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Sheehan should stick to grieving

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Should President Bush meet with grieving mother Cindy Sheehan? Sheehan lost her son Casey who was serving in Iraq. Since August 6, she has been camping outside the President’s ranch in Crawford, Texas, calling upon Bush to see her. Bush has said he sympathizes with her, but has not seen her yet.

Part of me cannot blame Sheehan for the way she feels – and to want to express these feelings to Bush in person is perfectly natural. As one Sheehan supporter neatly summed up, “She’s a grieving mother with a right to protest, and I think President Bush should talk with her.” Nothing unreasonable about that at all.

But grief can also lead to irrational beliefs and throwing blame all around. At this, Sheehan is excelling. Suddenly, every rag-tag member of The Great Unwashed came out in support of her and you just knew this was going to turn into something beyond a personal quest.

Sheehan has given a fresh face to the anti-war movement, which until recently had lost a lot of momentum. Just how much Sheehan represents American opinion can be hard to tell on the surface. Across the country, American flags fly proudly and “Support Our Troops” stickers can be found on most vehicles. But then, one needs to look no further than the petty display by anti-wars during Bush’s inauguration in January to see evidence of their presence.

This poor fella is under the impression that he’s a patriot

I feel that if Sheehan was serious, she would not want this media attention and would want to keep the issue as localized as possible. Instead, she’s allowed herself to be put on a pedestal and to talk nonsense about how we’re “nuking” innocent Iraqis. Since the anti-war movement believes any old garbage, and the media thrives on giving credence to it, Sheehan has gained instant celebrity status.

Pundits wonder if Sheehan can help inflict damage on Bush and humiliate him. That reminds me a lot of avid fox-hunter Lucy Ferry’s vow to bring down Tony Blair. Nothing came of that, and, if common sense prevails, Sheehan will be a thing of the past within another month or so.

She is not being sincere. She has the right to question Bush personally about just what her son died for. But by bashing the military that her son was part of and using Jane Fonda-style tactics to criticize the war, she has really overstepped the mark and sold her soul to the unscrupulous Left.

About Nightdragon

  • http://iddybud.blogspot.com Jude

    She is not being sincere.

    All I had to read was this line to know you could not possibly be sincere yourself. You don’t know what Mrs. Sheehan holds in her heart. None of us do.

    This is nothing more than claptrap for those who’d like Mrs. Sheehan to go away.

  • Rich

    The name calling never ends. It is positive that she has inflicted dialoge to this issue.

    >> “…every rag tag of The Great Unwashed…”

    >>”But grief can also lead to irrational beliefs and throwing blame all around.”

    Smearing others seems to be the order of your party. You may think you have independent thought but your just another person spewing out slander, smear, and distorted, misinformed fabrications.

    >>”Across the country, American flags fly proudly and “Support Our Troops” stickers can be found on most vehicles.”

    Is this your measure to justify your opinion? It seems weak. Being against Bush’s policy does NOT mean people do no support our troops.

    >>”Instead, she’s allowed herself to be put on a pedestal and to talk nonsense about how we’re “nuking” innocent Iraqis.”

    Do some research on depleted uranium
    and its use in Iraq. It might require independent thinking but hey, challenge yourself.

    “…anti-war movement believes any old garbage and the media thrives on it giving credence to it…”

    Go out and ask questions to any anti-war activist. When was the last time you did this? Oh you dont have to ask questions your fed what to think aren’t you?

    >>”Pundits wonder if Sheehan can help inflict damage on Bush and humiliate him.””

    Bush does a better job to humiliate himself then a grieving mother asking the president “what is our noble cause in Iraq?

    >>”Sheehan will be a thing of the past within another month or so.”

    How many more of our soldiers will be killed in a few more months? Can you predict that too?

    >>”She is not being sincere.”

    Nothing is further from the truth. Who would want to put themnselves at the hands of pundit hacks, slanderors, vile mischaracterizations, and illinformend rightwingers.

    >>”Jane Fonda-style tactics to criticize the war”

    You were probobly not born during this time to know that you can not equate Jane Fonda to Cindy Sheehan. If you were born during this time. You obviously don’t know the facts to merit this unfounded statement.

    Then again what part of your entire opinion are grounded in facts to merit credibility?

    >>”…sold her soul to the unscrupulous Left.”

    “Unscrupulous” very doughtful. Sold her soul to the left would be much, much better then selling out to the right, but lets not get religous.

    ____________________________

    More power to you Cindy!

    –Rich

  • Marcia L. Neil

    The Sheehans are the subjects of an influence network.

  • http://victorplenty.blogspot.com Victor Plenty

    UPN?

  • billy

    and how are you a patriot? what have you done except trash the troops and their families and support people who run over flags and crosses remebering the fallen soldiers. you think that makes you a patriot? in what alternate world would that be?

  • octogent

    The sophomoric, purblind rebuttals to the concepts contained in the article, are a true reflection of the mentality of the idiots now egging on this ill-advised and tortured(by her own uncontained emotions) woman

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    billy: “what have you done except trash the troops and their families and support people who run over flags and crosses remebering the fallen soldiers. you think that makes you a patriot?”

    Um, billy, what the hell have you been smoking? What the F are you talking about?

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Rich: “Being against Bush’s policy does NOT mean people do no support our troops.”

    Yeah, Rich, I believe the liberals’ slogan goes something like: “I support the troops when they disobey orders.”

    I forgot that being a person of independent thought means being a card-carrying member of the extreme Left. Good for you, shame on me!

    Stalin would be proud of you.

  • http://nightdragon.diaryland.com Mark Edward Manning

    Let’s not also forget the fact, folks, that Sheehan has said, “My son fought for America, not Israel.”

    Ah, so – yet another anti-war anti-Semite! How unusual!

    Today’s anti-war twats would feel right at home in Nazi Germany.

  • http://www.roblogpolitics.blogspot.com RJ

    If Sheehan merely wanted another “visit” with Bush, she wouldn’t need a publicist…

  • http://journals.aol.com/vicl04/VictorLana Victor Lana

    I don’t think we can categorize Cindy Sheehan. As a grieving parent, she has a right that many of us do not have. Her son gave the ultimate sacrifice, so she is entitled to just about whatever the hell she wants to say.

    To try to demonize Ms. Sheehan or put her into a demographic is perturbing and rather un-American. She has freedom of speech and has a right to persue it as she sees fit. Leave the poor woman alone!

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    Victor Lina: “so she is entitled to just about whatever the hell she wants to say.”

    “Just about whatever” does not, nor ever will, include another meeting with Bush. She got more than most and at the time was satisfied.

    Only now after the moonbats, shysters, and Moveon PR crackpots have gotten hold of Sheehan’s brainstem has she changed her tune. (at least publicly, we now know she’s been a peace at all costs nutcase for much longer.)

    The anti-war movement went from millions marching the worlds streets in 2003 to not having enough people to form a long line a porta-potty.

    They see a face to plaster all over their movement and will use, abuse and then discard Sheehan in the nearest shitcan when the cameras go on to the the “next big thing.”

    BTW Rich: Your correct “The name calling never ends.”

    Kennedy: How many times has he implied Bush was a nazi?

    Sheehan: Bush is a “murderer,” “he murdered my son.”

    Howard “the Duck”: How many times his that idiot and “greatest gift to the republicans” spewed his inciteful invective in the last few months?

    That knife cuts both ways Rich so cut the crap, or we may believe you’re just a partisan hack.

  • Rich

    Mark,

    By Reverting to name calling and fabrications is a loss in credibility.

    Come back to the dialoge when you have truth to work with.

    Enough said.

    –Rich

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    BTW I should have added there are people that believe Sheehan should meet with Bush.

    IT’s very hard to argue with the points being made.

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    What truth Rich, are you trying to say the references I noted aren’t truthful?

    If so your not worth conversing with because you plainly are blinded by partisanship.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    That’s a great link, Marc. Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

    Dave

  • Shark

    We’re through the looking glass here, folks.

    Manning: “Sheehan has given a fresh face to the anti-war movement, which until recently had lost a lot of momentum.”

    Marc: “The anti-war movement went from millions marching the worlds streets in 2003 to not having enough people to form a long line a porta-potty.”

    Marc and Manning, your denial is laughable.

    “…In a Newsweek poll conducted in early August, 61% said they disapproved of the way Bush is handling the war, and 34% said they approved. Another Newsweek poll conducted a month earlier showed 54% disapproved and 41% approved. A USA Today/CNN Gallup Poll conducted in early August showed 45% approved of Bush’s handling of the presidency, down from 51% in August 2004. The trend is unmistakable.

    The unease is not confined to the ranks of anti-war liberals; Republicans, too, are beginning to worry about the impact of the war on the 2006 elections. One Maryland Republican, Rep. Wayne Gilchrist, who at first supported the war but who has since turned against it, told The New York Times he had encountered “a lot of Republicans grousing about the situation as a whole and how they have to respond to a lot of questions back home.” Even such stalwart Republicans as Nebraska Sen. Chuck Hagel and North Carolina Rep. Walter Jones Jr. have broken ranks with the president on the war.”

    == end of transmission == (from a Wisconsin newspaper editorial calling for a timetable/withdrawal from Iraq)

    Manning and Marc show evidence of a typical Right-Wing SOP:

    1) Attack the messenger
    2) Divert attention from the REAL ISSUE

    Sheehan is asking:

    1) Why did my son die in Iraq? What reasons did America have for this war?

    2) When will the soldiers come home?

    – Which are two very valid questions that a majority of Americans, Liberal and Conservative alike — are asking.

    Can’t wait until Iraqi Vets start asking the same questions; it will be interesting to see how the likes of Marc and Manning spin THEIR ‘anti-american’, unpatriotic opinions!

    …Not to mention their attacks on a few hundred more mothers of dead GIs who start showing up to criticize Bush and Company…

    This should be interesting — and the Manning and Marcish response should be especially disgusting.

    Stay tuned. They have no shame.

  • Shark

    Oh, and did I mention that…

    Vietn… um, I mean “IRAQ”

    IS

    STILL

    A

    FUCKING

    DISASTER…?

    (But let’s not talk about that, let’s talk about Cindy Sheehan… right?)

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    Whose “diverting attention” Shark?

    Are we to believe you actually equate a poll of a small percentage of American people, no matter how accurate, with the “anti-war movement” both I and Manning are referring to?

    Let me get out my cluebat:

    Anti-war movement defined as: Code Pink, International ANSWER, CommonDreams.org, Stop the war Coalition, Not in My Name, etc, etc.

    On and on the list goes full of foil-hat wearing polly-annas and moonbats who all desire to stop a human activity that has never been stopped (or slowed down for that matter) in the history of man.

    All well and good that’s their right, the same as it’s my right to call them what they are. Nutcases, wasting their time, breath and money.

    Shark you say we are attacking the messenger. NEWSFLASH, if the messenger wasn’t such an intellectually dishonest, blithering idiot no one would have a target to shoot at.

    If you desire to latch onto Sheehan as if she’s the anti-war movement’s Rosa Parks or the latest Omarosa have fun doing it.

    Inside a month, with the exception of a guest appearance with Jane Fonda and her anti-war, french fry oil burning bus tour Sheehan will be long gone.

  • http://isfullofcrap.com/ Laurence Simon

    Marc-

    I made the argument that Sheehan should meet with the President.

    Close mouth, open eyes, engage brain.

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    Your exactly correct Laurence, I noted the difference after posting, but those that get “the joke” understand what both of us were refering to.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    >>1) Why did my son die in Iraq? What reasons did America have for this war?

    2) When will the soldiers come home?

    – Which are two very valid questions that a majority of Americans, Liberal and Conservative alike — are asking.<<

    Shark, these are questions which you’d like people to be asking, but which most people understand have either already been answered or cannot be answered in any sensible way.

    If you throw questions at the president which everyone knows he can’t possibly answer it’s very easy to then say ‘look, he’s not answering our questions’. But it’s not exactly a fair criticism.

    These questions are like the classic ‘when did you stop beating your wife’ question. And you’re not a dummy, you ought to see that.

    Dave

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    I have to correct my last comment. I said most people know these questions are nonsensical. That’s not strictly true. The ought to know that, but they’ve been emotionally manipulated so much at this point that they very well may not know it.

    Dave

  • http://www.landofthefreehomeofthebrave.org/wp/ Margaret Romao Toigo

    Regarding the blogpost to which Marc linked in comment #14 (which would have been more effective if the link text had read, “the President,” instead of “Bush”): How many lines did everyone have to read before guessing the obvious punchline? I am merely curious.

    All kidding aside, the Newsweek poll numbers provided by Shark in comment #17 are indicative of how the national sentiment regarding the war in Iraq has radically shifted in the last 2 1/2 years or so.

    Sure, in the beginning (early 2003), the anti-war movement was defined by groups like Code Pink, International ANSWER, CommonDreams.org, Stop the war Coalition, Not in My Name, etc.

    Back then, around 70% were in favor of the war and 30% were against it (rounded estimates do not include the usual 5-6% worth of undecideds, no opinions and “what’s an Iraq?” responses).

    But now that those poll numbers have effectively turned upside-down (except for that same 5-6% of know-nothings and think-nothings), the anti-war movement can no longer be defined in the same manner.

    In fact, it is no longer a movement because anti-war sentiments have become (according to the polls) the national sentiment, thereby relegating the pro-war folks to the status of a movement because movements are for minorities, not majorities.

    But it likely wasn’t the work of groups like Code Pink, International ANSWER, CommonDreams.org, Stop the war Coalition, Not in My Name, etc. that caused this radical shift, but rather the events of the last 2 1/2 years themselves.

    The shift had already occurred by the time Mrs. Sheehan began making headlines a few weeks ago, so she hasn’t really changed any minds as much as she has become a conduit for the expression of the shifting national sentiments.

    The anti-war folks have exploited this opportunity to take advantage of the popularity of the anti-war sentiment, which behooves their fund raising efforts while providing fodder for gloating. But they cannot take the credit for having created these advantageous circumstances in which they now find themselves.

    In the meantime, the pro-war movement is simply not getting it in the same way that the anti-war movement did not get it when they tried to make their point via the practice known as “Bush bashing.”

    Mr. Manning, you will not win very many friends, nor will you influence many people with disparaging remarks about a grieving mother whose question — “What noble cause did my son die for?” — appears to have no real answer.

  • http://journals.aol.com/vicl04/VictorLanasINADARKTIME/ Victor Lana

    Marc,

    These were my exact words:

    Her son gave the ultimate sacrifice, so she is entitled to just about whatever the hell she wants to say.

    I never said that she should meet with Bush or even that she has a “right” to meet with him. In fact, I think that would be counter-productive at this point. She has achieved so much more by NOT meeting with him.

    If he had been smart, he would have met with her privately right away to diffuse things.

    In my opinion, she has a right to say whatever she wants.

  • http://zardozz.com/zz/ Z.Z. Bachman

    I am sure that the folks camped out in front of the Crawford ranch believe that terrorism is really being spawned by George Bush and our US foreign policy stretching back to… perhaps forever. Please… wake up liberals. Many islamic hardcore sites are being VERY clear that this neo-islamic religion is hell bent on exterminating the people of Israel and also any Christian that get’s in their way. Peace in the Middle East will never come about until radical islamic teachings are themselves exterminated and extinguished. Bravo Tony Blair for deporting islamic hate mongers from Great Britian !! U.S. mainstream moonbat media will NEVER report this stuff…. since it doesn’t meet their agenda of bashing the U.S. administration. Read and learn what your enemy is thinking… and take your heads out of the sand.

  • Anthony Grande

    Isn’t it weird that out of all the 1,700 mothers who lost a son or daughter in Iraq that only one would come out and complain about Bush. It is also weird that none of the other 1,699 mothers have joined her. The ones who go out against her don’t get much publicity.

  • Sam Boogliodemus

    Well, it didn’t take a month for her to fade away. It took all of 24 hrs. Once her inconsistenceis were revealed by CNN, she was toast. Did her mother really have a stroke? The timing is very suspicious! She is just an emotional nut who’s family and freinds tolerated her weirdness until the pierced tongue crowd swept her up. Now she’s a liability.

  • Anthony Grande

    Well said Sam

  • billy

    are you kidding me. you right wingers are on the side of criminals that run over memorials to the troops and american flags with their pickup trucks. that is un-american which is what you are showing yourselves to be. i have only one word for people that slander the military and their families like you. – - -TRAITOR

  • Anthony Grande

    billy, Are you calling me a traitor??? When did I slander the military??? I think Sheehan is the one who is slandering the Military. Did you mean her???

  • Shark

    First — what Margaret said.

    Also — Marc, you still have no shame — and hopefull, someday you’ll ask people like Cindy Sheehan for forgiveness.

    =========
    Meanwhile… in their rush to defend their lying, opportunistic President, the bullshit and blasphemy continues:

    Grande sez: “Isn’t it weird that out of all the 1,700 mothers who lost a son or daughter in Iraq that only one would come out and complain about Bush.”

    Bear with me for the next few moments — moments that should probably be SPENT IN SILENCE.

    CURRENTLY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST BUSH, LIES, AND WAR IN IRAQ:

    Cindy and Pat Sheehan: Their son Army Spc. Casey A. Sheehan was KIA in Sadr City Baghdad on April 4 2004

    Jane and Jim Bright: Jane’s son Army Sgt. Evan Ashcraft was KIA in Mosul Iraq on July 24 2003

    Bill Mitchell: Bill’s son Army Sgt. Michael Mitchell was KIA in Sadr City Baghdad on April 4 2004

    Celeste Zappala: Celeste’ son Army Sgt. Sherwood Baker was KIA in Baghdad on April 26 2004

    Lila Lipscomb: Lila’s son Army Sgt. Michael Pederson was KIA on April 2 2003 in Iraq

    Sue Niederer: Sue’s son Lt.Seth J. Dvorin was KIA on 02/03/04

    Raphael and Dante Zappala: younger brothers of Army Sgt. Sherwood Baker

    Christine Jayroe: Christine’s brother Army Sgt. Michael Mitchell was KIA in Sadr City Baghdad on 04/04/04

    Karen Meredith: Karen’s son Army 1st Lt.Kenneth Ballard was KIA 05/30/04 in Najaf, Iraq.

    Michelle and Steve De Ford: their son Army Spc. David Johnson was KIA on 09/25/04.

    Eric and Jennifer Blickenstaff: Eric’s brother Army Spc. Joe Blinkenstaff was KIA on 10/08/03

    Vicky Castro: Vicky’s son Army Spc. Jonathan Castro was KIA on 12/21/04

    Nadia Mc Caffrey: Nadia’s son Sgt Patrick Mc Caffrey was KIA on 06/22/04

    Carly, Andy and Janey Sheehan: their big brother Army Spc. Casey Sheehan was KIA in Sadr City Baghdad on 04/04/04.

    Sabrina Worsham: Sabrina is an honorary member of the Sheehan family and close friend to Army Spc. Casey Sheehan.

    Diane Santoriello: Diane’s son Army 1st Lt. Neil Anthony Santoriello was KIA on 08/13/04

    Dolores Kesterson: Dolores’ son Army CWO Eric Kesterson was KIA on 11/15/03

    Dot Halvorsen Dot’s son Army CW4 Eric Halvorson was KIA on 04/02/05

    Nooshin Razani: Nooshin’s brother Army Spc. Omead Razani was KIA on 08/13/04

    Mary Ann MacCombie: Mary’s son, Army Sgt. Ryan Montgomery Campbell was KIA in Baghdad 04/29/04 2004.

    Annette Pritchard: Annette’s nephew, Army Pfc. William Ramirez was KIA in Baghdad 2/11/04. He was 19 and due home that March.

    Fernando Suarez Del Solar: Fernando’s son, Lance Corporal USMC Jesus Alberto Suarez del Solar Navarro was KIA on 03/27/03

    Susan Livingston: Suzy’s brother Army Spc. Joe Blinkenstaff was KIA on 10/08/03

    Kimberly Legore: Kimberly’s son, Pvt Dustin Kreider was KIA 03/21/04.

    Liz Sweet: Liz’s son, Spc. Thomas J Sweet II was KIA 11/27/03.

    Joyce Lucey: Joyce’s son, Jeffery Lucey committed suicide after returning from active duty in Iraq.

    Dr. Javad Razani Dr. Razani’s son, Army Spc. Omead Razani was KIA on 08/13/04.

    Richard H. Shaner: Richard’s grandson, Sgt. Sean Grilley was KIA 10/16/03 in Karbalaa, Iraq

    Tia Steele: Tia’s stepson, David M. Branning was KIA 11/12/2004 in Fallujah.

    Norma Chandler: Norma’s Grandson, Army Spc. Jonathan Castro was KIA on 12/21/04

    Karin G Payne: Karin’s husband,Msgt. William Paynewas KIA 05/16/03.

    John and Nicholas Payne:Their father, Msgt William Payne was KIA 05/16/03.

    Salena Sanchez: Salena’s fiance, Marine Cpl. Paul C. Holter III was killed in a non-combat related accident on 1/14/05 in Ramadi, Iraq.

    Nick Arnett: Nick’s nephew Lcpl. Wes Canning was killed in Fallujah on 11.10.04

    Norma Aviles, Norma’s son,Lcpl. Andrew J. Aviles USMC KIA April 7, 2003 in Iraq

    Tracy Powers: Tracy’s son, Lcpl.Caleb J powers was KIA on 8/17/04 and her son-in-law, Marine Sgt. Richard M Lord KIA 8/18/04

    Vickey de LaCour: Vickey’s son, LCpl Derek L. Gardner was KIA 9/06/04 in Fallujah

    Joyce Mc Hugh: Joyce’s Son, Scott McHugh was KIA in Ramadi on 05/02/04

    Marilyn Duff: Marilyn’s nephew, Scott McHugh was KIA in Ramadi on 05/02/04

    Luisella Mazzone: Luisella’s cousin, Lcpl. Andrew J. Aviles USMC KIA 04/07/03 in Iraq

    Darlene Howell: Darlene’s Son Spc. James W. Price KIA, Iraq 9/18/04.

    Michelle Carter: Michelle’s Brother CPL Gary W. Walters, Jr was KIA in Baghdad on 04/05/04

    Georgia & Rod Schilz: Parents of Spec Joseph Blickenstaff KIA, 12-08-03, Iraq

    Roxanne Kaylor: Roxanne’s Son, Lt. Jeff Kaylor KIA 04/07/03

    Amy Branham: Amy’s son, Sgt. Jeremy R. Smith was killed in a car accident just before deployment 02/04

    Al Zappala: Al’s Son Sgt. Sherwood Baker was KIA 04/26/04

    Doris Tamayo-Gonzalez: Doris’ nephew, Lc Cpl. Andrew Aviles was KIA on 04/07/03.

    Witkowski Family: their Son, Sgt. Phillip Witkowski was KIA 05/01/04 in Kandghar, Afganistan.

    Debbie Drexler: Debbie’s Son, Pvt. Jeremy Drexler was KIA 05/02/04

    Karen Hilsendager: Mother of Fallen Soldier SPC Eric Scott McKinley, KIA 6-13-04, Bagdad, Iraq.

    John And Lulia Gelineau: their Son son Sgt. Christopher Gelineau died in Mosul, Iraq on April 20, 2004.

    Lori Wessel:Our son, SPC Kevin S. K. Wessel was killed by a car bomb in Baghdad on April 19, 2005

    Jill Turner: mother of Staff Sgt. Craig Cherry KIA if Afghanistan 8/7/04

    More people who are unpatriotic and belong in the same breath as Jane Fonda?

    ==========

    May they find some healing.

    …And may our nation find some kind of healing…

  • http://www.whitehouse.gov MSG John

    Please note that several of the deceased in the above list are listed more than once and that many of the relatives are not mothers or even fathers of the deceased.

    May they all find some healing? Most certainly. Protesting in Crawford ain’t gonna do it though. All that does is hurt our troops.

  • http://www.whitehouse.gov MSG John

    Oops, almost forgot, there are also a couple non-combat related fatalities including one suicide committed stateside.

  • Shark

    NOTE: our esteemed, loving, Christian, highly moral and ethical Mark Edward Manning has Photoshop‘ed the above photo to make a wimpy, peace-loving liberal hippy look more “effiminate” by placing the head on the body of a female with small but protruding breasts.

    — Which I believe says a lot more about Manning than he would like — and once again demonstrates that THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO SHAME.

  • http://www.whitehouse.gov MSG John

    Oh and look, a couple killed in Afghanistan–definitely not part of Iraq, the conflict in question. Oh and hey, there is a car accident stateside…

  • Shark

    MSG JOHN: “Please note that several of the deceased in the above list are listed more than once and that many of the relatives are not mothers or even fathers of the deceased.”

    Thanks, John. I guess that like Sheehan — brothers, sisters, and other close relatives don’t count when it comes time to tally up the “anti-war movement”.

    Feh.

    Please note your attempt to avoid talking about what a disaster IRAQ is.

    Please note your refusal to discuss criteria for American withdrawal.

    Please note your avoidance of discussing what will constitute a “victory” in the “war” in Iraq.

    Please note your denial that Bush took America into a war of choice based on false and/or misleading evidence.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    >>Please note that several of the deceased in the above list are listed more than once and that many of the relatives are not mothers or even fathers of the deceased. <<

    You forgot to mention that he lists Pat Sheehan, who has totally distanced himself from his soon to be ex-wife’s protest. And of course if you count all those objecting parents up they’re still less than 2% of the total.

    Dave

  • http://www.whitehouse.gov MSG John

    “Thanks, John. I guess that like Sheehan — brothers, sisters, and other close relatives don’t count when it comes time to tally up the “anti-war movement”.” – Shark

    Consider that your list was in response to “Isn’t it weird that out of all the 1,700 MOTHERS who lost a son or daughter in IRAQ that only one would come out and complain about Bush.”

    “Please note your attempt to avoid talking about what a disaster IRAQ is.

    Please note your refusal to discuss criteria for American withdrawal.

    Please note your avoidance of discussing what will constitute a “victory” in the “war” in Iraq.

    Please note your denial that Bush took America into a war of choice based on false and/or misleading evidence.”

    Please note that none of those things were the subject of discussion.

  • Anthony Grande

    Comment 32, fine 29 parents out of 1,700 are against Bush. Where are the other 1,679.

    But I think comment 32 should be diregarded and edited out. There is too many mistakes, like Pat Sheehan never spoke out against Bush and the majority of those weren’t even parents. Also there is no telling how many of those names are made up.

  • http://www.shortstrangetrip.org Joe

    That pic wasn’t ‘shopped, that dude needs an mansierre!

  • http://www.whitehouse.gov MSG John

    “That pic wasn’t ‘shopped, that dude needs an mansierre!”

    That dude probably smoked way too much pot and hasn’t done any push-ups since grade school.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    >>But I think comment 32 should be diregarded and edited out. There is too many mistakes, like Pat Sheehan never spoke out against Bush and the majority of those weren’t even parents. Also there is no telling how many of those names are made up.<<

    Anthony, your denseness never ceases to amaze me.

    Dave

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    billy:

    “are you kidding me. you right wingers are on the side of criminals that run over memorials to the troops and American flags with their pickup trucks.”

    And who in this thread previous to this comment said or implied anything remotely related to one nutcase and his pickup truck?

    Shark: That’s a fairly small list compared to over 1800 casualties. Then there is this which MSG John also noted.

    Please note your attempt to avoid talking about what a disaster IRAQ is.

    Please note your refusal to discuss criteria for American withdrawal.

    Please note your avoidance of discussing what will constitute a “victory” in the “war” in Iraq.

    Considering this thread isn’t about the topics you berate someone for not answering what’s your point? Other than throwing stones I mean. There are hundreds of threads here that speak to those topics, go there I feel relatively certain someone will be more than willing to shoot down most if not all your leftist talking points.

  • http://cranialcavity.net/wordpress/index.php Marc

    Shark considering you like polls here is one that actually relates to the subject at hand. Not one about Bush’s current support.

    “Among those with family members who have served in the military, Sheehan is viewed favorably by 31% and unfavorably by 48%.” the study said.”

    And that is opposed to the people that DO SUPPORT Sheehan, Moveon.org as Reported by Dana Milbank of the left leaning Washington Post.

    “We’re also asking that you bring pictures of children,” MoveOn.org requested, and it didn’t matter “whether or not you have a child serving in the military.”

    Just so we are clear as a bell for even for the most thick headed among us, the poll shows very little support for Sheehan. And one of the moonbat, anti American organizations that DOES SUPPORT her don’t give a damn who you are. They are only interested in putting on a show for the cameras and will prop up anything or anyone to show “support” for “poor little Cindy.”

    To use Sharks over used expression:

    Feh!!!!

  • John

    Not bad. Only a 7 point spread. I can hardly wait for the next poll results, as more and more folks hear about how the democracy George said we were fighting for in Iraq is now going to become an Islamic state sucking up to Iran.

  • http://www.landofthefreehomeofthebrave.org/wp/ Margaret Romao Toigo

    Marc, the poll to which you linked does indeed show very little support for Mrs. Sheehan among those with family members who have served in the military.

    However, those numbers are different among the general population in which Mrs. Sheehan is viewed favorably by 35% of Americans and unfavorably by 38%.

    Rasmussen Reports also broke down the poll numbers according to gender, partisan affiliations and whether or not poll participants think the US should withdraw from Iraq:


    Sheehan is viewed favorably by 34% of men and 35% of women. Forty-two percent (42%) of men and 34% of women have an unfavorable view.

    Democrats, by a 56% to 18% margin, have a favorable opinion. Republicans, by a 64% to 16% margin, have an unfavorable view. Those not affiliated with either major party are evenly divided.

    People who think we should withdraw troops from Iraq now have a positive opinion of Sheehan (59% favorable, 12% unfavorable). Those who do not think we should withdraw troops at this time have a negative view (15% favorable , 64% unfavorable).

    But that poll only deals with the public’s attitudes toward Mrs. Sheehan, not the war itself.

    If you want poll numbers about the national sentiment with regard to Iraq, here’s a few highlights (follow the link for many many more):


    CNN/USA Today/Gallup Poll. Aug. 5-7, 2005. Adults nationwide.

    “In view of the developments since we first sent our troops to Iraq, do you think the United States made a mistake in sending troops to Iraq, or not?”

    8/5-7/05 54% said we made a mistake, 44% said we did not and 2% were unsure.

    7/22-24/05 46% said we made a mistake, 53% said we did not and 1% were unsure.

    6/24-26/05 53% said we made a mistake, 46% said we did not and 1% were unsure.

    4/29 – 5/1/05 49% said we made a mistake, 48% said we did not and 3% were unsure.

    Compare these answers to the same poll from 2005 to those from 2003:

    11/3-5/03 39% said we made a mistake, 60% said we did not and 1% were unsure.

    10/6-8/03 40% said we made a mistake, 59% said we did not and 1% were unsure.

    7/7-9/03 27% said we made a mistake, 72% said we did not and 1% were unsure.

    3/24-25/03 23% said we made a mistake, 75% said we did not and 2% were unsure.

    There is a definite trend here and it does not appear to be relevant to Mrs. Sheehan’s vigil/protest or any other anti-war demonstrations/activities.

    The point here is that the national sentiment with regard to the war in Iraq has changed because of the progress of the war itself, not because of anti-war activism/protesting.

    FWIW, I was against the war from the very beginning, viewing it as a waste of resources that could have been better spent elsewhere (capturing Osama bin Laden, finishing up in Afghanistan and securing the many still-insecure places here in the homeland), but I am not in favor of pulling out of Iraq right now.

    I am in complete agreement with the President about “staying the course,” because we must finish what we started and not leave the Iraqi people (most of whom sincerely want to rebuild their country now that it needs rebuilding) in a state of chaos that will likely turn into a civil war that could potentially lead to the rise to power of a tyrant as evil as Saddam Hussein.

  • billy

    face it marc you are in a shrinking minority, as margaret has pointed out. we are all around and we dont like bush, we dont like the war and we dont like your radical theories you are putting forward. if you believe in the war take the ribbon bumper sticker off your car and sign up like paul hackett and stop preaching war when you are a coward.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    >>However, those numbers are different among the general population in which Mrs. Sheehan is viewed favorably by 35% of Americans and unfavorably by 38%.< <

    So even among the general population she's viewed more negatively than positively. That does at least a little to renew my belief in the good sense of the people.

    >>face it marc you are in a shrinking minority<<

    I’m sure the left-wing lynch mobs will be coming for him soon. Thank god we live in a republic and not a mobocracy.

    BTW, great comments, Marc.

    Dave

  • http://www.landofthefreehomeofthebrave.org/wp/ Margaret Romao Toigo

    The irony of the Cindy Sheehan controversy is that her vigil/protest hasn’t made one iota of a difference in the American peoples’ attitude toward the war in Iraq (that seems to have come about because of the progress of the war itself), while people on both sides of the issue keep speaking/behaving as if she has had a significant impact.

    I will not contemplate whether Mrs. Sheehan herself is a cynical opportunist or a mother expressing sincere grief over the loss of her son, but the motives of the anti-war groups that are exploiting her vigil/protest are quite obvious.

    Meanwhile, those people and groups who are demonizing Mrs. Sheehan are not winning many friends or influencing many people because such efforts are mostly perceived as mean-spirited attacks against a grieving mother.

    A better strategy would be to speak out against the groups who are using Mrs. Sheehan to promote their own agendas, which is likely the reasoning behind the poll numbers that show 35%/38% of Americans are favorable/unfavorable toward her.

    Nonetheless, the national sentiment with regard to the war in Iraq is still going to be dependent upon the progress of the war rather than any sort of activism here at home and Mr. Bush will not be calling any troops home until the mission over there has actually been accomplished.

    Of course, if we’re still over there by November of ’08, all bets will be off.