On the day he turned 35, (June 26) Derek Jeter had 65 more career base hits than the all time hit king, Pete Rose, had on his own 35th birthday. While he has faced constant criticism about his defense and lack of power at the plate, it is time to recognize, as evidenced by his hit totals, that Jeter is indisputably one of the greatest hitters of all time.
At the age of 35 only Robin Yount, Henry Aaron, Ty Cobb, and Rogers Hornsby compiled more hits than Derek Jeter. And in a head-to-head comparison with Pete Rose, Jeter tops the hits leader in nearly every important statistical category.
At his present pace attaining 4,000 hits is a real possibility for Jeter and, with the assistance of health and longevity, he may even challenge Rose's all time record. As previously noted, Jeter is outpacing Rose in hits at age 35, but that is only a partial view of the comparison at that age:
Rose: .311 avg, .381 obp, .814 OPS
Jeter: .316 avg, .386 obp, .844 OPS
Jeter even has nearly 200 more steals than Charlie Hustle, racking up 292 to Rose's 106. By nearly every statistical measure Jeter is easily the more complete and prolific hitter, so by this conclusive analysis it seems only fitting that Jeter — as long as he stays healthy — is capable of making a run at the all time hits total.
Beyond the typical Jeter-centric criticisms, many feel that, because of his position, he will not be able to display the longevity that Rose possessed, and this will prevent him from reaching 4,000 hits, never mind the 4,257 it would take to top Rose. In reality, Pete only had four more prolific seasons after 1976 when he turned 35, topping 200 hits only twice. But because Pete hung around in the league until he was 45, he was able to amass such a seemingly insurmountable total.The unfounded perception that Jeter is declining at 35 is based solely on last year's numbers. While 2008 was admittedly a down season for the Yankees' captain (his 179 hits broke his three season streak of topping 200 hits), his .300 batting average and .363 on-base percentage were still very good, even while his career-low .771 OPS reflected his lack of power and run production. He scored at least 100 runs and knocked in 70 in every full season except last year (88 runs, 69 RBI) and the injury-truncated 2003 (87 runs, 52 RBI). It was a tough year for the Yankees in 2008 and Jeter was not immune from the effects of their struggles.
Article comments
1 - Matthew T. Sussman
If Jeter gets to 4,000 hits, he will have to switch positions, yes. But I'll take that a step further. He will also have to switch teams. At the time it wasn't believable that Rose would get his 4,000th hit as a freakin' Expo.
I know Jeter's a True Yankee and loves the Bronx and New York and the pinstripe mystique ... but if John Smoltz can be a Red Sock, Glavine and Mays can be a Mets, and Trevor Hoffman can sign with the Padres, you have to believe there's a strong chance of it happening.
And yeah, it doesn't happen with Yankees as often... but you get a gold star if you can name the team Babe Ruth played for in his final season.
2 - Tony
The Boston Braves, that's an easy one. Three home runs in one game.
But Ruth really pissed of management all around baseball. He even served as a third base coach with the Brooklyn Dodgers on a promise that he might be made their manager.
Otherwise, most Yankees finish their careers as Yankees. Gehrig, Dimaggio, Mantle, Mattingly, Williams. I don't see why Jeter couldn't serve as one of the better regular DHs in the AL for a long time eventually.
Pete Rose was different because he signed a big time contract with the Phillies before he went to the Expos. He then only went to Montreal because he refused to except a smaller role with the Phils so they released him. After one season with the Expos he was back with the Reds.
Jeter has a totally different makeup. I could see him retiring and not breaking the record if the Yankees tried to move him rather than him hanging on with another team just for the sake of breaking the record.
3 - Minderbinder
Roberto Alomar had more than 2500 hits on his 35th birthday, had been in more All Star games and had more gold gloves and silver sluggers than Jeter. Sure, Jeter is much more mentally stable than Alomar, but having this discussion at this point in Jeter's career is ridiculous.
4 - Tony
When only Yount, Aaron, Cobb, and Hornsby have had more hits than Jeter at 35 it is noteworthy. Whether or not he will play as long as Rose to set the record is highly questionable but it is also notable that he is showing no signs of erroding production.
5 - Tony
Also Roberto Alomar was done as a starter by 35, never had a 200 hit season, became a starter at 20 (Jeter at 22), had a lower batting average (.301), and worse OBP at .372. Even his .816 OPS was well below Jeter's mark and again, he was done after 35.
I hardly think Jeter is going to all of a sudden disappear next year. Allstar games and silver sluggers don't mean much considering Jeter played the same position as A-Rod mosto of his career and gold gloves literally have nothing to do with hit totals.
6 - Minderbinder
Thanks for explaining that gold gloves have nothing to do with hitting. The point is that Alomar was a premeire player with similar numbers at the same point in his career then fell off a cliff. This might be a good topic in 5 or 6 years if Jeter can average 200+ hits during that time. Discussing it now just because it was a fun fact from the announcers during the Yankees - Mets game last weekend is foolish.
7 - Tony
Actually, as I just showed you, Alomar had worse stats that Jeter.
.301,.372,.816
.316,.386,.844
And again, Alomar was done after his 35th birthday. Missing that point is the only thing foolish I see. Jeter shows no signs of slowing up.
When a player is one of five men ever to be ahead of the all time hits leader at age 35, it is worth noting. As you see in the article, I question whether Jeter has the longevity to do it, which most doubt. Neither Aaron, Cobb, Hornsby, or Yount had Rose's longevity either. The point is to illustrate that Jeter is in a class with these players -- not Roberto Alomar -- and can conceivably make a run at the record.
8 - Minderbinder
Those are Alomar's lifetime stats including his two terrible years after he turned 35. I never said Alomar had better stats than Jeter, only that they had similar numbers at similar points in their careers. Jeter hasn't shown any signs of slowing up, but Alomar hadn't shown any before he turned 34.
It is not really worth noting Jeter's hit totals at this point in his career in the context of pursuing Pete Rose's record. As I mentioned previously it is possible it will be worth noting in 5 or 6 years.
The players you mentioned aren't in a different class than Alomar because of their hit totals through age 35.
9 - Tony
No, sorry, wrong again. Those are Alomar's stats through age 35. Baseballreference.com has this great feature now where you can highlight blocks of stats from a player's career and get totals, which I obviously did. The only difference between Alomar's stats to 35 and Jeter's are that Jeter, like Rose, began his career as a starter at 22, while Alomar began as a starter at 20.
10 - Tony
Alomar's career line is .300, .371, .814. Not all that different from his stats through 35 because he retired at 36 after playing for three teams (CHW twice) in two seasons. His last season that he batted over .300 was at 33 in 2001 and he never had a 200 hit season.
11 - Minderbinder
Baseballreference.com has that great feature that you obviously did incorrectly. On his 35th birthday Alomar's line was .304,.375,.824
12 - Tony
Hey, easy mistake, but its you who did it incorrectly. If you'll look at the year in which he turned 35 -- because he was so washed up -- he actually played for two teams. To get his true total, only highlight the "tot" line for age 35, not the two lines of "split stats" for the two teams he played for. I'm actually look at it right now, as I type this.
13 - Tony
really it doesn't matter because the point is, one guy was done at 35 and the other will probably net near 200 hits in his 35 season.
14 - Minderbinder
He turned 35 before the season started so I didn't include that season's stats, so I did it right.
15 - Jim Stevenson
I hope that Jeter breaks the hits record. I think that Jeter's place in Yankee history is cemented, but I think that his legacy will grow when he eventually plays second base! This will even add to his legacy of being the best professional, teammate, and captain. He is already is a legend, but it's crazy to see where his status will go if he become the hit king!
16 - Jim Stevenson
If there is two things that MLB want desperately is for Jeter to be the hit king, and a clean Pujols to surpass Bonds!
17 - HCMF
Good points, Jim.
If he walked away today, Jeter would have the better career - his avg, obp and slg are far better than Rose's, he has more rings and he is eligible for the HOF. It may be too early to discuss Jeter getting to 4000 hits, but he has already passed Rose in homeruns and steals, and is not far from eclipsing his runs and rbi totals (with nearly 6000 less ab).
Admittedly, I didn't get to see Rose play (until his pathetic attempt in the 80's to break Cobb's record with dink singles) but how does he get to first 4781 times (singles + walks) and steal only 198 bases (and get caught 149 times)? Not hustle, one would think. Rose was MVP with what could easily be called the worst MVP stats ever; he once led the league with a .324 average - by comparison Jeter came in second with a .349 average. He owes his "hit king" status to the false longevity (14,000+ ab and paltry .303 career avg) bestowed upon him just to see someone break Cobb's record, so I wouldn't say discussing Jeter's run at the same record is all that ridiculous.
I can see Jeter hanging around just as long (because he's far more productive), but Rose had one advantage - his salary. With Steinbrenner, the Yankees would have let Jeter play in NY forever, maybe even pull the player-manager Rose trick. But there's a big difference between his current pay and what a sane GM will pay for a 40-something secondbaseman or DH with little power.
Also, just think of the whining ten years from now when a Yankee is the career leader in virtually every offensive category - Jeter, Rodriquez and yeah I'm claiming Henderson.