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Some Thoughts on Conspiracy Theories

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Sometimes it seems like conspiracies are everywhere, that there are shadowy forms moving behind the facade of the world, and nothing is really as it seems. For most of us this would be a sign that we're losing control of our grip on reality and sliding into paranoia. For a select few, it's just the way they view the world.

Conspiracy believers seem to be driven by a certain amount of self-loathing and a feeling of powerlessness which drives them to look for scapegoats wherever they can to blame for taking opportunity away from them and keeping them down, rather than accepting and acknowledging their own shortcomings and trying to do something about them.

Perhaps if we try to understand them and their beliefs we can avoid falling into the same trap and becoming like them.

The Nature of Conspiracies

Much of the time what looks like a conspiracy is just an appealing idea which gets picked up on by more than one person or group with similar interests, with no collusion or organization. The shortage of Nintendo Wii game machines is not the result of a conspiracy, just of many different people wanting them at the same time.

Not all conspiracies are necessarily malevolent. The American Revolution started as a conspiracy and the Sons of Liberty were a secret, conspiratorial organization. Yet I'm pretty pleased with how their efforts worked out. I don't even mind the fact that they were terrorists.

Conspirators are extremely unlikely to engage in nefarious deeds which are against their own best interests. Any conspiracy theory which requires them to do so for obscure motives is almost certainly wrong. Like minded people working together to accomplish something which they think is desirable is not necessarily a conspiracy. The Democratic Party is not a conspiracy and neither is the Council on Foreign Relations. You may not agree with their goals and objectives, but they've got as much right to pursue them as you do to oppose them.

The more individuals a theory requires to have engaged in conscious acts of evil, the less likely it is to be real. Secret conspiracies requiring the cooperation of entire races, nations, or classes of people are extremely unlikely.

To do real harm, conspiracies need to be secret. If a bunch of people band together publicly to do something in the open they are a 'movement', not a conspiracy. Ron Paul supporters are not a conspiracy.

When you start to try to connect together wildly different groups as part of a super-conspiracy you know you've gone too far. WalMart is not in league with the Peace Corps to take over the world.

Logical Fallacies Common in Conspiracy Theories

Most conspiracy theories are established based on one of several common logical fallacies, which may appear to be true to the believer, but fail certain basic tests of logic and evidence. Some of the most common are:

That one conspiracy can be proven to exist does not prove the existence of any other conspiracies, even if they are superficially similar. (Proof by Example)

Even conspiracies are innocent until proven guilty. You cannot study a possible conspiracy from the starting point that it is a conspiracy and then start looking for evidence to support that assumption. The evidence should lead you to the conspiracy, not the other way around. (Existential Fallacy)

Simple questions don't usually require complex or far fetched answers. When you burn the roast it's more likely to be because you left it in the oven for too long than that orbital laser platforms fired on it. (Inductive Generalization)

The fact that a belief is shared by many does not mean that it is correct. At one point 72% of the American public believed there were active WMDs in Iraq. (Argumentum ad Populum)

Just because someone famous says something is true, that doesn't mean it is. Mel Gibson is a great movie director, but he's not a holocaust expert. (Appeal to Authority)

You cannot prove that a conspiracy is real by proving that there is no evidence that it is not real. (Argument Ad Ignoratiam).

Just because something happened after another event or in association with another event that does not mean that one thing caused the other. UFOs began to appear at about the time that televisions became popular. That does not mean that televisions cause UFOs. (Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc).

The fact that someone or some group benefits from an event does not mean that they conspired to cause the event. Lyndon Johnson benefited from the assassination of John F. Kennedy. That does not mean that he conspired to cause it. (Argument from Benefit).

To absolutely prove the existence of a secret conspiracy your argument for the existence of the conspiracy must be the only one supported by all the facts. To have a valid conspiracy theory your association of events with a conspiracy must be more credible based on all the facts than any other explanation for those events, including any proposed by the suspected conspirators. The Burning Man festival is not a conspiracy and neither is the Bohemian Grove. (False Dilemma)

Mistaken Identity and Wishful Thinking

That an organization holds secret meetings, has a secret membership list or is joined by invitation only does not make it a conspiracy. Country clubs and sororities are not conspiracies.

When two or more famous or influential people meet together that doesn't mean they're hatching a plot or launching a conspiracy. Richard Nixon met with Elvis. That doesn't mean he hired Elvis as an undercover DEA agent and faked his death.

There really are powerful groups that have agendas and want to influence events in the world. They are almost always proud of their agenda, state it publicly and think it is a good thing, even if you disagree. The Council on Foreign Relations has an agenda, but it's not secret and it's got nothing to do with uniting all of North America into a single nation. Conspiracies generally don't have websites, magazines, and PR departments.

If you can buy stock in it it's not a conspiracy, it's a company. Halliburton is trying to make money for its shareholders, not rule the world.

The Conspiracy of the 'Ruling Elite'

The fact that the membership of a group is made up of the rich, powerful and influential does not make it a conspiracy. The NBA is not a conspiracy.

The ruling class doesn't need to conspire together to seize wealth and power. They already have it. They don't want your Honda because they already have a Hummer. If there is a conspiracy to seize power look for it to come from an angry and powerless group in society.

The more people who are involved in a group and the more prominent they are, the less likely it is to be a conspiracy. Have you ever seen a politician who wouldn't like to win votes by exposing a conspiracy and being a hero?

The ruling elite want to keep the lower classes fat and complacent. They are not going to conspire to needlessly oppress or impoverish them. They want you working hard and making money for them, with plenty of food in your belly, a big screen TV to keep you occupied so you don't plot revolution and a 401k plan so you don't come begging at their door and trampling their hedges when you're old.

Real Conspiracies

Yes, there are real conspiracies. They are usually composed of very few people with a strictly defined and limited goal and they can indeed be extremely dangerous.

McVeigh and Nichols conspired to blow up the Murrow Building. The 9/11 hijackers were part of one of the largest real conspiracies, probably involving scores of people and lasting for years. Given their ambitious goals and the number of people involved it's a near miracle that they were successful.

Once a conspiracy is widely identified as a conspiracy it rapidly loses effectiveness and will either self-destruct, go public, or direct its efforts elsewhere.

When a suspected conspiratorial group lasts long enough to develop arcane rituals and an obsession with secrecy, that's a sign that it is engaging in mysticism to compensate for a loss of real power. The Bohemian Grove is laughable and pathetic, not threatening.

The claims of individual members and former members of a group suspected of being a conspiracy should always be taken with a grain of salt, especially when addressing the group's origins, history and purpose. Group members love nothing more than to inflate the importance, accomplishments and mystery of the group they belong to and former members love to get sympathy for being hunted by powerful enemies.

To refer back to the section on logical fallacies, the fact that there are real conspiracies does not mean that all suspected conspiracies are real.

Know Your Conspiracy Theorists

Just as you have to look at who would benefit from a conspiracy, you ought to consider who benefits from promoting belief in conspiracies. If someone is building a carer on promoting conspiracy theories he is the first person you should look out for.

One of the first things a conspiracy does is find some other group to accuse of being involved in a conspiracy in order to distract from their own activities and give their followers an enemy to unite against. So when you hear talk of conspiracies look closely at the real motivations of the accusers.

Conspiracy theories are classic examples of the 'big lie' principle in practice. The more outrageous and improbable they are the more likely those inclined to believe are to believe. They could never conceive of telling such a giant whopper themselves, so they assume that the most far fetched story must be true. It's too outrageous NOT to be true.

More and more it becomes clear that conspiracy belief originates in a perverse form of populism where demagogues like Lou Dobbs and Alex Jones paint anyone who has been successful in business or politics as a criminal elite exploiting and dominating the rest of humanity. They play to the fears of those who feel weak, powerless, and uncertain and offer them the strength of irrational confirmation of their worst fears in place of reason.

Conspiracy theorists are often very free with comparisons to Hitler, Mussolini, Nazis, and Fascists when applied to the actions of government and business. Yet they are blithely unaware that they are responding to exactly the same arguments which motivated Hitler's brown shirts in very much the same way.

Conspiracy promoters are often xenophobic and target particular groups which may or may not have actual power as the source of all the problems which good people (those who are part of their self-identified group) face. Jews have been a traditional target, but Catholics and immigrants have also been and remain popular targets.

Apparently once you accept one conspiracy theory it's easy to accept others. Many conspiracy believers seem to have their critical filters turned completely off and rather than just believing in selected conspiracy theories they accept them all as real, accepting an entire sort of altered reality.

Belief in the mystical truth of the existence a conspiracy requires no factual evidence. It is in many ways just like a religion. When challenged, unreasoning faith can become dangerous fanaticism very quickly. Because their beliefs cannot be tested by logic, conspiracy theorists become especially strenuous in their defense and often prove utterly impervious to reason.

Many conspiracy theories are easy to dismiss as harmless. Who really cares if a handful of people believe the earth is hollow and full of mole men? But even the most seemingly harmless bit of fabulism can become dangerous when believers attempt to make it the basis of actions in the real world, such as medical treatment or a political movement. When actions are being taken which impact peoples lives, welfare and liberty it is incredibly dangerous to base those actions on a theory or a suspicion rather than on empirical reality.

Even worse, perhaps, is the role which obsession with conspiracy fantasies can play in distracting from real threats. A farmer who spends all of his time worrying about alien cattle mutilators and chupacabras may overlook an outbreak of hoof and mouth disease. Medieval doctors who leapt to the conclusion that Jews were conspiring to poison wells overlooked the fleas which were actually causing the Black Death. Similarly, if we spend all of our time worrying about the grand plans of the Rockefellers and Rothschilds we are likely to overlook the more immediate threats posed by petty tyrants closer to home.

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About Dave Nalle

  • Ralph

    “When challenged, unreasoning faith can become dangerous fanaticism very quickly. Because their beliefs cannot be tested by logic, conspiracy theorists become especially strenuous in their defense and often prove utterly impervious to reason.”

    This is the one thing that has caused more pain and suffering in human history than anything else.

    Good article. Question. Given the above, how do you propose the human race proceed in the future? It would seem that the only solution would be the elimination of those who are impervious to reason. But that runs counter to many social and moral beliefs and cultural norms, does it not?

  • troll

    Ralph – your proposed solution fits right in with the great Sustainability Conspiracy…

    500,000,000 or Bust

  • Doug Hunter

    Interesting, I have a problem understanding the exact definition of conspiracy though so it even makes the water murkier. Take lobbyists for example, from a person without inside knowledge of the deals it could appear that these guys are conspiring to ‘steal’ funding, get beneficial legislation, or place bureacratic hurdles to their competition. Since they do that mostly behind closed doors with the legislature it is sort of a ‘conspiracy’. I don’t know the fundemental difference between common occurences like that and the more extreme examples of the US destroying it’s own towers or alien invasion (not from mexico).

    Whether they’re secretly plotting to take over the world, or secretly plotting how to funnel $50 Mil of taxpatyer money to a big contributor, it’s all a conspiracy to me.

  • http://www.booklinker.blogspot.com Deano

    Ha! You may mock them now, but when the inevitable rise of the mole men begins, you will pay for your transgressions! Your puny fortified compound cannot withstand their mighty mole-powered fury!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Good point Doug. I agree, it’s hard to pin down exactly what IS a conspiracy, because so much of what is feared by the conspiracy theorists doesn’t seem secret or conspiratorial unless you’re part of the conspiracy buff mentality. I have a hard time getting my head around the mentality that treats NAFTA as if it were a conspiracy when it’s a publicly published and signed treaty with easy to understand provisions.

    One reason why this article is kind of long and rambling is that I tried to address a lot of different aspects of the subject individually, because it’s so hard to present a unified theory of conspiracy mania.

    Fear the mole men!

    Dave

  • Clavos

    My cat has tried to convince me for a long time of the mole men’s conspiracy.

    Whenever I let her out into the garden, she runs into the corner where she believes they are, scratches frantically, and then relieves herself on their heads. At first, I though she was merely going to the bathroom, but what else would explain the fact that she always goes to the exact same spot?

    Coincidence? I think not…

  • Dan Miller

    Interesting article, Dave, but it does not really tell me what a conspiracy is. There are some conspiracies which are just fine.

    I may conspire with some of my wife’s friends to have a surprise birthday party for her. We may try to keep the event a secret from her until it happens. We may actually buy a birthday cake and presents. That is not a criminal conspiracy, nor is it one upon which most people would legitimately frown.

    I may conspire with some of my friends to have my neighbor murdered. If there is an overt act in furtherance of that project, then it is a criminal conspiracy and we should all go to jail.

    As I vaguely recall from law school, it is possible to have a criminal conspiracy to do something not in itself unlawful. It is one thing to establish the price at which my merchandise will be sold; it is unlawful to conspire with my competitors to establish the price at which we will all sell our merchandise, provided that some overt act occurs in furtherance of our conspiracy.

    Many conspiracy theories are so absurd that they are downright funny if for no other reason than that they would have to involve so many people that secrecy would be impossible. The theory that President Bush conspired with various wicked people to have the World Trade Center demolished by multiple passenger aircraft is in that league. Leaving aside that there is no creditable evidence that he did such a thing, thousands of people would have had to have been involved, each of whom would have had to remain silent for many years. Further, this theory tends to be advanced by the same folks who claim that President Bush is so stupid that he needs help in finding the bathroom adjacent to the Oval Office.

    There are probably some who believe that the U.S. Air Force conspired with little green critters from Mars to hide both their existence and their obviously evil intents. These sorts of conspiracy theories are fed by official secrecy in areas where there is no need for secrecy; certainly as to events which allegedly happened many years ago.

    Many people desire explanations for strange happenings, and when the actual circumstances are unnecessarily shielded from public view, conspiracy theories arise. That is normal and natural. In the absence of a satisfactory explanation, some people believe[d] that lightning was sent by their god as punishment for wickedness. Some people still adhere to this view despite overwhelming evidence as to the causes of lightning.

    And, of course, there are some people who are just plain nuts.

    Dan

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    In the process of writing the article I also found that it’s a lot easier to define what is not a conspiracy than to define what is one, as you point out, Dan.

    Dave

  • Gray Hunter

    “WalMart is not in league with the Peace Corps to take over the world.”

    Yeah, they want it all for themselves, the bas –

    I’ve said too much.

  • duane

    No more mole men jokes? Awww…. Look, since you can’t prove that the mole men are not scurrying around Subterranea, just dreaming about the day when they will eradicate the scourges of the surface world, I figure there’s a 50-50 chance that they’re down there. (I know my math.)

    Dan: There are probably some who believe that the U.S. Air Force conspired with little green critters from Mars to hide both their existence and their obviously evil intents.

    No doubt about that.

    These sorts of conspiracy theories are fed by official secrecy in areas where there is no need for secrecy….

    There often IS a need for secrecy. When an organization is believed to be keeping something under wraps, the best way to relieve the pressure put on them by “snoopers” is to release false information in a way that makes it look like a big secret got leaked. The conspiracy hounds will then be all over the “leak,” and the real secrets are easier to protect. (See Area 51 and Roswell).

    …certainly as to events which allegedly happened many years ago.

    It’s not a question of timeliness. Secrets that are obsolete often need protection, not because of the information itself, but because releasing secrets can, in some cases, help snoopers piece together the manner in which the secret was protected, making it all the easier to crack the organization.

    Finally, just because there are projects and organizations that are secret with respect to the general public doesn’t always mean that the secrets can be protected from every outsider. For example, the Manhattan Project was kept secret from the public right up to Hiroshima. But spies are so good at infiltration that the secret was not actually kept secret from Stalin, for example. The Russian A-bomb program was stalled in WWII primarily for financial reasons (the war machine was dedicated to fighting off the German army), not because they lacked the knowledge or expertise.

  • Baronius

    “Apparently once you accept one conspiracy theory it’s easy to accept others.”

    That has always interested me. I see three possibilities: One, that the type of person who is prone to believing one is likely to believe more. The problem with this is that criticizing a conspiracy theorist on these grounds is very close to the logical fallacy of “poisoning the well”.

    Two, that the shattering of faith which comes from accepting one fringe explanation makes a person less likely to believe mainstream explanations of other things. I’ve seen this happen in my own life, to a limited extent. I remember seeing something on the CBS News and thinking, “that’s interesting…I wonder if it’s true?”.

    Third, and closely related to number two, is exposure. If you spend time with people who believe in spacemen, you’re likelier to hear about the CFR. Thus the conspiracy culture perpetuates itself.

  • STM

    Dave, I agree with everything you’ve written except those traitorous Sons of Liberty and the revolutionaries who got into bed with the French.

    The notion of Americans being oppressed prior to the revolution is a myth.

    If anyone is looking for reasons to explain the penchant of Americans (and particularly American women) for what is known in other English-speaking countries as “high hair”, look no further than that moment a couple of hundred years back when America chose to side with bouffant-headed, bad-cologne wearing, stale-tobacco reeking, reverse-favouring frog-eating nancy boys to gang up against real men (the sons of Celts, Saxons and Vikings) who just happened to be their own kith and kin and to whom they owed their very existence and even their current way of life.

    Pack of bloody ingrates …

    And don’t say you weren’t warned about the French.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Dave, I enjoyed reading this (scary thought) Whom did you conspire with to write it… Oh by the way UFOs have been reported as far back as Ezekeil(sic) reported seeing one in the bible-That and those pesky “foo fighters” in WWII. :) of course someone conspired to keep them a secret.

    If more than one person knows it, by definition it’s no longer a secret….

    but don’t tell anybody.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Please forgive this friends, but I know SR would’ve posted…DEATH TO ALL GAY CONSPIRTORS!!! God I miss him… RIP old friend.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    STM-What? no drag queens????

  • STM

    Come on Jet, it’s not just drag queens.

    American women are famous (infamous??) for their bouffant hairstyles.

    Great look too, especially when nicely accessorised with those padded, wide-shoulder power suits they used to wear in the ’80s.

    I remember being in a New York bar once on a Friday night and wondering whether I’d fu..ed up the address and mistakenly walked into a sci-fi convention populated by skinny, nervous-looking, sniffly men who all seemed to have a cold and tough-looking female clones with high hair, tight foreheads (cosmetic surgery??) and padded shoulders.

    Blame the French for this.

    The only people who should wear pads are American footballers, in case they get a bit of a knock.

  • Condor

    “Oh by the way UFOs have been reported as far back as Ezekeil(sic) reported seeing one in the bible-That and those pesky “foo fighters” in WWII. :) of course someone conspired to keep them a secret.” – Jet in Columbus

    What that statement doesn’t do is explain why the descriptions of UFO’s have increased in detail and complexity along with advances in special effects in cinema… from 2 moon style hubcaps to something out of Alien vs. Predator. I love computer graphics… they really come up with some wild visuals. But it also feeds the subconscious with visions of technicality that were not present it descriptions of UFO’s 50 or 60 years ago.

    I actually saw a UFO once… after a minute of scrutiny it was an AWACs plane flying at a target angle with the sun reflection blurring the details of the aircraft outline. But, at first glance and for 30 or 40 seconds, it actually looked saucerish, smooth, and traveling without sound (as the wind was to my back). That was an epiphany to me. I understood why people think they see certain things.

    Psychology Today ran an article some time ago which explained abduction reasoning. There are cases reported back in the middle ages of Gargoyles etc… Which to the observer are “really” there, but according to the article, it’s chemically induced in the mind. Or, perhaps that’s a conspiracy theory too.

    Wiki CT, nice list, some of which you all have heard from time to time. I had an acquaintance who was a retired USAF colonel, who actually was a rocket scientist… that dude was scary. He was quite off, I would reckon, but listening to him speak, with authority mind you, was convincing. That also proved to me how some of these theories manifest. They come from authoritative sources who have bought off on the theory. Just because Leonard Nimoy (the name of the TV series escapes me at the moment) suggested that the description of a wheel of fire in the Ezekiel text was extraterrestrial, doesn’t make it so. Many prophetic texts from a variety of sources contain obscure passages, which do not translate well, and whose meaning is simple not understood present day. Any half-hearted study in entomology would bear that out.

    Dave, good homily to CT. I’ve heard a number of them through the years, and have seen a couple of people who have altered their lifestyles radically and have not come anywhere close to their potential in life because of it. Who suffers? Their families. Some families become dysfunctional, some suffer financially, some CT believers end up in jail for things like tax evasion.

    I would even hint at CT and belief therein as a type of mental illness. Being duped is one thing, but believing in the “green man” or that ”we didn’t land on the moon,” or the earth is flat, or even (OMG!!!) U.F.O’s is mental confusion. I’m convinced of it.

    Regards – Condor

  • STM

    Nice post Condor.

    I have seen obsessions with consipracy theories described as a form of mental illness by medicos, in as much as those who believe in them – 9/11 truthers are a classic example – have all the answers, while you have none and are therefore of no consequence. Shades there of narcissistic personality disorder.

    In my view, there is also degree of ordinary self-centredness involved, especially in a case like 9/11 where there is no real attention paid by the conspiracy theorists to the feelings of the victims’ relatives.

    I have also read that those who keep seeing conspiracy theories in almost anything, and always believe them to be right despite being presented with mounds of evidence to the contrary, may suffer from paranoid delusions.

    These are all generalisations of course and won’t apply to everyone. And in many cases there might just be a degree of immaturity, naiviety or a lack of intellectual reasoning power.

    Here’s my view: it’s right to question everything we are told by governments, but what they tell is isn’t always a lie.

    Most of the time they’re not. The lies are usually obvious, and quickly become obvious (like Bushco’s WMDs).

  • STM

    BTW Condor, I think Jet was just having one of his jolly little japes to break the earnestness.

  • Clavos

    G’day, mate,

    It’s been too long since you’ve been here to visit US. You say:

    American women are famous (infamous??) for their bouffant hairstyles.

    Except for the little old blue-haired ladies, that has not been true since the sixties and early seventies.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Clavos clearly hasn’t spent a lot of time in Dallas.

    Dave

  • http://www.conspiracybusters.com Adam

    This is an interesting conspiracy. Many people should know about this. We all know that freemasons basically run everything from drugs, to oil, to military. Maybe one day the new world order will be exposed for what it really is.

  • Condor

    I wasn’t busting on Jet, but he brought up a good tangent, which I find to be interesting (UFO theory).

    Believing in CT is sort of like the people who spend their entire working life, and income, on the get-rich-quick schemes which are so prevelant. I saw my ex father-in-law spend a fortune on every quick money scheme he came across only to die broke and leave his widow destitute as a result. It was absolutely crazy. He was also influenced by CT’s which he truely believed were the reason behind his business failures. Additionally, he was a tax evader. After his death from a heart attack which could have easily been prevented with a quad-bypass (but didn’t get because he didn’t trust doctors or hospitals) his accountant son-in-law worked the books and found out that over a 10 year period, the IRS/gov’t actually OWED HIM MONEY. Geesh…. what a case that guy was.

    ’nuff said.

    adios

    Condor

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Great piece, Dave, if not entirely consistent with your own beliefs. For instance, while the Democratic Party may not be a conspiracy, your apparent belief that it is packed with fanatical socialists who want us all to give up our personal property and be forced to consume free health services certainly is.

    BUT… how do you know conspiracy theorists are fallacious? Couldn’t the logical fallacies have been devised as part of the Great Global Conspiracy in order to discredit the arguments of the likes of Alex Jones?

    ALSO… Where’s Pablo??? Dave – have you used your masonic connections to have him bumped off before he can refute your article?

    I’d type more, but I must go: there are two gentlemen wearing black suits and dark glasses knocking on my front door. Now I wonder what they could wa

  • Pablo

    Pablo is alive and kicking, and will take the time out soon to discredit Dave’s conspiracy theory about 9/11, as well as others who like to lable those that question officaldom are mentally ill.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Dave,

    Good article. I wrote a fairly lengthy comment last night only to have it disappear into the ether. I won’t attempt to recreate it as much of what I had to say has been said above in one way or another.

    I will add, or reiterate if it’s already been stated above, that an empty grave set off what is now a nearly 2000 year old conspiracy which just keeps on giving.

    B-tone

  • Silver Surfer

    Clav, what seems normal to you in terms of hair height or thickness – “bug hair” – is in fact regarded as VERY high, or quite big, elsewhere.

    So even though it seems like that predilection for high hair/big hair from the 70s and 80s has vanished, it actually hasn’t.

    It’s just a question of perception. Granted, it’s shrunk. But since it was much higher/bigger than anyone else’s in the first place, it’s only shrunk to the level that was regarded as high/big anyway everywhere else. Get ma drift mate??

    What I think is high hair or big hair and what an American thinks is high or big are two completely different things :)

    We know that Americans like to be biggest and best, and when it comes to hair, you blokes are right on the money.

  • Silver Surfer

    “Bug hair” … no, I wasn’t doing a New Zealand accent. (Q: What’s a hindu? NZer A: Lays iggs, bro!)

    Typo … I did mean big hair, as in Dallas style.

    Also, I believe that “Big Hair” is a conspiracy theory by the hair product companies based in the US. You know how these things work … once you’ve used a thickening shampoo/conditioner, you’re hooked for life.

    A bit like Big Oil, and we know how those bastards operate.

    I understand there is a special hairdressing unit of the CIA (known as Creative Services, and I know it’s true because I googled it), which has used the CFR to spread American hair products across the globe and corner the market.

    See, America did learn SOMETHING from the French.

    If anyone’s in any doubt here, look at Garnier and the way they marketed their Fructis range globally using actors from Sex and the City which has consistently rated its tits off (literally) across the world, even on re-runs.

    Very clever stuff … but none of you would have guessed any of that would you??

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    How about this for a conspiracy: Bush still owes big oil more than a few favors, so he’s decided to pay them all back at once by covertly telling to raise their prices thorough the roof, and then he’ll give us grateful fools puny little “tax relief” checks that we all know will go right into buying a couple of tank-fulls of gas and be gone… right into the pockets of who else? Big oil.

    If this rebate is like the last “economic stimulous package” that we got from him in 2001, we’ll have to report how much we got on our 2009 returns and our refunds will be reduced by that amount.

    Face it the only people who will benifit from this year’s check is Bush and big oil… that and he’d COUNTING on us putting the rest into the banks to prop them up after the housing disaster of 2007-8

    As a matter of fact, the people who need it most aren’t getting the most. I’m on social security disability and workman’s comp and I’m only getting $300. Now here’s the funny part, I’m getting just enough last year that I legally don’t have to file a tax return, meaning I won’t have to pay taxes on what little income I’m getting. HOWEVER, in order to get a stimulous check, I have to file and pay taxes, which would amount to about the amout of my “stimulous” check of $300.

    whoopie!!!!

    Bush also knows that the “sticker shock” for his blatant financial con game won’t be realized until months after he leaves office, leaving the next administration holding the bag, along with a war he dragged out on purpose in order to not be blamed for the chaos that will be caused when we try to clean up his mess(es)

    …but of course that’s only my opinion!

    Jet

  • Clavos

    HOWEVER, in order to get a stimulous check, I have to file and pay taxes, which would amount to about the amout of my “stimulous” check of $300.

    Not true.

    You simply have to file a return. Doing so will not change your tax liability at all.

    If your taxable income last year was low enough you didn’t have to file a return, you won’t have to pay any taxes just because you filed a return in order to receive the rebate.

    My wife is in the same situation: she’s on SSDI as well. We’ve already filed her return, (which she would not have had to file otherwise), and she didn’t owe any tax, according to our accountant.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Well Jet, what you’re proposing is the kind of ‘reverse’ income tax which some have suggested, where anyone under a certain base income would get a payment when everyone else got refunds or made payments to bring them up to that minimum level.

    It’s budgetarily unsupportable, but it’s a very appealing idea. The only workable tax plan I’ve seen which offers anyting like it is the FairTax, where the prebate would be paid regardless of income, so everyone would get that base payment from the pool of all taxes paid, even if they weren’t paying a lot in tax. Of course under that system you’d actually be paying some tax, but I think that overall you might be better off.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Big Hair is now an older woman thing (possibly an attempt to disguise not having as much of it as one used to). At least where I live, all females between the ages of 14 and 22 sport the exact same regulation Miley Cyrus hairstyle.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Living in a significant part of the bible belt I am often reminded of it when I venture into someplace like Bob Evans, Cracker Barrel or Wal-Mart and see what I refer to as the “early Nazarine” hairdo of many fundamentalist women – the high stacked “bee-hive” that has become pretty much the standard style of devoutly christian women.

    Additionally, they go to some lengths to render themselves as unattractive as possible without actually disfiguring themselves. Full, high-necked, long sleeved, ankle length, usually colorless dresses, “sensible” shoes, no jewelry and, it goes without saying, no make-up. They don’t want to take any chances on stirring up any loins. In some ways it amounts to a christian burka.

    Now the ladies’ male counterparts are not held to the same standard. While they generally are not outfitted as anything remotely related to a fashion maven, they generally dress as most other men do – slacks, perhaps jeans, and casual shirts. Only when dressed for church – which is often – do they sport what are generally cheap, off the rack, badly fitted suits, overly starched white shirts and bad ties, along with similarly unattractive sensible shoes.

    Am I describing a stereotype? I suppose. But I see them pretty much everyday. I guess I should stay out of Bob Evans, Cracker Barrel and Wal-Mart.

    B-tone

  • Clavos

    I dunno about Wal-Mart (haven’t been in one more than a couple of dozen times in my life), but your taste buds must have disappeared or something if you actually patronize the likes of Bob Evans or Cracker Barrel, Baritone.

    You just go in them to carry out your sociological research — not to eat, right?

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Calv,

    Uh, yeah, right. That’s the ticket! I go to those places just for science.

    I’ve gone from eating weinerschnitzel, wild boar steak, Turkish doner and falafel in Germany, to biscuits and gravy at Bob Evans in just a matter of weeks. What a life! I did join LA Fitness recently, and I actually intend to go there and do something. Soon.

    B-tone

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Hmmmm I called the IRS a few days ago and apparently just my luck there’s an income zone level where you don’t have to file a 1040A, however if you do, you have to pay taxes if none were witheld from your income. Since I’m collecting Disability which Social Security is lowering my payments because I’m also collecting unemployment, I fit into that tiny catagory… lucky me.

    Unfortunately I can’t afford fancy tax accountants to find me the kind of loopholes I’d need….

    According to the IRS I have to file a 1040A in order to receive it and that means inclucing the 1099 that I get which combines both incomes into one statement.

    Odd how no one mentioned we’ll probably have to pay back those check on next year’s checks?

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Consider yourself lucky Mr. B-around Columbus most of the women at Wal-mart are wearing burkas and babbling to their kids in arabic or something.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Also odd how no one wants to dispute that those little checks will either be deposited in a bank somewhere against Bush’s next financial disaster, or will go straight into Big Oil’s pocket for inflated priced fill ups at the pump…

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Dear Dave “Molemen Stooge” Nalle- I’m sure you think that you were real subtle with your hatchetwork here, but you’re not fooling me. Obviously you wrote this on behalf of the Molmen conspiracy. What more classic way to advance a conspiracy than by couching it in the mocking of all conspiracy theories? Slip in under the radar. The Devil likes it very much when idiots choose not to believe in him.

    But your Molemen that you love so much are fake-ass punks, like Mormons to real Christians. Your Molemen are the laugh of the rodent-centric religious sphere. Even heathen Lemmiwinks followers are reasonable and respectable compared to your dumb blind moles.

    Whereas of course, in your hearts you know that the great Gopher God is the eternal ruler of time and space. Hear His words coming through me to the truthy part of your guts when I tell you that those who worship false idols or abuse his chosen people as they go about their simple lives in the forest will one day find themselves spending all of eternity being gnashed in His great supernatural gopher incisors.

    Repent!!!

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Jet,

    I imagine the language would be Arabic or another middle eastern language. It may seem so, but it’s not babble. The burkas are regretable, though.

    B-tone

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Also, as I write, the History Channel is running a program recounting most of the 9/11 conspiracy movements.

    B-tone

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Thanks for the heads up, I’m checking it out as we speak and it appears excelent.

  • Zedd

    Baritone,

    Thanks. I just tuned in.

  • Zedd

    My conspiracy theory (fact),

    Jet and I posted at the same time but my post came second. It’s because I’m Black, short, female and off course beautiful. Being gorgeous is such a burden. Damn you Christopher Rose!!!

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Zedd,

    We don’t hate you because you’re beautiful. We’re a very tolerant bunch.

    B-tone

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    We are? :p

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    We certainly should be.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Indeed we are. Anyone exhibiting the slightest signs of intolerance is instantly expelled.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    With my eyes for a moment there Doc I thought you said any signs of intelligence….whew!

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Jet, I agree. We musn’t go overboard.

    And Doc – Spot on. Kick the intolerant bastards out!

    B-tone

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    If I could not tolerate JOM any more does that count?

  • shooosh

    #6 — April 11, 2008 @ 13:34PM — Clavos

    My cat has tried to convince me for a long time of the mole men’s conspiracy.

    Whenever I let her out into the garden, she runs into the corner where she believes they are, scratches frantically, and then relieves herself on their heads. At first, I though she was merely going to the bathroom, but what else would explain the fact that she always goes to the exact same spot?

    Coincidence? I think not…

    You’re the only one here that knows the real conspiracy – the cats! Your cat is not hunting molemen, she’s preparing a secret underground lair from which to rule the world.
    Watch her carefully, she’s up to no good.

  • Clavos

    OMG, Shoosh!

    You’re right! How could I have been so blind??

    That also explains why all the other neighborhood cats have such an inordinate interest in that exact spot!!

    It’s a dead drop!! They’re passing secret messages to each other!!!

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    You know what else is scary, Clav?

    I read this in a book somewhere… It pointed out that if you walk down the average quiet suburban street, you’ll see numerous cats sitting around apparently randomly, apparently doing nothing. But if you look more closely, you realize that every cat is so positioned that they can see every other cat.

    Suddenly, you feel like the mouse…

  • Clavos

    No fools, they…

  • Pablo

    Ok I finally have some time to respond to this article and several posts that have been made in regards to it.

    I see for the first time that I am aware of Dave has finally admitted the obvious, that he too is a conspiracy theorist. He happens to believe in a different conspiracy theory than I do, spoon fed to him by the government and the main stream media.

    I would like to clear the air on conspiracy. I am referring to any act that more than one person plans or engages in that is illegal is a conspiracy, whether or not it was done by the government is immaterial.

    Here are several conspiracies that I have seen in my lifetime, that are no longer theories but proven fact. The Gulf of Tonkin Incident, the
    Downing Street Memos, Pearl Harbor, and of course Colin Powell’s famous speech at the UN, were all examples of conspiracies, i e involving more than one person to carry out an illegal act. I am not going to dispute with the reader the nuances of said conspiracies, I am just stating them.

    One of the posters on here in his inablitly to challenge and debate various conspiracy theories on the merits, instead engages in character assassination, ie they are mentally ill. How smug, how arrogant, and how utterly wrong. Sure there are some paranoid people out there, there are also some very astute researchers, that are committed to finding out truth. The commentor chooses to denigrate, rather than debate, thus showing his true colors.

    I too have my prejudices, I find that anyone who would believe carte blanche, that an airliner crashed into the Pentagon leaving a 17 foot hole to be delusional. The same of a building falling at free fall speed, from an airplane hitting it. I am not writing this article to change any of your minds, only to show you my contempt for the childish assertions that have been made about conspiracy theorists, (of which Dave is one).

    All I could really see on here apart from Dave’s poorly written and researched articled, was reference to the History Channel’s story on 9/11.
    For those readers that agree with the hit piece, why don’t you type in “yellow journalism” into google, and you will find that the very terminology comes from Hearst Corporation being in bed with intelligence agencies and lying on demand for them. Both Popular Mechanics and the History Channel are owne by Hearst, true some of The History Channel’s stock is also held by such notable corporations as General(liberal hehehe) Electric, and the Disney Corp.

    To those readers did ANY of you read the other side? There are literally hundreds of articles that debunk everything that the History Channel made claim to. Or are your minds’ to closed to read the other side?

    You can BELIEVE all you want that the world’s most heavily protected country, airspace, and Pentagon were taken down by terrorists in a cave, even though NONE of those named appeared in ANY of the flight manifests for that fateful day.

    I suggest to you the readers that cling to the official story it is due to none other that you can sleep at night, that for you to think that YOUR government would ever do something of such a evil murderous nature, you quite simply can’t cross that rubicon. I crossed it decades ago.

    To you so called conservatives out there, here is a history lesson. GOVERNMENT by its very nature is EVIL, and prone to corruption and oligarchy. That is why our system was broken into three separate parts, so that NO man could be a tyrant. How far we have come. For the first time in OUR history the executive branch can name ANYONE on earth, without warrant, without judical process as an enemy comatant, and that includes americans, hold them without trial indefinately and execute them upon a military commission. Yup sounds like the land of the free and home of the brave all right!

    Great Britain just announced that ALL police within the metro area of London will be retrofitted with microchips. How far before YOU are? Oh noooooooooooo not in America land of the free. Sure.

    To those that do cling to the official story and the re-writing History Channel I have this to ask you. Have ANY of you read a David Ray Griffin book on this subject in its entirety? Or have ANY of you visited Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth http://www.ae911truth.org? Or how about Pilots for 9/11 truth? http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org

    For the most part Dave’s article is not worth my time as it is obviously written in a condescening, arrogant, and silly manner, as such it is not worth my time, and quite frankly I could care less if he believes his own BS.

    As to previous conspiracy theories in particular the JFK one. How many of you out there that think Oswald was the lone assassin are aware that he was both an FBI informant, and a CIA operative. THAT IS A FACT.

    So you go boys, you keep thinkin that everything is ok, the elections arent rigged, the two party system isnt ONE, the the government is looking out for YOUR best interests, that we are not becoming a Police State, and the Easter Bunny. I will stick to the truth, even if I dont sleep as well at night as some of you, after all ignorance is bliss.

    Enjoy your bliss.

  • Biros

    Saddam hid the WMD up his arse and is living in a yellow cake house in Nigeria. He financed the attack on the WTO but fingered bin Laden and the Taliban so that he could rescue young Afghani women and teach them the ways of the world. His latest book is due out soon: South Park Sucks, with illustrations in crayon by George W. Bush. Should be a best seller.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    @ #57:

    I see that the spirit of SR (God rest his cotton socks) is still alive and well on BC.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Ah, I see that Pablo finally found the time to offer a completely off-track non-response to my article. I can understand why he avoided dealing with any of it. Having nothing in his arsenal he’s better off not trying to fire a shot.

    I would like to clear the air on conspiracy. I am referring to any act that more than one person plans or engages in that is illegal is a conspiracy, whether or not it was done by the government is immaterial.

    So you choose to redefine conspiracy to suit your own tastes? How do you define ‘illegal’? A lot of the most famous historical conspiracies are not illegal. Even many of the nonexistent conspiracies you believe in like the CFR and NAU aren’t illegal.

    Here are several conspiracies that I have seen in my lifetime…the
    Downing Street Memos,

    How was a discussion of the war in Iraq between representatives of two involved governments illegal?

    Pearl Harbor,

    I don’t know which Pearl Harbor conspiracy you believe in, but from what I’ve read there’s little evidence to support any of them except the very simple theory that Roosevelt delayed meeting with the Japanese ambassador until after the attack, and that was just one man’s choice of how to play the hand he was dealt.

    Anything beyond that which you think is a conspiracy is probably a good example of how bogus conspiracy theories can be. I bet you think that the US knew for years that Japan was going to attack Pearl Harbor and did nothing about it, right? Well, of course they did. Everyone knew that’s what Japan would do if they launched a war. The fallacy here is that the ‘conspiracy’ wasn’t secret. The final exam at the Japanese War College had had “how would you attack pearl harbor” as its final question for 20 years.

    and of course Colin Powell’s famous speech at the UN, were all examples of conspiracies, i e involving more than one person to carry out an illegal act.

    Sorry, again I missed the illegal part of what Colin Powell did. He presented some information and his interpretation of it. Why is that illegal?

    I too have my prejudices, I find that anyone who would believe carte blanche, that an airliner crashed into the Pentagon leaving a 17 foot hole to be delusional.

    Indeed. Why should we believe video we’ve seen ourselves, wreckage in the Pentagon with serial numbers traceable to the plane, hundreds of eyewitnesses or the observable fact that the hole at point of entry is almost 100 feet wide. Let’s just believe some crazy made-up shit instead.

    The same of a building falling at free fall speed, from an airplane hitting it.

    Because the entire process of the internal structure of a building falling apart and degenerating doesn’t matter, only the last few seconds when it finally gives in to gravity.

    Both Popular Mechanics and the History Channel are owne by Hearst, true some of The History Channel’s stock is also held by such notable corporations as General(liberal hehehe) Electric, and the Disney Corp.

    William Randolph Hearst has been dead for 50 years. It’s just another media conglomerate. I own stock in both GE and Disney. Am I part of the conspiracy?

    You can BELIEVE all you want that the world’s most heavily protected country, airspace, and Pentagon were taken down by terrorists in a cave, even though NONE of those named appeared in ANY of the flight manifests for that fateful day.

    Because suicide terrorists always book flights under their real names, right? Plus this assertion is just untrue. The lists which were circulated soon after the attacks were not in fact flight manifests, but lists of victims which did not include the names of the terrorists because they were perpetrators not victims.

    The actual manifest for AA Flight 11 lists Seat 8B as occupied by Mohammed Atta and seat 8G as occupied by Abdul Alomari. In seat 2A you have Wail Alshehri, next to his brother Walid Alshehri in 2B. In 10B you have Satam Al Sugani. That’s all 5 terrorists on that flight identified by seat number on that manifest. You can see a photo of the seating chart for the flight reconstructed from the manifest at Boston Globe.

    GOVERNMENT by its very nature is EVIL, and prone to corruption and oligarchy.

    Government is an expression of the will of the people. If government is evil then you have to believe that the people who create and support it are evil as well. What a sad way to look at the world.

    Great Britain just announced that ALL police within the metro area of London will be retrofitted with microchips. How far before YOU are? Oh noooooooooooo not in America land of the free. Sure.

    I hate to break it to you, but there’s a conspiracy to keep London in a separate country that is not the US and known by the conspirators as Great Britain.

    And BTW, if you research this story at its actual source, you find out that it’s nothing like the implant chips the conspiracists are always ranting about. It’s just a tracking device which will be part of their uniform equipment and not some sort of implant.

    Dave

  • Pablo

    Dave said:
    “Because suicide terrorists always book flights under their real names, right? Plus this assertion is just untrue. The lists which were circulated soon after the attacks were not in fact flight manifests, but lists of victims which did not include the names of the terrorists because they were perpetrators not victims.”

    I was on the American Airlines website within a week of the attack, I saw the flight manifest Dave, and it said “flight manifest”. Nice try Bucko.

    You also said:
    “Government is an expression of the will of the people. If government is evil then you have to believe that the people who create and support it are evil as well. What a sad way to look at the world.”

    What an utterly absurd statement on its face. Most governement througout history have been nothing of the sort, most if not all have been government of the strong man or despot, the will of the people had nothing to do with it. Government Dave, is the power to coerce, that is for all practical purposes point a gun at your head and say this is what you MUST do or you will be imprisoned or killed if you do not obey. I call that evil, you call it something else.

    You also said Davey boy:
    “William Randolph Hearst has been dead for 50 years. It’s just another media conglomerate. I own stock in both GE and Disney. Am I part of the conspiracy?”

    What if you had stock in IG Farben circa 1942? Somehow according to you, if a company is a media conglomerate, they could not conspire, how ridiculous. I will say this about you Davey, I do believe you are a disinformation specialist, whether or not you receive remuneration for your services I have no idea. You try to come across as a libertarian, imho your nothing more than another republican facsist always pointing your finger the other way so people are deceived by you.

    Colin Powell’s statements to the UN were a conspiracy to engage in war, by lying and deceiving, and I have nothing but contempt for the man.

    You also said Davey:
    “the observable fact that the hole at point of entry is almost 100 feet wide. Let’s just believe some crazy made-up shit instead.”

    Nice try bucko, the hole was 17 feet in diameter and collapsed shortly thereafter. Some crazy made up shit indeed Davey. Keep on lying I love it.

    And lastly you said:
    “Ah, I see that Pablo finally found the time to offer a completely off-track non-response to my article. I can understand why he avoided dealing with any of it. Having nothing in his arsenal he’s better off not trying to fire a shot.”

    I had a personal tragedy in my family which prevented me from taking the time out to discuss this. You are arrogant, deceiving, and rude most of the time, so this does not come as a great surprise to me.

    Don’t forget to put the tooth under your pillow Davey boy your gonna need it. You can fool all your cronies on this site, which I guess to be about maybe ten, that actually write on here with any regular basis, but you don’t fool me Davey.

    As you consistently ridicule me and have since I started writing on this site, I only return the favor buddy. You are so full of yourself, and all even your buddies can see that. I particularly like how you characterize voting machine fraud problems, with “well we have no proof therefore it doesnt exist. Thats real good logic there bucko, and um how exactly would we catch them??

    It is people such as yourself Dave that make me ashamed of being an American; your arrogance, holier than tho, my country right or wrong, is indictive of what I am talking about. I have only contempt for you sir.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Going back a bit. The first sign of intolerance by any posters or commenters here will not be – uh
    – tolerated.

    B-tone

  • Clavos

    You can BELIEVE all you want that the world’s most heavily protected country, airspace, and Pentagon were taken down by terrorists in a cave…

    You think that the US is the “world’s most heavily protected country?”

    Then, explain how more than a hundred Haitians in a leaky old wooden fishing vessel incapable of more than 10 knots managed to arrive offshore Miami, proceed up the Biscayne channel into Biscayne Bay, and then sail up the bay for more than two miles, finally beaching the boat on the Rickenbacker causeway, one of the most heavily traveled roads in the city, and be filmed by commercial news helicopters, yet NONE OF THE AUTHORITIES, including the Air Defense Command, Coast Guard, Florida Marine Patrol, Miami-Dade Police, City of Miami Police, Coral Gables Police, etc., etc. EVEN SAW THEM?

    What’s that, a conspiracy to let Haitians in because we need more drug dealers?

    Heavily protected, my ass. People go to the Bahamas (a foreign country) in their boats all the time and never check back with authorities when they return.

    Drug dealers routinely land aircraft, unload them, and disappear long before anyone knows they’re here. They just abandon the aircraft in the boonies and split with the merchandise; lately, the drug dealers are even bringing the merchandise in by submarine.

    Regarding “Flight Manifests:”

    I worked for thirty years in the airline industry. During my training and early years I routinely prepared not only Flight Manifests, but also Passenger Manifests and Cargo Manifests; I know the regs. Whatever you saw on the website, if it wasn’t titled “Passenger Manifest,” it wasn’t the correct document.

    Before 9/11 occurred, Passenger manifests (Not “Flight manifests” – they have nothing to do with pax) were NOT required for domestic flights; it wasn’t until AFTER 9/11 that they began to be required.

    Any lists of passenger provided by the airlines after the attack were only lists of victims, as they would have been in ordinary air accidents. The airlines at that time were NOT REQUIRED to release ANY names, and did so ONLY to the FAA and ONLY the names of victims. The hijackers were NOT victims.

  • Zedd

    Conspirarcy (fact) #2.

    Al qaeda is sending millions of Wahhabi’s on to Turbo Tax to cause a massive slow down, to stress ME out and to cause wide spread hysteria and mental break downs across this land!!!.

  • Clavos

    File an extension…

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I’ve heard that crap about “terrorists in a cave” a numer of times. It’s an idiotic stance. Given their access to computers, cell phones, other technology and probably donkeys, coupled with a group of absolutely loyal, well trained, disciplined, true believers, Al Qaida’s accomplishments are not at all beyond the possible. Remarkable? Yes. The conspiracy theorists concerning 9/11 are no less nutjobs than those that still cling to similar theories regarding JFK, UFOs among many others.

    Underestimating their abilities could be our biggest mistake.

    B-tone

  • STM

    Here’s what happened on 9/11, and why it’s perfectly feasible that a bunch of rag tag lunatics DID do exactly what they did.

    Simply, no one even considered that a bunch of idiots would con their way into control of aircraft the way they did and crash them into buildings.

    They used the freedoms on offer to us in the West to do their murderous work, which is why freedom and personal liberties at any cost is no longer part of the political agenda in our countries, and never will be again.

    Prior to 9/11, airport security in the US was almost non-existent apart from cursory and random checks, as were checks on people coming of going to the US (the same as they were here).

    You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to understand that when you see the nature of the security in operation at airports across the world at the moment – like the Gurkhas armed with submachine guns patrolling every inch of Singapore airport and in plain view of all and sundry, and the same kind of checks being made on outgoing and incoming passengers across the globe.

    I reckon that fact alone would tend to stand up the notion that this truly did happen without any prior knowledge of the US government, or any other government for that matter, and that these are the kinds of steps that are required to stop it happening again.

    The reason it DID happen was that no one was doing this stuff on this scale before 9/11 – except the Israelis, who had been warning of the risks for years.

    As for people who see conspiracy theories in everything, I say: when it goes beyond healthy questioning of what governments do and say and becomes an obsession, it’s a sad way to live a life.

    Even sadder that we have to have such nonsense constantly inflicted upon us on these threads, especially when it’s obviously obsessive and the condescension, patronisation and angry vehemence of the delivery (tantamount to hijacking rather than sensible discussion) goes way beyond what might be regarded by 90 per cent of people of this planet as reasonable scepticism.

  • Zedd

    I’m DONE!!!! Thanks Clav.

    Ehhhh, The way I heard it is that Al Qaeda made up all of the schedule forms to drive me MADDDD!! I hear Bin Laden authored “C” himself. The evil a monster!!!

    Alas, I have defeated you!!! Muwahahahaha!!

  • Pablo

    Inlicted and hijacked, now who is the one being hysterical here? If you don’t like what I write, dont read it. Simple, as I rarely read your posts.

    Not a surprising post considering that the above author chooses to say that someone who disagrees with his version of a conspiracy theory has mental illness.

  • STM

    What makes anyone think I was specifically speaking about them?? I might not have been.

    That wasn’t aimed specifically at you. But then, if you think the cap fits, that’s your problem, eh? … bucko

  • Pablo

    cute

  • Clavos

    Simple, as I rarely read your posts.

    And yet, you respond to pretty much everything he writes about topics that interest or involve you.

    Can you say “disingenuous?”

  • Pablo

    Your just plain wrong Clavos, regarding your above post. In fact if you were to look at the posts that he has made in the last month, I am quite sure that I made reference to maybe 3 at most, nice try though. As to the flight manifest on AA’s website, you are correct it said Passenger Manifest.

  • Clavos

    Riiight, Pablito.

    Ol’ Stan really gets your goat…”Smirk.”

  • STM

    Truth is, I don’t read any of bucko’s posts either, nor do I reply to them, so I actually wasn’t referring to bucko at all. I wouldn’t have a clue as to anything he’s written here since well before Christmas.

    I was actually replying to something Clav wrote, and with which I’m in total agreement.

    But you know, if people choose to think I’m only referring to them … mate, what can you do??

  • Pablo

    I smile as I observe that the two of you are so terribly insecure in your POLITICAL philosophies, that you have indeed stooped to such childish pettiness as I can only be amused. I will also remind both of you, that in either case, that being Clavos or STM, in the comments that have been posted by any of us over these last several months, I was never the first to cast the first proverbial stone, of disparagement, the same goes for Dave nor will I be the last.

    But whats the interest of rancor? The discussion of politics more than any other issue, except perhaps religion seems to bring out animosity all too easily.

    Dave however does his best, although usually deragatory in nature, he at least takes the time and words to actually convey a thought process. The two of you STM and Clavos seem more interested in a very petty cute relationship, and casting your very short cutting remarks.

    Stm does not get my goat Clavos, and I was more than willing to debate him on various issues of the day, particularly when it comes to American jusriprudence, the Common Law, and whence rights come from. He simply crossed a line with me one time on here, I do not remember the post, and I decided to ignore him, and told him quite frankly why.

    Regarding my writing on this site Clavos, you certainly think of it what you do; at least I write and attempt to convey my thoughts in an understandable fashion. What I have witnessed from you on this site, for the most part are one maybe two paragraphs, usually of a humerous nature, the humor often being deragatory. I’m simply trying to keep of with the Jones’s here and respond in kind. Now it (I know I must be paranoid)it almost seems as if the two of you are trying to gang up on me.

    I will only reply in kind, up to, or until I am treated with respect. I do not want nor do I expect or even hope that you agree with my politics, but I am perfectly capable of expoundiing on them, and I will continue to.

    As to 9/11, I never said that I knew WHO or believed WHO committed the act. Unlike others on here that do make that claim I do not. I do however believe firmly that entities (people)within our own government at the highest levels were complicit at the very least in that event. As I am not privy to the “intelligence” apparati, I do now know who it was.

    I believe and continue to believe that the group you call Al-qaeda is an MI6/CIA joint operation, and I could cite numerous references to support that view.

    It was a clever trap that STM set, as I responded by saying I thought his references to “mental illness” and “hijacking” were aimed at me, thus making me a paranoid! Cute, and not very nice to boot.

    Do either of YOU two have anything interesting to say other than trying to put me down? I hope so fellas. If not enjoy the pettiness.

  • Clavos

    What I have witnessed from you on this site, for the most part are one maybe two paragraphs, usually of a humerous [sic] nature, the humor often being deragatory.[sic]

    Just for you, Paulie.

  • STM

    OK, I’m going to break my rule here just the once by replying.

    Pablo, I was not aiming that at you, bucko.

    I don’t read anything you write. When I see your name, I move on.

    I was talking about some others, and replying to a lengthy post of Clav’s. I didn’t realise the subject matter was from one of your posts.

    Like I say, I just don’t read ‘em.

  • Clavos

    Pablo’s just pissed off because he can’t find anyone on this site willing to play in his sandbox…

  • Pablo

    As this particular article written by Dave, is called “Some Thoughts on Conspiracy Theories”, I being the resident conspiracist would like to offer the following comments for disussion/putdown.

    A recent poster regarding conpsiracy theories suggested that it was absurd that all of these conspiracies were tied together. You can take almost any book written about the CFR, that was not written by one of its members, and it all is pretty much the same, regardless of what Davey says.

    It was established by the RIIA and JP Morgan, now called JP Morgan/Chase, (rockfeller). Thats not a theory thats a fact. It’s sole purpose since its inception in 1920 has been a global feudalistic government. Even today the CFR is an adjunct of Chatham House (formerly called the RIIA). That too is a fact.

    The Bilderberg Group and the CFR do have numerous and I do mean NUMEROUS adjoining memberships. From such luminaries such as Kissinger, Hollbrook, Stephanpolous, and many more. The same is true of the FED.

    People such as Kissinger, Bryzinski, and Rockyfeller have made no bones about that fact that they want a one world government, run by them. Thats not a conspiracy thats a fact.

    What’s wrong with a one world government one might ask? For me the answer is that government, any government due to its coercive nature is prone to evil. I do not want to live in a one world country where my rights do not come from nature/the almighty/god/or the great spirit.

    The same people run thing that always have. Some used to call them the Robber Barons, some the Illuminati, the elites, the banksters, the noble ruling class. Whatever you want to call them, they run the show, and they conspire to do things in THEIR interests, not yours or mine.

    Did I make up that the Masons were a secret society that had and has vast numbers of their members at the very seats of government throughout the world? Nope I did not. Did I make up that most schools of thought regard the Masons as having come from the Knights Templar? Not me, I did not make that up. It is in the history books.

    So yes they are all interconnected in my opinion. From the days of Weishaupt, and before, and the centuries of Rothschilds, through Jacob Schiff, and Koen Loeb and Company, to Nelson Aldrich and JP Morgan, this enterprise has flourished and continues to. For they hold the power of $$$ particularly through their agency called the FED to issue something of nothing, and charge interest on it. Yes they surely rule the world. For now.

  • Pablo

    I have already seen your blog Clavos, and I do know that your a very proficient writer, I was referring to your writing on here, and what I have seen of it.

  • Pablo

    STM

    Thanks for the info, and confirming my opinion of yyou.

  • Clavos

    It’s sole purpose since its inception in 1920 has been a global feudalistic government.

    Opinion, not fact. But, cleverly sandwiched between two facts so the unsophisticated will swallow it.

    People such as Kissinger, Bryzinski, and Rockyfeller have made no bones about that fact that they want a one world government, run by them. Thats not a conspiracy thats a fact.

    Citations? Quotes? From real sources, not conspiracy blogs/sites?

    The same people run thing that always have. Some used to call them the Robber Barons, some the Illuminati, the elites, the banksters, the noble ruling class. Whatever you want to call them, they run the show,…

    True, but hardly evidence of a conspiracy; the smartest and most advantaged people in anty society usually wind up running it.

    …and they conspire to do things in THEIR interests, not yours or mine.

    Not necessarily, though sometimes true. Notable exceptions: the crafters of the Constitution you revere. Henry Ford, who to make more money for himself, hit on the revolutionary idea of paying his workers enough so that they could buy his cars, and by doing so, earned the emnity of all the other industrialists, who were too stupid and shortsighted to see what a clever idea it was.

    Did I make up that the Masons were a secret society that had and has vast numbers of their members at the very seats of government throughout the world?

    True, and equally large numbers of plumbers and carpenters and storekeepers, too (but no catholics). Other organizations that have put large numbers of their members in positions of leadership: Rotary, Toastmasters, Boy Scouts.

    No irrefutable evidence in any of that, Pablo, just scaremongering.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Pablo having moved into a realm where his writings are almost poetic in their total departure from reality, I offer a fine and appropriate song which pretty much sums it all up for him.

    Dave

  • STM

    I’ll break the rule a second time.

    If it makes you happy to have your opinion of me confirmed, I’ll just say: anytime, and my pleasure.

    It’s a free world Pablo … I only read things I think might be illuminating.

    Conspiracy theories I can do without. There’s enough fair dinkum bullsh.t going on in the world, without the need to add shovelfuls of bullsh.t bullsh.t.

    Despite the fact that I respect your right to have an opinion contrary to mine, as we say in Oz, I think you’re shovelling sh.t uphill trying to pedal your stuff here in relation to endless conspiracy theories.

    I’d wager London to a brick the only person listening is you (and probably the US govt ;-)

  • Clavos

    Dave #83:

    LOL!!!

    That one got bookmarked!

  • STM

    Clav,

    I believe the masons do allow Catholics to become members, although the Church suggests they don’t.

    Many have though …

    So that’s the end of that one aspect of the conspiracy theory.

    Love the song BTW Dave.

    Like Clav, I’m bookmarking it. Classic.

  • Biros

    What is puzzling about 9/11 is how Saddam Hussein managed to fly both airplanes into the towers, make his way back to Iraq undetected, shove all the WMD up his arse, including two mobile weapons labs and then slip out of the country in broad daylight disguised as a centrifuge.

  • STM

    Yes, Biros, that is rather puzzling isn’t it?

    No doubt he had some help from the US and British governments (everyone knows they are really ONE because the CFR and Chatham House are running them and are in league), and since he had a double, do we actually know whether the bloke who was hanged was actually Saddam or not? It looked like the double to me.

    Curioser and curioser …

    I believe the WMDs will surface sometime in the future. Possibly in about 300 years in an archaelogical dig conducted by the very same aliens whose mates now remain on life support at Roswell.

    It will be interesting too to see what they make of the Made in England or Made in USA tags on them.

    Of course, none of that answers the question of where the real Saddam is hiding now, or whether he is still sharing a cave with OBL. Perhaps the London Sun can do a “Where’s Wally”-style game for kids, which might offer an option a tad more accurate than the current attempts to locate them.

    One hates to think too about the cost of their mobile phone bills. I hope they have signed a contract with Virgin, Vodaphone or Optus that gives them special “ME TIME” after 8pm, otherwise it’ll be astronomical.

  • http://www.cemeteryspot.com/blog CemeterySpot

    I am always amazed at how the Masonic Fraternity is distorted and maligned by those who only know about it from books or other media. The Freemasons are a society with secrets; of that there is no doubt. As far as it being a secret society, no way. With all of the press, tv exposure and pro-con websites there it is laffable to think that it is a secret society. If it’s so secret then why does everyone know about it? Masons are active in their communities and donate large sums for charitable purposes like cancer research. And, Masons run many health clinics and educational programs that are opened to everyone regardless of ability to pay. Please take a look at my blog. It is not a Masonic blog but we have some posts about Masonic related things.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I loved the “Where’s Waldo” books. But you had to read between the people.

    Being a Mason provides grown men an opportunity to wear silly costumes, be bestowed with goofy titles and take part in absured, archaic ceremonies. It is true that their organization does do some good things. But all the trappings are a bit ludicrous.

    B-tone

  • Dan Miller

    There has been a swarm of earthquakes off the coast of Oregon and it has scientists puzzled.

    Is it only a coincidence that the Pope is on his way to the U.S. and that there have been protests over the way that China treats dissidents? I don’t think so. The connection is obvious. Only by telling the Pope and the dissidents to bugger off can these things be stopped.

    Oh, by the way, I loved the song.

    Dan

  • Biros

    While Saddam Hussein was hurriedly ramming Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction up his arse to keep them from falling into the hands of UN weapons inspectors, the Iraqi people were pleading with the Bush administration to send thousands of US troops to occupy the country.

    Brave Iraqis willingly allowed themselves to be splattered by cruise missiles to pave the way for permanent US military bases. They lined up in droves outside prisons hoping to get inside to have their pictures taken in S and M poses by American photographers.

    Iraqi households took to planting flowers so that there would always be a plentiful supply to hand out to their foreign visitors.

    When Mission Accomplished was announced it was a day of great sadness in Iraq. The people thought that the American bomb and missile urban planning scheme was over. Oh how their faces lit up and melted when they realized it had only just begun.

  • Silver Surfer

    “They lined up in droves outside prisons hoping to get inside to have their pictures taken in S and M poses by American photographers”.

    How many Iraqis ever believed they would get their pictures on American TV or in the newspapers and magazines?

    For them, it was a dream come true.

    It was the first real evidence of how democracy at work could change their lives.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Yes, Iraqi nightma – er – dreams (yeah, that’s the ticket!) have certainly come true. Under the sure handed guidance of GW and his zany gang Iraq has become a true haven for the natives, a tourist’s dream for visitors. Their gratitude for all we’ve done for them is beyond measure.

    B-tone

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Dan,

    Thanks for your link to the Oregon earthquake swarm. Very interesting. I had no idea that website existed and now I’m all excited. My normal source for current events in science, the BBC, though excellent as far as it goes, is perforce limited in scope.

    Speaking of conspiracy theories, BTW, don’t be surprised to see young-Earth creationists leaping on this news as proof that the theory of plate tectonics is ‘in trouble’…

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Being a Mason provides grown men an opportunity to wear silly costumes, be bestowed with goofy titles and take part in absured, archaic ceremonies.

    Bit like being a priest, really…

    ;-)

  • http://www.alexjonesfan58.com AJFan

    Ring of fire is very busy today . . . some big quakes happening in the Pacific.

    JFK,MLK,RFK and 9/11 were all directed ultimately by the Pentagon.

    http://www.actofstate.org

  • Dan Miller

    Doc,

    Don’t be catty, now.

    You might enjoy reading Lynn and Jay’s Yes Prime Minister, in one section of which the PM must decide between two candidates for Bishop of the Diocese of Bury St. Edmunds. There, the PM learns that being a bishop is only a matter of status — “Dressing up in cassocks and gaiters.” Sir Humphrey agreed, but noted that gaiters were worn only at significant religious events, like the royal garden party. PM Hacker’s conclusion was that the idea candidate from the church’s point of view “is a cross between a socialite and a socialist.”

    Dan

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    I’ve read it, Dan – and the radio and (later) TV sitcom on which it was based is one of my all-time faves.

    It was one of Margaret Thatcher’s, too: she reckoned it was a pretty dead-on representation of what actually goes on in Westminster and Whitehall.

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    Doc,

    Ya think? The Masons don’t have the corner on that particular market. But, it’s much the same impulse.

    I was a member of an appraiser support organization for a number of years. We didn’t dress up, or approach the dais in measured steps and squared corners, but just sitting through all the parliamentary procedures that such groups observe to conduct meetings was a bit much for my taste.

    B-tone

  • Pablo

    Dave said:
    “It’s sole purpose since its inception in 1920 has been a global feudalistic government.

    Opinion, not fact. But, cleverly sandwiched between two facts so the unsophisticated will swallow it.”

    Sure Davey I am seeking unsophisticated adherents. Yeah sure I am.
    —————
    The same people run thing that always have. Some used to call them the Robber Barons, some the Illuminati, the elites, the banksters, the noble ruling class. Whatever you want to call them, they run the show,…

    “True, but hardly evidence of a conspiracy; the smartest and most advantaged people in anty society usually wind up running it.”

    Nothing about the brutal nature of such people Davey? Only that they are advantaged and intelligent? Sure Bubba.
    —————–
    …and they conspire to do things in THEIR interests, not yours or mine.

    “Not necessarily, though sometimes true. Notable exceptions: the crafters of the Constitution you revere. Henry Ford, who to make more money for himself, hit on the revolutionary idea of paying his workers enough so that they could buy his cars, and by doing so, earned the emnity of all the other industrialists, who were too stupid and shortsighted to see what a clever idea it was.”

    If ANYONE gained anything other than the globalist elites that I have mentioned Davey, it was a byproduct at best.
    —————-
    As far as scaremongering goes Davey, I find the Dept of Homeland Security, the ready.gov site, and numerous other examples of trying to make people afraid and give up their rights the scaremongers Bubba not me.

    Your problem Davey imho is that you are so obsessed with socialism that you fail to understand and detect fascism in your midst. From my research both of these totalitarian ideologies were started by the same elites, one for the left, and one for the right. As you are obviously a right-winger Bubba, I suggest you start by cleaning your own house, and being concerned with the rising tide of fascism in this country, as most of it, (not all) has been perpertrated by your political party, and continues to this day.

    For those of you that like to make cutesy silly remarks regarding either how paranoid, or delusional conspiracists are, it reminds me of how people must have acted when shown that the earth was not flat, and did everything they could to discredit such people as Galileo. You only show that your insecure about your ideas and beliefs, and show your own irrational fears, by making fun instead of engaging in debate. You may find it cute, and condescending, I find it extremely childish and quite frankly I am embarassed for you.

    How many of you doubters out there have ever actually read a book about this subject? Other than the gatekeepers? Are you really so sure that its all just happenstance?

    You will always find the same players in this game. From Armitage, to Eliot Abrahms, Woolsey, Rocky and his pal Dr. Strangelove, Negroponte, James Baker, Holbrook and others. Their counterparts in the media: Krauthammer, Kristol, Blitzer, Hannity, and many others all playing the same tune. Intolerance, bigotry, meanness, self-righteousness, arrogance, and increasingly fascist.

    I am not a democrat or a liberal. I am an american who believes in the sovereignty of the individual, and that my rights do not come from government, they come from nature. I will however say this about the so-called two parties. The democrats appeal to the masses, and the working stiffs, and act as if they care about people, something I do not believe they do. The repulbicans have for most of the past century appealed to the bigots, the enfranchised, and the elites, thus my repugnance of them.

    I frankly could care less that any of you regular posters either read or respond to my writing. I do it because I can, and it is certainly not for your benefit, and I will continue to as long as I feel so inclined. You can belittle, obsfucate, demean, and make fun of what I write all you want fellas, and I will continue to put out what I believe. Your ignorance is unveiled for all that have eyes to see. Enjoy! I am. A big SMIRK for Davey boy.

  • Pablo

    Clavos,

    My remarks were towards you, as I thought that Dave had posted them. I also stand corrected regarding your writing on this site. What I was referring to was your comments, and the one above that I thought Dave had written was due to the fact that I did not take the time to see who wrote it, as it was written in Dave’s style, and I have NEVER seen you write a comment as long as that.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Pablo, my comment to you was presented in song. Perhaps you should go back and review it.

    Dave

  • Baronius

    Pablo – Your posts are long and detailed, but you haven’t actually been presenting an argument for any of your views. Yes, Bilderberg, Kissinger, whatever, but you don’t close the deal. What do any of these groups do? What’s their connection to Kennedy, or the Fed, or 9/11? How did they do it? Unless you lay it out, it’s just random assertions. A LOT of assertions, but just assertions.

    Like the tracking devices on London policemen. Creepy, yes. Well-researched, maybe. Conspiracy, no. What does it have to do with the CFR, or Skull and Bones, or whichever group? And which group? Why would that particular group want to track policemen in London? Maybe your theories would make more sense if you’d present them in a linear fashion. They’d certainly be more interesting.

  • Pablo

    Thank you for the constructive criticism Baronius, I will ponder what you advised, and attempt a more persuasive argument, for anyone that is interested, for those that are not, just ignore me, I am harmless and meann no ill.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Pablo, I’d like to echo Mr. B’s sentiments. I haven’t determined which is true yet, but either you get so enthusiastic with your answer that you stray all over the place, or you’re trying to distract us with an answer so long that we forget what your point is. Perhaps you should try publishing these 20 page disertations in an article?

    I’ve gotten four paragraphs in and actually forgotten what it was you were commenting on.

    I’ve been guilty of it myself on occasion, but not to the degree you speak of.

  • Pablo

    Thanks Jet, I appreciate the constructive criticism which I might add is rare among the pack.

  • Maurice

    Great article and very fun to read; especially the links to the fallacies. I thought you were headed in a different direction when you wrote these words:

    If someone is building a carer on promoting conspiracy theories he is the first person you should look out for.

    That sentence is a perfect lead in to Al Gore who:
    a) was instrumental in creating the internet
    b) discovered the electoral college in 2000
    c) is the spokes person for the climate hoax

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    To be fair, Maurice, Al Gore actually was instrumental in the creation of the internet. I was there. I was his head flunky on the meetings in question and played my role in its creation too (I arranged for the tables and chairs to be set up and supervised the snacks and drinks).

    Dave

  • Baronius

    Dave – That was you? I was the guy in the front row wearing a tie. How many times did you give me a Diet Coke when I asked for a Coke!

  • Maurice

    I smell a conspiracy!

  • http://www.rapturenutballs.blogspot.com Baritone

    I thought I recognized Dave’s stamp on the internet. Now it all makes sense.

    B-tone

  • Pablo

    Dave said:

    “To be fair, Maurice, Al Gore actually was instrumental in the creation of the internet. I was there. I was his head flunky on the meetings in question and played my role in its creation too (I arranged for the tables and chairs to be set up and supervised the snacks and drinks).”

    Now there it is in black and white. Dave worked, and may still work for the globalists. In his own words, not mine, not conjecture, speculation, or wish, there it is.

    Al Gore one of the chief globalists in the country, who also showed about as much backbone as a jellyfish in the way he handled the election in 2000, only to be outdone by Kerry (globalist, CFR, Skull and Bones 4 years later.Gore’s hysterical SCAREMONGERING, regarding the Club of Rome’s creation regarding global warming back in 1972.

    Not only is Gore a globalist but one of his daughters just married the grandson of Jacob Schiff one of the most notorious New World Order creators in history. Anyone that has studied this Order knows how important inter-marriage is to their whole agenda.

    Thanks Dave for coming out of the closet as it were. I like to know where a man stands, and now I know.

    For more info on The Club of Rome’s creation of global warming, try google, you will find validated references. Also googling “global warming” AND “Maurice Strong” will yield some interesting links.

    Thanks again Davey

  • Zedd

    Maurice,

    “c) is the spokes person for the climate hoax”

    You are way better than that. Still into talk radio I presume.

    Also, never got your take on the Bear Stearns bail out. Was that the fault of the labor unions too.

  • Zedd

    Baritone,

    sed: “but just sitting through all the parliamentary procedures that such groups observe to conduct meetings was a bit much for my taste.”

    I don’t attend the PTA meeting for the same reason. Can not take it!!!

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Pablo, I worked for Gore 30 years ago when he was somewhat more idealistic and a lot less ideological.

    If you’ve read any of my many articles on global warming (I recommend this one) you would know how ridiculous your accusations of my involvement in the GW fraud really are.

    And remember, back when I worked for Gore we were all worried about global cooling, not global warming.

    Dave

  • Maurice

    Zedd #114

    Never have been into talk radio. No TV either.

    As far as being better than something, I try to stay humble.

    I prefer science to religion.

    I don’t have a short simple answer to your Bear Stearns comment. But I certainly can’t blame unions. I have to defer to the great Walter E. Williams.

  • Irene Wagner

    To: “Antipodes Stan.” Some MORE thoughts on Conspiracy Theorists, who fall into a few categories.
    Monomaniacs This type of conspiracy theorist isn’t nerdy enough to be a Trekkie but too nerdy to be a Football Hooligan. If you have to be a fanatic about SOMETHING, step right up and pick your poison.

    denial, ANGER, grief, acceptance. Some people have had their lives ruined, or knew people who have had their lives ruined and even ended, by unscrupulous agents of the IRS, FBI, or law enforcement personnel. There are the patriots who go to war “to protect our freedoms” and come back bitterly disillusioned. The conspiracy theorist (Pablo, perhaps?) in this category is stunned beyond reason after betrayal by a government he naively thought was only concerned with the good of the people it served.

    Those who come from families who quit trusting and even reading the newspaper after Duranty got a Pulitzer for covering up Uncle Joe Stalin’s forced famine in Ukraine The people who influenced President Wilson’s youthful dreams of an Anglosphere were contemporaries of some of the twentieth century patriotic patriarchs of these conspiracy-despising families. I remember your saying in a recent comment that things that happened to you in the ‘80’s feel like they happened just yesterday. True conspiracy theories take on legendary qualities as time passes.

    Realists They realize that the Corn Lobby (benefiting from Bush’s misconceived ethanol scheme that has ended up driving up gas and food prices in America and in countries where the shortages have reached crisis levels) is probably, notwithstanding its successful efforts to get caries-causing corn syrup put in just about everything that comes in a jar, NOT in league with the American Dental Association. The American Dental Association, which dragged its feet forever before admitting that mercury in fillings was a bad idea, was probably acting with the arrogance of learned people who refuse to admit they’re wrong, in charge of turning around a large organization which having the same managerial impediments to change that all large organizations have. They are willing to concede that the ADA’s reluctance to pull fluoride from the water supply has more to do with a genuine desire to prevent tooth decay than it does with collusion with the government to fill the citizenry up with rat poison so they’ll be more pliable. Realists know too many people who have benefited from modern psychiatry to draw parallels between the US psychopharmaceutical industry (certainly not blameless in EVERY respect) and the exile of political dissidents to the gulags of the USSR.

    Realists ALSO realize that belief that the government is ALWAYS your friend is foolishly, dangerously, and irresponsibly naïve. The checks and balances in the US Constitution were designed with this very thought in mind. People who pay attention to the erosions of the same deserve more than a dismissive wave of the hand.

    Realists also know that the racket of investing in both sides of a war is an age-old one. Conspiracies aren’t always secret. Ridicule of those who raise concerns is much more effective than the cloak of secrecy. In general, people love money more than they love people they don’t know. People have to KNOW about an investment scheme before they can invest in it. Conspiracies aren’t an economically wise choice anymore. Evil plans by powerful people, however, are always in style.

  • Pablo

    Interesting comment Irene. Amazing how you had to put my name in it perhaps?

    It is so much easier for people such as yourself to try to understand this world that we live in to put people in little boxes, so you can go on with your own homey world view. Unfortunately it is just that, your vain attempt to label others, thus dismissing what they have to say about the world.

    I am a person that has always asked questions, whether of a philisophical, spiritual, or political nature.

    I challenge YOU Irene to get any book that you want about the CFR, that is not written by one if its members, and read it thoroughly then come back and try another vain attempt at understanding conspiracy theories.

    The fact of the matter since the dawn of time humans have engaged in various conspiracies involving their fellow man. Thats not speculation, but fact.

    If you want to believe that your government is telling you the truth about various events such as JFK, RFK, MLK, or 9/11 thats up to you. I dont.

    AS to JFK the last government commission to look at it, came to the conclusion that he was more than likely killed as a result of conspiracy. If you did not know this, you are only showing your ignorance. If you choose not to study the above events, thats your business, but then dont come back to someone such as myself who has, and label them as some kind of dissaffected person.

    You know NOTHING about me, nor my life, or my views of the world, other than what I have been referring to regarding the CFR, the UN, Chatham House, and their quest for a one world totalitarian state. So instead you dismiss me out of hand instead of actually investigating yourself.

    I do not believe in the Al-ciada myth. Nor do I believe that there was only one truck bomb in Oklahoma city, and I can easily get you references from official policemen who claimed on that day that there were other bombs in the building. Did you know that dear? I think not.

    Save your condescension for someone else Irene, your ignorance is only showing.

    I choose to study independently about the world. I find that the mainstream news lies on a daily basis. For whom? For whom Irene? Or maybe you think they tell the truth, LOL

    Sure they do sweetie

  • STM at the arse-hole end of the world

    Irene,

    I am a great believer in the constant questioning of what government does, or proposes to do.

    Luckily, living in Australia, and possibly simply because we are a smaller country, the government generally takes a bit more notice of us – although not always.

    We do, however, seem to have more of a voice because of the size of the population. After all, we ARE the government, not the politicians we elect in OUR name.

    I had to write a story a few weeks ago about a decision made by the state government here that impacts nationally, and I don’t think the bureaucrat I was dealing with was that happy about the approach made.

    But any public body making decisions on behalf of the people at the behest of an elected government must be open to scrutiny and transparency. I think the attitude was a bit, “Well, we know what we’re doing, your’re just writing a story”.

    But if people like me weren’t writing those kinds of stories, who’d know what was going on??

    That we are able to do those things mostly without fear or favour indicates that generally, things are as they should be.

    A nice big tick for democracy, then. But questioning and opposing and being angry about things that governments do is a lot different to seeing a conspiracy theory in just about everything.

    No one should blithely accept everything they are told by governments or bureaucrats, as hot air and spin are no replacment for truth and honesty.

    However, not everything they do is designed to “get” us or to foster their own interests and agendas (unless you’re talking re-election).

    Sometimes, you just have to trust the process.

    In our collective political experience, this stuff’s been working for well over 300 years, since Britain beame a constitutional monarchy with power shifting from the monarch to the people through their elected representatives in parliament. That passed to America, and to us, in rule of law in both countries.

    More than 300 years is a long time for something to work, so there must be something to it.

    But no, don’t believe everything you are told.

    I’m also a great believer in the idea that people get the government they deserve, and that these things go in cycles.

  • Irene Wagner

    I did sound condescending, didn’t I Pablo? Right, I don’t know everything, or even much at all, about you. I do know you are a person who made a blogcritics comment stating that your interest in conspiracy theories took off after someone from the government messed with you. I don’t like being condescended to or put in categories (like “racist” or “another one of those Ron Paul supporting conspiracy nuts”) either, and I understand how you’d be annoyed at being put in an “Angry as a Result of Personal Experience” category, and I’m sorry I did it now.

    As sorry as I am for condescending to you, I must point out that you’d have had FAR more reason to complain if I’d put you in the Monomaniac category, which…I didn’t. :)

    “Antipodes Stan”, I continue to consider that very good advice: don’t believe everything I hear, whether it comes from the government, or from people who pretend to know more about US and world politics, and it’s inner workings, than they actually do.

    It’s not worth getting a head full of steam worked up about things I can’t do anything about anyway. I do what I can about “the neoconservatives”–my interest in THEIR conspiracy is the only one which qualifies me as even the most minimally informed commenter–by supporting and voting for people who have a track record of honesty, and trying to get other people to do the same.

  • Clavos

    Pablo bristles at Irene’s supposed condescension toward him, yet his post #119 not only literally drips with condescension toward her (“…people such as yourself…”, “Did you know that dear? I think not.”, “Sure they do sweetie.”, while, at the same time, it is replete with assumptions he presents as “facts,” to wit:

    …I have been referring to regarding the CFR, the UN, Chatham House, and their quest for a one world totalitarian state.

    Nor do I believe that there was only one truck bomb in Oklahoma city, and I can easily get you references from official policemen who claimed on that day that there were other bombs in the building.

    Pablo, as the courtroom saying goes, “assumes facts not in evidence,” which he claims are factual because he believes them, or because he has presented them as “facts” in a comment here on BC, a logical fallacy known as a circular argument.

    Every one of his comments oozes condescension and sneers at the comments of people who are clearly more intelligent than he and far more more measured and reasonable in their arguments.

    And he wonders why the rest of us dismiss his specious claims.

  • Zedd

    Maurice,

    “As far as being better than something, I try to stay humble.”

    And quite clearly humorless…. (or lost in Iowa or where ever you’ve landed)

    I would have to reiterate my previous statement regarding your Al Gore link. “Me thinks you better than that”. Is that more palatable or perhaps comprehendable?

    That was rubbish. I suppose the world is flat too.

  • http://jetfireone.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    Good grief guys, I gave up on trying to reason with Pablo a week ago, why are you guys still trying?

  • Pablo

    Clavos,

    Surely you are intelligent enough to know that I meant to drip condescension upon Irene. Or are are you really that dim witted?

    You can dismiss anything I say, do you really think I care? The comment to Irene, also is directed at you Clavos. What was the last book you read on the JFK, that wasnt an ass kissing suck up to the offical story? Any? Sure

    How about 9/11 Clavos? Any? Sure buddy

    Oh and Clavos, so you dont get my message wrong buddy, CONDESCENSION INTENDED.

  • Pablo

    Jet,

    Thats funny fella. The last comment that you directed towards me I took as constructive criticism, I guess I dont know how to read. Sigh……..

  • Pablo

    Irene you said:

    “I don’t know everything, or even much at all, about you. I do know you are a person who made a blogcritics comment stating that your interest in conspiracy theories.”

    Here is the actual quote I made:
    “Many years ago, I had a run in with the local constabulatory, I assure you it was a victimless scenerio. I began wondering, pondering, thinking about my rights, versus the states interest.”

    I began to wonder about rights Irene, that is individual rights versus the states interest. This is hardly naive as you mischaracterized it, nor is it accurate.

    Thank you for your apology however, it is the FIRST one I have received on this site. I did receive some constructive criticism from Jet, but as usual he turned it on me. Not surprising however.

  • http://bloggingontheedgeofsuicide.blogspot.com/ Jet in Columbus

    you see?

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