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The Day American Democracy Suffered a Mortal Blow

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This is perhaps the most depressing article that I’ve ever felt the need to write. But America is done, finis, kaput. Oh, we’re still strong today, and we will be for a few decades to come, but the mortal blow has been struck.

The only protection that American citizens have ever had against the vagaries and excesses of big business is the American government. Thanks to the conservatives on the Supreme Court, big business now owns not only the federal elections thanks to their decision in Citizens United, but (more importantly), due to their decision today in American Tradition Partnership v. Bullock, big business owns the state and local elections too.

Why are the state and local elections more important than the federal elections? In a word: money. It’s easy to raise money for federal elections, but it’s hard to raise money for state or local elections. Thanks to the conservatives on the Supreme Court, a corporation can anoint a candidate which has promised them that they’ll get everything but the kitchen sink, and that corporation can pour millions, even tens of millions in dollars on that candidate if they want to in a small-town city election where (until today) even a few thousand dollars could make a big difference.

Even worse, now that big business will own elections, they will also own the judges who have to raise money for their elections, too.  Big business will have the legislatures and the courts in its hip pocket, and there’s nothing, absolutely nothing that the American people can do about it this side of an almost-impossible constitutional amendment. So what’s so bad about big business doing what’s good for business? Not only can worker safety protections be rolled back with impunity, but so can benefits and wages. How? Again, when big business owns the legislatures and the judges, what recourse will American workers have? None.

And how bad can this get? Ask yourself this: without a government strong enough to stand up for the people, would we have held BP accountable for the Gulf oil spill? Would Exxon have been held accountable for the Exxon Valdez? What about Love Canal? Or acid rain? When business owns the politicians and the courts, they can literally get away with murder.

Worst of all is that because big business now owns the political process all the way from the grass roots level to the White House, there’s no way (barring a miraculous takeover of both houses of Congress in November (and Obama growing a pair big enough to matter)) that big business will ever give up its stranglehold on the American worker. big business will cut wages and benefits with impunity, and then when people don’t have enough money to buy what big business is selling, the CEO’s will be completely mystified by the lack of demand and the drop in profits. But they will not do what’s necessary to grow the economy as a whole, for the business community has never in and of itself been sufficient for a healthy economy. No, instead they will continue to strive to weaken government, to cut into workers’ wages and benefits and protections, never mind that every strong economy in the world has a strong government and good wages/benefits/protections for the workers. We are going to devolve, if not to third world status, then at least to something akin to that found in some of the Balkan nations: an old country with a marginal economy insufficient to really support itself. And thanks to big business owning the politicians and the courts, backroom deals will be a way of life and there’s absolutely nothing we’ll be able to do about it.

There are good and bad governments, and corrupt and not-so-corrupt governments, and even tyrannical and despotic governments. But in every case, no matter how bad the government is, the only protection citizens have against the vagaries and excesses of big business are that government. Thanks to the conservatives on the Supreme Court, we and our children and our children’s children will have little or no such protection. Again, it won’t happen overnight; it will take decades for the decision of the Supreme Court to bear fruit. But bear bitter fruit it will, and we’ll all have to take big honking bites.

America is done; we just don’t know it yet. Big business has won, and at the same time slit its own wrists. It, and America, have irrevocably embarked on the slow, painful path to national decline. It won’t happen all at once, and there will still be great success stories and moments of great hope and even of national pride and glory along the way, but the deed is done. And as we decline, as death slowly creeps along the veins and arteries of America’s democratic body politic, most of us won’t even understand what happened, or why. The best we can hope for is that we don’t take down the rest of the free world with us.

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About Glenn Contrarian

White. Male. Raised in the deepest of the Deep South. Retired Navy. Strong Christian. Proud Liberal. Thus, Contrarian!
  • Les Slater

    Glen,

    You seem depressed. Why?

    Les

  • Chaz

    Don’t be so down. The struggle between the populace and business overlords has been going on in the U.S. since the Civil War. The first time corporations received the rights of people was in the 1880’s, I believe. That ushered in the Gilded Age, which prompted a wave of socialism and tilted the balance of power back into the hands of the people. The struggle has been there forever, it will always be there.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    Chaz is right, but unfortunately only to a certain extent. Big business has had its sticky fingers in American government since at least the mid-19th century: the most famous early example being the Crédit Mobilier affair.

    That scandal, as were most others, was brought to light by newspapers, who had their own political agendas, of course, but were not beholden to big business in those days to the extent they are now.

    Today, there’s scarcely a major newspaper that isn’t owned by a multinational corporation. Their investigative role is largely being taken over by bloggers, who are mostly hampered with fewer resources and tainted by association by the sheer numbers of crackpots out there on the Internet. Big business knows this: witness their strenuous efforts to wrest control of the World Wide Web before people start taking its denizens too seriously.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ

    Glenn’s true identity discovered!

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Doc –

    It’s for those reasons you listed that I strongly believe that we’re not going to ever again see a resurgence of democratic freedom in America. While big business has always tried to influence government, and while the overreach of business was never addressed by our government until Teddy Roosevelt (though Jefferson strongly warned us about it), that doesn’t mean that the pendulum will swing back in the direction of the rights of workers and the people. Indeed, where is it written that such a pendulum exists at all?

    As I said above, America will still see some good times – we’ll still have moments of national pride and glory, and there will be some great triumphs along the way…but the ability of corporations to influence local elections as they will has now been enshrined, and the death of democracy in America is only a matter of time. I give it three, maybe four decades. Of course, given that events occur much more quickly now, things could proceed more quickly than I suspect…but this is a slow-acting poison, as deadly to democracy as anything devised by man to kill his fellow man.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    RJ –

    Got a job? What happens if you get injured or killed on the job because the company decided that simple (and even federally-mandated) safety measures were too expensive, that the millions or billions in profits the were getting weren’t enough to justify protecting the physical safety of their workers?

    Today, you (or your family if you’re killed) could sue, and the state and federal government could step in on your side – just as they did with the Big Branch coal mine explosion after the bosses decided that simple and federally-mandated safety measures were too expensive (which, btw, was precisely the same reasoning that led to the BP oil spill).

    But thanks to your Supreme Court, a decade or two from now the corporations will own the judges and the police commissioners and the sheriffs (wherever such are elected to office) in addition to the state legislatures. And when the corporations own the legislature and the senior law enforcement officers and the courts, who will stand up for you and your family?

    No one.

    Maybe a few bloggers will take up your case, but major media will NOT – because they are corporate-owned as well. In other words, in the decades to come, when big business screws people over, ruins their lives, or even kills them, there will be ZERO effective recourse.

    Maybe nothing bad will ever happen to you, RJ – I hope not, for I wish ill on no one. But this IS going to happen, as history teaches us from the days of the Robber Barons to Bhopal to the BP oil spill. Welcome to the Brave New Conservative World.

  • Chaz

    About that pendulum…

    Polybios first noticed it, and called it anacyclosis. Government is cyclical. We’re in the oligarchy stage now, but it too shall pass.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Chaz –

    I’d like to think that it shall pass, but times change with technologies. As an example, can you name a generation in all humanity’s history that is as peaceful (relative to population) as it has been since 1990, even given the Rwandan genocide and our wars in the Middle East? I don’t think you can.

    So what changed? Did humanity change? Or did technology enable or force a change (since we now can literally end all human life on earth)? Either way, it’s different now. That example in and of itself should show that it is folly to assume that because “that’s the way it’s always been”, that’s the way it will be now and in the future.

    You and I obviously share that deep appreciation for history and the lessons it has to teach (that those in power all too often forget). But every once in a while the technological progression of humanity forces a change in human society…and (barring worldwide catastrophe) the pace of change will no doubt continue to accelerate – and as it does, human society will continue to change and adapt as it must, sometimes not for the better.

    But don’t get me wrong – I’m enjoying the discussion and the mental challenge you present.

  • Les Slater

    As many have pointed out, none of this is new. Glenn’s pessimism stems from the length of the current direction and its depth.

    One must remember that most progressive laws and rights have not come from the government. The government, all three of its branches, have responded to political pressure from the streets.

    Looking to the government to solve our problems is a dead end.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Les –

    If the government is owned by corporations, then it has no need to listen to pressure from the streets. Why should it, when elected officials get far more money from corporations than from the people?

  • Les Slater

    Glenn,

    The corporations have owned the two major parties for eons. Indirectly they have also owned the courts including the Supreme Court.

    The main characteristic of the modern era is that the main antagonisms are between capital and the working class. The power, or at least potential power, of the working class is obvious. Not so of the corporations.

    The government is a tool, an instrument, of class rule. It’s strength lies in its apparent neutrality between capital and labor. That appearance of neutrality is wearing thin. The government is less powerful now than its been in quite a while. Its acts and its laws are a sign of desperation… and weakness.

    Les

  • http://www.lunch.com/JSMaresca-Reviews-1-1.html Dr. Joseph S. Maresca

    There are still small businesses. The small business sector has grown more substantial in recent years. In addition, millions of people stand to inherit from the declining World War II generation. There are still millions of union workers throughout the U.S. There are tens of thousands of professionals in each of the major professions like accountancy, law, engineering, actuarial sciences, computer sciences, medicine and other professions too numerous to list.

    There is still a powerful religious constituency on both the left and the right. The problem is that people must become more actively involved. President and General Eisenhower warned against the military industrial complex. President Kennedy challenged people to Ask What You Can Do For Your Country. In short, people must step forward from all walks of life to begin to change things for the better. Until that happens, others will take charge and everyone will be the worse off for it.

  • Chaz

    All revolutionaries faced the scary prospect of going against a much better armed ruling class. But I’m pretty sure that all revolutionaries, successes and failures, realized that the first step to any successful rebellion is spreading the belief that it can be done despite the advantages of the opposition.

    Yes, there are technological differences this time. Tanks, satellites, gunships — and coming soon, nano-technology.

    But our technological superiority hasn’t stopped Afghanistan from keeping us tied up for a decade (and the Russians for a decade as well). And it didn’t stop the Iraqis from putting us in boxes for a few years. But then, they had something to fight for. We’re not there yet. We will be soon. Once rebellion transforms from an intellectual pursuit into a necessity (something which usually accompanies starvation), the promise of death or pain loses its power to oppress.

    Additionally, when the corporations have extracted all the wealth they can from this country, and when the people grow angry enough, as they surely will, the oligarchs will pack up and leave. The DuPonts left France when the impoverished, starving, and poorly armed masses revolted, and they’ll leave the U.S. in time as well. Off to China or South America they’ll go. Or maybe back to Europe. When the cost of investing in oppression becomes greater than the benefit, they’ll leave. It’s simple economics, and Money is not patriotic.

    That time is not distant. The Friedmanian practice of draining public coffers to prop corporations has bankrupted this country and placed us into a level of debt that the corporations can not honor, and which we can not pay off. Like colonial Spain, our manufacturing capability is gone and we’re giving up our reserves. Once our government’s credit stops being honored, subsistence and welfare will end, and things will get ugly.

    Revolution will become a necessity. Society will break down. The wealthy will flee. A new, more democratic order will arise. That’s what Polybios wrote, and that destiny is inescapable.

    Back to your original point: Yes, we have a mighty and massive military that surpasses all others. However, have you considered the potential that we might have to sell it off to pay our debts? What good is a fleet of fighter jets that can’t be flown because of the prohibitive cost of fuel? And how well will a security system operate if you can’t hire anyone to run it?

    Another political prophet, Sun Tzu, wrote about the foolishness of fighting a war that does not pay for itself, noting that 40% of a state’s budget must go to military upkeep (we’ve been at that level for some time) – something which bankrupts the state and impoverishes the people. He observed that a general will not long keep his head in that situation. Again, we are at that point, or at least very near, and I for one welcome our new ant overlords.

  • Clav

    Looking to the government to solve our problems is a dead end.

    Quoted For Truth.

    [And Les and I reach that conclusion from radically different starting points — government is that bad for the people.]

  • http://www.lunch.com/JSMaresca-Reviews-1-1.html Dr. Joseph S. Maresca

    We need a no nonsense excess consumption tax to stop wasteful consumption. In addition, we need a flat tax so that everyone pays a fair share of taxes. We should legalize pot so that the local drug dealers would be required to find some other occupation. Legalizing pot would provide the state with huge tax revenues in the same way cigarettes and tobacco did and still do. We need to exit from all foreign entanglements that are costly and ultimately purposeless. In addition, we need to have higher taxes on bad food to provide funding for all the diseases caused by consuming it.

    We need to have a health and wellness health care system and not a disease management system. We need more blue collar education, as well as more infrastructure spending to repair all public facilities which are in a state of disrepair from years of neglect. We need to reintroduce mandatory gymnastics in schools at every level, as well as the workplace. We need to bolster Section 8 Housing so that people pay more affordable rents. This action alone would preclude the kind of fiasco we had in the recent decade; whereby, people who could not afford mortgages- got them to the detriment of the entire banking system.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Clav –

    Right. How did we get out of the Great Depression again? Who paid for all those jobs?

  • Les Slater

    Dr. J,

    For housing all we got to do is precipitate a plummet in real estate values, get rid of all the speculative ‘value’. Then reduce government to the extent they can not help enforce any debt collection.

    Les

  • Chaz

    Deal with reality: with what can be done. What should be done has never been done, so wishing for that is pointless.

  • Les Slater

    Chaz,

    If you’re referring to my post I’ve actually taken some steps, so far only talking to banks, about bursting the continuing housing bubble.

    Les

  • Igor

    @13-Chaz: good comment. I especially liked this sentence: The Friedmanian practice of draining public coffers to prop corporations has bankrupted this country and placed us into a level of debt that the corporations can not honor, and which we can not pay off.

    We’ve been systematically cashing in USA assets and sending the money to corporate overlords.

  • Chaz

    Sorry Les, I was referring to Dr. Joe’s dreamy post. Is he running for office or something? It’s all wishes, but no actions.

  • Chaz

    Thanks Igor — indeed. Have you read Naomi Klein’s “Shock Doctrine?” It goes into explicit and painful detail about all of that.

  • Chaz

    And back to comment #8: I wouldn’t say we’ve been more peaceful; just more efficient with our warfare. The US has been in a steady state of war (mostly covert and terroristic) since the start of the 20th Century. Orwell was right when he said the A-Bomb would end traditional war, but that hasn’t stopped us from instigating conflict all over the world.

  • Arch Conservative

    No it just died today. 6-28-12

  • Igor

    Chaz: Joe Maresca is a CPA and no more a “Dr.” than is “Dr. Dreadful”.

  • Chaz

    Should I actually engage with a brainwashed conservative troll?

    Okay, Arch, let’s see: a president who was elected by a majority of people (democracy) pushed a law that was ratified by a majority in Congress (democracy) and then further vindicated by the Supreme Court as Constitutional (democracy). Yet, despite all this, Obama is a dictatorial tyrant who is out to steal your freedom and destroy America. What kind of delusional world are you wandering through?

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    To be fair to Arch, Chaz, this is the same sort of complaint we heard about the Patriot Act and other Bush-era laws that faced legal challenges and were upheld by the SCOTUS.

    People forget that not liking a law does not necessarily mean that it signifies the end of democracy/prosperity/freedom/cheap gasoline/civilization/the planet/Life As We Know It.

    In perspective, of course, having to have health insurance is SOOOO much worse than being grabbed off the street because of something you borrowed from a library and thrown into a federal jail cell never to be heard from again.

    And to Igor: my doctorate is indeed genuine, but it is from a truly dreadful school. ;-)

  • Chaz

    Doc — that stings a little, but you’re right. I was out there protesting the Patriot Act and whining about its awful power as a threat to our freedoms and the end of America, but it was passed lawfully.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    PATRIOT is a bad and probably unnecessary law, but the Bush-loaded Supremes of the time didn’t see it that way.

    The only recourse to opponents now seems to be full repeal, which is the same thing conservatives are now talking about with regard to the Affordable Care Act.

    And in defense of Archie, he’s nothing if not consistent and his strenuous opposition to PATRIOT is also on record on these boards.

  • Igor

    My apologies, Dr D. Your bemused attitude persuaded me that your title was whimsical.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    Happy to clarify, Igor. But you’re mistaken about the origin of the bemused attitude. That comes from my time at Unseen University.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    I have to agree with Doc – Archie is nothing if not consistent on matters of conservatism.

    Sheesh – in one day I’ve defended both Warren and Archie. I must be feeling magnanimous after the constitutionality of the Affordable Care Act was affirmed.

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Not the liberal actor

    Glenn, does yesterday’s SCOTUS decision make you feel any better?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Warren –

    It means my sons won’t be rejected by health insurance companies for pre-existing conditions and that they won’t have lifetime caps on their care. So, yeah, I’m really happy, mostly because my sons will have access to health care. I guess in your book, being happy that my sons have health care makes me a (gasp!) socialist.

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Not the liberal actor

    Re: comment # 34, Glenn, has ANYONE ever denied you or your family access to healthcare? What you say is quite true, but policies that cover pre-existing conditions and have no lifetime caps have always been available. All you had to do was buy one. Why do you think it is acceptable to FORCE me to pay for/share the cost of a healthcare policy that benefits you, that does not directly benefit me? Why do you think it acceptable for me to pay if you or your sons get sick? I think you will be hard-pressed to find anyone who wants to deny you access to healthcare. The “problem” arises when you expect me to, involuntarily, foot your bill, or even share it. It’s fine if I voluntarily pay your bill. That is my choice.

    So I guess it all boils down to choice versus force.

    Does that attitude make me (gasp!) evil?

  • Igor

    @35-Not: Isn’t that the essence of ‘insurance’?

    Why do you think it is acceptable to FORCE me to pay for/share the cost of a healthcare policy that benefits you, that does not directly benefit me?

    Maybe insurance is the wrong way to pay for medical care. Maybe the best way is through the system already available for social costs: taxes.

    Maybe we need a federal system that provides medical care instead of medical insurance. Then the healthcare system could sub-contract out ‘insurance’ to insurance companies, using actuarial info to negotiate premiums. That would probably be better because then the parties at the table would have more commensurate powers. As it is, the poor little consumer is all alone up against a billion dollar corporation with high-priced lawyers and almost infinite funds to spend resisting the entreaties of the mere citizen.

  • Clav

    Maybe we need a federal system that provides medical care instead of medical insurance

    OMG!! Then we would have hospitals that functioned like the DMV; arrogant physicians with the skill levels (and attitudes) of USPS clerks, and no alternatives.

    Lovely idea, Igor.

  • Igor

    I was down at the DMV to solve a knotty problem and everything went swimmingly. Much easier than getting problems solved in my private medical insurance a couple years ago.

    My Post Office is quite nice, and the people there are a pleasure to see.

    I think your concerns are out-of-date.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Clav –

    Yeah, that’s why America’s the ONLY first-world nation where people go bankrupt and lose their homes because they can’t afford health insurance.

  • http://www.passionoftruth.blogspot.com Pam Messingham

    Glenn,

    And when the rich, via corporate monies, unite and control the government….what is that called? Ummmmm fascism!

  • Chaz

    No, Pam. That is not the definition of fascism. It’s an oligarchy. The strict definition of fascism has never been settled upon, but generally it applies to systems of government tied to political or philosophical beliefs that are then strictly (violently) applied to the people.

  • Chaz

    Oh, and as far as American healthcare being the best: I had to wait a month to see an ear specialist. I’ve got pretty good coverage. And I had to wait a month. So when I hear conservatives say it takes a week or two to see a doctor in Canada, that sounds pretty good to me.

  • Igor

    Hi Chaz. I was in Rodez France when I had an ear infection and it took me about 2 hours to see a physician and get an examination. Cost me about $25. With a $10 prescription I was back in business by dinner time.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Pam –

    You know that and I know that, but I guess it just goes to show how effective money is at changing the public’s perception of the meaning of a word.

  • Clav

    @Igor#38:

    You say: I think your concerns are out-of-date.

    And perhaps you’re right.

    But your two little personal anecdotes don’t even come close to proving your point.

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Not the liberal actor

    Re: comment #36, Igor, call the system you propose what you want, and have it administered as you want, but your proposal STILL does not address the question I ask. WHY do y’all find it acceptable to dip into my pocket to pay for things over which I have no control?

  • Zingzing

    Warren, you pay for things you have no control over every single day. That’s called living in a civil society. Do you not know this?

  • Zingzing

    you pay for wars, you pay for torture, you pay politicians’ salaries, you pay for holding murderers in prison long enough that it’s cool to kill them, you pay for a lot of things. A few bucks (which you pay now anyway through premiums,) thrown into a pool that helps some innocent person facing bankruptcy or death because they can’t afford to get the medical help they need should be way down your list of things to bitch about. It’s absurd.

  • Clav

    A few bucks (which you pay now anyway through premiums,) thrown into a pool that helps some innoce–insurance company(ies) make even more money than they were.

    There. Fixed it for ya, zing.

    Coz it won’t be the people who benefit from Obamacare, it will be the insurance companies; they have just been handed a solid gold, locked-in universal franchise by the first bipartisan legislative cooperation we’ve seen in a long time: Obama and the Dems, with some help from a few Republicans, set it all up, and the “conservative” SCOTUS tied it all up with a pretty red, white and blue ribbon.

    Aren’t we lucky…

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Not the liberal actor

    Re: comments # 47 and 48, Zz, Just like Igor, you addressed the WHAT rather than the WHY.

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Warren –

    The WHY comes down to a basic question of economic infrastructure. If you take care of your infrastructure, all sectors of the nation – whether business or the public sector – will benefit. This was why Eisenhower got us to build the interstate highway system, if you’ll recall, and I don’t hear too many griping about the economic benefits it’s had over the years.

    But we’ve been ignoring the single most important part of our infrastructure: people. If the people are healthier and more educated and not living on the street, the better and longer they’re able to work productively.

    Warren, that last sentence in a nutshell is why ALL first-world nations (other than a few filthy-rich OPEC nations) are socialized democracies. If you invest in the people and make sure they are healthy and educated (i.e. able to work), they will work as most humans do.

    Or you can put it in the way that most football coaches do: take care of your team, and they will take care of you.

    Or you can put it in the way that most military leaders do: take care of the troops, and they will take care of you.

    Or you can put it in the way that some business leaders do: take care of your people, and they will take care of you.

  • Igor

    @46-Not: you may remember these words from some famous troublemakers: “…we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

  • http://rwno.limewebs.com Not the liberal actor

    Re: comment # 51 , Glenn, as usual, you talk (in this case write) around the question, but you refuse to answer the specific question I asked in comment # 46. You talk about the Interstate highway system, football coaches, troops, and buisness leaders, but you don’t answer my specific question. Besides, your examples are not the same as the situation about which I ask. For example, you cite the Interstate system. Yes, it is infrastructure. We have BOTH benefitted from it. But what you failed to do was explain (1) how my paying for your health insurance has anything to do with infrastructure (you claim it to be an infrastructure question, but offer no argument, no reasoning, or citations), and (2) how I benefit from paying for your health care. I agree that doing things for football teams and troops can boost morale, but whether I do things or not is MY decision.

    Re: comment # 52, Igor, I think you have lost touch with reality. How on earth does what you say apply to any comments here?

  • Glenn Contrarian

    Warren –

    I did answer your question – you’re just choosing to ignore the answer (you’re not so simple that you couldn’t see it). But I’ll try one more time to help you understand.

    It is essential for any nation to keep its infrastructure in good shape. PEOPLE are the most basic part of any nation’s infrastructure. Got that? Without the people to do every single task in a nation, the nation is nothing…and if the people are not in good health, they cannot work well and often become dependent on the state.

    Now think REAL hard about this, Warren – would you rather live in a first-world nation, or a third-world nation? First-world nations are cleaner and safer and are technologically advanced throughout, whereas third-world nations are NOT.

    ALL first-world nations (except for America and oil-rich nations in the Middle East) take care of their people FIRST…and as a result the people are more able to work, to not depend on the state for their daily bread. However, if the people do not have access to quality health care, then they are NOT able to work…and sooner or later they go to the emergency room and the taxpayers wind up paying three times the cost.

    You’re going to pay ANYWAY, Warren – so which makes more sense? To pay to keep someone healthy? Or to pay three times the price when that unhealthy person goes to the emergency room?

    And BTW, since when are you going to pay more under Obamacare? Assuming you’ve got health insurance, that won’t change, and your insurance company can’t drop your coverage due to the ‘lifetime cap’ or due to a preexisting condition…AND your insurance company is required to spend at least 80% of their revenue on actual health care instead of “administrative” costs. YOUR costs are not changing at all. The only ones that will pay more are those who can afford health insurance but have chosen not to get it.

  • Igor

    53-Not: nobody here is obliged to answer your questions. We are all aware that most rhetorical questions are designed by the poser as traps to lure the unwary into an uncomfortable defense.

    You surely know that, don’t you?

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    He does, Igor.

    But for some reason he thinks he’s the ONLY one who does.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    WHY do y’all find it acceptable to dip into my pocket to pay for things over which I have no control?

    Why does it have to be all about your almighty pocket, Warren?

    Anyone would think you were the only damn taxpayer in this country…

  • Igor

    It was a rhetorical question, D.D. I was trying to amuse.

  • Igor

    53-Not: if you don’t understand then there’s no way I can explain it to you.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    @ #58: Yes, Igor, I know.