This year the women’s winner at Wimbledon will make $54,000 less than the men’s winner, but they are still overpaid.
Wimbledon, the only Grand Slam tennis tournament to have unequal prizes for the men’s and women’s winners, is getting grief from all quarters for not following the lead of the Australian, French, and U.S. Open tournaments by paying equal prize money to men and women.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - sal m
that's the whole point of my item...less play for about the same pay.
27 - Dipti
To summarize your argument:
#1: Women play fewer sets.
Well, that isn't up to the women is it? It is circular logic to make a rule which forces women to play limited sets and then use that rule to justify paying them less.
#2 Female athletes overall at this event earn more than men
This is because they play more tourneys, including doubles and singles, than the men.
Perhaps your opinion is based on a lack of research and knowledge, and (hopefully) not just sexism. If so, I strongly urge you to read battle of the sexes. It will explain the issues at hand for you with numbers, or facts if you will, and might help you to understand why this problem is so much more well defined and complex than your writings about would lead any reader to believe.
28 - sal m
actually the link you provided just is an attempt to deflect attention from this central point that the author makes.
"If you have to start calculating the per-game earnings, then you should already know you are not where you need to be. In many ways, the heads of Wimbledon are misleading everyone and still living in some alternate reality. While it appears that the women make more per game, it is true that they are just about second-class citizens in every other aspect of the tournament, as well. The best match times and courts go to the men. The better facilities currently go to the men. I've even heard it discussed that the men even get the better officials and judges on the green grass. The women's final for many years was broadcast on tape delay, while the men's final was live. I wonder what the cost per game all that is."
all the other stuff is window dressing. the author never refutes the point that women make more per game than the men.
if it were up to me, i'd have men and women play best of 5 and pay them the same. let the women prepare and play the extra sets and pay them the lousy $55K for their troubles.
personally, i would rather have the choice to work/play less and make more for my time spent.
if this was about men and women being equal, those who want equal pay should base their argument on playing 5 sets, not on making equal amount for less work.
in my item, i mention that the top 10 women make more overall, but this fact doesn't have an effect on my opinion that the prize money is just fine as it is.
perhaps you should re-read my item and comments, for nowhere can any reasonable person attribute any of my comments to "sexism," a nice little term people use rather than speaking about the facts.
if you want to lead the charge to have women first play 5 sets, and as a result get paid equally, i'm right there with you. if you just want the same money for playing less, you're just someone who wants a handout for the women players.
29 - manfred
I have been thinking and it occured to me that women physically aren't as strong as men. They tire more easily. For example the Dutch army does not distinct men and women for their physical trainings and last year there were complaints from the women that they just couldn't keep up with the men. It was too heavy for the women.
Having women play 5 sets would I think end up with women protesting that they can't keep up.
Also have you seen the amount of injuries on the WTA tour. Some of them can't keep up and are retiring (Kim Clijsters) or some are so heavily injured by the power tennis that they cant lift their arms anymore without feeling pain (Jennifer Capriati).
In my opinion, they should get paid equally because physically they do about the same as the men with 5 sets when they play 3.
30 - sal m
manfred:
you're contradicting yourself.
on one hand you say that women aren't the physical equals of men, but on the other had you say that they should be paid the same despite not being able to perform at the same level, and that somehow the relative effort level that the women can perform at is reason enough for equal pay.
that just doesn't fly and certainly doesn't represent equality in any real sense of the word.
31 - Maurice
I read the article but not the comments - so I apologize if anyone has already pointed out that the women are by far much more entertaining. The mens points tend to end quickly especially on grass. The women have longer more entertaining rallies. I have been to all the grand slams except the Australian and typically avoid the mens matches.
32 - Harlequin
Manfred - by your logic I could play one set and get paid the same as the champion as physically to me that would be about the same amount of work. I am all for equality and agree that there are many cases where women are underpaid for doing the same ammount of work but tennis simply isn't one of them.
33 - Kris Kieslowski
From Jon Wertheim's Tennis Mailbag on cnnsi.com:
Why do you find it so hard to understand people only deserve the same pay if they do the same amount of work? Of course male and female employees should be paid equally. In Burger King, a woman who works three hours gets paid the same as a man who works three hours. But, if the man consistently works at least an hour extra every day they work, it is preposterous to suggest they should be paid the same over a two week period.
-- Ciaran Lisburn
Since when do athletes get paid by the hour? This whole line of argument about duration of match is really a red herring. Is Superman better than Sideways because it is an hour longer? It's about entertainment. Unless you can credibly quantify an economic difference, I don't see you how justify paying different wages.
34 - sal m
whoever jon werthheim is, he should be grateful that with his lack of reasoning skills that he is able to blog for a big time site like cnnsi.
people like werthheim never address the issue from the standpoint of having the women play the same length matches as the men, or from the standpoint that it is in fact unfair for the men to play longer matches and get paid less as a result. if it the length of the matches don't matter, why don't the men play best of three?
they make incorrect comparisons - like the length of movies or people getting paid hourly "wages" - rather than discuss the basic issue. it's convenient for these people because when you take this position - that the length of matches doesn't matter - you don't need to know anything, and you can just shoot off your mouth.
35 - Maurice
All you have to do is check the endorsements of the players. Women players get more money in endorsements than men. Why?
Why are the stands filled for the ladies matches?
THEY ARE MORE ENTERTAINING. Which translates into money.
36 - sal m
if that's the case, then great for the women...if the women's game is so entertaining let's get more of it, and have them play the best of 5. i have no problem with that. if it's all about equality nobody else should either.
if women's tennis is so great - and i'm not arguing that it isn't entertaining - then why aren't people clamoring for them to play best of 5? at least in the last two rounds of big tourneys?
37 - Kris Kieslowski
But there are many situations, both athletic and non-athletic, where amount of time spent working is not the one and absolute only thing that determines amount of payment.
You'd be more convincing if you'd explain why prize money in tennis should depend so totally and exclusively on playing time, instead of claiming that anyone who suggests that there are other considerations is "just shooting off his mouth."
(Go Maria!!!!)
38 - Maurice
I would argue the other side - Mens tennis has been seeing declining numbers because it is too boring and lasts too long.
McEnroe has proposed less powerful raquests for years. His point is that the points would last longer. I think he might be right.
Longer points less sets.
39 - sal m
these points, which you were a part of, were laid out last month...check above.
40 - Maurice
sal - don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
I didn't join this discusion until #31. I even stated that I had "read the article but not the comments..".
You are probably referring to your own post #22.
If you knew more about tennis you would realize that it suffered a decline in interest in years past and it was determined that LENGTH OF PLAY was part of the problem. Tennis has always been viewed as "television unfriendly" simply because it just goes on too damn long.
As far as fitness - why would that ever be a measurement for salary? Geez!
41 - sal m
actually maurice, i posted my response to kris...at the time i was posting, kris' comment was the last one (#37).
and if you weren't interested in being a smart ass and actually knew something and did read the comments above you wouldn't make your laughably off-base and demonstrably incorrect comment about fitness not being a measurement for salary. for fitness is the key component as you go up the competitive ladder and those at the highest level make more money and need to prep more. at higher skill levels more prep time is required. for a simple example, look at amateur boxing versus the top professional boxing.
and as i stated previously, despite the fact that the female tennis player that i worked with always needed to prepare for best of 3 matches from high school on up through professional, we constantly had to adjust her training to reflect the increased difficulty of her level of play. and furthermore, her prep varied greatly from that of men who had to play best of 5.
42 - Maurice
The interesting and marketable part of tennis is the brain part - not the brawn. I don't care which player trained harder so they can 'go the distance'. I care about the 'thinking player' that can put together a point that requires power and the element of surprise.
I agree with your last paragraph that fitness is required to participate. When it comes to laying out my $600 bucks for a seat at the US Open I don't care how many situps the player did - I just want to see good matches.
Finesse trumps fitness. Quality over quantity.
43 - sal m
maurice:
even though we seem to disagree, i don't think it's by much.
finesse comes from fitness, just as strength and power does. just as skill does.
44 - MCH
Ok sal...but now for the important question...
Who's got the best boobs in women's tennis?
I'm partial to Serena Williams as no. 1, and Kim Clijsters, in second place.
45 - sal m
mch:
that's a dicey friggin' question there, especially since some of the gals on the tour are barely of consenting age...suffice to say, i'm not a "boob man" - even though some may think that i'm a boob, man - and that i admire the female form in all its athletic versions.
46 - MCH
sal,
Yeah, FWIW, I did hesitate before I asked...but I read an article on Chris Everett years ago in a national magazine where the author actually came out and wrote, "The general consensus is that Chrissy has the best boobs on the tour"...so I thought it was OK to bring it up...
47 - sal m
hey, it's fine to bring it up...let's see if we get some fresh blood as a result!
48 - MCH
How about best legs?
I'm partial to the gams of Muaresmo, Capriati, Graff, Sabatini...for starters...
49 - sal m
mauresmo is a good call, even though she could care less what us guys think.
sharapova is my call.
sabatini is an even better call...she was kournakova before kournakova was, plus she actually could play tennis.
50 - manfred
The best looking girl: Maria Kirilenko :) No doubt about it, great legs , great everything ;)
-manfred
51 - sal m
kirilenko...just checked out some photos...she looks like she's perilously close to jail bait!!;)
52 - MCH
Federer's off to a good start...up 3-0...hope he can keep it up...
53 - miss kelly
I wrote about this issue on my blog, and looked at stats from Wimbledon, comparing some stats for Nadal & Federer and Mauresmo & Henin-Hardenne.
I enjoy watching both men's and women's tennis, but generally the mens's games are technically much better (less unforced errors, greater variety of strokes and techniques). Many of the women's finals have been colossal bores, which you don't usually see with the men's finals. The Mauresmo/Justine final was a goodie though.
54 - miss kelly
Best legs? Federer. Best butt? Sampras.
55 - sal m
good points all, miss k...but sampras?!!??!!?
56 - MCH
Oh yeah...I forgot best butts:
Martina Hingis, Serena Williams, Anna KourniKova, Jennifer Capriati...
57 - Tyedyesky420
Plain and simple play 5 sets get payed for 5 sets. play 3 sets get payed for 3 sets if you cant understand that then i dont know what to tell you. if you think they should get paid the same for doing less then you yourself are the reason for inequality. You want equality just for the sake of gender without doing the work. what a joke. Everybody is so politically correct today its sickning.
58 - Tyedyesky420
sry..and also if that were the case then everyone in the world that works should get paid the same ...i just dont understand ur thought (or lack of) process. do you people even think about the crap u spew out of ur mouths.
59 - Tyedyesky420
and if you people would do a little research b4 shooting off ur mouths u would see that the mens events rake in more money than the womens. i could go on all day but u ignorant ppl aren't worth it. this comment may get censored but hay its the truth.
60 - Tyedyesky420
god u ppl just erk me so. equal pay for unequal work say it in ur head a few hundred times and it might sink in just how moronic that way of thinking is. ppl like u that make this country unbearable to live in. u've been told that ur opinion is just as important no matter how baseless and unfounded it is.
61 - Tyedyesky420
ok im done now just dont know how u ppl funtion u truly do only use 10% of ur brains lol bye
62 - Tyedyesky420
ok really this is the last one....chew on this for a minute....why do these athletes get payed all these millions of dollars . is what they do so vital to this world that it would stop spinning if they didnt PLAY anymore. their salaries are why u pay $6.50 for a freakin hot dog not the other way around. why dont they pay these individuals a decent living wage and charge u $5 to go to the game. oh yeah what this country is founded on GREED.ah screw it just wastin my time u'll never understand
63 - Tyedyesky420
lol....sorry just saw the posts about jailbait tennis players....ya this countries morals are real strong...kill the crap out of ppl for land, oil and numerous other reasons i.e. wars but god forbid u find a 17 year old attractive. lmao at every body in this world.
64 - duane
Ease off the caffeine.
65 - Tyedyesky420
typical american. nothing useful to say just the usual cliche'.
66 - duane
Running about a 9 on the tension scale there, pal. Decaf. Seriously.
67 - Tyedyesky420
no just fed up with stupidity
68 - Tyedyesky420
ran in to this forum by accident. and it physically pains me to see the way ppl think in this world
69 - duane
It's just sports. It doesn't really matter.
70 - Tyedyesky420
i probably could take a whole different tact but but as i said b4 im the most politicaly inncorrect person u'll ever run in 2. i say whats on my mind and i dont watch what i say. thats the point of the 1st amendment but that is mainly just for show anyhow nobody abides by the constitution anymore anyhow. just ask ur prez.
71 - Tyedyesky420
now that matter
but im getting off the subject sry
72 - duane
Politically incorrect is just fine. But it's usually the case that insulting people with opposing viewpoints, no matter how stupid the viewpoints might be, is a guarantee that they won't listen to what you have to say. Everybody loses. Still, it's sometimes fun to blow off a little steam. Even I, the most reasonabe person you'll ever run into, do that once in a while. Cheers.
73 - Tyedyesky420
it seems as if ur an inteligent person and i respect that its just the blind following of these cliche' social issues that infuriates me at no end. i also find it highly amusing that these multimillionaires are bickering over 50 g's.
74 - J
How do you know women athletes prepare less than men? Maybe they prepare more.
You are biased.
75 - claire
i think Wimbledon's right not to pay them as much as men because they do spend less time playing. Plus if they're winning Wimbledon why the hell do they care if they don't get that little bit more money..? They've just WON WIMBLEDON. I think they should look at it with just a tad more perspective.