Vibra-Train’s website says that they are “Vibration Training Specialists.” Can they back up their claims with vibration training research?
Whole body vibration training has become somewhat popular over the past several years, thanks in small part to some celebrity endorsements and testimonials. However, real scientific data in the form of bona fide vibration training research is basically non-existent.…
Article comments
26 - Lloyd Shaw
What I am pointing out is your lack of sense of humour and what that represents.
Get some help.
27 - Lloyd Shaw
To explain my last statement...
To have a sense of humour takes spontaneous thought. This is a creative process you have shown you do not appreciate or possess.
That is why you are relegated to teaching and using others inventions or ideas.
Something you could change if you wanted to.
28 - Lloyd Shaw
Here is a few questions for everyone to ask themselves.
I will not ask Sal as he has been unable in the past to answer questions even about his own work ( a bit embarrassed I guess as he keeps changing the subject ).
Sal recently tried a unit costing about $400 but probably built for $40 and I will bet even he is not willing to argue that point. Some of the machines used in trials have not been much better than that. Sal has also already spent considerable time pointing out the holes in the methods of research.
So if my maths is right.
Bad machines + Bad research = Bad results
And yes I figured that all by myself.
Does anyone here really believe that the units that cost me $12,500 (N.Z.) to build do the same thing.
Why wouldn't I just buy cheap machines and flog them off to the public. Wouldnt thats what any self respecting scam artist do ?
I have spent the last 4 years off my life writing equations , designing machines , doing the theory and writing more material , all while fighting off people like Sal.
Why bother ?
29 - Hairynipples
Dear Mike Hairball,
Spelling in a presentation or defense of a product is akin to the loose thread on a new garment - keep tugging at the loose threads and you will find whether the product holds together or will fall apart. Building credibility is a journey of careful steps and takes time. Losing credibility can be a faulty step that eventually leads to the perception that the product is not up to par or can meet its sponsor’s claims.
To put it in more simplified terms, if you want your message to be judged as intelligent, it usually helps to make sure the speaker appears intelligent as well - thus where spelling accuracy comes into play.
Sincerely,
Unshorn Areolas
30 - Mike Hair
I guess that means grammar mistakes as well?
A statement from Sal....
it's actually totally appropriate that a magazine that is concerned with with whether or not david beckham will cheat on posh spice should care what you have to say on the matter of cellulite and WBV. Maybe he could do with a proof reader!
As for your corrections..
I am not denying you now a little bit about excercise" = 2 mistakes.
I'm sorry only 1 mistake here.
I am not going for any Nobel prize for spelling in the near future, I do not build or sell any product therefore I fail to see the significance of your last statement.
31 - Wayne Campbell
Sal, you are getting really bitter and twisted because you are being exposed trying to criticise something you know nothing about apart from your biased and uninformed opinion based on what you read. You have done no real resarch apart from trying a cheap machine that you would have known , being the expert you claim to be, would be no different to standing on a lawn mower.
Really Sal lifes to short to be bitter and twisted, go and try a real WBV machine it has a calming effect on many people - as well as many other health benifits.
32 - Mike Hair
Apparently being juiced up on riods gives you a bitter and twisted affect?
33 - Wayne Campbell
Anb Sal if you do take my advice to try a real WBV machine - Lloyd Shaw would be only to happy to advise you on the best options available to you - even though it wont be one of his machines as they are not in your part of the world yet - He will still give you or anybody else recomendations on other brands - hes good like that
34 - Di Heap
Sal,
Firstly, thank you! This article and the following comments have improved my mood today immensely. It's possible I could give up WBV training and just read the articles about it to increase serotonin production and feel good... but alas, my fitness wont be improved by sitting on my fanny reading your anti-whole body vibration blogs. To have a strong healthy body I have to work-out.
Work-out - Now that's a word that was foreign to my vocabulary just six years ago. Having come last in every running race I was forced into in my school years, never able to catch a ball because of poor eyesight, and only ever able to hit a ball if I was wielding a big stick (hockey), I did not continue with any fitness regime in my adult life, except for walking which I enjoy, fishing which used to be my time-out and the regular activities of having a family. With modern living and a sedentary job this simply wasn't enough and I gradually put on a lot of weight which added problems to a pre-existing minor heart condition and saw me hospitalised twice with heart problems. Add in some other health problems and I simply wasn't going to make it to regular old-age.
I wish I had been told about WBV back then and how it could have helped me. Instead I did as you suggest and I worked very hard to get some fitness and lose weight. I was stubborn enough to keep at it and my partner who enjoys endurance running gave up running for a time to walk long distances with me. You're right, Sal, putting in the hard work (walking and weights) worked and I gained some fitness and very slowly lost weight. I've even competed in Race-Walking events and Fun Runs. So, I have no complaints with your suggestions that people help themselves, BUT, many people don't!
It's those MANY people who just don't and those who cannot, for various health reasons, take long distance walks and lift increasingly heavy weights that WBV training works so well for. And also for all those who do workout, WBV adds another choice and is definitely more fun and more challenging than an hour of weights. Add in athletes who benefit so much that many excel in their sport. And again, I am sounded like an advertisement!
I'm reminded of Victor Kiam, the American businessman, who said "I liked the Shaver so much, I bought the Company "(Remmington). I'd do just the same if I had the money. I can't say enough about the benefits of good quality WBV in general and Vibra-Train in particular. I'm happy to be labeled a Lloyd Shaw minion as you've said. With some qualifications in Pharmacy and other fields and being one who likes to keep learning, I don't tolerate snake-oil salesmen or fools who try to sell me the latest fad. I was not an instant convert to WBV and I persisted with questions about safety and efficacy for months. I spent hundreds of hours researching and checking over what I was told by Lloyd Shaw and others. I visited several different brand studios but did my 2-3x weekly workout at Vibra-Train . My strength and fitness has improved so much this year. I have no way to quantify it. Recent blood tests returned all normal results including normal blood sugar and insulin which has been a problem area for 20 years previously. I have not added extra cardio but have reduced this, this year. After being stayed at a certain weight for a year, I am slowly losing weight again and WBV helps with this also. I've stated many times that the greatest benefit I have obtained has been vastly improved core stability with cessation of pain in my left side and nerve pain that traveled down my leg.
You've called my results an anecdotal success story that is just rumor and gossip. I call it success in improving health and fitness. In fact I'm so happy with my results that I put my name to them so they are easily verified. Lloyd Shaw has no control over what I say or don't say on Internet blogs. He corrects any errors I make.
I hope that people will take note of my experience and results and Give It a Go for themselves.
35 - Di Heap
Sal
You seem to have missed a link on the first page of the current Google Search. It's an article on Vibration Training by Nick Grantham, Lead strength and conditioning coach, West Midlands region of The English Institute of Sports. He gives a summary of the research to date including it's use in many sports disciplines. He tells of studies that fail to show any improvements after use of WBV platforms and of studies that show some benefits. He states "Expect more weight training research before too long." He notes that Vibration Training could be used to optimise recovery from an ACL injury. (You will, as always, negate this because of the word "could"). He notes animal studies that show improvement in bone mass and mechanical competence and the failure of a later study on healthy young adults to replicate this and notes that research in this area continues.
Also that research has shown that WBV may have a positive impact on proprioceptive control of posture in stroke patients. (Ah, that word "may" that is one of the words used in research results and so you will negate this result). Also that WBV may be an effective tool in treating patients with motor dysfunction of spinal origin and has been used to improve the symptoms of Parkinson’s
disease.
The final statements say it all:
"Note, however, that the research is in its infancy and the scientists are still trying to find out what are the most effective combinations to enhance athletic performance. Some researchers even suggest that the ideal vibration training method is dependent on the individual athlete. As ever, there is no one-size-fits-all or magic quick fix in training and rehab.
Should we all rush out and buy vibration platforms for our clinics? Despite the mounting body of evidence in support of this modality, the jury is still out. Marco Cardinale and Carmelo Bosco sum it up in their review paper, in which they recommend that studies should continue to explore the effects of long-term vibration training on different physiological parameters and should define appropriate training protocols."
I believe that research must continue as it can only be based on the specific machine, parameters, and program used for the specific study being done. Generalised results can be useful but must be read as such (general not specific). Personal success stories are one of the reasons the Vibra-Train brand continues to grow. In what other WBV company can a customer relentlessly quizz the actual designer of the machines and program, either by meeting him in person or by calling by phone. You have criticised Lloyd Shaw because of spelling errors on his website and his humorous approach to issues like cellulite. Many people in New Zealand, Australia and worldwide trust him completely and appreciate his humor. His gains from having a quality product and long hours of work involved are not monetary from what I've observed in knowing him this year. He'd be better off financially selling bottled snake-oil or some poorly designed, poorly made, mass produced "made in China with guaranteed quality fade" platform. I can see that his integrity would never let him do this.
36 - Lloyd Shaw
I dont think Sal even remotely understands how much money I could have made ,and how much damage I could have done , if I was on the darker side of this industry.
The real dodgy ones wont even enter into a conversation with you Sal , just try it. They would instead keep well clear of your site and go for much softer targets knowing that any traffic attracted to the controversy our blogs create could lose them sales.
I dont exactly follow the "path of least resistance" mentality that comes with a scamer as you suggest.
I do not also promote the idea that...
No effort = Massive outcome
I do not believe you can cheat your way to health which is where you get it all wrong. What I do is shorter than you would expect but also harder than you would expect .
What annoys me is you have ( for your own personal reasons ) lumped me in with those whom I stand against in a deliberate attempt to stop me from helping people.
One day you will fell bad about this.
37 - Di Heap
Sal
A Scenario: You set an exercise program for a client and they follow it for a set period of time, say 6 months, along with regular meetings with you for follow-up, increasing intensity or refinement of the program and personal training. After 6 months they show visible body shape changes and medical analysis (body composition analyser equipment or similar) shows improved muscle mass %, lowered fat %, lowered weight, increased bone density, what is your reaction to these results? Do you call them chance?, an anecdotal success story, maybe even totally unrelated to the program you set because the person might have followed another plan along with yours?
No, I think you would call the results Successful and encourage the client to continue with and expand on the program, to set new goals,to enter events if they want competition. You'd feel good about your ability to design the program and your part in motivating the client toward their success.
If you knew that the client had previously been under the instruction of another Trainer/Company who hadn't planned a suitable program for them, but instead gave them printed sheet of instructions and some cheap non-certified calibration dumbells and sent them home to get with the program and report back after the six months, if at all, I expect you would be very scathing in your opinion and speech toward that other Trainer/Company. If you cared about your clients, potential clients, and industry, you'd want to Clean it Up and get rid of the poorly performing operators who take the $'s but don't give a quality product/service.
Vibra-Train provides a top quality product in a studio setting where clients get personal Instruction at every training session. Because of the nature of the type of training everyone (who can walk and sit down on a chair, which is most people) does the same program with only some minor variation for those who are not able to manage the full program or wheelchair bound. Intensity can be varied and so can the Machine, which are varied in force. Guidance, posture correction because correct position on the machines is essential, with encouragement or growling (to those like me who still manage to have less than perfect posture control on the machines) is provided at every session. Compare this to the make-a-quick-buck importers and sellers of cheap, low quality home machines, some supplied without any program, just as I have compared your personal training skills to those of an inept operator and you will know who to target in your articles against WBV training.
Some of the well known Operators are almost as bad, as you have noted. Solarflex as you point out does not live up to it's advertising claims. Power-Plate changed the manufacturing material and country of manufacture of their platform and continued to release it branded as before, when it's specs were vastly different.
Labeling a whole Industry as a fad and snake oil salesmen when there are honest operators who are making a difference to people's health and fitness is like me saying that all weight training is a fad because someone sold me a cheap "StuffMart" package weights and program.
The Doctor from Mayo Clinic is another who will be shown to be in error in the future. I was aware of his stance as his was one opinion I found when I first looked into WBV. I bet, like you, he has never experienced a workout session on a quality WBV platform. It concerns me that so many more people could be helped if people, who are in positions of influence like you, actually stopped writing against a method you have yet to experience in a quality setting using a quality program for a period of time and got out there and tried it. Borrowing a Soloflex and on that basing your whole experience on that minor platform makes you worse than those who criticise out of ignorance. You know better!
38 - Hairynipples
Mike Hair
"As for your corrections..
I am not denying you now a little bit about excercise" = 2 mistakes.
I'm sorry only 1 mistake here."
OK, let’s point it out to make it a little more obvious:
"now" is spelled correctly for the definition of "at the present time or moment". However I believe from the context of your message, you meant to spell "know" which is defined as "to perceive or understand as fact or truth; to apprehend clearly and with certainty". This would be mistake #1.
Mistake #2 is clearly "excercise" which should be spelled as "exercise".
This takes us back to creditability again and again - and take note, I am not an English teacher, but I do rely heavily on RESEARCH, in this case referencing MS Word Spell-Check and the DICTIONARY.COM web site.
Next debate? Can't we move on to terrible football programs and other crap like that?
39 - mike Hair
furry boobs...
You are correct, looks like i cant read as well as spell properly.
Maybe i'll just stick to what i'm good at... Helping people get results by WBV.
40 - Lloyd Shaw
Ok , one question Sal...
Do you think Vibra-Train is hard work ?
41 - Di Heap
It seems that Sal has run away after criticizing Vibra-Train. Maybe he's actually tried a quality machine, maybe Vibra-Train and he's so amazed at how much HARD WORK it is that he's embarrassed to come back and comment.
42 - Lloyd Shaw
" This kind of laziness is inexcusable"
Bit rich coming from a guy too lazy to actually try the product he is talking about.
43 - TC
Hi Sal,
I have been busy and did not have the time to read blogs and forums for a while.
Just read this latest one of yours and I went to read the comment on Viration Training from Dr. Laskowski and his staff of Mayo Clinic.
I have a problem with these professionals' opinion. Are their comments based on their research/study through trial? What mechanism or which vibration training machine did they try or use for study?
If Dr. Laskowski and his staff made those comments without actual experience on vibration training. Their comments are inappropriate. I am not challenging their medical knowledge but they just don't know Vibraion Training. If anyone makes conclusion on something which is out of one's knowledge, it is inappropriate.
As I quoted U.S. exercise physiologist, Dr. Larry Leigh's comment in the other of your blog, "YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND UNTIL YOU FEEL IT".
Something you do not know yet does not mean it does not work! And obviously, no one knows everything in the universe!
Timothy CHAN
44 - Adam Scislowicz
I haven't drawn any conclusions regarding vibration therapy. It certainly seems unlikely to be suitable as a replacement for resistance training as there is no sarcomeric tearing to set off hypertrophy. However there do appear to be several studies supporting an increase in bone density after regular use of ~50Hz vibration.
Also next time search google scholar, searching google std for scientific studies is just asking to find half-baked pseudo-studies. Not to be too forward, but perhaps you wanted to find the half-backed pseudo-studies?
45 - Lloyd Shaw Vibra-Train
Most studies are pathetic and miss the relavent points. Like one recent test that showed rats lost abdominal fat using Vibtation Training but with no indication in the study of rat to human scale of the vibrations used.
46 - Lloyd Shaw
Scientific America report , Jan 2008…...
The reports starts out by saying ” Exercise takes energy , and presumably that combats obesity.”
Good start….
Scientists at Stony Brook University found that Vibrating mice for 15mins every other day reduced Body-Fat% by 27%. The body fat mainly decreased in their torso. They also had significant reductions in fatty compounds linked to type2 diabetes.
Now this is great for our industry that these guys have decided to do animal trials for relevent things like obesity , instead of seeing how hign they can make people jump.
47 - Janelle
Vibratrain is INCREDIBLY good
48 - D2barri
Hi - I have been using the vibratrain for 30 minutes Monday - Friday and I let the weekend do the healing. I have lost 1.35kg's in my first week it does work !!
49 - Philippa Church
Just want to add a few thoughts on the importance of trying a high quality machine for Sal (mind you from the lack of any responses from Sal maybe he no longer reads this??) I first started Vibration Training on a really poor quality pivotal (probably a bit like the one Sal tried?). Although (call me crazy) I actually loved the feeling of being shaken to death, the machine did nothing what so ever in terms of creating any muscle fatigue and therefore building muscle mass. I then tried a Powerplate which compared the pivotal was much better and did create some muscle fatigue and I did notice some difference to muscle tone and strength. A thought about getting my own machine somehow metamorphosed into opening my own studio and I got 3 Hypergravity solid steel machines. The difference between these and the Powerplate was significant. These had the ability to make you HURT!!! It was by no means unusual for clients to lose around 3 inches from hips, 3 inches from waist and about 1.5 inches from each thigh in around 10-12 sessions. Almost everyone noticed improvements in how much stronger and firmer they became and the rehab benefits too were numerous. I have just recently upgraded to Vibra-train machines - they have now made it to the UK - Hooray! And once again the difference between these and the Hypergravities is a big one. Clients who have been coming to us for over six months are seeing a real step up in terms of their muscle growth, inch loss - and my God they are tough! Anyone who thinks this is an easy, effort free way to exercise needs to try it. If I could create a picture gallery of the screwed up faces in the throws of total muscle fatigue I would make a fortune. People virtually stagger out of the studio at times - legs like jelly - and this included top athletes and body-builders. We offer a free induction and have around a 95% rebooking rate. This would not happen if it did not work
So... to summarise -From my experience Vibration Training does without a doubt increase muscle mass and creates inch loss... BUT these factors are hugely dependent on the quality of the machine being used. And... FYI - it does work on cellulite!