That's odd that some guys want to look like their father 'down there'. Is that really true? Circumsion aside, whenever I saw my dad naked, I felt sorry for him and marveled that that thing produced 4 of us. Do girls want their mom's boobs too?
I would love to have been able to borrow my mother's C-cups for certain cleavage-centered dresses and blouses, that's for sure. There are some styles us smaller women just can't pull off.
So many comments! Who knew that my post on penis decorations would, um, stimulate so many people?
I agree with bhw on the PC argument: I don't understand how a doctor who chooses not to recommend medically unnecessary surgery is being politically correct. This isn't PC, this is the Hippocratic oath to "above all, do no harm."
Also, without disclosing personal shortcomings here, let me just say that I would be excited if my nickname were the "aardvark."
Finally, the chili pepper story certainly brings new meaning to this poster.
I should also add that I have never seen, nor do I care to see, my mother's nekkid boobs. There are some things we should not have to have a visual of, thank you very much.
That's odd that some guys want to look like their father 'down there'. Is that really true?
It seems more like the fathers want their sons to look like them, since they're the ones making the decision based on who looks like whom.
32 -
Eric Olsen
Sep 15, 2004 at 4:42 pm
damn straight, woman
Junichi, I need your mailing address (via email) so I can resolve the Lennon affair. Thanks!
33 -
The Theory
Sep 15, 2004 at 6:44 pm
I think a lot of it comes down to tradition. Sure, there was a point where religions reasons were nice (and still are, i guess) and where health issues certainly came into play. But now I think most of it is tradition. What father wants to say that his son was the first in his line to not be?
What father wants to say that his son was the first in his line to not be?
I guess my husband is that father. But I'm surprised that he's in such a minority.
35 -
Iggy
Jul 31, 2006 at 5:32 pm
Oh please, what's with all this "need to look like daddy" argument? that argument breaks down when applied to any other body part daddy is missing.
Eric, just step back a minute and think what would happen if there was no such thing as circumcision, then some new religion started doing it... They'd all get thrown in jail and the government would take their kids away from them.... oh wait, America already does that to immigrants that circumcise girls!
There's actually some people that are pushing to have that law thrown out because it doesn't also protect boys, just to make congress rewrite the law to ban circumcision for both sexes. I'd prefer to see something more on the lines of Swedish law, where you can only circumcise a consenting adult. If you want your boy to look like you there, you'd have to wait till he's 18 and ask if he wants to chop off the end of his wang.
Reuters
reported in "Circumcision may stop millions of HIV deaths: study" that
Circumcising men routinely across Africa could prevent millions of deaths from AIDS, World Health Organization researchers and colleagues reported on Monday.
They analyzed data from trials that showed men who had been circumcised had a significantly lower risk of infection with the AIDS virus, and calculated that if all men were circumcised over the next 10 years, some two million new infections and around 300,000 deaths could be avoided.
Researchers believe circumcision helps cut infection risk because the foreskin is covered in cells the virus seems able to easily infect. The virus may also survive better in a warm, wet environment like that found beneath a foreskin.
So if men were circumcised, fewer would become infected and thus could not infect their female partners.
37 -
John
Mar 01, 2007 at 4:37 am
I was circumcised. I've never forgiven my parents. Don't make the same mistake. All the stuff about looking like dad, etc. is just excuses so the fathers don't feel bad.
I was also circumcised as an infant, but I've come to forgive my parents by:
1. confronting them about it, expressing my opinion that I would not have consented
2. having a son and not circumcising him against their wishes
The HIV news is blown out of proportion. Condoms are still better and condom distribution would be easier to implement in Africa than circumcision. Have you read the later news? Boys that have undergone traditional circumcision but have not had sex yet are more likely to have HIV in Africa because of using shared knives in circumcision ceremonies. So circumcision has been shown to be a source of HIV infection in Africa. Pushing for more circumcision will become a disaster.
39 -
zingzing
Mar 01, 2007 at 1:28 pm
dude. it makes your dick look bigger and you don't have to clean out scmegma. or however you spell it. plus it didn't hurt you one bit. you don't remember a damn thing. get over yourselves.
"dude. it makes your dick look bigger and you don't have to clean out scmegma. or however you spell it. plus it didn't hurt you one bit. you don't remember a damn thing. get over yourselves."
Jesus, man, you're vulgar. Who the hell was promoting the idea of making you a writer, anyway?
Oh, wait...
41 -
zingzing
Mar 01, 2007 at 2:37 pm
vulgarity does not diminish the points made.
and i already have my column and having a column here does not "make" me a writer. i've been doing so for years and years. and years. and a couple more years.
there are many things wrong in this world. circumcision isn't a big thing. i have no bad memories associated with it. and the girlies like it the way it is, so i have no problem with it. it makes sex better, and it means i don't have to pull back the skin on my dick to take a piss. fucking marvelous, i say.
So circumcision makes you lazy? Is that it? Here, let's cut all your intestines out and remove three quarters of your stomach too. Then you can live on pills and not bother going to the toilet at all! LOL
This is actually an issue that involves forgiving your parents? Confronting them over surgically removing an extraneous piece of skin when you were an infant, couldn't even remember it, let alone have any sense of the deprivation of it?
Jesus Christ almighty. Some people really have no lives if this is the kind of thing that they can make a big deal out of.
44 -
STM
Mar 03, 2007 at 6:40 am
Zing wrote: "it makes sex better."
How the bloody hell would you know that, zing, never having had one to make the comparison.
Yes, this involves forgiving my parents. The doctor they used to cut me cut way too much skin, so erections were painful throughout puberty till I was told how to use stretching methods to grow more. I couldn't remember being cut, but I can remember my skin splitting open from not having enough skin to cover my penis. It's not extraneous skin. It's obviously something I value more than you, and what would you do if your son told you had caused him a painful puberty by signing that consent form and he wished you hadn't had him cut?
I'd tell him that I'm sorry that the doctor was an incompetent fuck-up who made him fall within the 0.6% complication statistic, but, considering that recent studies have shown that circumcision reduces HIV risk, and that time and again for decades studies have demonstrated that it reduces penile cancer risk, penile infection and inflammation, UTIs, and a number of other medical conditions, that I thought I had done the right thing then and still thought so now.
By the way, what would YOU do if your son told you that you had caused him a painful death (as opposed to a painful puberty) because he was dying of penile cancer that he was 300% less likely to get if he'd been circumcised, but you refused to sign the consent form?
48 -
zingzing
Mar 09, 2007 at 5:42 pm
STM: "Zing wrote: "it makes sex better."
How the bloody hell would you know that, zing, never having had one to make the comparison."
meh, i dunno. good point. i've heard that it is better, and is one of the reasons for adult males getting a procedure done...
your syntax is confusing. so, i'll just assume you meant i've never had an uncircumcised penis whilst having a romp, which is true.
there's a lot of things that i assume to be true based on the testimony of others. like cancer hurts, i don't want to stick that fork in that socket, horses kick, etc, etc. i'm not out to test them. it's my unscientific approach to many of the questions of life.
49 -
JPS
Mar 09, 2007 at 7:22 pm
I wrote this several years ago. Out of curiosity, why are people suddenly making comments now?
50 -
STM
Mar 09, 2007 at 7:34 pm
"I wrote this several years ago. Out of curiosity, why are people suddenly making comments now?"
"what would YOU do if your son told you that you had caused him a painful death (as opposed to a painful puberty) because he was dying of penile cancer that he was 300% less likely to get if he'd been circumcised, but you refused to sign the consent form?"
I wouldn't be around. Men's life expectancy is shorter than the time it takes to get penile cancer, time that he could have a good life and get alot of good use out of his foreskin. In his 80 years with an intact penis, he would have long since buried me. That "300% less likely" doesn't tell you that 1 in a million circumcised newborns get penile cancer instead of 3 in a million uncircumcised. You're more likely to kill your son by circumcision complications than save him from penile cancer by cutting him at birth.
And about HIV risk. Are you expecting your son to be having so much unprotected sex with HIV+ girls that you'd cut him now? that whopping %60 less likely to get HIV statistic also is a scare tactic. There were still plenty of circumcised men in the studies that got HIV. Enough for me to just tell me son "use a condom".
"I wrote this several years ago. Out of curiosity, why are people suddenly making comments now?"
It shows up in blog gathering and blog searching sites, getting bumped to the top everytime someone posts a new comment. Has this site's software changed?
That "300% less likely" doesn't tell you that 1 in a million circumcised newborns get penile cancer instead of 3 in a million uncircumcised.
Actually it's 1 in 100,000 just in the U.S., totaling both circumcised and uncircumcised men. But calculating for uncircumcised men alone, 1 in 600 will contract penile cancer.
Look, Iggy, you and I are obviously not going to convince each other. We've had different experiences, and if I'd been through what you did as a teenager, I'd likely feel differently about this issue. Likewise, you'd probably feel differently if you hadn't gone through what you did.
The likelihood is that I will have my son circumcised, if and when he arrives. I will do it because I think it's in his best medical interest for me to do so. That does not make me either a horrible, inhumane monster, nor an ignorant, unthinking slave to tradition--and I refuse to be branded as such.
Since there are over 100,000 men so disgusted with how cut sex feels that they are willing to endure a multi-year restoration, I'd say at the very least since it's HIS body it should be HIS decision.
Cutting in infancy is the worst time since the skin must be torn and peeled from the glans (which is when a lot of damage happens). EVERY infant circ has unintended consequences since nobody knows how big the infant's junk will grow to and therefore how much skin to amputate EVEN IF they were so thoughtful as to have a certain degree of mutilation in mind.
ALL circumcisions remove about 16 square inches of adult mucosal sexual interface and over half the sensual nerve endings. 80% of the world is intact with no special health, hygiene, or social problems. Most of the 500,000 US men who have died of AIDS were circumcised at birth. Circumcsion does not pevent AIDS.
I got 1 in a million from reading that penis cancer hits 1 in 100,000 of men over 80, then estimating only 1 in 10 newborn boys make it to 80.
I know you are probably going to cut your son no matter what I say, I wasn't even able to convince my own brother not to cut my nephew. Just be ready if he confronts you as an adult saying he would prefer to be the other way. All you can do is say sorry, or have this same argument all over again with your own son instead of a stranger on the internet. If my son tells me as an adult he wants to be cut, I'll tell him "whatever, it's your penis, your choice, if you don't like it, it's your fault".
Hey, all you can do as a parent or as a human being is what you think is right. You've presented your case, I've presented mine, and honestly the best you or I can hope for is that someone out there will take both cases very seriously and make up their own mind from there.
58 -
samantha matthes
Feb 27, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Michael-- in case you ever check this again: twice as many men died (and were diagnosed) of breast cancer in the US last year than penile cancer. We'd be better off giving baby boys mastectomies than circumcisions. or how about giving baby girls mastectomies? Then we're talking 40,000 lives saved per year.
…
Article comments
26 - boomcrashbaby
That's odd that some guys want to look like their father 'down there'. Is that really true? Circumsion aside, whenever I saw my dad naked, I felt sorry for him and marveled that that thing produced 4 of us. Do girls want their mom's boobs too?
27 - bhw
Do girls want their mom's boobs too?
I would love to have been able to borrow my mother's C-cups for certain cleavage-centered dresses and blouses, that's for sure. There are some styles us smaller women just can't pull off.
28 - Junichi Semitsu
So many comments! Who knew that my post on penis decorations would, um, stimulate so many people?
I agree with bhw on the PC argument: I don't understand how a doctor who chooses not to recommend medically unnecessary surgery is being politically correct. This isn't PC, this is the Hippocratic oath to "above all, do no harm."
Also, without disclosing personal shortcomings here, let me just say that I would be excited if my nickname were the "aardvark."
Finally, the chili pepper story certainly brings new meaning to this poster.
29 - bhw
I should also add that I have never seen, nor do I care to see, my mother's nekkid boobs. There are some things we should not have to have a visual of, thank you very much.
30 - bhw
and of course, we all want to know if women have a preference...
I have a preference for an erect penis that carries no cooties.
31 - bhw
That's odd that some guys want to look like their father 'down there'. Is that really true?
It seems more like the fathers want their sons to look like them, since they're the ones making the decision based on who looks like whom.
32 - Eric Olsen
damn straight, woman
Junichi, I need your mailing address (via email) so I can resolve the Lennon affair. Thanks!
33 - The Theory
I think a lot of it comes down to tradition. Sure, there was a point where religions reasons were nice (and still are, i guess) and where health issues certainly came into play. But now I think most of it is tradition. What father wants to say that his son was the first in his line to not be?
34 - bhw
What father wants to say that his son was the first in his line to not be?
I guess my husband is that father. But I'm surprised that he's in such a minority.
35 - Iggy
Oh please, what's with all this "need to look like daddy" argument? that argument breaks down when applied to any other body part daddy is missing.
Eric, just step back a minute and think what would happen if there was no such thing as circumcision, then some new religion started doing it... They'd all get thrown in jail and the government would take their kids away from them.... oh wait, America already does that to immigrants that circumcise girls!
There's actually some people that are pushing to have that law thrown out because it doesn't also protect boys, just to make congress rewrite the law to ban circumcision for both sexes. I'd prefer to see something more on the lines of Swedish law, where you can only circumcise a consenting adult. If you want your boy to look like you there, you'd have to wait till he's 18 and ask if he wants to chop off the end of his wang.
36 - Howard Dratch
Reuters
reported in "Circumcision may stop millions of HIV deaths: study" that
37 - John
I was circumcised. I've never forgiven my parents. Don't make the same mistake. All the stuff about looking like dad, etc. is just excuses so the fathers don't feel bad.
38 - Iggy
I was also circumcised as an infant, but I've come to forgive my parents by:
1. confronting them about it, expressing my opinion that I would not have consented
2. having a son and not circumcising him against their wishes
The HIV news is blown out of proportion. Condoms are still better and condom distribution would be easier to implement in Africa than circumcision. Have you read the later news? Boys that have undergone traditional circumcision but have not had sex yet are more likely to have HIV in Africa because of using shared knives in circumcision ceremonies. So circumcision has been shown to be a source of HIV infection in Africa. Pushing for more circumcision will become a disaster.
39 - zingzing
dude. it makes your dick look bigger and you don't have to clean out scmegma. or however you spell it. plus it didn't hurt you one bit. you don't remember a damn thing. get over yourselves.
40 - Pico
so sez zingzing:
"dude. it makes your dick look bigger and you don't have to clean out scmegma. or however you spell it. plus it didn't hurt you one bit. you don't remember a damn thing. get over yourselves."
Jesus, man, you're vulgar. Who the hell was promoting the idea of making you a writer, anyway?
Oh, wait...
41 - zingzing
vulgarity does not diminish the points made.
and i already have my column and having a column here does not "make" me a writer. i've been doing so for years and years. and years. and a couple more years.
there are many things wrong in this world. circumcision isn't a big thing. i have no bad memories associated with it. and the girlies like it the way it is, so i have no problem with it. it makes sex better, and it means i don't have to pull back the skin on my dick to take a piss. fucking marvelous, i say.
42 - Christopher Rose
So circumcision makes you lazy? Is that it? Here, let's cut all your intestines out and remove three quarters of your stomach too. Then you can live on pills and not bother going to the toilet at all! LOL
43 - Michael J. West
This is actually an issue that involves forgiving your parents? Confronting them over surgically removing an extraneous piece of skin when you were an infant, couldn't even remember it, let alone have any sense of the deprivation of it?
Jesus Christ almighty. Some people really have no lives if this is the kind of thing that they can make a big deal out of.
44 - STM
Zing wrote: "it makes sex better."
How the bloody hell would you know that, zing, never having had one to make the comparison.
Fair dinkum ....
45 - Iggy
Yes, this involves forgiving my parents. The doctor they used to cut me cut way too much skin, so erections were painful throughout puberty till I was told how to use stretching methods to grow more. I couldn't remember being cut, but I can remember my skin splitting open from not having enough skin to cover my penis. It's not extraneous skin. It's obviously something I value more than you, and what would you do if your son told you had caused him a painful puberty by signing that consent form and he wished you hadn't had him cut?
46 - Michael J. West
I'd tell him that I'm sorry that the doctor was an incompetent fuck-up who made him fall within the 0.6% complication statistic, but, considering that recent studies have shown that circumcision reduces HIV risk, and that time and again for decades studies have demonstrated that it reduces penile cancer risk, penile infection and inflammation, UTIs, and a number of other medical conditions, that I thought I had done the right thing then and still thought so now.
47 - Michael J. West
By the way, what would YOU do if your son told you that you had caused him a painful death (as opposed to a painful puberty) because he was dying of penile cancer that he was 300% less likely to get if he'd been circumcised, but you refused to sign the consent form?
48 - zingzing
STM: "Zing wrote: "it makes sex better."
How the bloody hell would you know that, zing, never having had one to make the comparison."
meh, i dunno. good point. i've heard that it is better, and is one of the reasons for adult males getting a procedure done...
your syntax is confusing. so, i'll just assume you meant i've never had an uncircumcised penis whilst having a romp, which is true.
there's a lot of things that i assume to be true based on the testimony of others. like cancer hurts, i don't want to stick that fork in that socket, horses kick, etc, etc. i'm not out to test them. it's my unscientific approach to many of the questions of life.
49 - JPS
I wrote this several years ago. Out of curiosity, why are people suddenly making comments now?
50 - STM
"I wrote this several years ago. Out of curiosity, why are people suddenly making comments now?"
Because men are obsessed with their knobs ...
51 - Christopher Rose
JPS: Cos circumcised people are insensitive? ;-)
52 - Michael J. West
Beats me. It started showing up in the "Recent comments" section of the main page, and that was the first time I knew it even existed.
53 - Iggy
"what would YOU do if your son told you that you had caused him a painful death (as opposed to a painful puberty) because he was dying of penile cancer that he was 300% less likely to get if he'd been circumcised, but you refused to sign the consent form?"
I wouldn't be around. Men's life expectancy is shorter than the time it takes to get penile cancer, time that he could have a good life and get alot of good use out of his foreskin. In his 80 years with an intact penis, he would have long since buried me. That "300% less likely" doesn't tell you that 1 in a million circumcised newborns get penile cancer instead of 3 in a million uncircumcised. You're more likely to kill your son by circumcision complications than save him from penile cancer by cutting him at birth.
And about HIV risk. Are you expecting your son to be having so much unprotected sex with HIV+ girls that you'd cut him now? that whopping %60 less likely to get HIV statistic also is a scare tactic. There were still plenty of circumcised men in the studies that got HIV. Enough for me to just tell me son "use a condom".
"I wrote this several years ago. Out of curiosity, why are people suddenly making comments now?"
It shows up in blog gathering and blog searching sites, getting bumped to the top everytime someone posts a new comment. Has this site's software changed?
54 - Michael J. West
That "300% less likely" doesn't tell you that 1 in a million circumcised newborns get penile cancer instead of 3 in a million uncircumcised.
Actually it's 1 in 100,000 just in the U.S., totaling both circumcised and uncircumcised men. But calculating for uncircumcised men alone, 1 in 600 will contract penile cancer.
Look, Iggy, you and I are obviously not going to convince each other. We've had different experiences, and if I'd been through what you did as a teenager, I'd likely feel differently about this issue. Likewise, you'd probably feel differently if you hadn't gone through what you did.
The likelihood is that I will have my son circumcised, if and when he arrives. I will do it because I think it's in his best medical interest for me to do so. That does not make me either a horrible, inhumane monster, nor an ignorant, unthinking slave to tradition--and I refuse to be branded as such.
55 - Ron Low
^^ I refuse to be branded ^^
You have choice. Not so for him, I guess.
Since there are over 100,000 men so disgusted with how cut sex feels that they are willing to endure a multi-year restoration, I'd say at the very least since it's HIS body it should be HIS decision.
Cutting in infancy is the worst time since the skin must be torn and peeled from the glans (which is when a lot of damage happens). EVERY infant circ has unintended consequences since nobody knows how big the infant's junk will grow to and therefore how much skin to amputate EVEN IF they were so thoughtful as to have a certain degree of mutilation in mind.
ALL circumcisions remove about 16 square inches of adult mucosal sexual interface and over half the sensual nerve endings. 80% of the world is intact with no special health, hygiene, or social problems. Most of the 500,000 US men who have died of AIDS were circumcised at birth. Circumcsion does not pevent AIDS.
56 - Iggy
I got 1 in a million from reading that penis cancer hits 1 in 100,000 of men over 80, then estimating only 1 in 10 newborn boys make it to 80.
I know you are probably going to cut your son no matter what I say, I wasn't even able to convince my own brother not to cut my nephew. Just be ready if he confronts you as an adult saying he would prefer to be the other way. All you can do is say sorry, or have this same argument all over again with your own son instead of a stranger on the internet. If my son tells me as an adult he wants to be cut, I'll tell him "whatever, it's your penis, your choice, if you don't like it, it's your fault".
57 - Michael J. West
Hey, all you can do as a parent or as a human being is what you think is right. You've presented your case, I've presented mine, and honestly the best you or I can hope for is that someone out there will take both cases very seriously and make up their own mind from there.
58 - samantha matthes
Michael-- in case you ever check this again: twice as many men died (and were diagnosed) of breast cancer in the US last year than penile cancer. We'd be better off giving baby boys mastectomies than circumcisions. or how about giving baby girls mastectomies? Then we're talking 40,000 lives saved per year.