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The Image of Mohammad, Free Speech, and Religious Outrage

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In September, a dozen cartoons were published in Denmark critical of Islam, some depicting Muhammad, the prophet and founder of Islam, in an unflattering light. Many Muslims consider it blasphemy to print any image of Muhammad. One cartoon depicts Muhammad with a turban in the shape of a bomb. Another shows him at the gates of heaven, arms raised, saying to male suicide bombers, “Stop, stop, we have run out of virgins.” A third has devil’s horns emerging from his turban.

The cartoons have been reprinted in Norway, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Switzerland and Hungary, as well as in Jordan. Editors at papers in France and Jordan were fired for publishing them

Friday, U.S. State Department spokesman, Sean McCormack, said, “Anti-Muslim images are as unacceptable as anti-Semitic images, as anti-Christian images, or any other religious belief.” But he defended the right of newspapers to publish the cartoons, saying, “We vigorously defend the right of individuals to express points of view.”

Also Friday demonstrators filled the streets in the Palestinian regions and in Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Indonesia and Malaysia calling for boycotts of European goods and burning the flag of Denmark.

Today several thousand enraged demonstrators set the Danish and the Norwegian embassies in Damascus on fire to protest the cartoons. Chanting “God is Greatest,” the protesters stormed the Danish embassy, threw rocks and broke windows, burned the Danish flag and replaced it with another reading “No God but Allah, Mohammad is His Prophet.” The embassy was empty in anticipation of the protest and the Danish Foreign Ministry warned its citizens against traveling to Syria and urged all Danes now there to leave the country.

Is religious outrage reasonable? Should the threatened, and now exercised, expression of that outrage outweigh freedom of speech? How far do we go toward accommodating religious sensitivities in a pluralistic society? Is there such thing as a legitimate non-pluralistic society?

Varying viewpoints on the situation from Blogcritics:

College Paper Publishes Anti-Muslim Cartoons; Refuses to Publish Responses to Them
As I posted last week on Pink Pumps & Politics, The Communicator, Indiana-Purdue University of Fort Wayne’s student newspaper, ran the 12-cartoon anti-Islamic cartoons that have been creating controversy worldwide. No context to them. No editorials. Just a…
Posted to Culture by Chelsea Snyder on February 23, 2006 03:47 PM

Jesus Cartoons Everywhere and Christians Are Not Rioting
I “Googled” and “Alta-Vista-ed” the phrase “Jesus Cartoon” this morning and found that there were quite a few to choose from. Most were from Christian sites, some from anti-Christian sites, some were whimsical, some were coarse and degrading, many were…
Posted to Culture by Bird of Paradise on February 21, 2006 05:43 AM

Terror Wins Big In US News Media
Someone in the US newspaper business finally had the courage to tell it like it is. You might think this means that a newspaper had the courage to publish the Danish Muhammed cartoon caricatures but you would be wrong. Instead, what we…
Posted to Politics by Bird of Paradise on February 21, 2006 04:45 AM

The West Is Clearly on the Defensive in Cartoon Controversy
The Muslim world is on the attack, and from all accounts is doing exceedingly well. With election victories in Palestine and Iran, growing influence in Egypt and riots and demonstrations all over the world to list, the West finds itself…
Posted to Politics by Chip Spear on February 20, 2006 03:53 PM

Preserving the West in the Age of Cartoon Riots
Giving in to the calls for the censorship of all things offensive to Islam could be, in effect, paving the way for eventual Islamic hegemony.
Posted to Politics by Greg Strange on February 20, 2006 01:49 PM

Friday Femmes Fatales No 44 (Women Bloggers)
Cartoon controversy, dumb doctors, the joys of Valentine’s Day, and why you should be careful about saying you’re ‘feeling down’.
Posted to Sci/Tech by Natalie Bennett on February 18, 2006 09:47 PM

Student Newspaper Publishes Anti-Islam Cartoons
In its February 15 issue, the Communicator at Indiana-Purdue University, Fort Wayne published the 12-cartoon series originally featured in Denmark that featured anti-Islamic messages and has sent the international community into a frenzy. In its staff editorial, the…
Posted to Culture by Chelsea Snyder on February 19, 2006 01:27 AM

Want Peace? Abolish the Priesthood!
Who fuels the hatred and violence we’ve seen across the Muslim world for the past two weeks over the Danish cartoons? Mullahs and “holy men”. Who fuels the arrogance of the religious right here in America? Preachers. Who pushes the absurdity…
Posted to Politics by alethinos59 on February 19, 2006 12:04 AM

Satire: Brokeback Mohammed
In the news: The National Endowment for the Arts has granted $100,000 to artist Andres Serrano to create an art work to be called “Piss Mohammed.” * * * The Brooklyn Museum will sponsor an exhibit by British artist Chris Ofili, in which…
Posted to Politics by Nicholas Stix on February 18, 2006 01:51 AM

Iran Embraces Western Values
Finally, some good news from the Muslim world. All that burning and looting about a bunch of stupid cartoons was so last millennium. Now, all you “Samuel Huntingtonians” out there can breathe a sigh…
Posted to Culture by Pete Blackwell on February 17, 2006 12:15 PM

Meet Mr. Insensitive … Me
“How far do we go toward accommodating religious sensitivities in a pluralistic society?” – Eric Olsen, cartoon-controversy roundup This question underscores a huge problem with respect to how the Mohammed-caricature controversy is often being cast. What I say below should…
Posted to Culture by David M. Brown on February 16, 2006 07:52 AM

For the Love of All That is America, Learn What The First Amendment Is…
Throughout the cartoon controversy people on both sides talk about free speech and a free press. While in general, these can be construed as the freedom to say what you want, people are conflating Constitutional protections with the…
Posted to Politics by John Bambenek on February 15, 2006 03:41 PM

Political Tidbits 2/15/06
Republican or Democrat, American or Foreign, the politicos are fine subject for speculation, rumination and a bit of derision Funerals and Politics This is the second funeral attended and orchestrated by mostly Democrats that I watched with my own disbelieving eyes. First…
Posted to Politics by Patfish on February 15, 2006 11:00 AM

An Orchestrated Protest
In the last few weeks, we have witnessed many protests by Muslims against the Danish cartoons of Prophet Mohammed. Emotions have been running ‘high’ in Middle Eastern countries like Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, etc.,…
Posted to Politics by Aaman Lamba on February 15, 2006 12:49 AM

Why Europe Has Less Success Integrating Muslims Than North America
Recently a friend made an interesting observation about the whole Muhammad cartoon kerfuffle. He pointed out that while several European papers have published the cartoons, relatively few have in the US and Canada. Of course the Internet is…
Posted to Culture by Akeel Shah on February 14, 2006 07:27 PM

The “Offended” Offenders
The recent attempts to placate Muslim demonstrators–and calls to “understand” how “deeply offensive” the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed are to Muslims– frankly offends me to the point of fury. The reasons for this are—literally–graphically clear. The source of my rage…
Posted to Politics by Elvira Black on February 12, 2006 04:37 AM

Happy Ashura, You Maniacs
It’s Ashura! Let’s go out and celebrate by beating children with swords until we’re all splattered with blood. There’s some good holy fun!
Posted to Culture by Dave Nalle on February 11, 2006 01:12 PM

Muhammad Cartoon Interpreted
Revealing expressions in the heart of European media posted in response to Cartoon + Interpretation at post.thing.net The Danish Cartoon This guy looks like a desi – South Asian – bouncer….
Posted to Culture by Gazelle on February 10, 2006 04:11 PM

Artists Explode the Bombs
Now for some humorous violence from four artists. 1. Frederc Madre at

Posted to Culture by Gazelle on February 9, 2006 11:26 AM

Cartoon Controversy: Are Those Most Offended Least Familiar With Islamic History?
Satire is the very essence of free speech. “Free speech,” as a term and as a concept, is devoid of meaning if it does not apply to speech that makes any number of us uncomfortable for any number of reasons….
Posted to Politics by Eric Olsen on February 9, 2006 11:13 AM

Looking For Comedy In The Muslim World, And Finding Irony
As you read about the continuing riots over the caricatures of Mohammed, I urge you to please shed a tear for Albert Brooks – the comedian who went looking for comedy in the Muslim world and released his movie…
Posted to Culture by Aaman Lamba on February 8, 2006 09:32 PM

Medieval Islam Caught Flat-footed In The Modern World
There is a massive medieval tribe of 1.3 billion humans living among the rest of us on our planet. I am speaking of those folks who follow the religion of Islam. More particularly, I am speaking of a smaller section of Muslims,…
Posted to Politics by Adam Ash on February 8, 2006 03:25 PM

Sites Hacked Over Cartoon Controversy
As hackers attack Danish Web sites over the controversy over the cartoons of Muhammed and some cartoons are shown to be a hoax, Iran makes plans to publish holocaust cartoons. A news report says 800 Danish web sites have been…
Posted to Politics by Scott Butki on February 8, 2006 06:47 PM

“Death to Denmark” and Other Cartoonish Islamic Inanities
Remember the old Looney Tunes cartoons that so many of us grew up watching? Warner Brothers never failed to delight us with its gallery of delightful characters and their wacky antics: Bugs Buggy, Daffy Duck, Porky Pig, Tweety and…
Posted to Culture by Greg Strange on February 8, 2006 01:21 AM

Iranian Paper Launches Holocaust Cartoon Competition
Last month Iran announced it was planning a conference to assess the scale of the Holocaust. This is the same country with a president (who some say, was among the hostage takers at the U.S. Embassy back in the ’70s)…
Posted to Politics by Kevin Surbaugh on February 7, 2006 11:03 AM

Danish Cartoon Controversy Pits Pen vs. Sword
Much ink and, unfortunately, some blood has already been spilled over the Danish cartoon controversy. Defenders of free expression are lining up opposite defenders of the faith and the situation is devolving into an unpleasant test of whether the pen…
Posted to Culture by Pete Blackwell on February 6, 2006 06:56 PM

Western Crisis Intervention Needed
Current sparks of Islamic violence across the globe in feverish protest over a handful of stupid cartoons hammer home once again the reality that these guys need to find a hobby or something to distract them from a sense…
Posted to Culture by Dawn Olsen on February 6, 2006 06:43 PM

Christianity and Cartoons Versus Islam and Cartoons
There has been a small debate recently over at Daily Pundit over whether Christianity has some of the same seeds that can spring into irrational violence as Islam. I agree with those who say that it does but that Christianity…
Posted to Culture by David M. Brown on February 6, 2006 02:18 AM

The Pen Really IS Mightier Than the Sword
I can see why Albert Brooks’ film Looking for Humor in the Moslem World was a flop. Apparently there is no sense of humor there, especially the more subtle forms like irony. The recent controversy over the two…
Posted to Politics by Dave Nalle on February 5, 2006 09:30 PM

Billy Joel, Prophet Muhammad, And The Disconnect From Reality
Billy Joel, Prophet Muhammad, And The Disconnect From Reality As a weekend guest from Denmark played Billy Joel music by memory on our living room piano, one of his country’s embassies was being burned in a blind rage that is…
Posted to Politics by allendrury on February 5, 2006 09:21 PM

Born Again to Sensitivity
The cartoon episode seems to be spinning quite out of control. Middle Eastern countries are calling for economic boycotts (a very legitimate form of protest, as is the “buy Danish” groundswell). Angry mobs burn embassies, and the Boston…
Posted to Culture by Harry Forbes on February 5, 2006 03:42 PM

Media Reality Check: Freedom to Be Offensive?
To: The Mainstream News Media From: A reporter-turned-educator who is still a news junkie Re: Unfunny cartoons All across the world, in newspapers and blogs, people are talking about offensive cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad and the violent reactions they are sparking. This is…
Posted to Culture by Scott Butki on February 5, 2006 11:47 AM

The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy
I didn’t intend to write about this thorny issue because I never understand why some westerners behave stupidly when it comes to religious sensitivities. More than half the world’s problems arise from religious intolerance and I just don’t understand why…
Posted to Culture by Vijay Sappani on February 4, 2006 03:18 AM

Desicritics And Historical Commentary On Free Speech And The Danish Cartoons
Free Speech is under attack! This refrain is as old as Cato, the “conscience of Rome”. The Romans noted that “No sooner a word is spoken than it is gone never to be recalled”. Justice Brandeis commented, “Fear of serious…
Posted to Culture by Aaman Lamba on February 4, 2006 02:58 AM

Don’t Let the Islamo-Fascists Kill the Right to Free Speech
Some peacenik types, practiced in the art of highly selective observation and quotation, bleat that all that America or the West need do to defuse the threat of Islamic terrorism is forbear from ever getting involved militarily in conflicts overseas….
Posted to Culture by David M. Brown on February 3, 2006 08:19 PM

“Death to Denmark”: Freedom of Speech And Thought Under Fire
For once, it’s not American or Israeli flags burning in the sands of the Middle East. The cross of Denmark is aflame and “Death to Denmark” is a chant commonly heard from the Gaza Strip to Pakistan. My, my, what…
Posted to Politics by Mark Edward Manning on February 3, 2006 08:01 PM

Cutting Through the Static on The Freedom of Press Issue
There are some hateful and misguided people in this world as evidenced by the comments made in response to the Danish cartoon story. More importantly, I’ve never witnessed a group of people completely miss the point. As you may know,…
Posted to Politics by DJ Freq on February 3, 2006 07:52 PM

Islam – Religion Of Intolerance
Article here: The controversy over Danish caricatures of Prophet Muhammad escalated Monday as gunmen seized an EU office in Gaza and Muslims appealed for a trade boycott of Danish products. Denmark called for its citizens in the Middle East to…
Posted to Politics by RJ Elliott on January 31, 2006 01:13 AM

Freedom of Speech and Religious Tolerance
In the last few weeks, there has been quite a debate in Denmark and in various Muslim communities around the world. The debate goes to whether freedom of speech outweighs the need for tolerance toward religious communities, or at least…
Posted to Politics by Anders Williams on January 4, 2006 10:03 PM

Islam vs. Free Speech: The Case of Denmark
A battle over free speech is brewing between international Muslim groups and the Danish government.
Posted to Politics by Fjordman on November 22, 2005 03:07 PM

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About Eric Olsen

  • Noor Ahmed

    In the name of freedom of press can you do whatever you want. In the name of freedom of press can you draw child porno cartoon or can you draw Mr. george bush is fucking the respected Jesus Chriest? should you do that? We should not polarize the community according to religion. We should not find the differences in religion rather find the similarity in religion. In Islam, muslim have to respect jesus and the bible (in quran, God says I sent jesus as your previous messanger). In bible, once jesus told that after me there will be another messanger of God and you will follow him. Who is more pious that will be decided by God (after death), not by us.

  • http://www.cynicsunlimited.com Cynapse

    Neither side of this debate has a monopoly on virtue. To depict a bomb in the turban of Osama Bin Laden is making a political statement about a group that actually advocates violence. Placing that bomb in the turban of the prophet Muhammad suggests that all Muslims are Osamas waiting to pounce. That said, death threats, harassment and violence are simply unacceptable. Addressing Muslim concerns about discrimination in Europe and Australia becomes difficult when a simple cartoon can spark such extreme intolerance among Muslims.

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle
  • Khaksare Madina

    With these kinds of deeds like cartoons What kind of message Europeon countries wants to give the Muslim World??? That Europeon People are Litrate and figting the battle with Muslim World in Educated Manners. dear if they think so they are all wrong because all these Democracies all these Independance of press humanity and Media are the gifts of Islam given to this whole world. So you will see very soon the answer and reaction of this media war very soon.

  • http://desicritics.org Aaman

    This article in the Times raises interesting points on the issue

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle

    Cynapse:

    I think your comment speaks volumes about the real gap that exists, and that needs to be crossed, respectfully, on both/all sides.

  • Ahmed Khan

    I think media should not be punished for this because they have the freedom to express. What’s going on when media folks are held captive and beheaded in Iraq? Nothin. So, the world should understand that and this is not offensive.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    When a Muslim newspaper prints cartoons mocking Christians or Jews or Hindus or atheists, people in the EU and the US and Israel and India do not go berserk and burn down buildings, issue death threats, kidnap innocent people, or recall their ambassadors.

    The current global chaos over these cartoons is entirely the fault of the “offended” Muslims who are presently rampaging through streets all over the world and demanding blood…

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle

    RJ Elliot wrote “When a Muslim newspaper prints cartoons mocking Christians or Jews or Hindus or atheists, people in the EU and the US and Israel and India do not go berserk and burn down buildings, issue death threats, kidnap innocent people, or recall their ambassadors.”

    they instead bomb whole countries without counting the dead, while looking for the mysterious “al-qaeda” instead on false pretences. and bomb al-jazeera, the media channel offices, for reporting on it.
    You dont know what a riot is in india.

    RJ Elliot wrote:
    The current global chaos over these cartoons is entirely the fault of the “offended” Muslims who are presently rampaging through streets all over the world and demanding blood…

    Wrong. It is entirely the fault of people, who spread malicious hate, without even knowing that it was their ignorance that caused the offence in the first place. they are not the first. they learn.

  • 1Potato

    Several threads are dealing with this subject. I have never seen so many Muslim bloggers before. They never speak up when terrorists strike. Did they all just buy computers this week? Never heard from them after the London or Spain bombings. What B.S.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    I appreciate the fact that Muslims are so outspoken about this issue. It let’s us all know just what sort of folks we are dealing with…

  • Bizzeh

    i think it is really stupid that people are complaining about this, there are christian comic strips all over that depict jesus and god in all sorts of ways. what is wrong with doing it about the muslim faith? its just another reason for them to belive they are being “persicuted” and kick back over nothing.

  • http://i1.tinypic.com/n53onn.jpg Headsake

    Please see my cartoon representing my beliefs about this issue.

  • Kruger

    I am so sick of hearing about muslims. Denmark should print some more cartoons so we can get all the radical badass muslims out in the street protesting and then drop a couple hundred bunker busters on them.

  • Toamas

    JP in 2003 was going to publish some drawings of jesus, but the desided not to coz some christians would fell bad! where was the freedom of speech then??
    and an store had some shoes on slag that had jesus pichter on…they was removed next morning as well! Danish PR had been getting serious reports when the drawing was released but 3 mounths he did´t take any action! they only intend to take it serious when there boycoted! i´ll say good…u decerve it!

  • Mickel

    Danish ppl r respectless………i think only 1% r religious! wat he fuck do they know!
    stupid dans!

  • Alien

    Quite a tennis match!

    Idiots 0
    Morons 0

  • neocondi

    Yes, Christians get outraged, but boycotting is legal and non-violent (i.e. peaceful).

    Moreover, the hypocrisy is glaring because the Muslim world shows no sensitivity to Christians or Jews in either their cartoons or their actions.

    Muslims print hateful anti-Jewish, anti-American cartoons all the time and I have never heard a single apology. They also burn our flag, which I find highly offensive.

  • Alethinos

    With regard to the Muslims: practice what you preach. Stand against the hatred and bigotry flung from the pulpits of your mosques. The Qu’ran preaches tolerance and compassion toward the People of the Book, i.e. Jews and Christians. SHOW IT.

    With regard to the political cartoonists: your behavior via your cartoons is revolting. While there is no excuse for the violence done by those in the Muslim world intent on stirring up trouble – what DID you expect? Do you show Jesus Christ in such a hateful revolting manner because of what HIS followers do – in His name? No. You do not. Have ANY of your read the Qu’ran and are familiar with the life of the Prophet and His Family? What they suffered to bring real civilization to millions of savage people – people who used to bury their daughters ALIVE in the sands of the desert?

    Muhammad nor Christ, nor Moses, nor Krishna, nor Buddha are RESPSONSIBLE for the actions of Their followers. Let’s get that clear. Let us assign the blame SQUARELY where it belongs so often: the priests, preachers, mullas, “holy men” who are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THEY and THEY ALONE know God’s will…

  • Adeel

    Im muslim. And well, the cartoon obviously touched a very sensitive nerve.

    That said,i think the reaction of my fellow muslims to be………extreme.

    But it’s hard to practice what you preach, when what we preach is always being attacked.

    What about the many islamic demonstrations against terrorism?

    Every mosque i have been to almost always runs seminars against terrorism.

    In Juma(friday prayer) there are always sermons that are anti-terrorism.

    So why are these cartoons so full of malice?

  • Adeel.

    And lets face it, arabian news networks are not the most fair news stations in the protrayal of alot of things.

    Hell, MUSLIMS dont take many arabian/muslim news soarces seriosly.

  • Miguel

    Mohammed married a 6-year-old and deflowered her when she was 9. Imagine what would have happened if a cartoon had referred to these acts by the ‘perfect Muslim.’

  • dave

    just get a life…all this religous mess is uncalled for.. just another excuse for the trouble makers in the muslin community to harm their own people, and they wonder why the rest of the world looks down on muslims, its not right but when your people behead, and kill inocent people what to u expect the world to think

  • neocondi

    Adeel, it’s good that your mosque preaches peace.
    So you are not the problem. But you must admit, it’s not just a few bad apples spoiling Islam’s image; it’s more like a hundred million bad apples.

  • Anis

    Dear There,

    I want to clarify that what most terrorists (in the name of Islam) is doing is not considered part of the Islam ideology.
    What alqaeda and others terrorist groups is doing is a kind of a radical politics not an Islam. And prophet Mohamed (Peace Be Upon Him) never considered terrorism when calling for Islam. And Muslims around east-south Asia (more than 500 millions) embarrassed Islam with no war but just because they see something peaceful and merciful in it.
    So please respects others and don’t make fun of there believes (Muslims, Jewish, Christians, Buddhist,…). Be Tolerant.

  • Free Speech

    if all of you people says that talks about free speech ,

    WHY DONT ANY NEWSPAPER TALKS ABOUT SIMETISM ??!!

    you dont DARE to talk about anything that will make jewish people angry

    ok , what about the HULOCOST ?

    and then you say ( F*cking FREE SPEECH )

  • LOL

    i never seen a muslim newspaper making fun of other
    religion , maybe some “death to israel ” or
    “death to america ” but the newspapers never insult someone else
    belief by making some cartoon of their prophet or deity . and miguel dont just write something that
    u just heard or read ont the web , u have a brain right? .

  • Stacey

    Everyone is reacting how the media wants them to. By hurling abuse at each other. What everyone needs to do is stop and realise that there are more important things in this world than a silly made up cartoon by an ignortant person. Remember all the war in the world and all the homeless people. DON’T forget all the sick starving and dieing children in the world. Our anger shouldn’t be about religion everyone has there own beliefs. We should be angry at the goverments in the world who are doing nothing to stop all the pain, torture and suffering. This is 2006 not 1806. There should not still be people starving in the world.

  • Adeel

    Miguel
    The prophet married her because he needed to create a female leader for muslim woman. He also wanted someone to chronical his life.

    He consumated the marriage after MENSTRATION, which at that time signified adult-hood.
    Many christians and jews at that time defined adulthood the same way.

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle

    People, the conversation has degenerated once again – leading towards extremism and violence on both sides.

    Does anyone have any constructive thoughts, especially those who advocated rioting, burning buildings, etc, or those who suggested cluster bombing, or those who think freedom of expression is the god that knows no bounds – not even when it is clearly leading to hurt and violence.

    need to rise above ‘blaming the victim’ on both sides. why ruin the value of tolerance so thoroughly that coexistence becomes difficult.

    what if someone specific is benefiting from this by generating violent public opinion?

    [Link]: Extreme Timing: Freedom and extremism in media

  • tony

    i think all this should of never started in the first place the only person to blame is the editer who drew those pics no need to attack anyones religion it just makes a big mess just like this 1 did. oh by the way i live in australia so those people of all religions here we get along real well.but theirs allways 1 idiot that comes and makes a mess

  • http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle

    cow tse tung wondered:

    Western media “promoting Bin Laden’s agenda of extremism”?

    The power of nightmares documentary [bbc] in 3 parts – it is long but worth watching on the internet! also, cd available on amazon.

    BBC link [menu on right]
    Part I: Baby It’s Cold Outside
    Part II: The Phantom Victory
    Part III: The Shadows in the Cave

    [Link]: or if you prefer WMV format

    best

  • Gordon GoHah Mellencamp Hauptfleisch

    “oh by the way i live in australia so those people of all religions here we get along real well.”

    um, Tony–so those riots in Sydney in December were what, exactly? Some brief little good-natured move-along-nothing-to-see-here flurry of activity?

  • http://bonamassablog.us Joanie

    Christians are regularly depicted in MANY ways via editorial cartoons. Some people complain about that, but they sure don’t go about rioting in the streets!

    The extremes to which some of the Muslim community has gone should be a wake up call to those who are willing to cave in to all their demands. Sorry, but bullying cities and citizens for the opinion of a newspaper or an artist is like napalming an entire neighborhood because one house has cockroaches.

    Gordon – Gotta love the new name, man!

  • mahmoud

    about images i don`t have any comments , but is anyone listen before about muslim insult christians or jewish ? i don`t think so about what happened in new york at 11 sep.. all muslims resfus that and there were muslims dead their , and about what happened in spain or in london , all muslims resfus violent and terrors , , but what i`ve now to say is “islam is right and the most pure religion so they attack it “cause they are afraid . yea afraid cause they know they are wrong, they love money joy not prepare themsleves for death.

  • Kareem

    Shame on Denemark.
    thats all I can say.

  • phil

    to all terrorists please let us good guys know who you are by leaving a threatening blog message here:_____________________________________ …….

  • Salah

    Let me start by saying, Phil u are [Deleted]

    What is Freedom of expresson? is is the right to express your opinion without fear.

    The cartoons that were printed are bordering on incitment of hatred, if i was a dumbass i would look at that bomb on the leader of islam and think that all muslims are terrorists and maybe even hate them. Those editors are hiding behind this right to insult muslims.

    There is a line that cannot be crosses and they strolled past it.

  • Salah

    They werent even funny

  • http://www.fotolog.com/butki13 Scott Butki

    If I said you had no sense of humor but what I said wasn’t actually funny is that really a fair criticism or am I just picking a fight?

    If this is about freedom of expression, how about the newspapers print cartoons offensive to other religions?

  • Naveed

    Though I am disgraced by this event, I am also ashamed by the reaction of muslims. Isam is not about killing and kidnapping. When something offensice happens, point it out peacefully. Being extreme does not help anything. We just received a bad reputation from the world.

  • SilverDesertRain

    This nonsense about Muhammad having sex with a 6 yr old girl is a common misconception and a grave lie flying around the net…
    First of all having premaritual sex is not allowed in Islam. Secondly you cannot marry a girl till she is old enough to bear children. Thirdly a girl has the right to choose or refuse the proposer…the parent cannot force her decision.
    At age 6 the girl was called by her parents and marriage proposal was made my them to Muhammed but no marriage took place. Several years later (when he was old enough to bear children) she was called again and she accepted.
    This was a norm at that time all over the world including the Christians and the Jews.
    For detailed information about this story…please go to http://www.islamalways.com

  • bEEcOOL

    Can we all stop and start to fight the alien???

  • http://journals.aol.com/vicl04/THESAVAGEQUIETSEPTEMBERSUN/ Victor Lana

    First of all, thanks for handling this touchy subject with your usual decorum, Eric.

    That said, the whole issue boils down to “respect” for others’ beliefs and feelings. I am a fervent believer in the freedom of speech, but I would have a problem with any newspaper that allowed a pro-Nazi or pro-KKK cartoon to be published. This goes beyond free speech toward racism and I don’t think that does the public any good.

    Perhaps it seems hypocritical for me to say I believe in freedom of speech but not for these types of things. Yes, cartoons ridiculing Jesus and Catholics have been in plenty of places, but that doesn’t make it right.

    While the furor and outrage over these cartoons is understandable, the violence that has followed is not. In fact, by embarking on a course of violence these fanatics are making the cartoonist seem right (even though we know it’s only a small number of people).

  • Eric Olsen

    wow, I am very happy to see this kind of response – I agree no one is spotless in this. I think all religions deserve respect for the beliefs of their adhereents, but when that respect is perceived to have been violated perhaps rioting in the streets and threats of violence are not the ideal course of action.

    there are some really encouraging signs, though: many clerics have urged calm, Hamas protecting a Christian church in Palestinian territory.

    Among the largest issues at play here: Europe is going to have to come to terms with its burgeoning Islamic underclass, and vice versa.

  • Free World

    My friend in Denmark told me they are putting the american flag with the denmark flag on the floor outside of the mosque’s so people entering and leaving walk all over it as a sign of disrespect. This is bull shit what if we put there koran on the floor of a public washroom so people can walk all over that, how would they feel. Idiots

  • park1878

    with all the trouble that’s already goin on in the world. people can get upset over a few cartoon’s and it’s always religon that cause’s the biggest stink.
    it would be without religon maybe then we can get along.

  • roxyfoxy

    “I am so sick of hearing about muslims. Denmark should print some more cartoons so we can get all the radical badass muslims out in the street protesting and then drop a couple hundred bunker busters on them.”

    And your comments don’t call for a bomb up your ass?
    The reason you hear about so many Muslim terrorists is because that’s all they show on American television. Is Bush not a terrorist? Why is he in Iraq again? Killing innocent children and our young men and women from the armed forces isn’t terrorism?

    I am married to a muslim and since converted from baptist to Islam. I think its unfortunate about the cartoons and I do think it is very disrespectful, but the burning of buildings and hate crimes against the danish isn’t going to change things. This is why the world has so many problems, lack of respect for each other. We all have different views and beliefs. Respect and tolerance for each other is the only thing that can cure all of the hate in the world.

    For those that are blaming Muslims, start looking at yourselves. Your comments are no better than the acts of the terrorists, who, might I add, are not Muslim if they are killing innocent people.

  • Del

    Is Islam so worried it cant be criticized or have fun poked at it ?

    Other religeons coe with it quite well

    Shows how insecure these people are

    I dont mind any religeon, but DONT shove it down my throat

  • Del

    Now come on, how can these terrorists really beleive that they are going to get 21 virgins when they are dead (has anyone comeback and told them it will happen ?)

    can anyone show a religeon that hasnt f**ked up somewhere in the past ?

    Living is the only practical way of keeping meat fresh, when you are dead thats it, end of story

    If I remember correctly, the bible and the
    (Q)Koran were both written years after the actual event, if so, anyone who has played ‘chinese whispers’ will know that they are both a load of bollocks

  • roxyfoxy

    “Is Islam so worried it cant be criticized or have fun poked at it ?”

    Muslims take their religion very seriously. They live for God and the Prophet. Depictions of the Prophet are not allowed in Islam and the way he was depicted was intolerable.
    Poking fun at any religion is not right. Everyone has their own views, like I said before, poking fun and disrespecting a religion is not acceptable. I am not just speaking about the recent cartoons, which were cruel. Do you think its funny to put a bomb on the head of Jesus Christ?
    If people had a little bit more respect for each other and accepted difference, most of the problems going on in this world would be non existent.

  • Eric Olsen

    I believe the cartoons were pointed at specific behaviors contained within the greater religion rather than the religion itself – why is this “intolerable”?

  • Inas

    If Mohammad is that good? Why do they have to use violence to confront the cartoon images? Doesn’t Qur’an include a verse that might be more forceful than terrorism? We can bear intellectual arguements but not them going around like crazy destroying cars and burning buildings. This is not Islam and these are not muslims. I know quite well this religion and I know that it has much more valuable principles than most of the muslims do exhibit.

  • MASR

    Whenever you hear a muslim talking for Isalm, they use the word “bomb” or “kill” somewhere in their passage. GIVEN ALL THIS, WHY CANT ALL THE MUSLIMS GO BACK TO THIER OWN ORIGINIS AND FOLLOW ISLAM THE WAY THEY WANT TO? IF you are in Europe or US, Expect all this. thats the bottomline. Dont bullshit sitting in other countries and bullshitting that own country. go back to pakistan or arabia and have fun there.

  • Bliffle

    “Poking fun at any religion is not right. Everyone has their own views, like I said before, poking fun and disrespecting a religion is not acceptable.”

    On the contrary. Most religions have such a sanctimonious attitude that they NEED to have fun poked at them. Just like anybody or any institution that gets too self-important.

  • Eric Olsen

    I think suggesting they asimilate makes more sense than telling them to “go home.”

  • Yosser Hughes

    A number of Arab newspapers re-printed a series of cartoons yesterday which has angered moderate black’s world wide. The cartoons depict various black leaders and sportsmen in various derogatory situations, calling each one nigger.

    One cartoon showed OJ Simpson slashing a woman’s throat with the caption “Just doing what niggers do”. Another of Martin Luther King getting oral sex, captioned, “The nigger Rev gets a hummer”. In all, 12 cartoons were printed each containing the word nigger with typical caricatures of blacks with thick lips, huge nostrils and generally apelike.

    These and other cartoons angered World leaders calling them insensitive and inflammatory to blacks everywhere. Reactions from Arab newspapers were muted, stating, “We are just taking advantage of our secular press. If blacks don’t like it they don’t have to buy our papers.”

    Reactions from blacks were predictable, thousands rioted in Detroit, burning Mosques and looting Arab shops declaring ‘no justice, no peace’. In downtown LA, Jesse Jackson called for a boycott of all things Arab until the newspapers in question apologized.

    Asked how this compared to the depiction of the Prophet in the Danish newspapers, a Whitehouse spokesman said: “Look, when we offend Arabs its freedom of speech, when they offend us we bomb the crap out of them”

  • Eric Olsen

    interesting analogy, but in reality such a thing would simply confirm what the rest of the world already thinks about the Arab press, and as such there would be complaints but no one would really give a shit.

  • Scott Butki

    I wrote up my take on this issue, from a media perspective.
    I’d be curious to read your response.

  • serpent

    Religion has a way of getting people all excited, even in this forum I see people having a hard time keeping the tone civil. It is regretable, for it is at the core of problem. Freedom of speach is a pillar of western civilization and can not be open to discussion (pun intented ;-)

    My personal feeling is that since all groupings on this earth have different beliefs about what is acceptable we would limit free expression too much if we were to adhere by all the rules of all these people. Since all people are created equal we can not follow the rules of some (just because they are very loud) and not others. Thus freedom of speech must be absolute.

    Should jyllandsposten have posted the cartoons?
    The question is irelevant, since they have the right to do so.

    Does muslims have the right to be offended?
    Yes, they do. But they should engage in dialog not burn down embassies and shout murder in the streets.

    Dont they just prove the point made in the cartoon depicting muhammed with a bomb?!

    Greetings from denmark

  • hounddog

    Please all muslims in a non muslim country go and live in a muslim country and leave the rest of the world in peace. I’m sure that if the rest of the world gives all of you arms, you will kill each other and free us all from a cancer. On the other hand maybe nature will kill us all and then the world will finally be a better place for the animals to live and thrive, oh I forgot the benefit to the plantlive. Or God, Budda, Allah or whoever you believe in will send a giant comet and poof we don’t need an atom bomb anymore ( not even iran).

  • anon

    You know from what i hear 9/11 was a setup by bush administrative. here is the link.

    I think Bush hates islam thats why he goes after islamic countries that can’t defend themselves. why doesn’t he bomb saudi, oh wait becuz he can’t take on them cuz he’s afraid they’ll kick his ass.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Is this what you hear from the voices in your head?

    Dave

  • Bliffle

    ” I think Bush hates islam thats why he goes after islamic countries that can’t defend themselves. ”

    Not true. Bush invaded Iraq and freed 25million muslims from the sectarian rule of Saddam. If it had been my choice I would have left them oppressed under Saddam.

  • http://voices larry

    this person must hear voices in the head. Pres bush hates muslims,absurd!the idea that we leave Saudia Arabia alone because we fear their military, is also absurd. the U.S is without doubt the most powerful nation in the world.if you dont think so invade us

  • Crasher

    Basically….. who really cares. Get over it and move on. A cartoon won’t destroy islam. Stop being so thin skinned!

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    I’ve linked to the actual cartoons in my post on this subject. Go take a look at them. The one with Mohammed with a bomb in his turban is hardly funny, but it’s also not terribly offensive, and the other one is actually quite funny and certainly not offensive in any way. It depicts Mohammed in heaven and not doing anything that could be construed as disrespectful. The fact is that just depicting Mohammed is seen as offensive by these extremists.

    Dave

  • http://http://human-interface.blogspot.com/ gazelle
  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    EO wrote (a while back):

    I think suggesting they asimilate makes more sense than telling them to “go home.”

    I repectfully disagree. The European nations are not built up as lands of opportunity as are America, Canada and Australia. There is no statue in Paris saying “Bienvenue Immigrantes” (pardon my French) as there is in New York Harbor.

    If the Europeans are experiencing a labor shortage, they should hop in bed and produce more laborers the traditional way instead of importing labor and depressing wages. If they don’t want to, then they are paying the well deserved price for their craven short-sightedness.

    Many Moslems have no intent of assimilating, and many Europeans do not want them to. Those who do want to in Europe face barriers far higher than those in America. So, what you suggest is a multi-generational solution that many Europeans and immigrants do not want.

    In the final analysis, it is better for many (albeit not all) of the Moslems to “go home,” bringing with them the knowledge of how to run a society. This knowledge will be a subversive influence undermining the repressive regimes presently in power who benefit from keeping poverty and class differences.

    With time, it could allow Islam to experience a sort of a reformation that would change Arab countries into dynamos of leadership.

  • LOL

    hahaha mayb the papers published the cartoons as a free speech test ..mayb the protesters act violently
    because they wanna test the european tolerance against violent mob??? LOL

    /end stupid joke

  • mrwan

    look m not attacking anyone here and i dont intend 2 do so. but 1st of all f any 1 looks carefully @ the islam he will find that its a peacefull religion ppl dont u c the islamic hi is “peace be upon you”how could such a religion b violent 2nd of all i want 2 reply 2 mr free world when some 1 puts some flag on ground its ok i dont mind put mine on ground walk on it by ur shoes its ur opinion i dont care but dont compare it 2 the holy quran its like comparing the flag 2 the bible “comaprison cant b done “3rd of all mr.del you said that the only way 2 keep meat fresh is 2 keep it alive and death is the end of story hmmm then tell me who created you the first time its god right so he is able 2 bring you back “logic” isnt it like i made a robot its broken oh i can fix it bring it back 2 work “m the one who made it”so wat m saying here is that god created us n the 1st place so he can bring us back again . according 2 wat muslims do all over the world its a shame but u tell me “can any newspaper talk abt anythin’ concernin’ jwesh “”no, it cant “& f they did the newspaper may apologize immediately or even may b closed “”all we sick as muslims is apologize “”just apologize is it that hard “

  • Nidhogg

    This is why I move that all organized religion is bad.

    Yes, the comics were funny. But there is some irony to the situation: The comics portray what we see on the media, the ultra-violent portion of the islamic religion. And as all things of this nature, the muslims played into the hands of the Danes by erupting in such fervor, thereby propogating these caricatures. I had a muslim student in my class that was quite out-spoken on the subject and proposed writing correspondence to the Danish papers over this ‘atrocity.’ I thanked her for the idea, but declined. This is covered by free speech, although many people don’t like it. They, like many, prefer to hide behind free speech when it is in their favour, but cast it down when an ‘offensive’work comes there way. But they have find their way to deal with it, and, certainly, violence is not the answer.

    If you want something to compare these caricatures to, try contrasting them against the slieu, if not hoards, of anti-catholic comics that came out just as all the allegations of sodomy in the church came out. Where was our outrage? Did we, in our not-so-obvious furor, go cavorting about setting fire to catholic cathedrals? Did we recall our cardinals?

    The peaceful muslim communities need to realize that the non-muslim societies are being fed perverted images of their religion, solely-based on the ‘terrorist’ attitude of the fanatics. But the problem doesn’t lie with that population, it lies with our own media: They have to compete for ratings, and higher ratings means more money. So what do they do to get higher ratings? Publish bloodier, gorier stories that slake mankind’s natural bloodlust. (If you doubt me, why did the gladiatorial games of the Roman era draw so many people in? I’ll stand corrected if someone can give me a valid, credible, and legitimate reason) The media requires a somewhat sensational pizzazz to give them a boost with viewers.

    But not all media sources are bad. You just have to know which ones to believe and which ones to take cum grano salis.

  • metal head

    This is just craziness. Sure some mosks or whatever the hell they call their “church” is give some face time to the outside world about being anit terorists. That is kind of like the nazis saying that hey you know you realy shouldnt kill jews. The islamist faccists have learned how to play the p.c. game. They say what the media wants to hear while planning to kill us behind our backs. By the way there is a reason they call them Islamic faccists they have more in common with the nazis than they will ever admit. I dont understand how somepeople in this country cant see that we are at war! These people are the enemy and should be treated as such. Now I understand why the internment camps were set up during ww2. We should reinstitute them and intern all [edited] that are here in the U.S. This is a war of freedom vs. religious intolarance and the intolerance isnt from the “religious right”. They dont like us they want to kill us so we should kill them before they have the chance this will only be over when the survivors in the middle east are glowing in the dark.

  • http://desicritics.org Aaman

    The level of personal attacks that get tolerated on these threads is stunning

  • Nidhogg

    No offence, but there’s really no way to police threads without having to go through and read every comment which takes an infinite amount of time considering the time it takes to read it vs. the amount of comments posted

  • http://desicritics.org Aaman

    I know, to rephrase, the level of personal attacks that gets generated on these threads is stunning.

  • Nidhogg

    I’m sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, it is amazing that mankind can be so callous to each other. But in the end, it means nothing.

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    LOL, Nidhogg. Good name choice.

    Dave

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    First, they came for the cartoons, and I said nothing.

    And I LIVED TO TELL ABOUT IT.

  • ORC

    hmmm … no offence to Danish or anyone else including Muslims

    but as I see and believe , I believe Israel have it’s receipt in this cocking

    and they cock it real good this time.

  • firdooze

    To tell you the truth, I feel sad for ANY religion that has been mocked especially by the media. I am a believer of free speech, but to what extent does free speech hold? Think about that….

    Will there be a time when anyone wants to say anything they want and get away with it? Yes it’s funny on the surface but the implications that underlie the “free speech/expression” could bring more harm then good. Look at the big picture for heaven sake! Do you want to live in a world where people can mock you or what you believe in, belittle your family or your friends? Or burn the bible/koran in your face and get away with it? What about mocking your birth country? What if one day some Asian dude comes out to the media and say nasty stuffs about the Europeans that you’d disagree with totally?

    Please! Free speech has its limits. Issues that are sensitive should be dealt with in a subtle way. I’m not addressing to the westerners only but to the world, as humans. Is it creative to deal with an issue with mocking ways? Is it more creative to deal with the issue in a more politically/societally correct way? For god sakes that’s the reason why Universities around the world offer political science for a degree.

    In my honest opinion, I condemn the terrorist attacks done by some of the Muslims. To say that Islam is not the only one with terrorists (compared with KKKs and what nots) is just one bull crap and another reason for them to create violence. But in true nature, I must agree that these actions are undertaken by minorities. These people are mislead to think that “jihad” is to kill. Islam by itself a very humane way of life. One have to understand and know more about a religion to comment.

    I’m not very sure about this but I must say that the media is gaining a lot from this she-bang. And it’s has really been blown over proportion: 1st by them knowing that it will cause chaos and still going ahead publishing the pictures. 2nd by making lots of fuss and creating much of an issue about it. 3rd Gaining all the credits and your penny worth of self-induced-troubled news which to me is ridiculous. I say its folly.

    I’m not all out for full media censorship. But a certain degree of publishing ethics should be imposed.

  • wanderer

    “Personal attacks are not allowed. Please read our comment policy”..muahhahaha!!…yeah right..and here we are talking bout freedom of speech..if all of u out there are so free to talk..how bout start swearing without the words getting censored..owh we cant do that now can we..y? coz somebody will get offended…but if we constraint ourselves then we arent really free to speak…owh y do we care bout somebody getting offended?…freedom of speech my foot..

  • Nidhogg

    Dave- Thanks. Finally someone caught on.

    Firdooze- Point taken, but when do we draw the line on what can and cannot be printed? And once the government takes those steps towards publishing ethics, will they continue to choke the free-press until we have something like that of China?

    Wanderer- As far as I’m concerned, I’m glad the forbid some words from being posted. Those words should not be used in civilized discourse.

  • gonzo marx

    hey wanderer…fuck that..we can use any words we like…

    but i digress…

    Aleinthos sez…
    *Let us assign the blame SQUARELY where it belongs so often: the priests, preachers, mullas, “holy men” who are ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THEY and THEY ALONE know God’s will…*

    Quoted for Truth…

    nuff said?

    Excelsior!

  • Nidhogg

    Amen? So much b/s comes from those who interpret the word of the divinely inspired books. Do yourself a favor, read the Bible/Quran/book of your chosen religion, and interpret it yourself.

  • Sicntired

    I remember Muslims dancing and celebrating in the streets after 9/11. I was told not to be offended, it’s not the majority of Muslims that feel that way. This is about cartoon right? All this violence over a cartoon? Uneducated; unsanitary people. Makes me sick. Developed nations should stay out of the Middle East and let the fuckers kill themselves.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    wanderer: freedom of speech my foot.

    In addition to Freedom of Speech, there is one other Western concept that Islam will never be able to understand, and that is Property Rights, and more specifically the relationship between these two foundational principles.

    You are the King on your own property. The owners of a certain property known as blogcritics.org can set whatever rules they damn well please about what kind of speech is going to be allowed. That doesn’t have anything to do with what other people are allowed to say on their own property, or on other people’s property. Thus it does not nullify the general First Amendment constitutional protections of Free Speech.

    So you Muslims have the same rights westerners have to be able to say whatever you want to say on your own properties (your websites, your radio stations, your newspapers, etc.) And if you exercise that right in a civilized manner – not calling for non-Mulsims to be murdered for exercising their Free Speech rights in ways that might offend you – then you can hope to be successful by rational persuasion at influencing us infidels to voluntarily stop being disrespectful towards your religion and Prophet (pbuh).

    We will even go so far as to tolerate you criticizing the very Freedom of Speech that allows you to speak your mind. But be careful. For as long as you keep on trying to get our governments to step in and FORCIBLY restrain us from being able to exercise our Free Speech right to criticize and poke fun at you (especially while hypocritically expecting to enjoy the freedom to criticize US), you will get ablsolutely nowhere. In fact you will only alienate yourselves even futher, and provoke even more negative atitudes, because you will be perceived (correctly) as enemies of the very most basic foundations of cherished Western values.

  • wahid

    i ask the danish news paper if she really likes
    freedom , to attack the JEWS or draw a picture to jesus like thise if it really is a free newspaper , i believe they are just cowards
    and can never do , they are just descreminators
    rather than any thing else………………

  • hounddog

    well well, i have now seen the pictures that were published regarding the muslim christ, they are not worse than what the muslim press has previously printed about jesus, budha and krishna, so why don’t we tit for tat a little, and torch a few muslim embassys and a few of their religous houses in our christian, hindi and budhist countries. the muslims have a cancer in their midst that they should cut out themselves, called “religous stupidity as well as terrorist leaning”, if they don’t do it themselves and try to live with the rest of the world, then the rest of the world will eventually be the surgeon and that will not be as pretty as when they do it themselves. educating their masses of poor would be a good start instead of keeping them ignorant, so the can be easily manipulated to become terrorists.

  • beast

    They have a 3% tolerance of christians. They kill the rest of the infidels.

  • beast

    There are no Margarets, and no Matthiews in islamic countries.

  • roxyfoxy

    why doesn’t he bomb saudi, oh wait becuz he can’t take on them cuz he’s afraid they’ll kick his ass.

    He’s afraid they’ll withdraw the millions they invested in his oil company in Texas.

    All this violence over a cartoon? Uneducated; unsanitary people. Makes me sick.

    If you knew anything about TRUE Muslims, you would know that they are quite sanitary. Try researching before posting.

    I spoke to my husband about the riots and burning of buildings over these cartoons. He is MUSLIM and says these are the people that get crazy in the religion. Just like any religion you have extremists.

    How did you feel on 9/11? Pissed off and out for revenge. Our military has been there for how long blowing shit up? Killing their women and children? I’d be burning flags too.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    Gee, I didn’t realize Muslims allowed “foxiness” in their women. Can you actually display that on the street, out in public? Is there a special burkah that is not totally opaque, or do you do it all just with your eyes?

  • jack_from_noi

    What would Mohammed do if someone made fun of him?

  • firdooze

    Nidhogg: The extent of censorship has to be dealt with individual countries. Yes its a fine line and its difficult to see the line. But of course not that extreme like China. And I’m not talking about really information supression but ceiving sensitive expressions or express it in a way that would be less likely to cause any uproar.

  • roxyfoxy

    Allowed? You do realize women and men are equal, right? Oh, and most likely the Muslims you are referring to that don’t allow “foxiness” in their women are the ones from the oppressed Muslim Countries, Iraq, Iran……

    How about the Americans who oppress their women? That beat their women? That rape your mothers, sisters, daughters? Do you not see that as terrorism? Look at the violence and discrimmination we face in our own country we are by no means a good example and definetly not in the place to judge.

    For that last question, if it was directed by me, Mohommed isn’t the one you should be worried about, its God/Allah. Oh, and for you uneducated, God and Allah are the same.

  • firdooze

    jack: he won’t do anything. during the period when he was spreading the religion, he went through worse. but he did not do anything in retaliation.

    I know its such a contrast in Muslim world now. I think its inivitable that there would be people who would create trouble. And like many muslims would agree, very few people can depict the way Mohammad go about in his way of life.

  • firdooze

    roxyfoxy: Seriously, I think Islam is the few religion that recognize woman as equal to man. Not entirely but to a certain extent that they can actually be placed almost at the same status as man. But the problem is that the middle easterners have been since eons ago before Islam been harsh to woman. Hard habits are hard to break? But if you look at woman in Islamic world like in Malaysia. Singapore, they receive equal treatment from men.

    where can you find a religion that gives the power of the path to heaven to a mother? Or the right to have the husbands will to his wife and not entirely to his sons? The fact that woman are allowed to practice the religion as much as the men could says alot on how the religion is for quality between genders.

  • Jack from NOI

    firdooze: Malaysia and Singapore are considered moderate because they are far from the core of Islam source land – Saudi Arabia. The closer a country to Saudi Arabia, the crazier it is. In other word, Malaysia and Singapore are still mixed with secular values. The crazyiness of Islam ideology is progressively hijacking the culture of other countries.

    As for status of woman in Islam, I like your view towards the status of woman, but is it the view of your Islam?

    What religion says “a woman is inferior than a man”?

    What religion says “the majority of people is woman.”?

    What religion allows a man to marry 4 wives and has sex with numerous sex slaves?

    What religion is crazy enough to ask a raped woman for 4 witnesses to justify her being raped otherwise she is verdicted committing adultery and stoned to death?

  • Dawn

    Did someone really just write that Islam is a religion that recognizes women as equal to men?

    Holy shit, what a load of camel dung.

    While there are certainly lots of enlightened Muslims who may consider women equal to men, or at least pretend, most of the free world doesn’t even accept that women are equal to men, so that’s a pretty damn funny comment.

    Yes, wearing a burka and being thrown in jail for being raped is my idea of equal.

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    Somehow, I don’t remember the Bible saying that men and women were equal and I think the Bible was used to justify the subjugation of women and non-whites in America so I’d actually like to see quotes and the translation listed when discussing Islam.

    Although Buddha didn’t say that men and women were equal, cultural practices and attitudes in Japan and China made this assertion. I see similar problems in evaluating Islam and Christianity.

    There were, after all, European Christian nations that lagged behind Islamic countries in giving women the vote.

    In actuality, I only know of one religion that writes men and women are equal, comparing them to two wings of a bird.

    The world of humanity is possessed of two wings: the male and the female. So long as these two wings are not equivalent in strength, the bird will not fly. Until womankind reaches the same degree as man, until she enjoys the same arena of activity, extraordinary attainment for humanity will not be realized; humanity cannot wing its way to heights of real attainment. When the two wings . . . become equivalent in strength, enjoying the same prerogatives, the flight of man will be exceedingly lofty and extraordinary

    –Abdu’l-Bahá, Promulgation, p. 375.

    In the Baha’i Faith the education of women is considered more important than the education of men.

    The majority of people in the world are women.

    To better understand why people are rioting, I think one should consider why people rioted in Los Angeles (both times). For people that are oppressed, what is the last straw?

  • roxyfoxy

    “here can you find a religion that gives the power of the path to heaven to a mother?”

    In the Quran it says a mother has one foot inside of heaven. I will find the quote and post it here.

    “hat religion allows a man to marry 4 wives and has sex with numerous sex slaves?”

    It is true, an islamic man can have 4 wives, provided the first wife agrees to this and the man can provide every wive with the same things.

    “he closer a country to Saudi Arabia, the crazier it is. ”
    Turkey is close to Saudi Arabia, it is probably the freest of the Islamic Countries.

  • Dawn

    Yes, “that woman” has one foot inside heaven because her husband has a machete poised to smack her down should she step out of line.

    Enough with this already, it’s a falsehood, even if scripture says it, cultural practice rules the day and gender equality and the Islamic faith are at odds with one another.

  • firdooze

    Maybe you are kinda stereotyping and you don’t know the full practices of Islam. I don’t blame you because what people hear and see usually comes from a second hand source (media, heresay, etc) rather than from the Islamic teachers..

    Yes a man can marry 4 wives. But for him to marry four wives is a real burden for that man, period. blah blah blah) And that if only the 1st wive agree upon. But I must agree that to a certain extent, these practices might have been misused by men, who “pretends” to interpret the sources correctly and refrain from the MUST which is the obligations that man have to face before they get more than 1 wife. Thus, if really you wanna follow the rules that’s laid down for marrying more than 1, it’s kinda not feasable.

    For a woman wearing a burkah, you are seriously looking at it at a westernized way. look at it in a more conservertive way. It cannot be argued that men are generally lusty. So if you looked at it in that point of view, it is actually protecting the woman rather than troubling them.

  • firdooze

    Dawn: I must agree with you. At the end of the day, its the culture and the nature of the race and not the religion. The middle easterners have been known to be like that way before Islam or even Christianity.

    Now then, do you understand why the Torah, Bible and the Koran are passed to people from middle east decent?

  • Eric Olsen

    PT, I was not under the impression that Denmark is oppressing anyone

  • EZ

    The thing that intrigues me is that a CARTOON caused this ruckus! I’m glad art is so powerful, despite the results. Maybe more folks will got to art school instead of the army; the pen is mightier than the sword.

  • hounddog

    are the teheran newspapers and the iranian governement to afraid to print cartoons of jesus, budha and also their own idol, and instead use the holocost as an excuse for more violence, as they would then have the whole world against them, are all muslims stupid, or just happy to kill, even their own all the time
    to all non muslims: boycott all wares, including oil from the muslim countries all over the world, as mentioned in a prior message tit for tat

  • hounddog

    hello kareem

    shame on all muslims, that is all i have to say

  • hounddog

    i wonder if the muslim prophet would agree with the way his followers now interpet his teachings, or would he let the medianians catch him, so the world would be a more peaceful place now

  • roxyfoxy

    “For a woman wearing a burkah, you are seriously looking at it at a westernized way. look at it in a more conservertive way. It cannot be argued that men are generally lusty. So if you looked at it in that point of view, it is actually protecting the woman rather than troubling them.”

    This is a very good point, but I just want to point out that women are not forced to wear them. It is an option in the Quran. The men and leaders of the oppressed Muslim countries have forced their women to wear them. But, as we all know, the West is more civilized and a lot further along with technology. These people are still living during the old times.

    “are the teheran newspapers and the iranian governement to afraid to print cartoons of jesus, budha and also their own idol, and instead use the holocost as an excuse for more violence, as they would then have the whole world against them, are all muslims stupid, or just happy to kill, even their own all the time”

    Its so unfortunate that you fail to educate yourself with the religion before posting. It is against islamic law to depict any of the prophets, Jesus Christ included. Look at the Christian churches, they all have some depiction of Jesus, but how do they know what he looks like? And if you haven’t educated yourself, you will know that Jesus was from the Middle East, but why is he depicted as a white man with light brown hair? Would it have anything to do with the prejudice that our country was built on against all people who have a different skin tone? Yes, america is now declared “free”, but its people like you that still class human beings in a color coded box.

    “i wonder if the muslim prophet would agree with the way his followers now interpet his teachings, or would he let the medianians catch him, so the world would be a more peaceful place now”

    The muslims who are acting out this way are wrong, we all know that. They are taking the words in the Quran and twisting them around. Do you see Muslims in the US or Canada acting this way? No, because they wanted to get away from the barbaric lands they came from.

    Must we not forget that America was a land of barbaric laws and inequality. Did we all forget about slavery? Segregation which only ended in the 60’s? Or how about the fact that women couldn’t even vote until the 20’s? Yes, that may have been a while ago, but it did happen, and women and african americans (moreso than women) are still put in a category and suffer prejudice every day.

    I’ll say it again, the world is the way it is because of people like you who can’t accept difference.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious,com/ Richard Brodie

    The muslims who are acting out this way are wrong, we all know that.

    No. They are the ones who follow what the Koran clearly teaches.

    They are taking the words in the Quran and twisting them around.

    No. It is you so-called “moderate” Muslims who have “twisted” the Koran’s words. “Moderate” is just what the word implies. You have “moderated” (i.e. modified) the plain teachings of the Koran to be palatable to what you call the “more civilized West.”

    Example:

    Surah 9:5–“The Repentance”

    Slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.

    The so-called “extremists” don’t try and twist these words around and weasel out from the obvious meaning that it boils down to:

    Kill non-muslims.

    The moderates, on the other hand will try and explain it away, saying that it only refers to a “spiritual” jihad – that it’s only talking about “slaying” one’s own inner idolatrous tendencies.

    It’s pretty obvious who is doing the linguistic twisting, and squirming here. I’m sorry but even Tammy Faye Baker couldn’t put enough lipstick on this ideological pig to make it attractive.

  • EZ

    All ye artists! Cartoonists! Caricaturists! Lampooners! Rise up! Now’s the time to be heard!! Attentions are high and Senses of Humor are at all-time low! draw like the wind!!!

  • hounddog

    re nr. 9 mohammed: dear mohammed, cutting your own lifeline with a boycott, there are already many that boycott wares from muslim countries including oil, keep it up and you will have more hungry and poor people, unless you can kill all your rich and take their goods, but somehow i feel they wont like that too much

    re Nr. 10 michael: arent you a bit radical, the fallout would kill the rest of us in the world, which i personally wouldn’t mind so much as long as it is fast and painless, can you guarantee that, no i worry a bit about the animals and flora, but i just heard about all the 100 and more black holes in our part of the universe, maybe the the gods of all religions are merciful and send one closer

    re Nr. 15 bangarti: the 3% of danish goods that were exported to the islamic world will hardly slow down the danish economy, or hurt it

    now for my part: so many people have written so much rubbish, including myself that i shall sign off and let others write more bad language

    to bad that humans just hate hate hate, animals kill and destroy to live, humans kill and destroy out of pleasure

  • roxyfoxy

    “No. It is you so-called “moderate” Muslims who have “twisted” the Koran’s words.”

    First off, I am a converted muslim who left christianity for the faith. I know both sides of the coin. For that quote you posted, please, quote what was before and after it. I am pretty sure you just went to a webpage, copy and posted what you found. Did you read this by any chance? If you did you would know what it was referring to.

    Have you read the bible lately?

    Genesis 3
    To the woman he said: ‘I shall give you intense pain in childbearing,you will give birth to your children in pain. Your yearning will be for
    your husband, and he will dominate you.’

    Genesis 19
    They had not gone to bed when the house was surrounded by the townspeople, the men of Sodom both young and old, all the people without exception. Calling out to Lot they said, ‘Where are the men who came to you tonight? Send them out to us so that we can have intercourse with them.’Lot came out to them at the door and, having shut the door behind him,said,’Please, brothers, do not be wicked. Look, I have two daughters who are virgins. I am ready to send them out to you, for you to treat as you please, but do nothing to these men since they are now under the protection of my roof.’

    Deuteronomy 12
    You must completely destroy all the places where the nations you dispossess have served their gods, on high mountains, on hills, under any spreading tree;you must tear down their altars, smash their sacred stones, burn their sacred poles, hack to bits the statues of their gods and obliterate their name from that place.

    Is the Bible really any different than the Quran? No where in the bible does it say to respect women and the mothers of your children.

    Although I don’t agree with the last persons views, I do agree with signing off. You people are rediculous.

  • Bliffle

    “With these kinds of deeds like cartoons What kind of message Europeon countries wants to give the Muslim World???”

    Uhhh, maybe that we argue with words, not bombs?

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    So when is an Islamic Christ going to appear on the scene and “do away” with the old law (namely Islam’s equivalent of the Old Testament, the Koran) and usher in the new law of Love?

    Never. Because Mohammed foreclosed on that possibility by proclaiming that HE was the final prophet. And if Muslims profess with their mouths so much about honoring Jesus, then why do they not profess it with their hearts by practicing his Beatitudes, even if they don’t want to accept that he was the only begotten Son of Allah (Elohim) in the flesh?

    please, quote what was before and after it.

    So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

    I’m an unbeliever. Do you believe that Allah is going to bring disgrace to me and all other non-Muslims?

    announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

    I disbelieve. As a Muslim convert from Christianity, please tell me what kind of a “painful punishment” you think is appropriate for my crime of not deciding to become a Muslim.

    surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)

    I accept no duty towards Allah. Do you think Allah does not love me? Which brings us to verse five, which I now quote in it’s entirety:

    So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    Clearly it is saying that the only way to escape the edge of Islam’s bloody sword is to repent (of disbelief) – that is, become a praying Muslim.

    And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.

    Gosh how kind and merciful of Allah. If you are an idolator (non-believer) who at least waves a white flag, you get a chance to escape being slain. You’ll be able to receive instruction from the Koran, and the previous verse makes it clear what you will have to do – repent of your disbelief, and convert to Islam – that’s your ticket to “attaining your place of safety.”

    I will spare you continuing on through the rest of the 129 verses. This is plenty of context for any rational person to draw their own accurate conclusions, and my conclusion is the Mohammed was a brilliant military strategist who wrote the Koran for the purpose of terrorizing his followers with threats of Hellfire into being afraid ever to defect from his authority. This Surah in particular has served as a blueprint for the Islamic conquest, subjugation, and annihilation of one culture after another over the course of the last 1400 years. The subjugation of Canaan by the children of Israel in Joshua’s time pales to insignificance by comparison. All they wanted was the land of Israel. Islam dreams of subjugating the Earth.

  • roxyfoxy

    “I’m an unbeliever. Do you believe that Allah is going to bring disgrace to me and all other non-Muslims? ”

    Nobody knows who is going to heaven or who is going to hell. All you can do is believe in what you believe, do everything for God, and pray that you will go to a good place. Are you saying that you are a non-believer of God or just Islam? Because in the Quran it states that any religion that believes in one God is a believer.

  • Justin Berry

    “Is the Bible really any different than the Quran? No where in the bible does it say to respect women and the mothers of your children.”

    Ephesians 5:25-30.

  • Long(Denmark)

    What have we learn in this case?

    One of the biggest gain, I think in this cricis. That we have learn ours self how much, the musli m people are different from muslim to muslim.

    That most of the 1.3 milliard muslim in the world just wish to live in peace and harmoni, and dont see any purpose to cast into destruction and violence for just some cartoons.

    And a big part of the muslim people in the world is poor, so the can not really boycut the danish industri.

    As for the imam, Abu Hamza al-Masri from England, who was trying to convince all muslim, that it is allowed to kill all non muslim. and he was sentence for 7 years in jail for that.

    Imamen`s belongs to a dangerous categori. of extremists, that is only using their religion as a weapon to bring had and destruction.

  • nEzT

    I still think Muslims are wrong in this case , why u want to replace ink with blood ? , and those drawn wont be OFFSENSIVE and Muslims wont be OFFENDED if its not telling the TRUTH

  • hounddog

    dear #111
    roxyfoxy

    I wasn’t going to place anymore useless words, but i suppose you forced me.

    “i wonder if the muslim prophet would agree with the way his followers now interpet his teachings, or would he let the medianians catch him, so the world would be a more peaceful place now”

    The muslims who are acting out this way are wrong, we all know that. They are taking the words in the Quran and twisting them around. Do you see Muslims in the US or Canada acting this way? No, because they wanted to get away from the barbaric lands they came from.

    come now don’t tell me that all muslims can’t read the koran, especially if they bury their beards in the book most of the time. it says kill all non believers, that is me and the rest of the world except the muslims, but we are still more than you, so maybe that is why the moslems that left their groovy countries shut up, given a chance, they would try to convert or kill us all so called nonbelievers. someone here said your prophet was a good general, but did he have to close the door to furtherment of the future (you are all living in the past, when the moslems still enriched the earth with wisdom, but those days are centuries gone)
    by the way, i’m not an american and live in a different part of the world. i still feel we have the right to defend ouselves. the scientists are looking for an effective cure for cancer and all the other ills in the world, maybe the’ll find one against all misguided religions as well, but then all religions are misguided to keep the masses down. one of your comments here:
    “I’ll say it again, the world is the way it is because of people like you who can’t accept difference.”
    i can accept differences, just not willing murder in the name of religion or politics

    have a good life, as long as your religious compatriots let you live (if you live in a western country, be glad you are wrongly protected by our benign laws)

  • firdooze

    “So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.

    I’m an unbeliever. Do you believe that Allah is going to bring disgrace to me and all other non-Muslims?

    announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.

    I disbelieve. As a Muslim convert from Christianity, please tell me what kind of a “painful punishment” you think is appropriate for my crime of not deciding to become a Muslim.

    surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty)

    I accept no duty towards Allah. Do you think Allah does not love me? Which brings us to verse five, which I now quote in it’s entirety:

    So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    Clearly it is saying that the only way to escape the edge of Islam’s bloody sword is to repent (of disbelief) – that is, become a praying Muslim.

    And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know. ”

    Seriously, I guess you either no nuts about this verse or you really don’t care (with the intention to tarnish the religion).

    My dear friend, this verse has nothing to do with non-believers being slayed because they don’t believe or killed just for the sake of killing. Its actually a verse relating to a treaty that was made during the time of Mohammad.

    The first sentence shows that God is Almighty and even if you don’t believe in God, God will not be frustrated or angered.

    You obviously ommitted lots of the 2nd sentence which goes, “If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith.”

    It doesn’t mean that you’ll be tortured by humans or Muslim or whoever. The punishment refers to works of God not man. Similar to committing a sin.

    And for your weak argument : “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. ”

    This is the part when God is talking about the Pagans whom the Muslims have made a treaty to. At that time, many of them actually broke the treaty, causing a war. This sentence actually shows how mercifull God is. It shows that even if those Pagans break those treaties, if they repent by doing any of those mentioned above (pray or help the poor), the Muslims must spare them from the war.

    “And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.”

    What this sentence mean is that if any of those Pagans who broke the trust of Muslims during that war, seek help or shelter, the Muslims must shelter them. And in turn, he might hear the word of God.

    And for your information, Islam is not a religion that is imposed on someone. Islam believes that if you don’t want to believe than its your own decision because God is Almighty. Islam do not impose their religion onto anyone like how I know some religion tries to.

    And one last note; many a times, the meaning of the Quran is lost in translation. That is why, the Koran is preserved through time in Arabic, the language that it was first written and told. (now you know why Islam don’t regard the modern day Anglicized Bible as a reputable source for reference in Islam as it went through many translations from the original language, Aramaic) There are many Arabic words that the English counterparts don’t provide adequately or not of the same meaning. So if you wanna understand the Koran, you got to learn the language first, then decipher for yourself. You don’t need to be a Muslim to read the Koran.

    Lastly, it is good to really understand the other religion (myself, I was in a christian school since 4yrs till i was 18) not to belittle or put them down (you have the right to your own believe) but to actually understand the people practicing them and in turn will foster more tolerance towards every other religion. Enough said.

  • roxyfoxy

    Hounddog, when I said the world is the way it is because of people like you, I was referring to all of the people who put Muslims down because of what other “muslims” do. I put muslims in quotes because anybody who is resorting to violence is not amuslim. Islam is a peaceful religion that does not promote violence.

    No baptist, no catholic, no protestant, no muslim, nobody regardless of their faith, believer or not, can say who is going to heaven and who is going to hell or what will happen when we get where we are going. All we can do is believe in what we believe and do our best in life to get where we want to go. If you are a nonbeliever, then that is up to you. But I am not God therefore saying you will be tortured or saved is not my call.

    Its unfortunate that so many people are so hateful, including in the Islamic world. The good muslims, or TRUE muslims believe that this violent protesting is wrong and useless. Instead of watching TV and reading the newspapers talking about all of the wrong things about Islam, try going to this website: http://www.fethullahgulen.com

  • Scott Butki
  • Muhammad Rahim

    dear hounddog: comment #122

    please show me in the Quran where Allah instructs muslims to kill all “non-believers”. That would be pretty dumb since the Prophet’s uncle died in old age of natural causes and he was a “non-believer”, and not a single person did any harm to him because of his non-belief!

    When you all make statements like that…….it’s out of ignorance and mis-interprting the context of what you are reading!

    One other thing to remember….. the words of the Quran are Allah’s words, not Muhammad’s. If any punishment is spoken of…. it’s from the hands of God, not any man.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    dear firdooze:

    i’m glad you spoke about the treaty breakers that repatedly broke treaties with the muslims 1400 years ago that those verses are refering to. These enemies were well known for breaking peace treaties with the muslims and attacking them during times of truce, catching them off guard and slaying men, woman and children! Yeah Islam is a religion of peace… but when you break that peace, it also allows the muslims to fight. And so does all the other religions. So lets not pretend that other religions are peaceful all of the time and Islam is the only violent one. No, each one has peace and violence in it history! like yin and yang. But peace is the ultimate objective of all religions, but man is not yet perfected to choose peace over violence. That’s why Jesus prayed for “peace-be-with you” and so did Muhammad…. As-Salaam Alaikum (peace be with you). Both of them died knowing that PEACE was a long way off.

  • Eric Olsen

    the ban on images of M. is political and originates from the radical Islamist movement that spawned al Qaeda. There are examples of his image throughout Muslim history.

    Neither should non-Muslims paint all Muslims as Islamist radicals

  • Nancy

    Dear Muhammad Rahim,

    I’m interested to read your comments, since you are not only Muslim, but also write excellent English so I’m able to understand your points pretty well.

    I would say that a major part of the problem is universal: as in Christianity, there is a substantial percentage of believing Muslims who “know” the Qu’ran, but don’t really understand it, or misinterpret it. Christian fundamentalists in the US (and abroad, I’m sure) do it with the Bible all the time: they’re always pronouncing that “God says this” and “God hates that”, when even a cursory familiarity with Christian traditions & biblical teaching shows the exact opposite, so that in fact they end up perverting what they wholeheartedly suppose they’re defending.

    In the US, these mistaken religious fundamentalists also take a lot of criticism & mockery for it in all the branches of the media, and from all parts of the public as well; witness the storm of scorn & mockery heaped on Pat Robertson recently for his various outrageous comments involving religious statements.

    From what I’ve read & heard, this is the same situation in Muslim parts of the world: fervent believers who are misled by leaders who misinterpret the Qu’ran and Islam, either through ignorance or promoting their own agendas. In either case, the unthinking are being led by the unscrupulous &/or erring.

    On top of all this, there’s also a major disconnect between Western & Muslim attitudes, in that it would seem that Muslims do not understand that non-Muslims in general expect that anyone and or anything is liable to be subjected to mockery, discourtesy, & disrespect … and while the target of such mockery may resent it, aside from verbal protests (or at the most extreme, filing a lawsuit against the offenders), it is allowed & (in matters of public persons like leaders, including religious leaders or figures in history like the various popes, or even persons such as Jesus or Mohammad) even encouraged as a means of keeping otherwise near-omnipotent institutions which use these persons as their “authority” in their place, so to speak.

    Unlike in the asian or middle-eastern countries, western society doesn’t really have a concept of “face”, which allows opposition parties to maintain their dignity; in the west, it’s always been ‘winner take all’. I suspect this is another major factor in the current troubles.

    Your thoughts on this? Thanks.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious,com/ Richard Brodie

    So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    This sentence actually shows how mercifull God is.

    No. It shows that Allah is the asshole of the universe – or it would if he existed. But he doesn’t. He was a fictional character in Mohammed’s novel, the Koran. So what it shows is that Mohammed and his “religion” of Submission (to HIS ideas) was and continues to be the asshole of this earth. There is no point in this Surah, if not to serve as an inspiration to Mohammed’s successors to carry out the conquests, forced conversions, and extinguishment of whole cultures – which is what has happened all the way from Morocco to Maylasia over the last 1400 years.

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    Arabs and Muslims are a minority in Denmark. How they are treated is questionable.

    In recent years, Denmark has been lurching rightward and turning increasingly hostile to Islam and Muslims (who now make up about 4% of the population). It is becoming distressingly commonplace to see headlines about prominent Danish figures openly expressing prejudice against Islam, and mainstream parties are working increasingly closely with hardline nationalist (and, of course, Muslim-baiting) parties that were once rightly viewed as beyond the pale. It’s gotten so bad in Denmark–and I’m sorry to say so as someone whose maternal side of the family is there and who has long taken pride in Denmark’s once enlightened policies–that a prominent pundit in neighboring Sweden declared Denmark the most xenophobic country in Europe. By all accounts, inter-communal relations in Denmark (which for the most part are Muslim/non-Muslim relations) are becoming worryingly strained and beset with prejudice and misunderstandings. This is the essential political and social backdrop to Jyllands-Posten’s attacks on the Prophet, and it missing from the Muslim WakeUp piece and so many other discussions.

    The insensitivity of the cartoons suggests they (Muslims and Arabs) are not treated well. This constitutes oppression. What happened in France also indicates this type of oppression is not limited to Denmark.

  • firdooze

    “He was a fictional character in Mohammed’s novel, the Koran. So what it shows is that Mohammed and his “religion” of Submission (to HIS ideas) was and continues to be the asshole of this earth.”

    Quoted from Arabic Poets (of most who are non-believers) who were living at the time when the Prophet Mohammad recited it for the first time to all of them: “… there’s no poem that we’ve heard that is so beautiful as your Quran … it can’t be the work of Man, surely the work of God … ”
    Arabic poets till today still read the Quran as a source of inspiration for them (including the staunch non-believers). Try listening to one of the simplest verse, Al-Ikhlas and you’ll find how rythemic and poetic it sounds. No doubt that it is not the work of Man

  • Nancy

    Firdooz, very unfortunately, the poetry & classicism of the very “pure” Arabic of the Qu’ran don’t translate into English at all. For a non-Arabic speaker, listening to the spoken Qu’ran sounds like alien gabble. I did get a copy of a recording from my library, and it was (of course, since I don’t speak/understand it) unintelligible, but it wasn’t even nice-sounding, like listening to French or Italian. I think the rhythms & sounds of it – the way the voice rises and falls, etc. – are too different from Anglo-Saxon based languages to be attractive to those speakers, just like German or English sounds harsh to Romance language speakers.

  • roxyfoxy

    I think arabic is quite beautiful when read from the Quran. It is very poetic and when read properly sounds wonderful. I don’t understand Arabic, but I have heard it read and the calls to prayer are also wonderful to hear.

  • roxyfoxy

    This is a good article that sums it all up.

  • Nancy

    Maybe I got a ‘bad’ recording, altho it was hyped on the cover as by a ‘foremost’ islamic scholar, etc. famous for his readings. Oh well; individual taste, then, I suppose. I do know that the reason the Qu’ran is supposed to be so beautiful is for the purity of its classic Arabic – which of course is rendered null if the hearer doesn’t understand a word, let alone enough to appreciate the technicalities. My deficiency is my loss.

  • roxyfoxy

    I don’t think you have to understand to think of it as beautiful. I’ve listened to my mother in law and other friends read it and its lovely. It depends on your individual taste, if you think its ugly, then you do. No offense.

    You seem to be open minded, if you want to read some good things about Islam, visit this site fethullahgulen.com It has some really good information and answers questions regarding contoversial issues and suras from the Quran.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Dear Nancy,

    I think you are absolutely correct in your comments of post#129.

    I think we humans are so far from where we should be in general. The current state of mankind is really sad….. muslim, christian, jew or whatever. I really believe that God desires SO much more for us but we are too slow in our developement. It’s sad to see people behaving like what we see….. There’s too much war and madness in the world and contrary to what some people beleive……..it’s not all from arabs and muslims! Hopefully, one day, man will wake up and become what the prophets and messengers hoped we would be……… brothers. I know that if Moses, Jesus and Muhammad returned to earth today, they would embrace and respect each other because they all love the God that sent them. There’s nothing wrong with the messengers or the message……….it’s the people that are SICK!

  • Nancy

    What puzzles me is the continual insistence by persons of ALL religions, be it Christian, Muslim, or others, that God/Allah/Whomever can’t take care of Himself. Anyone big enough to have created me & the rest of the world & the universe certainly doesn’t need ME to defend His honor, or any other mere human for that matter! If we offend Him we’re certainly going to find out about it when He gets His hands on us, if not at any point sooner should He feel a need to have a few words with any of us in private up close & personal; therefore, while we humans need to defend ourselves & those weaker than we (which in fact the Qu’ran commands, & the Bible implies) I think God is capable of defending Himself. It then follows that while insulting God gratuitously is not only rude to those of religious bent, but also possibly fraught with grave consequences hereafter, it is also equally insulting of God’s followers to feel that He needs to be avenged for something as petty as this.

    I’ve done a lot of reading, as I’ve said, in various things; another idiotic point everyone comes up with is Ayesha. A modicum of reading would show that she was highly unlikely to have been younger than her early teens when she married Mohammad, and her own reminiscences seem to indicate she didn’t regard her marriage as a hardship. Plus, from what I’ve read about the prophet, a man who marries an Older Woman and is faithful to her for years, has enough consideration for an animal (his cat) not to disturb it unnecessarily, condemns the killing of baby girls, & keeps his followers from slaughtering the people of Mecca, is hardly going to be the sort of guy to force himself on a little girl. It’s possible, but not probable, and pretty unlikely IMO. but that’s just my opinion.

    In reading the Qu’ran (an English translation, not the actual Qu’ran, of course) and the Hadith, I also wonder how much of them has been … ‘modified’? … for propaganda purposes, like the Christian New Testament, which underwent consderable re-writing to support the viewpoints of a specific group in power during the 2nd – 4th centuries. A few of the things the prophet is said to have said & did seem at odds with some of the earlier suras, just as quite a few things Christ is said to have said & done are at odds with a good deal of his behavior & sayings in other parts of the N.T. Comments on this from our muslim friends? Is this a possibility?

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Nancy, That was well said!

    It is sooo good to see someone here actually does research into things rather than just talk to be talking and repeating what they heard from other!

    You are actually better at making my points than I am………..lol. Thank you so much.
    You are so correct about the moral fiber of Muhammad(pbuh). He indeed was a righteous man of high character. Unforntunely too many muslims fall far short of his example.

  • roxyfoxy

    Well said Nancy and Muhammad, I’m glad to hear some positive comments that make sense on this forum. Too much is being said without researching first. Its easy to repeat what you hear, but unless you researched it for yourselves and gathered your own opinions those comments have no merit.

  • Eric Olsen

    very admirable discussion here lately, thanks

  • beast

    Tolerance…. Did you see this journalist woman today, dressed in a burka, naturally. Fully woke up this time, hardened… not much time she says… before they chop chop her yap.

    Now that’s tolerance.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    No, that’s extreamism. It’s WRONG! I pray that she will be released unharmed!

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    Sources close to the kidnappers informed Al Rai TV that the kidnappers have set a Feb. 26 deadline for their demands to be met or they will execute her “according to Sharia,” he said, referring to Islamic law.

    I expect we will be treated to a female sequel to the Berg video. And someday soon we will begin to see this “Islamic Sharia” become the law of the land in one European country after another, and ultimately in America as well. Those who paved the way, inviting it in by refusing to see the nature of Civilization’s enemy, will deserve what they will be getting.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    WoW Islamic Sharia will become the law of the land in Europe and America………???

    You mean to tell me that the arab/extreamist will be able to accomplish something of this magnitude that no other group that wanted to overthrow the government were able to pull off??? You really need to stop trying to frighten the people reading these post.

    Sharia will never be the law of any land except arab/muslim lands that want it to be.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    Sharia will never be the law of any land except arab/muslim lands that want it to be.

    Wrong. Considering the current rate at which the native European populations are actually shrinking, combined with the continuing uncontrolled and massive influx of muslims with a much higher birth rate, Eurabia is not that far off. All they need to do is reach the 51% mark, and then they will be able to use democracy to vote democracy out, and vote Sharia law in.

    You will probably live long enough to see it happen, well before this Century is out. America may survive, if it is lucky, somewhat longer, maybe even a little ways into the next century. So you personally don’t have anything to worry about, especially if you don’t expect to have any progeny to whom you would want to pass on a different legacy.

  • hahaha

    your “prohetic vision” of the future is really amazing!

    how could a democracy allow a non-democratic system of law be voted into existance???

    if that happens…..then maybe it should…..hahaha.

  • Bliffle

    All this outrage over the cartoons is bogus: the cartoons were published in October in an Egyptian newspaper, WITHOUT REACTION FROM THE MUSLIMS! What a bunch of frauds the muslims are.

  • Mr. Generalizer

    “WHAT A BUNCH OF RACIST THE WHITES ARE”

  • firdooze

    “WHAT A BUNCH OF RACIST THE WHITES ARE”

    come’on man. Not all whites are racist like not all Muslism are terrorist. These kinda generalization that people like you make, have caused many undesirable repercussions. Think before you say something.

    “Considering the current rate at which the native European populations are actually shrinking, combined with the continuing uncontrolled and massive influx of muslims with a much higher birth rate, Eurabia is not that far off. ”

    Don’t worry man. Muslims don’t impose their religion to the non-believers.(which is against the teaching of the Qur’an) Though I personally think your view is kinda too extreme, at most if the Sharia Law were to be implemented in Europe, it’ll only be for the Muslims. For example, countires like Singapore and Malaysia have been practicing the Sharia Laws but it only applies to Muslims.

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    firdooze gives us this little shot of Taquiya: Muslims don’t impose their religion to the non-believers.

    Bullshit. How to you think Zoroastrian Persia got to be virtually 100% Muslim?

    Omar, the second successor to Mohammed, initiated an explosive expansion of Islam. He seized Syria, then Jerusalem and finally Damascus in 638 after having defeated Heraclius. In 635, other Arab troops launched an assault on the Sassanian Empire, and crossed the Euphrates. The downfall of the empire was well underway when the Arab horsemen dealt the deathblow to the Sassanid dynasty and overran Persia first entering Ctesiphon in 637. Successive victories were to follow. They emerged victorious from the engagement at Nahavand in 642, which left the way open for them to enter the Iranian plateau. The conquest of Persia continued with the fall of Afghanistan (651) and then Transoxiana (674).

    The Iranian state was at first divided into a number of provinces ruled by governors appointed by the Caliphs of Islam. Zoroastrianism, except among a defiant few, gave way to Islam. So a whole culture and it’s peaceful, benevolent religion was wiped of the face of the earth. And this is just one of dozens of examples.

    In modern times, listen to the views of “moderate” Muslims in the most influential Islamic lobbying organization in America, CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations):

    Ihsan Bagby, a “moderate” CAIR board member, stated that Muslims “can never be full citizens of this country,” referring to the United States, “because there is no way we can be fully committed to the institutions and ideologies of this country.”

    Ibrahim Hooper, a “moderate” CAIR spokesman, told the Minneapolis Star Tribune: “I wouldn’t want to create the impression that I wouldn’t like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future.”

    Omar Ahmad, CAIR’s chairman who would deny that he is an “extremist”, announced that “Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth.”

    Highest authority means highest authority. Above the Constitution. If they feel emboldened to reveal this much of their true intentions when they are at only one or two percent of the population, then it is clear that if they ever got to significantly higher numbers, Christianity in America will suffer the same fate as Zorastrianism did in Persia.

  • beast

    It’s time to wipe this mental sewage off the face of the planet.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    I’m glad you know something about Islamic history, but how many african and asian and native american lands have been overtaken by christians who imposed christianity on those people??? Even now, christians are going around the world imposing their beliefs on native people trying to make them give up their ancient customs and faiths!

    You know that i’m telling the truth.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Oh by the way, how did this native Indian land become Christianized? Where are all those natives anyway?

    You hypocrites take the f******* cake !!!

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “Muslims don’t impose their religion to the non-believers.” LET ME CORRECT THIS.

    the correct statement should have read……Muslims are not supposed to impose their religion on others according to Quran, but some have and does.

    Just like Christian priest aren’t supposed to be raping and sodomizing little boys………lol.

    DON’T YOU GUYS JUST LOVE HOW I CALL YOU TO ACCOUNT LIKE YOU CALL ALL MUSLIMS? hahaha

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “It’s time to wipe this mental sewage off the face of the planet.”

    Hey beast, where did you get that line from….. your brother Hitler ???

  • Bliffle

    This whole controversy is a FRAUD! The cartoons were published Oct. 17 in Egypt and passed without adverse muslim reaction. This is a manufactured controversy, invented for their own vile purposes by lying crybabies.
    Look here:

  • roxyfoxy

    The controversy was uproared by islamist extremists countries, Iran and Syria. They published reports and met with large groups of Islamists to fill them in. This fueled the fire. Just like in america all of the media reports about Muslim terrorists. You think this didn’t cause an uproar and hatred from the American people?

  • Eric Olsen

    last I heard the murder of 3000 civilians from virtually every nation on earth by means of commercial aircraft constitutes “news”

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    last I heard the murder of 3000 civilians from virtually every nation on earth by means of commercial aircraft constitutes “news”

    No, Eric. You’re not listening. According to roxyfoxy reports like this about Islamic terrorism should not be published because they could cause “an uproar and hatred from the American poeple.”

    So NOTHTING bad about Islam should ever be reported or discussed – not about their history, nor their current activities, nor, God forbid, their doctrine. If you participate in spreading this kind of inciteful information, in the name of that despicable Western concept known as Freedom of Speech, then you are guilty of the crime of XENOPHOBIA, and should be hauled before an international U.N. tribunal and put on trial for promoting genocide. Shame on you!

  • roxyfoxy

    Turn on CNN, what do you see? Its always something about violence in Iraq, Iran, hostages kidnapped……Have you seen what our troops have to do in Iraq? Well, since my friend just got back from doing it, let me tell you. The marines are kicking down doors in neighborhoods looking for weapons of mass destruction, harassing the families who are trying to live their normal lives, patroling their streets. Last I heard Iraq was not America, its not our job to fix or destroy(depending how you look at it) their country. Oh, wait, they have shit loads of oil, so yeah, America can attack if they want. Lest we not forget, Osama was behind 9/11, not Saddam, and what are we doing in afghanistan? Oh, that’s right, nothing because all of our troops are in Iraq. Osama who? We don’t care about him anymore, we want that oil.

    If you ask me, I say the terrorists are running our government. Who’s taking care of the families who lost loved ones from 9/11? Nobody. Who’s taking care of the victims from Katrina? Who? Who? Nobody. Who’s taking care of the poor, the elderly, the disabled? NOBODY!

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    Let’s not call all Muslims frauds. There is a reason that things explode into social action and these circumstances are not always predicatable. Further not all Muslims were involved.

    There were plenty of instances of racial injustice, in the 1950s-now. Not all of these caused movements, riots or protests.

    I believe that Harold Pinter has a different take. For many years he hasn’t really written plays as much as protest against American imperialistic terrorism.

    However, I found that to emerge from a personal nightmare was to enter an infinitely more pervasive public nightmare – the nightmare of American hysteria, ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and belligerence; the most powerful nation the world has ever known effectively waging war against the rest of the world.

    “If you are not with us, you are against us,” President George W. Bush has said. He has also said: “We will not allow the world’s worst weapons to remain in the hands of the world’s worst leaders.” Quite right. Look in the mirror, chum. That’s you.

    America is at this moment developing advanced systems of “weapons of mass destruction” and is prepared to use them where it sees fit. It has more of them than the rest of the world put together. It has walked away from international agreements on biological and chemical weapons, refusing to allow inspection of its own factories. The hypocrisy behind its public declarations and its own actions is almost a joke.

    America believes that the 3,000 deaths in New York are the only deaths that count, the only deaths that matter. They are American deaths. Other deaths are unreal, abstract, of no consequence.

    The 3,000 deaths in Afghanistan are never referred to. The hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children dead through American and British sanctions which have deprived them of essential medicines are never referred to.

    The effect of depleted uranium, used by America in the Gulf war, is never referred to. Radiation levels in Iraq are appallingly high. Babies are born with no brain, no eyes, no genitals. Where they do have ears, mouths or rectums, all that issues from these orifices is blood.

    The 200,000 deaths in East Timor in 1975 brought about by the Indonesian government but inspired and supported by America are never referred to. The 500,000 deaths in Guatemala, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Uruguay, Argentina and Haiti, in actions supported and subsidised by America, are never referred to.

    The millions of deaths in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia are no longer referred to. The desperate plight of the Palestinian people, the central factor in world unrest, is hardly referred to.

    But what a misjudgment of the present and what a misreading of history this is. People do not forget. They do not forget the death of their fellows, they do not forget torture and mutilation, they do not forget injustice, they do not forget oppression, they do not forget the terrorism of mighty powers. They not only don’t forget: they also strike back.

    Christians can be terrorists. Think of the IRA and the UK in Ireland. Muslims extremist groups are not the only active terrorists in the world today.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    DAMN roxyfoxy is on the money with #162.

    Truth + Truth = TRUTH.

    “CRIMINAL ARE RUNNING THE US GOV’T”

  • a wise man

    Purple Tigress I wish that everyone that visits this web site had the opertunity to read the comments you made. You hit the nail on the head.

    TrUtH + TrUth = TRUTH. Glad to see someone expose the madness of the hypocrites that post anti-muslim garbage on this site.

    Weapons of mass destruction……..hahaha. That idiot in the “WHITE house” is the worlds worst weapon of mass destruction!

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Hey Bliffle,

    Speaking of FRAUDS…..

    The missing WMD’s in Iraq!!!
    The thing that kinda shocked me was, I was waiting for Bush’s boy Rumsfield to have some WMD’s planted in Iraq to justify the invasion. I just knew that after they didn’t find any (and they already knew there were none), they would plant their own “smoking gun”. But I guess they didn’t have to once they got the masses of dumb american people to go along with the LIE! All that mattered was them getting that oil. LIE, KILL & STEAL….. that’s the American way!

    P.S. i’m a decendant of slaves born in America. I’m not an Arab…..so don’t blame arabs for my statement………..lol

  • roxyfoxy

    LOL Muhammad, I am born and raised American. Land of the Greed, Home of the Slaves.

  • sam

    Hey for all those who try to outsmart bible/qur-an before you say statement try to learn your religious first…its sad that you cant even afford to know your origin first and while to speak or demoralize Islam you are so articulate as if you know their religion.

  • mark

    West, society and people find it too easy to say that Muslims are to blame of what and how extremism transpired in the world…With what the world is showing and how they can blatantly generalize Muslims, I think those were the most critical extremist…Watch out USA, Powerful Nations,they are trying to provoke the misunderstood religion, and in effect Muslims have to stand for what their religion dictates, and that is to defend their belief when it is demoralized and cruelly accused, not through the tools of war but with their Islamic Philosophy.

  • Eric Olsen

    Pinter is a much better playwright than political philosopher

  • beast

    Rahim mohamad: “I’m glad you know something about Islamic history, but how many african and asian and native american lands have been overtaken by christians who imposed christianity on those people??? Even now, christians are going around the world imposing their beliefs on native people trying to make them give up their ancient customs and faiths!”

    Another rabid antichristian islamaniac…. with all the phoney arguments. There’s a big difference between christianity and islamic dementia, islam is false and christ is hte truth. Mohamed’s was nothing but a shyster who plagiarased the bible to pawn himself off as a prophet, he never was a prophet, just a clever manipulator who infected the arab world with his hallucinations, flying horses and other biblical twisted lies.

    Mo: “You know that i’m telling the truth.”

    I know that you’re lying.

  • beast

    It’s not about east west, black or white, it’s about right and wrong. And yes the clash will be ugly and brutal and in the end, right will stand, and wrong will be destroyed, one and all, in short order.

    Pick your side carefully, there will not be any opportunity to change side one the clean up begins.

    Re

  • roxyfoxy

    Is that all you have to say in regards to Muhammad’s statements? Appears to me cat’s got your tongue.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    hey BEAST……..you sound just like those fools that saw Jesus performing miracles and tried to claim he was a false prophet that was doing the work of satan!

    Who cares what you think………the messengers of God don’t need your approval of them to validate who they are. God is their validation.

    SHAME ON YOU

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “Land of the Greed, Home of the Slaves.”……hahaha………lol

    roxy you are soooo foxy!

    also……Land of the Oil addicts………lol.

    I heard a well know American Muslim minister say that America was addicted to oil. He said that at a lecture a few months before the invasion of Iraq. It’s funny to now hear GW-Bush echoing those same words……….hahaha.

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    Harold Pinter wrote plays about the darkness of the human heart. I’m guessing that most of the people commenting here are actually not familiar with his plays.

    He is a British man who has taken up the cause of Latin America. He is not the only one who sees things this way and his words give a more logical path toward understanding why some Latin Americans cheered when 9/11 occurred.

    I am not British. I am not Christian. I am not Muslim.

  • roxyfoxy

    “West, society and people find it too easy to say that Muslims are to blame of what and how extremism transpired in the world”

    I wouldn’t say west society, I’m now in Canada and there isn’t much discrimmination against Islam here. I mean, of course it exists, but Canadians are as critical as Americans.

    Besides that, the media shows both sides of the fence, I think that’s why I now feel the way I do. My views weren’t the same when I lived back home 3 yrs ago.

  • roxyfoxy

    I meant to say Canadians are NOT as critical as Americans.

  • Nancy

    As I mentioned on another thread, one positive thing to come out of all this cartoon mess is that I see a lot more muslims (and others) blogging & responding (even if they’re fighting); it’s good to have more than one muslim to talk/question/comment; I’m hoping we’ll get more, especially from those areas most in question.

    Muslims are angry, it’s being said, and this cartoon thing is just an “excuse”.

    A lot of the time, people are angry, rightfully so, but those who have angered them really have no clue what they’re angry about. In this case, muslims feel abused by western civ people. Possibly westerners have abused muslims; possibly not, but in any event, it’s hard to know what someone is angry about if they don’t talk to you. I don’t know about the rest of the world, but I don’t have ESP. I can’t read minds. I may very well have offended someone, but MOST of the time it wasn’t deliberate, and I don’t know about it until/unless they say so.

    I think this is the same situation we’re all in here: the muslims of the world are smarting under a host of offenses, real or perceived, and made even worse by a sort of cumulative hyper-sensitivity such situations tend to create. After awhile, if you’re mad enough, even someone saying ‘good morning’ is perceived as an insult.

    The West, on the other hand, does tend to walk all over others. I’m an American, but I’m appalled at some of the things the US gov’t does as far as infringing on the sovereignty of others, that we here in the states would without question absolutely NOT tolerate as far as interference with our lives.

    I’m not a whining, ultra-left multiculturalist, as anyone who’s been reading my comments for awhile should know, but I do know when there’s a time for dialogue…if only the other side can calm down long enough to talk rationally.

    Islam is a very confusing religion, I must admit. Or rather, the Qu’ran is confusing, because it does indeed have passages that seem to directly contradict each other as far as non-believers, etc., go; but from what I have read, most if not all qualified commentators & Islamic scholars/authorities through the centuries are united in saying that Mohammad was pretty stringent about NOT forcing religion on anyone, not pursuing quarrels or vendettas, etc.

    Just as with Jesus Christ, the problem is that his followers can not & have not lived up to his high ideal. If we’re being honest, most Christians are miserable exemplars of Christianity, especially those, like Pat Robertson, who pretend to the greatest levels of piety. I suspect the same is true in Islam of muslims & their leaders, humans all being essentially the same no matter where or who they are & how they live. Humans seem to have an endless capacity for self-deceit as well as gulling their fellows, and “religious” leaders are all very good at this sort of thing.

    Whatever, I’m glad there are more than just us Americans & westerners coming on and commenting now. Even some good can come out of bad, sometimes.

  • Imran

    Nancy i salute you…

    ( in the general jist of your text, although there are details i dont agree with but hey, what the hell, thats what we need..compromise)

    ……well put!

  • http://none Dan

    People are not rioting in the Muslim world simply because of racist cartoons,they are rioting
    because these cartoons are one more provacation designed to stir up trouble and incite hatred.
    The nazis who publish these cartoons do so to make money and to play the heroes and don’t care who they hurt.

  • beast

    Well mohamed was a pig, just a man with sins like everyone else, if not worse, because he lied about being a prophet. It offends me when people know so little about islam that they actually believe the shyster was a prophet.

    Look, mohamed is not, was not and never will be a prophet, so there is no need to treat him as a demigod. It is important for people who know the truth to stand firm on this issue.

    Enough misguided idiots who fawn and apologise for the cut-throats.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “Mohammad was pretty stringent about NOT forcing religion on anyone, not pursuing quarrels or vendettas, etc.

    Just as with Jesus Christ, the problem is that his followers can not & have not lived up to his high ideal. If we’re being honest, most Christians are miserable exemplars of Christianity”

    Nancy, I couldn’t agree more……..You are right on point!

    Let me add also…..The Prophet said “three generations after me, will no longer be OF me”
    He was refering to the very people to who he was sent….. Sorry to say this my Arab brothers, but thats you. We have a long way to go, to get back to HIM.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “Look, mohamed is not, was not and never will be a prophet”

    PROVE IT………you beast! :-)

    He never claimed to be God, the son of God or an Angel.

    But he WAS a Prophet and Messenger of Allah. May Allah bless Muhammad and the Family of Muhammad and He blessed Abraham and the family of Abraham. In the worlds, surely Thou art Praised and Magnified!……..AMEN.

  • sr

    Interesting thead. Just a test. BC. Why are you keeping me out? Please explain the error of my ways.

  • beast

    Very easy: All true prophets never contradicted each other. But Mohamed managed to contradict each and every one of the 55 who wrote the bible. Furthermore, truth is never established by one witness alone as is the case with mohamed. By the way, do you maintain that the bible was changed over the years? All muslims do, another bold face lie.

    And you maintain that God has no son, and that Jesus is not God, another contradiction of mohamette. etc etc etc…. who saw mohamette fly his horse? Or was it a camel?

    Anyone can hide in a cave, rattle the pots and come out saying he spoke to God. That doesn’t make them prophets, just a little funny in the head. How many miracles did he do? Besides flying his horse of course, which no one witnessed by the way.

    He just rehashed ala mohamette all the bible stories. And hocked it on the people, just a shyster that you criminals, thieves, and murderers like to make a hero of because his laws are just a license to steal murder and blaspheme.

    This mental sewage will be eradicated from the planet totally and permanently. Just keep bombing us and it won’t take much longer before it’s unanimous… and then you can kiss your lying arse goodbye.

  • beast

    Very easy: All true prophets never contradicted each other. But Mohamed managed to contradict each and every one of the 55 who wrote the bible. Furthermore, truth is never established by one witness alone as is the case with mohamed. By the way, do you maintain that the bible was changed over the years? All muslims do, another bold face lie.

    And you maintain that God has no son, and that Jesus is not God, another contradiction of mohamette. etc etc etc…. who saw mohamette fly his horse? Or was it a camel?

    Anyone can hide in a cave, rattle the pots and come out saying he spoke to God. That doesn’t make them prophets, just a little funny in the head. How many miracles did he do? Besides flying his horse of course, which no one witnessed by the way.

    He just rehashed ala mohamette all the bible stories. And hocked it on the people, just a shyster that you criminals, thieves, and murderers like to make a hero of because his laws are just a license to steal murder and blaspheme.

    This mental sewage will be eradicated from the planet totally and permanently. Just keep bombing us and it won’t take much longer before it’s unanimous… and then you can kiss your lying arse goodbye.

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    If you write that Mohammed contradicted himself, you should probably give examples.

    However, the rest of your message indicates you are making an emotional and biased opinion about something you probably know little about.

    Islam has brought the world many wonderful things and they survived Christian terrorism that we know as the Crusades. Much later it was through acts of terrorism that nationals of largely Islamic nations won independence from European countries.

    When Europe was in the dark ages, Arabs brought Europe mathematics, medicine and physical science. Algebra and chemistry are from Arabic words. They brought the numbers English speakers use. They gave Europe spices and ways to preserve food.

    Their music, art and cuisine are other contributions that we seem to appreciate without showing appreciation or respect for the people behind them.

    This would seem to be part of the problem.

    About 170 million Muslims are Indonesian. 28 million are Chinese. 100 million are Indian.

    A large group of Muslim Arabs settled in Dearborn, Michigan in 1916. They worked at the Ford Motor Company. Dearborn has the largest Muslim community in the US.

    Between 1890 and 1895 three Arab Christian churches were established in New York. Turkish immigrants have been coming to the US since 1820.

    It is really when peoples from nations that include Muslims and Arabs write with such hatred and ignorance about peoples who are really part of their national history.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “All true prophets never contradicted each other.”

    isn’t that why Jesus was so hated by the Jews, because they said he contradicted the teachings of Moses? Theres even contradictions in the Bible of some of the sayings of Jesus.

    Hey Beast..(what a fitting name)…the more you write, the more ignorant and hateful you sound!!!

    Jesus was a Messenger of God to us all. But he created nothing so I can’t worship him. I can only honor and respect him and learn his teachings. But not worship!!! He himself was CREATED by GOD. He NEVER told us to worship him or his Mother. He said “worship THE FATHER”. Muhammad(pbuh) did the same. He elevated his people from their sin-sick condition and directed their focus to Allah (God).

    Oh by the way, I’m 40 years old, Black and a law abiding citizen of the USA. I grew up in Newark, NJ. NEVER had a police record, NEVER stole, murdered, raped, robbed and NEVER EVER tried or used DRUGS. If that’s not a miracle, what is…….LOL. I graduated 2nd in my high school class. And went on to get my Electrical license.

    So Muhammad(pbuh) IS my HERO and I try to follow his laws. You got that….buddy?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Muhammed Rahim,

    Below are beast’s words:

    He just rehashed ala mohamette all the bible stories. And hocked it on the people, just a shyster that you criminals, thieves, and murderers like to make a hero of because his laws are just a license to steal murder and blaspheme.

    This mental sewage will be eradicated from the planet totally and permanently. Just keep bombing us and it won’t take much longer before it’s unanimous… and then you can kiss your lying arse goodbye

    It strikes me from reading your posts that for all of your anger at Christians, whites and Israel etc., you’re basically a law biding decent person who would like to live in peace. You’re probably also a fellow with people or things to lose.

    So think on my advice and words. They are not offered in hostility. Moslems in Europe are building a furious backlash against them for various reasons that are not worth bothering with here. The point is that you are a black and a Moslem. Beast represents the outrider of the future of Europe. I do not know about America. It’s been a while since I’ve lived there.

    But it is a reasonasble expectation that soon there will be a slaughter of Moslems in Europe, just as there was a slaughter of Jews during the crusades. Europeans have not changed that much.

    Will that spill over to your country? Don’t know. But in a world where anything can happen it pays to be prepared. To the degree that I am able to I’ll be following this advice myself.

    These are my suggestions.

    1. Buy some gold one ounce or half ounce coins and store them in a very safe and secure place. In or near where you store the gold, keep a troy scale.

    2. Buy a weapon. Keep it greased and oiled and keep a good stock of ammo. Keep it securely locked against children – and I do mean securely. This is not for use against burglars or common trash. It is not to be used in anger. But if the sentiments that beast expresses do spill over into your country, you’ll find it most useful.

    3. Finally, print up the things you think are most important on your computer and store them in waterproof containers. The day may come when your computer is a useless piece of plastic.

  • Nancy

    Ruvy, frequently words spoken (or written) in anger and frustration are merely an outlet and would never be carried out; I’m guilty of this myself when I spout off about wanting to string up politicians. I hope to God none of us are nuts enough to want to come to the point of needing those precautions you outline! Unfortunately, our leaders around the world don’t seem to be so restrained – probably because they know that, being powerful & privileged, they will always be protected & not the ones to pay the price for such stupidity, aggressiveness, & belligerence. Dubya Bush & Cheney are classic cases in point: easy for THEM to say “bring ‘em on!” when they know there is NO way they themselves will ever have to fight. Frankly, I consider that kind of mouthiness to be the worst kind of cowardice.

    Islam has gotten an unfair slam over the centuries since the beginning; the same with Mohammad. The more I read about him, the more admirable he seems to me, altho I will never regard him with the reverence Muslims do. The kind of spouting by beast is a display of ignorance of the history & deeds of the man; I doubt beast has ever bothered to pick up a good bio of Mohammad & check it out. And as I said, there is a HUGE disconnect between the way Muslims AND Christians are SUPPOSED to act – the examples set for them by Mohammad & Jesus – & the way they DO act. Mahatma Gandhi once said that Christianity/Islam would be wonderful religions if anybody would just start practising them. Amen to that.

    I don’t want anybody to start slaughtering anybody. When you get to know the Other Fella, he turns out to have the same fears & hopes you do, and 99% of them are pretty nice people. I wish all the hotheads & ignoramuses of the world would just simmer down & shut up. I wish we could put all our big-mouthed, posturing, macho-shithead world leaders together in one room & let them actually fight with each other. That would be a trip, wouldn’t it: Kim Jong Il, Ahmadinejad, Bush, Blair, & whomever else all locked up together (or on an island a la “Survivor”) to duke it out? I wish I knew an answer to all this. All I can think is, maybe God/Allah, having promised never to drown us again with a flood, never said anything about not destroying us via letting us destroy ourselves. We’re a pretty miserable species, I suppose. I hope that’s not the case, though.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    “…maybe God/Allah, having promised never to drown us again with a flood, never said anything about not destroying us via letting us destroy ourselves.

    Nancy, the term you are looking for is “the fire next time.” Go look at my post on the Iranian nuclear threat of 10 February and you’ll see one of the sources of the fire.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Ruvy#190
    “It strikes me from reading your posts that for all of your anger at Christians, whites and Israel etc., you’re basically a law biding decent person who would like to live in peace. You’re probably also a fellow with people or things to lose.”

    I beg your pardon. I have no anger towards Christians, whites or Isreal. The comments that I make are only to show some of the “WISE” people that post comments about the violence and barberism of muslims, that they should also look at the violence and barberism of christians, jews and racist whites (KKK who calls themselves true christians, Skinheads, Nazi’s, Jews that slaughter palestinian children in response to mad suicide bombers, etc.) All of it is crazy and evil. I do not support the violence of muslims or anybody else, but some people that post here act as if muslims are the most and only violent people!!! Like I said before, the ATOM bomb that Vaporized Japanese men, women and children was dropped by a president of the USA that called himself a christian and went to church. The kidnappers and murderers that raped, robbed and destroyed my ancestors here in America, called themselves christians and used the Bible justify their brutality of blacks.

    And as for your advice about getting myself a gun. I do not own or feel the need to carry weapons. God is my protector. If someone attacks me with a gun, they can kill me only IF Allah allows them to……BUT…….they better hope that I don’t get the weapon from them, because if I do, I WILL use it!!!

    Thank You.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “there is a HUGE disconnect between the way Muslims AND Christians are SUPPOSED to act – the examples set for them by Mohammad & Jesus – & the way they DO act.”

    Nancy, once again…….you are right on point!
    I would like to see you run for President. You’d definately get my vote. :-)

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Muhammad Rahim,

    First of all, I apologize for misspelling your name.

    Second, you’re welcome to the advice. I suspected you might answer as you did about getting a weapon, but were I in your shoes, I would trust in G-d first and foremost – but do what I could to protect my life myself murderers. Nevertheless, no arguments here. I hear you.

    Finally, I’m going to ask you to hear me.

    I’ll not argue with any of your views on slavery, Christians who are hypocritical in the practice of their faith. Even though I disagree with you about using the atom bomb, it is done and over with. One hundred thousand civilians were killed to save the lives of one million soldiers. That is very hard math for any man to live with.

    But you do not know what goes on here. You haven’t got a clue. Muhammad Dura, the child who was allegedly killed by the IDF in 2000, was shot at by Arabs. Very careful triangulation was done in checking the facts of the case because the IDF was badly stung by the false publicity and lies of France TV2. Had it been determined that an Israeli bullet had hit the child, heads would have rolled here.

    We do not know for a fact that the child was even killed. The Arabs refused to produce a body. The angles of the bullets indicated that there was no way that this was done by Israelis on the scene.

    A great deal of what occurs here is staged for the anti-Israel foreign media. Sometimes, for reasons of their own, the Israeli government plays along. The case of Shimshon Cytryn is one example.

    Tomorrow, G-d willing, I will be investigating charges of rape and other forms of sexual abuse allegedly committed by police here in the forcible evacuation of Jews from their homes in Amona.

  • hounddog

    #124
    roxyfoxy
    “Islam is a peaceful religion that does not promote violence.”
    WHY am I not convinced?

    #126
    Muhammad Rahim
    Wasn’t there something about spreading Islam with fire and sword, you certainly did and do

    #128
    Eric Olsen
    agreed Eric, but the rest are sure a pain in the ass

    #131
    Purple Tigress
    solution, let them all go back to an arab or muslim country, and stay the hell away from SCANDINAVIA

    #145
    Richard Brodie
    hurray I’ll be dead by then

    #166
    Muhammad Rahim
    the arabs and other muslims abducted and killed many of your ancestors from africa and sold them to other slavers, be happy your ancestors landed in america, it could have been much worse

    #138
    Muhammad Rahim
    I think god, allah, nature or whatever you want to call it, just wants to be let alone, it, whatever, certainly leaves us alone, maybe it just wants us to use our brain, or we are just a freak of the universe, which is much more plausible, than all religious or political interpretations

    #139
    Nancy
    good Nancy almost my point, god/allah doesn’t give a dammn

    #140
    Muhammad Rahim
    how can you say that about your prophet, I wouldn’t dare imply that I know what my prophet said, I wasn’t there, and you as an intelligent man (you could be a woman too), should know how much things change over aperiod of at least 1400 years with each mouth that apes a statement

    #148
    hahaha
    you are an ” “, Brodie is right, if we don’t take immediate action, like not having any children at all anymore this will become an islamic world for allah to rain fire upon, oh sorry, the inhabitants of this world will do that themselves, still the possibility of a black hole for all of us before that

    #149
    Bliffle
    ok I’ll believe you because I choose to, now convince the moslems, and we’ll have a bit more peace in the world, but even then there’ll always be someone to kick paradise further away from the so called humans

    #156
    Muhammad Rahim
    [Deleted]

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Ruvy;

    I hear you. Both sides have gone to extreames to maim and kill one another and I hope it stops in my lifetime. The suicide bombings and extreame use of force by the Gov’t is all maddness. There can be peace but only if the extreamist are out of power on both sides. I wish I knew how to make that happen.

    In reference to the attack on Japan. I wonder how many of us would be willing to have a Nuclear Bomb dropped on our land and sacrifice our lives to save millions of soldiers??? Sorry but I don’t consider attcking and killing innocent people an act of war…….I call it an act of MURDER. Be it Japan, Isreal or the Attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11!!!

    Thanks

  • Nancy

    Muhammad, I hope to God/Allah I never become President or anything else in power: I don’t have the smarts or the temperament to cope with it or handle it wisely, and I know it. No…you don’t want me as Pres. Thanks anyway. ;)

  • Muhammad Rahim

    “Muhammad Rahim
    I’m tiered of you and your rantings, have nightmares”

    Well Hounddog, all I can say is……In the name of free speech………

    I DON’T GIVE A DAMN!

  • hounddog

    #199
    Muhammad Rahim
    that makes two of us, all this ” ” I hope it blows over soon, as it is getting tiering to read useless comments by stupid people without power to do anything, but shoot of their mouths (that includes myself), happy nightmares to the world, when the nukes fly

  • http://murasaki.blog-city.com Purple Tigress

    Why should all the Muslim and Arabs leave Scandinavia? By the same logic, should all the blacks leave America? Should all the European and Christians leave America?

    By the same logic, why don’t all the Americans and European countries and their citizens and their ethnic groups as well as the Christians and Jews leave Muslim and Arab countries?

    After all, it was the Christians who invaded and terrorized during the Crusades. European powers invaded and colonized (exploited and enslaved) most of Africa and parts of Asia.

    Your answer, HoundDog, is a bigoted simpleton’s answer.

  • beast

    PT: If you write that Mohammed contradicted himself, you should probably give examples.”

    You’re lying again, I didn’t way moham contradicted himself, I said he contradicted all the prophets that came before him.

    PT: “However, the rest of your message indicates you are making an emotional and biased opinion about something you probably know little about.”

    Another false assumption, I read the coron for morons more than once, and more than enough to have an informed opinion about it. It is plagiarism. I suggest you verify this by yourself using a plagiarism program available at your local university.

    PT: “Islam has brought the world many wonderful things and they survived Christian terrorism that we know as the Crusades. Much later it was through acts of terrorism that nationals of largely Islamic nations won independence from European countries.”

    Another lie, the crusades were mostly for stopping the invasion of Spain and southern France, by the hordes of muslims.

    PT: “When Europe was in the dark ages, Arabs brought Europe mathematics, medicine and physical science. Algebra and chemistry are from Arabic words. They brought the numbers English speakers use. They gave Europe spices and ways to preserve food.

    Again this illeterate misinformed dolt is spewing out lies faster than a machine gun. No dear, it was Europe who brought the arabs mathematics, and electricity and it was an European who brought spices to Europe from India. You should really go back to school and get your high school diploma girl.

    PT: “A large group of Muslim Arabs settled in Dearborn, Michigan in 1916. They worked at the Ford Motor Company. Dearborn has the largest Muslim community in the US.”

    What’s the crime rate in dearborn?

    PT: “It is really when peoples from nations that include Muslims and Arabs write with such hatred and ignorance about peoples who are really part of their national history.”

    Lying again, like the good leftie you are. No dear I don’t hate arabs, I hate islam because it is false, you just don’t want to get it, you’re leftie brain is too small to get this, but that’s OK. I don’t expect lefties to understand anything they never do.

    “All true prophets never contradicted each other.”

    MR: “isn’t that why Jesus was so hated by the Jews, because they said he contradicted the teachings of Moses? Theres even contradictions in the Bible of some of the sayings of Jesus.”

    No, that’s not why, it’s because he knew they were lying murderers and if he gained power they would get killed, so they killed him. He could see through their hypocrisy and lies and thefts and that’s why they hated him. And they killed him because they were murderers. He never contradicted the teaching of Moses. You should read the bible instead of mohamed’s sewage. You wouldn’t be lying every second word.

    MR: “Hey Beast..(what a fitting name)…the more you write, the more ignorant and hateful you sound!!!”

    I hate liars and lying scum yes. I also hate murderers rapists and thieves but murderers is what I hate most, and blasphemers also, hard to say which one I would like to kill first, the blasphemer or the murderer….

    MR: “Jesus was a Messenger of God to us all. But he created nothing so I can’t worship him. I can only honor and respect him and learn his teachings. But not worship!!! He himself was CREATED by GOD. He NEVER told us to worship him or his Mother. He said “worship THE FATHER”. Muhammad(pbuh) did the same. He elevated his people from their sin-sick condition and directed their focus to Allah (God).”

    More of mohamed’s mental excrement. Keep rolling yourself in it and soon you’ll be like the rest of the bomb strapped the bug eyed lunatics. Mo the homo says Jesus was a liar, but it is mo the homo who is a liar, and you believe the lies because you are of your father the liar.

    MR: “Oh by the way, I’m 40 years old, Black and a law abiding citizen of the USA. I grew up in Newark, NJ. NEVER had a police record, NEVER stole, murdered, raped, robbed and NEVER EVER tried or used DRUGS. If that’s not a miracle, what is…….LOL. I graduated 2nd in my high school class. And went on to get my Electrical license.”

    But you lie about everything you write about Jesus, what does that make you?

    MR: “So Muhammad(pbuh) IS my HERO and I try to follow his laws. You got that….buddy?”

    Your hero is a liar (PTUI).

  • Iblis

    If you write that Mohammed contradicted himself, you should probably give examples.

    I can give you a reference on this. It’s called The Koran. Read it sometime. It’s got more contradictions than I’ve ever seen before in one place at one time.

    But what do you expect for a book dictated by an illiterate mule-trader to his inbred relatives?

  • beast

    Yeah, they keep editing the coron to fix the controadictions, only to introduce new ones. As if God needed to correct himself.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    And you’re an idiot!

    “No dear, it was Europe who brought the arabs mathematics,”

    ……hahaha You mean like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0

    What a fool you are!

    “Mo the homo says Jesus was a liar, but it is mo the homo who is a liar, and you believe the lies because you are of your father the liar.”

    VERY NICE COMMENT.
    1. I’m not a homo
    2. I never said Jesus was a liar.
    3. I never lied on Jesus.

    like I said before……..The more you write, the more idiotic you sound!

  • beast

    MR: “I never lied on Jesus.”

    Yes you did, proof: MR: “Jesus was a Messenger of God to us all. But he created nothing so I can’t worship him. I can only honor and respect him and learn his teachings. But not worship!!! He himself was CREATED by GOD.”

    That is a lie about Jesus.

  • Muhammad Rahim

    Did Jesus creat the heavens and the Earth or even his own body?

    Did he not come from the womb of his mother?

    Was he a baby when he was born?

    If he himself was not the CREATOR, then I can’t worship him. God alone is the object of worship. Even Jesus said that to his followers….Worship the Father.

    You sound very ignorant calling me a liar. Go read your Bible.

  • Shuja ur Rahman

    Hi,

    We belive in the freedome of speach but it is not allowed to abuse any one else.
    We never insult any holy person in the world why should other insulted our Prophet (PBUH).

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    We believe in the freedom of speech but it is not allowed to abuse any one else. We never insult any holy person in the world why should others insult our Prophet (PBUH).

    Why? Simple. Because we don’t believe in the same kind of restrictions on freedom of speech that you do.

    Would you like us to try and butt in to your culture and impose OUR interpretation of free speech on you? Of course not. So don’t think that you have any right to impose on us YOUR notions of how free speech should be limited.

  • vvfdjvoij

    yeah, but you didn’t answer his question.

    if i haven’t called your mother a bitch, why should you call mine one? just because you have the right to do so?

    not very intelligent

  • http://www.codexalimentarious.com/ Richard Brodie

    if i haven’t called your mother a bitch, why should you call mine one? just because you have the right to do so?

    Exactly. In a free country one has the right to SAY anything one wants too, rude or otherwise – and maybe my mother is not a bitch, but yours is!

    On the other hand you don’t have the right to DO anything you want to. Even if you killed my mother, I would not have the right to kill yours.

    Speech vs. Actions. Why can’t Mulsims get such a simple freakin’ distinction through their heads?

  • Teutates

    Let’s have marvel comix pour some gasoline on the topic …
    Oh, don’t forget to have some popcorn handy!

  • Eric Olsen

    bitches aside, is this “movement” spontaneous and truly grass roots, or is it contrived and manufactured?

  • http://www.tresbleu.blogspot.com Sister Ray

    This column has a good idea: All media run the cartoons on February 28 to show support to the Danes and to free speech.

  • beast

    More lies: “Did Jesus creat the heavens and the Earth or even his own body?
    Did he not come from the womb of his mother?
    Was he a baby when he was born?
    If he himself was not the CREATOR, then I can’t worship him. God alone is the object of worship. Even Jesus said that to his followers….Worship the Father.
    You sound very ignorant calling me a liar. Go read your Bible.

    __________________

    You’re the one who should read the bible and [Deleted]

  • http://madsenblog.dk Madsen

    Quite a few lies and incorrect statements regarding Denmark, Danes and the Mohammad cartoons have been floating around the internet lately. Danmarks Radio (DR) have made a list of some of the most prevalent ones…What follows is a rough translation of DR’s article…I’ve added some additional info here and there….:

    1. Jyllandsposten printed 120 cartoons of Prophet Mohammad.

    Nope…they printed 12…two of these cartoons have been regarded as being highly insulting to muslims.

    2. Jyllandsposten is owned by the ruling party,- an extreme right-wing party.

    Nope,- Jyllandsposten is not owned by any party. No single party has the governmental power in Denmark,- we have a two-party coalision (The Conservatives and “Venstre”…a liberal party). The newspaper Jyllands-Posten is a private and independent newspaper in Denmark. It has no relations, whatsoever, with the Government of Denmark.

    3. Mohammad was depicted as a woman, as Santa Claus and as a pig.

    Nope,- a delegation of Danish muslims traveled to the Middle-East (ME) and met with different mullahs, mufties and other muslim clerics, and showed them the cartoons. Not only did they show the cartoons printed in JP, but they also included some additional drawings not printed in JP…Pictures of Mohammad as a woman/Santa Claus/a pig. Many moderate muslims have been really outraged ’bout the actions of the delegation.

    4. Danes have been burning The Quran in the streets of Copenhagen.

    Nope,- never happened!!!! I can’t say that some right-wing loonie didn’t call for The Quran to be burned, but it definitely haven’t happened…and if someone tried they would get jailed before they could yell out “Policeviolence”!

    5. Danish authorities have decided to remove certain passages from The Quran

    Nope!….Complete and utter non-sense! Members of above mentioned delegation told the ME muslim clerics, that the Danish authorities had decided to remove certain passages from The Quran and then publish it in a speciel censored Danish version.

    6. The Danish government plans to make a movie about Mohammad

    Nope,- another lie put forward by members of the delegation. Come on! A Danish government making a movie…giggle!

    7. Queen Margrethe II of Denmark has called on the country “to show our opposition
    to Islam”

    Not so!

    The Queen has been wrongly translated by an english newspaper. Newspapers in some Muslim countries have unfortunately carried that false translation, giving notion to the belief in the Arab world that the Queen has strong reservations about Muslim immigration into Denmark.

    The false interpretation used in the headline and as a general point in the article is: “We have to show our opposition to Islam”. The correct translation would be: “We have to show an alternative to the totalitarity that is also one of the sides of Islam”. The actual words which the Queen told the author of the book, Annelise Bistrup, is (in Danish): Der må vises et “modspil” mod den “totalitet, som også er en side af Islam”. The mistranslated word is “modspil” (which can never mean opposition).

    8. The Danish Prime Minister initially declined to meet with ambassadors from muslim countries to discuss the matter, because it concerned freedom of expression.

    Nope,- 11 ambassadors from muslim countries had written the Danish Prime Minister (Anders Fogh Rasmussen) and demanded him to take action against Jyllandsposten. Since we have a free press a Danish Prime Minister can do no such thing. The Danish Prime Minister declined to meet with the ambassadors to avoid an escalation of the situation….IMHO a wrong decision.

    9. Muslim children in Danish kindergardens are being indoctrinated.

    Claim put forward by imam Mahmoud Fouad al-Barazi in an Egyptian newspaper. Ehhh….not really sure what to say about this…All kids alike are, from an early age, habituated to living in the Danish society….you can call that indoctrination if you please.

    10. Jyllandsposten have yet to apologize.

    Nope,- On 30 January 2006 the newspaper unequivocally apologised for the 12 drawings having offended many Muslims.

    11. The 12 drawings have been published in a children’s book.

    Nope,- they haven’t and this has never been the intention.

    12. Muslims are not allowed to demonstrate in Denmark.

    Of course they are…Everybody has the constitutional right to hold public meetings and demonstrations….

  • dipstick

    Concerning this thread. Please raise your hand if you believe these comments changed minds. Of course thats not the purpose ya know. Please continue because this will make great toilet paper reading for my guests.

  • Eric Olsen

    thanks for the info Madsen, very helpful

  • prophet

    #217
    dipstick
    dip your stick where

  • hounddog

    #201
    Purple Tigress

    “Why should all the Muslim and Arabs leave Scandinavia? By the same logic, should all the blacks leave America? Should all the European and Christians leave America?”

    I spent much of my childhood and a large part of my working life in Scandinavia, and remember the countries, when they were pure and healthy and one didn’t steal from others, this has all changed, when foreigners (like myself)came to the north, but at least I learned the languages there (incl. finnish)and didn’t knock the system, like the moslems do, that is why I feel the north should kick them all back to the pestholes they came from.

    You weren’t supposed to: Personal attacks are not allowed.

  • dipstick

    prophet#221. You tell me.

  • Eric Olsen

    it’s all about oil

  • Bliffle

    No cartoon is worth the lives of 29 people.

  • sr

    roxyfoxy#115. I thought you signed off. Is muhammand rahim your husband? Are you Ms. roxy rahim? Do both of you live in the US and if so, why? Inquisitive minds want to know.

  • farzi

    Hi I want to tell u guys that it is only a little while ago that I had a ery little knowledge about Denark I only knew that there is a Sandinavian country named Denmmark Now I know that:
    1 Denmark is a small ountry. It also has a queen. It has a newspaper named Jylland Postan. It has a prime minister. the people donot like Islam for somme reason. The people have every right to abuse those whom they do not like in the name of “Freedom of Speech”. When those who are being abused react they are further ridiculed and called names (obviuosly in the name of “Freedom of speech”). They can go to any limits to earn cheap publicity and money. Wow what a way to become famouse. Thank God I have never been to Denmark and never in my life will try to.

  • http://matrix5016.wordpress.com matrix boy

    we are living in same world, much better to live in unity, peace and love. no more heartred, no more war!!! let us forgive and forget… live and let live…one world for christian and muslim let us understand one another to live in peacefull life. as a human being let be carefull that no one will harm in every moves we takes. let us always avoid misundestanding and miscommunication let must be aware what we say, what we write.. peace of earth lets live in one way or another…

    god peace on earth what matter religion we belongs we same human being…

    so be it…

  • Muhammad Rahim

    sr #224

    hahaha…..

    I do live in the US. This is where I was born. My ancestors were slaves. They built this country. Free labor. That’s why I live here.

  • sr

    muhammad#227. Your ancestors built this country. Why did they stop. You live in the US because it affords the outlet for your [Deleted] rantings along with Ms. Roxy Rahim. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

  • sr

    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you [Deleted]

  • sr

    muhammad, Think one of your comments was deleted.

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

  • Eric Olsen

    that is the goal Matrix Boy – the more people who think that way, the likelier it is to happen

  • sr

    Kumbyay comes to mind.

  • f farzi

    But what do you expect for a book dictated by an illiterate mule-trader to his inbred relatives”comment 203. mind that a statue of the same illiterate person is in the US Supreme Court in Washington as an example of a great law-maker. also the former us president quoted His hadith (saying) when fighting a case in court. stop seeing this world through the eyes of fox tv find ur own eyes and use ur brain.

  • Nancy

    Comment #203 is ignorant; everybody starts with their own relatives – so did Jesus. So did Abraham & Moses. As for the literacy issue, in those days few were literate; no shame to Mohammad for that. He seems to have been an “average Joe” in terms of education & culture with an above-averge heart, and certainly with a good memory, to get all that down in detail without being able to write! I certainly can’t remember squat if I don’t make notes for myself.

    And what’s with this ‘hahahaha’ business? Do you realize how assinine you make yourself sound?

  • Moeen Akhtar

    Its very sad attitude by europeon media and this shows how illiterate they people who do not know the purpose of creation of this world. This world is created only for that person Muhammad(PBUH) who is the source of model for every person to spend life according to his teachings for the success of here and afterhere.
    So my advise to all those people who printed cartoons just to study the life of Hazrat Muhammad (PBUH) and after studing the life of prophet they will know how great he is.

  • Michael Smith

    For Goodness sake, will all the satirists of the world please refrain from lampooning islam and stick to what is safe practice such as sneering at Christianity and be politically correct like most Hollwood movies.

  • Aku

    I have always felt that in 99% of the time speech should be countered with more speech, not shut down. This should have been a chance to educate people about Islam, instead of an event showing the intolerance of great segments of the Muslim population.

  • Joe Smith

    Outsourcing, It would appear that our First and Fifth amendements have been outsourced to the local police department.

  • http://www.friendlymisanthropist.blogspot.com alessandro Nicolo

    People, people. Friends, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Mom, Stonecutters,

    One year later I still have a question: Like where did those rioting Muslims get all those Danish flags? I can’t even find a Canadian one when I need it. I love Denmark, those bastards. Of all the countries to be caught in such an uproar.

    We tend to not riot about these things in the West because a) we are secular b) we work c) we consume and d) well, we’ve civilized (or at least tamed) our savages. Sorta. If my friend came to me and said, “Hey Alex we’re heading downtown to burn, kill and maim because Sinead O’Connor ripped a picture of the Pope!” I’d tell him to get a life and take care of his family. Loser. Then I’d punch him in the head.

    Most comments like Gazelle et al remind me of an adage: “I killed your family because of American imperialism.” Everything is reduced to some sort of moral equivalency. Murderous actions have a rational root – in this case insensitive cartoons. I’m not suggesting we should not be a little more senstive and maybe they were in poor taste but to elicit such a response? It makes little sense.

    Ok, it’s not an adage. I made it up. Anyway, I’m sooooo sick and tired of people equating the actions of malignant morons with what we say. Like we should feel guilty. Talk about putting freedom on the run. This was simply a stupid cartoon that was published at worst in poor taste. Big difference between poor judgement and being evil racists. Everyone is free to be an jerk. Then, the powers that be decided it was a lousy political issue. Lame.

    It also completely ignores the fact that regardless of what grievance they – the Hatrocks of the Middle East – pimp out they have an agenda that operates outside the general realm of international politics. They yap about American imperialism and chirp about Zionists (and I don’t mean to downplay these issues) but something tells me they’d kill Mohammed in a flash if he disgareed with them. In other words, they are clear and lucid in their plans. They are also smart, rational, lunatics (as 9/11 demonstrated*) and only Muslims (that is Arab Muslims) can quell them. Start by admitting there’s a problem and stop finger pointing. Whaddya say?

    The over whelming majority of people who practice Islam have nothing to be ashamed of. It’s too bad a few nut heads ruin it. It’s always the few who cause most of the problems. I know Muslims are normal and have a sense of humour. I watch Little Mosque on the Prairie.

    I don’t get number #36. Muslims built this country?

    Last, what do I know? I’m just a sheltered North American who lives in the suburbs who loves Strawberry Mini-Wheats. Thus making me the perfect brainwashing candidate for George Bush and Stephen Harper. “It’s a life,” as Daffy Duck pragmatically once said.

    *My apologies to those who believe in their minds and hearts that 9/11 was an inside job.

    My apologies for this entry.

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