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The Obamercial McCain’t Move Me

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Before I get into the heart of this post, I want to reiterate that I do not support either major party candidate for the presidency. In fact, after researching all of the announced candidates, not a one of them passed my muster. Ergo, I have no partisan angle to offer in what I'm about to say.

It's been an interesting week watching the media promote John McCain and Caribou Barbie as if only these two were running in a Soviet-style election. I'm sure that McCain would love a 99.9% vote total!

But tonight wasn't about McCain. It was Obama's night with the presentation of his infomercial and the termination of a relatively quiet period in this campaign. Both Obama and Biden now have to regain the media coverage they surrendered in what has to have been a mistaken strategy to boost their sagging polling numbers relative to McCain.

This isn't to say that Obama is in the process of losing. But as has been the case for most of the presidential elections since Reagan's reelection, the polling numbers are being reported as closing. Whether they are or not will remain for the historians to determine.

If Obama's team was hoping for a knockout punch coming from the infomercial, they miscalculated badly. I didn't see or hear anything I haven't prior to tonight's presentation, and certainly nothing to put paid to McCain's efforts. It's as if Obama's team is back to the place they were toward the close of the primary – unable to "close the deal". If enough people come to this conclusion as I have, then McCain is the beneficiary of tonight's program.

But there is this certain problem which both candidates share in my mind. Neither one has demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that they deserve selection as president by the people of this nation. Neither one is fielding a winning team, just OK ones. Considering the problems facing this nation, mediocre isn't going to cut the mustard much less the deficit. And – considering the likely medical problems McCain faces – neither can Palin when she takes over as she likely will.

Anyone paying attention to the world's reaction to the recent raid into Syria knows that America has lost the assumption to leadership. No – thrown it away is more truthful. We have lost the trust of the world that we will do the right thing, so they are vying among themselves to rise to the top. Nicholas Sarkozy has scored some points in the EU dealing with the current economic crash prior to George Bush attempting to steal his thunder. China is waging a public relations assault on the image of the dollar, and Russia is slowly seeking to supplant the US as the dominant military power.

This isn't to say that any of these examples will prove successful, just that they would have been unthinkable prior to December of 2000. Who would ever consider taking on the nation which fought two major wars simultaneously half a world apart from each other while also supplying all of their allies with the tools of destruction? Oh, wait. That was sixty years ago. What have we done lately? What have we shown the world? A nation led by wise men, or what used to be a nation led by wise guys? The richest nation in the world, or the most profligate? The most moral nation, or the most hypocritical? The strongest nation, or the one whose rotting stench is becoming strongly unbearable?

You won't get the answers from our domestic media, and few of you have bothered to check out what the world is saying for yourselves. I'm not going to go into it for you tonight (although I'm considering it later this week), so if you really want to know, get off your Googly data stream and look it up. It isn't going to be hard to find, especially if you look first at Iraq. Or Pakistan. Or Afghanistan. But I digress.

I don't yet know who the American people are going to choose – or who will be chosen in our stead by those who count the votes. But whichever of these two becomes the leader of this land, very little of what they have been blathering about will ever become reality. The bulk of their efforts will be expended keeping the rest of the world from toppling us in an economic struggle. You will know well how costly this effort will be, because you are going to pay this bill along with the bank bailout and the other fiascos attacking We, the People and our future security en echelon.

So, to conclude, I quote the aged knight from the third Indiana Jones movie: "Choose wisely."

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About pessimist

  • “The Obamercial McCain’t Move Me”

    So you’re just Biden your time since they both Palin comparison, Barring aNader candidate shows up?

    Um, McKinney.

  • Nick

    How was Obama “unable to ‘close the deal'” to be the Democratic nominee? He made it mathematically impossible for Hillary to win long before she dropped out. Not to mention that, lo and behold, he’s the Democratic nominee. Not shocking Obama’s not elected before the election. And by the way, his campaign’s “sagging poll numbers” have a black man up by 6-12 points for the Presidency of the United States.

    The media wants a close horserace, to the point where Politico’s bemoaning that, gosh darnit, Obama’s not messing up enough for them to be even-handed in coverage of campaign errors.

    He’s raised record amounts of donations, 95% of which are $100 or less. He’s inspired a record amount of newly registered voters. What President, uninflated by the distortions of time and rose-colored glasses, WOULD pass your muster?

    I disagree with Obama on several issues (FISA, the role of faith & the role of faith-based initiatives, for three) but he was prescient about the mortgage crisis and the Iraq War, the two major factors that have the US losing the “trust of the world.”

    I only read your sad blog to see if the forced, pathetic title was a ironic. Who knew your entire article would be the joke.

  • Nick

    ? Next time you might consider laying out your specific problems with each candidate’s stance on even one issue. Listing America’s huge mistakes and challenges, then saying the candidates don’t “cut the mustard” isn’t informative or helpful.

  • Perhaps the Realist is disappointed that neither candidate seems willing to honestly confess that there is a real problem with the US of A.

    Neither candidate is willing to say to the people of the US “we spent too much, we didn’t think, we killed needlessly, we wasted our resources on nonsense.” Neither candidate has the humility to say that because of the staggering debt you Americans live under, neither he nor his opponent can do much at all. They both peddle illusions, seeking to fool you all one more time. Neither candidate has the sense to say, “we sinned” and name the sin.

    The man who starts from there is the true leader.

    Obama may win – it appears that this election is his to lose. If permited to assume the presidency, he will not say “we sinned” either. You will spend your days hearing the mellifluous tones and empty (but seemingly inspiring) words of a failed messiah.

    The “change” will be that you will no longer hear the assertions of the “idiot-in-chief”. Obama is extremely intelligent. But he is not capable of pulling you all out the morass that 60 years of deliberate financial mismanagement has gotten you into. He is neither that smart, nor that motivated.

    He is a Chicago politician of the old school, a smooth liar who will make you think you will get a chicken in your pot.

    But when it comes time to serve the meal, there will only be a tasteless broth.

    McCain may be sincere. But a man who flies one plane after another into the ground will only do the same to America – if he survives long enough to. Will Palin’s sharp tongue and defiance carry you all through tough crises? Maybe – if she is humble enough to admit from the gitgo that the States is a government of sinners, and that it has been governed by robber barons fo the last 60 years. Frankly, I do not think that Caribou Barbie is that well bottomed a woman (I wonder how many of you reading this really understands what “well bottomed” means here). In all truth, I’m not sure that such a woman exists in American politcs at all today.

    While others are out voting, I suggest you stock up on canned goods, flour, water, sugar, generators and generally prepare for disaster. That is what is coming your way.

  • Arch Conservative

    The Obama candidacy is the biggest hoax that has eceb been perpetrated on the American people and unfortunately it looks like it’s going to succeed.

    But who knows for how long. That’s another question to be answered another day.

  • I thought the biggest hoax perpetrated on the American (actually, US) people is that they live in the land of the free – as opposed to one of the most bureaucratic countries I’ve ever visited. The USA could give Spain a run for its money with regard to red tape and all round interference…

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Fine. Don’t vote, Realist.

    I don’t know, Christopher. I lived in France for two years. They LOVE their red tape. They really really do:)

  • I think the French copied it from the Spanish, Lisa!

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Oh, dear, Christopher, don’t let the French hear you say they copied anythingn from anyone!:)

  • Lisa, I think the French are so bolshie exactly because they copy so much. Why, even their language is just a dialect of Spanish! :-))

  • zingzing

    and where does our language come from, chris?

    i have to think that you probably ran into a lot of red tape because yer a damn furriner. i’m sure it’s become relatively easy to move around europe after the creation of the e.u.

    of course there are things about the u.s. that are stupid, lots of them… all i’m saying is that you were probably aware of stuff that most of us, as citizens, would never have to deal with.

    that said, i found living in england to be fairly pain free. except bars closing at 11. i know you can go to a club if you want to keep drinking, but, you know, a bar’s a bar and a club’s a club, and sometimes you just want to be at the bar. what’s up with that, eh? 11… that’s downright unamerican. of england.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    French and Spanish and both romance language. I actually find French much more beautiful. Despite the red tape the the “bolshieness” I adored living in France and would do it again in a heartbeat. OTOH I also liked living in England. As much as I love the US of A, I am, perhaps because of my weird genetic make-up, at ease in the world and can and have lived several places. Who knows where I will end up? Especially if the election does not end up as I hope it will?

  • zingzing

    i have a serious question that i am actually searching for the answer to. so if someone (conservative) could actually give me an honest response, that would be nice…

    if, say, obama gets elected, where would all the conservatives say they were moving?

    as in, when bush got elected, all us lefties said “i’m goin to canada.” or europe. or elsewhere.

    now, where would conservatives go? is there a country on this earth that conservatives actually respect enough to be willing to live there, as an antidote to what america has become?

    canada’s out, europe’s out, most of central and south america is impossible, mexico is full of mexicans, russia is evil, africa is… africa, australia is too european…

    maybe australia… it’s possible. but i’m sure that would leave a bitter taste in their mouth. israel is also a possibility, but they wouldn’t want you there and you also only like israel because you dislike palestine..

    so where?

  • zingzing

    and i can foresee someone saying “we, as conservatives, would never leave this great country because we don’t like how it is right now… we would fight to return it to our values, etc. because unlike you coward liberals, we would make a stand instead of running off to mommy europe.”

    (of course, i, and most of us liberals, stayed right here…)

    and dan(miller) has no say.

  • Clavos

    mexico is full of mexicans

    Sorta like what’s most wrong with the USA; it’s full of all you arrogant, smug, asshole gringos…

  • zingzing

    oh, shut the hell up clavos.

    i was asking a serious question.

    who’s being arrogant and smug and an asshole? for fuck’s sake…

  • Zingzing, and dan(miller) has no say. Ok. I will accept that on faith. I guess.


    Lurches silently into bedroom for a mid-day nap.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Sorta like what’s wrong with the USA; it’s full of you ignorant, selfish, greedy Americans.

    There! Fixed it for you, Clavos.

    (Zing. WHY do you try? You KNOW he really doen’t give a shit)

  • zingzing

    well, i’m not just asking clavos.

    it’s actually a serious question. i couldn’t help myself with the “mexico is full of mexicans” and “africa is… africa” bits. but the rest (well, most) of it is actually quite serious.

    i’d really like to hear a conservative response to the question.

    seriously. please.

  • Clavos

    I’m not moving anywhere — seriously.

    OK, gringo?

  • zingzing

    i’m not asking you to. i’m asking you (well, not really you…) to think about the question and come up with a hypothetical response. IF you were going to move, WHERE would that be?

    and what’s with this “gringo” shit? moon rubbing off on you?

    you’re really being a prick to me today, and i haven’t done a damn thing to deserve it, other than being a liberal. so grow up.

  • Clavos

    who’s being arrogant and smug and an asshole? for fuck’s sake…

    You, with the remark about Mexico being full of Mexicans.

    BTW, unless you figure out a way to stop us, in a few years we WILL be the largest single ethnic group in the USA.

    Start studying Spanish, gringo.

  • zingzing

    um… wait a minute. is moon commenting under clavos’ name?

    and you know as well as i do that “mexico is full of mexicans” is a reason why conservatives would not move there (at least in my liberal mind). certainly, it’s not meant to be nice to conservatives. but i shouldn’t have said it if i wanted to get a serious answer out of a conservative.

    so strike it. i still think a lot of conservatives would have issues with moving to mexico.

    the weather’s even a bit too warm for me down there.

    but i have no problem with mexicans. in fact, i live in a predominantly latin-american neighborhood. which is kinda like saying “i have several homosexual friends,” i know… but i’m quite used to hearing (and communicating, a little) in spanish.

  • troll

    New Zealand

  • zingzing

    hrm. new zealand has been leaning towards the right as of late… but not enough to make it a conservative country.

  • troll

    Devil’s Island then

  • zingzing

    “clavos(?)”: “unless you figure out a way to stop us, in a few years we WILL be the largest single ethnic group in the USA.”

    let me make something crystal clear for you… what makes you think someone like me would want to stop the inevitable? what part of “impossible” makes something worth fighting for or against?

    when this country has a latino majority, i hope it reflects that. it reflects the white majority right now, so it only seems fair. really, this country has been out of touch with its true nature for decades… maybe centuries.

    it was built on forced notions and has struggled, somewhat insanely, to hold onto those notions. we, as a nation, are quite deluded. of course, we make strides towards our true selves all the time, and it’s impossible to ignore. but our government and our institutions are slower to react than we are.

  • Cindy D


    they are going to move to alaska, secede and make palin their president.

    yea, sorry, i know you want a serious answer from a conservative.

  • zingzing

    troll–fitting, but french. but, fitting.

  • Clavos

    And, ironically, as a group, Mexicans tend to be quite conservative; they’re almost universally religionists, mostly Catholic, but when they stray from Catholicism, they favor Fundamentalist and Evangelical Christian sects.

    That said, my wife and I did attend an Orthodox Jewish wedding in Mexico City once — the groom was a good friend who worked for me.

  • zingzing

    oh, cindy d, can you imagine all those southerners moving up there? all the hard nipples…

  • Clavos

    Except for the cold, I think I could enjoy living in Alaska. But that’s a big exception, so I think I’ll stay here in the Banana Republic of Miami.

  • zingzing

    look, clavos, i know you have a soft spot in your heart for mexico. and i’m sure it is well-deserved and quite personal. i wasn’t insulting mexico with the “mexico is full of mexicans” thing, i was insulting conservatives. i know it’s not 100% true, but you know that there IS an inkling of truth in it. if you could see archie moving there, even after all his use of racial epithets and calling the place a shithole, then i would give you the point. but i can’t see it. if you could point out a good number of conservatives who frequent this site as examples of those who would prefer mexico to the united states, i’d have to consider the point.

    but not one conservative is helping you out right now.

  • zingzing

    and alaska doesn’t count. texas might.

  • Gosh Darn, Zingzing, I sure would like to help, but I don’t get a say. See my comment #17 responding to your #14.


    That was a pleasant nap. I think I shall do it again.

  • Clavos

    OK, zing, point taken. I apologize for misreading your intent.

    It’s not just a “soft spot.” I’m Mexican by birth, citizenship, and culturally; to the point that I would live there if I could make as good a living there as I do here, but unfortunately for me, this is where the rich guys buy their boats. If I ever quit working (doubtful) I will move back home.

    Anyway, the foregoing is by way of explanation why I blew up at you, and I apologize, both for misunderstanding AND for blowing up.

  • zingzing

    ok, dan. you already do live out of the country. in a rural area of peru, if i’m not mistaken. i’m not going to applaud, but i’m not not applauding either…

    you obviously chose to move to another country. and to a country i wouldn’t expect a conservative (if that’s how you self-identify) to move to. but, you did move to a bit of a backwoods, which is kind of insulated from national or international politics in a great many ways.

    still, i’d like to hear your take. so go ahead.

    clavos–apology accepted. thank you for being your (half-) usual reasonable self. even if i am usually not being reasonable, it’s totally on purpose. but today, i am actually trying to be reasonable. i know it’s hard to tell the difference. you’ll just have to trust me.

  • zingzing

    oh, and dan–if you are going to go on personal experience, when and why did you move?

  • Where do conservatives move? The answer is Northern Ireland. They haven’t nailed down the religious differences quite yet, so they haven’t even BEGUN to think of racial differences.

    Also, there’s beer and potatoes.

  • I have no problem with whoever is the majority in most countries. Once you get by the drecky stuff like religion, most people are the same and just want to get on with their lives.

  • Why thank, you Zingzing, for the kind invitation. I shall try to respond.

    We live in the highlands of the Republic of Panama and have never been to Peru. We left the U.S. in October of 1996 on our sailboat and headed for the Caribbean where we sailed for several years, visiting the Virgin Islands, the Windward and Leeward Islands, Venezuela, the Dutch Islands (Bonaire, Curacao and Aruba) and Colombia before winding up in Panama. Knowing that one day it would be necessary to “swallow the anchor” and revert to a land based existence, and having limited funds, we traveled quite a lot inland and considered many of the places we visited. Venezuela was great, but becoming politically unstable. It is much worse now. Bonaire was wonderful, with some of the best diving in the world; unfortunately, it was far too expensive. We liked Colombia a lot, but back then it was generally considered unsafe to travel outside of Cartagena and I don’t care for cities.

    Then we sailed to Panama. Having sat for several months at anchor in a pleasant little bay just off a small village, and considering briefly moving ashore there, we decided that it was too hot and humid and about an hour over very bad roads even to get to a marginal grocery store. We decided to explore a bit of the country, and did so. We took buses to Colon, thence to Panama City and thence to Boquete — then a pleasant small village. It seemed perfect, and we impetuously contracted to buy a small, half acre, lot about fifteen minutes outside of town. It was a terrible mistake, and we made it because we were stupid and got caught up in the hype. Eventually, we decided to rent a place in Boquete and lived there for about a year, deciding whether we really liked the area and looking for land. We eventually found what is now our finca, about thirteen acres, forty-five minutes from Boquete (the first half of the trip over not very good dirt roads) and about the same to the City of David (ditto re the roads), Panama’s third or forth largest city.

    We love it here, for any number of reasons. The rural people tend to be very pleasant and non-confrontational; they live their lives and seem very content. By U.S. standards, most are poor. They don’t seem to accept that they are, despite the best efforts of many doubtless well intentioned Gringos to tell them that they are, and to demonstrate their superiority by living ostentatiously, speaking (in English) down to them and paying far more for services than do Panamanians. Since there are now so many Gringos in Boquete, the economy has been badly distorted, to the disadvantage of the Panamanians still living there.

    If you are interested in Panama, you can check the web and find a vast number of links to folks who would just love to get your money. Most of what you are likely to find is absurd hype. If you are really interested in Panama or, for that matter, anyplace on the globe, don’t buy the hype. Visit. Spend a month or so and look around. Don’t buy anything. If you think you might like the area, rent for six months. Then go home and come back during a different season and do the same thing again. Then, and only then, look for a house or land upon which to build a house. If you don’t speak the “local foreign language,” learn. Otherwise, your only associations will be with fellow English speakers, of whom there are not many, at least here in Panama (with the exception of Boquete, which has become a small “Gringolandia,” with condos, gated communities, and the like).

    I am not going to tell you any more about Panama, and suggest that you find out for yourself. Here is a link to one local web site, here is a link to another and here is a link to a third. I would provide more, but the link limit for comments is three. The linked sites are in English, and they are not trying to sell anyone anything.

    Frankly, the fewer Gringos who come here to get away from the U.S. the better. I am always happy, on the other hand, to meet people who come here not to get away but because it is the place where they want to live.


  • Clavos

    Since there are now so many Gringos in Boquete, the economy has been badly distorted, to the disadvantage of the Panamanians still living there.

    The gringos always do that in foreign lands!

    When I was sent to Vietnam, I wound up being part of an advance party of US troops in the coastal valley where I spent my first few months incountry. There were 80 of us in the AP, and we were the first US troops ever to be there. There was a small ville (village) in the valley, and it naturally became a magnet for us, having, as it did, a couple of small bars. At the time of our arrival in 1965, a bottle of Vietnamese Ba Moui Ba (“33” brand) beer cost the equivalent of 10 cents US. Almost from the very first day, I saw well intentioned but unsophisticated GIs thrusting more than a dime at the waitresses, saying things like “Here, that’s not much for a beer.” Within weeks, the price of a bottle of beer was up to a quarter, the number of bars had tripled, and at least three whorehouses had sprung up. After a couple of months, the Vietnamese workers, who had customarily stopped for a cool one after work in the original little bars, no longer could afford to buy a beer, the price of which had risen to fifty, then seventy five cents, and finally, a dollar.

    Along with the price of beer, the price of everything else, including haircuts, went up in that village, and the locals were priced out of everything.

    It was an excellent lesson on how inflation can ravage an (in this case small) economy.

  • zingzing

    sounds lovely, dan. and it sounds like you’ve found an idillic spot for yourself.

    but, you didn’t move there for political reasons, did you? unless it was to get away from all politics, not just liberal 1996 america…

    panama does swing a little left, as far as i remember. so i’m not sure if it’s the conservative safe-haven i’m searching for. but i’m sure you’re happy there. so, if asked, you’d probably want to move there again if you just couldn’t stand the idea of living in liberal 2009 obamaland.

    say you are given this situation: you are conservative and obama just won the election. you declare, “as a conservative, i just can’t stand obamaland like this anymore! i am moving to _____!” where do you think that place would be?

    it seems to me that liberals/leftists would feel fine moving to a lot of places, and the more left they are, the more places they would consider. i can’t say the same for conservatives/rightists.

  • Yep, Clav. It’s pretty much like that all over, and it’s a damn shame. That’s one of the reasons why I don’t want people coming to my adopted home to get away from some other place. Bad money drives out good, and the same is true of people.


    Nope, I didn’t come here for political reasons, and would discourage anyone from doing so.

    As to Panama swinging a little to the left, it has in the past (see Manuel Noriega), and it may in the future, but I don’t think so. Actually, Noriega was a very bad man and, with few exceptions, is despised by those who lived through his regime. Those with whom I have talked are quite open in their dislike of him. Some wish that the U.S. had been a bit less aggressive and a bit more sensitive in bringing him down, but are generally delighted that he is gone. Very few would like him to come back. I am not aware of one school or other building named after him. On the other hand, Omar Efraín Torrijos Herrera, who led the country prior to his death, possibly at the hands of Noriega, is very highly regarded, as is his bastard but acknowledged son, the current President of Panama. (Martin Torrijos was eight years old when his father was killed in a somewhat mysterious helicopter crash; there has been lots of speculation, but that’s about it.)

    If Panama does swing to the left, it will be in the big cities, such as Panama City and Colon; not here in the rural highlands. There is no “welfare state” here as known in the U.S., and people pretty much have to look after themselves and their families; they do it quite well. There is free, or subsidized, medical care and it is generally adequate. People who work and have social security, as well as their dependents, are treated (while working and subsequent to retirement) without cost at local medical clinics and Government run hospitals. Those who don’t have social security benefits have to pay — $3.00 for a clinic visit, and very little for a hospital stay. Patients in the public hospitals generally have to be looked after — food, linen changes, etc. — by family or friends.

    My wife volunteers through a local group to provide basic food necessities, wheel chairs, and the like to people who would not otherwise have those things. The budget to provide food is small, roughly $35.00 per month. One family to which she delivers stuff always has some little something for her in return — a pineapple grown in their garden, or perhaps a squash — they seem very grateful, and want to return the favor. They don’t seem to view it as “welfare,” but as simple kindness, which they want to reciprocate. I don’t think it is welfare; it is probably charity, but I have the sense that if we were on the receiving end, and they were on the giving end, they and we would behave about the same. I don’t think that is unique to Panama, but based on what I have read, there is very little of that in the U.S. entitlement society.

    I have no advice to offer people who want to leave the U.S. based on the outcome of the election, other than that they are probably going to be unhappy wherever they go. I hope that they will stay home and try to fix the problem.


  • Baronius

    Zing, I remember in 1988, a joke in National Review that if Dukakis won they’d be moving their headquarters to New South Wales. But I haven’t heard any conservatives seriously talking about leaving the US. I think the instinct would be to move to the western US and try to avoid the government altogether.

  • Maybe it’s time for the return of the fillibusters. If enough conservatives moved to a small central American country they could just take it over. Hell, I imagine we could just buy a couple of them from their current governments.

    Welcome to the Conservative Republic of Costahondaragua, here’s your free Bible and adult diapers.


  • “(Martin Torrijos was eight years old when his father was killed in a somewhat mysterious helicopter crash; there has been lots of speculation, but that’s about it.)”

    And yet Obama called the helicopter terrorist “just a guy in the barrio.”

  • zingzing

    dave, that was the most hilarious thing you’ve said in weeks.

    is this you giving in to the inevitable?

    i didn’t say that…

  • zingzing

    but still my serious question remains…

    i don’t want to know IF you would leave the country. i doubt you would. i didn’t.

    but, if you WOULD leave, WHERE would you go?

    where in the world can the conservative go?

  • Cannonshop

    #49 Nowhere, Zing. The answer to your question is “Nowhere”. just going down the list of constitutional rights, there’s not one other country on earth, there’s NOWHERE, for American Conservatives to go.

    Liberals can go just about anywhere, because the things that aren’t important to them aren’t important to most of the places they would go. Many American Libs would, I think, really enjoy living in Europe far more than the United States (Perhaps why they’re often so seemingly obsessed with copying European government HERE.)

    But there’s no “Conservative Havens”, no place for Conservative thinkers, outside the United States.

  • Condor


    I’ve been all over the world. SE asia, Japan, Alaska, Africa, South America, Europe (Spain mostly).

    If I was to move anywhere it would be along the Chilian coast (California like weather). Or, the coast of Portugal. Or the Swiss Alps around Klien Schidigg(sp)with a view of the Eiger Nordwand. Perhaps seasonal homes during those temporate times of year.

  • Hmmm…Well, there are some rural areas of Alberta that might not be bad for the lonely, exiled Republicans…if you can stand the fact that in general, even most conservatives in Canada would qualify as raging socialists by the way some BCers seem to define things.

    You could then join the full-throated chorus of native Albertans disparaging “the feds”, “those damn Quebeckers” and most of all “those effing Torontonians” that are conspiring keeping the province down…

  • Deano, isn’t it rural Alberta where they enjoy spontaneously chopping people’s heads off and butchering them on buses?

    Sarah Palin would be right at home, anyway.

  • No, actually that happened on a bus in Manitoba, a province-and-a-half away from Alberta.

    The bus was, however going from Edmonton, Alberta to Winnipeg, Manitoba so you could (with the usual online absolutist hyperbole) suggest that it was ALL ALBERTA’s FAULT!

    You could suggest that if you like. I won’t as I quite like Alberta. And Manitoba.

  • Baronius

    Cannon, you got it exactly right. That’s what I was trying to say with my comment about the western US, that conservatives would be likely to move somewhere “more” American, not less. You could argue that a good deal of the Northeast either is interchangable with western Europe and Canada, or wouldn’t mind being so. But west of the mighty Mississip, no one cares what’s happening in Brussels.

  • zingzing

    No one cares what’s happening in brussels… until you hit the west coast.

    of course, not that many people really care about what goes on from just west of the mississippi all the way to las vegas, as long as they keep the corn and wheat coming.

    it’s like a black hole of concern… it doesn’t give a shit about anything else, and no one gives a shit about it.

  • Clavos

    No one cares what’s happening in brussels… until you hit the west coast.

    Why do they care there?

  • zingzing

    ahem. “brussels” was just meant to mean europe. and the west coast (of america) is fairly liberal, especially in the big cities… so people on the west coast care about what goes on in “brussels.”

    maybe that was unclear.

  • Zedd

    Clavos sed: And, ironically, as a group, Mexicans tend to be quite conservative;

    Sorry bud, there is serious Obama-mania in Mexico. Also, while people complain about the government regularly, they are socialistic. Sorry lil’Bud

  • moon

    Actually, Zedd, one of the few things I would agree with clavos on is that Mexicans are generally conservative.

    I have been here for 15 years and can tell you that the left is a chaotic muddle of internecine warfare here.

    Mexico’s pols would cut the throat of their wives in the struggle for power (fairly recently the pretty boy from Estado de Mexico being groomed by the PRI for a presidential run “lost” his wife under very suspicious circumstances, in fact).

    The voters are frightened by change. They haven’t hit bottom yet–even though they have touched it with their toenails several times since 1982–and therefore are not ready to consider socialism.

    Socialism was something that only had a positive association in Lazaro Cardenas’ presidency (1934-40). He nationalized Mexico’s petroleum reserves.

    In fact, part of the “dirty war” conducted against AMLO in the 2006 presidential campaign was tarring him with a socialist/chavista brush. It worked, too.

  • Clavos

    Sorry bud, there is serious Obama-mania in Mexico. Also, while people complain about the government regularly, they are socialistic. Sorry lil’Bud

    I’m neither little nor your “bud.”

    Obamania on the part of ignorant peasants is only a manifestation of their perception of a man of color attaining what they never will: power.

    The vast majority haven’t a clue what Obama represents or stands for; they merely see a man they can identify with (i.e. non-white), and since the whites have controlled all of the wealth and most of the power in Mexico ever since the conquista, they are excited. It doesn’t mean that the whites in Mexico will in any way give up either their wealth or their power. Witness the recent election, which the Indian peasant candidate won, but was denied the the office.

    As to their “socialism:” If such it is, it’s the most flawed version of it in the world. if you think there’s a serious imbalance between the haves and have nots in the USA, the problem is a hundred times worse in Mexico, where a tiny oligarchy controls everyone and everything, and the vast majority live in abject poverty.

    Some “socialism.”

    Mexico is not and never has been a democracy, not even in Pre-Columbian times.

  • Zedd


    I love the point that you are making. If no one on the entire planet sees your point, maybe you don’t have one. OR If you cant get along with ANYONE, maybe it’s you who has the problem (or just nuts).

    At Least I that is what I picked up from your original question. Could be wrong.

  • Zedd

    What is a Gringo exactly? Are Italian-Americans Gringos? What about Jewish-Americans? Are we talking about the Griswalds or just anyone that has or looks like they have European Ancestry?

  • moon

    1. Gringos are white folks from the US of A.

    2. There is no Obama Mania in Mexico–serious or otherwise. Folks here are much too concerned about the fact that their privatized individual pension accounts have lost 40% since January and are heading downhill at an alarming rate to really give a flying fart about Obama or McCain. And prices are going up–even my 13-year old nephew narrowed his eyes at the little store in our village this afternoon. And the peso is trading at 12.74 to the dollar. These are the concerns, not Gringo pols.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    YOUR name…. in YOUR part of MEXICO.

    NOT all Mexicans spend their time making up names for us….
    SOme people don’t view Jews as white.

    Mexico is not the world. Europeans and Asians and Afriancs don’t call us Gringos.

    Moon likes to call names. It makes her feel good.

    She says she is a native american. So she is not a Mexican either. Does that make her a Gringo? What is SHE? Do we get to call her a name if we please?

    Should we have a contest to think one up?

    Good lord. Enough of of this crap.

  • Zedd

    Moon / Clavos,

    I’ve gotten a completely different perspective.
    NPR (National Public Radio) ran some pieces on Mexico and the American election. From the mouths of Mexican reporters it was stated that the people were excited about Obama. That there is a frenzy.

    According to one piece, conservative attitudes of Mexicans were in the area of religion however their views on economic issues was socialistic (juxtaposed to ours) regardless of the standing complaints about government. The well educated tended to be conservatives (as in all countries where there is a major gap between the haves and have nots).

    Also, A nationwide Consulta Mitofsky poll in September found that among Mexicans following the U.S. election, 56 percent favored Obama and 12 percent preferred McCain. And an August BBC poll found 54 percent of Mexicans supporting Obama compared to 16 percent for McCain.

    It is my understanding that Mexico fell in love with Kennedy and that some have dubbed him the Black Kennedy. Google it I’m sure there is something out there about it.

    I will concede that you know better what is on the ground. I based my statement on what I have read and heard on the topic. It is nice that you both agree on at least anything.


    Your belittling the uneducated as if their views about their own planet are useless is shameful, especially coming from someone who is gaga about Sarah Palin. What’s your excuse?

  • Zedd

    Does the word Gringo have a negative connotation or is it what White Americans are called?

  • Clavos

    {Fraid not, Lisa.

    Nosotros los mexicanos consideramos todos los norteamericanos gringos. Los peores son pinches gringos.

    As our President, Porfirio Díaz once remarked:

    “¡Pobre de México! ¡Tan lejos de Dios y tan cerca de los Estados Unidos!” (Poor Mexico, so far from God and so close to the United States!)

  • McMoney

    Just ahead of McCain and shaking hands with Follieri appears to be Rick Davis–McCain’s top aide and now co-manager of his campaign, who accompanied him on the trip and advised the government of Montenegro. A few months after McCain’s yacht party, Follieri strengthened his ties to McCain’s orbit by retaining Rick Davis’s well-connected Washington lobbying firm, Davis Manafort, and offering Davis both an investment deal and help in securing the Catholic vote for McCain’s presidential bid. Follieri, who posed as Vatican chief financial officer in order to win friends and investments, pleaded guilty Wednesday in a Manhattan district court to conspiracy to commit wire fraud, eight counts of wire fraud and five counts of money laundering. As part of the plea, Follieri admitted to misappropriating at least $2.4 million of investor money and redirecting it to foreign personal bank accounts that were disguised as business accounts.

    The photograph substantiates reports that in late August, 2006, McCain celebrated his 70th birthday aboard a yacht, the Celine Ashley, rented by A-list con man Raffaello Follieri and his then-movie star girlfriend Anne Hathaway.

    In the photograph, taken in Montenegro at the end of August, McCain is shown boarding the yacht ramp towards the smiling Follieri and Hathaway.

  • zingzing


    yeah, gringo has a negative connotation. it’s not all that insulting… but whatever.

    and yeah, the point i was trying to make with my question is that, on a world stage, american-style conservatism is quite dead. it’s not dead here, and i don’t see it ending any time soon. god knows that a obama presidency will just make them more set in their ways.

    but still. the american conservative has less than half a country where they feel at home, and it’s getting increasingly smaller. just look at the southeast… it’s starting to swing democratic. we’re putting them in a bind between the coastal and northern states… but, there’s a lot of america left around for them to live in.

  • Zedd


    So all North Americans are gringos. By “pinches” are you talking about the working class or a certain ethnic group?

    So is it the word that has a negative connotation or being North American? I think I get the picture.

  • Clavos

    Pinches has no direct translation, Zedd. It’s a pejorative, so you could say it’s like saying “damn gringos.”

    So is it the word that has a negative connotation or being North American?

    Canadians are not gringos, so it doesn’t apply to them.

    And I disagree with zing. In Mexico, citizens of the USA are routinely referred to as gringos in casual conversation, with no derogatory implications. However, with pinche in front of it, it definitely is derogatory.

    And zing, if you think the Southeast is turning blue, you obviously haven’t traveled much in Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Kentucky, or even the Carolinas. That the Carolinas increasingly look like they’re going for Obama is only an indicator of how many blacks live there, not of a seminal shift in their politics, particularly not their local politics.

    This election is giving a false impression for that reason. Much of what strength Obama is showing in the South lies with his being a man of color, not his politics. The states I mentioned above remain deeply fundamentalist conservative, especially in the rural areas.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    I have lived in the South all my life. It is fundamentally conservative. However, IF Obama gets elected, they will just have to get on board.

  • Zedd


    While the ethnicity element has a role, you are missing the most important factor, the economy. If people in the mountains of West Virginia are talking Obama, you know that it’s not about race.

  • Clavos

    However, IF Obama gets elected, they will just have to get on board.

    More likely, they will simply ignore him (and the rest of DC), and go about their business as they always have, for generations. For that matter, so will the rest of the country.

    As someone once noted, all politics is local, and who sits in the WH has little to no effect on the individual daily lives of the citizens.

  • Franco

    And I disagree with zing. In Mexico, citizens of the USA are routinely referred to as gringos in casual conversation, with no derogatory implications.

    Exact same thing here in Chile. They use is as a form of friendly expression.

  • Arch Conservative

    “I have lived in the South all my life. It is fundamentally conservative. However, IF Obama gets elected, they will just have to get on board.”

    Yeah, I’m sure that’s just what they’ll do Lisa. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • zingzing

    too be clear, “gringos,” in the context it is used here (on bc, and especially by moon), is certainly not a “friendly expression.” it may mean something different in mexico, chile and the movies.

    and yeah, rural areas of the south are certainly going to stay conservative. but, as cities in the south continue to grow (and where else are cities growing at such a rate?), the general political trend is going to be towards the left. nc and va haven’t voted for a democrat candidate in my lifetime. but the elections have, recently, been getting closer and closer. and this time, they might just tip right on over. even florida is looking to go blue. even if they don’t end up voting for obama, just the fact that it looks like they might means something. (it’s actually fairly close in georgia as well.) could you imagine this kind of thing 4 years ago? what can you imagine in another 4 years? what about 8?

    and by “southeast,” i certainly didn’t have alabama in mind. that’s deep south. deeeeep south.

  • moon

    1. Gringo is exactly what I wrote yesterday that it was–the name used here in Latin America for white folks from the US.

    2. Gringo is not a perjorative term. It is the term used because Norteamericano and Estadunidense are the other options. Would you rather say a mouthful of syllables or TWO? Think about it. If you think it’s perjorative you probably have a bad conscience.

    3. Pinche is used in the way that you would say “fucking”–as in fucking Mexicans.

    4. Jews are considered white here–therefore Jews from Gringolandia are gringos. The ones that insist on doing the Gringo Dance to get attention, [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor], would probably quickly fall into the category of the Pinche Gringo.

    5. This poster–and don’t even go there, as we went through this bs two years ago–is not a gringa. Native Americans are not considered to be gringos. Afro-Americans are not either–as they are not identified with white culture and in many cases, clearly do not LOOK white. Hugo Chavez did not realize that I was a Native American at first, and introduced me in a public forum in Caracas in 2003 as The Proof of the Existence of Good Gringos”. I told him that I was primarily Waban-Aki from Quebec, and that if he was not an “Escuálido”, I was not a Gringa. He apologized.

    6. If someone is so mean-spirited and infantile as to choose to foment a contest on this site to call me names other than my posting name, bring it on. You don’t need to comply with no stinkin’ Blogcritics rules. You’re special.

    7. Zedd, You need to remember that in this culture folks usually say what they think you want to hear if it’s a public forum. Trust me that there is NO Obama Fever. Folks care about their personal and family economies going into the toilet. If you choose to believe otherwise, that’s your choice. Not my problem. I couldn’t give a flying fart about either candidate. And most of the folks who don’t live in one of the major Mexican cities don’t even know who Obama is–or what political party he belongs to.

  • moon

    This was just posted on the Miami Herald site:

    “Poll: Latin America indifferent over US election
    Associated Press

    Associated Press

    BOGOTA — Two in three Latin Americans either don’t care who wins Tuesday’s U.S. presidential election or don’t think the outcome will matter, according to a survey in 18 countries.

    The poll found that 29 percent of Latin Americans think a victory by Democrat Barack Obama would be better for the region while 8 percent prefer Republican John McCain.

    The rest essentially don’t know or don’t care: 29 percent did not believe either candidate was a superior choice for Latin America, while 31 percent said they did not know.

    The poll by Chile-based Latinobarometro also found that one in three Latin Americans think Washington will not pay more attention to the region, regardless of who wins.

    ”They believe that the U.S. election will not produce any change in Latin America,” said Marta Lagos, Latinobarometro’s director. “The most important finding, I think, is that the United States is losing power in Latin America.”

    I think you guys can let it go. Nobody cares.

  • Here in Panama, there seems to be at least modest interest. The fate of the free trade agreement seems to attract some attention. Other than that, not much. There were two articles on the front page of the on-line version of la Prensa this morning, one dealing with Senator Obama’ aunt and another dealing with the Bradley effect.


  • Zedd


    I would say that most people in general including me, are not that moved by Obama or any politician, they are preoccupied by their own lives. What is of note is the difference in level of attention to this particular race as opposed past races. Everyone wants a good ending or to believe in the human spirit. America of late has been a disappointment. In the past in represented a place where all dreams can come true to the rest of the world. Off course living here we know it is not. However, the Obama thing has brought back some of that hope in what we represent. The world wants to believe that there is such a place.

    I realise that this post is directed at the wrong this type of thing. Injured or deficient as you are, you will recoil to some base position pooh poohing the entire notion and keeping your world simple and tidy, fully furnished with idiots that will never understand your wisdom. None the less, it’s been said….

  • moon


    If that was meant as a personal attack against me, it was so incoherent as to be useless.

    You can dream all you want to–I just don’t think this is a particularly good time in history to sit around dreaming while the planet goes to hell in a handcart.

    And if that is a “base position” to take, it is at least a RESPONSIBLE one.

    My world is never simple and tidy–but I can handle chaos.

    It’s you foks from Gringolandia who want to pretend it doesn’t exist–and that you didn’t cause it.