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Suspending Fifth Grader For Anti-Obama Shirt Is Ridiculous

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So, now the left is trying to limit speech by suspending fifth graders? Really? Daxx Dalton, an 11-year-old living in Colorado, wore a homemade anti-Obama shirt. The shirt had Obama with a veto sign and read: “Obama: A Terrorist's Best Friend.” The shirt was made especially for patriotism day, where all students were encouraged to wear red, white, and blue.

After it caused a heated discussion during recess, Daxx’s school told him to turn the shirt inside out or he would be suspended. Daxx decided to be suspended. “They’re taking away my right of freedom of speech,” Daxx said. “If I have the right to wear this shirt I’m going to use it. And if the only way to use it is get suspended, then I’m going to get suspended.” A very knowing statement for a fifth grader.

His father, a Republican, told FOX News, “It’s the public school system. Let’s be honest, it’s full of liberal loons. I didn’t expect (my son) to get what he got, that was ridiculously uncalled for.”

The school’s only statement was that the district “respects a student’s right to free speech, such as the right to wear specific clothing.”

Now, I live in a very liberal town and I am taking AP Government and almost everyone is liberal. If I wear a McCain shirt, nobody cares. I see a ton of Obama shirts and I don’t get upset. It’s called freedom of speech, something this Colorado district doesn’t seem to understand.

Freedom of speech is the first amendment and it’s my favorite. I like being able to say Obama’s an idiot and will ruin our country and know I’m not going to be shot. Knowing that freedom of speech is being violated for a little innocent boy that has done nothing wrong, well, that pisses me off.

This boy has done nothing wrong. He has a right to freedom of speech and to wear that shirt. I hope this goes to court, because this boy does not deserve a suspension. Or we can just throw the whole constitution out the window.

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About Maddy

  • Cannonshop

    Actually, they do-they have for a very long time. I remember when I was in school, they made a point of banning “beer” shirts (budweiser, coors, etc. etc), or shirts with offensive logos. This looks like more of the same to me-the logo was offensive to the Principal and the Staff, so the kid was punished.

  • Joanne Huspek

    Thank goodness my kids went to schools where there was a uniform. It took the guesswork out of being politically incorrect.

  • 1%

    Sure, schools ban clothing all the time. Not only alcohol advertising, but anything that could possibly be “gang-affiliated.” For example, at my school in San Antonio, teens associated with Mexican Mafia would wear Mickey Mouse clothing with the letters “MM” on them. This led to many fights. Thus, the school would expel people for wearing Disney clothing. There were many other examples. Come to think about it, political parties are a lot like gangs, eh? (“The gang and the government are no different…”)

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    I anxiously await the “McCain Means More Homework” hoodie.

  • charlie doherty

    Maddy, obviously this kid did something “wrong” by linking Obama to terrorists, thereby questioning his patriotism. Your point at the end should be that the 5th grader did nothing “illegal” and should not have been suspended. And I agree.

    But you should also agree then that the Juneau, Alaska high school kids who carried a “Bong hits for Jesus” sign across the street from his school should not have been suspended either and that the Supreme Court should not have supported that school’s decision to punish the kids. Both are issues of free speech, right Maddy?

  • hall monitor

    This story made Detention Slip! Check it out for all the crazy headlines from our schools.

  • Lee Richards

    Schools, by necessity, operate under some different rules than society at large. For example, they need only “reasonable suspicion” rather than probable cause to search a student’s possessions for something illegal or dangerous.

    Schools may ban clothing, etc. for language or images that they believe may be disruptive to the learning process. There are no unlimited rights to freedom of speech or anything else under our Constitution. The courts have ruled on this issue, school dress codes, etc.

    Maybe the kid and his parent will learn a few constitutional facts from this incident.

  • Heloise

    Are you a public school teacher or administrator? No, didn’t think so. Well, I am. And guess what there is no freedom in public school. A student is not free to wear clothing that will cause disruption to the learning environment, nor wear shirts that Extols the virtue of: drugs, racism, drinking, violence (although they seem to pass on this one. Many students wear the rocker black look and skulls and crap on their shirts and get away with it) sex or is otherwise disruptive in a school setting.

    Regardless to whom I support if I saw a problem T shirt or students getting upset over a T shirt I would turn the student in to administration and/or ask him to turn it around or find something else to wear, as reported. THAT is SOP in a public school. If they were wearing a uniform same diff. I understand it was some sort of free day. Too bad, the kid should have been suspended. Black kids get suspended for looking the wrong way. A kid brought a gun and ammo to a middle school here!

    Heloise

  • Cindy D

    I support Obama and I support the right of Dax Dalton to wear that shirt.

    I have read of suspensions for hairstyles (because they would ostensibly disrupt something).

    That shirt was an invitation to teach. An opportunity to learn debate.

    Be “patriotic” by “our” standards, take the “soma”, swallow the “blue pill”.

    Children aren’t disruptive simply because wear some shirt their neo-nazi dad dressed them in. A learning opportunity was missed.

  • Cindy D

    Heloise I hope you like SOP, it’s how the entire country’s run.

    I find your stated reaction an example of one of the problems with our schools.

  • Cindy D

    Maddy,

    I commend you for your article.

    My nephew recently said, he wouldn’t vote for anyone for president, because the time people get to be adults they forget what’s important.

    School should be a place where such an intrusion into the mind-numbing curriculum is welcomed and used as an opportunity for everyone to learn.

  • Cindy D

    By the way Maddy, I am on the extreme far left, just so you can factor that into your assessment.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    An eleven-year-old who he thinks he is above the rules is what’s ridiculous and so is this article. Daxx, Maddy, and editor Dave Nalle have proven they obviously don’t understand freedom of speech or the First Amendment.

    He doesn’t a right to wear that shirt at school and notice in your article that this brat was asked to reverse his shirt after a heated discussion at recess not when he arrived on school grounds.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    I absolutely support the kids right to wear this in public. I support him wearing it in school. If there was a legitimate disruption, however, the school was correct in asking him to turn it inside out. If I was the administrator, I would have tried to teach the offended student how to express his objections to the shirt appropriately. If this ultimately failed, and there was fighting breaking out over the shirt, then I would have done the same thing the school did.

    And the school absolutely does have the right to do what it did. I’d just love to see the kid try and sue. It would get thrown out in a heartbeat. Those who are saying this was a violation of his free speech don’t know what they are talking about. Every single day thousands of kids are told to limit the way they express themselves in school. Why do you people find this ONE case the only objectionable one?

    Come on Maddy, you’re in High School. I just graduated. We both know that, these days, kids are regularly told to limit their range of expression. I have been asked to change the way I dress in HS. I’m sure you have too. Almost every girl in my HS was told their skirt was too short at some point. Why can’t they express their slutinness in school? Because it’s a distraction. When your actions affect those of your peers, it is can be governed. Standard interpretation of the the first amendment and the entire Constitution. You should know this. You’re in AP Government yes? I can’t believe you haven’t learned how our legal system interprets the 1st amendment yet.

    If you want to go against centuries and centuries of legal interpretation, and even against the intentions of our founding fathers, feel free to present an argument for YOUR interpretation of the 1st amendment…

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Come on Maddy, you see this shit everyday at your own school.. have you spoken out in defense of slutiness at your school? In defense of my right to express support for my favorite baseball team by wearing a b-ball cap? (GO RED SOX!!!!) That’s what I thought. You know this article is ridiculous and you know FOX is ridiculous for making an issue out of a standard disciplinary issue which happens thousands of times a day.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    If you actually had the GUTS to stand up for all the other repressed right to free speech that happens in public schools I would have been impressed. I might actually be with you. Instead you chose to write a politically motivated stunt piece based off ‘news’ from a politically motivated corporation.

  • Condor

    Yet another sound reason for school uniforms.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Yet another sound reason for school uniforms.

    That’s repression of free speech too let me remind you.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Good Grief, Maddy. That’s not free speech.
    You can thank Homeland Security for that. Ever been to an airport? He used the word Terrorist.

    I doubt he would have been banned from wearing the shirt had he just had a Support McCain shirt, or a Support Obama shirt. Perhaps you should do a little more research?

    OTOH Schools DO have rules about what kids can and cannot wear. Those rules are called dress codes. Most schools have them. They make sense. No spaghetti strap shirts, no short shorts, no bike chains, no low slung pants showing underwear, no shirts with drug or alcohol slogans, etc.

    Just like in the Real World, people in offices wear decent clothes, or uniforms, depending on the work they do. Women do not wear certain things to work in an office, nor do men, ie., flip flops, ball caps, low cut blouses, shorts.

    I think sometimes you are very young in your approach.

    Schools are places of learning. I MUST disagree with those of you who support a shirt like this.

    Some time ago, a man was on school property giving out the New Testament. I protested to the principal. He had the man stand across the street OFF school property. THat was fine.

    THere is NO smoking on school property, no drinking, no handing out of political literature. All of that seems to make sense.

    None of this has anything to do with political incorrectness, Joanne.

    Or free speech, Cindy. I usually agree with you, but I am afraid, in this case, you are mistaken.

    I think people have forgotten that some rules make sense, and that dress and behavior codes for schools and work places make a lot of sense.

    Maddy, please give some thought to all of this….It is really an important concept to get a grasp of. The Constitution is too important to get wrong:)

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Agree with Lisa

    Research current legal interpretations of the 1st amendment and write an article for or against them. THAT would be impressive.

  • CallmeMaddy

    Personally, I could care less if kids dress slutty or whatever. Doesn’t bother me. I’m against school uniforms. They are dumb. I’m sorry.

    School dress code isn’t enforced well at my school.

    Everything I’ve learned tells me this is a limit on free speech.

    That’s all,
    Maddy

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    And where did you learn the eleven-year-olds have an unlimited right to free speech?

  • steve from CT

    As a die-hard conservative, typically I would be rooting for such a statement. When it comes down to it; just let a kid be a kid. He should be more worried about the Colorado Rapids FC, Colorado Rockies baseball, or even Denver Broncos football…maybe begin to get curious about girls…ride his bike, etc etc.
    Politics should not be a part of an eleven year old’s life. I saw the interview with the father and son…he is totally brainwashed. His words weren’t his…might be freedom of speech…not a freedom of information for sure. He was simply repeating the rhetoric he hears everyday from his father.
    This whole case was a ploy by the father to earn his 15 mins of fame…What do you know…sure as shit he was there with his camo gear, goatee and lack of public speaking ability. What he DID do was lampoon the stereotype of what democRATS say conservatives look and sound like. Nice job buddy.

  • Cannonshop

    Well, Steve, consider this: if the School lets kids walk around in che guevara tee-shirts (like the schools around here do), then it’s misapplication and an injustice (the school system taking sides in an argument). On the other hand, if it’s a “No Politics” rule in the school, and enforced evenly, then the School’s in the right.

    It’s simple, really-what are the rules, and are they enforced evenly?

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    I actually sorta agree with the school here. That’s a rather inflammatory message on the kid’s shirt, and as such it’s necessarily going to cause a disruption.

    School is for learning, not for political propagandizing. The school offered him the (reasonable, in my opinion) option of just turning the shirt inside-out. He refused. Therefore, he faces a minor punishment.

    I don’t believe the First Amendment is in any danger because of this. The “Fairness Doctrine,” on the other hand … :-/

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    “Thank goodness my kids went to schools where there was a uniform. It took the guesswork out of being politically incorrect.”

    Yup. I support school uniforms (although naturally I was opposed the idea when I was actually going to school…).

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ Elliott

    “I think sometimes you are very young in your approach.”

    Well, that would be because she’s very young. (Good guess!)

    Hell, I’m frankly impressed that a 17-year old high school student is taking time out of her day to think – and to write – about these issues. The fact that she’s wrong (in my opinion) does not take away from the fact that she’s engaged in the important issues of the day.

    We need more young people like her, as opposed to the masses of mindless sheeple who merely parrot whatever the MSM tells them is the “correct” viewpoint on a particular topic.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Personally, I could care less if kids dress slutty or whatever. Doesn’t bother me. I’m against school uniforms. They are dumb. I’m sorry.

    School dress code isn’t enforced well at my school.

    Everything I’ve learned tells me this is a limit on free speech.

    That’s all,
    Maddy

    Maddy,

    It is a limit on free speech but what we’re saying is you and the rest of the world have limited free speech thousands of times before based on the same principle being used here – it’s disruptive of someone else’s right to learn. Your school may not enforce the dress code strictly, but surely you must have heard of dozens of times a student’s expression is limited because it’s disruptive. Why weren’t you outraged then? And doesn’t your article present an argument against ALL forms of dress codes in school?

  • Cannonshop

    PETI, you don’t have a “Right To Learn”. (at least, I can’t find it in the founding documents at Federal, or state, level). You have a “RESPONSIBILITY” to Learn, and schools have a responsibility to teach- but that doesn’t mean either student, or teacher, carries through in their responsibilities. The Schools have the obligation to provide a structured environment to attempt to carry out their responsibilities to the students, and are often granted the right to create that environment. (not always. Much of what’s wrong in public schools today comes from lawsuits that attack the school’s authority to impose rules, witness the popularity of suits attacking the Pledge of Allegiance.)

    Ideally, schools should not be about political indoctrination, however… I’m related to two examples of why that’s not so in real life, and see them often enough to know it’s not just an act to screw with uncle’s mind.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    An eleven-year-old who he thinks he is above the rules is what’s ridiculous and so is this article. Daxx, Maddy, and editor Dave Nalle have proven they obviously don’t understand freedom of speech or the First Amendment.

    Woah, EB. How am I to blame for publishing this article? Whether free speech is a legitimate issue in schools or not, we do try to practice it here on BC, and Maddy has as much right as any other writer here to have her opinion, which she has expressed cogently, published for others to discuss.

    I don’t have to agree with her to agree that she has the right to express herself here, and I often publish things which I don’t agree with and do it happily.

    In this case I think she raises an absolutely valid issue and one which in which I think both sides have strong arguments.

    I think the administration position as represented by Heloise’s earlier comment is reprehensible. But it will teach kids the vital early lesson that those in power will take away your rights for their convenience. It’s probably one of the few lessons these kids will remember from their time in public school.

    Heloise and the administrators at the school in question also demonstrate how bankrupt they are as educators, that they took this relatively innocuous t-shirt and chose to react the way that they did when they could have reacted by using it as an educational opportunity as several others have suggested. It’s a sad commentary on the institutional rigidity of our educational system that they cannot respond to a situation like this in some more creative way.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Come to think of it, I find the school’s sponsorship of a ‘patriot day’ where kids wear red white and blue in some sort of hollow patriotic ritual to be almost as offensive as suppressing the wearing of this t-shirt.

    Dave

  • Arch Conservative

    I’d bet a year’s salary that every person at that school who had a hand in making the decision to suspend this kid is going to vote for Obama this November.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Well, then, Maddy, you haven’t learned enough.

    This is NOT a free speech issue. AND you opened your piece by blaming the LEFT. Which was disingenuous of you. As if it were censorship by them.

    If the school rules aren’t enforced acros the board, then THAT is the issue you should be writing about.

    And whether or not it bothers you if kids dress slutty or not is not the issue here or not.

    Ie., what bothers you is not the issue.

    Do some more work. Talk to the administration. Find out what issues were at work for them. Don’t just report on a report. Dig. That is what being a journalist is about.

    Don’t let your own prejudices, or what you think you know get in the way of that is really the issue here.

  • Cindy D

    Lisa,

    I’m thinking about what you said. I obviously hate the message on the shirt. That can’t weigh on my opinion though.

    As a teacher, if I saw such a reprehensible slogan on a shirt, I would have used it to open a discussion about free speech.

    I see you trying to teach Maddy something about this. That’s good. However, her school had the opportunity to do this very thing. Instead they taught her that if you have power you can simply force other people to do what you think is right.

    Maddy has learned enough about what our country is supposed to stand for to actually believe she has rights. She hasn’t yet been jaded by the repeated experience that the “utopian” image she has been fed doesn’t hold up in the real world. It’s just a ruse to put tears in her eyes when someone plays the star spangled banner.

    The shirt is not allowed because it is said to be a distraction. The question is, what is more of a distraction, the kid wearing the shirt or the brouhaha caused by the school’s handling of the situation?

    These are not grade school children. They are young adults who are soon going to be expected to live among adults in the “land of the free”. I wonder how they will do that without having had any actual experience with democracy.

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com david Black

    “Don’t let your own prejudices, or what you think you know get in the way of that is really the issue here.”

    Prejudices, my ass, the nitwits on the left have Bush bashed for the last eight years, call him a chimp, a nazi, whatever, and you’ve never offered one word of rebuke, you or anyone else on the left.

    You people are just as vile and vicious as those on the right you point fingers at.

    Why do I know this? I only have to read your holy scriptures at the HuffPo and the dailykos.

    If a kid had shown up at their school with a caricature of Bush as a chimp you’d be laughing your ass off, but because the target this time is your Black Messiah, you get your knickers in a twist.

    Further proof that libs are among the biggest frauds on the planet.

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com david Black

    “Come to think of it, I find the school’s sponsorship of a ‘patriot day’ where kids wear red white and blue in some sort of hollow patriotic ritual to be almost as offensive as suppressing the wearing of this t-shirt.”

    Not a very conservative view, there, Dave.

    Nationalism is a cornerstone of conservatism.

  • Cindy D

    Oops, so bad of me. Okay. Well. 5th grade. I guess they ARE grade school children. I have been thinking the boy was Maddy’s peer.

    I would still discuss the shirt. I’m not sure about letting him wear it. “I’m not sure” would mean: it would depend on the circumstances. I hate saying that.

    I in no way would miss the opportunity for discussion though. I wonder how an opportunity for real learning, in real life, presents itself, yet administrators see this as a distraction. Children are quite reasonable when allowed to be. It is deplorable that schools never inspire this.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    The Constitution applies to those on the left and the right.
    Maddy made assumptions based on Fox news reports.

    She didn’t do her homework.

  • Clavos

    Maddy, your article is clearly labeled as an Opinion piece.

    As such, you are (as I’m sure you know) under no obligation to present anything more than the opinion you are promulgating.

    Of course, if you do so clumsily, your piece will be attacked and possibly refuted by those who disagree.

    Your article is an editorial. If you want the thoughts you express in it to convince your readership to come around to your way of thinking, then you must present your arguments in a convincing fashion.

    There is no requirement in editorial writing to be balanced, or even to present opposing viewpoints, except as, in your judgment, they bolster your own point. Just remember that, if your argument isn’t strong enough, those who disagree will find the weaknesses and exploit them to refute your point.

    But you already knew that.

  • http://marksaleski.com Mark Saleski

    i’ve never agreed with school rules about things like this, mostly because it seems like the enforcement causes more disruption than the supposed problem item in question.

    for me, the saddest part of this story is that an 11 yr old kid wants to wear such a shirt, or that his parent (more likely) put him up to it.

  • Ruvy

    Welcome to Israel, Maddy. The kinds of shit you see the “left” doing in your country is exactly whgat they do here. A kid wearing a shirt thaq says “no Arabs – no terror” or “Kahane was right” will be arrested as fast as a cop or Shabaknik sees him. And he will be held without bail as a national security threat!

    The problem is that it is not the “left” that is the problem in your country – it is a core elite that thinks that kids like you are not equal to them, and that they have the right to decide what is good and bad for you (and your elders as well).

    Your freedom is rapidly eroding, and you are unfortunate to see it with your own eyes. I’ll tell you what my mother told me when I saw Kennedy killed.

    “I hope you do not see more of this in your lifetime.”

  • Marlowe

    Maddy…

    First off Maddy… GO STEELERS! Of course we won’t discuss their pathetic display against Philly last week…

    There are times when the question arises – legitimately, over First Amendment rights for minors. This isn’t one of them.

    Let’s step completely away from first, the issue of a school child wearing the shirt and just look at the message of the shirt itself: OBAMA: A TERRORIST’S BEST FRIEND. This accusation is just short of being liable. In essence it IS saying, OBAMA SUPPORTS TERRORISTS WHO WISH TO KILL AMERICANS AND DESTROY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

    Which is essentially saying OBAMA IS GUILTY OF HIGH TREASON. Let’s see what our Constitution (which is, after all, at the heart of this discussion) says about this matter of treason:

    “Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. (Article III, Sec., 3)

    Now, let’s see what the U.S. Code says about the punishment for treason:

    S 2381. Treason
    Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

    That’s a lot to accuse someone of.. A lot of facts that would have to be sifted through to ascertain this, isn’t it? Sounds like accusing someone, essentially of TREASON is a serious matter, isn’t it?

    And we’re supposed to think that a 12 year old came to these conclusions on their own?

    Let’s stop being disingenuous. There’s no “issue” of Free Speech here. This is a pathetic set up by parents who should be publicly mocked for shamelessly using their child as a political shill. There’s the real crime.

    Of course, dad, a Republican – goes running to FOX News cries foul. Four networks available to him and he runs to FOX. I suppose its because that was the first news station he found in the Yellow Pages…

    Perhaps we should save First Amendment discourse for real circumstances where it’s been honestly threatened.

    It is a sad day when parents feel perfectly fine with using their children in this manner.

    What a disgusting example of prejudice, racism, blatant public lies… All with children thrust out into the public eye…

    Reminds me of Palestinian parents thrusting their children toward Israeli soldiers, especially while the cameras of the Western press are running, to see if they can provoke an attack and subsequent international incident.

    Of course we condemn the Palestinian parents that do this… But its OK for American moms and dads to use their children is such a manner.

    There’s no issue of First Amendment “rights” being trampled here. Just school administrators recognizing a child has been used by parents that should be publicly chastised.

    Marlowe

  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/39420/joanne_huspek.html Joanne Huspek

    “None of this has anything to do with political incorrectness, Joanne.”

    I don’t know about that, Lisa. I know plenty of teachers who are aghast at the thought of anything in their hallowed classrooms that is contrary to what they (the teachers) personally believe. They are loathe to introduce the “other” side for consideration. This is in any school situation, from private to public, lower ed to college.

    Sure my kids attended parochial school (my choice, not theirs), but they were wise enough to pipe up when they didn’t agree with teachers. In fact, my son is an atheist and brought up that point of view during religion class regularly. Having a consistent uniform policy went a long way in that it was one less thing to worry about. But that was my aim, and other parents are free to do what they wish.

    Back in my day, our new principal during our senior year wanted to ban sandals, because of his religious convictions. It didn’t last long.

    I forgot the controversy about “Bong Hits for Jesus.” Not appropriate in the Catholic school setting (simply because of the uniform code) but I wouldn’t have banned it or prevented my children from wearing it after school.

    Clav is right; this is an OPINION. Maddy is young, but not too young to voice hers.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    “Come to think of it, I find the school’s sponsorship of a ‘patriot day’ where kids wear red white and blue in some sort of hollow patriotic ritual to be almost as offensive as suppressing the wearing of this t-shirt.”

    Not a very conservative view, there, Dave.

    Nationalism is a cornerstone of conservatism.

    Bull, David. Nationalism and conservatism are completely separate ideas. Forced patriotism is as meaningless as forced religion, and as Roger Williams said, they both “stink in God’s nostrils”.

    Dave

  • David Black

    “OBAMA: A TERRORIST’S BEST FRIEND.”

    A statement grounded in truth. Martin Luther Kennedy is on record as saying he would sit down and conference with that smelly midget that runs Iran.

    You don’t conference with terrorists. You annihilate them.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Clav is right that Maddy is expressing an opinion, but did anyone read the piece? She is expressing an opinion based on a story she saw on Fox news. She did not witness the event, she did not use more than one source, she did not interview anyone, she did no research on her own, she did not ask a Constitutional scholar to explain whether this is a free speech issue, she did not check with the school to find out what the rules were.

    She merely reported on a report.

    That is what Fox news does all the time, which is not, to my way of thinking, good opinion writing.
    And, Joanne, that is what Clav, I think, (and please correct me, Clav, if I am wrong) was alluding to.

    Sure, anyone can HAVE an opinon, but it’s easier to shoot dcown a weak, unsupported one. Which is why I pointed out how young she is. She doesn’t understand the basics about writing a strong opinion piece. And which is why so many people took exception to her free speech “argument.”

    Ruvy and Joanne are wrong: it isn’t about oppression or left or right.

    Even Mark S. (my friend) is wrong. So what if you don’t LIKE the rules. Rules are rules. If kids don’t like them, get up a petition to have them changed and have reasons for it. But don’t just decide to flaunt them.

    Marlowe and those who understand freedom of speech and what it means and what the tee shirt’s message meant get it.

    I tried to explain all that but Maddy doesn’t seem to want to hear it. If she did, her next opinion pieces would be stronger.

    Maddy has a right to think Obama is an idiot and if her school allows it to wear a tshirt supporting McCain. But if she wants to be a credible journalist (she is studying journalism) she would do well to broaden her scope to include reading newspapers from other political viewpoints in order to better hone her own.

  • Arch Conservative

    “Rules are rules?”

    Yeah right. More like “in academia rules are selectively enforced based on one’s political leanings.”

    There’s this story, the one from UMASS Amherst where credit was being given to students who campaigned for Obama and countless other examples of those who are of the left leaning political persuasion being given favorable treatment in our schools.

    Our colleges and universities have become nothing but leftist indoctrination camps and now this practice is making it’s way down to our high schools and grade scools.

    It’s true and anyone that insists on denying it is either doing so because they themselves are a leftist and see it as normal or has is completely ignorant of the situation.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Yeah right. More like “in academia rules are selectively enforced based on one’s political leanings.”

    There’s this story, the one from UMASS Amherst where credit was being given to students who campaigned for Obama and countless other examples of those who are of the left leaning political persuasion being given favorable treatment in our schools.

    Our colleges and universities have become nothing but leftist indoctrination camps and now this practice is making it’s way down to our high schools and grade scools.

    It’s true and anyone that insists on denying it is either doing so because they themselves are a leftist and see it as normal or has is completely ignorant of the situation.

    You obviously have not been to an American University recently. The students are far more liberal/biased than the faculty.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Professors usually end up arguing against the liberal tendencies of their students.

  • David Black

    “You obviously have not been to an American University recently. The students are far more liberal/biased than the faculty.”

    Not true at larger Catholic universities.

    Archcon is essentially right. I recall a poll of university professors done in the last ten ot so years. I believe it was done by the Pew Foundation. It found that 87% of university faculty members voted Democrat.

    That’s as lib as you can get.

    But libs never like to admit how much of an influence they wield. Hell, most of them think of themselves as centrists, that’s how deluded they are.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    In my 25 years in academia my observation was that most professors were far to the left of the mainstream of the Democratic party. There were almost no conservative professors of any kind, except those who were Jesuits or ex-Jesuits. By far the rest were hardcore marxists.

    Dave

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    90 percent of A&S professors, perhaps, are Democrat.

    To which I say: so the hell what? Most learning in college is done independently. Nobody listens to lectures anyways. And most of the profs I had in classes like political science and history made their biases known but kept them in great check.

  • David Black

    “Bull, David. Nationalism and conservatism are completely separate ideas. Forced patriotism is as meaningless as forced religion, and as Roger Williams said, they both “stink in God’s nostrils”.”

    We “force,” as you put it, kids to adopt habits that make them proper citizens.

    That’s part of how kids are taught. It’s simply march or die.

    No one’s forced me to be a nationalist. I just see that it’s the right way to think.

    One should always think their country is better than all others.

    If not, then you sound like a self-hating lib.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    You obviously have not been to a university in the south…. many of them have huge numbers, majorities of, conservative students, and professors of both stripes.

    Please don’t generalize, folks.

    And professors grew more liberal with the late Sixties, which has been, what 40 years? Before that, professors were generally quite conservative, as was the country. You all act like this has been going on for years.

    With the change in politics came more “liberal” in the best, dictionary, sense of the word.

    For Arch, in particular, this was a bad thing. For many students, it opened up new worlds and made them think. After all thinking is what a liberal (in the true, dictionary sense of the word) education is all about, which is why one goes to university (as opposed to a trade school) in the first place.

    On reads a wide variety of texts, thinks, writes, and comes to a wide variety of conclusions.

    If a student really believes a professor is out to get him because of his political beliefs, he has recourse.

    Please read the article about Obama as a professor in the education section of the Sunday Times last week. He was, by all accounts, the right kind of professor: one who accepted any argument, as long as it was WELL argued and supported.

    So many of you are so wedded to your own political agendas that you insist black is white, sometimes. Arch is a perfect example of that. He is sure everyone who doesn’t think like he does is out to get him.

    Arch, grammar schools have dress codes. They are usually enforced. That kid broke the dress code rule. Don’t make it bigger than it is.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Lisa, my observations were based on universities in the south more than anywhere else. Of my 10 years as a student and 20 years teaching college, I did 4 undergrad years in Pennsylvania and 1 year abroad in the UK and the rest was all in Texas at two different schools. And trust me, there’s little difference between the marxists dominating the faculties in Texas vs. anywhere else. If your views are more conservative you learn to work around it. I got through committees in graduate schools with marxist majorities, but they were nice folks in other ways and we more or less kept politics out of it.

    Maybe at more rural schools things are different. Lord knows what goes on at Texas A&I or Angelo State, but they’re out of the mainstream of academic culture as well.


    So many of you are so wedded to your own political agendas that you insist black is white, sometimes.

    Lisa, based on what I’ve read from you, especially some of your comments, this observation applies as much to you as it does to Archie.

    Dave

  • David Black

    I remember a professor declaring to my class that the purpose of a university education was to go out and make a better world for others.

    I raised my hand and asked him “why?”

    He told me that we all had “moral obligations.”

    I asked him where that was regulation was stated and what lawmakers drafted it.

    He said it was based in our “collective cultural history” going back to biblical times.

    To which I said, “I have, as an American, the freedom to decide what my ‘moral obligations’ are.”

    Profs have been ramming their collectivist tripe down students’ throats for years, instead of simply teaching them how to get a great job that earns lots of money.

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “How am I to blame for publishing this article?”

    Because “Freedom of speech is the first amendment” is not correct and you let it through.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    So, you’re somehow holding me accountable for Maddy’s stylistic choice to not include the word ‘in’ in that sentence? I don’t see that the omission of that one word which would make the sentence more technically accurate is unacceptable, and the sentence remains grammatically correct and reasonably factually accurate. You should, perhaps, take up her choice of interpretations on that amendment with her, not me.

    Dave

  • Lee Richards

    #56: “I asked him where that regulation was stated…”

    Maybe he was thinking of some of the basic purposes of our government as stated in the Preamble.

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com david Black

    “Maybe he was thinking of some of the basic purposes of our government as stated in the Preamble.”

    Please cite the part of the preamble of the Constitution where it says I have a personal and moral obligation to be my brother’s keeper.

    What it really says that I approve of Constitutional powers given to my government to take care of that kind of thing for me, if they so choose.

    The then, the Constitution is rife pie-in-the-sky folderol that has little relevance to the realities of living in the 21st century. It’s a convoluted piece of writing that looks great on parchment but at times it seems to me so horribly dated.

    Our founding fathers didn’t anticipate Islamo-fascists flying jets into skyscrapers on suicide missions, for example.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    “promote the general Welfare”

    Dave

  • CallmeMaddy

    Lisa #46:

    With all due respect, you are way out of line telling me to read more papers. I did read much more of the issue. I google searched it; however, all the information cited was included on Fox News, where I originally heard about the story.

    And obviously I do want to hear it, because I am reading every single comment instead of doing my Psych homework, right? And I love Psych. If you think I don’t want to hear it, then why post in the first place.

    And you have no idea how much liberal proganda I am forced to listen to. Let’s start with my gov class where I have the entire class spewing liberal stupidity. Yeah, Sicko isn’t liberal and the War in Iraq is the same thing as the Vietnam. All about oil.

    Give me a break. You don’t know me, so you can’t say I don’t read enough newspapers, because you spimply don’t know. That just makes you sound, well, shallow.

    Ok. I think that’s it.

    Maddy

  • Arch Conservative

    Lisa [personal attack deleted]

    College campuses are for the most part dominated by leftist faculty and administrators who impose their own leftist beliefs on the students and do all that they can to silence and ridicule any thought that is at all right of center.

    It’s a FACT. You can deny it all day long but it is the reality of our higher education system. You’re the one with a ploitical bias and that’s why you cannot see it. To you everything to the left is centrist.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    With all due respect, you are way out of line telling me to read more papers. I did read much more of the issue. I google searched it; however, all the information cited was included on Fox News, where I originally heard about the story.

    Maddy – she didn’t see you don’t read enough. She said you didn’t do enough research for this piece. I agree. You have the facts here but none of your supporting opinion is backed up by any kind of cogent argument about the first amendment. Your opinion would have been made much stronger by backing it up or arguing against the the legal history of the first amendment. As of yet, you have failed to address any of the surrounding case history. As Lisa said, you have just given your personal reaction to a report.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    And you have no idea how much liberal proganda I am forced to listen to. Let’s start with my gov class where I have the entire class spewing liberal stupidity. Yeah, Sicko isn’t liberal and the War in Iraq is the same thing as the Vietnam. All about oil.

    I completely understand. I go to a very liberal school myself. The only thing I hate more than conservative opinions is uninformed liberal opinions. Don’t overreact. If you really do have the correct opinion, you should be able to present a good counter-argument and if you’re really good you will completely embarrass the other student with your knowledge. It’s probably hard in HS because of all the social pressure..

    Give me a break. You don’t know me, so you can’t say I don’t read enough newspapers, because you spimply don’t know. That just makes you sound, well, shallow.

    It’s not that you don’t read it’s just you didn’t draw on any outside knowledge for this particular piece. I would love to see an argument against the many historical legal restrictions that have been placed on free speech by the Supreme Court. I guess you have a right to present just the facts of the FOX article, and your reaction, but your reaction would be much more persuasive if it took into account all the other ways in which free speech has been limited, especially in schools.

    And obviously I do want to hear it, because I am reading every single comment instead of doing my Psych homework, right? And I love Psych.

    HW is never an excuse for BC!!!!!! πŸ˜‰

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption


    Not true at larger Catholic universities.

    Archcon is essentially right. I recall a poll of university professors done in the last ten ot so years. I believe it was done by the Pew Foundation. It found that 87% of university faculty members voted Democrat.

    That’s as lib as you can get.

    But libs never like to admit how much of an influence they wield. Hell, most of them think of themselves as centrists, that’s how deluded they are.

    Just because they vote with the more liberal party doesn’t mean they teach it. And I would wager an even higher percent of college students vote Democratic at least at some schools!

  • Zedd

    As a mom of kids that are school age and a person who read the Code of Conduct that they pass out every year, kids are not allowed to wear t-shirts with political, religious, offensive or controversial messages.

    If you know kids, you know that they are not as civil as most adults. It’s difficult keeping the schools orderly without some kid walking around saying something that is intentionally inflammatory.

    Kids in school don’t have free speech. They cant curse at their teachers and generally freely express their views about things. School would be chaotic.

    I like the fact that you wrote this piece because you are young and I hope you keep it up. I think your personal views will change with time.

    My response wasn’t to you but the adults who commented.

  • Zedd

    Dave,

    Is this your daughter?

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    To which I said, “I have, as an American, the freedom to decide what my ‘moral obligations’ are.”

    Profs have been ramming their collectivist tripe down students’ throats for years, instead of simply teaching them how to get a great job that earns lots of money.

    Actually you don’t. You can’t decide that not murdering is not a moral obligation. And even so, you only have a legitimate complaint if when you wrote a well argued paper and had your grade reduced for having different conclusions than the Professor. I have never seen that happen in 2 years of college.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Nope. She only writes about fashion and design and she writes fiction. Well, I guess political t-shirts sort of fall in that category, but it’s not her. Her one and only BC article is on picking jeans. Right now she’s up in her room working on some sort of collaborative fiction project.

    Dave

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    College campuses are for the most part dominated by leftist faculty and administrators who impose their own leftist beliefs on the students and do all that they can to silence and ridicule any thought that is at all right of center.

    It’s a FACT. You can deny it all day long but it is the reality of our higher education system. You’re the one with a ploitical bias and that’s why you cannot see it. To you everything to the left is centrist.

    Completely off base here Arch. I had a professor last year who laughed a few kids out of the room for arguing Bush should be impeached (which is a fairly mainstream view among the left).

    And actually college do a lot to foster counter viewpoints. Obviously they can’t help what kind of person comes to the school. But on my campus at least, the college republicans group is more vocal the the college democrats group. The administration stood up for the Republicans to post images around campus depicting a series of pictures of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims against America. Some students objected that it was spreading hate for Muslims (not one of the 10 or so attacks was committed by a non-Muslim) but the administration stood by the College Republican’s right to post the posters on campus. Needless to say, many were vandalized by the liberal student body which contains many Muslims.

    The college newspaper contains one column by a republican and one by a democrat, although most of the other op-eds people write in on politics are by liberals.

    The most important speaker to visit my college during my time here was Chief Justice John Roberts. The administration was clearly opposed to the protesting which occurred because it was disruptive. Roberts was a brilliant speaker by the way. We also had Bill Clinton I guess but I’m not sure he’s as important these days..

    My political science professor right now is exceedingly careful to give objective analysis. He refuses to vote or participate in politics to reduce his allegiance to any one candidate. He has angered some of my liberal friends with a centrist interpretation of events. And he has mocked both parties and all past presidents exceedingly. He told the class on the first day that any student who can reveal any bias in his teaching will receive an automatic A.

    I could keep going…

  • Zedd

    Good for her. You must be proud.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Is that an insult? A little harsh don’t ya think?

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com david Black

    “promote the general Welfare”

    Uh, Dave, that’s not my personal responsibility, never has been, never will. You can’t tell me otherwise.

    Unfortunately, it’s been misconstrued by hand wringing bleeding heart lib pols to mean pissing away money on the decrepit underclasses who aren’t intelligent enough to prosper by their own wits.

    Are you sure you’re a conservative, Dave?

    Really, how much of a conservative could one be if a bunch of handwringing bleeding heart libs finds that person acceptable to talk to?

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    “promote the general Welfare”

    Uh, Dave, that’s not my personal responsibility, never has been, never will. You can’t tell me otherwise.

    Unfortunately, it’s been misconstrued by hand wringing bleeding heart lib pols to mean pissing away money on the decrepit underclasses who aren’t intelligent enough to prosper by their own wits.

    Are you sure you’re a conservative, Dave?

    Really, how much of a conservative could one be if a bunch of handwringing bleeding heart libs finds that person acceptable to talk to?

    Actually, I would call promoting the general welfare a highly nationalistic ideology.

    Dave never said you have to give handouts. But it is the govt’s responsibility to pursue the policy which is best for America as a whole. That might not extend far beyond signing free trade deals, or it might extend as far as redistributing wealth, depending on your economic theory.

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com david Black

    “That might not extend far beyond signing free trade deals, or it might extend as far as redistributing wealth, depending on your economic theory.”

    Anything that generates $$$ is a good thing.

    Pissing away money on underclasses generates NO profit.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Yeah, what PETI said. And I’m fiscally conservative, if that counts for anything.

    Dave

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com david Black

    If that’s what Dave Nalle meant by “promoting welfare,” then I don’t have to call into question his conservative cred.

    Although I still have to wonder why a conservative would want to be accepted by libs.

    After all, they are the enemy, just like Islamo-fascists are the enemy.

  • Pablo

    Mr. Black I just want you to know that I for one really enjoy reading your rants. In fact I am smiling right now as I have just read one of them. :)

    I wonder if you ever take the time when you are alone, and actually read what you write, you know when your in a reflective mood, kind of like looking in the mirror bubba. I wonder what you see? Can you share?

  • Pablo

    re 63

    “College campuses are for the most part dominated by leftist faculty and administrators who impose their own leftist beliefs on the students and do all that they can to silence and ridicule any thought that is at all right of center.”

    If that is true, and it very well may be, the reason is obvious. Most uhhhm intelligent people do no subscribe to right wing fascist idealogy. It is simply a reflecton on the fact that they are educated, and uhhhm use their brain bubba!

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    If that is true, and it very well may be, the reason is obvious. Most uhhhm intelligent people do no subscribe to right wing fascist idealogy. It is simply a reflecton on the fact that they are educated, and uhhhm use their brain bubba!

    While I’d like to believe this true.. there are many very intelligent conservative thinkers within and outside academia…

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Although I still have to wonder why a conservative would want to be accepted by libs.

    I hardly think Dave is searching for acceptance by me or anyone else on this board. He’s just [sometimes] a reasonable guy πŸ˜€

  • http://www.maskedmoviesnobs.com El Bicho

    “Anything that generates $$$ is a good thing.”

    Like crime?

  • Cindy D

    Who said Dave wants to be accepted by liberals?

    Dave defends what he believes in. He doesn’t seem to pay attention to being accepted.

    It’s just that he’s actually a member of the human race. He doesn’t have a black heart full of slime.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Why thanks, Cindy.

    And Black, I don’t have a problem with liberals.

    But I don’t think there are a hell of a lot of actual liberals left in the American left.

    Dave

  • Whatever

    I don’t support Obama for president, but the shirt is offensive – linking Obama to terrorists. Would you support a kid wearing a racist T-shirt?

    Schools can limit what people wear. As the first commenter noted, kids cannot wear shirts with beer slogans on them to school. I’m sure they can’t wear shirts with offensive language either.

    The right to free speech doesn’t apply to every situation. It means the government can’t put you in jail for saying Obama is a friend of terrorists. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can say whatever you want, wherever you are and no one can get mad at you. It just means you can’t be arrested for it.

  • robbieZZ

    If this is about free speech I’ll have my 11-year old daughter wear a Hooters T-Shirt to school.

    Point is, free speech can be offensive especially where 11-year olds are concerned. It would be different on a college campus.
    I do not think the boy should have been suspended but I think he should have been sent home or spent the day in the principal’s office until he parents could come and get him after work, that is, if they work.

  • Zedd

    David Black
    #56

    You are too old to still be in 7th grade mode. You mean in college you were embarrassing yourself with stupid comments not knowing that you were missing the point all together.

    What your professor was saying is that the reason that institutions of learning are established and supported by the people is because your knowledge is an asset to society. States (the people) invest greatly in education. The learned improve society. From a philosophical stand point it is your moral obligation to give back to the society that has invested in you. He was responding from that stand point and you were being a child simply yapping back with no real desire to get to what is the sensible in the proposition.

  • Arch Conservative

    How rich….a bunch of lefties telling me that most colleges and universities aren’t dominated by intolerant leftists.

    I guess when the socialist shithead club at Columbia attacked the stage at Columbia University after the Minutmen had been invited to speak it was a prime example of how intellectually superior liberal lefties are.

    Or maybe a better example is when several lefty faculty members at Boston College threateneed to resign if Condaleezxa Rice came there to speak.

    The there’s the case of the intelligient lefties at Harvard who used their brains to drum up some politically correct bullshit reason to make LArry Summers resign after he had the umitigated gall to refer to scientific studies which suggested that men and women’s brains process information differently and that this may possibley explain discrepencies in performances on science and math tests among the sexes.

    For everyone of you moonbats who has some personal anecdote about how fair the debate on our campuses is I can rebut with 20 cases that are actually true and have been documented that show how intolerant and close minded the lefties that run most universities are.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Maddy
    Your defensiveness is overwhelming although I am, honored, I guess that mine were the only comments you responded to. I see that you did not choose to respond to all you called you on the free specch question.

    I will say that is should have told you something when you googled and all roads led back to Fox.

    THAT is not doing research, just to google. I have children, too, and I tell them that all the time.

    And, if all the links led back to one source that should tell you something: there was no STORY. It was just Fox making a mountain out of a molehill. An irate father pissed at the school for suspending his son for breaking the rules and Fox getting on its high horse: no free speech issue there.

    I am sorry you feel beleagured by liberals. You live, obviously, in a place where you feel like there are less of “you” than “them.” You could move here and you would be in the majority!

    To quote you:

    Ok. I think that’s it.

    Lisa

  • http://meetdavidblack.blogspot.com David Black

    Maddie: Don’t be cowed by these liberal morons who take their marching orders from the HuffPo and the dailykos.

    Just remember that libs are degenerate loving LOSERS and always have been.

    “I will say that is should have told you something when you googled and all roads led back to Fox.

    (yawn)

  • Cindy D

    RE#86 and #87

    ouch, and ouch

    sometimes it takes a good mental picture to give one perspective

    i was wrong and reactionary to first support the wearing of the shirt.

    although discussing it would still be in my agenda. my own style with children is generally to allow them to grow by making choices based on reason rather than to force them to do or believe something.

    simply forcing people to do what we want has never seemed to inspire much except rebellion and what is commonly called “the generation gap”

    my experience shows that children respond to respect. and what they learn by the way we treat them, is directly related to the way they treat others.

    schools have a bully problem and that problem, is never out of my awareness whenever i consider a solution related to school problems. because children aren’t born bullies.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    And Maddy, if you read any of David’s posts and take him as your mentor, you will grow up to be a misogynist racist who is friendless and horribly unhappy….. so please don’t.

  • Jordan Richardson

    If that kid’s allowed to wear the Obama shirt, this kid should be allowed to wear this one.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Jordan, that site was forbidden to me for some reason….
    OTOH hand, he WASN’T allowed to wear that shirt.
    I don’t know what school rules are like in Canada, but that is all the issue it was. It was made into a free speech issue by Fox, which it wasn’t at all….

  • Jordan Richardson

    It was a picture of a chubby kid wearing a rather obscene shirt.

    I don’t know what school rules are like in Canada

    We have schools?

    I think we’re all forgetting the real issue here, though: who the hell names their kid Daxx?

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    How rich….a bunch of lefties telling me that most colleges and universities aren’t dominated by intolerant leftists.

    I guess when the socialist shithead club at Columbia attacked the stage at Columbia University after the Minutmen had been invited to speak it was a prime example of how intellectually superior liberal lefties are.

    Or maybe a better example is when several lefty faculty members at Boston College threateneed to resign if Condaleezxa Rice came there to speak.

    The there’s the case of the intelligient lefties at Harvard who used their brains to drum up some politically correct bullshit reason to make LArry Summers resign after he had the umitigated gall to refer to scientific studies which suggested that men and women’s brains process information differently and that this may possibley explain discrepencies in performances on science and math tests among the sexes.

    For everyone of you moonbats who has some personal anecdote about how fair the debate on our campuses is I can rebut with 20 cases that are actually true and have been documented that show how intolerant and close minded the lefties that run most universities are.

    That hardly amounts to the generalization you are trying to make. I cited just as many examples of conservative measures taken by the administration/faculty at my campus alone in post 71. I would venture to say a very large portion of the student body here feels the administration is too conservative and represses their liberal ideology. (I’m using conservative and liberal rather loosely here obviously).

  • Cindy D

    Arch,

    Your lefty, socialist buddy Prez Bush called the Minutemen a group of vigilantes and does not support armed private citizens patrolling the border.

  • mandy

    This kid shouldnt have been able to wear this shirt. All this was, was the parents views. What year is this? Oh yeah 2008.I thought that we trying to teach our children to not be racist biggots. This man was a pour excuse for a good father to let his child wear this to school. We need to be educating these children on politics and how to vote in the future so that they might have one.

  • Arch Conservative

    So anyone that isn’t on the obama bandwagon is a racist bigot MAndy?

    Maybe you’d be better off posting on the daily kos where they’d be more receptive to you [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor].

  • Cindy D

    Arch maybe you need some remedial reading classes.

    How’d you do on those standardized tests where they ask you to explain what the text you read means?

  • Arch Conservative

    The editors of this website find it acceptable for a poster to call anyone and everyone who disagrees with his or her political views a racist but unacceptable to call someone stupid.

    I suggested that mandy go post at the daily kos but maybe I should go post at some extreme nutbag right wing site if that’s how it’s going to be at BC. At least then they wouldn’t be censoring my comments and I’d agree with some of the others commentors 5% of the time.

  • Arch Conservative

    Hey Mandy.

    You’re a racist.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    I know these things, like many others, are difficult for you to understand.

    Bye then.

  • Arch Conservative

    Well technically Mandy didn’t call another commentor a racist. She called the kid’s father a racist.

    But yet I have been called a racist by scores of boneheaded PC leftists on this site and yet their commenst were not removed. I don’t think it is unreasonable to think that calling someone a racist, especially when there is no evidence, constitutes a personal attack.

  • http://www.EurocriticsMagazine.com Christopher Rose

    I’ll keep it in mind. Keep being reasonable in how you express yourself, I like it.

  • http:://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    BTW, Arch. Is ‘Mandy’ some sort of bizarre hybrid of Cindy and Maddy?

    Dave

  • Arch Conservative

    “I’ll keep it in mind. Keep being reasonable in how you express yourself, I like it.”

    Well Believe it or not. I try. But then some nutbag leftist has to come along and make an implacation like “anyone the opposes Obama does so for racist reasons” and set me off.

    No Dave, Mandy is the Obama harpie that chimed in with comment #99.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Arch, try to get this: the child’s father allowed, perhaps even encouraged, the child to wear a tee-shirt that said that Obama was a terrorist. If the child had worn a tee-whirt that had said that McCain was a terrorist would you have found THAT acceptable? Would you have thought that was a free speech issue, still? Or a dress code issue? Or a homeland security issue?

    It is usually helpful to try and see the other side.

    In this case, Mandy made a fairly accurate assumption, however, in that there continue to be rumours, quite well-funded that Obama is a Muslim, which often makes it easier for people to talk about why they don’t “like” him without saying that he is black.

    Muslim, also, as you well know, connotes, to many in this country with terrorism, in that some large number of Americans believe that ALL Muslims are terrorists (including, apparently commenter David Black, from his posts) as opposed to those who profess support for the jihad.

    Calling Mandy a racist was inflammatory and unnecessary.

    I think, conversation between those of us more liberal (in the dictionary sense of the word) and those who identify as political conservatives could be possible, and perhaps, even construtive if so many assumptions were not made all the time and from the initial get go.

    I certainly do not assume that anyone who opposes Obama does so because he is a racist. I do know that some who do do so because they don’t like blacks. Others do so because they always vote Republican no matter what. Others do so because they don’t like his politics.

    But the entire issue of the tee shirt which started this whole discussion (which once again got woefully off track) was NOT, as I and several posters pointed out (and with which you seem to continue to disagree) an issue of Left vs Right, or even an issue of free speech, no matter how you wish to paint it. Do not be paranoid.

    It is merely and solely and smally an issue of a young child flouting a dress code rule, with his parents’ permission, those same parents who then went to Fox News to make a stink about it and get some anti-left sentiment stirred up.

    The tee-shirt was particularly inflammatory because of the terrorist connection which made it even more difficult for the school to simply dismiss the issue as one of simple dress code violation (PLEASE remember the Republicans are the ones responsible for the Patriot Act which is probably what got people all worked up about this).

    So, in essence, this is a non story that has gotten some people all het up, including the writer who is mad at me because I told her she didn’t do her research. Which she didn’t.

  • Arch Conservative

    Lisa…

    I don’t think any parent should be forcing their young child to express their own political beliefs. Children should be allowed ot be children and not used as political pawns.

    That wasn’t the point I was trying to make though. The point I was trying to make is that when it comes to contreversial subjects and academis there is a huge double standard that illustrates how biased to the left most admnistrators and faculty are. In case you missed it I never claimed it was a free speech issue, but rather that it was an issue of those in charge of our education system having a significantly left leaning political bias that anyone with a pulse an ounce of objectivity could see.

    The hostility torward any conservative/right of center thought on college campuses across this nation coming from faculty, administration and studnets is very real and epidemic.

    You can deny it all you want as that is apprently your MO but it doesn’t make it any less real.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Ruvy and Joanne are wrong: it isn’t about oppression or left or right.

    You actually read what I wrote? How flattering!

    When our kids were in school, I pushed for school uniforms simply because I did not want to have to spend money on all the bullshit “styles” that kids are exposed to in what passes for “culture” in America. If I’d only known that Israeli kids seem to worship what the scummy fools in America wear and there is no budget for school uniforms here!

    Leaving that point aside, you just can’t get away from the fact that there is a political agenda pushed by a lot of the media in all countries. Watching politics tip over to the loony side in your country leaves only the moneyed elite to run the media, sucking people’s wallets empty on what you all think of as “culture”.

    Nevertheless, there is a basic loss of political liberty in your country, and a loss of political liberty that is even clearer here in Israel.

    And to be blunt about it, schools are sickeningly boring in America because of the dumb attitudes of women like Heloise. There is a good reason that so many parents want to home school kids in America, and her stale mentality is one of them.

    I generally do not like Cindy B’s views, and she does not like mine – but at least she appreciates an opportunity to teach when it arises. That speaks well of her.

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    But Arch, the discussion was never about college campuses, really. It was about some grammar school kid wearing an inappropriate tee shirt.

    If you want to write an opinion piece in which you back up, with facts, from reputable sources, from many different points of view, that says that universities in this country have shifted to the left significantly in the past (however many) years, show examples, bla bla bla, then, perhaps you might spark an interesting discussion that people could either agree with or refute.

    Maddy suggested, illogically and without evidence, that the school banned the shirt because they were left wing….

    And that siren call was taken up by you and others.

    My last long post reiterated that what is or isn’t happening in universities was not relevant to the subject matter of Maddy’s original piece.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Much ado about nothing. I’m more concerned about this kid’s education. Will this kid be able to read, write and S-P-E-L-L correctly? Will this kid be capable of doing simple arithmetic? Will this kid have knowledge of our history and be taught accountability and civic duty? Terrorism is not our only enemy. Apathy and disengagement from the political process are the ultimate enemies to America. We’re just not educated enough to realize it!

  • Lisa Solod Warren

    Agreed, Silas.

  • Cindy D

    I had to come back here for my own personal edification. I shouldn’t have let anyone talk me out of what I knew was right. The kid should wear the shirt and it should be taken as an opportunity for discussion. The kid’s father already decided once what the kid should think. The school will decide the second time.

    If I’m going to be a teacher, this is a lesson in how vigilant I’ll have to be. It’s disappointing that I let myself be cowed. Progressives/liberals will stifle opportunities for real education as much as anyone else.

  • http://www.myspace.com/x15 Douglas Mays

    hhhmmm… so the parents made the shirt. then made the kid wear it, knowing there would be backlash….

    That is child abuse… suspend the parents.

    I can imagine the parents are the types who would say “HEY! George Bush fought terror for your freedom of speech. So shut the fuck up!”

    Maybe their phone should at least be tapped! Obama fighting terror at home. Geez. What did we get out of this 43rd President of ours? Great Presidents had great thing to say to inspire the nation. FDR “we have nothing to fear but fear itself”. What do we get with Bush? “terror!”

    Geez, He goes back to Texas on Tuesday. Our sympathy is with you Texas.

    DM

  • http://www.myspace.com/x15 Douglas Mays

    This whole Obama hanging out with terrorists in his past thing really shows what an effete group of bedwetting single celled pools of slime the general Republican marketing mentality is.

    So, let’s make a deal with Daxx’s parents. Let’s investigate everyone they associate with in one way or another, be it a close friend or clerk at the grocery store.

    It would be no problem to find a rapist, thief, child molester, dangerous drug dealer, embezzler of social security funds, psychopath, etc.

    Daxx will probably murder his parents when he gets a bit older or else have a breakdown and kill himself.

    You want terror? Daxx’s parents is a good start. Ask Daxx.

    DM

  • http://www.myspace.com/x15 Douglas Mays

    or if Daxx grows up with his parents agenda, he will be killed as some point along the way…

  • Cindy D

    $1,000 worth of property damage (say graffiti) in MN makes you a terrorist.

  • Nico Ortega

    I agree that they uspended him. IM not an obama lover, i realy didn’t care who won, but the statement was inapproporate, i wouldnt go to school in an anti republican shirt.

    sure he has the freedom of speech, but cmon thats taking it too far, I woud know, im 15 years old

  • Rikki

    I know this kid Daxx. I’m an eighth grader at his school. Let me tell you, this kid is annoying and irratating, and sometimes I wanna punch him in the face. (he goes ON AND ON about “emooligy” study of emo’s. *eye roll) I hate my school and their stupid statement, I saw the yelling and screaming in the hall and mr. Thigpen signaling him to come to his office. No, the suspension was wrong. But I don’t think the school was taking away his freedom of speech, I think my school was preventing a mob over this kids shirt.

  • http://jetspolitics.blogspot.com/ Jet Gardner

    Of course no one would have a problem if he walked in with a cut up american flag made into a shirt would they?

    Of course four years ago the same group would have no problem with a kid wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt would they?

  • Uncle Bill

    I understand the argument about causing a disruption, but who is causing the alleged disruption in this case? The kid wearing the shirt, or the other kids who are hassling him about it? How about disciplining the kids who don’t want to allow him to express his opinion?

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Wow, this is a good thread.

    I wonder if David Black is the same who has recently visited Chris Rose’s website.

  • bill kay

    Clearly a violation of 1st Amendment / free speech. The fatther is exactely correct , these people are a bunch of liberal Loons, and educators should know better, disgusting to have this calaber in our schools as leaders. They should be fired NOW.