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The Death Penalty: Controversy in the Law Office

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[EDITOR'S NOTE: This story is a fictional account intended to illustrate the author's feelings about the controversial subject of capital punishment. While the case described therein is based in fact, the names and location have been changed. The author is not an attorney.]

It was around 10am when I arrived at the Fort Bend County Courthouse. I was late because my hot coffee spilled on my new white blouse. I tried to continue my morning routine of grabbing the mail, saying hello to my co-workers, and checking my emails.

As I approached Danny, a highly intelligent defense attorney, he smiled and said his usual, “How’s it going, beautiful?”

I replied with the usual, “Same old, same old, Danny.” He was always hinting that he wanted to date me, but we both knew it would never happen.

I continued to walk to my desk when I overheard two other co-workers arguing about some intense case. “You know he won’t be charged with the death penalty, John,” I heard Adam say.

“Probably not, but at least he’ll be locked up,” John replied.

I knew the exact case they were talking about. It was the case that everyone was talking about.

On May 12, 2008, Jose Gutierrez, age 29, was arrested for the murder of his wife Claire, 23, and their son Michael, 11 months old. Jose allegedly killed both his wife and son, and then stuffed them inside plastic containers in their home. After being advised of his constitutional rights, Jose admitted that he had murdered his wife and child and then stuffed them into a plastic storage container seven days earlier. The court case has just come up, and has brought controversy to the law office.

I myself, being a strong supporter of the death penalty, find it frustrating when murderers are stuck in jail for the rest of their life. Lethal injection is complex and expensive and I catch myself reminiscing about the old days where criminals were hung within days of their trial.

“Why should a murderer have a better life in jail than some innocent family struggling to make ends meet out in the real world?” I overheard Danny argue. “Sometimes I’m amazed why the country is the way it is.”

By this time, there were three prosecuting attorneys against five defense attorneys, and I knew it was not going to end in Danny’s favor.

“Chill out, Danny,” John replied, “You can’t win them all. And besides, Jose will be locked up forever.”

Amazed, the majority of my office smiled and agreed with him. As the dispute came to an end, and all of the lawyers got back to work, I noticed how upset Danny still was.

“How’s it going, Danny?” I asked, trying to get him to think about something different.

“Terrible,” Danny replied. “How can this country be okay with murderers and rapists sitting in jail continuing to live their life when they’ve harmed so many other lives?”

I thought to myself that it’s not fair, and Danny’s right, but that wouldn’t solve anything. So I told him, “All you can do is try your best, Danny. You send some to lethal injection, and get the rest off the streets so they can’t harm anymore people.” I was hoping it would help, but all I could see was Danny cramming his pencil even deeper into his stack of case papers.

“How is a murderer getting to choose his last meal fair?” Danny asked. “The people he murdered didn’t get to choose their last meal. They didn’t even get to choose how they died!” Anger filled his face.

There wasn’t much I could say; I agreed 100% with him.

“Danny, life isn’t fair, you should know that by now,” John whispered as we walked by.

“Life isn’t fair, and since we’re lawyers, we should know that by now,” I muttered.

Danny’s hand released the beat up pencil and he put both hands to his head. “It’s just so frustrating to know that this man will be alive until his body gives out,” he muttered.

“I know, Danny,” I told him, “but that’s just how life goes, all we can do is look forward to the next day and the next criminal to put behind bars.”

After about an hour of talking with Danny, I eventually made it back to my desk full of case files. All I could think about for the rest of the day was Danny’s frustration, and the face of Jose.

I went online and found his case file, along with his mug shot. This evil man was going to get to live, and his eyes knew it.

When I was driving home, I tried to distract myself with music and even a phone call to my mother to see how she was doing.

At home, I cooked my typical Lean Cuisine meal and watched the evening news, like always. When I eventually made it to bed, I couldn’t sleep. Again, all I could picture in my head was Jose sitting in jail, wasting space and tax dollars.

After about an hour of contemplating the case back and forth in my head, I became frustrated and turned on Lonesome Dove, an old western favorite.

I always enjoy watching this show because the laws were so simple back then. No yearlong trials, and when a killer was caught, he was killed immediately after trial.

Why can’t we go back to the simple way of hanging? It’s not expensive and it’s over quick. Did it go away because the government didn’t like an execution in public? Or was it because the electric chair came and that brought the criminals pain? All I know is that the government could take a breath and look back on those times.

After watching an hour of Gus and Call serve justice and wander around the open range, I went to bed.

When I woke up in the morning, I had a revelation about how the world, in the eyes of the justice system, could be much better served. With the help from both Lonesome Dove and Danny, I came up with the idea of a happy medium that had pro-death penalty and the opposing view in mind.

Why not let the loved ones of the dearly departed have a choice in what happens to the monsters that severely disrupted their lives? Some people would choose to kill the murderers instantly. Others might have a softer side and let the killers sit in jail and hope that they someday find God or a higher matter. There would be three choices: let them rot in jail, hang them, or kill them through an execution by gunfire. All three options would be better than what is in use right now.

If they were hung, all you would need is a rope and a tall tree or hanging post. If they were killed execution style, then you would need a firing squad and a wall. Both would result in a dead murderer or rapist, and would be very low in costs. If the choice were to keep them locked up, then that would be what it is like today. It’s a happy medium that serves justice in a better way, in my opinion.

I thought about how I would approach and tell Danny about my brilliant idea when I was driving to work. I purposely screwed my coffee cup lid on extra tight so there wouldn’t be another delayed morning, and continued my genius planning. I talked it out to myself to practice, because I knew that Danny wouldn’t be the only one listening.

When I got to work, the office was silent. Had I missed something epic on the news while I was planning out my discussion? No, it was Jose Gutierrez’s trial. The television screen captivated everyone; it was the last day of the trial.

I walked up quietly to Danny, after putting my coffee mug, mail, and bag on my desk. I whispered to him, “I’ve got a brilliant idea that you are going to love.”

He replied half consciously, “Oh yeah? What’s that, beautiful?”

“I know how we can make the judicial system more fair, Danny!” I said with too much enthusiasm.

The rest of the office shushed me, and I went back to my quiet whisper. “I swear, Danny, you’re gonna love it.” Right then and there, it seemed like the world was stuck in the moment. The jury was making its final decision.

Jose pled guilty to three counts of murder pursuant to a “statement of plea agreement to ensure that the defendant is never released from prison.”

With the recommendation of the victim’s family, Judge Thomas J. Singer sentenced him to consecutive terms of life imprisonment with absolutely no possibility of parole on Counts I and II, and to a fixed term of 65 years imprisonment on Count III.

John was right. Danny and I were wrong. Better yet, the judicial system was wrong again. After part of the office cheered because they were right. Of course it was all a game to them.

Danny and I went back to my desk. Feeling defeated, we sat in silence for a couple minutes. To break the silence, Danny asked, “What were you going to tell me earlier?”

I replied, “Oh, I was just dreaming.” Like my idea would change how this crazy world is played out.

Danny pushed on about my idea, and I eventually told him, of course without the previous enthusiasm. He loved it, like I expected. But, we both knew that it would take a lot of time and hundreds of people to push this new idea forward.

After discussing the idea for a good hour, we decided to keep the pet project in the back of our minds. And when the opportunity presented itself, we would take charge and attract the right people to help us change the world, as the judicial system knew it.

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About TexasSoonerFan

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Amanda –

    The death penalty is controversial because sometimes INNOCENT people are executed. Over the past two decades, dozens of innocent men have been removed from Death Row and freed. Why? Because when they were sentenced to death, they could not PROVE their innocence. They owe their lives to DNA tests.

    Back when I was younger, I was a Republican and supported the death penalty. I now see it as an abomination, because it’s hard to free an innocent man after he’s been executed for a crime he didn’t commit. All the ‘true’ verdicts that resulted in the execution of those who richly deserved death do NOT make up for the court-ordered death of ONE innocent man.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    That’s a terrible idea

  • Glenn Contrarian

    And Amanda –

    If you think I’m making this up, Google “The Innocence Project”, and Google “Texas Perry Death Penalty” – and in the second instance, you’ll find an innocent man was executed for the deaths of his three daughters.

    One last thing – a few years back, Ted Kyzcinski (the Unabomber – remember him) wrote a letter begging to be put to death because the rest-of-his-life solitary confinement in the Supermax prison to which he had been sentenced was more than he could bear.

    Think about that.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    You scare me Amanda. Not just that I imagine you licking your chops with glee at the death of another, but the obnoxious way you glorify yourself at the expense of poor Danny. What counts as beautiful is in the heart and the mind, not in the body. After all, you actually have some control over the former. By the way, the saying is ‘same old’.

  • zingzing

    disturbing. some people need to be kept far, far away from the law.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    Glenn: we agree on this issue. I am against the death penalty! The only time I would even consider it is in the event of a “child predator”, you know the stories! But still, against!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I’m also against it, Christine. Just curious as to what you feel ought to happen in a case like this, which happened in a small town about 45 minutes from where I live.

  • John Wilson

    The reptilian mind at work, relishing the terms of vengeance.

  • pablo

    Amanda,

    Imagine if you will that YOU Amanda were convicted of murder and sentenced to death, however you were innocent of the crime. Is that possible for you to imagine Amanda? You must be aware that there have been many others who were innocent of murder that have found themselves in just that predicament. So it could happen to you.

    Now imagine yourself behind bars awaiting execution, and you know that you are innocent. Would you still hold the same views about capital punishment Amanda? We both know if you are honest with yourself the answer would be no. You would be begging and praying that the law was changed.

    Now if this is true, that your belief in capital punishment would be different if the above was true, what does it say about you now?
    It is fine that others who are innocent are murdered by the state, but if YOU Amanda were the one behind bars it would be a different story.

    What it says to me dear, is that you don’t give a crap about others in the same predicament, but only if YOU were the one waiting to be executed. That tells me a whole lot about you Amanda. Thanks for sharing your views with the world.

  • pablo

    Ohhhhhh thats right Amanda it could never happen to YOU!!

    Ummm that’s that the word INNOCENT means dear. Welcome to the real world.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Looks like the anti-death crowd here has been grilling you and your views, and I imagine they figure the barbecue is about ready – is that Pablo I see carrying the steak sauce over to put on the er meat?

    The way I figure it, if you cold-bloodedly take someone’s life, you deserve to die. This is particularly true for terrorists who kill not the enemy soldier – that’s understandable – but the women and children. But there needs to be a high enough bar of proof so that the mistakes will be very minimal. But we are human, mistakes in attempting to bring justice to fruition will be made, and it ought never be forgotten that execution of an innocent soul is not a reversible – or harmless – error.

  • pablo

    Yup Ruvy its me. :)

  • Glenn Contrarian

    I notice that Amanda isn’t replying.

    But I understand that – I remember how I felt when I began to realize that my pro-death-penalty stance was morally wrong.

    Growth in one’s life is sometimes painful, Amanda. I do know how you feel.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Don’t make assumptions, Glenn. There are several reasons she may not be answering.

    The first is that she is busy lawyering. Lawyering does take up time, and you can’t stick everything onto the paralegal, you know….

    The second is that she may not have come back to the site.

    The third is that she may have a policy of not answering comments.

    The fourth is that she may be composing an answer to you all.

    The fifth is that she may be too insulted to answer you all. Trust me on this: every argument you have raised on this issue – including yours, Pablo, she has encountered already. We had similar debates in law school, and your argument was the most common one used by opponents to the death penalty.

    Finally, and least likely: she might actually be having a change of heart. She’s a lawyer, and my buddy on the volunteer police who is married to a lawyer tells me you really have to work hard to get a lawyer (especially one you are married to) to change her mind.

  • zingzing

    ruvy, i doubt she’s a lawyer. without mentioning the lean cuisine meals, the lack of legal reasoning would suggest she’s either still in school or is a paralegal herself.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    …or she only plays one on television

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    7 – Dr Dreadful:
    Oy my gosh, that just makes me ill! There are two other cases being covered by Nancy Grace. I watch her a lot, even though I get very upset at the stories. One is about a teen that killed a 9 year old girl. This is where I lose it, especially with cases like Jessica Lunsford and Polly Klass. There are just way too many of these and we need to something about it. I as a mom of a teenager live in fear because of these monsters!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    i doubt she’s a lawyer. without mentioning the lean cuisine meals, the lack of legal reasoning would suggest she’s either still in school or is a paralegal herself.

    from page 2 of the article:

    There wasn’t much I could say; I agreed 100% with him.

    “Danny, life isn’t fair, you should know that by now,” John whispered as we walked by.

    “Life isn’t fair, and since we’re lawyers, we should know that by now,” I muttered.

    The first question that occurred to me, zing, while reading this was, “was Amanda a lawyer?” The answer – in the positive – is found in the quote above.

    This article is not about convincing you that the death penalty is good. That is why there is no legal reasoning here. This article is about the uproar that crime – especially one where the death penalty would seem appropriate – causes in a law office where work has to get done.

    I got a Regent’s Scholarship from the State of New York to go to university, zing. I got it for two reasons – I could write; and I could comprehend what I was reading.

  • zingzing

    hrm. well, i read the article last night. must have forgotten… on her own blog, it says she’s a student. so… meh. sometimes, you miss things, eh? (like you on the catholic post.)

    her “brilliant idea” is impossible, as well as ridiculous, as well as so legally repulsive and antiquated that i’d have to say i’d not want to have her on my side in a trial.

    still, one must wonder if we are reading too much into what we think we read.

    and yes, the article is more a story about outrage than it is about debating the death penalty to any real degree. hopefully.

  • Amanda

    This piece was intended as a personal opinion based on my experiences with victims. I am not a lawyer, but I have very strong feelings on the subject. I used a story medium to get my point across more dramatically.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Having also gone to the young lady’s blog, I also noticed that she was a student studying advertising, zing – and her blog was about movies. Maybe this “opinion” piece is more along the line of fiction?

    Heh! – Now, I noticed that she comes clean!

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    On the possible reasons you listed above…true, true, true, true, true, and true. It’s hard to argue with you when you make sense.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Well, folks, there goes my thinking on the matter!

  • zingzing

    ha! i knew it.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Glen, it looks like Jet read this one the best. Amanda was playing lawyer. That would explain the big weakness in this article – that lawyers should have so much time to debate the things that they had already spent three years debating in law school, and that they were willing to do it without billing clients!!

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Amanda –

    Good to see you came back.

    As Ruvy said, you’re probably insulted at the reasons I gave against the death penalty. Please don’t get me wrong – there are many who richly deserve death. If someone close to me were raped or murdered, I’m truly afraid of what I might turn into, because if I caught the one(s) who did it, I might become very…imaginative in my personal pursuit of justice and vengeance. I’ve prayed many times I never need to become that way.

    But in the larger picture, does the righteous hatred that we all feel towards those whom we’re certain are guilty justify the dozens of innocents executed for crimes that they didn’t commit?

    That’s the hard question. If you’re okay with a few innocent lives being ended by court order in order to ensure death comes to those whom you’re sure are guilty…then we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    So far, The Innocence Project has helped free 245 wrongfully-convicted men and women from prison. Some of them were on death row.

    245 innocent men and women. Something to think about, isn’t it?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Amanda, while I agree with your general approach to the death penalty (as opposed to all the other folks ranting on), there is such a thing as full disclosure in articles.

    If you are writing what amounts to fiction to illustrate a point, you ought to say so, as it increases rather than decreases your credibility.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    To make the point, Amanda. I went to law school in the States, but never finished, and never became a lawyer. So I am familiar with the terminology of law in the States, and very familiar with the arguments for and against the death penalty put forward there.

    I live in Israel, not the States, and we have the death penalty (hanging) for treason and mass murder. Adolf Eichmann, tried here in 1960-61, was hung for mass murder. I woulds like to see this death penalty extended to terrorists who kill innocents who are not combatants, like women, children, and drivers on roads.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “I used a story medium to get my point across more dramatically.”

    What the French? You think the capital punishment issue isn’t dramatic enough so you had to make stuff up? You obviously don’t know much about the issue then.

    How much is fiction? Was there even a Jose Gutierrez in 2008 or was a common Mexican name the first thing that came to mind?

    This reflects poorly on the credibility of the site, so I hope you stop and think before contributing again. I also hope the article gets deleted.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Ruvy –

    I woulds like to see this death penalty extended to terrorists who kill innocents who are not combatants, like women, children, and drivers on roads.

    Be careful of what you wish for, because this could be applied to some Israeli soldiers who went too far, or IDF officers who were not judicious enough in their application of force.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Ruvy @ #25: LOL.

    Christine @ #17: The Alex Mercado case is especially close to home for me because I work for the local housing authority and both the victim and the accused live(d) in one of our public housing complexes.

    Nobody knows quite how to react here. There’s anger, of course, but the usual bloodlust seems to be absent because the alleged killer is a kid himself.

    Under California law, a minor can’t be sentenced to death, or even to life without possibility of parole. The general expectation seems to be that, based on what he’s been charged with, he’ll spend at most 30 years behind bars.

    Yet it’s also clear that – based on what he’s been charged with – he knew exactly what he was doing, kid or no kid.

    The case is darkly reminiscent of the murder of James Bulger in Liverpool, England in 1993. That one really got to me, not only because the killers were a pair of 10-year-old kids who decided to kidnap, torture and kill a random toddler just for something to do, but also because my nephew was about the same age as James at the time.

    Again, what is one supposed to do with 10-year-old murderers who were fully aware of their actions?

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    what is one supposed to do with 10-year-old murderers who were fully aware of their actions?

    Make them president when they grow up?

  • power hour

    Hmmm…you people need to get a life.

    First of all, we’re in America…a.k.a a FREE COUNTRY. The author can do whatever she wants, and as a college student myself, I think she did an honorable thing. As far as I’m concerned, it’s her opinion. She’s completely entitled to her opinion, and no one else has any room to say that she’s wrong.

  • zingzing

    fine. her opinion (and her method of getting it across) is ridiculous and more than a little texas.

  • sara jane

    I find it very interesting that I, a conservative working woman, comes home from a hard days work to see that a bunch of liberals have been sitting on their asses all day complaining about a college girl’s article. Is this what our country is coming to? Or better yet, is this how the country is going to be under the “amazing” Obama? God I hope not.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    As far as I’m concerned, it’s her opinion. She’s completely entitled to her opinion, and no one else has any room to say that she’s wrong.

    No one can have an opinion about her opinion then? How very odd.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    What an obnoxious comment sara. Why don’t you go do a double shift or watch Fox news or something and leave us alone. There is no ‘our’ country right-wingers are more like aliens than humans. As far as I’m concerned you are an illegal alien trespassing on the earth, which rightly belongs to humans.

  • zingzing

    sara jane needs an enema.

  • Clavos

    As far as I’m concerned you are an illegal alien trespassing on the earth, which rightly belongs to humans.

    Not if we illegal aliens say it doesn’t…

    Oh, wait, you didn’t mean us w e t b a c k s, did you?

  • zingzing

    now wait, clavos, you like being called a wetback, remember?

    and you know that’s not what she meant, didn’t you? come on now…

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Careful there Cindy, with 9-10-11 kids each they could be in the majority real soon!

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “I think she did an honorable thing.”

    I am sorry, what’s the honor in misleading people by fabricating a story? And very interesting that she made up the killer’s name. I wonder why John Smith didn’t come to mind.

    “No one can have an opinion about her opinion then? How very odd.”

    Looks like power hour is taking Hypocrisy 101 in school. Hopefully she’ll sign up for a class that will explain what a “free country” actually means.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    EB, It’s just a provocative way of presenting a viewpoint, get over it. It doesn’t reflect on the site in any particular way, except to say that we’re willing to let a writer stick their neck out with an unpopular opinion presented in a creative way.

    Clearly the subject matter is of interest and it has generated discussion, so from my point of view it’s doing something good for the site.

    Dave

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    El Bicho,

    “Power hour” is reflecting morality in the States – which, like its money, is debased and has lost a lot of its value.

    You see the hypocrisy – I see the hypocrisy. But in a country where cheating on tests is more the norm than the exception, where gang rape is becoming a spectator sport, where divorce is the rule and not the exception, where broken families are the rule and not the exception, and where pornography, and the sick values it promotes are everywhere, what do you expect?

    Of course, Amanda did the “honorable” thing. She created a tissue of fiction within which to plug an idea. That’s advertising, EB, pure and simple. Why should she tell the truth when everyone else around her lies and bends the truth? And she’s studying advertising, for heavens sake, not theology or philosophy. When was the last time you saw “truth in advertising”?

    Give Amanda credit for at least admitting what she did. She didn’t have to do that. Now, she can learn from the comments in this thread about important things like honesty, truthfulness and credibility, things that will serve her well in the future. She has some serious choices that she faces with respect to morality that she will have to apply in a business where truth and honesty are not necessarily ingredients in the normal product sold.

    As for “power hour”, a “power breakfast” of gall and wormwood awaits – served up by someone like “sara jane”, who at least has her head on straight.

  • zingzing

    rivy: “But in a country where cheating on tests is more the norm than the exception, where gang rape is becoming a spectator sport, where divorce is the rule and not the exception, where broken families are the rule and not the exception, and where pornography, and the sick values it promotes are everywhere, what do you expect?”

    that could describe a whole lot of places, ruvy.

    “someone like “sara jane”, who at least has her head on straight.”

    except she’s blind to her own hypocrisy. and she jumps to false conclusions. [Edited. I believe you know where the boundaries are, zingzing…]

  • Clavos

    now wait, clavos, you like being called a wetback, remember?

    And my comment refuted that how?

    Careful there Cindy, with 9-10-11 kids each they could be in the majority real soon!

    According to the Census Bureau, we’re already well on our way.

    Learn Spanish…

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Clavos, that wasn’t meant as disrespect, it was meant as fact. One of the best learned lessons in the bible is that if you’re an oppressed minority, have lots of kids. It might not help you in the present, but your grandchildren will benefit from being “fruitful and multiplying”

    That’s what all that crap in the bible is about masturbation, hetrosexual anal and homosexuality. It’s not a morality lesson as the church would have you believe, it’s just that if you outlaw everything that doesn’t produce children, you’ll get to the majority faster, or at least have enough numbers to scare your adersaries.

  • zingzing

    clavos: “And my comment refuted that how?”

    maybe i see calling someone a wetback as more negative than you do. your use of spacing seemed to imply something of the sort, but you know, whatever. however, i’m pretty sure that most who see your comment would read it the same way i did.

  • Clavos

    First of all, my spacing was a result of two attempts to get the comment posted which were foiled by Akismet, so I used the spacing trick to fool it.

    Secondly, if you call me a wetback (or if you call Juan Charrasqueado one), that could be perceived as negative, but my calling all of us, including me, wetbacks, is no different from one AA calling another “nigger.”

  • Clavos

    Clavos, that wasn’t meant as disrespect, it was meant as fact.

    And I didn’t take it as such, Jet, in fact I did (and do) agree with you (and so does the Census Bureau); Latinos will be the biggest single ethnic group in the US very shortly, though not an actual majority unless we ally ourselves with the Asians and/or AAs (and there is a certain enmity disconnect between AAs and Latinos, even the black ones).

    And I wasn’t kidding about learning Spanish. Already, here in Miami, Spanish has supplanted English as the dominant language. You don’t have to be able to speak it here yet, but increasingly, there are more and more places that don’t have English-speaking personnel, in fact entire sizable areas of the town are Spanish only already.

  • zingzing

    ah, akismet. you can’t even write about ethereal background music (amb-eye-ent) without it fucking with you. but i was able to write “wetback” without it fucking with me… dunno why you weren’t.

    as for your secondly, i wouldn’t go around calling anyone “wetback,” and neither would cindy. you suggested that she would… which was kinda mean. and you knew she wasn’t talking about illegal aliens, so i don’t even know why you’d try and act like you thought she did.

    and secondly to your secondly, you’d probably have some explaining to do if you went up to a stranger and started calling them “wetback,” because you look like “whitey.” so don’t get too cavalier with that.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    You people nede to leran my altenerate cdoe taht I demnosrtated on antoher stnrig.

    atfer yuo gte usde to it you can raed it qutie esaeliy becuase the hamun brian acutally olny raeds the fisrt and lsat letetrs of a wrod and sacnns the rset.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    As lnog as all of teh lteters are tehre asmiket can go srcew istlef beacuse we humnas are smrater tahn cempuetrs…

    rghit?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    To all –

    Dave said, …we’re willing to let a writer stick their neck out with an unpopular opinion presented in a creative way. Clearly the subject matter is of interest and it has generated discussion, so from my point of view it’s doing something good for the site.

    That’s a true statement – otherwise he’d have gotten rid of me a long time ago. But the conservatives need to realize that just as they have the right – indeed the duty! – to point out when they think we’re wrong, we also have that same right, that same duty to point out when we think they are wrong.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    As long as it’s not on AM talk radio Glenn

  • Clavos

    you’d probably have some explaining to do if you went up to a stranger and started calling them “wetback,” because you look like “whitey.”

    Probably not, because I’d be speaking Mexican Spanish and would use the term mojado/a.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    And I wasn’t kidding about learning Spanish. Already, here in Miami, Spanish has supplanted English as the dominant language. You don’t have to be able to speak it here yet, but increasingly, there are more and more places that don’t have English-speaking personnel, in fact entire sizable areas of the town are Spanish only already.

    It’s not just urban Florida either. Here in central California there are numerous small towns out in the boonies where Spanish is the first or only language spoken.

    Don’t think this is a new thing either. Latinos were here long before the English-speaking whites, and didn’t stop speaking Spanish just because the USA annexed the place.

  • John baylor

    That was dumb and poorly written.

  • zingzing

    clavos: “Probably not, because I’d be speaking Mexican Spanish and would use the term mojado/a.”

    i dunno. i can insult people in a few different languages, but that doesn’t make it any less insulting. shrug. i’d still suggest you refrain from it.

  • Clavos

    i’d still suggest you refrain from it.

    Thanks, but you’re a few years late with that advice.

    haven’t had a problem yet.

    I am, after all, a Mexican.

    And lots of us are Europeans, though the majority are indigenous.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Así que si yo quería publicar un comentario tendría que ir a algunos on-line y luego copiar y pegar?

  • zingzing

    you mean to say that you really go up to strangers and call them “wetback,” or “mojado” or whatever? i suppose i have, on occasion, said “what’s up honky?” to a FRIEND, but i wouldn’t think it proper, or polite, or whatever, to slide up next to the nearest white person and use the term. i would only use such a term to a stranger if i wanted them to know i look down on them. my friends, however, know i look down on them, so it’s no surprise.

    as a sign of familiarity, whatever, epithet away. but… to a stranger? that’s kind of fucked up in one way or another.

    one day, you’re going to pick the wrong person, and they’ll let you know just how displeased they are…

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Re 61: so I know what went into the translator but what came out… since I don’t speak Spanish?

  • Clavos

    one day, you’re going to pick the wrong person, and they’ll let you know just how displeased they are…

    OK zing…

  • Clavos

    Jet,

    It says:

    “So if I wanted (word supplied is wrong tense in Spanish) to publish a comment I would have to go to some online and then copy and paste.”

    That’s the literal translation back of whatever you put into the bot.

    As you can see, the online translation bots (at least the free ones), leave a lot to be desired.

  • zingzing

    clavos: “OK zing…”

    ok, clavos.

    (really, i doubt you’d be crass enough in real life to do something like that.)

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    peddle that garbage to someone who will fall for it. we both know that the piece shouldn’t have been published as submitted, but it’s not surprising to find you supporting fabrication to make a point.

  • Tdawg

    How can all of you bleeding heart liberals get so bent out of shape over a college girls story. You should get more bent out of shape over the fact that you are too ignorant to stop reading something that offends you. Maybe your socialist government should pass legislation against this type of dangerous self expression so your bleeding hearts don’t get so upset.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Looks like ‘Tdawg’ needs to learn to stop reading something that offends him, too….

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    My fairmindedness has been tested many times, the fact that I actually read past the tired and ridiculous phrase “bleeding heart liberals” is testament to it…

    I wonder how long that will last?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    EVERYONE NEEDS TO PAUSE BRIEFLY AND PRAY FOR THE SOLDIERS AT FT. HOOD. I’m not a religious man, but I plan to now…….

  • Arch Conservative

    Liberals won’t think twice about killing an innocent baby but in the same breath will tell us we can’t off scum like Abu-Jamal Mumia.

    There’s a push for the death penalty up here in NH after a horrific murder that just happened. The more NH becomes like Texas and the less we become like MA, the better.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Zing, I can think of no better way to honor our soldiers than to pity and ignore him.

  • zingzing

    apparently, the comment editors are doing your bidding for me. that’s cool. totally expected it. archie suckles from the teets of his ideology as much as i do. at least mine tastes nice. his tastes acrid. and stupid.

  • Arch Conservative

    Yes ignore me..that’s fine.

    But you’d have to have an extra big gulp of the Obama koolaid not to see how insulting to the military his little shoutout was.

    Jet’s logic……..”I don’t like Arch Conservative so therefore because he doesn’t like Barack Obama, anything Obama does is just fine in my book”

    Hate to tell you but there are millions of people out there that saw how disgraceful it was.

  • zingzing

    that makes absolutely no sense. what the fuck are you talking about? whose shoutout?

    “I don’t like Arch Conservative so therefore because he doesn’t like Barack Obama, anything Obama does is just fine in my book”

    you think you’re very important, eh? archie trumps the president? maybe your mother would like to think that, but, really… have you lost it?

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    The enemy of your enemy if your friend… that’s cute.

  • zingzing

    ah. now archie does know that obama was giving the closing remarks at a conference when the ft. hood thing came up, right? that he was actually there to speak about something and this wasn’t just about ft. hood… i’m sure he knows that, but he can’t wrap his mind around WHY obama would do what he was there to do before talking about ft. hood. if obama had waited and held a separate press conference solely about ft. hood, he’d be saying that he shouldn’t have waited, as he had a press conference right there. but nooooo.

    it’s pretty easy to see why that went down the way it did. all you have to do is use a little logic. but archie and his ilk just love playing dumb for the rest of us. no wonder all we can do sometimes is stare in disbelief.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    If the President had coughed, thousands would’ve screamed that it was an insult to the troops.

    How soon we forget how Bush sat and read “My pet goat” and dawdled for 9 minutes before doing anything during a crisis.

    Bush in his paranoia would’ve seen it as a plot by evildoers to attack Texas and sent in the marines to restore order,
    changed the terror threat to army green after misinterpreting the color code, but only after he’d put Chenney in charge and gone into hiding in case one of his secret service men was a terrorist too. Can you see Bush jumping out of his skin every time he saw a U.S. Army soldier with a gun?

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    OK, enough is enough. How wingnuts can turn this massacre at Fort Hood into another slam at Obama is beyond belief. First of all, the cable news outlets did America a great disservice with all the misinformation thrown at us during the course of the day. This is the result of sensationalist “news”. And we, the consumer, need to take a serious look at our own viewing habits and the aftermath.

    What happened yesterday was tragic. What’s horrific is that this disturbed soldier will become the poster child for anti-Muslim sentiments getting even harsher. I’m surprised that wingnuts like those at FOX haven’t figured out yet that Major Hasan’s first name is Nidal which is Ladin spelled backwards. That must mean that he’s a terrorist, huh? We don’t know what precipitated this man’s rampage and it really serves no one to speculate until all the facts are disseminated. Once the dust has settled we need to take a cold, hard look at our military leaders. If it is true that Hasan was in the cross-hairs months ago, we need to see where the system broke down. And the way I see it the responsibility falls square on the shoulders of the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security. If we can’t even identify problems within our own military, how can we trust the military to care for its own? If we can’t rely on the military to provide ACCURATE information to the public in real time, then the military needs to stop feeding us information until it’s been completely verified.

    Ronald Reagan’s mantra in office was trust but verify. I think it’s time for this Federal government to implement procedures across all departments where everything is verified. Then, and only then, can some modicum of trust be returned to government. Two weeks ago we were captivated by the balloon boy. Yesterday we were captivated by Fort Hood. In both cases we have lessons to be learned.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    People complaining about Arch ought to read “The Old Woman and the Snake”

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Hard to belief the havoc I can cause by asking for a moment of silence for the dead and wounded soldiers… I’m not even religious any more!

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    No havoc from this end, Jet. My heart goes out to those soldiers and their families. The havoc caused yesterday should compel this Commander in Chief to demand full accountability from military brass. To just place blame completely at the feet of Hasan and avoid the dynamics which precipitated his alleged behavior is unacceptable.

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    No havoc from this end, Jet. My heart goes out to those soldiers and their families. The havoc caused yesterday should compel this Commander in Chief to demand full accountability from military brass. To just place blame completely at the feet of Hasan and avoid the dynamics which precipitated his alleged behavior is unacceptable.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    USA Today: Reports suggested that soldiers may have heard him shout something like “Allahu Akbar” — Arabic for “God is great!” — just before he fired two automatic handguns. He was shown on a security video tape from a local convenience store wearing religious garb just hours before the shooting. And family members said that he had complained about being harassed expressly because he was a Muslim, and that he had expressed deep concerns about deploying.

    Acquaintances said Major Hasan was upset about his future deployment in a war zone, and heatedly opposed United States foreign policy in discussions with fellow soldiers. Earlier this year law-enforcement officers monitoring Islamic Web sites identified Major Hasan as a blogger who posted comments on suicide bombings in which he equated such acts to those by soldiers who use their own bodies to shield fellow soldiers from exploding shrapnel

  • http://delibernation.com/blog/3 Silas Kain

    Jet, with all due respect, the information coming out of news organizations can’t be trusted. The virtual see-saw of information yesterday makes my point. I think it would be wise for everyone to just simmer down and let the facts be gathered before we try and make sense of all this. And, again, the bottom line must be that military brass accounts for their lack of action and passion for misinformation.

  • Lee

    I believe that the death penalty should be abolished, too, because even though the killers purposely killed their victims, I think they should be free to live and think about what they did. They get to know that they have all the innocent blood on their hands, and everyone knows that murderers will go to HELL if they don’t repent to GOD first. HELL is an eternity worse than anything the courts decide to do with them. Almost half of the people who go to prison for murder, say the SINNER’S PRAYER and get back into the GRACE of GOD. Sometimes it takes years for a killer to realize s/he is wrong and they should have that choice, too. I’m not trying to say they weren’t wrong to kill in the first place, because they know they were. Unless they have a legitimate mental illness and didn’t know what they were doing. Then the courts could send them to a psych ward for life. In the end it wouldn’t make a bit of difference whether the killer was dead or locked up for life, the families would still get justice for the innocents.

  • emma

    Hi there,
    I am currently doing a research project on whether or not the death penalty is an effective form of punishment. If you have any helpful information or opinions on this topic I would greatly appreciate your input. please email me at eam79@uclive.ac.nz