Decide for yourself if research constitutes proof the Whole Body Vibration training is viable for the general population.
The Power Plate people aren’t the only crew out there trying to bamboozle the public into thinking that Whole Body Vibration (WBV) training offers a viable alternative to real exercise, as the folks at Hypergravity are hyperventilating over their vibrating platform.…
Article comments
126 - Lloyd Shaw
I wrote an essay on the different power/speed ratios of Pivotal movement Vs Lineal movement in man and listed the reasons why.
These contain physical experiments and conclusions anybody can percieve, which is why I wrote it.
Then I get labeled a Pivotal basher?
127 - YB
These machines have only recently come out in our little village town. I am concerned about the experience of the people supervising the machinges.
FitVib excel is what is been used.
My questions to Llyod, after having 3 sessions on these machines, is why after the sessions I twice encountered slight pain or discomfit in one or other of my knees. What can I be doing wrong.
I also found my hands afterwards went a bright pink colour. After the last session I also felt slight dizzyness.
At what frequency should I be training as I have recently had surgery and am totally unfit. I see the supervisor sets it at 45.
Where can I go to get more information on what are the correct postures to do the various exercises.
I have tried to glean information from this blog and another one but must confess I am totally confused now. Am I using a lineal or pivotal machine.
Would appreciate your help please.
From South Africa
128 - Lloyd Shaw
Firstly experience and understanding of this technology is limited which is why I dont really agree with the outright sale of them to the public.
(1) Your knees... Most obvious cause.
Posture. Check out this workout and take specific notice of the instructions re foot placement (never go on your toes).
The other explanation would be a past injury being irritated and causing fluid to gather around the knee. This is part of the healing process and it will drain by itself.
(2) Pink hands = lots of blood. The hyper-stimulation causes this even in the feet.
(3) Dizzyness = Low blood suger , this is the most obvious and regular reason. Eat well before you do program , even up till 5 mins before is ok.
It also could be a little disorientation but that should only last a few sessions at most.
Inner ear infections can cause dizzyness.
(4) 45Hz good place to start.
As for more info...
129 - Lloyd Shaw
Oh yea , FitVibe is Lineal.
130 - Christopher Rose
Lloyd, a couple of administrative points for your attention.
As an avid link poster, please format them correctly. That means like this - Blogcritics - and not like this http://blogcritics.org. If you don't know how, here is a very simple explanation on how to format a link correctly.
Also, the url in the comments window above where you enter your many comments should be complete, including the http part. That way, anybody clicking on the url after your name in a published comment will go to your site, not to an error page as currently happens.
This will benefit both you and your site.
Thanks.
The Comments Editor
131 - Di Heap
There's a lot of information available on these sites
Vibra-Train
and
Vibration Training Net - Sorting Fact from Fiction
132 - Di Heap
Here are the two links that Lloyd suggested:
Workout Exercises
and
Safety First Workout Explained
133 - YB
Llyod Thanks very much for all that info.
There is one exercise they make me do where my heels are pushed down off the machine so I'm not quite on my toes would this put pressure on the knees?
Di. Thanks for all the site info I will go and check it out.
134 - Lloyd Shaw
Sorry it is hard to understand from description. Anr you on you heels , flat footed of just toes.
135 - YB
Lloyd,
Its the same exercise you would do on the edge of a step where you allow your heals to push down so that you are exercising your calves. Whereas here the heels go off the plate and only the toes remain on.
But I think I see now where my problems lies after having a good look at your site showing the actual positions and the explanations you give of how to stand.
I have been doing the lunge exercise which on your workout states not to be done with knee problems. I presume I should discontinue doing this one?
Also I have not been told to make sure I am keeping my feet flat on the plate as well as when to look straight up and when to look down. So this will be something I will take note of at my next workout. I am always looking down so that may account for slight pain in the back of my neck!
I have noticed on all your workouts they wear shoes. Is this necessary or can you do it barefoot, as this is how we have been doing them?
136 - YB
Lloyd
Sorry one more question. What is the difference between the Bullet and Standard exercises.
Thanks for your patience
137 - Lloyd Shaw
I allow no exercises to be done on the toes at all , I believe the risks outweight the benefits. Leave this one for the gym.
Yes shoes are a good idea as they spread the load over your foot and give better grip.
Leave out the lunge if any knee problems. Far to dodgy and hard to judge if being done properly. Again risks may outweight benefits.
If you want to find out if it is the toe pressure is causing irritation to your knees , try doing your squats with your toes not even touching the platform by placing a foam mat under your feet with your toes hanging off the front.
138 - Lloyd Shaw
Scam Alert...
It would seem that the same marketers that plagiarised my work to try and sell cheap Asian machines have now set up their own association in the U.S. and Canada...
The American Vibration Fitness Trainers Association (AVFTA)
To prove they have not learnt their lesson they have again plageriarised mine and Vibrationtraining.nets work to now try and convince people to buy courses and memberships. Charging personal trainers and manufacturors up to $1500 to get information that will be available for free.
"The AVFTA offers... training certification and the HIGHEST ETHICAL STANDARDS. The AVFTA system was developed by a group of leading vibration trainers from the U.S. and Canada.
I assume these are the same folk who had to steal others work to do their job last time.
Where can I sign up ?
And how do I know all this...
VibraSlim ...( the past offending company ) was registered under the name eNom Canada Corp through Atjeu Publishing Llc - Texas - Houston.
The new...
American Vibration Fitness Trainers Association (AVFTA)... has been registered under the name Enom .Inc through Atjeu Publishing Llc - Houston - Texas
Greed and stupidity go so well together.
I hope this again highlights the real dangers though of these scammers and shows everybody why communication within the "real" industry must be maintained even though we may be in competition with each other.
Members of the I.V.T.R.B. will be sent a list of the actual people behind this.
139 - Lloyd Shaw
The Notice for PowerPlate N.Z. Ltds liquidation has appaired in the N.Z. Herald on 25th October 2007.
I the Plantiff Lloyd Shaw will complete this action on the 12th November in the High Court .
This kind of action in and out of court will continue until PowerPlate has either...
(a) Apologised for its past behaviour and negotiates a settlement for those effected by it unethical practices.
(b) Is dismantled globally.
I will do what it takes to give our industry an example of what not to do....
140 - Marcel
I ran into this site when looking for research papers related to whole body vibration.I have about one hundred articles and abstracts some of them published recently based on not just case studies but on double blind studies. I respect criticism both positive and negative, but it looks that most of you simply go to the vendors' websites for articles. That makes it very easy to "kill" the concept of vibration training or therapy. Most of them are copy cats, the research is old and indead they indicate applications that are false or at least to some extent. I really would encourage all of you who are interested in finding out what true research teams are finding.
I have been in rehab and wellness for over 30 years and I have seen many new modalities and procedures been critized and been on the chopping block: microcurrent, isokinetics, myofascial release, cold laser just to name a few. Just like these vibartion training or whatever name it is given will be around. It works if used as a true exercise or rehab tool with the necessary rational approach.
141 - Lloyd Shaw
Marcel...
You will find alot of the past research is invalid , as sometimes no tests where done on the machines ( manufacturors specs used only ) . And others only had Fq and Ampl done , which are useless without the other measurements.
One recent major 3 yr study has been effected by the dishonesty of the manufacturor.
142 - Marcel
Lloyd
I would like to encourage anybody who is interested in information regarding "whole body vibration" to visit the following site
www.pubmed.gov this will open the following link
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez/
Go to "Clinical Queries" and type in any topic in the Search by Clinical Study Category. It will open a list with the most recent published studies and controlled trials.
You are right with your remarks about the Fq and Ampl. There is a much more complex relationship between the two. The type of motor, 1 or 2 motors and the HP are very relevant. How this effects in strength gain, osteoporosis and so on is left to the researchers.
It this point I consider a vibration platform as an ideal vehicle to exercise and rehab my clients. It allows me to get people to exercise that are truly deconditioned and believe me it is not a lazy person's exercise device.
143 - Lloyd Shaw
I have yet to see a single paper with the appropriate information. Very poor science indeed.
Have you checked out vibrationtraining.net
144 - Marcel
Lloyd
Thanks for the assist. Great site. I actually like you guys "challenging" each other. Only WBV can benefit of it.
In one of the posting you mention a graph to calculate the G force. Where do I find it?
145 - Lloyd Shaw
It is a program. If you e-mail me I can send it to you.
But remember it does not account for the rest of the equation that make up the action of a vibration platform. Only allows you to play with the mass/acceration formula of the person. And thats if the machine has no drop off.
146 - Giovanni Ciriani
Marcel, you don't really need a graph to calculate "G" acceleration: G = ((F*6.28)^2 * A/2)/9.8 where F is the frequency in Hz and A is the amplitude in meters. If you enter the amplitude in millimeters (or mm), the value of the expression is approximated with a 1% accuracy by
G = F/10 * F/10 * 0.2 * mm
For example at 30 Hz and 2 mm you obtain
G= 3 * 3 * 0.2 * 2 = 3.6 g
It's only high-school physics!
Regards,
Giovanni Ciriani
147 - Kara
Hello everyone- I have just spent a good dealof time reading many of the posts on this blog about WBV therapy and I was hoping for some input from those of you who have doen a whole lot more research than I have. My husband and I have a beautiful 2.5 year old daughter with a terminal genetic disease. Physical manifestations include low muscle mass, ataxia (balance problems), bone density issues, growth issues. We have been looking at WBV therapy as an option to help her manage these symptoms as there is really no other treatment options available right now. We were contacted by a TurboSonic rep and have considered trying to lease one of their machines, but after reading this blog I wonder if the pivotal or triangular machines are better for her particular needs. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks. Kara
148 - Lloyd Shaw
If you choose this type of therapy for your child ( what does her specialist think ? ) my advice would be to use a Lineal plate. As effective Lineal/static poses are hard enough to show someone so young , Pivotal would make it damn near impossable.
I would have a look at something very light and cheap like a soloflex, if you are to do this my advice is to not listen to the sales reps but educate yourself. Go to vibrationtraining.net and start reading , and dont stop untill you have covered all the topics.
Then make a choice.
149 - Lloyd Shaw
Industry news...
VibraSlim have released the following statement...
" BEWARE of Chinese machines, they will fall apart"
They are the same people that supplied Chinese made units for extreme prices.
They plan to release a new machine called the "EuroPlate " , to feed off the anti-Chinese backlash they have helped create.
150 - Fitness Consultants
This is an interesting debate...folks are literally debating who is the best, who is most honest, and which specific results can be verified according to "white paper" analysis. Hey, we all know that with enough time and money...perhaps both, anyone can suggest they have all of the answers. I have called several manufacturers...spoken at length with some, and I am of the opinion that only time will sort this out. Personally, I love the Jack LaLanne day's...a person could watch, follow, and participate regularly with exercise demonstrated in ways that an average person could appreciate. In today's world you have to have the best "mouse-trap" to get any attention (marketplace). So I'm putting this out there: If you (manufacturer) can express to our readers (in the form of video, flash or layman's text), clients, and website visitors, the validity and efficacy of your whole body vibration machine - then I will send them your way, free of charge. Please feel free to visit Simplefit.net Fitness Consultants.
151 - Lloyd Shaw
Why is the Vibration Training market so hard to understand ?
This is a question I am being asked constantly now with most people getting very confused as to what to buy , why and from whom. I will quickly explain below the concerns I have and how the confusion surrounding this industry is deliberate and why I am so hard on those selling dodgy machines.
(1) If a machine is not built to a good standard not only will it not work for long ( reports of broken units coming in hard and fast lately ) ,but it may not work at all. Combine that with the injury risks from uncontrolled 3D units or machines running at incorrect Fq its just not worth it.
(2) Simply creating a "Vibration" is not Vibration Training , if it was that simple then we would have had this science up and running 100yrs ago , correct ? The only people you will hear say otherwise are the same marketers/manufacturors that would sell you fake Aids drugs .
(3) If a machine is built to the level of a proper Vibration Training device the correct postures needed when in contact with the unit becomes so important that unsupervised use actually becomes irresponsable. ( education of the buyer is very important here )
(4) If the program does not match the unit , even the best machine can become an injury trap.
Why is this not told to you....
To some involved in this industry , taking your money is just a game , with the fact they are selling you a health product to be used on your body not even considered. They risk some capital , you risk your spine , and the expanding obesity crisis comes second to their expanding bank accounts.
This is the game they are playing with you and why it looks so confusing from the outside......
In chess you have 3 stages to a game.
(1) Opening
(2) Middle game
(3) End game
Opening....
In the opening players set up their defences and potential attacks. If a photo of the game around move 10 was shown to most other players they could basically work out whats going on even if they had not witnessed the game up till that point.
Our opening was the "real" industry building good quality units , testing units , doing R&D or opening places to access them safetly.
Middle Game....
This is where you will see pieces scattered all around the board in what appears to be a random order, a photo of a middle game would tell an outside player little as to others stratagies and past movements, this is YOU the consumer at the moment , looking at a middle game and wondering why it looks so disorganaized.
This is where the marketers like to step into the game , making off the confusion and doing their upmost to make out they are a part of the "real" industry , relying on the presumption you will just get tired of hearing conflicting information and flow like water to the nearest/cheapest dealer. Their mantra of " but at least at this price you arnt risking much " sounds logical, except for the risk to you future health that is not being discussed.
The dishonest marketers/manufacturors ( about 160 out of 180 at last count ) have relied on this confusion period to be of 5yrs minimum from the introduction of Vibration Training to your country, so they can make back their investments. They fully understand the risks to you.
My aim is this , to shorten the " Middle Game " buy releasing so much marketing free information to the consumer as to collapse their plan and give them a very expensive lesson at the same time. And yes I am aware how aggressive and condescending this sounds.
The end game is yet to come....
A group of us have made it our relentless endevour to have a clean industry where the end game has no losers but those who should not have been playing with your health in the first place.
If you are still confused , my advice is to wait for us to finish our work. In the mean time education is your only weapon. Keep reading , keep asking.....
152 - Lynn
after trying to find out info about a new(well its new in South Africa) therapyexercise I obviously ran into Lloyd online and his articles, his honesty and not trying to sell his product impressed me and I sent him a mail trying to find out if I could purchase one of his franchises for south Africa (opening myself right up for a hard sell i know) BUT he didn't , infact he put me onto someone he deems as ethical in SA to try starting up independantly but to come back for any help if I need!! from an honestyethical perspective i'd have to say you can't fault the guy.
153 - Lloyd Shaw
Confirmation....
"Europlate" pays ..$208 ( U.S.) from the factory in Asia not Europe.
How much are they trying to charge .....$1699 (U.S.)
Misleading , unethical, ripoffs artists.
154 - sergio
Lloyd
I live in Mexico City and i want to buy a Vibration machine to use in my home, i never do any kind of exercise and i just want to start to do it, one of my big problems is i just not have a lot of time to do it.
What kind of machine you recomend me to start
155 - Lloyd Shaw
Sergio... ( caught up with me at vibrationtraing.net )
Hope the info halped.
Industry news....
The new HyperGravity range is getting good reviews. These machines really are a step up and I believe the commercail units will do very well in the gym market.
Power Plate have just been caught again....
Claiming their machines to be Class 1 medical devices , only one problem.....
Both KEMA and TUV the organizations responsable for such listings say a Vibration platform has to be a class 2A , class 1 is only for low risk medical device like plasters and bandages.
It is obvious Power Plate are bending the truth again to fool the consumer.
Truly earning the title as the most unethical company our industry has witnessed.
156 - BdN
I'm not gonna get involved in the whole WBV thing. But I just wanted to say that the whole "evolutionary theory" part by Lloyd @109 is completely nonsensical.
157 - Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
And why would that be BdN ?
158 - BdN
Well, sorry, I didn't want to insult you. Maybe my "completely nonsensical" was a little bit too strong for what I intended. All I wanted to say is that, even though your conclusions may be right (as I said, I don't want to get involved in the debate), your premises about evolution are not completely true and those about human evolution are false.
If it's true that prey species tend to have eyes a little bit further on the side, so they can see a wider area, both prey and predators have binocular vision ; the so-called "prey" species have a narrower one, but one nonetheless. One must not forget that preys are also often predators. For example, if some rodent is a prey to bigger mammals, it also prey on other species, may it be smaller mammals or insects. They're are also many mammals with eyes "on the side" which are predators. See killer whales amongst others.
As for humans, since we are primates, our stereoscopic vision evolved for the same reasons as the other ones. There are two main hypothesis for the origin of primates. If the second one "fits" with the predator scheme, the most acknowledged one does not. Primates diverged from their ancestors because of their adaptation to arboreal living. There comes their reliance on vision : "in a complex, three-dimensional environment with uncertain footholds, acute vision with depth perception is a necessity" ("Mammalian/primate evolutionary history", chap. 7 in Understanding Physical Anthropology and Archeology"). Forward facing eyes have evolved mostly in cluttered environments, where leafs may play a great role. Finally, most primates, which have forward facing eyes, are not predators. Just think of gorillas : they are mostly herbivorous.
As for the muscle part, if it is true that you are "made" to go forward and not sideways, you could say the same about "prey" species. You mention horses as a "prey" species saying "This is very different than some animals like horses that can not. This is why they will jump over a puddle only an inch deep . They are not nervous about water , they just can not tell how deep the puddle is. They are PRAY animals". But when you talk about muscles, you say "Take the legs for example , the Quad and Hamstring ( our "drive" muscles )being much larger by far than our Adductor muscles. Essentially meaning we can never run sideways as fast or as powerfull (sic) as we can forwards." Well, I am pretty sure we can say the same about horses : even if they are a prey species with eyes on the sides, the will never be able to run sideways as fast as they can forwards. And as far as I know, most quadrupeds, prey or predator, can't.
I think that's enough. But just to be sure : humans did not evolve as predators. Read any book about human evolution. We pray more than other primates but are far from being lions.
Hope that helps.
159 - Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
"I was being simplistic "
If you look at my work it is clearly intended to be read by the average consumer. It was not meant as a full scale anthropology lesson or a peer reviewed paper . My articles are designed to be read in only a few minutes , that task can only be done by giving an outline of the subject. Of course its going to resemble a piece of Swiss cheese.
To not want to "get into" the vibration training aspect means the article is actually pointless to write , or even to read. As it was ONLY written to help explain the force/reaction differences applied to someone using a Pivotal or Lineal unit and having some dodgy salesman tell them they are the same thing .
What you wrote is a good lesson why academics have been useless to my industry , your comments helped no-one except it gave you a chance to quote someone else's work. Good on you , you can read , you get a gold star.
Note: I have designed better machines by using original theory and not following what others tell me is the "only" truth. The 'experts" that were running the industry 5 yrs ago now get me to fix their problems. If I blindly believed the text books that would never have happened.
160 - Richard
Having had my interest aroused in this article by Sal, as a scientist interested in vibration exercise machines, I am disappointed not to see a more scientific analysis by Sal. I also see no evidence of professional scientific or medical qualifications other than his string of personal physical achievements, which while they make him a great achiever, don't exactly prove him to be the best analytical engineer. To make it worse, some of the comments are downright rude, in very bad taste and uneducated. Not all individuals are 'couch potatoes' and many people trying to increase fitness are over 60, suffering from arthritis or other ailments and not as lucky as some of the obviously supermen who have written some of these critical replies. I think I would have had more truth and sense out of a kid's comic book. Sorry, but you have demeaned what could have been a very interesting discussion. My suggestion is to go back to school again and learn how to evaluate equipment properly before you write such rot again.
161 - Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
[Entire comment deleted. Lloyd, your comments are being edited or deleted because you keep insulting people rather than sticking to the subject.
People are allowed to write articles expressing their own opinions and commenters are allowed to challenge those opinions but not belittle our writers or other commenters.
Finally, and not for the first time of asking, please insert the missing seven characters from the beginning of your own site URL into the URL box directly above where you enter your actual comment.
Christopher Rose
Blogcritics Comments Editor]
162 - Anomo
I think maybe it is time for you to just say comments were edited because they were uncomfortably accurate. It is my understanding LS caught the author fiddling with the facts to suit his story, if he does this it should be allowed to stay public in the interest of a balanced point of view for the reader.
163 - Vibes
Vibration therapy is awesome
164 - Oldie
i guess that the vibration machine trend is something that is here to stay and whether we like or dislike the concept, no-one can argue that point.
My great excitement with this technology is for the older citizens who are reluctant to partake of physical activity for a number of reasons. Personal safety being the prime consideration for most. If WBV is as good as a lot of people/studies say, then the health benefits for this group would have to be enormous. These people have the greatest health issues and are often most fragile as they fight to maintain their independance. As we age, we have less exercise tolerance and are not able to maintain the level of activity once enjoyed.
If the claims made are accurate then WBV can lead to Greater balance, = less falls = less trips to hospital, greater independance. If the osteoporosis claims are anywhere near accurate, less fractures = less trips to hospital = less surgery = greater independance. If the claims re blood pressure are accurate, less medications, less cost = greater independance. If the claims re stress incontinence are correct - dont tell TENA, but the oldies will have greater independance.
Hmmmm, has anybody targeted this group.
165 - David Peters
I am more confused than ever about which type of machine to purchase... I am a male, 5'8" , 56 years old and in good health. My goal is to supplement the pullups, pushups, cycling and swimming I already do. I desire to move lymph, build/maintain muscle mass and hopefully improve my overall sense of well being... Any suggestions for me?
166 - Cindy
Yes, here are my suggestions. Keep on doing what you do. Then take some time to relax. If you must do something else, take some yoga, or dance, or tennis or whatever you might like that's interesting. Don't, however, fall for buying a vibration machine. They are fake and are designed by unscrupulous people to get your money into their pockets.
167 - Stevey
Recent studies indicate this is an effective alternative to weight training and can be done until you are very old safely.
Yes there are fake machine around as Cindy suggests, but if you get a good machine it is well worth the money and cheaper than a lifetime membership at a gym.
168 - Abr Sys
I read your article with interest debunking the WBV myth or at least shedding light on it...
In the end it left me thinking about Charles Atlas and his dynamic tension course. I bought it when I was 13 years old with the money I saved from doing my paper round and other stuff. I never got to look like Charles A. I have to say.
I see a direct parallel between WBV and dynamic tension, I think they both give enormous benifits over the long term done consistently - that is anything that's flexed will give the system and increased flow of what ever makes it tick. For the body that's a good thing. Activity I would think can provoke/promote both growth or reduction depending on the tissue structure.
WBV has got to be a good thing in the end hasn't it? Even if it doesn't totally deliver on the hyped - much the same a the zillions of diet plans No?
Best regards Abr.