita Bryant started the “Recruiting” bullshit back in the 70s, but warning everyone that gay men were kidnapping little boys from playgrounds.

    Oddly enough she also said gay men were kidnapping little girls for the same reason… she sort of lost her credibility after that, but Jerry Falwell picked up the ball she dropped and ran with it, adding the lie that gays give you aids so that your infected with the homosexual gene.

    gads…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Just what the hell is YOUR definition of a liberal? Specifically and exact??????

    It seems to be an all-purpose one size fits all, but no one really knows what they mean.

    Similar words are
    Faggot-He may not be one, but if you don’t know he’s married with four kids, you can pick up manerisms that might mean he is one… even if he isn’t.

    Witch!-which means you have to prove you’re NOT one or be burned at the stake.

    I really believe that anyone the right-wing wants to attack, they simply attach the “bogeyman” stigma to, they just lump them into the catagory of “liberal”

    Those congressional “liberals” caused the stock market to crash… but which ones? Point out one of them to me, tell me their names?

    Those liberals are trying to push their immoral ways on the rest of the decent society… Can you point out to me specifically which one of the group you’re pointing to vaguely that did?

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Jet… who are you talking to?

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Myself… I’m the only one who listens to me…

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    What?

    ;-)

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    I rest my case. Even though I fratured my upper arm in four places, it’s still not in a cast. this means that it gets sore quickly, but it should be completely healed in about another 14 days.

    …that’s why you guys only hear from me every so often.

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Actually, since McCain’s using most of these words in his ads, I figured I’d get those interested in it, to brush up on their right-wing vocabulary

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    RJ! Quick go wake up Suss!!! Jet’s on line!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    It’s Saturday night, Jet. I think RJ’s too immersed in college football…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Ohio state won 16-3 and I still think the game sucked. No offensive touchdowns? Pryor’s got to stop overthinking his moves and do something on instinct or we’ll never get past Michigan!

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    “Jet. I think RJ’s too immersed in college football…” yeah those tight shiny pants get to me too…

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Well, Fresno State just beat Idaho 45-32 but they were far from convincing. Idaho are the college equivalent of last season’s Dolphins.

    American football gear does puzzle me. Those guys are just too big and burly to make stretchy pants look good…

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    point taken… forgive the pun

  • http://jetsnewsviews.blogspot.com/ Jet

    on that note I’m going to force down an OXYCODN/APAP 10/325 for the pain in my arm and try to get some sleep…

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet

    Here’s a reading assignment for out “Hope and Change”