All in all, this is a pretty lousy showing. What are the people at Vibra-Train thinking?
Laziness, and a lack of attention to detail is evident throughout the Vibra-Train website. From the factually-challenged, sexist and poorly written item dealing with cellulite loss and vibration training – all this money for a machine and they can’t afford a proof reader? - to the constant misrepresentation of the state of research dealing with WBV, this site is a mess.
With the kind of overt sloppiness that is evidenced on almost every page of the Vibra-Train website, why would anyone buy what these folks are selling?
Vibra-Train can’t provide us with research precisely because such research doesn’t exist; they just want people to take them at their word. The University of Melbourne and the Mayo Clinic provide all of the info that anyone should need when they tell us that there’s no data to support the use of WBV training.
You don’t have to listen to me but take the word of researchers from Melbourne and a doctor from the Mayo Clinic. And you can thank Vibra-Train for providing us with all of the reasons NOT to bother with WBV platforms. The Vibra-Train folks can rant and rave until they turn blue in their vibrating faces, but they have only themselves to blame.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - mike Hair
It's amazing how people leave out half the story. If you are able to read Sal the site goes on to state...
"The reason we have removed the existing research is this; our units are built to a standard we believe has not been seen in the industry to date, instead most research has been done on machines we have not been given the full engineering tests for so we believe it unethical to repeat the test results until such time as these standards have been meet."
Telling half a story and leaving it up to people to draw a conclusion from what you tell them, in my mind is no different than telling lies.
2 - Lloyd Shaw
You are showing your frustration Sal...
What my website says is the research is NOT good enough quality for us so we CHOOSE not to refer to it or celebrity endorsements.
You also have no respect left after your admission of not testing units before writing critical material and even getting basic science theories wrong like "Vibration is the same as electric shocks " in one of your articles.
I would say these things point to Sloppy Uneducated behaviour from yourself.
Maybe you should spend a little time cleaning up your own act ?
3 - Lloyd Shaw
I must also apologise to Sal for forcing him to put effort into something like searching Google.
I completely underestimated the stress this would cause Sal and instead considered it would give the consumer a choice as to what they read , good and bad , rather than forcing them to take in what censored versions I gave them , whilst reminding them this is a young industry yet to be proven.
Never mind , I will try harder next time.
4 - Wayne Campbell
Sal, THANKYOU.
The more you articles you write the more opportunities you give peaople to discuss and discover WBV. Keep up the good work!!
I hope you keep reading the feedback, you may learn a thing or two.
I hope you have many more articles planned.
5 - sal m
here's a great excerpt from lloyd shaw's treatise on cellulite and vibration training.
"Cosmetic Advantages
Can cellulite be sent packing? The main problem with most cellulite treatments is that they focus on only one of the reasons for having it. Deep tissue massage only helps shift the fat cells not empty them, exercise will empty them but not shift them. Increasing your lymphatic drainage helps with fluid retention but not burning fat. With a combination of these things IT CAN GO!
Here at VIBRA-TRAIN we offer a full package to finally get rid of your cellulite. Ok so cellulite isn't a health risk unlike factors previously mentioned, but it never hurt anyone to have a nice toosh RIGHT?
Other Health Benefits
Pain reduction in joints
Better sleep
Increased circulation
Lower cholesterol"
unfounded statements like this are everywhere on the Vibra-Train site. and yet according to one of Vibra-Train's minions it's okay to say this because on their research page they say, "most research has been done on machines we have not been given the full engineering tests for so we believe it unethical to repeat the test results until such time as these standards have been meet."
then Vibra-Train goes and says that WBV works when there is no data to back up their claims! great stuff guys...keep us laughing!
6 - Lloyd Shaw
A few things for you to digest Sal...
(1) We do not charge customers for the first session.
(2) We do not sell machines.
(3) We do not do any membership plan.
(4) Almost all our studios have been sold to customers.
We have been going for 3 years now and are at 25 studios.
All our repeat customers and referals are a result of people getting actual results ( the kind you are rude enough to dismiss.)
This results based business fundamental outstrips 1000 dodgy studies done on dodgy machines by 1000 academics.
I know you find this hard to understand as you only teach others work. You will just have to take my word for it as to how difficult it is to create something from scratch and make it work being surrounded by an unethical industry.
I will say it here and now and you can quote me on it.
" someday you will be teaching others what we are doing here "
My advice is simple. Open your mind and get with the program.
7 - sal m
Lloyd Shaw the Mortician says:
"The theory behind how Vibration Training actually works on the human body is still up for debate, but one thing is certain, IT WORKS!"
AND
"Vibration Training has been researched for over 20 years now with all the reports released pointing to the same conclusion, its safe and effective."
AND
"...most research has been done on machines we have not been given the full engineering tests for so we believe it unethical to repeat the test results until such time as these standards have been meet." But has no ethical dilemma in using this research to tell people that WBV works.
Researchers at the University of Melbourne say:
"(There is a)paucity of data currently available on the effects and underlying mechanisms of vibration training in humans.”
Doctor Laskowski of the Mayo Clinic says:
"Passive exercise via whole body vibration isn't an effective means of increasing your endurance, flexibility, strength or stability."
And of course there is the research that has recently been conducted and that is available on this site that found WBV to have NO effect on functional strength and performance.
The Vibra-Train folks need to get with the program.
8 - Hairynipples
I heard that Vibra-Train improved Wade Wilson's coaching ability as well...Dallas should forfeit the game to the 'Jints. This is unfair!
9 - sal m
nips..long time no see...i'm just waiting for lloyd shaw to make the claim that WBV can cure your "condition." since he claims WBV can reduce cellulite, perhaps it can also cure your "over-hirsute-ness."
10 - Hairynipples
Hirsute - a Beaut! I was just talking with our female assistant about my ear hair this morning. Is it any wonder I don't get any at work???
When does Lloyd's infomercial come out? Can't wait.
11 - Lloyd Shaw
Sal ....
I am very proud of being a Mortician .
I first considered your ingnorance amusing. Now I see it as dangerous and I believe you should not be a teacher or hold any position in a sporting body.
12 - Lloyd Shaw
Everybody needs to understand Sals motivation , and it in no way concerns people bettering their lives. Even when he was forced to admit it may help the infirm , he did not recommend it and instead suggested they get off their lazy asses and do some “proper” exercise.
What kind of person does that ?
Simply disgusting Sal.
I also do not believe Sal is stupid enough to think all platforms perform the same function , as he has tried to imply by putting all research results under the term WBV. It would be of a more logical conclusion that he is doing his best to mislead the public to back up his previous statements.
13 - sal m
my agenda is crystal clear...avoid snake oil - especially in the form of multi-thousand dollar machines for which there is no proof of efficacy, and avoid snake oil salesmen/charlatans who want people to beleive that the ONLY way to improve their fitness level is to spend money on an expensive gadget.
i'll stand with those who believe that exercise via movement - like the doctor from the Mayo Clinic and the vast majority of fitness and physical therapy professionals.
we have decades worth of data that shows that the aged and the infirm can improve their quality of live by real, honest exercise and no reliable data to indicate that WBV could or should replace exercise. walking, stretching, activity. these people don't need to be sold a bill of goods that involves them spending more money on something that is free.
in the case of Vibra-Train we have a company that cannot even produce a proper web site, let alone be trusted to tell people how and on what they should exercise.
i encourage people to go to the Vibra-Train site, especially women, and read Shaw's piece on WBV and celluite reduction. if you go to the Federal Trade Commission's web site you will see that there are hundreds of judgments against people and companies who have sold cellulite remedies to the public Federal Trade Commission . you'll find that the claims of these people are identical to the claims made on the Vibra-Train site.
14 - Lloyd Shaw
Sal...
You dont know the difference between Vibration and Electric current.
You can not be taken seriously.
15 - Lloyd Shaw
Sal...
You dont know the difference between Vibration and Electric current.
You can not be taken seriously.
16 - Lloyd Shaw
I have had a better idea than just pointing out Sals lack of eductation.
I will display his e-mail address in my studios and anyone who wishs to send a progress report on what is happening at Vibra-train and how it effects them can.
If he indeed stands by his claim that what I am doing cant work he will have no problem calling them liars or stupid or something along those lines.
This should be very ,very interesting as the consumer whom Sal is trying to protect and Sal both get to communicate directly.
I will report on what is passed back to me. And I will also report if Sal slinks away.
17 - Hairynipples
I've known Sal a long time. He is no slinker. He may be a drinker, but not a slinker. Can I post this numerous times to fill space? He once was friends with Lazlo Linky however.
18 - sal m
here's a little bit of data that lloyd the mortician has left out; he's already provided my email address to his minions. the paucity of supporters for WBV all hail from a few specific areas in New Zealand. the embarassingly transparent and poorly worded emails that i've received from lloyd and his crew all sound the same and parrot the same lines.
here's another selection from the mortician who fancies himself an expert on exercise and fitness. women should pay particular attention.
"I sat down & decided I was going to do my best to put my knowledge of the human body to the test & try to get to the bottom (no pun intended) of the one thing I have no risk of getting myself, but I figured if I cracked this problem I might get my picture next to a nice ass in the dictionary. I could not imagine a better thing to be remembered for in history. To get down to the nitty gritty of what I theorised. Cellulite starts a lot younger than any of you could probably imagine, somewhere between 10 & 14 years of age, that's right girls. Just at the age when you started to notice boys, nature starts doing its best to scare them off. I don't care what people say, God is funny or cruel, you take your choice. This is the series of unfortunate events in their chronological order.
Very early teens your body prepares itself for pregnancy
Massive hormonal changes including a rise in oestrogen & dip in testosterone
Lymphatic system slows down
Dietary changes combined with less exercise (chasing boys or extended shoe shopping trips doesn't count)
High heals on shoes"
i'm sure women are very pleased to be portrayed as creatures who just chase boys and go on shoe shopping trips. by the way, on shoes, it's "heels."
19 - Mike Hair
Hi Sal,
I just don't get your point on the last posting?
Is it that you are not allowed a sense of humour if you are involved in the health and fitness industry?
I have read a bit of your stuff, and I am not denying you now a little bit about excercise, But I can't seem to recall reading where you have come up with something original as opposed to something you have been taught.
I am in direct competition with Lloyd but respect the guy for what he has achieved, I think this tit for tat is stupid, especailly when all you can do is point out spelling mistakes, it just makes you out to be a fool.
I hope one day when Lloyd takes his machines to USA you will swollow your pride enough to go on them so you now what a real WBV machine feels like.
Kind Regards
Mike
20 - Mike Hair
Sal...
One more thing. I don't think it very professional of you to call people minions in an intended insulting kind of way, especially as these same people are the ones that pay to go to personal trainers such as yourself.
Infact the word is a complement towards Lloyd and a put down toward the people you were targeting as it means a follower or underling of a powerful person, esp. a servile or unimportant one.
How can you insult people that have factual results?
21 - Hairynipples
“I am not denying you now a little bit about excercise” = 2 mistakes
..”you will swollow your pride “ = 1 mistake
"Infact the word is a complement .." = 1 mistake
"I think this tit for tat is stupid, especailly when all ...." = 1 mistake
If you guys are so sensitive about Sal pointing out the spelling mistakes, don't you think it would be wise to not feed him anymore fodder to play with?
22 - Mike Hair
Hey hairy tits..
I may not have been the best at spelling when i was at school, but do you really think that makes a difference to proven results that people are getting with WBV?
You guys really are pathatik..pathetic.. Stupid!
23 - Lloyd Shaw
Sal..
You may want to note that the Womans Weekly , the largest womans mag in N.Z. and Australia are doing a series of articles with me because of that piece of cellulite.
It must be sad to take yourself so seriously .
Dealing with what I do every day in the mortuary forces me to appreciate that. Maybe you need to take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself why I am on a mission to change the world where you are finding it hard to change your mind.
24 - sal m
it's actually totally appropriate that a magazine that is concerned with with whether or not david beckham will cheat on posh spice should care what you have to say on the matter of cellulite and WBV.
Will David Beckham cheat on Posh?
Yes, she's too high maintenance
No, he's learnt from the previous time
Maybe, it depends on how far Posh will go for fame
actually the idle gossip and rumors that magazines like this are based on are the perfect setting for you and your WBV blather, as the "proof" that you claim to have to support the use of WBV is about the same level of rumor and gossip.
you have to start off with this This magazine is the perfect place for you to perpetuate your scam. among the articles about how a house plant can help to absorb radiation, whether or not geri hallowell is too thin, that kim cattrall prefers younger men and discussing if katie holmes is pregnant again, your rantings will fit right in.
you and your product are a great example of the peter principle in action.
25 - Lloyd Shaw
And besides I speak good England.