Beer and wine are on different sides of the alcohol spectrum.
Almost everyone remembers their first drink of alcohol. I remember mine like it was yesterday. Taking a sip of my father's Bud Light when I was seven years old, I realized it tasted nothing like the root beer I frequently drank, mixing it with vanilla ice cream in large plastic cups. As I concentrated on not spitting the beer back in the can, knowing very well this would send my germ-a-phobic father rocking in the corner, I swallowed the beer with my nose plugged and vowed to never drink again.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - robc
shbobdb suggested some Cantillon products. I was going to suggest their Gueuze, just because it is physically impossible to drink it and then say all beers taste the same. I have never heard anyone describe Bud Light as "horseblankety".
27 - Todd1
What town are you located in so we can also point you to a store likely to carry the suggested beers?
As a start, 1) Rochefort 10 for a Belgian Trappist Ale, 2) Great Divide's Old Ruffian for barleywine style, 3) Great Divide's Old Yeti or Rogue's Imperial Stout for a Russian Imperial Stout, 4)Breckinridge's 471 Small Batch IPA for the hop experience.
That should begin to showcase the variety offered in beer today.
28 - Errrrrrrrr
Working just from beers that should be easily available and local to Colorado
Avery out of bounds stout
New Belgium 2degrees below winter ale
New Belgium 1554 black beer
Great Divide Titan Ipa
Flying Dog Old Scratch Amber Lager
Left Hand deep cover brown ale
Avery the Reverend Belgian Style Quadrupel
make it 7 and you're in business
JonW
29 - JJ
Okay..seven will work.
30 - xak
How about these five from Great Divide which is brewed in CO and should be easily accesible to you:
Old Ruffian Barleywine
Oak aged Yeti Imperial Stout
Hercules Double IPA
Hibernation ale
Ridgeline Amber ale
The first four of these are strong and close to wine as far as abv%. These should be accesible to you and are all great beers and completely different from one another. For other ideas, hit up beeradvocate.com and click on beer styles or follow this link http://beeradvocate.com/beer/style
Thanks for keeping an open mind!
31 - JJ
I'm in Denver, close to downtown..but I'm saying this with the confidence that you guys won't find me and murder me with a broken wine bottle. I'm kind of a bleeder.
32 - robc
No promises on that. Not if I catch you chugging a beer (or even drinking from a bottle).
33 - Occidental Pourist
JJ - 5 beers available in Colorado for your tasting:
De Dolle Brouwers Dulle Teve
Rochefort 10
Great Divide Yeti Imperial Stout (Denver)
Sierra Nevada Bigfoot (Chico California - seasonal out now)
Schlenkerla Urbock
The above beers represent a huge range in flavor and texture. Four of them are ales and the last one, the Schlenkerla, is a lager made by kilning the malt over a beachwood fire and the beer picks up the smoke flavor. No added colorings or flavorings.
34 - xak
Possibly visit a brewery near you and learn the ins and outs of making and sampling beer. These tours are generally quite informative and are usually pretty informal so questions and comments are encouraged.
Great Divide Brewing Company
2201 Arapahoe Street, Denver
Twisted Pine Brewing Company
3280 Valmont Rd, Boulder
Avery Brewing Company
5763 Arapahoe Avenue Unit E, Boulder
Redstone Meadery
4700 Pearl St., Unit 2-A, Boulder
Boulder Beer / Wilderness Pub
2880 Wilderness Place, Boulder
Flying Dog Brewery
2401 Blake Street, Denver
Breckenridge BBQ & Brew Pub
471 Kalamath Street, Denver
Coors Brewing Company
13th and Ford Street, Golden
35 - Errrrrrrrr
As long as you evaluate the beers like you would a wine, Colour, aroma, body, flavour, finish, etc... you should do fine, and hopefully be pleasantly surprised. Dont chill the hell out of the beer either. Beer will typically show it's best face at cellar temperature, much as wine does.
Good luck, I look forward to reading the results, wether yay or nay.
JonW
36 - Todd1
Here is a list of stores in the area. They should be able to help you put together your tasting options.
Total Beverage
770 East 104th Avenue, Thornton
Liquor Mart
1750 15th St., Boulder
RoundUp Liquors
12165 Sheridan Bouldevard, Broomfield
Chambers Wine & Liquor
15260 E. Iliff Ave (Iliff & Chambers), Aurora
Colorado Liquor Mart
865 South Colorado Boulevard, Denver
The Wine Company
5910 South University Boulevard, D4, Greenwood Village
37 - robc
one more thing to add on to what Errrrrrr said. DO NOT SPIT. Beer tasters never spit.
38 - Brad
I'm glad to see you're open-minded enough to try a beer tasting and test your theory. A word of caution, though: you're testing for diversity, not enjoyment. Many of the beers that have been suggested are pretty potent, and while many of us advocates enjoy them, many may be an acquired taste, as is the case with wine.
If you come out liking even one or two of these beers, I'd consider that a big win. Just remember to consume it the same way you would wine...swirl it, sniff it, sip it, etc. No beer bongs, please!
Beers can be intensely sour, intensely bitter, intensely sweet, chocolatey, phenolic, grassy, yeasty...the list goes on and on. I could drink a Manischevitz and a Retsina side by side and think they're both horrendous, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't recognize the vast array of possible experiences wine can provide to my senses.
39 - Errrrrrrrr
And here's a little bit of your legwork done. These seem to be some of the better to buy beer in the Denver area.
Merchant Of Vino/Whole Foods
7400 East Hampden Avenue
Denver, Colorado, 80231
Colorado Liquor Mart
865 South Colorado Boulevard
Denver, Colorado, 80246-8006
Grapes and Grains
2780 S. Colorado Blvd. 304
Denver, Colorado, 80222
Morgan Liquors
1200 East Evans Ave
Denver, Colorado, 80112
40 - JJ
Okay cool. I've got a lot of suggestions. Some I have tried before at various beer festivals, but some of them I've never even heard of. I think I will go with seven, since someone said that five wasn't enough. I will see what I think. If I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong. I can eat, or rather drink, crow. I will taste these next Friday so an article about it will appear the following week (the 19th). Stay turned. Thanks for the suggestions.
41 - Shbobdb
Cheers to an open mind!
42 - Lew Bryson
Wow, I must be even sophisticateder than you, I drink whiskey.
Let's point this.
If you drink whiskey too fast, you wind up dead, not just sick: point to me.
Whiskey is so strong, it takes months of sipping experience to be able to get past the alcohol "wall" and actually taste the nuances: point to me.
Whiskey comes from different countries and states, different ages and vintages, and different grains and yeasts: we'll call that one even.
History? Ever heard of the Whiskey Rebellion, a seminal moment in American history when Washington led more troops than he did in the Revolutionary War? And when his Continental Army troops were freezing at Valley Forge, Washington didn't send out for wine, he sent "Teufel Pete" Muehlenburg to Lancaster and Reading for whiskey. Distillation was an important technology transfer from the Middle East to Europe. Ulysses S. Grant's career was soaked in whiskey. Scottish history, Irish history, Canadian and American history: everywhere you turn, there's whiskey: we'll call that one even, although I'm betting there wasn't a Wine Rebellion at any point.
And behavior, decorum? Ahem. The Windsors drink whisky. Scots clad in full kilted fig drink whisky. Harry Truman drank whiskey. Whiskey comes with a regalia and armamentarium of ritual and accessories equal to wine, a dignity equal to wine. It's a sacrifice, but we'll call this one equal.
Looks like 2-null, my favor. Which all comes down to nothing, really: it's silly.
Wine is a drink of the proletariat in Europe. It WAS the drink of the street bum in America until about 40 years ago, when some savvy Californians decided to make some money and changed wine's character and image in this country. Any advantage wine has over beer is wholly in the eye of the beholder...which at this blog, you are.
Good luck at the tasting next Friday. Don't forget to have some cheese: it goes better with beer, you know.
43 - homebrew addict
Westmalle Dubbel-sublime,
Orval for the contrast,
Old Rasputin Imperial stout
Hoegaarden
Dupont Saison
I chose these not only because they are great beers, but there's a lot of variety here and they should be easy to get. Serve them properly-you wouldn't judge a red wine served from a bucket of ice and poured into a styrofoam cup.
44 - jmc44
Wow, your level of ignorance is truly shocking. Not only are there dozens of types of beers, each unique in identity, but 99.9% of these beers are not intended for drinking games or chugging.
Bud Light and "wheat beers served with an orange" are not good examples of beer. Bud light is quite terrible, created to be bland (do a google patent search). Wheat beers aren't supposed to be served with any fruit.
Beer has historically been significantly stronger than the swill produced in America today by the 3 big brewers, in the 8% + range. Numerous beers today are stronger than typical wines.
Complexity and flavor in real beer rivals that of wine. Try any number of belgian beers, or some strong stouts, barleywines, etc.
True beer is made to be enjoyed in the company of friends, not chugged or drunk in mass quantities. Get your head out of Budweiser's ass and see what real beer is like before you pollute the internet with more of this pointless, uninformed, incorrect drivel.
45 - clock
I wanted to suggest some things that you may actually enjoy as well as taste the differences. There are many extremely good beers above, however the non-beer fan, may not appreciate some of them for their greatness. Here are a couple to add that you may enjoy and they are also extremely well made.
Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout
Dogfish Head Raison D'Etra (be sure it's the D'Etra not the D'Extra, huge difference on ABV)
The DFH should have some slight wine similarities as it's made with white raisons and is still very potent at 8% ABV. The Sammy Smith is going to be slightly sweet and many non-beer drinkers like it as well as the beer advocates of the world. Cheers to you for accepting the challenge!
46 - BeerAdvocate
And the BeerAdvocates prevail!
Thank you for having an open-mind about trying some of the ultra-fine brews mentioned above. I say try:
Rochford 10 or 12
Chimay Red or Blue
Bell's HopSlam
Sierra Nevada Bigfoot BarleyWine (drink at about 50-55 degrees)
Ommegang Farmhouse Saison
Brooklyn's Black Chocolate Stout
New Glarus' Wisconsin Belgian Red (nice, deep cherry flavor)
Good luck with your tastings, and I look forward to your reviews. Good Day!
47 - Belgian Wannabe
try
Sam Smith's Imperial Stout
Avery's Mephistopheles
Dogfish Head's 120 Minute I.P.A.
Newport Storm's Coastal Extreme 2006 (aka the "06")
if someone with a palate able to pick up the complexities in wine is not able to decipher the massive differences between each of these brews, this individual would probably either be stoned, or lying to themselves.
48 - Belgian Wannabe
p.s.
beers have no fat content, and most well crafted brews have the same carb count as your average wine.
also dark beers are known to have all the health benefits of red wine (and more).
do a little research on that one when ya get some time.
49 - Confucian Brewer
Cheers for the open mind...In fact you could benefit from this by offering some open minded beer geek a chance to learn more about wine and they can in turn aid in your beer education.
I am sure you have a bunch of recommendations, and so I will add some more. A lot of my wine drinking friends enjoy Rodenbach or Duchesse du Burgoine. I will also second the Saison DuPont.
50 - JJ
Thanks for the suggestions. Maybe you guys will change my mind..I'm stubborn, but no unyielding.
I will have to figure out what 7 (from your lists) I will try. I don't care much about price as I will totally use this as a tax write-off. It's work, right?
51 - Ben Sammis
Try :
Duchesse de Bourgogne (A Flanders Red aged in oak and blended at the ages of 8 and 18 months)
Lagunitas Maximus Imperial IPA - or - Left Hand Twin Sisters IPA
Cantillon Geueze
Alaskan Smoked Porter or Left Hand Smoke Jumper or Aecht Schlenkerla Urbock Rauchbier (save these for last and light up a stogie with them)
Anderson Valley Boont Amber
Rochefort 8 or 10
St. Bernardus Abt 12
Kulmbacher Eisbock or Schneider Aventinus
Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor (any vintage you can find will do, but for some real fun, search out three or four and do a vertical tasting - you'll be amazed at the way the character of the beer develops over time, just like fine wines)
Also, keep your eyes peeled for a bottle or two of Thomas Hardy's, again any vintage.
Above all, as variety is what you're looking for, check with the staff at the store you make your purchases at to make sure that you're not cherry picking a suggestion or two from all of us and ending up with 7 beers of the same style. They'll taste different, but perhaps not enough for your purposes here.
52 - JJ
Yeah..that's a good point. The Cherry picking you pointed out. I thought about that too if I just pick and choose from the list, I might end up with a lot of beer that is similar.
What I will do is, over the weekend, I will compose a list of the seven beers I'm going to try (generated from all the suggestions) and I will post it to this comment box on Monday. You guys can then tell me if I need to swap a certain beer out for another.
53 - Joe
I scanned through and saw no mention of New Belgium's La Folie. That is a MUST for your tasting and it is Colorado made.
As someone who loves both wine and beer I feel comfortable saying beer has a slightly greater flavor range as far as extremes. An Imperial Stout to a Pale Lager or a Berliner Weisse is a huge departure of flavor points.
Also, go to one of the beer websites and get familiar with the proper glassware and how to pour. As a beer columnist it is very frustrating to read comments like yours. You describe beer only in the context of drinking games and college.
Would it be fair for me to describe wine only in the context of sipping Mad Dog 20/20 in the alley behind the liquor store?
It's one thing to be humorous, but your humor was based on a very narrow understanding of beer, beer history and beer styles. A point you beautifully illustrate when you claim several styles for beer. There are many more than several and new styles continue to gain a foothold in the market.
Lastly.....seven different beers may not change your mind at all. But you do like beer. You just have to find the beer you like:
54 - inflatablechair
Hey, at least you're trying. If you can't find some of the sour beers those guys mentioned (Duchesse de Bourgogne, Cantillon Geuze, etc.), you can always try here: Russian River Brewing
Go to the gift shop and check out their bottled beers. Right now they have Temptation available in 375ml bottles. If you're looking for something different, it definitely is.
I ordered some bottles Monday, and got it today (in Boise), so you'll probably get it in time.
Lastly, think about this: how many variable ingredients are there in wine? In beer? If anything, beer is *more* complex.
55 - Wow
You really should not be allowed to own a computer, let alone have access to the internet. Your article is so rife with one sided garbage it was like reading a book written by Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.
Nothing like building an article with skewed facts for bricks and a little bullshit for mortar.
56 - I like Beer Better
Go for diversity, don't let the five beers be all the same choose from significantly different Styles of beer. and try a Rauchbier like" Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Urbock " its a smoked beer I think its available to you. I was very hesitant to try it. I had it in my fridge for a couple months. When I gave it a try I couldn't believe how good it was. It was like a vacation in a bottle. I was taken away in my mind to childhood camping trips, and nights by the campfire cooking steak tips on sticks we would sharpen.
I drank beer like you and never liked it. Then I pretty much stopped drinking. My friends were into wine so I Was going to tasting and always trying some glass of something note worthy, But I really wasn't into it. Then a couple years ago I was in a liquor store buying a bottle of something to drink on Christmas eve. Christmas was the only time I myself would go into a liquor store to buy something for myself, and I would also grab a bottle of whatever mid range bottle of Champaign the store was running a special on. that would be for new years a week later. I was looking around and saw a bottle of beer with a Christmas tree on it. The Beer was In a big bottle 750 ml. for $8. The beer was Cisco brewing co. special Holiday release called celebration libation. I thought it looked right for the occasion and Bought it. I couldn't believe how good it was. I didn't realize how far the craft beer scene had evolved. I didn't just like it I loved it, it tasted so wonderful. I started learning and trying more styles of beer. My friends thought I was nuts and didn't even want to try it. Since that time I have pulled two of my friends over to beer and one of them wants me to join him in getting into brewing our own beer. I keep telling him just keeping up with all the different beers to try is more than I want to drink. I don't want to brew a few gallons of beer as I feel I will be drinking to much.
Good luck on your beer tasting
57 - Bill Soukoreff
Wow, it's great to see the support for good beer. Sadly this article reveals a nasty and ignorant trend in the some European countries. Take Ireland for example. Guinness is actually at the point where they are considering selling off the Guinness label in Ireland, the home of this iconic beverage. While doing very well in almost all other international markets, where Guinness is seen as a high end, classy product, in Ireland (with their new found money comes snobbery) still associates it as a working mans drink and so have turned to wine (it seems climbing the ladder in their pathetic mind). How sad. There is still much work for us beer lovers to do as we educate people and restore beer to it's rightful place in Canada and the US. We have seen a fine beer revolution in last three decades that is now maturing and we see more educated and refined drinkers instead of 'brand' drinkers and 'fickle' 'trendy' drinkers which is also bad for the craft brewing industry. When I go to a restaurant, I like to pull a Michael Jackson (the beer critic, not the other) and ask to see the beer list (he maintains that beer goes better with food then wine, and I agree), when they plead ignorance, he asks for jug of cheap wine which of course they do not have, and so he asks them why they serve the equivalent in beer. Long live IPAs and Belgium Ales!
58 - Baybrewer
Beer is a superior beverage in every way.
Good wine is simply luck.You're at the mercy of nature.Good beer is skill.
59 - Bill Soukoreff
Baybrewer, that says it all.
60 - MikeL
I write about beer and work for a brewery also judge both beer and wine and can attest to the fact that beer can be far more complex than wine, while I do love both.
If you give me an address I will send you a good cross section of beers from a Brandy barrel aged barleywine to Gouden Carolus Grand Cru of the Emperor a rich complex belgian strong ale that is excellent paired with a dark chocolate torte. [Personal contact info deleted]
61 - JJ
My loyal fans...or whatever..
okay, here are the seven beers I have chosen to try this Friday at the beer tasting:
Natural Light (relax, I'm kidding). I chose
Saison DuPont, Orval Trappist, Goose Island Nut Brown Ale, Titan IPA, Hoegaarden, Ridgeline Amber ale, HopSlam
First question, are any of these two closely related that I should swap one out? Also, how would you suggest these be drank? What temp, kind of glass, etc?
Thanks, JJ
62 - JJ
Oh..I also wanted to try the New Belgium's La Folie so I might make it 8.
63 - Ryan
Personally, I really think you should get either St. Bernardus 12 or Rochefort 10 in there, preferably the St. Bernardus. It's a classic example of Belgian brewing, that I've found many people new to the world of beer enjoy. Orval is more hit and miss with people, as the funkiness of it will turn many off. You will still get a bit of the earthy flavors from the Saison DuPont, so I'd say replace Orval with St. Bernardus.
One other possibility is to replace the regular Saison DuPont with their winter saison, named Avec Les Bons Voeux. Their regular saison is a great benchmark saison, the winter one is just incredible - creamy, rich, spicy - a true treat.
Also, be prepared with the IPAs to possibly not like them. The bitterness of the hops take some time to get accustomed to. So, even if you don't personally like it, those are good beers to see how American brewers use hops.
Good luck!
64 - Ryan
Also, for temperature, don't go colder than about 45 degrees. For the stronger beers, 50-55 is about right. You can look up the beers you end up with on beeradvocate to get some good serving temperatures, and glass recommendations. If you go with the St. Bernardus, an oversized wine glass would serve you just fine.
65 - Joe
"First question, are any of these two closely related that I should swap one out? Also, how would you suggest these be drank? What temp, kind of glass, etc?"
You can start around 50 degrees, but if you do so make note of how the flavor changes as it warms. It will change.
Bitterness is highlighted when a beer is cold while other flavors are muted. The inexpensive mass produced lagers don't use much in the way of bittering hops so when ice cold they taste ok (by their standards) but when a more flavorful and more heavily hopped ale or lager are served at that same ice cold temperature they often taste too bitter and their good range of flavors is undetectable to your numbed tongue.
I suspect this is one of the main reasons people try and dislkike craft beers. They get them too cold. That is a big problem here in Florida where frozen glasses are the norm.
So start around 50F as a general rule. Darker beers like Porter and Stout I prefer in around 60F but if you start at 50 F it's a good catch all temp and gives the beer time to warm and offer different flavors. I belive the wine term is "open up" and beer will open up as it warms.
These 8 beers may not change your mind, but hopefully they will open your eyes and you will give beer another chance. You do like beer...you just have to keep trying till you find the ones you like. www.ratebeer.com is another great site to check out for beer info and a knowledgeable beer community.
66 - Alex
Seriously, why do beer drinkers even entertain the naive and conceited that seem to think a Stout, Belgian beer, and Budweiser all taste the same?
Let them live their drab anti-depressant soaked lives in cluelessness, we don't need em.
67 - JJ
okay..I will replace the Orval with the St. Bernardus
68 - Jim
Please make sure to treat your beer tasting exactly as you would any wine tasting. I have URL'd BeerAdvocate's guide for reviewing beer (next to my name), just in case there may be different guidelines to look/prepare for between wine and beer. Just make sure to cleanse between beers: nothing ruins a beer tasting more than a tainted palate.
69 - Errrrrrrrr
Bravo! well chosen, diverse selection of beers. I'll echo everyone else with the 50-55 degree serving temp. And just add that for me, a nice red burgundy glass works great for evaluating beer, I rarely ever use a pint glass. I think we're all looking forward to the results next week.
JonW
70 - RobBeer
I would suggest replacing the Hoegaarden, there is some controversy surrounding this beer. The brand is from a multinational, InBev, which is in the process of closing the brewery that produces it. I would suggest Schneider Aventinus in its place, probably one of the best beers currently produced in Germany.
I would also swap the Orval with Rochefort 10, a very strong, dark beer that should be left until the end.
The Titan IPA/Hopslam Double IPA may be too similar, although I can't say for certain as I have personally only had the Titan.
Rob
71 - Stonch
Yes, you really are ignorant about beer, but I don't feel the need to beat you up about it. You can visit countless websites right now (including my humble blog) to learn more, then you can try some great beers, then you can write another article explaining why you were wrong. Cheers!
72 - Stonch
Rob, don't ever tell anyone to swap the Orval! ;-)
73 - Ryan
In reply to RobBeer, the Orval has been replaced by the St. Bernardus 12. This is the list right now:
Saison DuPont
St. Bernardus 12
Goose Island Nut Brown Ale
Titan IPA
Hoegaarden
Ridgeline Amber Ale
HopSlam
74 - Tree
kudos to your openmindedness. you are entitled to like wine, but you did come across heavy handed in a bias against beer.
i drank beer from 13 to 18, and then, i decided "hey, i don't like beer!", and stopped.
a few years ago (i'm in my late 30s now), i decided to make bratwurst in beer, despite not liking beer. lo and behold, i tried the beer, and liked it.
i've since realized that the beers i drank in my teenage years were awful, awful beers, and i had never had good beer.
in the past couple of years, i've tried numerous beers in a quest to quench my new beerlust. and it is a wonderful experience. i've learned what i don't like (not to fond of super hoppy beers) and what i love (mmmm, porters)..
i do urge you to hit up the beeradvocate.com website. it's opened my eyes to proper temperatures, the right types of glasses, and different styles of beers.
again, kudos for your willingness to give a new breed of beer a try.
75 - The village idiot
Since Im not a conisoir of fine wine I stock my styrofoam cooler with Bud and MD20. The folks at my trailer park like it. If you drink enough MD you get a sophisticated feeling. That's when we head over to big Bertha's single wide for the fried chicken, Elvis sightings, watermelon and watch for alien abductions. Thanks Jennifer for an excellent blog. Gave up MD20 years ago. Of course should I ever find myself homeless and live on the streets MD would be my kind of wine.