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Supporting Illegal Immigration Is NOT Christian

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There is a huge difference between legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. LEGAL immigrants pay taxes, learn our language, and contribute to the United States as a whole. I support legal immigration, and this article is not intended to speak against legal immigrants or legal immigration.

When Jesus was handed a coin with Ceasar’s head on it, he said to “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, and render unto God what is God’s.” Jesus was telling us that we had to respect the authority of government officials, as well as render unto the government what belongs to the government.

We are to pay our taxes and respect the laws of this country. This is at the core of the debate over whether or not to allow illegal immigrants to stay and whether or not we should stop the flow of illegal immigrants over our border. This should be a non issue since it is against the laws of the United States to cross the border illegally.

However, there are some people, and some Christians who may be well meaning, but who have absolutely no idea how much damage they are causing by saying we should allow these people to stay.

First, there is the issue of the law.

If illegal immigrants will break the law to get into this country, what other laws will they break? What’s worse, aren’t we creating a double standard by saying that we will convict some people of certain crimes but not others? Lawbreakers, regardless of the crime, must be punished. This is the only way that we can keep order in this country and preserve our sovereignty. By doing nothing, we are saying that it is ok to enter this country illegally, and ultimately, to break the laws of this country.

Not only are we setting a bad precedent legally, but we are teaching our children that it is ok to break the law if what you think you are doing is ok.

There is also the issue of security.

9/11 should have taught us that there are those who seek to harm us and will stop at nothing to destroy us. By not controlling our borders, it is only a matter of time before a crisis far more serious than 9/11 will happen. All of the terrorists on 9/11 were illegal immigrants even though many immigrated here legally. When their visas expired, they should have been immediately escorted to the border. 9/11 would have never happened.

Second is the issue of disease and medical care.

Millions of Americans have no medical insurance. We aren’t even taking care of our own people, yet, illegals get billions of dollars in free medical care here because they don’t declare their income and draw welfare benefits, as well as Medicaid and Social Security Disability. The amount of welfare benefits, as well as free education and healthcare these people receive far exceeds what the underground economy generates, which is about $9 billion.

In the spring issue of the “Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons”, Madeline Pelner Cosman wrote that 84 California hospitals are closing because of the burden of illegal immigrants on the healthcare system. She also writes that a number of infectious diseases that had been previously irradicated in the United States are now on the rise. These diseases include: drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue, and Chagas disease.

Third is the issue of education.

Again, although the underground economy generates only about $9 billion, the states spend about $12 billion per year educating illegal immigrants. When you factor in anchor babies, these costs soar to over $28 billion. Because of the drain posed by illegal immigrants in higher education institutions, this will also mean less money to educate American citizens and legal immigrants at the college level.

Fourth is the issue of “anchor babies”.

Anchor babies are babies that on born on US soil to illegal immigrants. They are given citizenship under the 14th Amendment. The problem here is that this law was created to give equal rights and equal citizenship to former black slaves after the end of the Civil War. It was never intended to give citizenship to illegal immigrants.

Not even American citizens born on foreign soil are given this privilege. As the mother of a daughter born overseas, I had to prove my identity, the father’s identity, and surrender my passport to the US consulate before the American government would even issue a birth certificate for my daughter. Both my exhusband and I are native born American citizens, and not even our daughter was automatically entitled to American citizenship.

Fifth is the issue of wages and jobs.

We’ve been told for years that illegal immigrants do menial jobs that no one wants. If this is true, then why are thousands of American construction workers out of work? Twenty- years ago, workers in the chicken plants here in Georgia were all American. Now they have been replaced by illegal immigrants.

Because employers don’t have to pay unemployment insurance, worker’s compensation, and don’t observe laws that are written to protect American workers, wages in these industries, and others,l have been driven down. Thousands of Americans who might otherwise have had an opportunity at these jobs no longer have that opportunity.

According to the Pew Hispanic Center, illegal immigrants aren’t risking their lives to come to the United States to find jobs. They are coming here to find better jobs, jobs in the same industries they worked in before but pay more money. This explodes the myth that they are risking their lives to come here to find work.

“Greed, not need.”

In Matthew 15, Jesus criticized the Pharisees for tithing and not caring for their parents first. They weren’t taking care of of their own families. It’s time for us to care for our own family, our own citizens. When we spend money on these illegal immigrants, we are neglecting our own people.

The bottom line is that illegal immigrants are not immigrants but invaders. They are not here to assimilate themselves into our society, learn our language, or become American citizens under our flag. They are here to rape our country of its resources and they are stealing billions of dollars each year in benefits that rightfully belong to American citizens and legal immigrants who pay taxes and observe the law. When we support illegal immigrants, we are aiding and abetting criminals, which is a crime.

As Christians, we are obligated to stand up for what is right. Call Congress and the Senate and tell them to vote no against any bills that would legalize illegal immigrants, as well as vote in favor of strong legislation that would secure our borders. You should also contact your state legislature about bills that would deny benefits to illegal immigrants. Insist on stiff penalties for employers who employ illegal immigrants.

Finally, call, or write, the White House. The only way to protect our way of life, our health, and our faith is to scream long enough and loud enough until these people hear us.

As we celebrate Memorial Day, let us not forget the hundreds of thousands of military service members who have given their lives to preserve our right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness”. Their deaths should not be in vain.

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About Jinger

Jinger Jarrett is a freelance writer, author, and internet marketer. She teaches one person businesses how to get started and then market online using completely free internet marketing techniques. Her books are available on Amazon. Get her free Internet Marketing Tips Guide, and her latest title: "Hour of Power: When Jesus, Zen, and Quantum Physics Meet the US Army" from her site for free: http://jingerjarrett.com
  • zingzing

    it’s not really a christian issue…

  • doesn’t matter

    Look im not trying to go against what you have to say lady, but all i do have to say is this. I was bought over here by my parents when i was 7 months old illegally, i grew up speaking english and only enlgish. I was educated in America and taught American history thinking it was the history of where i am from. I got a diploma from a credited american high school, I take care of a CAUCASIAN women, whom if I had the proper documentation, I would marry in a heartbeat. I pay for my college education, yet again with no goverment asst. with money that I work for. I have son by this women who i love very much and i support with all my heart. Long story short, from what i and many others who know my story say, i am not a bad person, and rightfully deserve to be american. But because of convervative bigots such as yourself, i am stuck in a rut and cannot do anything for myself, but nonetheless, im sure i make more money than you do and ever will and i will be a happier person than you will ever get to be.

  • Dave Nalle

    Wow, I had never even considered that anyone might think Christianity was an issue here. Is there a particular audience this article was aimed at?

    Dave

  • Justin Berry

    Doesnt matter, If you are in college and have been here since you were 7-months old, you obviously havent tried very hard to go straight and legitimize yourself. You are also not very knowledgable of the situation it is the President and his conservatives who are pushing for the bull#$%$ amnesty program by calling it a guest worker program. Whats next amnesty for any crime committed for economic reasons?

  • stan

    Riight…why don’t you twist this some more so you make the religion theme more substantial. First they tried making it an issue of economics, then patriotism, then fairness, then security, then even race(unknowingly)…now you try religion. Pathetic.

    fyi 9/11 was committed by people who were here LEGALLY on valid visas…not illegal immigrants.

    and your logic is flawed..so they didn’t pay taxes…u know why?, its because they don’t have a ssn. So, the bill fixes this…makes them eligible for a ssn, makes them pay back taxes. You want someone to plant a tree, at least give them the tools to do so. Its sinister and truly NOT Christian when you demonize someone for that.

    Everyone loves to blame everything, every problem the US is facing on the illegal immigrants. Go do a search…every book has been thrown at them. Weird thing is 90% of them are based on conjecture, opinion, who-said-what, biased and prejudiced material. You want something Christian?…Let him who is without sin cast the first stone!

  • Arch Conservative

    Nothing is funnier but at the same time more insulting than seeing ignorant, condescending atheists and other assorted miscreant, christophobes lecturing to everyone within earshot on the tenets of Christianity……….. spouting off the one or two trite bliblical passgages that they know only because they have made their way into pop culture.

    What most rabid abortion supporting, ACLU loving, secularist, Democrat voting popmpous assholes know about Christianity amounts to a steaming pile of dung.

  • Ty

    Who cares if it is “Christian” or not? Oh that, Bible Thumpers who pathetically live their life based on a book do.

    Is this how low crazy Christians have sunk? And to think, we once thought the worst they could do was give seminars teaching people about all world religions (with a hidden agenda to show these people that all are “wrong” except Christianity)

  • steam

    i am confused…pls do not make this a religious issue because it is not. Please do not use the bible verses in vain to ‘support’ your cause. All we need(don’t need) is more folks like you clouding the issue and trying to erect more propaganda. Shame on you for dragging religion into this.

  • anonymous

    Supporting Illegal Immigration Is NOT Christian

    You got that right, Jesus would not reach out to the impoverished.

    It’s much more Christian to send them all back to a corrupt nation filled with poverty and let them fend for themselves.

    end sarcasm

  • Jim Wynne

    You lost me in the first paragraph. many illegal immigrants pay taxes, learn English and “contribute to the United States as a whole.”

  • Jim Wynne

    Arch Conservative said,

    “…Christianity amounts to a steaming pile of dung.”

    Well, wish I could stay, but it’s back to the quotemines for me.

  • jess

    I especially love how you compare apples to oranges and then conclude they are identical. If by that you mean they’re fruits, congratulations.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    It’s much more Christian to send them all back to a corrupt nation filled with poverty and let them fend for themselves.

    Yeah, and thereby insure that the nation they are invading by the tens of millions, our nation, will be transformed into the same kind of a shithole they came from – resulting in NO nation left on the face of the earth worth living in.

  • anonymous

    so Richard, you’re saying Christianity is about making sure our nation isn’t a shithole. Okay.

  • Arch Conservative

    Supporting Illegal Immigration Is NOT Christian

    You got that right, Jesus would not reach out to the impoverished.

    It’s much more Christian to send them all back to a corrupt nation filled with poverty and let them fend for themselves.

    end sarcasm

    Yeah the Christian thing to do would be to let the m come intot he country, take advantage of our society and our native citizens in every possible way and then laugh about it right anonymous?

  • anonymous

    Yeah the Christian thing to do would be to let the m come intot he country, take advantage of our society and our native citizens in every possible way and then laugh about it right anonymous?

    No. Why is that the only other option you propose?

  • Arch Conservative

    Being a chrisitan does not mean you can’t be compassionate without allowing hordes of people to screw you over.

    Oh it means this when you’re a christophobe secualrist liberal piece of shit pretending to know something about what christianity really means in a patently pathetic attempt to use christianity against it’s practicioners to make your own inane point. Ie anonymous, ty etc….

  • anonymous

    in a patently pathetic attempt to use christianity against it’s practicioners

    Arch Conservative, (the same one who equates Christianity with a steaming pile of dung), it wasn’t anonymous who brought Christianity into the mix. And I’m not a secularist liberal.

  • Arch Conservative

    Does anyone here possess reading comprhension skills higher than those of a 2nd grader?

    Go back and read what I wronte dumbass. Read it S—L—O—W—L—Y so that you understand it.

    What I said ws that what you secularists morons know about Chrisitnaity amounts to a pile of dung..

    Got it?

    I didn’t say christianity is a pile of dung…

    nice to see your ged came in handy anonymous

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    anonymous, you say that it is un-Christian “to send them all back to a corrupt nation filled with poverty and let them fend for themselves.”

    You also say, sarcastically, that “Jesus would not reach out to the impoverished” – impying that you think it would be Christian to reach out to the impoverished.

    So just how far out do you want to reach? Would you agree that there are at least four billion people in this world who are more impoverished than those Mexicans who are in America illegally?

    Tell us, please, why you think it would be a good idea to “reach out”, and pro-actively arrange to bring all of these “impoverished people” into the United States.

  • Arch Conservative

    Can I make a suggestion to the editors?

    Can you please instate a reading comprehension test to join BC so that the barely literates like anonymous and Jim Wynne are weeded out from the get-go?

  • http://www.101christian.com Jinger Jarrett

    It should be obvious that the intended audience here is Christian.

    However, whether you are Christian or not, you should still be concerned.

    This became a Christian issue when the Presbyterian Church started helping illegals get legal IDs, as well as when the Catholic church came out in favor of giving full amnesty to illegals.

    As for 9/11, you need to go back and research that one. Although these people entered the country legally, when they committed the 9/11 atrocity, they were illegal. They were on expired visas. This made them illegal.

    I said LEGAL immigrants pay taxes. Illegal immigrants do not.

    The bottom line is that those of you who disagreed with me offered absolutely no evidence to prove that I was wrong.

    You can throw all of the emotion at this that you want. It won’t change the facts.

    The bottom line is this: for Christians to support lawbreakers is wrong. Period. There are Christians who are doing exactly that, and they are part of the problem in this country.

    Only 11 percent of Christians read their bible on a daily basis. I’m one of them. I won’t apologize for criticizing people who want to help criminals continue this criminal behavior because they are ignorant of what the Bible says. There’s plenty of other scriptures I could have cited.

    Jesus never shrunk from telling people when they were in sin. For nonbelievers to break the law only makes them criminals. For Christians to ignore the law not only makes us criminals, it makes us sinners.

    On Memorial Day, make sure that you tell every veteran, or at least the ones who are still here, that you don’t think they deserve to be treated for their service connected disabilities because you think that money is better spent on criminals. I’m sure they will thank you.

    I’m not just a Christian. I’m also a military veteran and a woman. I am sick to death of those of you who want to sell us out because it’s more politically correct than doing the right thing.

    You are free to believe whatever you want, think whatever you want, and say whatever you want. Our constitution gives you that right, but remember, it is because of me, and those like me who have served, who have preserved that right to free speech that you have.

  • anonymous

    Tell us, please, why you think it would be a good idea to “reach out”, and pro-actively arrange to bring all of these “impoverished people” into the United States.

    I do not think it would be a good idea to bring all these people into the U.S. I never said that. The only options your side proposes is to send them back and let them fend for themselves or to let them take advantage.

    They come here for jobs. Create the jobs there. Then they will go back on their own.

    Arch Conservative: I didn’t say christianity is a pile of dung…

    How am I to know, you didn’t dispute it when it was attributed to you. And you are calling me someone who is using Christianity as a political tool. Clearly that is the whole premise of this article.

  • anonymous

    for Christians to support lawbreakers is wrong. Period.

    So hypothetically if Christianity is outlawed, then the Christian must deny the faith? You advocate the State above all.

  • zingzing

    oh bing, don’t go there…

    this isn’t a christian issue. it has nothing to do with christianity. i don’t think that anyone should really be speaking for christianity as a whole anyway. who are you? the pope?

    i would hope that the pope would say offering charity to the poor is a christian thing to do. but at this point, because of the size of the problem, this has become a purely political problem, and is not going to be solved by charity.

    charity is the christian thing to do. politics is not. so, no, it’s not christian to support illegal immigration. it’s not christian to actively try to stop illegal immigration either. christianity does not need to get involved at all.

    using the bible to… illegal immigration… what does the bible… you know, this is so totally a non-issue.

    it’s like saying that using superglue is not christian. has absolutely nothing to do with it. whatever.

  • Arch Conservative

    How were you to know Anonumous?

    Well maybe it might be a good idea if you actually read someone else’s post before responding directly to them?

    Ever think of that?

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    I do not think it would be a good idea to bring all these people into the U.S.

    Why not? Are these impoverished less worthy of being “reached out to” than impoverished Mexicans? How can you be so discriminatory and heartless?

  • http://www.101christian.com Jinger Jarrett

    If I were advocating the state above all, I would have supported the bill in Congress.

    I don’t believe that you can separate your belief system from who you are.

    Dispute the facts, Anonymous. Your emotional arguments are weak, and the fact that you don’t post your name tells me you are afraid.

    I expected criticism from this. There will always be those who criticize without offering any real arguments.

    What I was hoping for here was a spirited debate over this issue.

  • zingzing

    “Jesus never shrunk from telling people when they were in sin.”

    that, if he really did exist as such, was his right. it’s not yours.

    you go about condemning your fellow christians for following christian teachings of reaching out to your fellow man. if nothing else, their hearts are in the right place. maybe they aren’t being good americans, you could say that, but you can’t say they aren’t being good christians.

    you, on the other hand, are judging people on a religious level for political reasons. that’s crazy. you do not represent anything that is good about christianity (at least in this case).

    i’m not gonna say you’re a bad person, because i don’t know you, and because people are entitled to their opinion; but, even as someone who doesn’t know shit about christianity, i understand it enough to know that you are perverting what goodness it has left.

  • anonymous

    How were you to know Anonumous? Well maybe it might be a good idea if you actually read someone else’s post before responding directly to them? Ever think of that?

    In comment 11, it was attributed to you. You did not deny it until I brought it up. Yes, I read. Do you?

  • anonymous

    the fact that you don’t post your name tells me you are afraid.

    Damn straight. The christians here are xenophobic, hostile and downright threatening. Are you new here?

  • zingzing

    yeah, she just got back from her conference with jesus, where he told her what he would do about them fuckin mexicans. he conferred with her. and told her that other christians have no fuckin clue.

  • anonymous

    Why not? Are these impoverished less worthy of being “reached out to” than impoverished Mexicans? How can you be so discriminatory and heartless?

    I was referring to the illegals already here. I do not promote amnesty. I gave you my solution, it is a good partial solution to the whole problem. Certainly better than anything advocated under the name of your Lord here and certainly more in line with His principles.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    They come here for jobs. Create the jobs there. Then they will go back on their own.

    That will never happen. The only reason America is still comparatively properous (though decliningly so) is because of the incredible amount of wealth that was brough into existence during a couple of hundred year period that ended nearly a century ago – our golden age of unfettered, untaxed, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism.

    The ever accelerating destruction of our standard of living is because of how we have increasingly turned to welfare statism (which includes both individual and corporate “welfare”). And it is this corrupt system after which Mexico would pattern any “reformation” of its own version of corruption – thereby rendering that country impotent to generate the levels of properity necessary to raise its own people’s standard of living to the point where they would stop eyeing America with envy.

  • http://www.101christian.com Jinger Jarrett

    You are misinformed. Dictionary.com says a xenophobe is: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

    Flame Warriors describes it this way:

    Xenophobe is usually a long-term discussion forum participant and he thinks of the forum as his private compound. Xenophobe regards new forum arrivals as mentally deficient and perhaps even having criminal tendencies, and they are invariably approached with suspicion and condescension. Xenophobe will mount a furious attack if a Newbie has the temerity to make critical observations about the forum’s social dynamics, or questions its prevailing opinions.

    redwing.hutman.net

    Again, dispute the facts of what I am saying. Explain to me why my taxes should go to support illegals when we have people here who are suffering and need help.

    You’ve never addressed this. Unfortunately, you have resorted to a typical liberal tactic: name calling.

    It’s always easier than dealing with the facts.

    Please refrain from using vulgar language here. It’s unbecoming. It also demonstrates that you are the one who is really hostile.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    anonymous, why do you refuse to answer my question? Let me give you another chance:

    Why do you not want to “reach out” to the truly impoverished billions around the world, and bring them all to America so they don’t have to be left in their “corrupt nations filled with poverty” to “fend for themselves.” Are they less worthy

  • Arch Conservative

    Damn straight. The christians here are xenophobic, hostile and downright threatening. Are you new here?

    This idiot shows his true colors. I don’t see any Chrisitians threatening him or anyone else on this sight.

    He’s just an ignorant run of the mill Christophobe.

  • http://agabus.com Mark Adams

    I’m struggling to find a Christian application, one way or other, to the issue of immigration. It’s a public policy matter. If by consensus America wants to shut down its borders and jail every illegal immigrant, fine (that would be a little difficult to pull off and would call into question our tacit approval of illegal immigration, but I won’t argue that point). If by consensus we want to open the borders completely, that’s fine too. I don’t see anything in my reading of the Bible that suggests borders are a theological concern.

    Some of the issues you address are valid–security and the burden on our welfare system–but none are biblical.

    If you consider that the apostles crossed into many lands, sometimes unwelcome, I think you will find that they did not violate a biblical principle.

  • anonymous

    Dictionary.com says a xenophobe is: A person unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign, especially of strangers or foreign peoples.

    That describes the Christians here. I’m not new here.

    anonymous, why do you refuse to answer my question?

    I answered your question Richard. But you hear only what you want to hear. I do not support amnesty for the illegals here, I do not support bringing more here, I do not support being taken advantage of. Is that simple enough for you to understand? I support a solution that you cannot see.

    Go ahead and condemn the tired and poor huddled masses in the name of your Lord, that’s the only answer you want to hear.

    They come here for jobs. Create the jobs there. Then they will go back on their own.

    That will never happen.

    You can put a McDonalds on a Saudi Arabian street corner, or sell Levis jeans and rap music in Turkey but you cannot create a job in Mexico.

    Okay, condemn away in the name of your Lord. Nothing else will suffice.

  • ann

    “When we support illegal immigrants, we are aiding and abetting criminals, which is a crime.”

    By this you condemn the whole church…and since they are committing a crime, they are criminals. The pastors, fathers, priests, …including the Pope. How rightwing selfrighteous can you be?

  • Baronius

    As a Catholic, I’ve seen religion injected into the immigration issue on the opposite side. Many hispanic-oriented charities lean politically liberal, and consider immigration an issue of social justice. There’s no doubt that some employers take advantage of their power over the immigrant worker (legal or illegal). While I don’t see immigration as a religious matter, human rights are.

    I oppose illegal immigration, and favor restrictions on legal immigration. I like the idea of this article, showing that a Christian can favor tight immigration laws. But Jinger seems to turn Christianity into a belief in taking care of our own. That goes too far. Remember the good Samaritan: our aid and our love must go to all men.

  • http://www.101christian.com Jinger Jarrett

    I spent 18 months in the Catholic church. I rejected Catholicism.

    I’m not Catholic. I am, however, a Christian. I have read the Bible, cover to cover, and I’ve read it more than one time.

    How many of you have read the Bible, or are you just lazy skeptics?

    The Pope has no authority to me or over me. However, he claims to be a Christian. That makes him fair game.

    Can you show me in the Bible where it says it is OK to break the law?

    The Bible says not to steal. It also says not to covet. Isn’t that what these people are doing when they take welfare benefits, Medicaid, medical care, and and all of the other government benefits they get? They didn’t work for it. They didn’t pay for it, yet we are supposed to just hand them what we have worked for?

    Aren’t the vast majority of Mexicans, which is the vast majority of illegal immigrants, Catholic? Aren’t Catholics supposed to be Christian? If this is true, do Catholics only follow the Bible when it’s convenient?

  • Deep Thought

    If you were really Christian…you would forgive them for their illegal acts…show a little compassion towards their plight…and pray to God someone would help you in a similar circumstance.

  • Bliffle

    “How many of you have read the Bible, or are you just lazy skeptics?”

    I’m a skeptic, and not lazy. I’ve read the bible many times, and will read it again. It’s freely available everywhere, and the King James version is excellent literature, thanks to Alexander Pope and others. One time, stranded with my wife in a hotel in a town with no other source of amusement, except to play The Beast With Two Backs (again), I used the room bible to read some psalms and The Song Of Solomon to her. She was amazed at the force and beauty of the language! Though a person of literature, her lifelong catholicism had ensured her isolation from and harshness toward, the bible.

    I love the literary superlatives of the bible, but I don’t believe it is gods word, or anything other than familiar stories.

  • anonymous

    Isn’t that what these people are doing when they take welfare benefits, Medicaid, medical care, and and all of the other government benefits they get? They didn’t work for it. They didn’t pay for it, yet we are supposed to just hand them what we have worked for?

    An illegal does not get welfare. Should an illegal abuse the system and get welfare (which is different than free medical care), then they are breaking another law and it should be stopped. Medical care should NOT be contingent upon citizenship or ability to pay. THAT is hardcore anti-Christian.

    Can you show me in the Bible where it says it is OK to break the law?

    I don’t think anybody here is saying it’s okay to break the law. However, taking the role of Judgement upon yourself and determining who gets medical treatment or not has got to be a far bigger sin.

    If this is true, do Catholics only follow the Bible when it’s convenient?

    I don’t know about that, but I can tell you that the majority of American citizens who profess to be Christian pick and choose the parts of the Bible they wish to adhere to.

  • http://bryanmckay.com/blog Bryan McKay

    They didn’t pay for it, yet we are supposed to just hand them what we have worked for?

    What do you think the illegal immigrants do, sit around on their asses and collect checks? The illegal immigrants work too. They may not pay taxes, but they contribute significantly to our economy and they make up a valuable segment of our workforce.

    As to the danger to American jobs and well-being, I suggest you read this: an open letter on immigration drafted by a group of economists. It may not change your mind, but it’s important to look at the situation from a variety of viewpoints before you make a judgment. I understand much of your arguments, but I think under scrutiny they fall apart. They seem to be mostly emotional arguments, but when faced with reality, they don’t always make as much sense as we’d like to think.

  • http://www.smallbusinesshowto.com Jinger Jarrett

    To help these people at the expense of law abiding Americans who truly need it IS NOT COMPASSION.

    This has nothing to do with forgiveness. Forgiveness is about giving up the right to take revenge for being wronged. Revenge belongs to God, not to me.

    This is about forcing these people to observe the laws of this country and to respect the sovereignty of the United States.

    To allow these people to violate the law of this country and do nothing about it, not only is a crime against the United States, but it also violates what the Bible says about respecting those in authority, as well as the government.

    This violates Romans 13, and as a Christian, I cannot do that.

    You must not be a Christian, and I don’t believe you have ever read the Bible. If you had, you wouldn’t have made such a ridiculous statement.

  • anonymous

    This is about forcing these people

    Now that’s the type of Christianity we know and love here.

  • http://www.smallbusinesshowto.com Jinger Jarrett

    Bryan,

    The problem with this letter on immigration is that it has a major flaw: it doesn’t separate illegal immigration from legal immigration.

    I stated in my article that I have nothing against legal immigration, or did you miss that part?

    This letter also didn’t dispute any of the statistics I quoted on medicine, education, or anything else.

    Nice try, but it’s weak.

  • CK

    In 1982 Perdue chicken paid a meat cutter $19 dollars an hour. Now they hire illegals and pay only $9. Who’s kidding who, illegal immigration drives down wages and increases taxes. Leprosy cases last year rose to 9,000, drug resistant TB on the rise, Hepititis A, B, and C on the rise, Chagas disease. The increase of 66 million people over the next 20 years will bankrupt SS, Medicade and Medicare. Higher taxes of course the strapped Middle class will have to bear the brunt of paying. Overcrowded schools, strain on our natural resources, 25 percent of our prisons are filled with illegal immigrants, drop out rates of illegals are also high. Out of wedlock births, Low skilled, uneducated people is not what I call a step in the right direction. I would rather Have 5 million legal immigrants from all over the world who are highly skilled, healthy, obey the law, learn English beforehand, and can show they will not be a burden to our society by signing up for social services when they enter the country. Not to mention respecting our Flag, and the people in the country they have just joined.

    I hate it when people play the race card. This is an economic issue at it’s root core. I have even heard that when some Mexican’s go back to Mexico city they are faced with the same resentment of taking jobs from the ones that stayed. It goes both ways all over the world. It’s an economic job war.

  • sr

    NUKE THE UNBORN GAY OCTOPUSSEY’S.

  • http://blogcritics.org/mt/mt-comments.php?mode=url&cid=375927 Jet in Columbus

    SR I love it when you get all intellectual

  • sr

    ME TOO.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    anonymous: I answered your question Richard. But you hear only what you want to hear. I do not support amnesty for the illegals here, I do not support bringing more here, I do not support being taken advantage of. Is that simple enough for you to understand? I support a solution that you cannot see.

    Still you refuse to answer my question. I asked you:

    WHY do you not want to “reach out” to the truly impoverished billions around the world, and bring them all to America so they don’t have to be left in their “corrupt nations filled with poverty” to “fend for themselves.”

    (the quotes are your own words)

    Now pay real close attention. The first word in my question is not “Whether”. It is “Why”

    So don’t just keep repeating THAT you’re not in favor of doing this. Answer WHY you are not in favor of doing this.

    Is that simple enough for you to understand?

    This is the last chance you’re going to get. If you continue evading and dodging, then I shall explain to everyone why it is that you are afraid to give a straight answer.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    Medical care should NOT be contingent upon citizenship or ability to pay. THAT is hardcore anti-Christian.

    Free medical care for illegals has already put countless hospitals OUT OF BUSINESS in California and Arizona. Now American citizens are having to choose to forgo medical care, because they cannot afford to pay the sky high prices hospitals have to charge to make up for having to give so much free medical care to illegal aliens.

    How “Christian” is it of these illegal aliens to be causing American citizens to have to go without needed hospital care, so they can have it instead?

  • anonymous

    then I shall explain to everyone why it is that you are afraid to give a straight answer.

    You know my heart? Not likely. I am curious as to what you think my stance is.

    The first word in my question is not “Whether”. It is “Why”

    Because it doesn’t solve the problem. If you put 5 billion people on this continent, you won’t fix their situation. I am not in favor of that, of open borders or of amnesty for the illegals here. I have answered your question three times now, but you see only what you want to see.

  • anonymous

    How “Christian” is it of these illegal aliens to be causing American citizens to have to go without needed hospital care, so they can have it instead?

    It’s not Christian of them at all. What does that have to do with YOU living by your Christian ideals? Absolutely nothing.

  • anonymous

    Now they hire illegals and pay only $9.

    And why is nobody promoting the remedy of targeting the employers? Would people come here for jobs if nobody hired them because the fines were too great?

    Of course, it’s much easier and apparently more Christian to target the hungry worker rather than the rich employer.

  • http://www.richardbrodie.com/ Richard Brodie

    If you put 5 billion people on this continent, you won’t fix their situation.

    Thank you. You finally answered my question. Even people who think 100 million new Mexicans can be allowed in without disastrous consequences over the next 50 years, are not so completely out of touch with reality that they cannot appreciate that 5 billions could not possibly be accomodated.

    you won’t fix their situation.

    How very revealing. The only reason you’re against such insanity is because it wouldn’t benefit THEM. Nevermind the destruction it would wreak on AMERICAN citizens, about whom you obviously don’t give a flying fuck.

    So it all really boils down to a question of what population one thinks is appropriate for this nation. I for one think we are ALREADY about a hundred billion too many.

  • anonymous

    When Jesus was handed a coin with Ceasar’s head on it, he said to “Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar’s, and render unto God what is God’s.” Jesus was telling us that we had to respect the authority of government officials, as well as render unto the government what belongs to the government.

    Actually, it’s merely your opinion as to what he was telling us. You weren’t there, you can’t know what he meant. If all he was telling you was to respect the authority of the government, then why say render unto God what is God’s?

    What belongs to the government that does NOT belong to God, as your interpretation clearly implies?

    Render unto the government what BELONGS to the government? And what would that be? What belongs to the government? The government is of the people and for the people. So who has true ownership? The people or the government? Does the coin belong to the government? Is the coin Caesar’s? If so, then he’s saying we should not give it to the Church because it doesn’t belong there. It goes to Caesar.

    My point being, your whole philosophy on how to handle this is simple based on an opinion, an interpretation and not fact.

    Most people I know of, define ‘render unto Caesar what is Caesars and render unto God what is Gods as a command to keep religion out of politics.

    A very different interpretation than buttkissing the State.

  • anonymous

    Even people who think 100 million new Mexicans can be allowed in without disastrous consequences

    If you are referring to me, you are off base as usual, because that is not my sentiment.

    The only reason you’re against such insanity

    Who died and made you Jesus? You’re wrong, you know.

  • Arch Conservative

    Is this anonymous idiot still talking?

  • http://trueblueblog.wordpress.com Jeff

    In reference to #6 – who would know more about steaming piles of dung than you, Arch? ;-)

  • http://www.101articles.com Jinger Jarrett

    Anonymous,

    You still haven’t provided any information, statistics, or anything of value to dispute my position.

    Actually, I did back up my position. You can scroll up to see it. Read Romans Chapter 13. It’s very clear.

    However, you don’t seem to be here to contribute anything of any real value anyway. Your posts lack credibility because you won’t even reveal who you are. You seem to be here to do nothing more than stir up trouble.

    When I wrote my article, I knew I would face criticism from people like you. No big deal. Richard and CK provided some excellent posts to this thread and at least attempted to stimulate discussion, which is what I wanted.

    One of the things that I should have pointed out here is that when the when the House passed its version of the bill in December 2005, they made it a felony to aid and abet illegal immigrants, which, by the way, was already a crime.

    My problem with non Christians is that they want to hold Christians to a higher standard than anyone else. We are no less, or no more, human, and infallible than anyone else.

    The purpose of my article was to hold accountable Christians who aid and abet these illegal immigrants. Not only are illegal immigrants so too are Christians who help them.

    So we’ve come full circle. Now, provide us with a valid, coherent, intelligible, spirited, and intellectual argument for your stance, whatever that is. Dispute what I’ve said.

    As you have demonstrated, it takes zero intellect to nitpick.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    All of the terrorists on 9/11 were illegal immigrants even though many immigrated here legally.

    Absolutely incorrect. EVERY 9/11 hijacker entered legally. Of those, only ONE hijacker’s visa had expired on 9/11, but (1) it was pending renewal, and (2) he wasn’t a pilot, just muscle. If he had been escorted to the border when his visa expired, it would have been great, but it would have done nothing at all to stop 9/11 from happening.

    If you want to use national security as an aspect of the illegal immigration issue, that’s perfectly legit. But you should have your facts straight. Using bad information about the 9/11 hijackers actually damages your argument.

  • zingzing

    jj-i pity anyone who has to deal with you. if you follow all of the rules laid down in the bible, and, as you seem to here, judge anyone who does not follow them as well, you must hate everybody, every “god damned” soul on this earth.

    you say you follow the bible. why do you ignore the good parts, about compassion and pity and “judge not?” what’s wrong with those parts? why does that not figure into your argument? what the hell does the bible say about americans? immigration? NOTHING. there is no direct reference to this problem.

    religion is a personal thing. you aren’t going to save or change the world with it. if you are going to let your religion guide you, let it guide you on a personal basis, within yourself and outwards toward individuals, not whole peoples.

    like someone else said, your sin, your transgression is far worse (how dare you judge 12 million people?) than anything the average illegal immigrant does. you’re just a liar and a bigot, wrapping yourself up in your self-rightous bullshit and arrogance.

    say what you will about illegal immigration, but don’t couch it in these terms. you claim to be a christian, but your words make you sound like the devil. you make a mockery of your supposed faith.

  • http://theallinoneblog.blogspot.com Casey

    You seem to have done very little research on this recent blog. First off, illegal immigrants most certainly do pay taxes, thanks to many programs from the IRS, and since illegal immigrants can’t own their own homes, the rent that goes to their landlord gets taxed. It’s a little thing we like to call property taxes. Not to mention, illegal immigrants are less of a burden on our economy than many people born and raised in the United States. They use virtually no social programs, since they’re afraid of being deported, and yet again, pay taxes. I’m so sick of this “They’re a burden on our economy” argument.

  • Arch Conservative

    [Edited]

    The fact is that they are a drain on our economy. Between healthcare, non-payment of taxes, utilization of services and crime they cost this nation farmore than they give to it.

    [Edited]

    So spin it how you want but the facts just aren’t on the side of your [Edited] argument.

  • zingzing

    go take a crap, bing.

  • http://theallinoneblog.blogspot.com Casey

    Wow Arch. You seem angry! Why? Because you, yourself, don’t have any facts? You’re so obsessed with your little idea that illegal immigrants are bad, gay marriage is bad, and other conservative “ideals” that facts just won’t get in your way, huh?
    signonsandiego.com
    csmonitor.com
    latimes.com

    Take a look at those. I look forward to your “liberal media” argument.

    [Whilst I look forward to you learning how to make urls active, Casey. Thank you. Comments Editor]

  • http://absent-mind.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Casey, can I be a “Pople” too? Can you post a brochure?

  • http://blogcritics.org/author.php?author=Casey%20Lunkley Casey Lunkley

    Jet, I’m really not sure where the “Pople” thing comes from. I assumed you were childishly referring to a typo, but since I never typed the word “Pople”, I think you’re just being moronic.

    Care to elaborate?

  • Arch Conservative

    nctimes.com

    cis.org

    usgov.info

    There you go casey)

    [Archie, go learn how to make links active before posting any more. Thanks. Comments Editor]

  • http://blogcritics.org/author.php?author=Casey%20Lunkley Casey Lunkley

    No comment on my articles?

    That’s funny!

  • Arch Conservative

    You’re articles basically say that there are some illegals paying taxes but they do not address the larger picture which is total costs versus total benefits of illegals. Mine do.

    Happy reading.

  • Baronius

    Jinger, is your comment #42 a reply to my comment #41? I’m afraid you missed my point: that I agree with you. I’m not defending the pro-immigration sentiments among some Christians. I mentioned them in response to earlier commenters who had never heard of a religious/immigration connection.

    I also agree with your reading of Mt 22, that rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s means compliance with the laws of the state (although I might add that we are under no obligation to comply with any immoral laws). (I’m sure that caveat is going to freak out some non-Christians on this site, so let me mention Selma, Alabama and hope they understand me.)

    Aside from the requirement to follow law, I don’t get your tie-in between immigration and Christianity. But it’s unnecessary. It doesn’t change the argument if illegals drain the economy, or if they brighten our days with colorful flower arrangements. As long as illegal immigration is illegal, that’s enough to justify opposing it.

    We should probably avoid debating Catholicism under this topic. Happy Memorial Day, and thanks for your service.

  • Heloise

    Conservatives are seen as Christians and Bush ran on being a “Compassionate Conservative” from the advice and book from a Jewish author. So I understand who you are addressing in this essay. I think it is excellent whether or not there is the Christian angle to it. That does not strengthen nor weaken your argument.

    I see the illegals and the anchor babies everyday filling up our schools. It was the will of the people that busing not be forced on black and white children. They were outvoted. It is now historical fact that this desegregating of schools led to massive white flight and the ruination of the city of Dallas, just to name one city that was destroyed by something that did not last long.

    Schools are not only resegregated but now black and white kids are telling me all the time that their parents are leaving the city because it is too dangerous. Even blacks are leaving the city and moving to newly established black middle class suburbs. People are advocating that blacks segregate themselves into their own schools. Why? Because their interest has been subsumed with the crowding out by illegal alien children.

    The overwhelming language needs, socialization, content remediation is just as great or greater than those of poor black chidren. The needs of the illegals will soon smother and extinguish the needs of black children. All made possible by the greed of those parents who have invaded, literally invaded our cities.

    It is beyond upsetting it is downright evil. I see not only the greed behind this move but I also see the practical side. Not only are they putting an extreme burden on the health care with their diseases but they have a higher rate of idiocy, mental and physical retardation than other groups. The percentage of retardation in their children is something that no one figures into the cost. Do you have any idea how much more they are getting for having a retarded child?

    I am one who has no permanent job, can’t get one, despite being a certified teacher, I have NO health insurance, and have to take whatever jobs I can to pay my bills. I am well educated and decided to become a writer because I can’t get a real job.

    People wake up!

    Heloise

  • anonymous

    I am one who has no permanent job, can’t get one, despite being a certified teacher

    Your comments about retardation being a racial thing makes you unfit to be a teacher.

  • Bliffle

    My wifes school is 90% hispanic, and it’s generally acknowledged that 90% of those are illegals. The medical burden is astonishingly high, as is domestic violence, child abuse, murder, and gang activity (she’s seen many promising children slide into gang activity). Problem families are no longer an exception that can be handled as special cases. Problem families are common, it is normal families that are exceptional.

  • Mathew

    Hi, pls consider the fact that thousands and thousands of people from all over the world dream of coming to America. It is because this country. It is because, this country is such a country, and this country cannot stand in the way of a person who intends to come here. “Thats love and thats America”

    Mathew

  • Arch Conservative

    Gotta love those illegals and how much they contribute huh Casey.

    That’s not what AMerica is Matthew. people want to come here because thier own nations are either third world shitholes rife with poverty and corruption or socialist shitholes rife with unemployment and pacifist pussies

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Archie, before you get too gung-ho about the USA, please try to remember there ARE actually other places to be that are just as good or, let me whisper it, even better!

    Perhaps your country attracts people from “third world shitholes rife with poverty and corruption or socialist shitholes rife with unemployment and pacifist pussies” as you, with your usual charm, put it because they’d feel right at home there?

    I’d rather chop off large parts of my body off than live in such a rude, dangerous, unfriendly and unintelligent place as your America and I hope you never get a visa to enter Europe!

  • Heloise

    I can post the URLs with the medical research. I am talking about research that shows that eating large amounts of corn products (some tainted, some of it genetically engineered), they even have the amount of corn that Mexican women eat per month, is ACTUALLY causing higher rates of mental retardation among MEXICANS. NOW EAT THAT! #78.

    I am not only certified and qualified in two areas, but the system wants people who are unbelievably low skilled. Since I have two real degrees, and not the bullshit degree in teaching, I am overqualified to teach in public school.

    Most teachers do NOT have degrees in the content area they teach. That’s why I don’t have a job. I am overqualified and not a socialist ass kisser like yourself.

    Heloise

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    Archie, before you get too gung-ho about the USA, please try to remember there ARE actually other places to be that are just as good

    I think it was David Sedaris who said, “Surprising as it is to most Americans, people in other countries don’t chant, ‘We’re number two!'”

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    I am overqualified to teach in public school.

    Then stop teaching in public school.

  • Heloise

    We know that hospitals in LA are closing due to the burden of illegal immigration but now there is documentation of schools with 100% Mexican population having to close. Why? Because what you may not know is that what schools get from the feds in terms of dollars is linked to the rate of attendance. In other words when the attendance gets so low, as in dropouts and no shows, then it effects the budget of that particular school.

    And hell, if those illegals want to hang out, eat corn, put on makeup ad nauseum, fuck, have more illegal babies, act like packaged commerically pushed “black culture” as espoused by BET (now white owned), then what is a school to do to attract people who don’t want to be there?

    Fact: The dropout rate and poor attendance rate among illegals and Mexicans is THE highest among any group, including poor black children. If you want to dispute that then show me where you have taught in those types of schools and read the facts and figures on it.

    Fact: They have high rates of mental and physical retardation.

    Fact: The law that states that a child born on American soil makes the child automatically a US citizen is NOT a fact. It was formulated so that children of former BLACK slaves would become citizens of this country when born here.

    Fact: That law was NEVER meant to grant automatic citizenship to the anchor babies of illegal alien females who jump the border invaded one of the local hospitals and dropped their baby bombs on stupid Californians.

    Fact: Banks like Wells Fargo are aiding and assisting illegal aliens to get mortgages and open bank accounts both here and in MEXICO.

    Fact: You must get and apply for a birth certificate regardless to the legal status of the parents. What about people who are American and have a baby out of the country? They too have to show papers.

    It is not racist to point out the weakness in any group. Remember the good old days when it was just blacks and whites hating each other and fighting for civil rights in the cities?

    Heloise

    PS: I am not only a proud black American but also a woman. I have been accused of being a white male (that was my last life). And yes, I have lots of LEGAL immigrant friends, and naturalized citizens (mostly from India).

    My family is part Latino (Cuban). But we are NO part Mexican, but also part American Indian. So that makes us natives…hehehehe

  • Heloise

    I am overqualified to teach in public school.

    Then stop teaching in public school.

    Do you know how hard it is to get a job when you are overqualified for anything? I only work as a substitute because if I ever get a classroom job then it would add to my years of teaching.

    Heloise

  • Arch Conservative

    I’d rather chop off large parts of my body off than live in such a rude, dangerous, unfriendly and unintelligent place as your America and I hope you never get a visa to enter Europe!

    Sounds like you’re describing France not America Christopher. Americans don’t have shit on the hordes of unbathed, brie eating, surrender monkeys that inhabit France when it comes to being rude and xenophobic Chris.

    I have a T shirt that has a german and french flag on it and it says what part of europe are you from…..

    underneath the french flag it says “the part whose ass we saved” and under the german flag it says “the part who ass we kicked.” Hahah

    But seriously ….Europe sucks… you can have it all to yourself Chris.

    As for AMerica not being the best nation on earth………

    if America is such a bad place why do more people seek to emigrate here than any other nation on earth? why do people buy our products and immerse themselves in things produced by the american culture? why does the UN (useless nations) get about half it’s funding from the US and then badmouth us?

    Seems to me like most of the rest of the world are a bunch of fucking hypocrites.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Actually, I’ve been to France many times and, apart from their odd conviction that French is a great language, they’re very charming people.

    Your ideas seem rooted in a warped mindset of hate and odd post 2nd World War prejudices, Archie. You do understand that all ended over sixty years ago, right?

    Maybe it’s because the USA so very nearly sided with Germany back then that bugs you about the French?

    Or maybe it’s because your country would probably never have won its freedom from the British if it wasn’t for crucial French military intervention?

    Or is it that France loved the idea of America so much as to send it the Statue of Liberty?

    Archie, I’d say it is you that is the hypocrite – but don’t go letting reality get in the way of venting your own bitter stream of bile, that’s so much more fun and doesn’t require any of that tricky thinking stuff or intellectual honesty.

  • Arch Conservative

    I’ve been to Paris in the past 5 years and they are assholes!

    Yes the french did help us win our independence from the British but we have repaid the favor tenfold.

    My ideas are based on what’s going on in the world today Chris.

    You don’t see people clamoring, risking thier lives to get into France do you?

    NO other nation or culture has as much widspread and far reaching influence on the world than America.

    Virtually every nation in europe has a much higher unemployment rate than that of the US.

    I’d say you were jealous and that that was the root of your animosity toward the US Chris but I know better. You’re so ignorant that you actually believe the bile that YOU spill. Typical European non-american douchebag with a superiority complex.

    Most european nations are at least 4-5 times older than America yet we have eclipsed them in every aspect of government, economics, science, technology you name it, in just over 200 years.

    You conviently ignored many of the points that I made with regard to America being the most emigrated to country in the world, America funding nearly half of the UN, America giving more in economic aid to impoverished nations than any other nation, America donating more than nay other nation in the world to the AIDS problem in Africa, America giving more aid than any other nation to help the victims of the recent tsunami in asia…etc etc etc

    Why don’t you address some of these points Chris?

  • yomero

    Well, why are you worry? I’m Mexican and really i don’t care about your country, in fact is last country in this world i would go. Immigration in latin american is a cultural problem, all those people are just following the funny american dream, like all your ancestors, so please think first before sy something stupid, just like “Supporting Illegal Immigration Is NOT Christian”, please grow up schizoids!!!!!!

  • anonymous

    That’s not what AMerica is Matthew. people want to come here because thier own nations are either third world shitholes rife with poverty and corruption or socialist shitholes rife with unemployment and pacifist pussies

    Nice … do you pray to Jesus with that mouth??

  • Bliffle

    I go to France regularly, and my wife is french. I have never been treated rudely or been insulted by a French person. If you treat them as a reasonable human they will return the favor. Like most people anywhere in the world, they will treat you as you treat them: maybe that’s why they treat you like an a..hole.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Actually, Archie, people are risking their lives to get into Europe every single day. YOU may not see it but it’s pretty hard for you to see anything new bent over double like that.

    Nobody is denying the USA has had a lot of influence on global culture but not all of it has been good. Sure, there are some structural problems to be over come but I’d rather have our social model than the USA’s mix of heavy state control, heavy policing and high crime any day.

    I was wondering when you’d trot out the lazy jealousy argument – it’s just as mistaken as your empty presumption that I spilt any bile at all. Let’s see, I’m simultaneously jealous, ignorant, and a European non-American douchebag with a superiority complex. I’m just grateful the only power you have is to vote once every few years.

    The USA hasn’t eclipsed anybody at all, just because one star shines briughtly doesn’t drown out the whole sky. You just sound insecure and full of empty bravado, desperately trying to reduce these topics to the level of some school football game.

    I don’t know if the USA is the country most people want to move to and really don’t care. It seems most people want to shop at WalMart and eat in MacDonalds but that doesn’t mean it is somehow a better choice.

    As for funding the UN, I think it’s still the case that the USA is the country with the largest unpaid contributions ever and seems to think that not paying in billions of dollars whilst complaining about the UN’s lack of resources is a credible policy.

    I’m no expert on these things like some but I think you’ll also find that US economic aid may be the largest in dollar terms but not as a peercentage of the economy – which is of course the only rational basis for comparison.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    There’s nothing wrong with the French. I’ve been there quite a few time and outside of Paris they’re generally pretty reasonable people. In Paris there are people in the service industry who ARE arrogant and anti-American, but it’s very different in the countryside or smaller cities. My main complaint about France these days is the damned African immigrants who can’t speak proper French and are incomprehensible, and yet management insists on putting them on the drive through speaker at McDonalds.

    Dave

  • MCH

    “There’s nothing wrong with the French.”

    True, and they were right about opposing the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Guess I have to take back my approval of the French. There’s nothing wrong with them except for their willingness to let the people of Iraq live under an oppressive regime so long as it bribed them with oil.

    Is that better?

    Dave

  • Beth

    Jinger Jarrett wrote: “What’s worse, aren’t we creating a double standard by saying that we will convict some people of certain crimes but not others? Lawbreakers, regardless of the crime, must be punished. This is the only way that we can keep order in this country and preserve our sovereignty.”

    Just who broke the law? Who didn’t preserve our sovereignty? That’s where the disagreement among christians is!!!

    By refusing to enforce the law’s (and in some cases at the local level even deliberately obstructing the laws) established in 86 by the IRCA, the US Federal, State, and local governments, has in fact agreed to a “social contract” (as fmr. Rep. Newt Gingrich referred to it) with our illegal immigrants, by giving them a wink and nod, as they uprooted and fled the poverty in their home land, entered this country, and took up employment!

    Now! almost two decades later, they’ve suddenly decided they want to pull this contract away from them, and by fining their current employers, force them back to a land where any hope of bettering their lives could be some 20 30 years away. In other words they are going to punish them for something, the US government, has been encouraging them to do! Just what penalty will government officials be paying for their disregard of the law? How about we Christians begin advocating for a provision requiring that any Local, State or Federal official, who either ignored/refused, or enacted a policy designed to obstruct the federal laws established in the 86 IRCA, and any future law breaking official, receive no less than ten years in federal prison. (the same amount of time proposed in the Senate bill for becoming an American citizen)

    Their two decade long, government-sanctioned social contract, has resulted in a permanent underclass because they are less able to bargain individually with employers for a full market wage, and therefore have no way of achieving economic mobility. President Bush is doing the only thing a good Christian would do, the right thing, by proposing we give them the opportunity to raise them-selves out of this underclass.

    Furthermore, I’ve heard other members of my party express concerns about the amount of immigrants the Senate bill will allow into this country. On the Radio they were saying that allowing 60 million immigrants from third world countries over the next twenty years would be disastrous and would increase the welfare state to unprecedented proportions. I don’t understand why we would be fearful of 60 million new immigrants over the next twenty years. As our baby boomers retire, isn’t the United States going to lose 78.2 million Americans from it’s work force over the next twenty years?? Are not more and more Americans beginning to agree that giving young Americans the freedom to chose where their Social Security comes is the right thing to do?? Don’t immigrants come to make a better lives for themselves, because laws in their birth country prohibits growth?? With the help of our more libertarian Republicans, more and more Americans are better understanding that government run institutions restrict the freedom to chose, and government entitlements in general, create poverty!
    Immigrant from socialist countries already and corrupt countries like Mexico already understand this fact.

    Personally I think our conservative representatives, worried about the immigrant growth causing the welfare state to grow, need to worry about doing what they do best, continuing to cut our taxes even further, so that we have more of our money to give to our Churches and charities. The churches, worshipers and charity volunteers will worry about doing what we do best, helping people, be they native or new immigrants, to help themselves achieve a better life!

  • DazeyMai

    MCH….You are so right!

    Dave….You eat at McDonald’s in France? Are you kidding?

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    There’s nothing wrong with the French

    Don’t you mean, “the Freedom?”

  • sr

    Dave#95. This is why I dont drive through. The IQ of most workers at McDonalds and all the others types is below camel dung. America the stupid.

    This brings me to Minority Leader Harry the little wimp Reid. What a macho mam. Say all you want to this dork and the answer is always the same. “Racist”. What would Reid have done if she was president on 911?

    In 1906 congress passed and President Theodore Roosevelt signed legislation requiring people seeking to become naturalized citizens to demonstrate oral English literacy. Guess Theodor was a racist Harry. In 1950, the requirement was strengthend to require people to demonstrate an understanding of the English language. More racist for Harry. Now it gets even more racist Harry so hold on to your panties. Including an ability to read, write and speak words in ordinary usage in the English language.

    Let us all go out and vote. We have no frecking clue about who we are voting for, what the prop’s mean and how do I amend this or that.

    America, bend over and kiss your stupid big fat ass adios.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    sr opines,

    “Dave#95. This is why I dont drive through. The IQ of most workers at McDonalds and all the others types is below camel dung. America the stupid.

    Hmmm…

    sr, I used to manage a Burger King in Minnesota, and I will tell you that the drive-thru workers we had were prewtty sharp cookies – especially when you lined them up against a lot of the fools who came through gabbing on cell phones and not paying attention at all to what they were allegedly doing.

    I never almost ordered on a drive-thru myself anywhere in the States – but this was because I didn’t want to sit on line and spend gasoline if I didn’t have to. Most of the time, the drive-thru workers at other restaurants I visited were pretty sharp and on the ball.

  • Arch Conservative

    There’s nothing wrong withthe French unless you don’t consider anything wrong with the folllowing: taking bribes to look the other way from a crazy Iraqi dictator who brutalizes his people and ignores UN resolutions, having a national unemployment rate over 10% and an unemployment rate for young people in the high 20%, having riots in the streets due to racial tensions and a stagnant economy,

    A quote from Chris

    “I don’t know if the USA is the country most people want to move to and really don’t care.”

    Yes of course Americans are the ignorant ones right Chris?

    If there is such a distaste for all things American in europe and everywhere else then why doesn’t everyone just say no to our money, military and culture? I mean if europe is so superior why don’t they do this Chris?

    I know you like to think of Europe as some sociliast utopia Chris but the facts just don’t bear it out. First of all, the major nations of europe Germany, France, Spain, Italy, all have unemplyment rates of over double that of the US. Great britian does have a slightly lower unemployment rate than the US but then the world has seen that they like not to be grouped in with mainland Europe and many of Brits are in staunch oppoisition ot being part of the EU. Third…the gross domestic product per capita of all european nations is lower than that of all but 4 states in the US. That’s right whole european nations cannot even compete with single states in America.

    Chris writes

    “I’d rather have our social model than the USA’s mix of heavy state control, heavy policing and high crime any day.”

    Heavy state control in America? The last time I checked you guys in Europe were taxed almost twice as much as we are here for the purpose of personal wealth and income redistribution. The healthcare systems in europe are either owned by or run by the government.

    You mentioned that comparing economic figures can only be done as percents rather than raw numbers if it is to make sense. The same goes for crime.

    According to interpol the crime rates per 100,000 in 2001 were:

    * 4161 – US
    * 7736 – Germany
    * 6941 – France
    * 9927 – England and Wales

    The numbers don’t seem to support you high crime in America assertion do they Chris?

    So if you want to keep making dumbass assumptions about the contrat between America dn Europe please do.

    I am quite prepared to keep proving you wrong Chris.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Archie, firstly, you aren’t proving me wrong, you’re only proving that you can’t understand somebody who speaks the same language as you, never mind someone who doesn’t actually speak English.

    To call me ignorant for not being up to date on the latest trends in US migration is as laughable as it is irrelevant. I simply said that I wouldn’t want to live in an America as defined by your warped and hateful set of beliefs.

    You’ll just have to trust me on that. I find you delusional, paranoid, mean and nasty and that’s not a set of values I can get behind.

    You don’t know the first thing about what I think, Archie, you’re too busy leaping to your stereotyped mindset and hurling out your bitter cliches.

    Sure, there are several economic and social issues that need addressing in Europe. That’s always been true and always will be, both in Europe and the USA – and everywhere else in the world for that matter – so you’re not really saying anything at all. Mind you, we already knew that.

    Over incorrect assumptions you might want to rethink before continuing to make a fool of yourself in public:-

    1. State control and taxes are not the same thing.

    2. Changing the subject without answering the question is NOT an acceptable response.

    3. Life IS more violent and aggressive in the USA, particularly in the major cities but also out in the countryside too.

    I have been to the USA many times, in areas of fantastic wealth and mindshredding poverty, and seen a lot of crime. I have also spent a lot of time in almost all the major European state capitals.

    Trust me, it’s not the same at all, regardless of what those statistics of yours may say. The level of aggression in the air is markedly higher in the USA.

    In some ways you are a classic American stereotype yourself, somewhere between the emotional depth of Al Bundy and the intellectual grasp of Cliff from Cheers. Thanks for the entertainment.

    The USA is a wonderful country of magnificent landscapes and unlimited hopes of a better future in a more just world.

    It’s also, as one of the world’s younger national cultures, just a little unsure of it’s role in a world that it’s only comparatively recently come to understand as rather more complicated and nuanced than it first appeared.

    Ready to come down off that high horse yet, cowboy?

  • Bliffle

    “Dave….You eat at McDonald’s in France? Are you kidding?”

    Actually, McD is better in France than in the US. The burgers are leaner and less fatty, the frites are excellent and the espresso is often the best in town. In fact, I have scandalized my French family by getting espresso at the McD drivethru, which is always empty (of course, one misses the REAL pleasure of a cafe, sitting at the table on the plaza watching the people, enjoying the air, the chiaroscuro shadows of plane trees on the earth, etc.). Nevertheless, the McD burgers are not good enough to sway one from going to a real restaurant or sidewalk cafe for lunch. But the McD on Champs elysee is always jammed because it is a very chic meeting place for young parisians. It’s easy to find: right across from the huge Banana Republic and Virgin Records store which are the ultimate in chic.

  • Les Slater

    Nobody has made a case as to what God or Jesus think about all this. Is Jesus to sit back and let his followers quote scripture that was written when the world was enormously different than it is today?

    Christians have taken opposite positions on important issues past. Slavery was one of them. Did God, or even the scripture really, and definitively, support either side?

    It was resolved through a civil war. The issues were social, economic and political.

    The same is true for immigration.

    The call to resist the ‘invasion’ in religious garb is just a reactionary appeal to irrational fears. This more than borders on the hysterical.

  • sr

    Ruvy my amigo, Yes I know you managed a Burger King in Minnesota which was some time ago. Come to Florida. It’s not just the drive throuh. Inside is the same. KFC is another story. The old Col would be doing flip flops if he could see the Kingdom of Fried Chicken now.

    Arch, Sure crime is up in Europe. They removed those dreadful guns from the law abiding. Guess who still has the guns? CORRECT.

    Never been to France. No desire. However if I did my choice of cuisine would not be dining under the golden arches. France will be the next kingdom of fat, second to America when they start eating double meat, double cheese, double whoppers, double fries, and all the other fat foods. Napoleon Bonaparte once said for an army to win they should eat 2lb’s of escargot and 3gal’s of wine each day and leave the whoppers and fries for our enemy.

    Makes sence to me.

    Monday is Memorial Day. Thank a vet.

  • Beth

    Chris, I don’t disagree with your perception of Arch’s attitude. There is no doubt, he has allowed the pride he takes in our country to become arrogance, and he could probably use a reminder that the US is only a few law’s away from becoming one of those “shitholes” (as he put it), to bring about the humility he’s lacking. Fortunately, for the USA we aren’t all as insulting, and arrogant as he is.

    However, in the same breath, I do agree with many of the statements he’s made on the comparisons between America and Europe. Your right, America is one of the younger nation’s in the world, and yet she has exceeded our European counterparts to become the most powerful and successful nation in the world today. I have no doubt that this success is due to American ambition and because of the lack of State control, not heavy state control. (But it is increasing by the day)

    However, in the same breath the destruction and devastation that Europe suffered due to WWII was so great, that Europe was forced to begin again from scratch, and therefore could be considered even younger than the US. How far Europe has come since WWII , should also bring a great sense of pride to Europeans.

    Arch used taxes to point out that Europeans live in a country with more state control than America because Americans see taxes AS state control. For two reasons- Anytime a government can decide how much of your hard earned income, you can keep, and how much the government can take, that is state control. 2nd. The more money the government takes from you the more power and control over your life it can take from you. Governments can’t support the institutions that it creates to control your choices, actions, your life in general, without your money.

    Also His arrogance aside, I think he was trying to assert that the US is the most generous nation in the world. He only mentioned the monetary aspect of US giving, (probably because he was too occupied with insulting you) But had he included US resources, he’d be correct in his assertion, both in absolute measurements and as a percentage of GDP. In addition to giving more foreign aid, and in private foreign aid in absolute numbers, than any other country, we have long provided the most foreign direct investment to the developing world and generated the bulk of the world’s research and development, spurring long-lasting economic development and saving lives through better food and medication. We also contribute the most militarily, guaranteeing the security necessary for growth and democracy. The big point–that the totality of U.S. foreign assistance far exceeds all other developed nations. Giving in this manner is very consistent with the personal beliefs held by the majority of Americans. That being, that the best way to help those in need, is to help them pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

    ARCH is being a twit really necessary? BTW Our health care system might as well be state controlled, it is unarguably one of the most heavily government regulated industries, hence the reason it is so expensive today. Sadly since complete and utter disregard for the constitution has become the norm, the reality is that our health care system is only one liberal presidential pen stroke away from becoming a universal health care system.

    Remember Arch: But for the grace of God there go I…

  • Les Slater

    Beth,

    Foreign aid is designed to bankrupt and impoverish the recipient country as a set-up for economic rape and pillage.

  • sr

    ARCH, Keep being a twit. Im a twit myself just like Beth is a twit. Mark Twain once said it is far better to speak twitenly then not to speak as a twit. Twain remains for all and he hait no twit.

    Forever twitenly.

    sr.

  • MCH

    “Guess I have to take back my approval of the French. There’s nothing wrong with them except for their willingness to let the people of Iraq live under an oppressive regime so long as it bribed them with oil.”
    – Dave Nalle

    And of course, all your hundreds-of-thousands of rhetorical, typed words of “support” of the invasion have made exactly same the impact as what the French have done:

    Z-E-R-O!!

    So you actually have more in common with the French than to our soldiers being sacrificed over there, Nalle…

  • Dave Nalle

    You know, there’s a whole thread of relevant discussion here you could comment on, MCH. But you’d rather bore us with your repetative irrelevancies.

    Dave

  • Bliffle

    “…There’s nothing wrong with them except for their willingness to let the people of Iraq live under an oppressive regime so long as it bribed them with oil.”

    But wasn’t that US policy a few years ago? I remember happy smiling pictures of one D Rumsfeld with Saddam under an earlier administration that was considered Excellent.

    Maybe it’s just hard for dimwits like me and the French to follow the twists and turns of administration policy.

  • Nancy

    I’ve always found the French to be lively, lovely people – and I can’t speak French very well at all, but they were generous in spite of that. Besides, anyone who invents Brie & can make bread the way they do is AOK in my book. And like w/the US, it ain’t the French people who are skanks – it’s the French (and US) governments. Viva le peuple Francois!

  • Joey

    Have you taken enough yet? I see your point, to a degree. But this weekend a though occurred to me.

    Given the argument at hand, and the “talk” of amnesty… has ushered in a surprising (yet not surprising) event.

    The discussion around amnesty is bringing EVEN MORE people to the border. EVEN MORE people are crossing, EVEN MORE people stand to injure themselves… why? So they can get in under the wire IF, I say IF, I say it again IF, amnesty is granted…

    So… the mere debate around a POSSIBLE AMNESTY is causing a rise in the crossing rates.

    10 percent of Mexico now lives in the U.S.? Wow.

    There is a lot to be said for the corrupt government and other business practices within a country if fully 10% of it’s population leaves to live in a better off, convenient country located next door.

    That’s amazing. Why are we the magnate? Based on your writing… America is a blessed nation, we have favor in God’s eyes. Is that true? Is that the reason we appear to be a light upon the world? A beacon of hope. An answer to prayer.

    That’s a lot to think about. There is a lot wrapped into those thoughts, which a lot of Americans, and respondants to this blog, don’t comprehend.

    And will probably NEVER comprehend. Their eyes are closed, there is nothing in their hearts, but hatred. Blind hatred to any thought that might show a blessing, favor, or that would ask the question of… Are we a country which others shoud aspire to, or come to?

  • MCH

    “But you’d rather bore us with your repetative irrelevancies.”
    – Dave Nalle

    I don’t have a degree in English, but isn’t it spelled “repetitive”(?)

  • http://notesfromnancy.blogspot.com NancyGail

    HOLD IT! What a lengthy dialogue. I was under the impreession this piece was written due to people in the religious community supporting illegals. At least one is a Catholic priest. I know the reason for political asylum. But if those in Mexico would put the same energy into be raising their voices to protest conditions which are put into the protest in Amercian streets, THAT would turn things around. Vicente Fox needs to go.

  • sr

    MCH#116. That was forceful. Or is it fartful.

  • Heloise

    You’re wrong–people ARE clamoring to get into France. And yes they do pay high taxes on all goods and services. But at least they are not fat. My second language is French, but I can’t seem to get a job teaching French because the racist system here goes all the way to Canada to get French speaking people from there to come here to teach. And naturally they are all white women.

    But aside from that I would leave the US and move to France. Why? Because they treated me fairly and better than they treat most whites who visit. Why? Well, I did speak their language, much better now. And they seem to prefer the exotic to the white bread…sorry about that.

    Besides they find writers and intellectuals as heroes rather than people who simply run around with no clothes on, who can’t act, and makes lots of money to not be worthy of their time and attention. I do think they are a little mad about The Da Vinci Code making it so big.

    I loved I M Pei’s pyramid entrance to the Louvre. It was being refurbished when I was there because the French gov’t had part of it as offices and they moved out to a building near the Gare de Lyon. So, I have not seen everything in the Louvre but I did see La Jocund (sp) or the Mona Lisa. I was disappointed that it was so small, surrounded by plexiglass, roped off and always had a crowd around it.

    Heloise (forgive my rudeness it comes with French territory)

  • Joey

    I never thought the French were rude… just French. What’s the problem?

  • Heloise

    Joey, where have you been? Rudeness is the sine quo non of being french. In fact that is what the word “frank” means–rude.

    Heloise

  • Arch Conservative

    Beth and anyone else reading.

    If pointing out the inaccuaret statements that Chris makes about America makes me a twit then I am a twit.

    He says there is more crime in America so I provide interpol states which show he is wrong.

    He says america has too much state control and I point out that we are not nearly taxed as much as europe and that our healthcare system is not govt runned or owned.

    He claims Americans are rude and ignorant then makes the statement that he doesn’t care about global population shifts and the reasons for them ..labelling them as American trends.

    And anyone who has been to paris can tell you that the french that live there are pretty much the most xenophobic, smug, and rude people on the planet.

    He claims that life is more violent in the USA than Europe. I could provide statistical data on international crime from international sources that shows this is actually not true but he’d just ignore it because he’s the one who is arrogant and unwilling to admit that his notions of the world are anything but 100 percent accurate.

    You call me a twit but I’m not the one insisiting that things are the way they are just because I percieve them to be that way. I’m actually pointing out facts, citing studies, providing case data etc….

    But Chris isn’t interested in that because he is after all a superior European and anything offered by me is to him “American ignorance.”

    There’s no reasoning with a person like this.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    “inaccuaret”

    mwuahahahaaaha

    pwned

  • Arch Conservative

    Yeah you can’t actually respond to the content of anything I said so you have to harp on a typo.

    How pathetic.

  • Joey

    Good gracious Heloise, being frank… I always thought was being up front, truthful…. I’ll defer to Webster on this (the 1955 unabridged, thank you very much). I found this particularly good edition… on trashday… on the curb, waiting for futher distribution… in front of a School teacher’s townhouse no less…

    Frank (4). Free in uttering one’s real sentiments; not reserved; using no disguise; candid; open; ingenuous; outspoken.

    Still not a problem. The French have always been “French” so why is there surprise, when they speak frankly… it’s thier nature. And I really don’t have a problem with that, it’s refreshing.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Archie, once again your life in fantasy land leads you to make a mistake.

    Nothing you are writing here is worth taking seriously because it’s a load of prejudice and hate and not even a coherent set of ideas never mind a rational political or social philosophy.

    On that basis, your own pathetic comments aren’t really worth taking seriously so I mocked you falloing victim to your own pretention.

    How comedic!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    My my, the two of you, Bing and Chris…

    Look, America is a great place to live. If you are not Jewish, it is an even greater place to live because you don’t feel like the sugar in someone elses coffee…

    Just make sure you have your health insurance and stay out of the way of Somali thugs…

    I don’t know about France – but the French Chief Rabbi says that Jews there should not display outward signs of Jewishness. So, that means it’s not a particlularly safe place for Jews. As for the rest of you, so long as you don’t look Jewish…

    As to the topic itself, I fail to see how in a society that pretends to be not dominated by one religion (i.e. America), how whether one supports or does not support illegal immigration can be a relevant issue to Christianity.

  • Arch Conservative

    I guess someone like you would consider factual data from international sources concerning global emigration and immigration trends, taxation, and crime fantasy Chris.

    You’re the one living in a world of prejudice and your own blinding pre-conceived notions Chris. Your obvious derision and scorn for anything that threatens these notions, no matter how firmly rooted in reality, is quite pitiful.

    By the way you spelled falling wrong in your last post. I only point it out because you have done it to me with such glee….as if typos actually mean something other than the poster made a mistake in hitting the wrong key.

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Ooh, look at the nasty man trying to pretend to be the voice of reason. I think I almost preferred the blatant hatred and sneering.

    For the record, you didn’t present any facts at all, just some statistics snatched out of context accompanied by a whole load of bile and bullshit.

    I didn’t point out your typo with glee, more irony laced with pity really – but you carry right on sucking up your self-righteous certainty and making up fantasy criticism that has ZERO relationship with reality.

    Ruvy, I think you’re getting the wrong end of the stick; I’m not criticising the USA just the delusional way that Archie is picturing both it and Europe.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Chris, you’re talking to an ex-pat. I understand all to well what you are saying – and not saying…

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    Ruvy, as I’m not “not saying” anything, I don’t quite know what you mean. Just for the record, I’m quite a literal guy (I think it’s the autism!) and if I didn’t say it, I wasn’t thinking it, most of the time!

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Chris, what you didn’t say was that many Americans are provincial fools with no real conception of the world. Then again, some very unprovincial Americans write for Blog Critics. In fact this site is blessed with some pretty sophisticated belly scratchers…

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    a society that pretends to be not dominated by one religion (i.e. America)

    I don’t pretend that we’re not deminated by one religion. It’s impossible to miss that domination.

    The only ones I know who do make that pretense are the Christian right, so they can further pretend that they are an exploited and persecuted minority.

  • Arch Conservative

    Well there is a double standard whe it comes to which religions you can bahs in this nation.

    The new york times will publish pictures of piss jesus and elephant dung mary but not the danish cartoons making light of islam.

    It’s not ok for children to say chrisitan prayers or give thanks at lunch but it is ok for the public school system to teach about islam and make kids recite muslim prayers?

    The ACLU sues every time a student expressing their own thoughts at a high school graduation even comes close to mentioning Christianity.

    The new york city council says it’s ok to display menorahs but not kreshes during December…….

    Hypocrisy abounds in our society with the way Christianity is treated. The rabid secularist crowd that routinely misinteprets and misapplies the first amendment slectively attacks Christinaity while ignoring displays of other faiths.

    If by dominated you mean that Chrisitanity is the most practiced and influential religion well then that may be more acccurate but that is only because we were founded by predominately Christians and the majority of Americans today practice it.

    If you don’t like that………..

    Well that’s just too fucking bad……

    I hear it so often said by secularist atheists………. keep your god off of me…

    Well I say keep your secualr athesit bullshit off of me!

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    The new york times will publish pictures of piss jesus and elephant dung mary but not the danish cartoons making light of islam.

    Yeah. Perhaps that’s not so much bias against Christians as bias against people rioting in the streets and burning down embassies.

    It’s not ok for children to say chrisitan prayers or give thanks at lunch but it is ok for the public school system to teach about islam and make kids recite muslim prayers?

    Every part of this statement is bullshit. There is absolutely nothing that says “it’s not ok for children to say Christian prayers or give thanks at lunch”…as long as they say it to themselves and don’t force it on anyone else.

    Islam is taught as current events and world civilization, which it is, and not as advocation of religion. Can you name a single example of a school making kids recite Muslim prayers?

    The ACLU sues every time a student expressing their own thoughts at a high school graduation even comes close to mentioning Christianity.

    The closest you come to having a point, although you exaggerate to a serious degree. The ACLU occasionally goes too far in this regard and saying any time they “even come close” is just silly. Unless you can provide several (READ: more than one) specific example.

    The new york city council says it’s ok to display menorahs but not kreshes during December…….

    First: What the Hell is a kresh?
    Second: The New York City Council was only, and that means ONLY talking about public schools.
    Third: The New York City Council DID say that it was okay to display menorahs.

    Hypocrisy abounds in our society with the way Christianity is treated. The rabid secularist crowd that routinely misinteprets and misapplies the first amendment slectively attacks Christinaity while ignoring displays of other faiths.

    Not true. Menorahs and Christmas Trees are both considered secular symbols. The “rabid secularist” crowd generally only attacks Christianity when someone wants to use public money to pay for those displays and put them on public property.

    If by dominated you mean that Chrisitanity is the most practiced and influential religion well then that may be more acccurate

    That is EXACTLY what is being said.

    but that is only because we were founded by predominately Christians

    Half true, in that just about half of the people at the Constitutional Convention were Christians. Interestingly, though, no Christian was elected President until Andrew Jackson in 1828, more than forty years after the Constitution was written.

    and the majority of Americans today practice it.

    Which makes it hard for American Christians to claim that their religion is in any danger.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com/ Michael J. West

    Incidentally,

    here

    is the court decision for what I assume Bing is talking about–although as usual he gets the details wrong–in terms of “kids being required to recite Muslim prayers.” It makes a lot of sense, if you actually read it all the way through.

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    Mike, I’m not going to argue the issue here, but there is one point I’d like to make. You write, “Menorahs and Christmas Trees are both considered secular symbols.”

    What you mean to say is that the Hanukkiah is a secular symbol. The Menorá is the seven branched lamp that was in the Tabernacle that had to be kept lit at all times, and is not only a religious symbol, it is the original religious symbol of Judaism. The Hanukkiah, by contrast, is the nine branched lamp used to light the Hanukkah candles.

    I think Bing means a creche, a depiction of a cradle, in comment #134.

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    My apologies, Ruvy. Are a Menorah and a Hanukkiah as easily confused as I suspect? Or do they have very distinctive forms (aside from the number of branches)?

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    They are as easily confused as you suspect – and don’t feel bad. Lots of secular Jews don’t know the difference between the two either. I know it took me a long enough time to learn!

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    It should be pointed out that a quick Google search reveals how often Menorah and Hanukkiah are confused, making it a little difficult to discern which the New York City Council has condoned (and probably a little tough for the City Council to be certain).

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    Another point: The New York City Council ALSO said that it was okay to display Christmas Trees in the public schools. If the Hanukkah symbol is indeed the Hanukkiah and not the Menorah, it’s pretty clear that they are only giving the greenlight to SECULAR symbols.

  • MAOZ

    Well, strictly speaking, the word “menorah” in Hebrew doesn’t necessarily have to refer to the one in the Mishkan [“Tabernacle”] or the Miqdash [Temple]. “Menorah” means “lamp”. So a Hanukiah is simply a specific type of Menorah. The well-outfitted spelunker will also have a menorah: specifically a “menorat metzach” [“forehead lamp”, i.e. a headlamp].

  • Ruvy in Jerusalem

    MAOZ, you’re only going to confuse these poor people. Yes, you are right, menorá means lamp. But its first mention is in the Torah with a careful description of how it is to be of one piece of gold, with three branches coming out from the right and three coming out from the left, etc.

    A Hanukkiá is a specific type of menorá, but one that is more secular in nature than the one described in the Torah. A menorát métzaH is modern Hebrew and a modern invention for spelunkers in our country who can afford them…

  • edson

    don’t mix this with religion please.
    you don’t have an idea of what christianity is.

  • http://www.jingerjarrett.com Jinger

    Actually I do, and I also know what the Bible says. You didn’t read the thread or you would know that this became an issue when George Bush decided to let these people stay. He’s supposed to be a Christian.

    Also, with both the Catholic and Presbyterian Churches intervening on behalf of immigrants, religion has already become involved.

    If I were any other religion but Christian, I would be allowed to have an opinion on this issue. This is my opinion. Think what you like. You’re entitled.

    Finally, dispute what I have said. Do these people have a right to be here? No.

    What makes you an expert on what being a Christian is? Christ certainly wouldn’t have condoned breaking the law to get what you want.

    Regards,

    Jinger Jarrett

  • http://alienboysworld.blogspot.com Christopher Rose

    What’s that story about Jesus attacking money lenders in a temple? Wouldn’t that have been lawbreaking?

  • zingzing

    no, it’s a temper tantrum.

    so… christianity became part of this issue when bush (supposedly a christian) let illegal immigrants stay…

    what? where does one follow from the other?

    catholics and presbyterians, coming to the aid of immigrants? that’s a bad thing? aren’t christians SUPPOSED to help the less fortunate? isn’t that part of being a christian?

    you know, if christians weren’t so goddamned confused all the time, no one would doubt their judgement. “If I were any other religion but Christian, I would be allowed to have an opinion on this issue.” ha. oh my. the down-trodden christian. whimper. whine. if you didn’t couch your “opinion” in some idiotic argument about religion, then your religion would not matter one fucking bit.

    you are totally backwards, not only in your “opinion,” which is incredibly simplistic in a very complex issue, but also in your “christianity,” which is, again, a perversion and simplification of what it means to be a christian… you ignore the parts you don’t like… like being humane, i suppose.

  • arthur

    nonsense

  • John

    Every time that I hear people say that illegal immigration is not a christian thing all I can say is put yourself in their position. The people who come here are not the ones who are wealthy and rich they are the ones who need the most help and come here just to earn a few bucks to be able to help themselves and their family back in Mexico or where ever they are from. Who did Jesus hang out with? The tax collectors, prostitutes, and people with leprosy who were rejected by society. Do you really think Jesus would take a poor illegal immigrant and just ship him back because what he did was not right. NO!!! He would have had compation on them and help them, not throw them back!!!!!

  • Jamie

    I am married to an illegal from south of the border, and he works in a kitchen, pays taxes, that he does not have the right to claim, free money for uncle Sam, and he goes to church w/ me and our children (christian church) every sunday, our children attend school at our church, and he is a great person, he is learning english. He also has 4 brothers, that live very similar lives. So to say that “they” do not pay taxes is false. There are a handful, I’m sure, who are bad aples so to speak, but for the most part thay are kind, christian, hard working people. I know more “americans” who are lazy, gossiping, medling people than i do “mexicans”. Ya know, you can’t judge an entire group of people. All I read in this article was hyprocisy. Yeah lady, look at yourself, and take care of YOUR own. I’m sure that illegal immigration has very little impact on you personaly. God loves ALL his children.

  • Samantha

    Just because a person lives in the united states and is not a citizen does not mean they are greedy or thieves. In fact the bible says:

    “Execute true justice, show mercy and compassion everyone to his brother. Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless, the alien or the poor, let none of you plan evil in his heart against his brother.” Zechariah 7:9-10

    Many illegal immigrants do pay taxes, and came here like everyone else in the search of a better life. My family came during the potato blight from Ireland and we were all oppressed too. Maybe not the rights of a U.S. citizen, but a human living in our country, yes deserves rights.

  • Samantha

    people born in the united states are u.s. citizens only if one of their parents is a u.s. citizen. whoever wrote this might want to check their facts. And if a u.s. citizen has a child, not matter if the other parent is a citizen or not, that child should be a u.s. citizen, regardless.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    people born in the united states are u.s. citizens only if one of their parents is a u.s. citizen.

    Wrong. See the 14th Amendment, the 1866 Civil Rights Act, and U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, among others.

  • Samantha

    actually i was referring to the CCA or Child Citezenship Act that came into effect in the year of 2000, not 1866.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    No, unless you were quoting from the article or someone else’s comment – which it didn’t appear you were – that’s not what you were talking about. You claimed that you had to have an American parent to be an American citizen.

    The CCA is an attempt to remedy the curious constitutional loophole whereby children born overseas, even if both their parents are American citizens, don’t have an automatic right to citizenship themselves.

    People born in the United States are (with a very few exceptions) automatically citizens, regardless of their parents’ nationality or status.

  • Clavos

    “The CCA is an attempt to remedy the curious constitutional loophole whereby children born overseas, even if both their parents are American citizens, don’t have an automatic right to citizenship themselves.”

    When was that in effect, Doc?

    As you know, my siblings and I were all born in Mexico (the youngest of us is 50), and I don’t recall any of us having to do anything special to get our US passports. Do you know when it became non-automatic?

  • DinTN

    Jamie-
    May I ask whos Social Security number is your illegal invader husband is using in order to work in that kitchen?
    If he is illegal he is NOT able to work here legally and is no doubt destroying some honest American worker’s credit and employment history. More possible using some choilds SS number that won’t know about the illegal activity on his/her record until applying for a job or credit!
    You condone that illegal action of your illegal husband’s and say you attend church?
    Hipocritical and un-American!

  • Chucksta

    Regardless of the religion issue, the points made in this article are very true.

  • afromujer

    I am torn about this issue. On the one hand, I agree a Christian should not support illegal activity, even in the case of a poor immigrant. The Bible says in Deuteronomy 16:19 that in justice. “you shall not show partiality”. Also, Exodus 12:49 says, “One law shall be for the native-born and for the stranger who dwells among you.” There are several other verses saying the same.

    However, there is a significant amount of care that should be shown to a “stranger”, or foreigner among us, according to Deuteronomy 10:18-19: “He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt.” Also, Jesus said in one of his parables about the Kingdom of Heaven, “Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
    for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in” (Matthew 25:34).

    I think my conclusion is that the “stranger” should obey the laws of the land and identify themselves honestly. However, even if we must administer justice, we should respect the “stranger” and do not oppress them by splitting up families (I know personally a sad case of this) or put them in jail if they are trying to get back to their own country (I know some illegal Mexican immigrants are afraid to go back to Mexico because they might get arrested at the border).

  • Karen

    With all due respect, I think that you are on the wrong when you say that supporting illegal immigration is not Christian. God is all loving and does not discriminate toward anyone because of their legal status. I was brought to the USA as a baby, illegally, and I am proud to say that today my parents and I are citizens. I am in love with a wonderful man who is illegal and who’s only mistake, in your eyes, is having come to this country to help support his parents back home. I know their is a group of people that break the law and ruin everyone else’s reputation, but I do ask you to please not catagorize all illegal immigrants as criminals. That is not Christian!

  • John Poshepny

    Illegal Immigrants need to get the hell out of America, we’d have a much lower unemployment rate if it wasn’t for these slime bags.

  • Cindy D

    Bah. If you want to punish them, make them live inside your head. I think I’d leave the country.

  • ben

    fuck all of u the immigrants sgould go back over the border

  • http://www.yahoo.com/brunette_baby77 Shelby ***

    I am an 18 year old WHITE girl and I have read the bible dear!!!! i didnt want to be the one to tell some of you this but you truely are a bunch of idiots!! I would just like to state that the person who wrote this artical must be very closed minded and incapable of seeing past the little things .. because if they would have then seeing the big picture might have not been such an obstical ..obviously.
    for starters.. the only law God requires you to follow is his law!!!all his requirements are right in the bible inorder to live a rightious life. If they comply with the goverment then so be it and if not it doesnt matter because when we get to the “other side” none of this will matter .. it will be depended on if you lived rightiously or not!!! And btw the unemployment rate is not high because of illeagal immagrants …. if you are seriously not equiped to the degree that an illeagal immagrant would have takin your place at a job then im sorry but i rather have them doing it!!!

  • [left intentionally blank]

    So here’s the deal. (This could be considered slightly off topic of your article).
    I keep reading through facts that illegal immigrants take jobs that Americans DONT WANT or can’t do.
    I understand that some people can’t do the jobs the illegal immigrants are doing as of now. But for those who don’t want the kinds of jobs illegal immigrants take?!
    Seriously, I’ve been hearing a bunch of people complaining that they take our jobs. But even if jobs were open, will they actually take them? Seriously!
    I need someone to explain this matter, please.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    It hasn’t really been tried. That’s the usual argument for menial jobs in the agriculture industry, for example, and by-partisan, I might add. Some people argue that you could demand that the people on welfare take those jobs as a precondition; but there hasn’t been any strong legislative push in that direction to change the laws. So we don’t really know what the response would be.

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    I think that it’s interesting that many Christians cite Romans 13 to basically say that we should unconditionally and blindly obey all laws the government passes except those that directly contradict the Bible. But they conviently seem to forget about Romans 13 when it comes to illegal immigration. They rationalize breaking immigration laws and letting illegal aliens stay here on “compassion” and “they’re just coming here to get a better life”. So, let me ask you, if I broke into someone’s home and stole money and food, then I stole their identity and took their job, would you want me convicted and punished? I’ll put money on the fact that you would!
    Second, if you think that it’s so much better to help them than send them back, why don’t you take you’re lazy butt over to Mexico and Columbia and all those other countries they’re coming from and help them? I’ve done that. I’ve gone to Mexico and helped build houses and schooles and done what I can to make their lives better without them having to break the law. You can have compassion on them and help them without condoning, encouraging, or helping them violate the laws of this country.
    Third, how do we know illegal aliens are taking jobs Americans won’t? Can you show me proof? I’d bet that if illegal aliens were suddenly gone, that there would be millions of American citizens lined up to take those jobs. Especially now during hard econimic times.

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    And as a side note: I’m the 18 year old son of a legal immigrant.
    Someone once said about illegal immigration “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” in reference to American citizens wanting illegal aliens punished. OK, then let me. I’m not the one who broke dozens of laws to get here. I’m not the one refusing to pay taxes. I’m not the one smuggling drugs here to pay the human smugglers. I’m not the one throwing rocks at Border Patrol Agents trying to kill them. So, hell yeah, let me throw the first stone.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I’d bet that if illegal aliens were suddenly gone, that there would be millions of American citizens lined up to take those jobs.

    Then where are they? Why aren’t they lining up now?

    Especially now.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    DD,

    Things have change just a tad since Jinger Jarrett penned this piece three years ago. It was obvious to me then that the States was going down the toilet – but now I have to SHOUT to be heard above the FLUSHING NOISE of you guys going down the toilet.

    Have a good trip! And remember. Israel is behind you!

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    They’re not there because illegal aliens are still here. The illegal aliens haven’t left, so employers aren’t being forced to hire people who demand certain wages, lunch breaks, etc. Illegal aliens, for the most part, know that they can’t complain to the government about unfair treatment at work because they’ll be deported. But if they were gone, employers would have no choice but to hire citizens/legal immigrants. The problem is also compounded by welfare. Not only are illegal aliens providing employers with an alternative to high wage demanding people, but those high wage demanding people don’t WANT to get a job because they’re getting money without having to work for it. I guarantee that if people weren’t on welfare, they would be out there demanding the illegal aliens be deported so they can get jobs. It’s really just simple economics.

  • http://twitter.com/tolstoyscat Cindy

    Hey border patrol person,you’ve looked at the other side of the story and you still feel that way? I’m surprised.

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    Why are you surprised?

  • http://twitter.com/tolstoyscat Cindy

    I’m surprised because, having parents who are immigrants, I would think you’d object to what’s been done to the Mexican people by the U.S. and their government. How can you justify taking away peoples’ land like that? And what about the maquiladora factories? You don’t sound like you’d put up with that if Mexico were able to do that to the people of the U.S. Would that be okay to do to your mom and dad or sisters and brothers? Take away their land and force them to work in sweatshop conditions, like slaves, amid toxic pollution and in tent cities?

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    So, what exactly has the U.S. government done to the Mexican people? As far as trade goes, I don’t buy anything that comes from Mexico specifically because of how the workers are treated. I don’t like it, so I don’t support them by giving them my money. It’s that simple. And if the government doesn’t like it, they should stop all trade with Mexico.

    Taking their land? We won the land fairly. Americans made an agreement with Mexico during the 1800’s to live in what is now the American Southwest. The Mexican government increasingly broke agreements with Americans. That’s what started the Mexican-American war. You really should go back and learn your history. We certainly take their land, but we only took it after they initatied a war with us. And we don’t force them into their current working conditions. We support it. But, again, that’s why I don’t buy anything from Mexico.

    And if you’re so concerned, what do you do to stop it? What do you do to help them? If you’re really concerned, you should be helping them a lot.

    If you condone, encourage, and enable people to break laws the government legitimatly makes, you shouldn’t have a double standard. Again, would you be as sympathatic to me if I broke laws and stole from people because I’m poor? If not, you’re a hyprocite!! If yes, then you have no concept of law and order. If you want to excuse people from immigration laws based on poverty, you must also except everybody else from prosecution based on poverty.

  • Kyle

    Illegal immigration has a lot to do with Christianity. Three things to take into mind, Love your neighbor as yourself, which ties right into the second, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, and third, the story of the good Samaritan.

    So many you use Romans 13, but remember, you have the right to violate civil law in order to obey God. And not in one place in the whole entire Bible does it way we must respect the government! Paul nor God would ever say that!

    Here is the big one, Abortion is legal, so if you think it is God’s wish for you to respect the law then start respecting abortion.

    Luckily for me I do not have to respect the law.

    As a Christian that believes in true Biblical love, I truly believe that Christians that are all for closed borders are selfish pigs. I mean to say, that they are saying, “hey I am an American, they are not, why the hell should I share with them?”
    I will give you the answer! Hell! got it?

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    You’re right, the Bible doesn’t say to respect the government. But it does say that we must obey the government when it commands something because it’s a divine institution with God given authority to, as the Bible says, reward the righteous and punish the wicked. You only have the right to violate civil law if the law 1) commands/prohibits something the Bible commands or prohibits, and/or 2)the government doesn’t have the authority to make that particular law (such as guns, speech, religion, etc.). The government isn’t forcing people to get abortions, so there’s no reason for people to get one since it’s not only wrong, but the government isn’t commanding people to get one.
    The government is simply saying that if people want to come to this country, they must meet certain requirements. If they don’t meet those requirements, they can’t come in. It’s that simple.
    According to your logic, you’re a selfish pig if you don’t allow anybody into your house that wants to come in. If a drug dealer wants to come into your house and you tell him no, then, according to your logic, you’re selfish pig. In that situation you’re saying “Hey I’m Kyle and he’s not. Why the hell should I share with them?”

    The two situations are essentially the same. This country is my home just like my house. And just as I can make rules about who can and can’t enter my house, the people we delegate our authority to (the government) can also do the same.

  • Raoul

    JC would support humans no matter what country they were from.

    JC would encourage all of us to give and help people who need it.

    JC would not care what the laws of the government are. He knows we need to answer to a law much higher than that.

  • Statue Of Liberty

    “Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Great words.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Here’s the link to the above.

  • Raoul

    Please, no more neo-cons misinterpreting JC in order to preach hatred.

  • KL

    Jesus was absolutely NOT telling people to respect the government officials of the Roman empire…. He was mocking their monetary system. He was saying that Christians should follow a “higher” law. His statement is purposefully ambiguous. The people who asked him this question intended to trip him up, so they could arrest him for treason against the Roman authority. Jesus, by the by, was one of the original non-conformists who validated moral civil disobedience. Like Socrates, Thoreau, Gandhi, MLKjr, Harriet Tubman, Susan B. Anthony…These men and women knew that sometimes the state, our government, the standards / laws, can be wrong. When laws are unjust, Thoreau says, “transgress them.” Some of our Immigration laws are unjust. Any Christian, atheist, Muslim, or other who opens his arms in mercy and empathy to his fellow man would have the vote and support of Jesus. He, first and foremost, supported brotherhood over blind following an earthly authority. Jesus stood for humility, modesty, poverty, mercy, generosity, empathy.

    This article supports none of these qualities.

  • http://takeitorleaveit.typepad.com/ roger nowosielski

    Nice statement, KL.

  • Joining the Border Patrol

    To KL:

    How would you reconcile that with Romans 13 where Paul tells us to obey the goverment since it’s an authority established by God? My personal beliefs on the subject are that I MUST obey the laws unless 1) it goes against what the Bible says, or 2) it’s unconstitutional. Since the immigration laws don’t violate either one of those requirements, I don’t think that breaking those laws is justified.

  • rick

    i wanna correct what the initial author of this debate said, i agree with him or her. but when Jesus said “Render unto Caesar the things that are of caesar and render unto God the things that are of God.” What He meant was this, the roman coin, the denarius was a coin smaller than an american dime, on the coin was an engraved scripture of Caesar on it, and the words inscribed were “caesar is divine.” What Jesus, the LORD was saying was “give caesar the things that were created in his image but give GOD, ME, the things that were created in MY image.” Who and what was created in GOD’s image? Us, human beings, in other words, “don’t sweat the small stuff, give your life to Christ, this stuff here doesn’t matter, Jesus Christ is eternal life.” Romans chapte 13 is a good example to address this, verses 3-4 clearly state that if you “fear the law it is because you are a wrongdoer of the law, but if you do not fear the law it is because you abide by the law.” Let me ask you a question, if you a question, if you’ve been drinking and driving and get pulled over are you afraid of the law? of course you are, if you been driving sober and went through a dui check point are you scared? of course not because you are abiding by the law. A lot of people responding to this site don’t even know what it is to support a family or an individual period. listen to me, charity starts at home, if you can’t even helop your own, how can you heop people outside of your home? that’s like me saying “i can’t fix my own debt problems but i want to help you fix yours.” Here’s the bottom line, i see a lot of “oh don’t go there” comments, that shows me you either live with your parents and don’t support yourself so how can you comment. Let’s get real, i am a prior veteran. let’s talk about our troops, we’ve been doing a great job, we finally shut the Al Quida down in Iraq, no thanks the liberals, and we are on ou way to taking out the taliban in afghanistan in they would let us fight. Obama thanked the troops so much that he gave them a 0% raise this year but wants them to pay taxes to people who do not even have a right to be here. let’s face it, how many illegal immigrants actually want amnesty? they are doing better off being illegal than they would being legal. right now, they get paid under the table, no taxes, tax free, get free hospital care if they are ill. if obama grants them amnesty and they step forward, how many do you think actually would step forward? If they stepped forward, this would be the consequence: they would have to pay taxes, have a SSN, and pay for medical insurance because by 2012 it is required by the obama administration. that’s a loss to them, so how can we ensure that they actually want to step forward? You can’t because it is a possibility that most of them don’t want to because it would hinder them financially and would take away certain regulations that would be imposed. You gotta ask yourself a question, “am i an abider by the law, or am I a breaker of the law?” a crime is a crime, and the law needs to be upheld, otherwise, what’s next? Let’s create a scenario, I’m not a member of costco, but let’s say i decided to invade costco and protest their prices on lawn furniture. when the manager asks me “are you a member here?” and I say no “I am a member at sams club” he shall say, then go back to sams club. and i agree, if i’m not a member at costco, how can i feel that i have the right the protest costco when I don’t even pay the costco prices? there’s no justification and same thing with this illegal immigration issue. the only people who are opposed to Arizona are people who are either illegal or have family members who are illegal. Now, i understand, my dad married married my mombecause he m et her in the vietnam war. He didn’t mean to fall inlove with her, but after two tours it just happened, he met her working at a sandwich shop which her dad owned. She got her mom, her said and her brother over here in america LEGALLY, at first they were on a passport, then a greencard, then finally they got their citizenship. and that’s what everybody needs to do, you want to be a citizen of this country? then quit jumping border and do it LEGALLY.

  • AfroGirl

    Some illegal immigrants DO pay taxes. It seems as if you do not personally know any illegal immigrants, based on the comments you are making.

  • Native-Princess

    So I guess it was Christian for white people to kill indians and rape their women and bring over diseases and steal land?

    The Bible also says “Woe to those who make unjust laws” and this law is unjust. It will cause families to be separated and people to be racially profiled by how they look.

    And FYI “illegals”(which last time I check we were are humans but guess not to you) do pay taxes! I know people who pay them! So get your facts straight!

  • Laura

    The illegals do not get welfare but if they have a child born in the US, then that child gets benefits. How do I know this? I work with it daily. So if the parent is getting food stamps because they have anchor babies, then they are also really getting food stamps, welfare etc.

  • Dr. Richard Stafford

    Every single undocumented (illegal) family in America pays property taxes, every month, just like legal resident. They do this through their monthly rent on apartments and houses. The land lord takes their rent and then deposits a portion of it in escrow until the property taxes are due at the end of the year. There are NO exceptions in the US, except for parsonages. The rent that illegal immigrants pay goes to the funding of public schools and hospitals and running of local governments. County tax offices do not have a sign that reads, “If you are illegal, you do not owe property taxes this month.” They all pay and they all contribute. They also pay the same sales taxes at legal citizens. And most, that is, all who work for larger companies and farm operations also pay federal taxes, state income taxes, Social Secuirty taxes and medicare. Illegal immigrants are NOT exempt from any taxes and are REQUIRED to pay just like everybody else.
    Dr. Richard Stafford
    [personal contact info deleted by comments editor]

  • Joe Brown

    OK im a student at a christian college and i can see what you are saying but if you want to use verses in the bible what do you do when an orphan or a widow comes to the border? Jesus tells us specifically to take care of them.

  • http://www.squidoo.com/lensmasters/IanMayfield Dr Dreadful

    I think you’d be surprised, Joe, at how many Bibles that page accidentally falls out of.

  • Kyle Hunter

    Who dubbed this “writer” the judge of what is and is not Christian?

  • Joe Brown

    Its sad how many pages “accidentally” fall out of bibles

  • bob

    the current law and giving care to forign nationals in need are not mutually exclusive.

    christianity informs on every aspect of a christians life. How can it not? To say you can cut it out of a christians life per topic is to misunderstand or not fully comprehend the subject.

  • Just saying

    What I want to know is how do you/they get away with being here illegally? I mean your suppose to have a birth cert. and ssn to get a job or go to school or to do almost anything! Even if you use a made up ssn and a fake birth cert. wouldn’t it eventally ‘red flag’ the government – like when you file or don’t file your taxes every year and ect…? I just don’t get how they/you can have a legit job, home, car, education, ect… even if you use made up one’s and get away with it for years and years.
    I do understand why someone wants to be here and I know that not one person is actually here legally (since there is no more 100% Indians anymore)but I think everyone should do it lagally. And pay taxes, ect… legally like all of us who do so.