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The Approaching Civil War in Israel – Sleepwalking into a Nightmare

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Warnings from Politicians

I picked up this little item from Arutz Sheva Thursday morning (26 November 2009). Ynetnews carefully avoided mentioning MK Danny Danon's (Likud) warning that Barak and Netanyahu are leading us to civil war in its coverage of a meeting of leaders from Judea and Samaria.

Later that day, MK Tzipora Hotobeli (Likud) amplified this point, saying that Prime Minister Netanyahu had made a mistake in strategically separating Judea and Samaria from Jerusalem in dealing with the United States and its little "Palestinian" puppet Mahmoud Abbas.

Not all of our soldiers are happy with being used as goons to kick out fellow Jews from their homes, when it is obvious to them (and any sane individual) that instead of ruining the lives of Jews (and fellow Israeli citizens), they should be protecting them from depradations of terrorists bent on murdering them.

But Security MInister Ehud Barak (Labor), just the day before (25 November 2009), had warned recruits that soldiers' protests against the illegal use of force against Jewish residents in Judea and Samaria would be met with an iron fist.

And Binyamin Netanyahu is determined to bow to the setting sun of the Americans, as did the evil priests in the days immediately before the destruction of the Temple of Solomon, who defecated in front of the Altar of G-d as they faced the sun worshipping it.

Events of the last several weeks or months here in Israel lead inescapably to this conclusion: the day that Jewish residents will have to fire on Jewish policemen and soldiers to protect their homes is approaching rapidly.

The Double Standard of the Hiloní Establishment in Israel

First, let's look at the viciousness of the Border Guards and Israel Police in dealing with Jews here in Judea and Samaria, and the double standard applied in law here, where Arabs are given a nearly free pass, and Jews are treated like trash. It was this kind of evil that brought upon us the Holocaust in Europe – Jews persecuting Jews.

Two days ago, a member of mishmár hag'vúl, the Border Guards who are paramilitary police, was indicted for beating up a national camp demonstrator.

According to Arutz Sheva, this all took place last July. "The police originally claimed they were the ones who were attacked, but authorities accepted a video as evidence that police officer Tal Yemini was the instigator."

The victim, a youth at MaHané Horón, a Samarian community, was shown in the video with Yemini shoving his fist in his nose and eyes, though the boy did not display any aggressive behavior. Nevertheless, the police arrested the youth on charges of "attacking a policeman."

This incident was newsworthy because it was more in the "man bites dog" category than "dog bites man". Members of the Border Guard routinely incite national camp demonstrators and attack them, and then arrest them for "attacking police officers". According to Arutz Sheva, spokesmen for the Civil Rights Organization of Judea and Samaria also charged that Border Police discriminate against Jews by arresting them often without evidence, while routinely releasing Arabs immediately after arrest.

The pigs are the same the world over, telling the same lies, and getting pliable or bought-off judges to go along with their fraud. The instances where the judge does not go along with the fraud and lies are the newsworthy ones.

An example of this is this case where a cop was sued by his victim over how he treated him during the expulsion at 'Amóna, four years ago. Arutz Sheva also reported on this nine days ago on 17 November. According to the article, shotér (Patrolman) David Atia will pay almost NIS 60,000 to David Ladvin, whom he attacked at the protest against demolitions at 'Amona in 2005. Atia was filmed butting Ladvin, his head in his helmet. Nevertheless, note carefully: the judge in the case, Judge Karmi Mosek of the the Jerusalem Magistrates' Court, set aside a criminal conviction of Atia for assault so that he could continue serving on the police – and continue attacking other demonstrators. There may well be other issues involved as well. By setting aside the criminal conviction of shotér Atia, the judge did not interfere with the pazá"m, the system of promoting cops and soldiers according to time served rather than merit or passing of exams. So David Atia will likely wear some kind of rank, and get better pay. Beating up religious Jews pays in the Israel Police.

Not long ago, police expelled Jews from their homes near Hevron – but according to Arutz Sheva, illegal Arab homes with demolition orders ten years old were untouched by the police action.

Judges in many parts of Israel follow along in this mollycoddling of Arab terror. Judge Yuval Shadmi of the Nazareth District Court refused to sentence an Arab youth to jail time for throwing rocks at a police squad car. His reason? He alleged that Jews who do the same thing in Judea and Samaria are not prosecuted or jailed for the same things. Reminders from the the Organization for Civil Rights in Judea and Samaria that the opposite was true, and that considerable evidence of this had been collected already (witness the cases cited above, for example), were ignored by the good judge.

In the meantime, the government violates the agreements it makes with its citizens. The Israeli government had an agreement with a Knesset sub-committee chairman, Ze'ev Elkin (Likud), that no expulsion would be conducted on the Sabbath. And then it swooped down on Homesh – where expelled residents are trying to rebuild homes – on the very Sabbath it agreed not to violate.

Let's end this portion of the article with one more example of what passes for "justice" in this land. In 2005, a fifteen-year-old kid was hitching a ride when two cops accosted him and demanded to see his teudát zehút, his ID papers. He had none. You have to be 16 years of age or older to obtain a teudát zehút. He attempted to tell the cops that and asked them to check his ID through the computer system they have in their cars. They refused. They shoved him in the back of the car on the floor and beat and kicked the boy. According to Arutz Sheva, two soldiers who were at a nearby guard post, and a third soldier who was in the area, testified that they tried to intervene but that the policemen refused to stop beating the boy. The Human Rights Committee of the Council of Jewish Communities in Judea and Samaria secured the release of the youth and a complaint was filed with police. The upshot? A police disciplinary court fined the two cops NIS 1,200 (about $315) in damages, and no criminal charges were filed against them.

Rights and Wrongs

One should be clear here. The expulsion from Homesh, just like the expulsion from Gush Qatif, was illegal. The residents of all these towns and villages had built their homes and lives at the encouragement and approval of the government of Israel. Every legitimate effort to push this expulsion through failed. All the efforts to "legalize" this expulsion were "k'ílu", in other words, end runs around the law. But it was done; the Hebrew press (following the lead of the anti-Israel media world-wide) beat the drums of contempt for those living in Gaza, Judea and Samaria; it ignored herculean efforts to impress the citizenry; and the government leaders stopped up their ears and committed illegality anyway, expelling the 8,000 residents of Gush Qatif and 2,000 residents of northern Samaria.

In doing so, they broke the law of the land, abusing fiat rights of authority, the kind of tyrannical excesses that used to be common in the monarchy of England, to pave their illegal way. The courts, under the rule of the same Hiloní G-d-hating, Torah-hating elite stood aside and washed its hands, and the government perpetrated treason and ethnic cleansing upon its own people. One would have thought that we were Syrian or Iraqi fellahín, the way the government has acted here, that we could be expelled from our homes, have our lives ruined, or even be killed at the will of the régime of traitors in Jerusalem.

Those who attempt to settle the Land, those who try to rebuild their homes and lives, are in the right. And the Stalinist bastards who do the bidding of the United States and of Europe are in the wrong. The traitors in Jerusalem have sunk to the low sewer of the nastiest Arab tyrants, to the level of the scum and savages who ruin Arabia and Persia. Their goons have sunk with them. They are no better than gutter trash. Bullets are too good for them. There has already been Divine Retribution against the Americans who pressured the Israeli govewrnment to do this evil. Divine Retribution will come against the Israeli leaders who are as bad as the Jew-hating dung of Russia and Germany.

In their continued depravity, they defecate upon the honor of the young men and women who put their lives on the line to keep these bastards in office in Jerusalem.

Soldiers' Protests and the Larger Picture

Now, let's look at the events of recent weeks surrounding the k'fir "Young Lions" Battalion of the IDF.

There is a history of difficult relations, if not outright hatred, between the Hiloní (secular and anti-clerical) establishment that controls the army and the press and the religious Jews and their own establishments in the army. As I've pointed out elsewhere, a large proportion of the IDF is religious and loyal to the idea of a G-d of Israel and the mission for the Children of Israel, a mission expressed in various ways, while the top brass is a G-d-hating, Torah-hating establishment, a fossilized remainder from the pre-state days when the left-wing kibbutzim supplied the majority of the fighting men as well as commanders.

As a reminder of this hatred, a Channel 2 news broadcaster called for the dissolution of the hésder yeshivót, which train soldiers who maintain religious values. According to this Arutz Sheva report, Ronny Daniel reminded viewers that former IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz had said at the time of the Disengagement in 2005 that he would "settle accounts" with soldiers who refused to participate in the Disengagement. In case anyone has forgotten (and I'm sure all of you have), Halutz was the IDF CoS who sold his stocks in Israeli firms in July 2006, fearing a decline of their values in a war; he also designed the disastrous strategy that the IDF followed in the Second Lebanon War.

The brigades in the K'fir Battalion, which serves largely in Judea and Samaria, have been protesting the expulsion of Jews by Jewish soldiers in Judea and Samaria by holding up various signs at graduation ceremonies held at the Western Wall saying that their brigade does not expel fellow Jews. While the Hebrew media and the government have tried to focus their anger on the religious Jews in the K'fir Battalion and on the hésder yeshivót which train them, the truth is that religious and secular soldiers alike share this view. And because they are usually the ones called upon to do the evil deed, backing up the more vicious and ideologically motivated Border Guards and Israel Police, they are more sympathetic to the Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria – people often beset by outside agitators who try to stir up Arabs against them, as well as by American snoops who try to worm information out of them, and by "peace groups" who commit espionage, funded by foreign countries like Finland and England.

Strictly speaking, the signs at the ceremonies are insubordination and should be punished as such. But, more honestly speaking, these soldiers have been forced to perform illegal political tasks by a government that, in negotiating the surrender of sovereign Jewish land to an enemy, has committed treason in the plain sense of the word. So, if these soldiers rightfully protest the treasonous actions of their government, they are in the right and the government is in the wrong – as it has been ever since it agreed to the Oslo Suicide Accord.

And that is the bottom line here.

Soldiers and Israelis generally can see that the American government is an enemy of this country. American President Obama has, as I hoped he would, stripped away the mask of "friendship" worn by more proficient American liars like George W. Bush and Bill Clinton. The reality of the bully/bullied relationship of the United States towards Israel is plain as day now. Obama is the target marker. All those who bow to the will of this evil man and his flunkies are targets – people to be ejected from government here, to be replaced by honest patriots who will not waste their time on the trash from Europe and the United States.

It is time for a man to arise amongst us who will have the courage of Matayahu the Kohen, the father of the Maccabees, who ran his sword through a Jew who, like Netanyahu, Peres and Barak, bows to the idols of "peace" and falsehood.

Hanukka approaches. May the Almighty grant us a miracle.

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About Ruvy

Hi!! Thanks for coming to my article! I was raised in Brooklyn, was graduated from the City University of New York in 1978 with a BA in political science and public administration there. I lived in Minnesota for a number of years. There I managed restaurants and wrote stories. We moved with our children family to Israel where we now reside. My work can be found at Ruvy's Roost, Jewish Indy,, and on Facebook under my full name, Reuven Kossover
  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Just wanted to thank the editors at BC for getting this out so fast! Shabbat Shalom!

    Ruvy

  • Mark

    One must admire the author’s courage in light of the fact that the Kach, the one-time political arm of the ideology that he espouses, was banned in his country in ’94 and is officially listed as a terrorist organization there.

    Events…lead inescapably to this conclusion: the day that Jewish residents will have to fire on Jewish policemen and soldiers to protect their homes is approaching rapidly.

    …bordering on advocacy — such bravery!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    Ruvy, I though Binyamin Netanyahu was one of the good guys and I’ve always like him. What’s the deal?

  • Rick

    A miracle will not be necessary. When mere men try to divide the land that the Almighty gave to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, G-D will directly intervene. The nations that come against Israel will be crushed and Israel will be judged for allowing this to happen. The true remnant of Israel will be saved. The prophecies of Ezekiel 38 and 39 are coming true before our very eyes. The 70th week of Daniel is about to begin.

  • Greycoat

    We may soon have a civil war in the US too. Obama is a liar and a destroyer. Do NOT trust him Israel or the Jew Rahm Emmanuel who works for him. He too is corrupt and evil. Judea and Samaria and all of Jerusalem belongs to Israel. Do not surrender land, but take all that G-D has given you, i.e. promised you.

    Obama will smile to your face as he lies preparing to stab you in the back. He is intentionally destroying my country, i.e. the US, and he will destroy yours too if the gets the chance. I just pray Obama is removed, by violence if necessary, from the Presidency by freedom loving Patriots who are willing to fight and defend our U.S. Constitution, our liberty, and our freedom, against a man, i.e. Obama, who wants to deny us such as he tramples our Constitution. Damn Obama to hell and his sidekicks like Rahm Emmanuel and the corrupt members of Congress doing his bidding.

    As to Bibi I like Bibi. I would like to have him as our President in the U.S. He’d be a whole lot better…a whole lot better than the Marxist/Fascist piece of trash we have in there now.

    “Soldiers and Israelis generally can see that the American government is an enemy of this country.”

    True. The American government, i.e. the Obama regime, is also an enemy of freedom loving Americans.

  • Zedd

    Ruvy,

    Write an article when you are NOT on the brink of some calamity over there and THAT will capture out attention.

  • http://www.apnideals.com John

    Wow man way too many fundamentalist comments on this page the promised land etc.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    We may soon have a civil war in the US too. Obama is a liar and a destroyer.

    Give me a friggin’ break. If there IS civil war in the U.S. it will be generated by frustrated fundamentalist white people who will use Obama as the convenient scapegoat. Has anyone stopped to think about how much of a ratings booster civil war would be? Rupert Murdoch will make a LOT of Euros.

    As far as Israel’s problems are concerned, they are Israel’s and we’d better serve the Israelis by allowing them to wring out the dirt from their society without our assistance or input. We’ve been sold a bill of goods with regard to Netanyahu. He’s an opportunistic, court Jew thug who is a traitor to his ancestors. Say what you will for and against Ruvy. There’s one thing Ruvy possesses and I admire — PASSION. Unfortunately, we here in the States lack that key ingredient in keeping our own homeland at peace. Our only passion is spending money we don’t have on things that we don’t need where the profits ultimately end up in China.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Using the bible to solve today’s moral problems is like consulting a circa 1961 algebra text book to solve a wayward computer algorithm

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Can you imagine the middle east without an unrepentant and ungrateful Israel that takes billions from us with one hand and slaps our face with the other…

    Aside from American born-agains speaking in tongues and our deficit falling through the floor… Peace?

  • Zedd

    Jet I don’t think you read the bible.

    Be ye kind one to another…. Outdated is it?

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    It’s difficult to catch your breath faced with such astonishing objectivity and sense of fairness in an article about Israel!

    Israel? That would be the same Israel that is in violation of just one or two UN resolutions: 192, 242, 446, 3236, 1397, 106, 111, 127, 162, 171, 228, 237, 248, 250, 251, 252, 256, 259, 262, 265, 267, 270, 271, 279, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 317, 332, 337, 347, 425, 427, 444, 446, 450, 452, 465, 467, 468, 469, 471, 476, 478, 484, 487, 497, 498, 501, 509, 515, 517, 518, 520, 573, 587, 592, 605, 607, 608, 636, 641, 672, 673, 681, 694, 726, 799… you get the idea.

    Israel? That would be the same Israel that implemented Plan Dalet in 1948, a blueprint for ethnic cleansing that continues to this day? Is it the same country that terrorised and expelled over 700,000 arabs from their homes in order to make space for settlements?

    And now? The government of Israel, bending ever so slightly to massive international pressure against the continued ethnic cleansing, has declared some settlements illegal which incidentally the settlers must have known in advance.

    The Israeli state has had a policy of terrorising the arab population in order to make it so difficult for them to remain, that they would be forced off the land. Deliberately breaking the economy of arab areas, restricting water and services, starving the population, systematically harrassing them, walling them in, all measures designed to force the Palestinians from their homes. This is in violation of all the international tenets of human rights but Israel has so far continued with impunity because of US support.

    And isn’t Israel the only country in the middle east to have attacked all of its neighbours at some time or other? And doesn’t it have nuclear weapons in a region that the international community is trying so hard to make nuclear free?

    Wouldn’t it be a good idea to consider it just as warlike and aggressive a state as any other in the region, a position that projected some into being candidates for regime change? And maybe we should consider sending in the weapons inspectors to check for the nuclear sites that in some quarters are still being denied?

    Minor details, all of course and no doubt Ruvy missed them out of the article with good cause. Now what would be that cause I wonder. Could it be Zionism, the claim to land based on a mention in an old religious book?

    If ever there was a case to be made against the use of religion to justify politics, Israel is the best example. Very many Jews deplore the politics of Israel, have no problem with Palestinians and want an end to the ethnic cleansing. They are sick and tired of the comparison of the damage done by home-made rockets, with the mass slaughter carried out by the massively financed Israeli armed forces. Even a quick look at the casualty figures and their composition shows the massive fire power of the Israelis. If you were a people driven from your homes, persecuted and attacked, walled in, deprived of economic and political rights, systematically denied an existence for sixty years, don’t you think that some people would choose to fight back?

    Maybe a civil conflict inside Israel pitting Zionists against the rest will sufficiently undermine the Israeli state to force an end to the Zionist aggression and restore a real form of democracy in which Arabs have the same legal and political rights as Jews. Israel is at present an apartheid state held up by massive military spending. Any claim to be a democracy is very shaky indeed.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I though Binyamin Netanyahu was one of the good guys and I’ve always like him. What’s the deal?

    shavúa tov! – have a good week!

    Here’s the deal. Bibi had a brother, Yonatan, who was a real nationalist, a real right winger, someone who was a firebrand. In Israel, military officers tend to rise into politics, and Yonatan Netanyahu was a natural leader, the kind of fellow who attracted loyalty, the kind of fellow the left-wingers in Israel’s defense estasblishment would have found a real threat. When Idi Amin allowed some German fascists and Arabs who had kidnapped a plane full of Jews to land in Entebbe in late June of 1976, it was Yonatan who was sent by the Security Minister Shim’on Peres to implement their rescue.

    One of the very few casualties or the rescue was Yonatan Netanyahu.

    His brother stayed away from politics and went to school in the States. Apparently, he was thinking of staying there, for he used the name Benny Nathan. For some reason, Benny Nathan was persuaded to return to Israel after completing his studies and took a job in a furniture store. He was persuaded upon to organize a conference on terrorism, the subject he has specialized in, and all sorts of people from the Rockefeller Foundation and other big money places in the States showed up to give it legitimacy and an imprimatur of importance. The Hebrew press showered Binyamin Netanyahu with all sorts of press attention, and from there it was only a matter of time before he made his way into the higher strata of Israeli politics. In other words, Christine, Binyamin Netanyahu was a politician manufactured by the American CFR types who run the show in your country. Ultimately, that’s where his loyalty lies. Similarly, his Security Minister, Ehud Barak, owes his career to Bill Clinton, who engineered his victory as prime minister in 1998 (or was it 1999?) with one of his political aides running the campaign.

    So, ultimately, the regime of traitors in Jerusalem is a made in Washington creation – which is why I heap condemnations on the government of the United States so much. They and their interference have brought us all this shit.

    The possible link between the presence of Shim’on Peres and the death of Yoni Netanyahu is a link originally researched by Barry Chamish, an investigative reporter who fled Israel after toppling Peres from his position at the top of the Labor Party in 2005. It was not the first time that a major Israeli officer died under mysterious or suspicious circumstances. General David Marcus, the first CoS of the IDF, was assassinated in Jerusalem in 1948 – and his assassin is still unknown.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Bob Lloyd has wasted much of his time to whinney out the Arab bullshit line so popular in Europe about that “shitty little country” they hate so much there, Israel.

    Most of what he says is not worth refuting, as it is just a bunch of bullshit. Only the hasbará anal types, who think that we have to justify ourselves to you goyim, will waste time refuting them. The truth is that it is what we do, and not what you think, that counts.

    One point is worth noting.

    General Assembly Resolution 181, passed in November 1947, the resolution which caused the resignation of American secretary of state George Marshall, was an illegal extension of the authority of the UN to begin with. But, given that the Arabs rejected it and went to war, it no longer had any validity over Israel at all. Therefore, all resolutions based on the bad fruit of 181, all of them – 192, 242, 446, 3236, 1397, 106, 111, 127, 162, 171, 228, 237, 248, 250, 251, 252, 256, 259, 262, 265, 267, 270, 271, 279, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 317, 332, 337, 347, 425, 427, 444, 446, 450, 452, 465, 467, 468, 469, 471, 476, 478, 484, 487, 497, 498, 501, 509, 515, 517, 518, 520, 573, 587, 592, 605, 607, 608, 636, 641, 672, 673, 681, 694, 726, 799, etc – are invalid on their face.

    In short, the UN has no authority here – except that which idiots give it – and even that is too much.

    Wouldn’t it be a good idea to consider it just as warlike and aggressive a state as any other in the region, a position that projected some into being candidates for regime change? And maybe we should consider sending in the weapons inspectors to check for the nuclear sites that in some quarters are still being denied?

    Go ahead – make my day. I have a friend in the IDF who can order the body bags for the inspectors and the goons sent with them Not everybody in the IDF is a traitor beholden to the sick fucks in the American and EU regimes.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    Well Ruvy, #13, interesting story about Binyamin Netanyahu. Jealousy abounds when you are the “Chosen” One”…will pray for you and your country!

  • http://blogcritics.org/writers/christine-lakatos/ Christine

    “Chosen People” I mean…

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—

    It does not appear that the demands of the United States to impose a construction freeze here in Judea and Samaria are going down well at all. Just before Shabbat, the vaunted Israel Air Force, which once proudly destroyed Egyptian and Syrian bases, conducted overflights over Judea and Samaria to photograph the status of construction here – as though we were the enemy!! According to Arutz Sheva, in Samaria, in Beit El, local authority head Moshe Rosenbaum, ripped up orders from the government stripping the local authorities of their control over building here. His comment – “This freeze is shameful. In the British ‘White Paper’ there were severe restrictions on the sale of land to Jews, and here a Jewish leader in the state of Israel has undertaken a similar racist policy. I am shocked by this decision,” Mr.Rosenbaum spoke with a Netanyahu aide and reminded the prime minister’s office that Netanyahu had an obligation to keep his word to the voters – that there would be no construction freeze in Judea and Samaria.

    In the meantime, Minister of Strategic Affairs, MK Moshe Ya’alon (Likud), fled the scene when confronted by aides of MK Michael ben-Ari, who had gone to a meeting in Qiryat Arba (in Judea) with protest signs, ready to throw sharp questions at Ya’alon. According to Arutz Sheva, a near riot broke out at the meeting.

    We can expect more such events in the future, as resistance to Netanyahu bowing to the evil Prince of the Setting Sun in the west (Obama) escalates.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    On YouTube, you can find a statement from Azmi Bishara, when he was a professor in 1996, stating in clear and unequivocal Hebrew – “There is no Palestinian Nation, there never was one. It was an invention of the colonialists.” In addition, untranslated by the presenter of the 46 second video, was Bishara stating that there were Arabs who were South Syrians. It should be noted that when Bishara used to be a member of the Israeli Knesset, he was a violently anti-Israel member of the Knesset, using his immunity as a Knesset member to engage in hateful incitement against Jews and Israelis. Nevertheless, he is not the only Arab to have denied there was a “Palestian” nation either. Other major leaders have admitted to the fraud the South Syrian Arabs have been pulling on the west and on Israel. Those of you who continue to believe this bullshit are the idiots and fools – people like Bob Lloyd or Zedd, for example.

    Amusingly, the idiots on the Channel 2 broadcast shown never pushed this point. Channel 2, part of the Hiloni (anti-clerical, secular, G-d-hating, and Torah-hating) media establishment, completely ignored basic issues that strike at the heart of the identity of the country – BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO SENSE OF JEWISH PRIDE, AND NO REAL PATRIOTISM OR LOYALTY TO ISRAEL.

  • Zedd

    it does not appear that the demands of the United States to impose a construction freeze here in Judea and Samaria are going down well at all.

    We are all shocked. We were holding our breaths waiting, hoping that peace in Israel was just around the corner.

    update update update Nobody cares. This is beyond crying wolf. You don’t want peace, just constant attention. Its old. I can just envision it. In 1000 years when religion is no longer relevant on this planet, Israelis will claim an alien visit and that they were told that they would be first on the Mothership and all those who kissed up to them could also come, when the world ends. Mark my words, the story will change but they will somehow be at the center of it all – SOMEHOW.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It comes with the territory of being the Chosen People.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Thank you for the kind words, Silas. I shoulda noticed earlier and thanked you earlier, and didn’t. My apologies. You are one of the few people on this list who groks what I write about here. Maybe it’s because you’ve been around the block a few times and stepped on the broken glass in the back alley – like I have.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—

    It appears that a revolt of sorts is developing in Judea and Samaria even as I type these words here. The mayor of Ariel, a city of 20,000 or so a few minutes away from here, Ron Nachman, has announced that he will not enforce the building freeze in Ariel. He joins the municipal head of Beit El, Moshe Rosenbaum, mentioned earlier in the evening. The secretariat of several smaller villages have announced a long time ago that they will not cooperate with any freezes on construction here, and they haven’t. So the local Jewish authorities are beginning the long awaited overthrow of the colonial authority exercised over us by the scum in Tel Aviv. That is a welcome development. In an even more important development, a man named Yosef Ezra, who was born in Hevron before the War of Independence and who is the heir of the last Jewish family to have lived in Hevron before being forced to leave in November 1947 by the British, has announced that he will give up his Israeli citizenship over the issue of the property he owns in Hevron. After many many court decisions in his favor over the last 40 odd years, the government of Israel has refused to restore to him the property his family was forced to abandon to Arabs in 1947. His attitude is simply that if the government of Israel cannot live up to its obligations to its citizens, he needn’t be a citizen here.

    He has just devalued the sovereignty of the State more than any raving idiots at the UN could with their bigoted resolutions, more than any mad-assed Arab a-holes screaming “Jews to the gas!”, and more than all the ill considered piles of manure offered as comments here – like comments 10, 11, 12, & 20 (warning – these numbers may change soon).

    The ditching of the bums in J-lem is beginning. Let’s see if Netanyahu-Barak comedy team of traitors (and their American string holders) let moss grow fat on a rolling stone or not.

  • zingzing

    this situation is just saturated in irony.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    This Soldier’s Mother reflects my views as well. If you remember, I did not vote for this idiot, Netanyahu. I voted for the National Union, for Ya’acov Katz. I voted my conscience, and I have been well rewarded. All those “smart voters” who were doing the “practical thing” by voting for the Likud have all been betrayed by a “made in America” gutless coward and traitor.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Apparently, the right wingers in the Likud, the ones who should be in power in Israel, are calling it as it is. The Obama regime is anti-Semitic, they say. And Netanyahu, the “made in America” cowardly traitor, is forced to look stupider by the day defending shit like Obama.

    I don’t think the Likud activists will get far until they have resolved firmly to rid this nation of traitors like Netanyahu. But in the meantime, the Barak half of the Netanyahu regime is setting up the inevitable confrontations needed to rip its own legitimacy away so that we can finally get a Jewish government here in Israel.

  • Irene Wagner

    Zedd, I saw you defend the Bible against someone who was giving it the back of his hand on another thread. Don’t forget, though, WHICH people it was through whom God gave you that Bible: the Jews. And through WHICH people it was God gave you Jesus: the Jews.

    The Jews were chosen, and the Jews are chosen as the people to whom the Messiah will return one day, maybe one day very soon, splitting the land around the Mount of Olives in two (Zechariah 14:4, Acts 1:11-12), and EVERYONE will know who He is: The Lion of Judah, the Lamb of God. (Some will hate him still, though.)

    I’m not going to defend everything Israel has done, or what it may be planning to do. The Jews throughout history have wounded God’s heart like a whorish wife who is a grief to a husband who cherishes her—and Jews who know their Scriptures will agree. God exiled them to Babylon, and then, because God is faithful, God brought the Jews, joyfully, “like men who dream,” back to Jerusalem, but then, they turned to idols again.

    God spoke no more to them through prophets for hundreds of years after Malachi, and when Jesus showed up, they, for the most part, did not recognize their Messiah. Their sacrifices were no longer miraculously taken up in a flame to heaven, and the Romans utterly destroyed Jerusalem in 70 AD and scattered the Jews among the nations. There have throughout human history been demonic powers (Daniel 10) infuriated by God’s stamp upon the Jews, and they have coordinated persecution of the Jews to such an extent that the continued existence of the race is highlighted for what it is: a miracle.

    Sometimes the Jews deserved what they got; sometimes they didn’t. God is sovereign and he can maneuver over, beneath, around and through man’s free will, responding to every wrong choice ANYONE on the planet makes, to accomplish His ends. He used BABYLON to punish the Jews, and then he turned around and punished BABYLON for coming against them. He used the GENTILES to punish the Jews, and then in the end he will punish and destroy (though not utterly) every Gentile nation who, hoping to bring it to an end, will surround Jerusalem. There have been, since 1948, Jews relocating every year to modern Israel, and some of its former residents have been relocated to refugee camps. Chief Joseph was more actively involved in peace-making and humanitarianism than I’m afraid I’ll ever be, yet I “own” a slice of the land that was taken from his people. Can anyone figure God out? If the Jews are in Israel now because God wants them there, it isn’t because the Jews can do no wrong, but because Israel is chosen and God keeps his promises.

    I understand, Zedd, how can any merciful person not react when Ruvy speaks of immolating an entire Iranian city? There are no commonly recognized prophets (recognized by all Jews, the Reformed, Orthodox, Kaballah) of Joshua’s stature in modern Israel who have called for such a thing. Tehran is not an irredeemably wicked place like the cities Joshua was called upon to destroy–we know there are people there who struggle against an oppressive government.

    Ruvy’s too wrong about Iran for you, Zedd, to be wasting time arguing with him over things he’s right about.

    And I’ll leave now, before I say something silly and inappropriate.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, whilst your incomplete legal training gives you the illusion that you can think logically and analytically, it is no more than an illusion.

    It doesn’t matter if there wasn’t a country called Palestine, there is obviously going to be one and the sooner you and your ilk get over your god delusion and try to adapt to the realities, the better for you and the Palestinians.

    Irene, thanks for once again demonstrating how important it is that religion is kept out of important subjects like politics.

    It is far too late for you to leave before you say something “silly and inappropriate”, you crossed that bridge long before you ever showed up at Blogcritics, but it isn’t too late for you to wise up and develop some humility and respect for reality and the truth, rather than the arrogant faithism you and people like Ruvy prefer…

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Irene,

    Sorry but I don’t buy the idea of “Chosen People” and all the implications – whatever the historical, not biblical, facts. If there is a God, he is no respecter of persons, nationalities or ethnic backgrounds. So what if the historical Jesus was a Jew. The New Testament as good as put to rest the old idea of a Covenant in that all have equal access to God. The very idea of “the Chosen People,” and I’m not trying to undermine your beliefs, had its roots in particular historical situation – namely the Jewish enslavement when in Egypt – and as such, it has been functional for the times. But it grew into the worst kind of arrogance which it doesn’t do anyone, especially the Jews, any good. It’s become their greatest stumbling block.

    So forgive me, but I cannot subscribe to that idea – not then and certainly not now. It only provides more justification for religious fanaticism, and for that reason alone it must be scrapped.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [Bob Lloyd has wasted much of his time to whinney out the Arab bullshit line so popular in Europe about that “shitty little country” they hate so much there, Israel.

    Most of what he says is not worth refuting, as it is just a bunch of bullshit. Only the hasbará anal types, who think that we have to justify ourselves to you goyim, will waste time refuting them. The truth is that it is what we do, and not what you think, that counts.]

    Wow! So much venom and aggression! It’s already very well spouting the usual Zionist stuff but if you want anyone to take it seriously Ruvy, you’ll need to consider how the rest of the world sees Israel’s actions.

    No-one, so far as I know, has called it a “shitty little country”, nor expressed any hatred. You clearly prefer to cast people in that light when their view differs from yours.

    But you are right. It’s how you act that counts. And Israel acts very very aggressively to all its neighbours, and it’s not fear that motivates it, but land-grabbing based on religious beliefs.

    When you dismiss UN resolutions by not considering them, you only undermine your credibility. Plan Dalet was, and is, a programme of ethnic cleansing pursued vigorously by successive Israeli governments. That puts it in the same category as the racist, apartheid regime in South Africa until it fell. Hopefully, the same will happen eventually to Israel.

    That’s emphatically not to suggest that Israel gets wiped out, but that Israelis and particularly their governments, learn that religion-based aggressive land-grabbing is no way to behave in the modern world. Equal rights for Arab citizens of Israel, the right of return for those expelled from their home and land, respect for internationally recognised borders, the rule of law, the respect of democratic institutions, these are not extreme demands at all. They’re the basic conditions for a fair treatment of all Israeli citizens, Jew an Arab.

    Your incredibly intemperate rant betrays a deep-seated hatred which, if generally accepted, will result not just in civil war inside Israel, but probably a major conflagration across the region involving many countries – and Israel would not come out of that well. We can only hope that calmer heads prevail inside Israel.

  • Irene Wagner

    The “internationally recognized borders” though, were set by people who have an irrational, irreligiously based, hatred for Jews. They’d be the folks from the Land of the North, who passed out the Kalishnikovs, and their Neoconservative counterparts who, not to be outdone in the Super Power race, vouchsafed AK-s and military training to whatever desperate group they could manipulate to get leverage in the region. It’s all part of the Doctrine, attributed to Micahel Ledeen which states: “Sometimes the US, every ten years or so, needs to take a crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world it means business.”

    To proclaim that land-grabbing will go away once religious belief goes away is to display a woeful ignorance of modern history, or more likely, a convenient forgetting of large segments of it.

  • zingzing

    irene–“land-grabbing?” LAND-GRABBING?! i’m drowning in the irony over here. seriously, throw me a rope to sanity.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    And through WHICH people it was God gave you Jesus: the Jews.

    One thing is missing here which speaks volumes to how Judeo-Christians pick and choose which faiths to validate. Let us not forget that Islam is also an offshoot from the JEWS. All three major faiths have their roots in Abraham. Leave out jihads. Leave out crusades. Yes, even leave out the Holocaust. There are commonalities in all three faiths and it is in those commonalities that some kind of peace could be forged. The people of the Middle East deserve respect and an opportunity to work out their differences among themselves without the interference of the so-called Western world.

    We here in the United States have plenty of our own problems right now. We don’t need to be sticking our noses into the domestic policies of the nations of the Holy Land. Among the motivations of those who came to the shores of America, was the guarantee that they would be free to practice their faiths without the interference or dominion of secular government. Yet, here we are two hundred plus years later and the American society is fragmented upon religious ideological lines.

    …I’m not going to defend everything Israel has done, or what it may be planning to do. The Jews throughout history have wounded God’s heart like a whorish wife who is a grief to a husband who cherishes her—and Jews who know their Scriptures will agree…

    The Jews do not have the franchise on “wounding God’s heart”. Christians and Muslims have done their share of violating the primal directive which is the glue that binds all of humanity. I have difficult time believing that the God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (PBUH) is this merciless, vengeful being who would just as soon exterminate than investigate.

    Irene, I’m not good enough to be a Messenger of God. But I will leave you with this. God is alive and well. Regardless of one’s personal beliefs, we all share this incredible ball of rock and water. We’ve been bestowed with an incredible gift, rich with bounty and promise. No human being should be denied that joy. There can be consistency between science and dogma. There can be co-existence among faiths. There can even be reconciliation of Conservative and Liberal. We need to talk, not shout. We need to respond in kind not in missiles and oppression.

    Osama bin Laden maintains a hold on the Islamic world because he continues to propagate this notion that Christian and Jew infidels are the scourge of Islam. All of that which has passed is that – in the past. Rather than worry about our physical evolution, we need an emotional evolution where humans rise from that which was into that which is.

    I’ve just finished watching one of my favorite movies of all time – August Rush. It’s a sappy movie which leaves me in tears at its’ end — even after watching it a hundred times. The message of the movie is sappy; most cynics would laugh it off — but in its simplicity, it speaks a truth which we seem to be unable to comprehend:
    The music is all around us, all you have to do is listen.

    Indeed, that is all we have to do.

  • zingzing

    “I’ve just finished watching one of my favorite movies of all time – August Rush.”

    oh my god. that is just about THE worst movie i have ever seen.

    “The message of the movie is sappy; most cynics would laugh it off”

    DAMN YOU!

    seriously, that movie needs to be taken out back, shot, dismembered and scattered in different locations so that it can never find its way back together. thing is a curse.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Oh, zing, where’s your compassion forget thy sting? I didn’t say it was an epic. And that does not take away from the film’s core theme which has been completely lost upon you.

    And now I will return to my regularly scheduled programming and play another movie in the background whilst I work. I’m certain, zing, you will find this as equally cursed — Bongwater.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    DANIEL BERNARD, the French ambassador to Britain, recently uttered an ugly anti-Semitic remark at a party hosted by newspaper publisher Conrad Black. He called Israel a “shitty little country” and then asked, “Why should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people?”

    This article from early 2002 is where the that statement comes from, in case anybody wants to argue over it. Frogs generally are Jew-haters. They proved it at the Dreyfus trial in 1894, they proved it again during WWII, and they have been proving it continually since 1967.

    They are almost as bad as the British ruling establishment.

    Now that this point is settled. I’ll move on.

    While I honestly appreciate support from foreigners, in the end, what foreigners think is irrelevant. What we do is what matters. For this reason I have not wasted my time refuting Bob Lloyd’s false accusations. I concentrate my attention on two things.

    1. The way the United States and the EU continually conspire to weaken Israel so that an Arab invading force can administer the final coup de grâce so that the hands of the Americans and the Europeans will remain “clean” of genocide.

    2. The way Israeli bought-off traitors cooperate in this effort like the judenrat the Nazis installed over Jewish ghettos they set up in Warszawa, Kovno and Lodz.

    Let’s clear up the issues regarding Tehran and the need to stop their nuclear weapons development. At least four years ago, Israeli planes should have attacked Iranian efforts to develop nuclear weapons. That Israeli leaders bowed to Washington and did not do what was necessary then, has resulted in a situation where the leadership of Iran must be totally destroyed – even if it takes destroying Tehran and Qom to do it – in order to prevent Persian nuclear blackmail on America, Europe and Israel.
    Murdering off millions of people to protect one’s own survival stinks as a solution. But if it comes down to be the only effective solution, then this is the solution that must be pursued. Because it is an extreme solution and one with an awful element of finality to it (with respect to those who live Tehran at least), if it is to be pursued at all, it should be held off to very last possible moment. If the Persian people can get rid of the Shi’a terror state that rules them by themselves, then such a solution should not be pursued. But it should always be on the table as long as Persia is ruled by a government sworn to the destruction of Israel.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    Yet more racist drivel…

  • zingzing

    silas: “And that does not take away from the film’s core theme which has been completely lost upon you.”

    nah, i got the idea… it’s kinda shoved in your face with all the subtlety of a chunk of elephant poop.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “The way the United States and the EU continually conspire to weaken Israel so that an Arab invading force can administer the final coup de grâce so that the hands of the Americans and the Europeans will remain “clean” of genocide.”

    ha. that’s why we’re fighting wars against your enemies. you are so paranoid, you see enemies in your bank (of daddy), your shield and your armory.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    ha. that’s why we’re fighting wars against your enemies….

    Bullshit! If you were fighting any wars for us, the Persian nuclear facilities would be powder now, the Gaza Strip would be free of Arab terrorists, my neighbors would not worry about being shot at by Arabs as they drive along Hwy 60, there would be no hatred preached from the mosques all over the Arab world.

    Do you seriously think that wasting your money in the Tigris and the Euphrates is fighting OUR war? Do you seriously think sending your soldiers to kill fellow Children of Israel in Afghanistan is fighting OUR war?

    Talk about delusions!

    Don’t pat yourself on the back zing – especially for a war where YOU are not firing the rifle. If you Americans are fighting for anyone, you are fighting for the interests of American bankers and oilmen. You are damned imperialists and your imperialism stinks!

    Get your fucking soldiers out of my neighborhood, zing. Get your fucking money out of my politicians. Get your damned interfering bullies out of my region, zing. We don’t need you. We don’t want you.

    YANKEE GO HOME! AND STAY THE FUCK HOME! Go stuff our faces with shrimp and pigs – it’s all you guys re good for.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    And once again Ruvy demonstrates the political and emotional maturity and wisdom we expect from him.

    C’mon Ruvy, admit it, you’re actually working for bin Laden and seeking the destruction of Israel. Nothing else can explain the colossal stupidity of your delusion that Israel could stand alone.

  • Irene Wagner

    A group of representatives of the British and American Empires, drowning in our own irony, trying to decide which party in the Middle East has grabbed the most land! Here’s the rope to sanity you were asking about ZingZing. It may be awhile before nations are pulled to shore with it, but there’s a buoy on the end that might keep somebody from going under.

    Ruvy, I’m glad you still see the inhabitants of Tehran as human beings, and are willing to hold off on their complete destruction “until the least possible moment.” Scripture seems to say that the Redemption of Israel (and the world) by the Messiah is going to be a very “at the last minute” kind of event, though, disaster being very narrowly averted, probably many times, before he settles matters once and for all. There may be many more temptations, and not just for Israel, to hit “The Genocide Button.”

    This peace on earth project is taking a long time, and I wish he’d just come back already. I’m with Silas, though, and I’m guessing that Ruvy, Roger, Zedd, ZingZing, perhaps even Christopher Rose and Bob Lloyd, would say the same thing: Peace is valuable and rare. None of us has to wait for anybody else to “change the errors of his ways” before we ourselves make changes that make the world more peaceful.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Chris,

    We stood alone in 1948; we stood alone in 1967 we stood alone in 1969-70; we stood alone in 1973; we stood alone rescuing our hostages from Entebbe; we stood alone in Lebanon; we still stand alone facing down all the fucking terrorists in the Arab world – and their enablers – the Brits, Americans, French, Germans, Finns, and Russians.

    We stand alone – a People set apart. In the end, we will put our faith in G-d and not in pernicious and traitorous scum like Americans and Brits. And when that day comes, you will be Judged. And the Living G-d of Israel will take His vengeance upon you for the evil you have done to us.

    That day is coming – as surely as I live and breathe. That day will be the Redemption of my People. Then I will no longer write articles for Blogcritics; Blogcritics will have ceased to exist – as will many of you.

  • zingzing

    ruvy, while i’ll admit that i don’t really believe that iraq is all that much about israel, other than maybe the most tenuous of threads, we were attacked by terrorists who now (maybe) reside and were (probably) funded by the taliban in afghanistan because (in part,) we defend you. they know they have to go through us to get to you. don’t pretend that isn’t fact. what do you think their aim was in attacking us?

    “Go stuff our faces with shrimp and pigs”

    no, thank you. i’ll stuff mine with some delicious pork, but i’m no fan of shrimp (although other shellfish are delicious… ohhhh… oysters…), nor do i like the idea of force-feeding other people. seems kind of strange.

    “Don’t pat yourself on the back zing – especially for a war where YOU are not firing the rifle.”

    best be packing your boys off as soon as they turn 18 if you want to make that statement. or you could get some eye surgery, lose a bit of weight, leave your wife, kill your sons, go back in time 25 years and do it yourself.

    “We don’t need you. We don’t want you.”

    yeah, you do need us. doesn’t matter what you want. you kicked a lion out of its den (with our help, admittedly,) and now you couldn’t handle it if you tried.

    “You are damned imperialists and your imperialism stinks!”

    don’t talk to me about imperialism. you act as if i like it. but also, don’t talk to me about imperialism when this article is about expansion into what is, rightfully or not, another person’s territory. it kinda reeks of irony.

    and do try to calm down. you act like a child.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    “Vengeance is mine, says the Lord.”

    So it would seem, Irene, that’s it’s for humans to seek and pave the way for peace.

  • zingzing

    ruvy: “we still stand alone facing down all the fucking terrorists in the Arab world – and their enablers – the Brits, Americans, French, Germans, Finns, and Russians.”

    leave the finns out of it. what did they ever do?

    “And when that day comes, you will be Judged.”

    so will you, ruvy. remember that. don’t take glee in the harsh judgment you foresee for us. that don’t sit well. also, you tend to lump people together by race or nationality. that’s not the best way to judge people. they have words for that.

    “We stand alone – a People set apart.”

    no, you don’t. that should be pretty damn obvious to you right now.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It’s not even the military or financial aid that matters all that much. The very presence of the West, and the US, is a deterrent, just as presence of police is a deterrent to crime.
    A kind of subtle point, no doubt lost on the simple minds.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    But it is a People set apart – by the condition of self-perpetuating and self-inflicting victimhood.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    leave the finns out of it. what did they ever do?

    This is what they did. And apparently, the bastards are still at it.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Don’t forget the Poles and the Ukrainians. All are Jew-haters.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Roger, the west deters nothing. If it did, Muslim majors who have fallen under Wahhabi influence would not be killing 13-14 people at a clip at your military bases, nor would cops get killed by Muslim shooters – IN THE UNITED STATES, nor would you piece of shit “president” bow to a piece of shit Arab “king”, nor would I have to ride a bullet proof bus to and from Ariel or Jerusalem. The west is worth absolutely nothing.

    Maybe cowering yellow-belly traitors like Netanyahu or Barak think you have value. Only a coward would think you have any value at all. Those of us who are not cowards, and who have lived in America and who know how far you have fallen, know your valuelessness. Don’t pat yourself on the back, Roger. Any Polish peasant knows that America’s word is worth shit. Actually less than shit – shit at least fertilizes crops.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Roger,

    You do remember that it was YOUR country that most recently screwed over Poland, I hope? YOUR gutless “president”? You do remember this fundamental point, don’t you?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’m glad we don’t have to test this proposition. I’m not ready for Armageddon just yet.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Let’s hear it for those astute students of Gandhi, the South Syrian Arabs. It seems the bastards are planning a of Judea and Samaria. According to the news-flash, live arms fire will not be used. But this means that every other weapon will be.

    You gotta love these “peace partners”. Hell, if they come to “beseige” Ma’ale Levona, I hope a bunch of my neighbors take out their M16’s and Uzis, put them all on automatic, and mow the fuckers down. That will be the end of their “siege”. Then finally we’ll be able to go to war against the scum and kill the ones who are out to kill us.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Personally, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad idea to have a Russian sphere of influence as well. To my thinking, it makes for a safer world. So no, I don’t think the Eastern European bloc should be part of NATO – not until the world is ready for final consolidation.

    I did post a similar response on Noel’s thread.

  • zingzing

    oh, ruvy. finland gave 50k euro to an organization trying to see if israel was following the “road map to peace” or whatever it was. the info was given freely to several other countries backing peace in your region, and to israel itself, but somehow, the info gathered ended up in the hands of the plo. do you think finland sold it to the plo? no, you don’t. i’d say there’s a bigger chance that that info got out from israel itself. if there’s anyone who could possibly benefit, it’s people like you, who have no desire for peace in the region. (or people who like to keep the area destabilized… which i don’t think the finns have much interest in.)

    my family is finnish. if you look into the history of jews in finland, you’ll note that they were given full rights as soon as finland was an independent country. you’ll also note that, even while finland was on the side of the nazis during ww2 (and that only because the finnish were in the middle of fighting russia during the winter war), finnish jews escaped persecution. some finnish jews even fought for the nazis… which is unthinkably strange. hopefully, they were very confused.

    i think you’ll find that in almost every case, the finns have nothing but good intentions towards everyone, except russia.

    you color a nation as “bastards” because they gave 50k to an organization trying to find peaceful resolution in your region, or at least so they thought. i have no doubt that finland had nothing but peace on their minds. i’m not saying you have anything to be grateful for towards finland, but you have no reason to hate them either. but it seems like you hate everyone that doesn’t think the same way you do, including your fellow jews. and that’s why you hate so much. ugh.

  • zingzing

    “Then finally we’ll be able to go to war against the scum and kill the ones who are out to kill us.”

    yay! blood! ruvy happy! make big bonfire of limbs and torsos and get naked and bathe in the blood!

    really, is that kosher?

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    You do remember that it was YOUR country that most recently screwed over Poland, I hope?
    Marsz, marsz, Dombrowski
    Z ziemi wloskiej do Polski!

    …The way Israeli bought-off traitors cooperate in this effort like the judenrat the Nazis installed over Jewish ghettos they set up in Warszawa, …
    The ghetto in Warszawa which was owned predominantly by my family until the Nazis came in and exterminated them for not cooperating in exposing Jews. Those are the people I mourn because the horrors of what happened to Jews in the Holocaust have shadowed the sacrifices made by Catholics, Protestants and even (God forbid) homosexuals.

    nah, i got the idea… it’s kinda shoved in your face with all the subtlety of a chunk of elephant poop.
    Zing? Are you referring to the elephant poop shoved in my face by Karl Rove in 2000 which caused me to defect from the GOP?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Ahhh, so we hit a sore spot with zing – a regular zinger.

    I thought you were American, zing. Now you are wrapping yourself in Sibelius and the blue and white cross, and now we see where some of that rebelliousness of yours is – sisu.

    I also know Finnish history – my neighbors in Brooklyn were Finns. And the Finns were a damned decent bunch of people (well a little too soused for me, but that’s not at issue here). Then came the Arab oil boycott and the Finns along with most or Europe, just lost their spine. Now their press is damned anti-Israel all the time, and they are willing to engage in espionage against our country. Oh, the Nokia phones are nice, but with the way they are willing to betray us to our enemies, I’ll stick to Motorola phones – preferably ones made in Israel.

  • zingzing

    “I thought you were American, zing.”

    i am, of course, american. but my heritage is, more than anything else, finnish.

    “Now you are wrapping yourself in Sibelius and the blue and white cross, and now we see where some of that rebelliousness of yours is – sisu.”

    sibelius? fonal! weird ass music. and i might just be wearing my sisu shirt right now.

    “I also know Finnish history – my neighbors in Brooklyn were Finns. And the Finns were a damned decent bunch of people (well a little too soused for me, but that’s not at issue here).”

    the finns still are a damned decent bunch of people. and they’re still drunks. but good drunks.

    “the way they are willing to betray us to our enemies”

    oh, bah. they weren’t trying to betray you to your enemies. and you know it.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Let’s see Ruvy had lumped all Fins together, all Europeans together, and I’m wondering what gives him the right to speak as a lone voice for Israel?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I’m wondering what gives him the right to speak as a lone voice for Israel?

    I don’t need a “right” to speak, Jet. I live here, taking the risks that Israelis take in living here, I’m Jewish, I know what I’m talking about (in spite of the ravings of comment editors living on the Isle of Man), and most important of all, I actually open my mouth, and am not afraid to shout down the rest of you.

    For those reasons, I am the voice for Israel on this site. Let someone else with all the above qualifications speak up here, and he too will be a voice for Israel on this site.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    sibelius? fonal! weird ass music.

    The music teacher at my junior high school insisted on using the music from “Finlandia” for the high school’s anthem. That, and the fact that the suprintendants of the building we lived in in Midwood were Finns – the husband came from the Åland Islands and his wife came from a farm in eastern Finland – land seized by the Soviets in 1940 (the couple had arrived in the States in 1929) – and this fact inspired me to read in detail on Finnish history.

    The husband would go fishing in Brighton Bay at 04:00 in the morning, come back with his catch, do his chores around the building, and then sit with his pipe in his mouth, reading his Swedish newspaper, while his wife would putter about, talking to her husband in Finnish, and struggling with her English in talking to the rest of us in the building. Finnish lacks a number of sounds common to English (like “sh” and “ch”) and listening to Saima struggle with words like “church” or “shopping” was truly an exercise in discipline in not laughing at a foreigner chop up English. But when half of your family, and a good proportion of your friends, talk with foreign accents and mangle your native tongue regularly, you learn such things. I appreciate that now today – when I mangle up Hebrew (my ancestral but not native language) and don’t get laughed at either.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    ….land Islands – supposed to be Aland Islands – spelled with a ring over the “A” – but this media will not pick up the ring and knocks out the letter altogether.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    This article by Joel Bainerman, an economist and publisher, gives a comprehensive and clear-eyed view of American aid to Israel.

    From the article: There’s another problem too. Loan guarantees, like aid, chip away at Israel’s sovereignty. “The State Department is not above broadly hinting to Israel that, `If you don’t behave, economic aid might be cancelled,'” Sohar says. Worse, according to a confidential report leaked in May 1993 by disgruntled Finance Ministry officials, Israel agreed, as a condition to receive the loan guarantees, that it would report all expenditures in the Occupied Territories to Washington, not just those connected to U.S. funding. This includes every public shekel spent on infrastructure, such as water, sewage, schools, and roads. It also includes reporting on private investment in homes and businesses. Opposition leaders responded to the report by claiming that Rabin’s concessions had effectively turned Israel into a banana republic.

    DIASPORA JEWISH AID

    While giving money to Israel is perhaps the most central aspect of Jewish life in America, sensitivities around this question mean that public discussion of the donations’ efficacy rarely takes place. This discussion, however, is long overdue. Do unilateral transfers of money from diaspora Jews really help the Israeli economy? What would happen to the Israeli economy if world Jewry stopped sending these funds to Israel?

    United Jewish Appeal/Jewish Agency. American Jews give about $550 million a year to the United Jewish Appeal (UJA), which then turns the money over to the Jewish Agency in Israel. At that point, diaspora Jews lose virtually all say over how their money is spent. Donors tend to think of their UJA donations as charity, but that’s not the case. Israel is not a poor country and not in need of charity. Per capita income now reaches $16,000, making Israelis only slightly less prosperous than the average Western European. With a gross domestic product at $65 billion, the country could–if managed properly–pay all its bills, even its high defense tab, without foreign donations. Nor does the UJA money help Israel’s poor. Israel has an extensive welfare program that provides adequately for its poor (a subject rarely discussed in fundraising circles for fear of jeopardizing the whole effort), and the Jewish Agency gives out none of its funds as welfare. Rather, it uses these to support educational programs, new settlements, religious institutions, and the absorption of new immigrants.

    I concur with Joel. At this point, private Jewish aid is more an issue of who you give to, with Israelis viewing American Jews as this cash cow to be milked for guilt or other reasons. So, private organizations run to America and “shake the pishkeh” figuring to get at least money to cover double the air-fare. But when Bernie Madoff made off with a lot of that extra milk – all the teats in America give off is spoiled fat and a bad attitude.

    When Bainerman wrote this article in the mid-1990’s nobody imagined that the dollar would be on the brink of collapse. But it is. So the stranglehold of American “aid” can be forgotten about – that “aid” is about to disappear into the hungry pockets of the Chinese.

    So the real question is: “when will the American puppets running Israel wake up to that fact and turn down American aid – and its concomitant interference?”

    Unfortunately, the answer to my question lies within its body. Puppets do not think independently. That’s why they must be overthrown – by any means possible.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [To proclaim that land-grabbing will go away once religious belief goes away is to display a woeful ignorance of modern history, or more likely, a convenient forgetting of large segments of it.]

    Irene, I didn’t say or imply that – it would be naive to think that the irridentist tendency over Eretz-Israel, total occupation of lands mentioned in some holy book, was the sole motivation.

    Religion is used to justify the occupation of Palestinian land in an effort to squeeze out the arab population, it’s the glue that holds the racist hatred together. Land-grab is an economic priority for Israel if it is to expand as an economy. Israeli businesses know that only too well.

    Ruvy’s racism is just appalling though and for him to find any justification at all, he has to ignore the most glaring of historical facts, and dismiss political realities. All he has is his ranting prejudice and if that sort of view prevails in Israel, it will become even more of a rogue state than it already is. And even the US administration will have to reassess the level of support it gets, because the political embarrassment of shoring up such overt racism will become internationally untenable. It will then contemplate regime change possibly through proxy states of a more reasonable political stance, but more likely by backing factions within Israel.

    The CIA has experience of doing just that sort of thing in South America. Maybe this time, it would be justified.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    The One State Solution
    by Joel Bainerman
    . In this article from August of this year, Mr. Bainerman recommends that Israel annex Judea and Samaria, making the resident Arabs citizens.

    From the article:

    The One State Solution is a Win-Win for Everyone

    The West Bankers will no longer be in regional conflict with Israel. They will be able to pursue their full economic rights in the Israeli national economy – equal to any other Israeli citizen. This includes a right to work in any job, anywhere in Israel, and the right to own assets and property. As citizens, they would have the right to sue the Israeli government in a civil court for what they claim was the theft of their land or other property.

    The Israeli government would take over the task and responsibility for rehabilitating the approximately 175,000 Arabs who live in refugee camps today on the West Bank. It would also upgrade the entire social, economic, educational, health and public infrastructure in the West Bank. As the economy grows, a local, municipal tax system will be introduced, so that the regional councils have the money to maintain the infrastructure and provide essential government services.

    Joel Bainerman is an economist and a publisher who specializes in economics. His work focuses on economics and can be viewed here. His viewpoints are not dissimilar to mine, and I have learned a great deal from him.

    Considering the imperialist and interventionist attitude of Bob Lloyd, let’s look at how his country, the United Kingdom is responsible for more than 85 years of conflict, death and murder in Mandate Palestine and the successor states to it.

    From the article:
    Probably one of the most important books for both Jews and Arabs to read is called “The Rape of Palestine,” by William Ziff, first published in 1938 by Argus Books in the US. The cover says nothing about who William Ziff is.

    The book documents the difference between the overall pro-Jewish sentiments of the British political elite who saw a strong Jewish presence in Palestine as being good for the British empire, and the group of high level anti-Jewish British officials who believed that the Jews would become so powerful (if Britain let them) that they would no longer have to accede to British demands.

    The latter group was entirely right. A strong Jewish presence in Palestine meant Jewish national independence which wouldn’t serve the British masters the way the Arab puppets did. Arab tribal leaders were corruptible and this was the only way those running Britain’s colonial policies could control them. They realized that controlling the Jews was not going to be so as easy. So they placed obstacle after obstacle before any attempts to settle large numbers of Jews in Palestine. The official reason for restricting Jewish immigration was that the “economic capacity of the land” could not support more than a million people. This was a lie, but few challenged the British when they proclaimed it in their various “government commissions.”

    The book also documents how one-sided the British were in doling out public funds. As the Jews in Palestine increased in number the economy boomed and in l935, the Yishuv, even though only comprising one-third of the residents, were paying 75% of the taxes to the British occupiers. Yet little of that money found its way back into roads or schools serving Jewish towns. Ziff must have gone through nearly every British government archive to document his claims that had the British left Palestine in the late 20’s or early 30’s, the Jews would have had a state before l948 and which would possibly have been established around (and thriving) before Hitler came to power thus saving the bulk of European Jewry. While no historian has ever blamed the British for the destruction of European Jewry, Ziff’s book documents that claim.

    Now let’s hand the challenge to Bob Lloyd, from another article by my colleague, Mr. Bainerman.

    People can think anything they want and they should be able to discuss these views in a private setting. This breaks no laws of liable nor does it promote hatred in public. However what they should not be allowed to do is to publicly express hatred towards another people or country and use a university or other public institutions and airwaves as arenas to spread hatred against Israel.

    Unlike many in Israel or the Diaspora Jewish community, I am ready to admit that Israel is committing war crimes and mass genocide against the Palestinians. I just want someone to show me the proof instead of giving me his or her opinions.
    For all those anti-Israel critics on the Internet and on college campuses I say, either put up or shut up. If there is proof of Israel’s long-time plan to suppress Palestinian nationalism and keep them from returning to lands they once left, or of a conspiracy to commit war crimes against the Palestinians, then show it to us.

    If Israel is “massacring the Palestinians”, then show us the tens of thousands of corpses as proof. If you don’t have anything of substance to back up your claim, then shop making these inflammatory accusations in public or risk civil suits in the courts.

    This is a public forum, Mr. Lloyd. Put up or shut up. You have defamed me – called me a racist on a public forum; you have alleged that my nation commits genocide, and is an apartheid state, stating, “Plan Dalet was, and is, a programme of ethnic cleansing pursued vigorously by successive Israeli governments. That puts it in the same category as the racist, apartheid regime in South Africa until it fell. Hopefully, the same will happen eventually to Israel.”

    In addition, you have stated, “The Israeli state has had a policy of terrorising the arab population in order to make it so difficult for them to remain, that they would be forced off the land. Deliberately breaking the economy of arab areas, restricting water and services, starving the population, systematically harrassing them, walling them in, all measures designed to force the Palestinians from their homes. This is in violation of all the international tenets of human rights but Israel has so far continued with impunity because of US support.”

    Put up or shut up.

    I am absolutely sick and tired of liars from foreign lands defaming my people, my country, and me.

    Put up or shut up, Mr. Lloyd.

  • Bernie Wylde

    “You have defamed me – called me a racist on a public forum;” ….no Ruvy, you’ve PROVED that you are racist – all by yourself.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Moving on from Mr. Lloyd’s defamatory statements, I got this surprising article from the Wall Street Journal about how the Arab world has stopped applauding for Obama. Mind you, this writer is no friend of Israel.

    I’ve asserted about Obama that kissing ass just gets you shit on your lips and sand in your face, and this article is proof of the truth of my assertions.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Proving that he is indeed the puppet of the Americans, the “made in America” prime minister, Netanyahu keeps evincing a building freeze in Jerusalem. All this while illegal Arab building continues all over the country.

    But in Judea & Samaria, the revolt against illegal government grows as community leaders ban government officials from their communities.

  • doug m

    When did Archie Bunker move to Israel? It would be funny if it wasn’t tragic

  • Irene Wagner

    Bob Lloyd, I’m afraid you’re right. Instead of fewer outsiders fomenting discord in Israel, there will be more sent in.

    Realpolitik manipulations can “enforce peace”–that odd oxymoron–but there won’t be any real peace until the people in the two warring groups stop hating each other. People in war zones talk the way Ruvy does. I’m not sure how many of us who criticize him would be speaking any more charitably about “the enemy” under similar conditions. The memory of the perceived and real horrors committed by either side against the other cannot be erased, and besides that you have a generation having grown up pouring out sweat building up kibutz and communities that they’re being thrown out of, and you have a generation who has grown up in the deprivations of a refugee camp.

    How can real peace be achieved by an outsider forcing these two sides to make concessions to one another? Peace happens — who would have thought we’d ever see the beginning of the slow process of rebuilding in Northern Ireland–when two sides, possibly helped by outside parties who are known to have no agenda other than an altruistic desire for peace, come to see one another as human beings again, and then gradually, neighborhood by neighborhood, perhaps, they willingly make those concessions to one another.

    I’ll keep dreaming my dreams, and you and Roger can keep dreaming yours. Maybe we’ll all get what we want.

  • Irene Wagner

    And to answer your other question, Roger, “yes.”
    That is the way I understand God manifests his love in the world today–through other people, to other people. Too many of us who have a religion are focused I think, on being “against” things, instead of maybe just being “pro-people.” We tend to be preoccupied with judging, forgetting that God will do that one day, and with more fairness and merciful understanding of the secrets of the human heart than any of us have.

    And yes Roger, larger scale order-keeping operations (e.g. police) are discussed in the Bible, and a Christian is commanded to do what he can not to promote that peace and order–unless the “peace” that is being maintained goes against his conscience. (We worry too much about OTHER people going against our consciences, I’ll admit that!) BUT, you probably don’t believe THOSE parts of the Bible either, so discussing them further is probably going to be as fruitful as a big plate of ….. time for me to go. Have a great day.

  • Irene Wagner

    Say hi to Cindy to me, too Roger, if you see her.

  • Irene Wagner

    TO promote, not “not to promote”… in para 2 of 72

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    71

    I think the idea that there are two warring nations is a propaganda tactic. There is a captive civilian population that is being subjugated by a powerful state.

    When one side has rocks and the other side has warplanes, calling it a war legitimates Israel. Walled in civilians with no supplies, let alone warring capabilities, had bombs dropped on their heads. The only reason that is not called terrorism is because it is sanctioned by a state.

    It’s a genocidal ethnic cleansing, not a war.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Oh, and hiya, Irene. :-)

  • Irene Wagner

    Hi Cindy. Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here. Though, I’d have thought, and I still think, you’d be all for getting a bunch of Jewish and Arab teenagers together in a safe place to try to understand each other. It’s part of what helped in Northern Ireland, and believe me, the horrors, and most importantly THE PERCEPTIONS of the horrors that each side had suffered at the hands of the other made for just as much rancor. Northern Ireland not being in such an internationally strategic locale, there was a lot less unhelpful interference by outsiders with agendas, of course. OK warrior-medic, I’ll see ya round.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    The Israeli government can try to enforce a building freeze here. It can arrest council heads, confiscate equipment, arrest builders, etc. But ultimately the American goal for its puppets in Jerusalem is expulsion of over a quarter-million Israelis from Judea and Samaria, and the creation of a real apartheid state, one that is Jew-clean and Jew-free (the Nazi-style references are purposeful – they are appropriate to the situation). The IDF cannot do that. A civil war will ensue first. And the further Netanyahu and Barak march along that road to civil war, the closer they are to ensuring their own expulsion from office, de minimis. A removal of the traitors can be peaceful – or it can be bloody. Friends of mine estimate the nature of the Shabak, and their desperation to hold onto power here, to be similar to that of the Securitate of the régime of Nicolae Ceausescu of Romania. That portends a violent civil war.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    When one side has rocks and the other side has warplanes, calling it a war legitimates Israel.

    Cindy, this is just a pack of garbage, used to justify defamation and lies, the same shit that Robert Lloyd posts here as a matter of course. Lets look at reality.

    She told us of a neighbor of ours – let’s call him Barry – who was driving home past Sínjil, the Arab village at very the bottom of Levoná, the hill/mountain where we live. Arabs threw rocks through his windshield, spraying him with shattered glass, and they threw another rock through the back windshield, injuring his wife, Lee. He managed to bring the car to a halt, and then to drive up the hill home – where an ambulance promptly took the two of them to a hospital in Jerusalem. This was similar to rock throwing incidents that had occurred over the last couple of months or so, hundreds of them, at Shiló, Elí, Shuafát, Ma’alé Adumím, and other places as well. But this time, we knew the victims. Had it been me and had I Barry’s pistol, I would have also stopped the car – and fired at the Arab attackers, attempting to kill them if I could. But it wasn’t me.

    A rock throwing incident is just as much an attempt to kill someone as a bomb throwing incident, a rocket launch or any other terrorist attack on innocent civilians. If the State arrogates to itself the right of revenge against these attacks, and uses planes to strafe and kill terrorists, my only problem is that the State prevents me from legitimately defending myself, or from organizing retaliatory attacks on Arab villages here. The rich Arab-Americans who have invested a fortune to build up Turmus Aiye, just a half kilometer from here, need to learn what angry Jews can do.

    But more important than seeking vengeance on a local level, is getting rid of American puppets in the government here, and getting rid of American apparatchiks who dictate to these puppets. The assassination of Lord Moynes comes to mind as an example. In the final analysis, it is the American State Department and the assholes in the European Union who are making war against us in Israel. The Arabs are merely a hammer in the hand of Jew-hating scum in America and Europe – scum whom we must kill so that they cannot make war against us any more. If we cannot kill these scum ourselves, and in many instances we cannot, we need to ask the Aid of the Almighty to do it for us. A good part of the prophecies of Ezekiel, Zechariah and Joel indicate that this Help will be on the way in the near future. The harder your government presses ours to commit treason against its own citizenry, he sooner that Aid will arrive.

    When the Prophecies of Redemption come true for us, you, Robert Lloyd, those foolish enough to agree with you, and the nations you inhabit will be judged. The trouble that is at our doorstep today will be at yours, instead.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [the imperialist and interventionist attitude of Bob Lloyd]

    I am neither. I would prefer that the Zionist irridentists of the Israeli government were overthrown internally by democratic means.

    [The courts, under the rule of the same Hiloní G-d-hating, Torah-hating elite stood aside and washed its hands, and the government perpetrated treason and ethnic cleansing upon its own people. One would have thought that we were Syrian or Iraqi fellahín, the way the government has acted here, that we could be expelled from our homes, have our lives ruined, or even be killed at the will of the régime of traitors in Jerusalem.]

    [The traitors in Jerusalem have sunk to the low sewer of the nastiest Arab tyrants, to the level of the scum and savages who ruin Arabia and Persia. Their goons have sunk with them. They are no better than gutter trash. Bullets are too good for them.]

    [I have a friend in the IDF who can order the body bags for the inspectors and the goons sent with them Not everybody in the IDF is a traitor beholden to the sick fucks in the American and EU regimes.]

    [more than any mad-assed Arab a-holes screaming “Jews to the gas!”, and more than all the ill considered piles of manure offered as comments here]

    [Frogs generally are Jew-haters.]

    [Murdering off millions of people to protect one’s own survival stinks as a solution. But if it comes down to be the only effective solution, then this is the solution that must be pursued.]

    [Go stuff our faces with shrimp and pigs – it’s all you guys re good for.]

    [you piece of shit “president” bow to a piece of shit Arab “king”]

    [I hope a bunch of my neighbors take out their M16’s and Uzis, put them all on automatic, and mow the fuckers down.]

    Well Ruvy, you are clearly upset by being identified as having racist views but just examine the nature of your comments in which you identify racial stereotypes, and abuse people because of their national backgrounds. The above is just a selection. Just the single statement alone “Frogs are generally Jew-haters” is enough to suggest your racist viewpoint.

    If you really don’t have those attitudes, you’ll stop using such abusive and prejudiced phrases. I hope you’re right that you don’t really have those views but your comments certainly strongly reinforce the impression that you are deeply racially prejudiced.

    You claim that I said your nation commits genocide – I emphatically did not. What I said was that it was conducting ethnic cleansing, driving hundreds of thousands of Arabs from their lands. As you well know, this was the basis of Plan Dalet, established in 1948 and supported by the right wing Zionists ever since.

    The details are available in Ilan Pappe’s excellent book which you doubtless despise. For those who don’t know of his work, he holds the Chair of History at the University of Exeter, and until 2007 was a senior lecturer in politics at Haifa University. He committed the unpardonable sin of researching the planned ethnic cleansing of Palestine and published the book The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. Anyone interested in the documented facts surrounding the clearing of Arab towns and villages will find the book enormously informative. Ruvy won’t like it one bit.

    [I am the voice for Israel on this site]
    Self-appointed? Time for a change?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    As I said, Mr. Lloyd: I intend to LIVE. I will not roll over and die for Jew-haters like you who endlessly repeat Arab propaganda and the lies of the el-Husseinis. There is no such an animal as Arab Palestine. There never was. There never will be.

    As for Plan Dalet, I never denied its existence. A nation at war needs to secure its internal borders, and the nation that fails to do so, falls.

    And Plan Dalet was adopted because the Arabs went to war TO VIOLATE A UN RESOLUTION – a war in which every nation on the planet (including yours) either took the side of the Arabs or folded their arms and did nothing.

    We won and losers lose. That’s life – too bad. Had the Arabs agreed in peace to General Assembly Resolution 181 (which was an illegal act in itself, but accepted by the Jewish Agency), there would have been an Arab Filastín and there would have been no war. The Arabs gambled, and they lost. Too bad.

    Since writing his book, the traitor Ilan Pappe has been a useful idiot for the enemies who would kill off his own countrymen. There is not a rope clean enough on which to stretch this bastard’s neck – he would contaminate any rope used with his spiritual filth.

    I am the voice for Israel on this site because I speak up and have no fear of “people” like you.

    In the mean time, you’ve proven nothing. So put up or shut up.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Turning away (again) from the defamatory comments of some posters, we find that indeed, the EU is making war upon our nation.

    This Swedish attempt to “recognize” the “capital” of a fictional entity is obviously more intervention on the part of foreigners in our internal affairs. The Swedes have obviously not learned from the death of Count Bernadotte in 1948. It is evident that foreign imperialists who would intervene in our affairs need another lesson in what can happen to them – even if it makes the puppet régime here uncomfortable.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [Since writing his book, the traitor Ilan Pappe has been a useful idiot for the enemies who would kill off his own countrymen. There is not a rope clean enough on which to stretch this bastard’s neck – he would contaminate any rope used with his spiritual filth.]

    If ever there was a recommendation for people to read Ilan Pappe’s book, that was it. While you’re at it Ruvy, would you like to endorse another one by Nur Masalha which also contains an excellent chapter on Jewish fundamentalism and Greater Israel. It draws on loads of material from the Israel State Archives, the Central Zionist Archives, and the Jabotinsky Institute. I’m sure you could increase its readership by cursing it.

    One interesting section of the book deals with the 1967 plan from one Moshe Dotan. There are extensive quotations from the leading Zionists of the time trying to orchestrate the expulsion of the Arabs, expressing Israeli territorial claims to bits of Syria, Jordan, the Lebanon, etc. Fascinating stuff.

    Anyone who wants to follow up the details in Masahla’s book can look at the extensive list of primary and secondary sources, and newspapers many of which are online in Hebrew, English, French, and Arabic.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Irene,

    No question that “enforced peace” is not quite the same as “real peace.” But my take is – we’re dealing here with belligerent, naughty children who have not reached the maturity of adulthood. So as parents, the immediate and remedial thing to do is to keep both parties in line. Say what you will, but the reign of people like Tito in former Yugoslavia did hold all the ethnic hatred and squabbles in check.

    Granted, it’s not a long term solution, but perhaps it’s the best we can do under the circumstances.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    There are extensive quotations from the leading Zionists of the time trying to orchestrate the expulsion of the Arabs, expressing Israeli territorial claims to bits of Syria, Jordan, the Lebanon, etc. Fascinating stuff.

    The Zionists of the day were trying to annex territory to our land which will belong to us according to Prophecy without annexing the resident Arabs. Men of little faith always try half-measures that fail.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    The tragedy of civil war continues to approach, as Security Minister Ehud Barak orders the call-up of IDF troops for use against Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria

    While Barak continues to stain the honor of a rapidly declining IDF, Arabs have threatened to surround the Jewish villages in Judea and Samaria. All this will be “non-violent” until the IDF chooses to bust Jewish heads, and Arabs, smelling blood, forget their pledges of “non-violence”.

    While I see the necessity for this tragedy to unfold in order to bring about the events that can overturn the evil in Jerusalem, the idea that Jews will have to kill other Jews, which is what civil war will entail, tears at me. It tears at my soul to see the IDF, which was to protect us against the evil of the non-Jew, used as goons to further the evil of the non-Jew instead. The last secular symbols of authority are being torn from us – we will have to turn to G-d and away from the secular symbols of the State, even as treasonous “religious” Jews stab us in the back.

    There were confrontations all over Judea and Samaria today between Israeli “officials” and residents and leaders of the national camp. Supposedly these will be “non-violent” – but the non-violence will end when soldiers are forced to use violence against their own brothers.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [our land which will belong to us according to Prophecy]

    Whatever makes you think you can claim land just because an old religious book told you a supernatural being granted it to you? If someone else came along with the same story but using a different supernatural being you’d refuse to accept their claim… In the real world, you have to reach agreement over issues like land ownership and supernatural beings don’t get a seat at the negotiating table. Or hasn’t anyone mentioned that?

    And claiming to be one of a chosen race also doesn’t cut it in the real world. All it does is provide a basis for narrow-minded prejudice and aggression. The muslim world has a similar claim to fame

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    That’s nice, Bob. Trouble with your little rant is that my old religious book seems to be foretelling the future. That fact trumps all the “logical” and “rational” statements you can put out – and makes them worthless.

    The fun part of all this is that the Qur’an – a not so ancient book that Muslims follow – backs up the Torah’s grant of the Land of Israel to my people.

    We Children of Abraham – Children of Israel and Children of Ishmael – are the “prime parties to the dispute” in this region and interlopers like you – whether under the guise of some Spaniard or some Brit – are unwelcome; as are your points of view, whatever they are.

  • zingzing

    poor ruvy, you can’t keep a guest out after you invite them in. if you don’t want to hear other views, don’t blog your views. simple as that. curiousity will get the better of you.

    as to your qur’an/torah point, those books aren’t legal documents, or even close. and i don’t think you’d want them to be. if you try and legitimize your claims using that, you’re only making us scoff worse. find another angle.

    another point i’d like to make is that you seem to be very unhappy with what the rulers of your nation choose to do. what do you think the people in your enemies’ nations feel?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Oh, by the way, Bob – “supernatural beings” don’t need a seat at the negotiating table. G-d created the seat, the table, anyone sitting at it, the air they breathe and – YOU. So, speak respectfully of the Creator. You’ll be called to account for what you say.

    Have a pleasant evening.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    as to your qur’an/torah point, those books aren’t legal documents, or even close…

    So much for what you know, zing. Both the Torah and the Qur’an are legal documents, as well as being Revelation of G-d’s Will. That is why getting off the computer, not lighting candles for the Sabbath, etc. etc. is LAW – in fact far more significant than any document some mere man can scribble on parchment. Similarly, for a Muslim, five prayers a day facing Makkah, zakát, etc. are Law – and are far more significant than any document some mere man can scribble on a piece of parchment.

    Christians haven’t figured that out and don’t really have a Law (aside from what they steal from us), so they enslave themselves to a civil law – sometimes that is good – but their unwillingness to admit to the Divine Origin of the Basic Law of Mankind, the Laws of Noah, robs them of what little legitimacy they might have.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [Oh, by the way, Bob – “supernatural beings” don’t need a seat at the negotiating table. G-d created the seat, the table, anyone sitting at it, the air they breathe and – YOU. So, speak respectfully of the Creator. You’ll be called to account for what you say.]

    Ruvy, in the real world you have to deal with real people, real countries, real borders, real populations, real claims to land. It really doesn’t matter what you believe about the status of religious books, any more than it matters what others think. The fact is that they are still religious books and their status is not legal, despite your wish that they were.

    Zionism’s claim to territory is based on land associated with a chosen race. But there are plenty of chosen races. The Mormons consider themselves chosen, as do the Rastafarians, and even the Reverand Moon of the Unification Church claims that Korea is the chosen nation. Simply claiming that Zionism is right because you say so isn’t much of an argument. In fact, it’s a non-argument because all other sides can claim the same position.

    So in the end it comes down to “respect my god or he’ll have you!” Again, a pretty feeble position. Which is what you always end up with if you base your realpolitik on religion. It’s prejudice backed with military force.

    You’d better hope there is someone inside Israel who can come up with real political arguments because the religious case is exposed as bankrupt. Zionism as realpolitik just doesn’t get off the starting blocks.

  • zingzing

    ok, ruvy.

  • zingzing

    can you quote me god’s law on israel’s expansion into military-occupied territory actually occupied by others (arabs, because that’s where they live,) for the purpose of relieving the cramping on israel’s economy and housing market?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    You’d better hope there is someone inside Israel who can come up with real political arguments because the religious case is exposed as bankrupt. Zionism as realpolitik just doesn’t get off the starting blocks.

    Let’s get this straight, Bob. The real world is not this comments thread. In your so-called “real” world, the World of Lies and Deception (ha’olám hashéqer that you assume to be real, you deal with political power. Power most generally comes out of the barrel of a gun – and all the bullshit – “laws”, “international law”, “treaties”, “constitutions”, “agreements”, “contracts” etc. – ultimately represents somebody with the power to blow someone else away. Your very own well written article on “forgetting” the Spanish Civil War should teach you that, if nothing else does.

    In the World of Lies and Deception there can only be temporary peace – because at some point, someone always seems to have to rectify his needs or wants by using the barrel of a gun. End of peace.

    Now, it just so happens that someone, an attorney named Howard Grief, looked at the claims of the Jewish people from precisely that point of view – the point of view of power coming out of the barrel of a gun.

    It is a book I recommend to you – knowing that for a man of science, a book written in the form of an extended legal brief will be hard reading. In spite of my own legal training, it was a hard read for me. It is my side of the legal argument, the one you call “real political argument”.

    The book is called The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law [Mazo Publishers].

    This is the product description from Amazon:

    “The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law” offers a comprehensive and systematic legal treatment of Jewish national and political rights to all of the Land of Israel. The author, Howard Grief, is the originator of the thesis that de jure sovereignty over the entire Land of Israel and Palestine was vested in the Jewish People as a result of the San Remo Resolution adopted at the San Remo Peace Conference on April 24, 1920. Yuval Ne’eman, a former Israeli government minister said: “For about 400 years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over all the Balkans, the Middle East and North Africa. The struggle for the liberation of those areas began in the Balkan lands at the beginning of the 19th century and ended in 1913. In the First World War, the job [of liberation] was completed and Turkey was reduced to the Anatolian Peninsula. All of this was contained in the San Remo Agreement of April 1920. The fact that it was precisely at that place and time that Iraq, Syria, Lebanon and the states of the Arabian Peninsula obtained [thanks to the victory of the Principal Allied Powers over the Central Powers] the very same liberation from the Ottoman yoke, strengthens the approach of Grief who presents the proof for the inclusion of Palestine [i.e., the Jewish People] in the list of beneficiaries in regard to the “settlement [or disposition] of the inheritance of the Ottoman Empire.” Dr. Ya’akov Meron, former Adviser on the Law of Arab Countries at the Ministry of Justice, Jerusalem, Israel and Professor of Moslem Law in the Faculties of Law of Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv wrote: “The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law” is a forceful and erudite pleading for the respecting of the letter and spirit of the law, not only Israeli law but also the international law that came into existence in the wake of World War I. This law, now largely forgotten or neglected, is still relevant today in regard to the status and borders of the Land of Israel. The author makes a thorough analysis of the international documents which recognized the rights of the Jewish People to the land of their ancestors, most significantly the San Remo Resolution on Palestine, agreed to by the victorious Allies at the Peace Conference of April 1920.

    Having edited this book (that’s why it was such a hard read), I’ve read it rather thoroughly.

    I suggest you read this book. It is about time you comprehended OUR claim to this country without the bullshit hasbará, wheedling and whining and excuse making so often found on the Jewish side of this argument.

    My own claims to the Land stem from Divine Law, and it is my belief that the other chief party here, the Muslims, have a Divine Law that corresponds to ours, and backs ours up. Further, it is my own contention that only an agreement based on Jews and Muslims clearly understanding how that Divine Law applies to the Land of Israel, to Jews and to Arabs here, resident or otherwise, will bring peace. It will have something to enforce it other than a gun. That is why you are not part of this debate, and why for my purposes and Israeli traitors (Ilan Pappe and company) whom you admire, are only useless fools who betray their own brothers, and who themselves deserve to have their necks stretched.

    But I haven’t argued that claim here. The claim I set forth for foreigners like you is the claim found in “The Legal Foundation and Borders of Israel under International Law”. This is the law of the jungle – the law that comes out of the barrel of a gun – “international law”.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Comment #95 above, is for the sake of those who wish to occupy themselves with the Arab -Israeli conflict – such as it is. That is not my issue here. So far as I am concerned the Arabs and their problems can take a number – they will be served in their turn.

    My issue is the coming civil war here between Jews. I was warned about this 5 years ago in November 2004 by a professor from Ben Gurion University, who warned that the Hiloní bastards who rule the land had it in for us believers in G-d. My blood froze then, but I have seen how Professor Arieh Zaritzky was right and continues to be right. The only thing missing from the civil war are the actual gunshots.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Irene,

    I have a reply, but I am trying to make it shorter.

    Ruvy,

    I am not suggesting that throwing rocks cannot be deadly. I am addressing the fact that a state is subjugating, restricting, and bombing a captive civilian population.

    That is not a war.

  • Irene Wagner

    Ok Cindy, but I think I really am going to turn in for the night now, so I’ll look at it later.
    Roger’s comment in #84 was so “warrior-medic” don’t you think. As soon as I think I have it figured out, Cindy, I see a new angle. Ok night.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy,

    Go re-read comments 95 and 96. From my point of view, The Arabs and their problems can take a number and await their turn. My concern in this article is civil war between Jews. If you want to address the problems of the Arabs, the appropriate forum is this article, Bad News at my Doorstep.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Irene,

    I hope it will be ready soon. I finished it yesterday and every time I try to reduce it, it gets longer. It may take awhile.

    Ruvy,

    Okay. I will read/reread the posts you listed.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    Interesting Ruvy. You must surely know that the very first paragraph of the San Remo agreement said:

    “(a) To accept the terms of the Mandates Article as given below with reference to Palestine, on the understanding that there was inserted in the process-verbal an undertaking by the Mandatory Power that this would not involve the surrender of the rights hitherto enjoyed by the non-Jewish communities in Palestine;”

    And surely, even before the ink was dried, the agreement was a dead letter because France (one of the four signatories with Britain, Italy and Japan) decided to rule Syria unilaterally.

    Nevertheless, within the “boundaries” defined loosely as Palestine in Balfour, there was still the requirement:

    “The Mandatory will be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 8, 1917, by the British Government, and adopted by the other Allied Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.”

    There is no way on earth that anyone can claim that Israel is respecting, or has respected those rights.

    The deceit and sheer dishonesty of the British in promising the land of Palestine to both the Arabs and the Jews is disgraceful of course, and it’s well documented in Tom Segev’s work, but referring back to a legal claim in Balfour and San Remo is a nonsense. International treaties supercede each other, and at best, the latest boundaries for Israel with a working chance of any agreement is the 1967 border.

    As for my article about Spain, you’ve clearly missed the point. Sooner or later Israelis and Palestinians will also be standing around exhumed mass graves, trying to put the past to rest.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Clashes continue today in Judea and Samaria, with the mayor of Beit Aryeh, Avi Naim, arrested.

    According to Arutz Sheva,, there were also clashes at Elon Moreh and Har Bracha.

    In the meantime, a Hebrew University professor has identified Ehud Barak’s self-hatred as a cause for his behavior, behavior where he displays what a bully he is – against Jews. According the Arutz Sheva article, “This is a form or psychological robbery,” he [Prof. Shalom Rosenberg] explained. “If the Europeans look at someone as if he is the devil, then he wants to look acceptable in their eyes. This is what has happened with Ehud Barak.”

    While Barak wallows in his self-hatred by bullying Jews, Arabs, Foreigners Attack New Eastern Jerusalem Jewish Resident

    According to this article by Arutz Sheva, “A “welcoming” committee of Arabs and foreign anti-Israel activists, including those from the United States and Sweden, attacked Jews with clubs and stones Tuesday as a new family moved into a home in eastern Jerusalem. Police stopped the attack but not before blood was streaming down the face of a Jewish guard at the site.

    The clash came as Sweden plans to present a proposal to the European Union that it recognize eastern Jerusalem as the capital of the Palestinian Authority, a step that would give the PA de facto status as a state and weaken Israeli sovereignty over the city.”

    From my own point of view, this violent provocation requires answer by Jews. Foreigners, particularly Americans, Swedes and other Europeans who feel they have the right to intervene in our internal affairs, must be beaten bloody and wounded so severely that they run home to their mother countries. The efforts by the EU to re-divide our capital are, in effect, and act of war, and the actions of these thugs from overseas are the opening salvos in that war.

    Since our government doesn’t have the balls to fight that war, we Israelis will have to – on our own. As for the Israeli leftists – they’re beginning a civil war themselves. They who sow a wind shall reap a whirlwind.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Bob,

    I have already read your side of the argument – many times. If you are not willing to even look at mine, then we have nothing to talk about. Don’t waste your breath further in defamatory remarks, because that is all they are.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [If you are not willing to even look at mine, then we have nothing to talk about.]
    Ruvy, I have looked at your side of the argument and it doesn’t stand up. The San Remo case is full of holes and is an anachronism. The religious claim is a non-argument since it has no more status than any other religious claim, arab or otherwise.

    You don’t seem to have anything on the table except a Zionist insistence that your claim to Arab lands is valid. It isn’t. You haven’t been able to make the case.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Let’s look at this article one more time. The European leftist thugs who attacked a Jewish family moving into a home near the Shim’on haTzaddiq neighborhood in Jerusalem represent the muscular and militant version of the kinds of comments we read here on this comment thread (…even the US administration will have to reassess the level of support it gets, because the political embarrassment of shoring up such overt racism will become internationally untenable. It will then contemplate regime change possibly through proxy states of a more reasonable political stance, but more likely by backing factions within Israel. The CIA has experience of doing just that sort of thing in South America. Maybe this time, it would be justified.)

    The European and American thugs in Jerusalem are already attempting “regime change” on their own by attacking Jews in Jerusalem. The Arabs were mere hammers in the hands of the evil sons of Eisav. The hands need to be sliced off to teach the real lesson. What these thugs deserve is a squad of Jews to trace these bastards to their lairs, to burn whatever offices they have and to beat up anyone found there – so severely they should never forget the experience. Oh, the Europeans will run to the cops and to their embassies and the shits on the BBC and CNN will give them plenty of air time. But their offices will still have been burned and these bastards will still know what will be coming the next time. And no matter how brave they are on camera, they will still fear – and have good reason to.

    It looks like we need a Jewish Defense League in Israel after all.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    There is after all, a positive development in the events transpiring here. IDF reservists, who are the backbone of the State of Israel, have decided to refuse to serve their reservist stints until the government ends the freeze on construction in Judea and Samaria.

    From the letter being circulated to reservists in our country as published in Arutz Sheva:

    “There is reason to fear that the freeze decree also involves the destruction, demolition and expulsion of residents from 23 new communities known as ‘outposts’.”

    Citing the “cold shoulder which the government and the institutions of state have turned to hundreds of thousands of their citizens; in view of the hardheartedness of the High Court in all matters pertaining to the rights of Jews to their land and country,” the reservists who sign on to this will take a unilateral step to assert their own rights and deprive the country of their services ans reservists.

    This can only be a positive step, a signal to the scum in J-lem that they can only go so far in turning this country into a doormat for foreign imperialists.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Irene (#98),

    Interesting dichotomy. Perhaps it reflects two perspectives both issuing from different vantage points. Which is to say, you may love your warring children, yet act you must to stop the warring.

  • Mark

    image: huge Western Boots on the ground in the holy land lovingly administering spankings and time outs to squabbling wee kikes and wogs.

    If the ‘warrior-medic’ ethic is based on such dominator metaphors, it comes across as same old same old — imo.

  • Mark

    yup — there’s the ticket

    image: crowded room with two groups of people (stereotypical Jews and Arabs) gathered at opposite walls…surrounding the room are heavily/heavenly armed US soldiers…writing in a bubble over a loud speaker on one of the walls in the room reads, “This is a safe space. Experience each other!”

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    And why not? It’s confrontation therapy, under loving supervision.

    Do experience one another, children!

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    A more constructive way of visualizing the model: reenacting of war is preferable to war itself.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Do you think, Mark, that the Star Trek model, featuring the Federation of Planets is not feasible.

    I grant we’ve got a long way to go, but seriously now, I don’t see better hope for the humankind.

  • Mark

    Seriously? I’m more behind the future of humanity laid out in the Hitchhiker’s Guide.

    Don’t panic.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I’m not familiar with that scenario. But to come to the point, it may well be that the possibility for individual and communal autonomy may have to be guaranteed by some overarching geopolitical framework. One has to assume of course the general morality of such a framework – a big if. And it doesn’t quite square away with some of the radical views of Foucault, who questions the very possibility of morality as a historically untainted notion. But that’s where he may be wrong.

    Anyway, I’ll post something on the old thread in a few days, and I hope we might take the discussion to another level.

    I’ve kind of given up on Cindy. She hasn’t been the same since she stopped smoking.

  • Mark

    I’m looking forward to reading what you’ve come up with.

    Cindy wrote recently that she doesn’t believe anyone any more — that’s progress.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Cindy must be following her heart which contains more wisdom than an auditorium full of Christian right wing impotent conservatives.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It’s not a question of believing anyone, more a matter of having personal beliefs and convictions. And I hope the statement of her credo wasn’t this inclusive.

    Anyways, I’m not asking anyone to believe what I have to say, only to consider it.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    That ain’t saying much, Silas.

  • Mark

    …didn’t mean you, Rog. I’m with Silas.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    So am I, except the contrast is kind of lame, although picturesque. Anyone can do better.

  • Mark

    (That’s not to say that the whole power/dominator narrative doesn’t run the risk of essentialism.)

  • Irene Wagner

    LOL@108 Mark…But I understand your point, and made a similar one dozens of comments ago. A power grab is a power grab.

    When I speak of “warrior/medic” I am usually talking about two different, and DEFINITELY not coordinated (unless you’re talking about medical military personnel), approaches to violent conflict. In fact, a secondary conflict begins in consideration of these two approaches: warriors vs. medics. I don’t have it figured out.

    As to the recommended mix of warriors/medics in Israel, I couldn’t begin to advise. I do know they need a heck of a lot of medics, and the sooner the better.

    I’m in a rush so can’t speak more.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    #121,

    Correct, and some aspects of Arendt’s views provide a kind of remedy. I believe that was your main concern about taking Foucault too seriously.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Roger, Mark,

    You guys can take Foucault and stuff him in a fault or vault where the sun don’t shine, so he doesn’t have to stink up the place with his philosophical bullshit. The same with Arendt. A bigger pack of garbage I’ve not seen.

    As for the warriors and medics stuff, be very careful. Even us non-soldiers can and will shoot foreign soldiers who don’t belong here – and a red cross is just another sign of Christian oppression here. Send over either – with whatever sense of condescension I sense in your comments – and you’ll soon be bitching about all the body bags going back to America and screaming, “nuke those ungrateful Jew-bastards!”

    Heh – you’ll all sound just like Martin Luther did when we wouldn’t fall all over his line of bullshit 500 years ago.

    Keep that in mind gentlemen and ladies.

    If Cindy’s quitting smoking has gotten her out of the smoke filled room of this philosophical baloney, so much the better for her!

  • Mark

    Well, Ruvy, we needed to come up with something to cover the stench of death on this thread..

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Clashes continued with police and “government” officials today. Several residents of Samaria were arrested for resisting government attempts to enforce its illegal construction freeze in Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem.

    According to Arutz Sheva, two people were arrested at the Hatam Junction in Samaria for allegedly throwing stones at security forces. The two were jailed and will be brought before the Kfar Sava Magistrate’s Court on Thursday. Two others were arrested near Yitzhar for allegedly throwing stones at security forces, and another individual was arrested at Avni Hefetz for allegedly attacking police officers.

    Stone throwing is a serious business. If Jews are throwing stones at police here, more violent confrontations will soon likely follow.

    Two hundred residents of the town of Einav north of here were more successful in keeping out “government” officials. They were blocked from entering and eventually left.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    You’ve got more patience than I, Mark, it’s the comments that were interesting.

    As for the article itself, if you’ve read one, you’ve read them all. That’s my experience. But I guess we’re being shown to the door. Oh, well, all foreigners and white devils are unwelcome.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [Even us non-soldiers can and will shoot foreign soldiers who don’t belong here – and a red cross is just another sign of Christian oppression here.]

    Careful Ruvy, that sounds suspiciously like the Taliban line :)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    As for the article itself, if you’ve read one, you’ve read them all. That’s my experience.

    I’m so sorry to bore you, Roger. The truth is that not all that much has really happened here in the last 20 years. But you would have to have read my previous article through to see that. But all the articles are the same, right? Why should you bother?

    If G-d gives me to see more than just the position of a struggling editor in this country, you’ll have plenty to write about, and you’ll be whirling like a Dervish condemning what occurs here. And I just won’t have the time to even read what you write! A pity!

    You white devils and foreigners have such rough lives!

    Until then, I have to write. Also a pity….

  • Mark

    Irene #122, my suspicion is that the dialectic itself ‘must’ transform from a conflict based analysis to one which recognizes co-operation as a moving force not simply a means of movement.

    Personally, I’ve adopted something of a Little Bill attitude when it come to Ruvy; when I see him coming, I start throwing pies and assume self-defense.

  • Irene Wagner

    …and some medics try to stay out of the dialectic altogether. Or, more or less…
    “Just say no,” remember? :) Not the easiest thing to do.

  • Mark

    Aw geeze — so often I forget to remember…or, pervert that I am, I remember to forget.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    There’s the contemplative/medic mode and the performative/warrior mode. Are they necessarily contradictory? Not if the latter is a strategy. A faulty strategy? Perhaps.
    Is the non-violence movement necessarily pacifist and non-confrontational? One could argue it’s more confrontational than a typical kind of conflict.

  • Irene Wagner

    Roger that sounds suspiciously like dialectic…must…say….no…

    Some warriors are warriors in different spheres. Same with medics.

    Stay safe Ruvy, and try not to go too wholesale on anyone.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I was just experimenting, to see what obtains. But why shouldn’t love be militant?

  • Mark

    Chipped teeth.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    A worth recap.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Police showed the truth of my words – that Israel is not democracy. They arrested ten people demonstrating outside of the Pedu’el home of a “freeze inspector”. The demonstrators would have been left undisturbed had they been demonstrating in Tel Aviv demanding that Jews be ejected from their homes.

    So much for the loyalty of the secular trash from Tel Aviv and the coast – but I digress….

  • Cindy

    Wow…busy day…

    Hmmm, apparently Silas thinks I probably smell better than a room full of dead skunks. Mark agrees–thanks you! :-)

    Roger is busy playing Risk, but pauses to wonder if smelling better than a dead skunk is a good thing.

    Mark says, “(That’s not to say that the whole power/dominator narrative doesn’t run the risk of essentialism.)” Then Roger (of course) writes something that demonstrates that that made sense to him.

    And what are you guys (gals) doing with the warrior/medic analogy? Some fancy stuff, it seems…

    For me, it is a simple metaphor for a couple possible ways of dealing with the world as it effects us and others, thus:

    Medic: ‘all you need is love’
    Warrior: ‘gggrrrooooar!!!!’

    (Hiya Ruvy…)

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Cindy,

    Medic: ‘all you need is love’
    Warrior: ‘gggrrrooooar!!!!’

    Your metaphors are all messed up.

    Let’s try for “reality” – that is to say, common practice in the World of Lies and Deception ha’olám hashéqer.

    medic: all you need is this pill from my detail man – the bill will be in the mail – if you survive.

    Warrior: when the fuck can I get out of this mud/sand/water/swamp and get back to see my wife and kids/girlfriend & kids?/lover – and when the fuck do I get paid?

    Congrats on having stopped the cancer sticks – keep it up.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—UPDATE—

    MK Nachman Shai (Kadima)Netanyahu Must Split Away From Settlers;

    Israel is lying to itself about ‘united Jerusalem’;

    Yesha Chief on Netanyahu: I Don’t Believe Him;

    EU Gave NIS 31.5 million to Leftwing Israeli Groups.

    Each of these items (three of them picked up in the news for today) pushes this small nation towards civil war. It appears that the slide in that direction is inevitable.

    Those condescending fools who whine of the “stench of death” on this thread don’t understand that this thread’s warnings – this article’s warnings – are of a very real stench of death arising in my homeland, and when that occurs, events will begin to spin out of control altogether.

    That stench of death will spread world-wide as Jews from Israel – disgusted with the interference in our affairs from Europe and America – will take a leaf from the book of the Etze”l and LEH”I and bring violence to you and your cities. The day of the Jewish terrorist willing to strike fear in his enemy on his home soil is not yet done.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I don’t know how well I’ll be able to keep up with posting today. But already reports have come in of “inspectors” in Northern Samaria, in Shakéd and Shavei Shomrón. These inspectors were accompanied by security personnel – which portends violence.

    A bit after this report came in, Ya’acov Katz, the head of the National Union Party, which will emerge as the lead opposition party to this government of traitors, has called upon the residents of Judea and Samaria, as well as the residents of Jerusalem (650,000 people altogether) to “take off the gloves” in dealing with “the racist, anti-Semitic edict against Jews” – which is what this building freeze is.

    Of course, the traitors in J-lem must be ejected from office, and tried for treason and hung. They are digging their own graves.

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [The day of the Jewish terrorist willing to strike fear in his enemy on his home soil is not yet done.]

    A Jewish jihad yet?!

    [Of course, the traitors in J-lem must be ejected from office, and tried for treason and hung.]

    Your notion of justice is interesting, Ruvy. Why bother with the trial if they are to be hung?…

    But it does look like the Zionist project is imploding on itself. No surprise there. Hopefully enough Jews will be so sick and tired of living in an aggressive military state bent on land-grabbing, that they’ll turf out the war-mongerers and try a separation of synogogue and state. Though where the Zionists will go is anyone’s guess. Their best bet is to negotiate of course. But if they decided to become an underground terrorist network as Ruvy almost suggests, they’d need to find some backers, and that will be increasingly difficult. Without a seat at the US table, they will be looking for crumbs.

  • Ruvy

    Bob,

    If you’d been reading my articles, like this one, or perhaps this one, for example, which has links to a whole host of other articles that can enlighten you on where this nation is going, you would know already that the Zionist movement is moribund. It is specifically moribund because its followers have lost faith in their mission and want – oh this is rich – the separation of synagogue and state. And then they want to dump the synagogue altogether!

    The problem is that not enough of the Hiloní (secular, G-d-hating) garbage are rich enough to run to places like Germany, India, Australia, or even, for the totally retarded among them, Spain. So, they are stuck, embittered, and lost, without a mission in life except the acquisition of money, getting laid, doing drugs – and raising kids who are no better than the trash you find on Jerry Springer. And the nice part of all this is that they don’t like to have kids – like you selfish Europeans, they realize that kids cost money and take away from that fun lifestyle of yours – so religious Jews more and more make up the youth, and most importantly, the army and officer corps of the country.

    We believing Jews do have a mission in life aside from having lots of kids and grandkids. We want to bring the Redemption. That means changing the State around altogether – and in the end that means ditching Zionism, so the messiah can come and rule.

    Zionism is secular bullshit, a “national liberation movement”; bit by bit, the most patriotic and strong spirited of Israelis, the ones who believe in the Living G-d of Israel, are realizing that Zionism, the official ideology of the G-d and Torah-hating Hiloním who ruin Israel, is something that served its purpose, and is dead.

    We are tired of living in a country filled with Arab terrorists egged on by interfering outsiders like you to engage in aggressive land-grabbing and murder. And the day will come when interfering foreigners like you will be ejected – pleasantly or otherwise. If not, we will carry terrorism to your shores. Don’t think that you will be immune from the violence and horror that you interfering foreigners foment amongst us and support so warmly.

  • Mark

    Cindy #129, I don’t believe you.

    Ruvy, I will think of you always as BC’s own mad Rabbi Cojones. I expect great things from you if you can stay out of trouble.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I was thinking of a warrior more on the model of Don Juan from Carlos Castaneda’s stories – answering to the quality of being impeccable, (or even Don Quixote) – rather than Conan the Barbarian or Ruvy from Samaria. Which is to say, the dichotomy has got to meaningful, both terms equally compelling, to be interesting.

    In that sense, Christ was both the warrior and the medic (as was Castaneda’s Don Juan and the Cervantes’s character). So there isn’t really a conflict or rather, there is only an apparent conflict, namely, different modes of acting upon and in the world as the differing circumstances may warrant. The trick is – both modes presuppose and are contingent on (immaculate) judgment.

    Perhaps the resolution to “the Foucault dilemma.”

  • http://www.leavingthelandofwoo.com Bob Lloyd

    [It is specifically moribund because its followers have lost faith in their mission and want – oh this is rich – the separation of synagogue and state. And then they want to dump the synagogue altogether!]

    Sounds like they’re wising up.

    [We want to bring the Redemption. That means changing the State around altogether – and in the end that means ditching Zionism, so the messiah can come and rule.]

    So it’s religious Zionism? It really sounds like such messianism is completely anachronistic. Whatever your religious beliefs, thinking that you can translate that belief into credible territorial claims is hopelessly out of touch.

    [to engage in aggressive land-grabbing and murder]
    Er… who was doing that?

    [And the day will come when interfering foreigners like you will be ejected – pleasantly or otherwise.]
    It seems from what you’ve written yourself, that a far more likely outcome is that the Zionists of all stripes will get a hammering at the hands of more rational Israelis, that the state will be pushed internally from its irridentist actions, and that sooner or later, a negotation will take place with the Palestinians. While there are aggressive Zionists, there will always be a tendency to degenerate to more aggressive actions against Palestinians, but with time, and a change of generations, it’s possible that Israel will outgrow them.

    Everything you’ve written, Ruvy, in this article and your comments demonstrates that we should all hope for that outcome. It’s probably not quite what you intended.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The very concept of “prophesying” in Hebrew – a verb form – has been corrupted to a noun form, “prophesy,” to mean future-telling. A more accurate rendition is perhaps a “whistle-blower,” the telling of a homily, a sermon – a kind of injunction to “the People” to straighten out and get their shit together. The images invoked by “the prophets” were meant to turn the people around, rather than foretelling of things to come. The prophets were the voices of conscience, the conscience of a nation, rather than foretellers of fortune. And the underlying intent was to set the people aright rather than mobilize them against their enemies. The faults that the prophets meant to eradicate lied with the Hebrews, not with the Canaanites. So it was not a call to arms. If anything, it was a call to repentance.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    146 – Roger,

    That sounds good and I like that. But, both are warriors. So, I guess it depends on which version makes sense in the story at hand.

    For my story they are just two parts of the same person. The medic is repairing damage, is not aggressive, is calm, doesn’t start freaking out at the sight of blood and run off to ‘kill the enemy’ (possibly leaving the victim to die of his/her injuries), but does the right and necessary things.

    The warrior is reactive and angry, fed up, scarred and unforgiving, and impatiently wants a lightening bolt to come down and destroy the bad guys–right now!

    So, these are not two heroes, in my story. They represent a personal struggle or inner battle over whether the protagonist will be able to choose the perspective of medic over that of the warrior, whether or not the warrior is actually all bad. And, if the two should remain–how to balance them.

    Not interesting?

    (So, what is new, Roger…I was waiting for some post in your old thread. We should talk on the phone soon.)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Correct, Cindy. I see it too as a kind of inner struggle within one personality – mitigated on on side by outrage and another one, when the cooler head prevails, but the more contemplative aspect of a person in his more (self) reflective, understanding, loving mode. All along, I believe that’s what Irene had in mind when she introduced the dichotomy.

    Why don’t you call me later in the evening. I was out of money – and that means liquor and cigarettes – for the past twenty some days and my mind is a mush. Even now, I can barely think. But I should have my check in the mailbox today.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Maybe the difference is that your story is fiction, Roger. The warriors are all ‘noble’.* My warrior as well as the Ruvy from Samaria warrior are real and can be mean.

    Sometimes the warrior and the medic, in my story, seem to take the same exact action–just from a different motivation, I think. The answer is coming clearer, for me all the time. I think it may have to do with keeping a certain idea at the forefront of my thoughts…you ready?

    We will all die. Do the right thing.

    *Had to find a word to replace ‘gypped’ the other day…now here is ‘noble’ and it’s implication that the dominators are the good guys–gotta watch my language. ;-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    I see it too as a kind of inner struggle within one personality – mitigated on on side by outrage and another one, when the cooler head prevails, but the more contemplative aspect of a person in his more (self) reflective, understanding, loving mode. All along, I believe that’s what Irene had in mind when she introduced the dichotomy.

    I like that description: that is what I think of the warrior–as outraged.

    I would have to check with Irene, but I can see how she (and you…and probably Mark–as he used the word ‘ethic’ rather than analogy) would be using that sort of characterization.

    But, like with Ruvy, my warrior is real. I’m just describing my own feelings. And they have not always been ‘noble’, sensitive, or loving. I do see though that my own character is becoming tamer and more like the one you have described. Perhaps you are farther along in the story than me. Either that or you character does not need redemption. Mine may be more flawed. :-)

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The Castaneda’s idea of warrior was that he/she were impeccable – to mean as close to “perfect” as possible.

    Don Quixote was noble.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    And to complicate the concept – “warrior” also means “against the self.”

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    I love Don Quixote…he is my kind of hero. And just like in real life…they stopped him from being idealistic…so he became realistic…and was never happy again.

    154 – that works for my usage…

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    The human lot.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Is the non-violence movement necessarily pacifist and non-confrontational? One could argue it’s more confrontational than a typical kind of conflict.

    Is a pacifist necessarily non-confrontational?

    Some warriors are warriors in different spheres. Same with medics. (Irene)

    Words, words, words… Sometimes all the explanation seem true, though they say a whole bunch of different things… it just seems to depend on how one is looking at them… makes me delirious. Maybe we should have some subscript numbering scheme. :-)

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    145 – Mark,

    I don’t believe you.

    lol…that is what they all say :-)

    Okay, what does Roger mean by this?

    #123 – Roger writes, in regard to your #121, which says: (That’s not to say that the whole power/dominator narrative doesn’t run the risk of essentialism.)

    “Correct, and some aspects of Arendt’s views provide a kind of remedy. I believe that was your main concern about taking Foucault too seriously.”

    That means you are dissing Foucault, doesn’t it? lol

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    I was just experimenting, seeing how far one could stretch the usual definitions.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Not entirely, but Mr. F goes overboard at times and needs to be read in a more constructive fashion once the therapy is over.

  • Ruvy

    I’m presently working on another article on this general topic. It doesn’t deal with Arabs per se. A detailed article on that topic will come out (with G-d’s help) when a friend of mine, Lowell Gallin, releases his forthcoming book, Cracking the Qur’an Code: Volume I [Root & Branch Association, Ltd]

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    160, Okay, Roger. Thanks. I am still wondering wondering what Mark thinks.

  • Irene Wagner

    Maybe Mark is still wondering what he’s wondering. I’m still wondering what I’m wondering.
    Roger #150, yes partly. You and Cindy described the internal struggle between two aspects of the same personality, the one “having its mind made up already” and overpowering, the other merciful, seeking to understand and even concede. That is a struggle, but it isn’t the one I’m talking about. That impeccable Christ description of yours helps me to explain. A person wonders: “am I so far away from the ideal of the impeccable Warrior Christ that as a warrior, I’d do more harm to the good than harm to the harm?”

    Cindy lol@needing an index. What I mean by “warriors in different spheres” is: let someone whose essays on pacifism you told me about, Greg Boyd explain it.

    Ruvy, your description of warriors and medics made me smile. Funny, and insightful. I wish everything you wrote here made me smile. I guess if I could read Arabic, I could read attitudes that were just as distressing. BUt what you wrote about medics and warriors, that made me smile.

    It’s way late. I don’t think I can come back.

  • Mark

    Cindy, Rog was referring back to our previous discussion in which I objected to Foucault’s reduction of the power relationship to dominance and offered Arendt’s alternative reduction to co-operation.

    Both fail the anti-essentialist smell test, imo.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Irene,

    That was good amplification of the idea of internal struggle, capturing perhaps the essence of why there is a struggle to begin with, and yes, it does have to do with self-doubt. So yes, you helped articulate the deeper meaning because the road to perfection is endless and a lifetime quest. And the same goes for our understanding, which is always less than complete.

    Mark, I think you are correct in that both positions are guilty of reductionism and are (therefore?) essentialist. I happen to think that Lyotard manages to escape these flaws because his strategy is less theoretical and more practical, nibbling at the edges or the margins. I’ll address it later in our thread.

  • http://thingsalongtheway.blogspot.com/ Cindy

    Mark,

    I vaguely recall that now. I will have to consider that reductionism/essentialism idea…

    —–

    Irene? You didn’t tell me about Greg Boyd? Hmmm…what might have happened: You told me about the passages that he deals with re: Christian anarchism. Then, maybe I found his site while I was looking up info on those passages?

    I will look over your post and that page from his site later. Got a busy night ahead. Thanks for that.

    —–
    Here is one of my favorite things for you all (you too Ruvy!)…since Roger brought up my hero…

    …and I have been thinking that he is sort of the quintessential portrait of the right balance of warrior and medic…

    I chose this imperfect video because I think it is the best performance of this song ever. Maybe I am biased because I saw him perform this on Bway, or because he looks a little like my father. Strangely, he looks a little like my mother, too… But, I think when he puts his costume on and becomes the character there is nothing comparable.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    It is obvious that even today, nobody gives a damn about the Israelis kicked out of Gush Qatif illegally in 2005. I don’t expect the Arabo-philes on this site to give a damn – just like I don’t expect Europeans to give a damn or Americans. But at least fellow Israelis – especially those who pretend to have opposed this treasonous act – People who should give a damn – don’t.

    The building freeze undertaken to kiss American ass has fucked over he residents of Gush Qatif a second time. From the article: After noting that the freeze will cost them money, both directly and indirectly, Yefet added, “This decision is a freeze not only of construction, but also of our lives. It means we must remain yet another year in this temporary housing, in addition to the two years it will take to actually build, and in addition to the four and a half years since we were thrown out of our homes.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE–UPDATE

    Every confrontation like this moves us closer to the point where one Jew will fire upon another.

    In the Russian Empire, different sects of Jews would denounce competing sects to the Russian government, and the Russian government would be the torture chamber. Today celebrates the release of one such Jew, framed by Jews from a competing sect, from a Russian prison in 1798.

    Here we have no Russians to serve as the instruments of torture – so the goons – supposedly people to protect us – turn upon us instead. It was this behavior in Europe that brought upon us the holocaust of the Nazis. It will be this behavior today that will bless the hands of the savages to the north HizbAllah – when they attack us in the near future – turning our cities into funeral pyres.

    Continuing violence in Samaria as police attack Jews to the applause of Arabs.

    Units of the goon squad of the Israel Police, Yassa”m, attacked residents of Kedumim Sunday morning, and beat up demonstrators, Arutz Sheva reported today. There is a video to be watched along with the report.

    From the article:

    The inspectors were accompanied by special Yassam unit police officers, who reportedly used strong violence to disperse the protestors. The Yassamnikim hit the town’s mayor, Chananel Durani, and his deputy, eyewitnesses say, and threw young girls on the street, as seen on the video above.

    The inspectors ultimately succeeded in entering the town, where they placed the stop-work orders and quickly left. Their cars were pelted with eggs and other objects, courtesy of the residents.

    The Shomron Residents Committee reports that on their way to Kedumim, the forces drove through three nearby Arab villages – Funduk, Haja, and Kadoum – places that the army generally considers too dangerous to enter in order to apprehend terrorists or confiscate weapons.

    To the Jewish residents’ horror, they learned that the Arab residents applauded as the convoy of forces drove through.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Ruvy, with all due respect, perhaps it is time for civil war. Perhaps that is what your nation needs to finally come together as the State of Israel. I continue to believe that Arab and Jew can coexist in peace and mutual respect. The problem is that political leaders from both sides are unable to effect the same. I pray (I MEAN this is the best way), that the United States stays out of the civil war because our involvement in your civil war will result in the inevitable — another United States civil war.

    In the meantime, Ruvy, regardless of the outcome in your land, know that this individual on the other side of the world holds you and your family in his unworthy prayers.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Ruvy, I see that the Israeli government continues to pay comatose Ariel Sharon $315 million per year including a car and driver allowance. Not bad for a man who has been in a vegetative state for four years. Now, how much has the United States given to the Israeli government in the last 4 years? And how much of that money has been lent back to the United States with hefty interest rates attached? Americans, take note. If you want to see where your tax dollars are going, start educating yourselves. It looks like Ariel Sharon is paid three times the money Barack Obama earns and Sharon is in a literal coma while Obama remains politically comatose.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Silas,

    Thank you for your kind words. And please don’t ever say your prayers are unworthy. They are far more worthy than those of the man who pretends religiosity while screwing over his neighbor, or than those who pray by rote without caring or understanding the words they utter. They come from the heart, and they come from the heart of a man who has struggled with his faith. G-d listens especially closely to such prayers – at least so I believe.

    aní modéh l’khá m’rosh halév. I thank you with all my heart.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Ruvy, do you think the day will come where Arab and Jew can exist peacefully within a state? Or are those dreams too unrealistic?

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Silas,

    do you think the day will come where Arab and Jew can exist peacefully within a state? Or are those dreams too unrealistic?

    I repeat the last page of my article Bad News at My Doorstep.

    It may seem that we in Israel are a “generation lost in space – with no time to start again”. It may seem that all we can do is “clench our fists in rage” as forces of evil and puppets of foreign powers put this land on a sacrificial altar to foreign gods of “peace” and death. But I do not believe so. It has gotten considerably worse than it was in 1989 when Rabbi Meir Kahane, may his memory be a blessing, and may G-d avenge his blood, sat pessimistically estimating the future of the region on C-Span. But he had faith in the G-d of Israel and I “have faith in G-d above” and in His Prophets.

    In his forthcoming book, Cracking the Qur’an Code (Root & Branch Association, Ltd), my friend and colleague, Lowell Gallin writes,

    In the not-too-distant future, I believe that the world will hear Muslims chanting Allahu Akbar (‘God is great’) and Jews chanting Am Yisrael Chai (‘The People of Israel lives’) – Together.

    In the not-too-distant past, two brothers, Ishmael the elder and Isaac the younger, buried Abraham their father – Together.

    In the not-too-distant future, I believe that the Children of Ishmael and the Children of Israel (Abraham’s grandson and Isaac’s younger son) will replant and rebuild the Lands of Arabia and Israel, as part of a truly new Middle East – Together.

    In the not-too-distant future, I believe that the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel will wake up and return to the Land of Israel – Together.

    In the not-too-distant future, I believe that the Kingdom of David and Solomon will be reestablished in the Land of Israel, and the Twelve Tribes of Israel will ratify selection of the King. Together.

    In the not-too-distant future, I believe that two brothers, Nebaioth and Kedar, Ishmael’s first and second born sons, will bring offerings to the rebuilt Third and Final Temple of Jerusalem – Together.

    A few years ago, I found myself on a Jerusalem construction site together with an Arab foreman and his two young co-workers. The foreman spoke of the problems plaguing Arabs and Jews in the Promised Land. I said that a descendant of David, the King Messiah, would arise to sit on the throne of his fathers, and that he would bring peace between Arabs and Jews in the Promised Land.

    ‘When?’ the foreman quietly asked.

    ‘Soon’, I answered.

    No one spoke or moved. Though we were alone on a construction site, and I could easily have had an ‘accident’, I felt no fear of them.

    At that moment we were united by our shared fear of God and respect for His servant David, whom the Qur’an describes as a king, a prophet and the author of the Psalms.

    When all this transpires – and it will transpire – the trouble will no longer be at my doorstep – it will be at yours.

  • http://delibernation.com Silas Kain

    Ruvy, believe or not, that gives me hope. Perhaps the trouble will be at our doorstep. And when that day comes it will be deserved because we insinuated ourselves into that which was not our business.

    In the course of doing business, I have surrounded myself with Armenians, Persians, Jews and Moroccans. It’s an interesting bunch, especially when together under one roof. But in my group’s diversity, there is commonality. In our debates, there is consensus. And, in our prayers, we all are Children of the same Deity hoping for the same goal — a justice for all which achieves peace.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Netanyahu finally is admitting that his “security” minister” is sticking it to the Jews in Judea and Samaria, admitting Freeze Orders Go Further than Intended.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    A huge demonstration was scheduled for this evening in Paris Square, near the prime minister’s residence in Jerusalem. police are preventing buses from reaching the site in Jerusalem.

    Another example of selective enforcement of the law by the illegal régime of American puppets in Jerusalem. It is time to draw out the steel of Matatayhu to deal with the scum at the top, who worship the evil prince of the setting sun, Barry Soetoro/Barak Obama.

  • Ruvy

    It’s been a year since this article was written. Another illegal building freeze is in the works. Meanwhile, the glass is high and the weather is dry – great weather for HizbAllah to bombard us with missiles and try to destroy us. Who knows?

    While we wait in the shards of disillusion for war to strike, we live our lives, marry off our children, and pray that the evil ones will not interrupt our petty plans too much.

  • Adam

    So now you guys call President Obama anti semitic and you want Israel to become even more right wing, those settlers who live there are animals! Ugh there is no sense talking, you israelis who read this crap are radicals and idiots…

  • http://www.google.com Whatever

    Gee, we’ll be more than happy to withdraw our $3 BILLION in aid that we “sick American fucks” give your country every year. It’s too bad that a bunch of fundamentalist whackadoos have ruined what was once a great country.

  • http://www.google.com Whatever

    And yes, BARACK OBAMA is smart enough to see through your “we want peace, they don’t”
    delusion. Yes, at one time, it did seem like Israel wanted peace-until facists like Netanhahu and Leibermann got in office. Now, the “peace process” is a sick joke. Which is why we “sick American fucks” should leave Israelis to their own devices and pay attention to OUR problems in OUR country.