The second planet is about 12 times that of Earth, seventeen million miles from its star, and has an equally swift orbit measured at only around 32 days. It also appears to have a rocky core.
The outermost planet orbits in about 197 days in what’s referred to as the “habitable zone” where its distance from its sun (60 million miles compared to Earth’s 93 million), available light, and approximate temperature might support life. In fact it’s the smallest planet to date yet found within such a zone. It is about 18 times the mass of the earth and has a rocky core with possible ice on the surface, but is shrouded in a thick and high-pressure atmosphere possibly made up of mostly hydrogen. It’s improbable that life could exist there however, because the massive gravitational field and atmospheric pressure would crush it even down to a mere cell’s level.
David Charbonneau of Harvard University is quoted as saying, "The architecture of this particular planetary system bears some intriguing similarities to that of our own solar system."
The system is also interesting because it’s the first one discovered not to have a gas giant such as Jupiter orbiting it.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - RJ Elliott
Cool article. One question.
You wrote:
"It is about 18 times the mass of the earth and has a rocky core with possible ice on the surface, but is shrouded in a think [sic] and high-pressure atmosphere possibly made up of mostly hydrogen."
An atmosphere made up of mostly hydrogen? Like, H2?
I understand that, with sufficiently high gravity/atmospheric pressure, it is certainly possible for even a relatively small planet (with a large mass) to retain its elemental hydrogen (which would naturally combine in a covalent bond to form H2).
But wouldn't that high level of pressure, along with the large amounts of energy the planet receives from a star only 60 million miles away, lead to much of that hydrogen combining with other (presumably) plentiful surface elements (like oxygen, sulfur, chlorine, nitrogen, etc.)? And if so, wouldn't the planet's atmosphere eventually become comprised of something other than mostly H2?
Or is this a relatively young solar system, where this process has not had enough time to occur yet?
2 - Ruvy from Jerusalem
Interesting - very interesting - 180 solar systems found with 179 having a gas giant orbiting around the star ("Pumbaa, with you everything is gas").
The "small" planet on the poop deck that is in the area from this star that might support life has 18 times our mass. Maybe the scientits can correct me, but doesn't that mean that someone weighing 100 lbs. on Earth wold weigh 1,800 lbs. on this planet? Wheww! And, to go with it all, a cloud of asteroids...
3 - Jet in Columbus
RJ, a good friend of mine e-mailed me the journal Nature along with several others knowing I'm an astronomy nut. I'm as perplexed too, but here's a quote from another from the Discover Channel's site Someone did a beautiful artist's rendering of the system, but apparently it's too big to include with this article...
"Although the planet’s location could theoretically support life, researchers believe it is wrapped in an extensive hydrogen atmosphere and probably not suitable for life as we know it."
I leave you to your own conclusions.
thanks
4 - Jet in Columbus
thanks Ruvy, At that gravity the mantle would be so hard anything capable of life would be crushed. Even if a soft crust was discovered, anything would be drawn directly down through it, so at best you'd have some very strange high-gravity earthworms or fish capable of living in liquid hydrodgen???
That's 90 percent joke and 10 percent conjecture.
I'm glad you liked this article better. What'd you wife think?
5 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks for the publish Mr. Matt Sussman, now you're scaring me... I thought you didn't like my stuff?
Only kidding.
Thanks again
Solus mei sententia
Jet
6 - Jet in Columbus
Actually RJ under the right conditions the hydrogen atmosphere might be ignited to form a double star system, not uncommon.
I guess we better set up an outpost to guard against wayward Klingon and Romulan phaser bursts.
ha ha
7 - Ruvy from Jerusalem
Jet, I enjoyed both articles - my wife commented that "this article was better, thank you."
"at best you'd have some very strange high-gravity earthworms or fish capable of living in liquid hydrodgen???"
Years and years ago, scientists speculated on huge gasworm type creatures flying through Jupiter's atmosphere that would never hit surface but survive the terrible storms that afflict the planet/failed star?.
8 - Jet in Columbus
My God Ruvy! They're spreading across the universe!!!
9 - RJ Elliott
Jet:
Double-star systems are very common, indeed.
Question: Is the idea that Jupiter is a "failed" star merely the domain of science fiction (like the 2001/2010 movies)? Or are there some reputable scientists who strongly believe that Jupiter could have become a companion star to our own Sun, but didn't for some reason?
10 - Jet in Columbus
The ignition of Jupiter at the end of 2010 is one of my favorite plot twists of all time. RJ I highly recommend Clarke's "3001 the final odyssey" if you haven't read it you'll love it. The plot twist from 2001 in it will thrill you.
It's my opinion that Jupiter had the potential, but is too far distant from Sol. I wrote a story in highschool about millions of years in the future how as our sun was dying, we ignited Jupiter to survive, because we thought it was a safe distince from Sol as it expended in it's death throws, but we were wrong.
David Letterman pointed out an interesting fact. did you know Earth is the only planet not named after a God?
For some reason that never dawned on me.
I'm for more interested in our asteroid zone and what it potentioally used to be. For instance it's within our habitable zone, and wouldn't it be interesting if it was a planet that held life in our solar system millions of years before Earth, and when it was destroyed they moved to Mars, found it uninhabitable and so they settled on Earth?
11 - RJ Elliott
"I'm for more interested in our asteroid zone and what it potentioally used to be. For instance it's within our habitable zone, and wouldn't it be interesting if it was a planet that held life in our solar system millions of years before Earth, and when it was destroyed they moved to Mars, found it uninhabitable and so they settled on Earth?"
Very interesting. But what of the fossil record? And where are the buried ruins of this ancient and highly-advanced civilization?
And simply pointing out the supposedly-incredible astronomical technologies of the Incas and ancient Egyptians isn't an answer that will get you very far, outside of an Art Bell interview...
12 - Jet in Columbus
It's just a personal fantasy, I didn't say it was fact. Besides, we're still looking for signs of Noah and Moses etc, Over millions of years of geological upheavals it's possible it all was plowed under. After all what about the huge volcanos on Mars, and the catastrophic event that took Mars' atmosphere would have taken all traces too. Mars at one time had a lot more water than it does in its polar ice at present, which leads me to believe that something happened to destroy that and "un" teraformed it.
13 - RJ Elliott
I believe Mars probably used to have life, even if it was only of the single-celled kind.
And it may still hold life, below the soil, or under the polar ice.
And Olympus Mons is one big mofugga. But could a major eruption long ago have resulted in such severe damage to the Martian atmosphere that life was forced to go underground or else perish?
14 - Jet in Columbus
Think about what existed on the surface of the Pacific coast subduction zone before it was either plowed under or became the innard of some mountain. No signs left there, right?
15 - JR
I'm for more interested in our asteroid zone and what it potentioally used to be.
Probably just more asteroids. It's not clear that the presence of Jupiter would ever allow a full-sized planet to form there. (That's assuming Jupiter was always in its present position...)
The main thing that determines whether a ball of gas can sustain fusion is its mass. Jupiter is not near massive enough. What you see at the end of 2010 is a lot of mass being added (in a way that current science would suggest is not possible, for whatever that's worth).
16 - Jet in Columbus
suppose when the moon was formed by the collision of the planet that hit earth, that Mars was on the other side of the sun safely out of the way. what if we weren't the only one it hit? Suppose it bounced off of us, tore the moon off our mantal, then like a 3 rail shot hit something else careening out of the solar system, possbily attracted to Jupiter's gravity.
I disagree that the asteroid belt was always a collection of asteriods. That much mass would have to attract itself together in some form. What coolesce into only chunks and then stop there? I'm more inclined to think it was all a solid mass that was destroyed somehow.
I also think there's too much mass in the belt for it to be just one object, and aslo too much mass to be shepherded by Jupiter and Mars alone.
If it was comets and other matter, it'd have been sucked in by Jupiter's gravity, or would've just kept right on going on to the sun, where if it was a planet it would've tended to dtay in the orbit after it was destroyed.
I'm to sleepy to think straight. I'll wake up tomorrow, read this and go "What the?
thanks for the great dialogue, I'm off to bed...
17 - Duane
Look it up. The total mass of the belt is about 4% of the Moon's mass. Not much planet-forming potential there.
The old idea that the belt was once a planet has fallen from favor. Orbital mechanics holds the key to understanding what happened. The relative distances of Jupiter and the belt put them into an orbital resonance that pumps enough of the asteroids into unstable orbits, disallowing coalescence, since low relative velocities would be needed. The belt is now thought to be left over junk from the nebula from which the planets formed.
18 - Jet in Columbus
Not if you factor in that the bulk of the destroyed planet either was sucked into Jupiter's gravity well and either hit the planet or cooalesced to form one or more of its moons, it might also explain what happened to Mars' atmosphere after chunks hit it ripping it away, and why pieces of Mars have been discovered here on Earth.
Everyone has a valid theory
don't "puppis" on mine
and I won't "puppis" on your's
19 - JR
Jet in Columbus: I disagree that the asteroid belt was always a collection of asteriods. That much mass would have to attract itself together in some form. (Why) coolesce into only chunks and then stop there?
Indeed, if there were a planet there previously, why hasn't it reformed?
As Duane indicated, the current theory is that the presence of Jupiter keeps the asteroids sufficiently churned up that they smash into each other too often to allow anything very large to accrete. At least until we have reason to revise the history of the solar system, we assume that was always the case.
Everyone has a valid theory
No, some people (not you) have really dumb, thoughtless theories. That's why we need an education system.
20 - Duane
Shades of Velikovsky.
21 - Jet in Columbus
Thank you JR, and please try to keep in mind that it was 2:49AM when I wrote that!
22 - Jet in Columbus
Velikovsky? Who the hell was/is Velikovski? That Hack? that Shrink in training? that wacko who spouts strange and meaningless fiction???
He's the last I'd follow the thoughts of, or plagarize if that's what you're implying!
..."Under the weight of many arguments, I came to the conclusion--about which I no longer have any doubt--that it was the planet Venus, at the time still a comet, that caused the catastrophe of the days of Exodus...
When Venus sprang out of Jupiter as a comet and flew very close to the earth, it became entangled in the embrace of the earth. The internal heat developed by the earth and the scorching gases of the comet were in themselves sufficient to make the vermin of the earth propagate at a very feverish rate. Some of the plagues [mentioned in Exodus] like the plague of the frogs...or of the locusts, must be ascribed to such causes....
The question arises here whether or not the comet Venus infested the earth with vermin which it may have carried in its trailing atmosphere in the form of larvae together with stones and gases. It is significant that all around the world people have associated the planet Venus with flies...
The ability of many small insects and their larvae to endure great cold and heat and to live in an atmosphere devoid of oxygen renders not entirely improbable the hypothesis that Venus (and also Jupiter, from which Venus sprang) may be populated by vermin...."
Oy vay
23 - Jet in Columbus
Now that that's settled, we need to come up with suitable names for the star and its planets.
HD69830 A, B, and C is hardly suitable. It sounds like a poor kid that was named after his zip code because his father was protesting the everyone was being numbered! "Hi, my name is HD69830 Jr."
Puppis comes out smelling poopy, as in poop deck the constelation it's in. "Greetings Earthling I am a Puppi!" ....Nahhhh
It could be the child of the Dog Star, and we could name it Puppy?..... Nah too many bitch jokes...
I'll have to think about this.
24 - Duane
Claire.
25 - Jet in Columbus
Oh give me a break! Is that you favorite scientist, god, astronomer, girlfriend or you drag name?