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The Real Immigration Threat

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Most of us will publicly lament our immigration woes, but not without a disclaimer. “Look, I have no problem with immigration,” say we, “I just want people to come here legally.” This, after all, is supposed to be the sober, sane, American point of view, as we “know” that immigration is the lifeblood of the U.S.A. Personally, I can sympathize with this perspective. Western civilization has become old, tired and decrepit; it’s a mere shadow of its former self, running on fumes and on empty. Perhaps its time for it to be euthanized.

I just want it done legally.

Now I’ll transition from a wise-guy to a guy who waxes wise. You should be outraged by the pandering to the illegal alien lobby, and I’ll unabashedly say that the three most important factors in immigration policy are deportation, deportation and deportation. Still, to focus our eyes narrowly on just illegal immigration is to lament only the salt thrown into the wound while accepting the wound itself. Illegal immigration is not the problem.

It’s an exacerbation of the problem.

The real problem began with a piece of legislation titled “The Immigration Reform Act of 1965” (Ted Kennedy’s brainchild). It not only increased immigration levels from approximately 250,000 yearly to about one million, it also has created a situation wherein 85 percent of our immigrants hail from the Third World and Asia and half from Spanish-speaking countries. This was a departure from historical norms and guaranteed the ultimate destruction of our western, Anglo-American culture.

It’s really very simple. Do you want to know why we have Moslem prayers broadcast five times daily in Hamtramck, Michigan; Moslem foot baths installed in the Kansas City Airport; “Islamic Immersion” classes in a California school district; Moslems who are planning jihad against us on our own shores; and Moslems who demand an Arabic public school in NYC and Moslem dormitories at colleges? Legal immigration. Why do we have illegal immigrants brazen enough to protest in the streets and demand the rights of citizens? Legal immigration. Why do you have to press buttons to conduct business in the language of the land and why are government documents printed in foreign ones? Legal immigration. Why have we seen Mexicans in our streets burning our flag and wielding signs stating “Gringo Go Home”? Legal immigration.

“But, wait, Duke,” say some, “a couple of the problems you’ve cited involve mainly illegal immigration.” If you believe this, just ask how it is that we’ve come to tolerate offensive demands made by those who are nothing but invaders. Sure, politically correct native minds are a factor, but the truth is that these movements are facilitated by legions of people with no true allegiance to America, individuals who carry water for illegals because their patriotism is only of the ethnic variety.

The fact is that most of the folks who won’t assimilate are here legally, but citizenship papers can’t change a heart. A pious Moslem will gladly upend our culture to make way for sharia, just as an ethnic patriot of Mexican descent will subordinate our language to his own. Legality is deceptive. Slavery was legal at one time, as was cocaine, but this didn’t render the former any more moral or the latter any more healthful. A law doesn’t make a bad idea good; like an unassimilable legal immigrant, it just makes it more entrenched.

A peril of knowing history is that it robs one of blissful ignorance. A cross I bear is that I see very clear parallels between third millennium America and Rome during its waning days. For instance, let’s consider the barbarian invasions.

Peoples beyond the Roman realm certainly didn’t call themselves barbarians, but culturally and technologically they did pale in comparison to Greco-Roman civilization. And while you may have heard of these rough-hewn invaders, what you may not know is that they weren’t always uninvited guests. On the contrary, Rome often enlisted their aid to fight other barbarians, sometimes granting them lands in return; other times they just seized territory, having become accustomed to being there. This started with the Visigoths in 376 A.D., who immigrated into the empire and were allowed to stay under the condition that they defend the Danube frontier. I guess you could say they were doing jobs Romans wouldn’t do.

Then they did a job on Rome. They grew powerful enough to sack Rome itself in 410 A.D. and eventually established a kingdom in Iberia, which was once part of the Roman Empire. Ah, the law of unintended consequences.

You see, as with us, a shortage of manly power – as opposed to manpower – made the Romans all too willing to have foreigners fight for them. But power-hungry government officials were also a factor. In 429 A.D., the Roman general Bonifice enlisted the aid of the Vandals, promising them land in North Africa if they would help him vanquish Roman leaders who he believed were bent on his destruction. In a land where power was won not at the ballot box but on the battlefield, he needed to buy their swords – as opposed to their votes.

Bonifice later learned he had been tricked into believing there was a plot against his life and didn’t need his Vandal allies, but it was too late. North Africa was the breadbasket of the empire, and the Vandals licked their chops and took the fecund region for themselves. North Africa was Rome’s no more.

Eventually, most all of what had become known as the Western Roman Empire was in the hands of barbarians; this included the Italian peninsula itself, the place where the Roman Republic was born. Rome as her people had known her had vanished, and she would never rise again.

Of course, every inch of land comprised by the Roman Empire exists to this day, but the empire does not. Asia Minor still exists, but its people no longer speak Greek and are very different from those who helped give birth to western civilization. North Africa still exists, but its people no longer look to Rome, but Mecca. A nation is not defined by a land mass, but by people.

In other words, replace our population with a Mexican or Moslem one and you no longer have a western civilization, you no longer have America. You have Mexico North or Iran West.

Of course, we won’t become either of those things exactly; rather, we’re becoming the Balkans West, a cauldron of competing, motley subcultures, little de facto nations within a nation, each approaching the others with its own unique agenda and “foreign policy.” And history issues a stern warning: When lands lacking the glue of a common culture aren’t held together by an iron fist, like Marshal Tito’s in Yugoslavia, they descend into civil strife if not civil war, which is why Tito’s nation’s days were numbered when his ended. Yet, instead of changing that outdated inscription on Lady Liberty, our response is to entertain amnesty for illegals and import more Moslem refugees (such as Iraqis). Well, when the gauntlet is finally thrown down, at least it will be a fair fight.

So ironically, with war raging in Iraq, many will say that America shouldn’t be in the Middle East. What we should lament is that we’re bringing the Middle East to America. Oh, we don’t call members of our squeaky-wheel alien nations barbarians, and they don’t bear names such as Visigoths, Lombards, Vandals and Alans, but like the latter groups, they don’t want their host nation’s values and culture, just its wealth. One is left to wonder if we’ll have to become barbarians to survive.

Many palliate themselves with the notion that, by golly, after a generation or two these folks will assimilate. But why? Why would a person who is encouraged to hyphenate himself (fill-in-the-blank-American), who is not pressured to conform to our culture or learn our language, who is so puffed up with ethnic pride that he ascribes superiority to his “native” land while viewing the one that suckles him with disdain, ever contemplate assimilation? Never mind, we know the answer.

So, assimilation? Sure, but we are the ones being assimilated. And if you think it’s bad now, wait until 70 million more Mexicans and Moslems strengthen us with their diversity.

Theoretically, we could still right the ship, but there’s a formidable psychological stumbling block. We’ve been inured to invasion, sedated with the supposition that immigration is as American as baseball and apple pie. But there is nothing at all American about support for policies that guarantee the destruction of America.

The FBI just foiled a terrorist plot involving an attack on Fort Dix, NJ, one illustrating the nature of our problem well, as three of the suspects are here illegally.

And three are here legally.

Were it not for the Immigration Reform Act of 1965, we wouldn’t have to worry about Moslem terrorism on our soil. We wouldn’t be beset by ultra-violent, terrorist-enabling gangs such as MS-13, either. You see, these folks would presently be where their hearts are – in their homelands.

So don’t ask me why I won’t give a nod to legal immigration as I oppose the illegal variety. You might as well ask why I won’t choose a slow death over a quick one.

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About Selwyn Duke

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    The bill you say kept America clean for the White Anglo-Saxon Protestants in America was the bill that the Immigration Act of 1965 reformed.

    That bill agreed to by a combination of nativist bigots and labor unions shut the door on the swindling kikes, the greasy dagos and Greeks, the oily Armenians, Turks and Lebanese and all the other “trash” the nativist bigots in America wanted to keep out. And these are the precise terms the nativist bigots used in their propaganda to pass this bill to shut America’s doors to immigrants.

    I know this because my father, his siblings and grandmother arrived in the United States just months before it was to go into effect.

    One of the results of this bill was that all those swindling kikes running away from Hitler had to run somewhere else… Most of them couldn’t, you see,- nobody wanted them. But that is not your problem, is it? Of course not!!

    Now don’t get me wrong. I live in Samaria, in Israel, and would not dream of telling Americans how to run their country. I left because the American “dream” was becoming a nightmare of assimilation to me. But this is also the reason I tell all my Jewish compatriots to get the hell out of your country. The American dream is about to turn to a nightmare for them.

    If my Jewish compatriots do come home, you won’t have all those swindling kikes to deal with anymore. Think of how good that would be!!

    Now, if you Americans would get your damned noses out of our affairs, we could bring some order to this chaotic place…

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Hey, I’ve got an idea. Let’s go right to the real source of the problem – jobs. If we didn’t need workers to fill jobs in industries like construction and fast food we wouldn’t need illegals. So let’s just stop building houses and eating and maybe the evil aliens will just magically go away.

    Dave

  • B. Schulz

    At last, somebody who actually understands history! And leave it to the critics to not be able to understand the difference between immigrants who want to come here to be part of the “American Experience” and those who want to change America into their foreign land. To welcome one and want to keep the other out is not bigotry or nativism, it is in fact fighting the bigotry of others who wish impose their way on a free society. The writing on the Statue of Liberty does not say “come to America and recreate you culture here while forcing your neighbors to cater to you and your beliefs”.

    And there are many other good reasons that we should be enforcing our immigration law besides those mentioned in the article. First, Americans have the right to protect our environment against over-population. U.S. Citizen born population growth has stabilized. Our population growth now comes from immigration, much of which is illegal. This illegal growth has driven development related destruction of our environment into high gear. Buildable land in the Western U.S. has become scarce, forcing people to build on marginal wild lands. In the Midwest our farm land is disappearing at an alarming rate. The growing power needs of our cities are being met with proposals to run power lines across national forests, grasslands, and wilderness areas. Animals once common are disappearing due to habitat loss. Water levels in western reservoirs are falling, the land around Phoenix is sinking due to water table depletion, and the Colorado River almost disappears at the Mexican border. The west is running so low on water people are planning to divert water from the Great Lakes to fix the problem. Imagine the environmental damage across the northern U.S. that would cause, all due to population growth. And more people burn more fossil fuels. When global warming eliminates our glaciers the loss of run-off means even less water. Meanwhile, environmental groups laugh it off by blaming sprawl on rich home buyers, conveniently forgetting that someone had to buy their old place or they would not have been able to move.

    Second, our illegal immigration is made up primarily of low-skilled workers. There was a study done by Robert Rector that states that the average low-skill household received $22,449 per year more in benefits than it paid in taxes — $32,138 in benefits, excluding public goods, minus $9,689 in taxes. To make matters worse, if you take the U.S. average per capita wage and compare it to the average per capita GDP you find that the average worker increases our economy by about $22,000 more than the wages paid to them. So the entire economic benefit of the Illegal Immigrant residing in the U.S. is eaten up by the benefits paid to the Illegal Immigrant. Worse, because according to George Borjas, working unskilled Immigrants (almost exclusively made up of Illegal Immigrants) result in the transfer of $160 billion in wealth from the lowest paid of U.S. Workers to their Employers and the users of services provided by those workers. The Rich get richer and the Poor get poorer. And with Amnesty the U.S. Citizens in the Middle Class and the Poor get to pay the bill.

    Third, in the occupations most effected by illegal immigration The Pew Hispanic Center estimated that U.S. Citizens and Legal Residents fill three quarters of all agricultural jobs, 83 percent of office and house cleaning positions, 86 percent of construction jobs and 88 percent in food preparation. There are more unemployed U.S. Citizens and Legal Residents (8.1 million not counting teens looking for seasonal work) than there are working Illegal Immigrants (6.3 million) per U.S. Government Statistics. Wages for all unskilled labor are down an average of 8% per George Borjas thanks to Illegal Immigration. We owe it to those U.S. Citizen families whose lives are being destroyed by unemployment to deport people who have illegally taken their jobs from them by undercutting their wages.

    And finally, Illegal Immigration perpetuates poverty in the third world by keeping the development that would solve the Illegal Immigrant problem in the U.S. In the past, when the U.S. had more jobs than there were workers, those excess jobs were exported to other countries. A few decades ago that process resulted in the economic development of Korea, Taiwan, and the other economic powers of the pacific called the “Five Tigers”. At no point did their development make the U.S. economically weak. Now let’s take Mexico for an example. Per the Pew Hispanic Center six million Mexicans have illegally immigrated to the U.S., over three million of which are working. Per the CIA World Fact Book the 2006 GDP (Gross Domestic Product) of Mexico was $741.5 billion and the Labor Force numbered 38 million. That means that the average GDP per working person was $19,513. If the U.S. had exported three million jobs to Mexico, the six million illegal immigrants would have stayed home at home, and we would have pumped $59 billion in wages into the Mexican economy if they were paid at the average GDP rate. In the U.S. economy approximately 57% of our GDP is made up of wages. What this means is that wages generate business, which in turn generates more wages, which in turn generate more business and so on. Assuming this same job multiplier effect for Mexico means that an additional $59 billion in wages added to the Mexican economy would increase the GDP of Mexico by more that $103 billion or 14%. But instead, greedy people want a continued source of cheap labor and like true misers they what to keep economic development in their own backyard while denying it to other countries. So the very act of supporting illegal immigration chokes off the very development that would solve the illegal immigration problem.

    And to those who feel that local authorities should choose not to help enforce Immigration Law, then I would ask what other Federal Laws should we choose not enforce? Maybe you feel we should not enforce anti-discrimination law? And what about freedom of the press? And do you want to stop enforcing Title IX? And of course there are those pesky anti-pollution laws and the Endangered Species Act. If you start enforcing only those laws you agree with and ignore those you do not, you loose there moral authority to expect others to enforce the laws you do like. So if you want local law enforcement to help protect the Wolves in Minnesota, to help protect the Alligator in Florida, to help protect the Spotted Owl in Oregon, then you need to help protect your fellow countrymen from the lowering of wages, the increase in taxes, and the identity theft that comes with letting Illegal Immigrants stay in the U.S. without fear of deportation.

  • Jerry

    Mr. Duke may tend towards extreme nativism, but he makes some good points that can’t be answered by Ruvy’s emotional outburst or Dave’s over-simplification (a concept he eschews).

    Face it, Ellis Island it is not, and to try and characterize it as such is foolishness

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Jerry, what you see in this article is oversimplification of the most extreme sort. The ‘all immigrants are bad’ approach doesn’t fly in light of the realities of legal and illegal immigration. The overwhelming majority of immigrants DO want to assimilate and DO learn English and are in fact among the harshest critics of those who try to promote anti-americanism for political reasons.

    He’s making the far too common mistake of taking tiny groups like La Raza which really only have a following in California, and even there it’s not too large, and trying to apply their anti-americanism to all immigrants, and that’s grossly unfair.

    Here in Austin we had a naturalization ceremony last week where hundreds of immigrants from all over the world – only about a third from Mexico – swore allegiance to the US and the Constitution. They did it in English after having passed a test in English which included the usual questions on US history and law. Hell, they probably know more about our government and history than most high-school graduates.

    Frankly, I’m proud to live in a country which people want to come to, and much less proud to share it with those who conceal a cowardly racism under the same old nativist rhetoric.

    Dave

  • B. Schulz

    Dave – virtually ALL of the major U.S. cities of the American Southwest are running out of water due to population growth. Many in that part of the country want to tap the Great Lakes to fix their problem. It’s not bad enough that they destroy their own ecologies with overpopulation, now they want to destroy the upper midwest to fix their problems so they can let in even more people. Yet you imply that people who want to limit immigration to protect our environment as people “who conceal a cowardly racism under the same old nativist rhetoric”. For those of us in that part of the country who will be stepped on by those same immigrants as they come looking for water, I would say that those who support excessive immigration, especially the illegal kind are no better than strip miners who leave environmental devestation behind, polluters who gave us Love Canal and the burning of the Cayahoga River, and the smelting industry that gave us Acid Rain.

  • Jerry

    Dave –

    I honestly can appreciate your hopeful idealism, and the reality that there are truly good immigrants who want to become American’s in a genuine way; I really want to believe the way you do on this issue but I can’t.

    The problems are growing exponentially, and it is far too complex of a problem to write off so easily.

    When my ancestors immigrated from Denmark and Italy through Ellis Island. They retained some of their national identity and cultural characteristics, but their desire to become fully American was the strongest force at work.

    Overall, we are not seeing this with Mexican and Latin American immigrants anymore, and most likely not with Muslims, if the European pattern follows suit here.

    Mr. Schulz is bringing up valid concerns as well, and 50 other people could bring up different concerns pertaining to this issue. The nativist racist line will only go so far. It is especially shallow as I read daily accounts of criminal activity in my area committed by illegal’s including the home invasion, robbery and shooting of a 13 yr. old girl this past weekend.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Schulz. Could you list for me some Southwestern US cities which have water shortages which have not had them on a regular basis for years?

    I did a little research for you. Tom Babcock the water conservation coordinator for Phoenix says they face no problems with a water shortage and have had a decline in usage because of conservation measures in the last 20 years.

    No water shortages here in Texas, of course. We’ve had extraordinary levels of rain and are expecting more as the year goes on. Plus all of our major cities get their water from large river systems which are all running high.

    Again, the problem comes down to California just like the problem with ‘bad’ illegals seems to. But the problem in California is mostly water management. They’ve had record rains in recent years because of El Nino, but have made little effort to conserve or make use of the extra water. The problem in California isn’t that there’s too little water, it’s that it’s in the wrong places as more and more population moves into the more arid areas.

    Consider the issue of population density. Israel has one of the highest population densities in the world at over 300 people/sq mile. It’s also basically a desert – far more arid than California overall. By comparison California’s population density is about 220 overall. Yet through the use of technology, conservation and a water management plan dating back to the 1950s, Israel expects to have substantially more water for its population by 2020 than they have now, and they have a hell of a lot less to work with as far as resources than California does.

    Dave

  • Jerry

    Dave – I have recently had the opportunity to spend a couple of weeks working in Las Vegas. They are one non-Cal desert city facing water shortages. The mighty Colorado and Lake Mead are being stretched thin as upstream users suffering limited supplies aren’t willing to let go of as much.

    Another is Albuquerque. Their diminishing aquifer has resulted in the need to build a tunnel under the Continental Divide in order to tap into the San Juan river which runs through the NW corner of NM, and this is not a permanent solution.

    Climatologists believe the SW US will continue in a long term drought which will only be exacerbated by over-population.

    See links: USBR & US Water News

  • http://adreamersholiday.blogspot.com Lee Richards

    The U.S. in 50 years will have replaced the cultural, political, racial and socio-economic identity it has forged over the past 50-75 years with a new one, because of immigration.

    It’s not racist or nativist to point out that fact. Whether it’s a welcome change depends, of course, on individual values and views of how America should evolve.

  • B. Schulz

    Dave – Cities with reported water problems:
    Las Vegas – In order to continue to grow, they must try to get water rights from a nearby valley – and send the ranchers packing. And guess what – they are not waiting to see if they get the water, they are just continuing to grow – per 60 minutes story.
    San Diego – Experienced ground water contamination with the threat of reducing them to Colorado River Water as their main source of water. At last report they were continuing to dodge the bullet, but for how long? – story originally reported in the 1990’s but buried since then.
    Los Angeles – Trying to access more Northern California water as they are reaching the limits of their supply – reported in the national news about two years ago.
    Phoenix – Reported in ecology textbooks as having sections experiencing as much as an 18 foot drop in the level of the land due to depletion of the water table. Recent reports stated that the situation has been stabilized with the improvement in river diversion strategy but for how long?
    Colorado River – Reservoirs have been falling significantly – Scientists have been blaming it on drought even though no one can seem to quite figure out where the drought is.
    Denver/Northern Texas – Here is what the Minneapolis Star Tribune published on 3/15/07: “The need to protect the Great Lakes water supply is real. Over the past three decades, there have been proposals to use water from the Great Lakes to feed a coal-slurry pipeline in Wyoming, to replenish the depleted Ogallala aquifer stretching from Texas to the Dakotas, and to ship nearly 800 million gallons of Lake Superior water to Asia. The pressures to tap the Great Lakes, which hold 20 percent of the world’s surface fresh water supply, will only intensify as global warming and growing populations increase the demand for fresh water across North America.”
    Israel – a poor example because they could supply their water needs with desalinization plants if need be where that is a little difficult to do in areas of the U.S. far away from any ocean. Also, last time I checked, Israel was not know for the wild, preserved lands that have been lightly touched by human hands. If your proposal is to use the land like Isreal does why not just propose that all our national forests be cut down and converted to housing for Illegal Immigrants. It would be a lot more honest than overpopulating our cities until the surrounding forests collapse due to water diversion and human encroachment. I do not know about you but I am old enough to have seen countless acres of wild lands turned into cities – camps for children lost to development as they are surrounded by housing and the land becomes too valuable to keep as camping lands. The Keys Deer would be extinct today if it were not for a Boy Scout Camp that gave them refuge. How soon before someone comes in and tries to take away the camp away from them because there is no where else the deer can live due to over population?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    I, for one think it’s good. The society that doesn’t evolve stagnates and withers.

    As a bicultural, bilingual, dual citizen of both the USA and Mexico, I see good in both (as well as bad, of course) and think that a melding of those two cultures has great potential.

    I don’t see the US culture disappearing in such a blend, either. Rather, I see it continuing to be the dominant element, but with a delicious leavening of Latin spice.

    The foreshadowing of it has already happened here in Miami, and it’s quite interesting and exciting (though not perfect, by any means). It does work, however.

  • STM

    Forget illegal immigratuion. You really will be bilingual when Australia becomes the next frontier of the US and the 51st-58th states. You won’t have enough space in the corner of your flag for any more stars and will likely have to revert to the Union Jack just to avoid problems. Ah, I can see it now. Multi-culturalism at its most bizarre.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Talk about adding spice, mate!

  • STM

    And with our water shortage, everyone will be forced to drink beer instead. Oh, wait …

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    My, my,

    I see that Brother Selwyn has not been back to defend the White Christian America immigration bill of 1922 that his article so extolled (by excoriating the Immigration Reform Act of 1965), and the rest of you have contented yourselves with muttering about water shortages and a little bit of “Latin spice” in America’s population.

    Let me pour myself a bit of bubbly (water) while I comment on immigration to America and on population trends drinking up resources – two different issues entirely..

    By and large, Dave’s comment #5 is an appropriate response for someone defending the Immigration Reform Act of 1965 who hasn’t felt the discriminatory lash of the policy it reformed. My late cousin Raquel was forced to go la Havana in 1928 rather than New York, when she fled General Pilsudski’s dictatorship in 1928. It was only in 1955 that she was finally able to get to America.

    Just a quick note to Stan. We all know that for decades your had a “white Australia” policy to keep the mob from Asia from snuffing out that little white colony commonwealth of convict Irishmen, Scotsmen, and (dare we say it?) Englishmen, in a sea of yellow.

    But the topic was America and its immigration problems, so let’s leave off of Oz.

    First off, if you Americans insist on moving to deserts (like LA and Los Vegas) and installing swimming pools, you WILL have water shortages and you WILL eventually drink up Lake Superior. Don’t blame immigrants who want better (or bigger) meals than they can get in Honduras or Mexico from joining you there, if that is where there is money to be made.

    Second off, America has this big calling card in New York Harbor telling the world how she will gather in the tempest tossed and masses yearning to breathe free. Actually, that is your real problem. So long as the New Colussus remains standing in New York Harbor, it will be the symbol to the world, the beacon of hope, however false, that America represents to the world. And it will draw people to your shores, whether they come in legally or illegally.

    That calling card is dramatic. It is the best advertising symbol in the world, next to Santa Claus. Something dramatic would have to happen to that calling card before people would view your country differently. Just so you know, there is a 1,500 year old Jewish prophecy that when this Colossus does fall, your nation will be finished.

    And now, I wish you all a good morning from the mountains of Samaria. Business calls.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Stan, I see that your ongoing determination to put small Union Jacks in corners everywhere shows no sign of flagging.

    …Ouch!

  • STM

    Mate, someone has to pick up the ball and run with it. You blokes seem to spend most of your time under the woodwork these days, looking at the ground. Perhaps we’ve taken up your cause, and one day you’ll all come back on side.

    In the meantime, there are heathens and barbarians to convert. They know nothing about good flag design and need to told.

  • Dr Dreadful

    You blokes seem to spend most of your time under the woodwork these days, looking at the ground.

    I thought you were about to say that “us blokes” spend most of our time these days standing forlornly in the centre of a large grass oval, watching five small pieces of wood fly in all directions, courtesy of a grinning Australian 22 yards away.

    But either description will do.

  • STM

    Yes, cricket and rugby. Two of the great civilising legacies of the Poms. Time for us all to take that civilisation into the heartland of the heathens and the great unwashed. I believe you are currently living among them.

    You must join me on July 4 in offering heartfelt commiserations on the anniversary of their great mistake in breaking away from the British Empire.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    You must join me on July 4 in offering heartfelt commiserations on the anniversary of their great mistake in breaking away from the British Empire.

    Ahem.

    You Pom/Aussie blokes just can’t let go of that, can you?

    Might there be a certain element of damaged pride involved?

  • Dr Dreadful

    See that bulge in the side of Stan’s face, Clav? That’s his tongue, shoved firmly into his cheek.

    Personally, I intend to enjoy some barbecued hot dogs and burgers on July 4th while watching a nice fireworks display at the local high school – or maybe whiz around on the lake. Any excuse for a day off work is good, I say.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Oh, I know, Dr. D.

    I just enjoy needling SurferDude from time to time (as does he, me).

  • Dr Dreadful

    I realise that… I enjoy doing the same to Archie occasionally. The difference is that because Arch has no sense of humor (at least none that he’s exhibited on here) it almost seems a bit less honorable, kind of like pulling the wings off flies.

  • Jerry

    Clavos #12 –

    In regards to immigration much of your understanding is based on observation of the Cuban experience in Florida. Dave also mentions his observations of the Austin area. These are pretty limited perspectives of the issue.

    You could tell me far more about Cuban Americans than I could begin to state, but one thing I know for sure is that most of them despised the leftist policies of Castro.They longed for and acquired a true appreciation for America and it’s freedoms, and are certainly not representative of most immigrants of Hispanic origin.

    The real problem is one of a conflict of world views and political/social philosophy, not national origin, race or ancestry. Under the current atmosphere the country is unable to assimilate (conform to the mind-set that cultivates interest in national survival)all the newcomers.

    What is happening now in many other parts of the country is the co-opting of immigrants by leftists salivating over the potential voter bloc at their disposal. Dave is correct to state that it is originating with La Raza and others primarily on the left coast, but it is a growing movement that will likely bring some bitter leaven along with the “latin spice”.

  • Nancy

    Dang it, I’m gonna have to learn Ozzie slang now, too? And I just got through memorizing ‘yo quiero Taco Bell…’

  • Nancy

    I like the incredible diversity of the DC area. I can find more varieties of ethnic restaurants here then I can in NYC, from Afghani to Zimbabwean. I can shop for saris or sarongs. I can celebrate everything from Eid to Cinco de Mayo to Holi to Christmas & then some. Alas, people being people, when they come they don’t leave their problems or dirty laundry behind, & the criminal element is usually in the forefront of any migration. It’s nice that people want to come here, but we can’t absorb all of them, least of all those that can’t even be bothered to come here legally, regardless of how desperate their circumstances are.

    I’ve never heard any such bosh as what Ruvy quotes about the Statue of Liberty, but I DO think it’s about had its time & should be removed & melted down. I’m willing to risk it; nothing can happen to us worse than what BushCo has already inflicted on us to ruin us, more than they already have. They couldn’t have done better if they’d been hand in glove with Osama bin Laden to destroy the US.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Jerry writes:

    In regards to immigration much of your understanding is based on observation of the Cuban experience in Florida.

    The Cubans have long since been outnumbered by all the rest of the Latinos arriving here on a daily basis. This gives us a true melange of all of the various Latin cultures, as well as substantial communities of Europeans, including a significant Brit population and the largest group of Russians in the US outside of New York’s Brighton Beach.

    The net result is, we have the most diversified city in the USA these days, and its downsides are more attributable to sheer growth and the sharp upward valuation in property values, rather than the fact that we have a majority (51%) foreign born population.

    My understanding of immigration in America also comes from having lived the decade of the nineties in South Texas, another majority foreign (descent, not born) area.

    Also, my own birth in and long residence in Mexico, as well as having spent an entire career working for LatAm companies here and abroad, I think gives me a pretty good perspective on the implications of Latin immigration.

    You say:

    What is happening now in many other parts of the country is the co-opting of immigrants by leftists salivating over the potential voter bloc at their disposal.

    This is true, but ignores the fact that the vast majority of those folks immigrated precisely because they saw the good in the American culture and society; most of them are decidedly NOT easy targets for those who are bent on destroying American values.

    This includes the vast majority of my paisanos, the Mexicans.

  • Jerry

    Clavos-

    I stand corrected on my assumption about your understanding and knowledge. But again, the effects of immigration are unique to each region and the fact that you have diversity and other dynamics at work in your city does not mean that it works elsewhere. That would be like saying socialism works so well in Scandinvia it should also be working in France.

    We can laugh, joke and ignore what’s happening, toss our worries into the bin of our sacred political ideologies which will solve all problems, but we view illegal immigration with a wink and warm fuzzies to our own peril.

  • Locke

    You know what I think is funny?… Is how everyone is so damn flustered about deporting the illegal immigrants that have already been living here for a time being and how we should tighten down on the deportation system. What we should be doing is focusing on border patrol because that is where it all starts. That is the real issue.

  • STM

    Doc: “I intend to enjoy some barbecued hot dogs and burgers on July 4.”

    Yum. American hot dogs. The Yanks Down Under always throw their own celebrations and invite everyone along. I always go to a mate’s place as he always bakes a dirty great turkey in his Weber and cooks up piles of hot dogs.

    I usually take beer, as he insists on serving people that bloody Budweiser stuff (which is OK once you’re drunk. Very drunk).

    I also always take the special “sliding doors” US flag I had made, which has a Union Jack in the corner instead of the stars. It’s the one they would have had had history been kinder to them all those years ago. He hangs it up next to the other one for a day.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    “sliding doors”??

  • STM

    Clav: Haven’t you seen Sliding Doors, that Gwyneth Paltrow movie where two different scenarios are presented for her life, depending on what course of action she takes. Literally, the title revolves around the sliding door of a train in London, and the path the heroine chooses. Good stuff.

    Just imagine, as I say, the result for America had history been kinder to her all those years ago:)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Just imagine, as I say, the result for America had history been kinder to her all those years ago

    Ahhh, Stan.

    Just because you’ve proved yourself to be such a fair dinkum mate, I’ll let that slide by without skewering you in the manner in which you so richly deserve.

    But don’t push it. :>)

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    And you’re still “thricing”, mate…

  • STM

    BTW, I’ve just realised MBD is a total imbecile, rather than just an imbecile.

  • Sisyphus

    “Moslem foot baths installed in the Kansas City Airport…”

    Foot baths at the airport? What do you have against clean feet? There are chapels installed in most major airports, too. I don’t pray in airport chapels but neither do I begrudge anyone who does. American culture — every modern culture — is continually changing, evolving. It cannot be preserved like some ancient relic because to do so would kill it. And besides, culture is a two-way street. For example, you’ll likely find a Starbucks or Pizza Hut in major airports of Saudi Arabia. And I’m sure that a few Saudis are as bothered by the American cultural invasion into their home as some Americans are bothered by Muslim foot baths in the Kansas City airport.

  • STM

    Yeah, I agree. It’s no big deal. America is bigger than that.

  • Jerry

    I’d rather have foot baths than blood baths, I guess we should succumb to their demands.

  • Dr Dreadful

    BTW, I’ve just realised MBD is a total imbecile, rather than just an imbecile.

    Whatever gave you that impression?

  • Dr Dreadful

    “Sliding Doors”…

    Good movie. I think I need to buy the DVD, having accidentally recorded over my wife’s VHS copy.

    Anyway. (Stay on topic, Doc.) I found a really great book a couple of months ago called “What If…?” It’s a collection of hundreds of different essays by distinguished historians looking at what they think might have happened if certain tipping points of history had gone a different way. For instance, what if the Greeks hadn’t won at Salamis? What if Ogadai Khan hadn’t croaked just as the Mongol hordes were poised to flatten Europe? What if Drake hadn’t trashed the Spanish Armada? What if Lee’s “lost order” hadn’t been lost?

    And yes, Stan, what if Washington hadn’t had such incredible good luck with the weather, hadn’t managed to sneak his army away from Brooklyn Heights and that snazzy Union Jack got to stay on the American flag? (That’s just one scenario. The book does point out that there were so many points at which the War of Independence could have gone another way that it boggles the mind.)

    Sliding doors indeed.

  • Zedd

    On the issue of diversity, since the enormous influx of Mexican illegal immigrants, diversity has been compromised more than any time in our history.

    The percentages if increase of immigrating groups is significantly tilted.

    Mexican illegal immigration is not enhancing diversity in America, its diminishing it.

  • Zedd

    Selwyn

    Your premise is that what makes America good is the Western component. That is an unconsidered conclusion.

    What Makes America great is the the talent and diversity from all over the world that has hit these shores.

    How many Jewish scientist have promoted this country’s sciences? How many Asians are now propelling us to another level scientifically. We get to be number one at the olympics not be cause of the Western contribution. We get to be best in entertainment not because of the West. We are good because we have some of the best who persue our membership.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Mexican illegal immigration is not enhancing diversity in America, its diminishing it.

    Not necessarily. You’re making the mistake of looking at Mexicans as a homogenous group, when in fact there’s a surprising amount of ethnic and cultural diversity.

    Case in point: my wife works in a hospital in an area where there is a significant amount of Latino immigration. Several times she has addressed a Hispanic-looking patient in Spanish, only to be met with blank looks. Turned out the patients knew no Spanish. They spoke Mayan, Nahuatl or some other native language.

  • Zedd

    Dr

    I have lived in TX for over 30yrs and have never encountered a person who speaks a Native American language exclusively. That was a fluke.

    What I meant by my statement is that we had Brits, various Africans, Chinese and Japanese then German, Irish, Italians, Polish then Cubans, Koreans, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Laotians, along with a steady influx of Mexicans. What we have now is an extreme influx of ONE group. The variance between the levels of immigration was not that great. The education level of this enormous group is also problematic. While the slums of the last century contained the poor and uneducated, there were also great scientists and artists who we benefited from. From Asian and late African immigrants, the educated class tended to immigrate.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    I have lived in TX for over 30yrs and have never encountered a person who speaks a Native American language exclusively. That was a fluke.

    There is no one in Texas who is native to the state who speaks a native American language either exclusively or at all unless they learned it in an academic setting. All native tribes in Texas were forcibly removed from the state in 1889 and since that time only non-tribal individuals and very recently a small number of tribal groups have moved into the state. There were no recognized tribal lands in Texas until the 1980s when several tribes from outside the state bought small amounts of land and subsequently sued to have them recognized.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Dave,

    She’s erroneously referring to indigenous Mexicans as Native Americans, in response to Dr. D’s point in his comment #44.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    There are indigenous groups in Mexico which do not speak Spanish; e.g.: the Tarahumaras in Chihuahua. There are others in both Northern and Southern Mexico.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Just another example of why the term ‘native american’ is so damned ambiguous.

    Dave

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    And incorrect to boot, since they too, came from elsewhere (though long before Europeans).

    There actually are NO “native americans”. The Americas were the last continents to be settled by human beings, and EVERYONE came from elsewhere, primarily Asia.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    It’s not that I WANT to call this article “bigoted from start to finish”…

    …it’s just that the English language contains no descriptive phrase that is more accurate.

  • MCH

    “Just another example of why the term ‘native american’ is so damned ambiguous.”
    – Dave Nalle

    Not nearly as ambiguous as the term “indian”, Nalle, since Columbus thought he’d landed in India.

    ———————————-

    “And incorrect to boot, since they too, came from elsewhere…”
    – Clavos

    I think 13,000 years is long enough to be considered native.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    It’s not that I WANT to call this article “bigoted from start to finish”…

    …it’s just that the English language contains no descriptive phrase that is more accurate.

    Quoted for Truth.

    Quite a few of the comments fit there, too.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Not nearly as ambiguous as the term “indian”, Nalle, since Columbus thought he’d landed in India.

    Let’s give Columbus a break. He didn’t actually discover America, he discovered Cuba. And because he mistook it for Japan he called the people there Indians, not knowing that Japan wasn’t part of India. See, it all makes sense.

    The application of the term ‘indians’ to the inhabitants of north america came much later and was not really Columbus’ fault.

    I say we stick with what the Vikings called them and refer to them as ‘skralings’.

    Dave

  • MCH

    “I say we stick with what the Vikings called them and refer to them as ‘skralings’.”

    I disagree, Nalle. Although it doesn’t surprise that you would domineer and try to control what SOMEONE ELSE should be called.

    Personally, I refer to a person as whatever they themselves prefer to be called. In my cousin’s case, who is 11/16 Blackfoot, he prefers “Native American,” so that’s what I refer to him as.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    In my cousin’s case, who is 11/16 Blackfoot, he prefers “Native American,” so that’s what I refer to him as.

    He doesn’t prefer “Blackfoot?”

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    I read a Lakota author once who preferred to be called “Indian” over “Native American.”

    “I’m not thrilled that Columbus thought he was in India, but I can live with it,” he said. “I’m just happy he didn’t think he was in the Virgin Islands.”

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    You call them Indigenous Mexicans in Mexico, we call them Native Americans in America since they are native to the Americas.

    Following your reasoning, no one is native to Europe or Asia. The only continent with natives is Africa…. sigh.

    Ehhhm, Clavos indigenous means NATIVE. Blush…..
    Are you under a lot of personal stress. You seem to be loosing it. Where’s our anal kook. We miss him, sort off (snicker).

    Off course everyone knows that there are people who still speak their native language in MEXICO. That is not the point of our discussion now is it Clav.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Zedd,

    See my comment #60 here.

  • Zedd

    Clav

    Got ya! No luv lost Bud.

    Get some rest though. You were a little sloppy this round. Next time I will expect more smart alec comments from you. Discussionsn of a more personal nature have a way of draining you though.

    Until next time…..

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Re #60:

    Please don’t patronize me, Zedd.

  • Dr Dreadful

    Just to drop the proverbial lighted match into the grass:

    I read somewhere that the term “Indians” to describe the native peoples of the Americas derives not from Columbus’s mistaken belief that he’d reached India (he wasn’t that much of an idiot and realized pretty quickly that wherever it was he’d landed, it wasn’t the Indies), but from a corruption of the French word “indigène”, meaning “native”.

  • Zedd

    Clavos

    I was very serious you goober.

    What is wrong with you these days?

  • Zedd

    Dr.

    Columbus was headed to the East, had never been there, he didn’t know… Also why would he attribute a french word to describe those people at a politically competitive time instead of using a Spanish or Portuguese word? Would he not have called them indegene people instead if Indians?

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    The Spanish word is “indigenas” (plural) and “indigena” (singular), which is obviously from the same root as the English and French words.

    Since Columbus was an Italian sailing under the patronage of Spain, it would have been unlikely that he would choose a Portuguese word.

  • http://www.50centsaday.net walt

    Liberalism supporting the criminal…what else is new?

    In case you missed it, CT just recently joined several other states where illegals can attend a college by paying the in-state tuition rate for that college…something a native born American cannot do.

  • Zedd

    Your back!!

  • Dr Dreadful

    There’s one on every thread: the guy who wants to talk about eeevul librulz no matter what the topic.

  • Zedd

    These guys matured during a time when exaggeration and distortions of the “other side” were the only way to have political dialogue. A clear and pointed discussion on the state of the nation or world was/is not on the agenda. Just playing with the electorate’s minds. Its those who were not versed in civic matters prior to this on slot that have absorbed the brainwashing the most.

    They think they are discussing politics.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    To jump back to the issue of what to call people, every Indian I know – including my wife and the chief who lives around the corner – prefers to be referred to by the name of their tribe, not by a general term like ‘indian’ or ‘native american’. There’s no pride associated with something so meaningless as where your ancestors were born.

    Nice to see that sarcasm continues to be utterly lost on MCH, btw.

    Dave

  • S.T.M

    Zedd wrote: “These guys matured … ”

    You got that one wrong, dear Zedd. We never did, you know we never did, and we’ve never claimed to have done so.

    It’s a gross untruth, and a dreadful slur on our collective dreadful* characters. We are growing old disgracefully, and my, isn’t that a wonderful thing.

    *apologies to the Doc.

  • S.T.M

    Doc wrote: “I read somewhere that the term “Indians” to describe the native peoples of the Americas derives not from Columbus’s mistaken belief that he’d reached India … “.

    I reckon he did think that, but was gobsmacked when he discovered he couldn’t get a decent vindaloo. My favourite Indian restaurant in Sydney, BTW: “Geronimo’s”. Fair dinkum.

    Couldn’t get away with that in the States, I bet.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    I like the way Jimmy Buffett puts it:

    “Growing older, but not up.”

  • S.T.M

    That’s what my wife reckons too.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/clavos Clavos

    Stan sez:

    My favourite Indian restaurant in Sydney, BTW: “Geronimo’s”. Fair dinkum.

    Couldn’t get away with that in the States, I bet.

    There’s a Mexican restaurant in Atlanta that has a Mexican name, but is owned and staffed by Indians (the kind from Inja).

    Pretty good food, but too much curry. :>)

  • S.T.M

    I bet the vindaloo/jalapeno tortilla goes down a treat … the dunnies would be busier than a one-legged bloke at an arse-kicking contest.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    I’m waiting for Selwyn Duke to come onto this thread and defend himself.

    I’m beginning to think it’s appropriate that his bio mentions being featured on Rush Limbaugh, since he seems to be the same kind of playbook conservative propagandist who’s not actually interested in DISCUSSING issues, just saying silly shit and avoiding the possibility that those viewpoints might be challenged.

  • bliffle

    The solution to the Mexican illegal immigration problem lies in Mexico, not the USA. Nothing we can do here will stop it. Mexico could be a fabulously wealthy nation, but the unholy alliance of government, corporations, wealthy families, etc., that forms the ruling oligarchies won’t let it happen.

    Perhaps we should simply annex Mexico as the 51st state. Canada will simply have to wait, disappointing as that may be to them.

  • Zedd

    STM

    Re: “these guys”, I was refering to the so called American conservatives of today.

  • Baronius

    Selwyn – Congrats on the Limbaugh mention.

  • Lumpy

    Actually bliffle, if the illegals are acually sending the $20+ bil a year back to mexico that many claim, then that’s probably doing more to raise up their economy so that eventually immigration will slow than anything our government could do.

  • S.T.M

    I reckon Selwyn Duke is a made up name. No one’s named Selwyn, surely?