Here’s the latest celebrity fitness nonsense - The Power Plate - thanks to Madonna.
As Madonna performs in London, the word is the aging pop star has kept her fabulous figure fabulous by using a faddish gadget known as the Power Plate. The Power Plate is a vibrating platform you stand on while assuming various positions, which – according to testimonials and marketing materials – can strengthen and tone and all that good stuff in just ten minutes a day, three days per week.…
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— go to most recent comments26 - sal m
if your thoughts were expressed clearly we could follow them and perhaps make heads or tails out of them.
whatever control that exists on this site with regard to comments had no effect on the passage i highlighted in the above.
your knowledge of science may be impressive, however that knowledge - as you've attempted to express it - has nothing to do with training and conditioning healthy individuals. there are all kinds of therapies that are employed in the aid and rehabilitation of people who are diminished due to disease and injury, but this doesn't mean that they have a valid application with regard to healthy members of the population.
if you had read the piece that you are commenting on, and had visited the power plate site to see what research that they provide in the attempt to support their claims, you wouldn't have to ask me to which studies i am refering. and with your vast knowledge you would surely see that the claims made by the power plate people are not supported by this research. or maybe your father in law could explain it to you.
27 - Marc
Sal. You need to try out the Power Plate before blasting it the way you do. I have worked out on the Power Plate for almost 2 years, I have dropped 48 lbs, and 50% of my body fat. I have better flexibility and range of motion and muscle definition than when I was a teenager. I have herniated discs that caused intense pain in my lower back and down my right leg before Power Plate, and now the pain is gone completely. You are overanalyzing the research, and not using the machine. Use it for one month, and then you can give an educated opinion.
28 - sal m
marc:
no offense, but nonsense is nonsense.
i am not overanalyzing the research but reading the studies and comparing the results of these studies to the claims made by the power plate people.
your testimonial is meaningless anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded in the same light as any alleged success stories that accompany the advertisments for every unproven and untested health and fitness panacea that has ever hit the scene.
29 - Bob C
What do you think of the Wave machine sal?
30 - sal m
the wave machine is just another farce.
the "reporter" who was included in the video on the wave machine site should be embarrassed.
some people are shameless and will do - and say - anything to make a buck.
31 - D Leigha
I had to actually shake my head at his one
"your knowledge of science may be impressive, however that knowledge - as you've attempted to express it - has nothing to do with training and conditioning healthy individuals."
Sal, I not sure if you are grasping what I am saying. You are actually questioning the effectiveness of whole body vibration exercise. I had to explain about gravity because you are seeming not to understand that gravity has everything to do with exercise and muscle conditioning. This is in fact why healthy astronuats lost bone density and muscle mass in space at alarming rates. Gravity has everything to do with exercise and if you truly understood this, then you would be able to accept whole body vibration exercise. This is not opinion here, but scientific facts. I actually have read almost every available study done on wbv and healthy individuals and I am sorry to say, your wrong on this one. The claims made by Power Plate or Hypergravity have been absolutely verified by years of research. Maybe it is hard to comprehend but ANY time you work your muscles, regardless of what stimulus you are using, you are going to benefit from all of the effects of it. This is going to be increases in good hormones, metabolism, lower blood pressure, etc. And by the way, Sal, you NEVER can dismiss anecdotal evidence. You would be wiping out 2,000 years of data if you did. I think you should try the machine for two weeks and then give your opinion, otherwise I am sorry to say you are simply not qualified to be asked or to give an opinion about this kind of exercise.
32 - D Leigha
Oh, I forget to mention something. My inital comments were directed toward the absurd comments you made about whole body vibrations and how if in fact it truly worked, then people riding the subway or using a jack hammer would be in shape. These comments speak for themselves and they are screaming "uneducated"! In a subway you would be accelerating through space horizontally. While using a jack hammer you would be introducing 20 HZ vibrations horizontally through your arm. This is not whole body vibration exercise.
P.S. If anyone is truly interested in learning about whole body vibration exercise, I suggest going to www.wholebodyvibes.com where they make the Hypergravity, the best platform made in the USA.
33 - sal m
once again you throw out jargon and technical nonsense and avoid dealing with the fact that the studies that power plate uses to support their claims on their site do not support their claims. all we get is a link to a site for another useless piece of equipment.
it was posted:
"And by the way, Sal, you NEVER can dismiss anecdotal evidence."
yes you can, when you are dealing with scientific evidence that is contrary to the anecdotal evidence. you can also discount anecdotal evidence when it accompanies gimmicks, gadgets, fads and useless dietary supplements.
anecdotal evidence can be dismissed in the case of the unsubstantiated claims made for the power plate and whole body vibration training.
34 - gabby
sal, I think that the only one trying to get attention is you, on PowerPlate's account.
SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE !!! is this what you want? Then check the numbreous studies performed by NASA, and feel free to ask them directly about their veridicity, stating your "20 years of experience" on that claim. NASA uses POWER PLATE since 2003, because it represents the PREMIUM machine of the WBV technology, the only viable technology for 0 gravity, that also copmresses the valuable time of the scientists.
And NO, it is not a panaceum as you said, but an alternative and/or a complementary way of training:
- use only the Power Plate and it will have effects;
- use it in combination with cardio or isokinetic and it will work;
- use it for determined goals integrated in the specific training for different sports and it will also work;
- but for you just a simple test (use it correctly with isometic and then check your Fmax - I also state my 20 years of experience on it !!!)
35 - D Leigha
Go Gabby :)
Exactly right Sal. Maybe a few of the studies Power Plate puts up are not the best examples, but you must understand there are hundreds more that are excellent examples.
Sorry Sal, I think all of your arguments have been intelligently confuted. There really is nothing to discuss here anymore except how you should stop giving invalid opinions BEFORE you
a) learn about & understand the science behind it
b) even try a Power Plate or Hypergravity
Also, I am sorry to say but there is NOT ONE celebrity endorsement from any of the companies that sell wbv platforms. So your marketing argument is again, invalid. These companies are simply listing there clients, and they happen to be the elite of society such as celebrities, doctors, universities, NASA, etc.
36 - sal m
i'm glad the two WBV proponents understand each other. apparently circuitous logic and lack of evidence are common traits to those who believe in the fantasy of WBV.
with all of this talk about all of these studies that "prove" that WBV works, there has been not one reference to an actual, complete study to support your point of view. the manufacturers of these products can't provide better supporting data and neither can the two WBV'ers.
to say that a vibrating platform works in conjunction with traditional exercise is a joke. that's like all of the scam dietary supplement marketers who say that their pill will help people lose weight as long as they diet and exercise.
keep it coming though, you are quite entertaining.
37 - gabby
Sal, [Personal attack deleted]
You come into contact with people and start a "debate" in which you want to have the last word, [Personal attack deleted].
The reality is that the world will evolve and you can't do nothing against that, and YES the WBV is part of the evolutionary process. The freedom of speech is also part of that evolution. This is how any nut can get his 15 minutes of fame and a month's load of serotonine in an amusing yet ignorable way. Tell us Sal, how did you determined that the WBV is not working??? Can it be that it was your lack of real scientifical experience [Personal attack deleted].
[Personal attack deleted]
That makes your claims invalid and my time to precious to spend on your amateur blog.
I will continue to use the Power PLate in my trainings and we'll meet at the 2008 olympics, to see if I was right !!!
38 - sal m
gabby:
there is a no personal attacks policy here at blogcritics.
however, i do not adhere to this policy in the monitoring of the comments on my items precisely because of people like you, who when faced with facts that they cannot refute, resort to calling names.
you have had ample time to provide links to studies that support the point of view that wbv training actually provides benefits. you cannot do so, so you launch a personal attack.
actually this approach is fitting and representative of someone who ignores reality and is a proponent of wbv training.
it's also easy for anonymous randoms to post nonsense without having to backup anything that they say.
your comments can be viewed in this light. and i'm sure we'll see you in the olympics in 2008.
39 - D Leigha
Sal, you need to quit your job NOW! It is quite alarming how someone with no concept of how the body works can be offering fitness advice to anyone.Let me explain something important in real easy to understand language so you don't get confused. Using weights, or using resistance bands are only the STIMULUS. They are not what makes the muscles grow bigger or stronger or more toned. Our own body and its amazing adaptablility and compensation responses are the actual key, along with gravity. Since we are in a constant state of pull because of gravity, you can add LOAD to the body and it responds and adapts OR you can become very clever and instead of LOAD you can use ACCELERATION - which your body adapts and adjusts to quite rapidily. It is the same with health.A pill is never the answer to combating a problem - but our own body already has something that will cure us- our own immune system - and it is whether you are stimulating it or suppressing it that is the actual answer. WBV exercise is just a smarter stimulus applied to your body. Your body compensates to the rapid imbalance by trying to create balance. During the WBV exercise your body is only responding the to muscle reflex that is occuring at speeds of 40-60 per second!And if you are actually questioning this, I dare you to stand on the Hypergravity machine and tell me you feel anything different!This whole blog isn't about whether WBV exercise is better, smarter, or faster exercise but it seems to be about your lack of understanding basic scientific and physiological facts.
40 - Victor Plenty
The importance of LOAD is well understood by pseudoscience gadget marketers. Knowing what their material is a LOAD of is the key to avoiding being swindled.
41 - D Leigha
P.S. Studies you might find interesting.
1. Bonner Physical Therapy Metabolic Study 2003
(10 min. WBV exercise 3x week ttl 6 wks = 18% increase in resting metabolism)
2. Oki & Matoba 1997 - Kurume Medical Journal 1989
(WBV 30-60HZ for 12 weeks = suppressed the development of atherosclerosis and in lipid metabolism)
3. Dr. Olivier Bruyere Elderly Study 2003
(WBV exercise for 10 mins 3x week for 6 weeks =143% increase in physical function, 77% increase in equilibrium, 57% increase in quality of walking, 60% increase in vitality, 41% improvement from pain)
4. Bosco 1999 Study
(WBV exercise increased average velocity, average force and power in fit subjects)
5. 2001 Blackwell Science - Clinical Physiology
(WBV exercise leads to significant alterations in muscle blood volume)
6. J. Rittweger Oct 2001 Springer-Verlag 2001
(WVB exercise led to increased metabolic power due to muscular activity and led to increased oxygen uptake)
7. Christopher Delecluse, Machteld Roelants, Sabine Verschueren 2003 - Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise
(WBV exercise for 3x ttl 12 wks = "The results clearly indicate that strength, and isometric and isokinetic strength, SIGNIFICANTLY improved after WBV training" strength increased more than the resistance trainging group and ONLY in the WVB group did explosive strength increase)
8. 2005 Lee & Dankos Study on Fibromyalgia Patients
(WVB exercise 2x per 8 weeks = wbv exercise showed significant improvements with pain management, vitality, and decreased anxiousness and depression. The group also showed higher levels of improvement of physical activites)
9. JD Bastian, W Franz Lutrina Klinik, Department of Knee Surgery Germany
( WBV exercise 10 mins 2x per 10 weeks on ACL ruptured patients post operation = WBV led to accelerated increase of muscle thickness, recovery of coordinative abilities and improvement of muscular flexibility = overall increase in recovery of ACL rupture)
10. O Schuhfried,C Mittermaier, T Jovanovic, K Pieber, T Paternostro-Sluga 2005 Clinical Rehabilitation
(WBV positively influenced postural control and mobility in Multiple Sclerosis patients)
11. 2005 M Cardinale, J Wakeling - Br J Sports Med 2005
(" WBV exercise has been shown to cause clear metabolic responses similar to other forms of exercise")
12. Nazarov V, Moscow 1985
(Development of athletes strength abilities by means of biomechanical stimulation method)
42 - D Leigha
Victor - we can discuss all day how people invent gadgets to sell and take advantage of others. But that is not the point of the blog. Whole Body Vibration exercise is no gadget. The science is solid and so are the effects. Now you are dead right about one thing - accept nothing but the best wbv platform out there. How do you decide which is the best?
Simple...KNOW THIS-
1. that all studies were done on an ALL STEEL platforms - any other material is inferior
2. all studies used vertical acceleration of 2-5mm between 20-60Hz - any other method has not been verified (such as sound waves)
3. there are only 2 companies I know of that have stayed with these rules - the ORIGINAL power plate which is now VIBROGYM (www.vibrogym.nl) made in the Netherlands @ 10-14K,
and the HYPERGRAVITY made in the USA @ $3500 (www.wholebodyvibes.com)
43 - sal m
very interesting. what is the remarkable is the lack of details included in these "studies."
taking the bonner "study" as an example of this "proof," here is exactly what it says under the heading of Metabolic Study Shows Promise.
"In an attempt to either disprove or lend credence to the claim 'using vibration training can give you as good a workout in 10 minutes as an hour and a half at the gym'
Bonner Physical Therapy have (sic) recently completed a six-week study.
Test subjects were divided into two groups and each went through the same exercise routine with the primary difference being one group incorporated a 10-minute vibration training three times a week in their routine and a similar group did the same routine with out (sic) the vibration.
The difference which really jumped out in the out comes was the vibration group experienced an 18% in resting metabolism while the control group showed a 2% decline"
This isn't proof, nor is it a study, as it is a joke. There are no details as to how many subjects were included in this "study," what the training/health status of these individuals were or any other pertinent data.
as a matter of fact, this "study" indicates that there are actually negative metabolic effects in training programs that DO NOT include WBV training. This is clearly at odds with every reliable and legit study ever done on exercise and metabolism.
the elderly study, number 3 on this list, is a study that looked at the results of 42 sedentary seniors who lived in an assisted living facility.
using sedentary and infirm senior citizens is a great way to produce off-the-charts results when studying any kind of exercise and this trick is right out of the health and fitness gadgeteers handbook. people who do nothing and have done nothing for their entire life are going to improve balance, gait, etc when anything involving standing up and moving is involved.
this may constitute proof to you as an anonymous internet shill for the WBV industry, but stop wasting our time with this claptrap.
44 - sal m
victor:
you have it right as what passes for "science" in the WBV game is different that what it means in the real world.
any study that shows a 2% decrease in metabolic rate as a result of exercise should be thrown in the garbage and not used as proof of anything, other than what constitutes a poorly designed study.
45 - D Leigha
Any study that has ever been conducted on anything cannot possibly have all of the optimal components included. That's riduculous and not mirroring real daily life. You guys are going to see what you want to see. What about the study about Resistance Training and how WBV was significantly better? You must realize some studies are not going to be as in depth as others- that's common sense. The bottom line is this is like conversing with someone about a book that they have never even read! You need the actual experience to even have an opinion about this. You guys still are NOT able to dispute the science or physiological responses that occur while engaged in wbv training. Hey- I have an idea..why don't you guys go to the Johnson Training Center (NASA) and give them your astute opinions!Enough said!
46 - Victor Plenty
Yeah, I guess since I don't have $14,000 sitting around with nothing better to do, I'll never be truly qualified to comment about the scientific validity of studies that supposedly prove the vigorous value and virtue of the vibrodoohickey.
Right. Uh huh.
47 - D Leigha
where do you live Victor?I bet I can help you find one you can try out so then we can have some real dialogue!
48 - D Leigha
By the way, has any of you out there read Sal's other blogs? Go see what I mean an I rest my case!
49 - Matthew T. Sussman
If you read Sal's other work you'll be in awe of the quality research he does, so I wholeheartedly agree with you there.
50 - DJRadiohead
I concur with Suss. Sal definitely does his homework before he writes or appears on the BCRadio podcast.
51 - sal m
d leigha from the comfort of anonymity that the internet provides has offered no proof to support his position, as a shill for the WBV industry, that WBV training can offer any benefits whatsoever.
he has repeatedly brought up the subject of the research that NASA has done on WBV training without providing any further information.
as a matter of fact, if you do a search for "WBV" and "nasa" you will find dozens of hits that are result of these WBV platform shamsters touting this NASA study without providing any details of this study.
even though NASA may be using WBV to attempt to oounteract the affects of weightlessness on astronauts returning from space, NASA has just begun to study if in fact WBV actually does anything. and for anyone to make the assertion or assumption that WBV has any relevance to members of the healthy population is to ignore the data.
i will gladly let d leigha have the last word on this since every word of his from the first has been meaningless, and at every turn his attempt to offer proof for WBV as a valid exercise modality has done nothing but further my point that WBV is a sham.
52 - D Leigha
First of all, I, D Leigha, am a female. Second, I offered you 12 of the hundreds of studies and you only had comments about 2 of them. So now they are all invalid somehow? I don't think so. Also, just because you type in wbv into google and they all do not show up, that doesn't mean they are not there. The bottom line is this - is there ONE SINGLE person in ANY of these studies that did NOT have a positive response to WBV exercise? The answer is NO and in fact they had NO negative ones either!ALL of them had positive responses and that, quite frankly, can NOT be refuted.
Lastly, you still have not been able to refute any of my counter-comments that I posted about your "supposed" points -
a)wbv exercise is NOT comparable to occupational vibrations as you had stated
b)gravity and Load OR Acceleration are the keys to body/muscle conditioning as you seem to not understand
c)not one wbv company uses celebrities endorsements as you stated
d)anecdotal evidence is never "worthless" as you stated or quite frankly you would be wiping out over 2,000 years of history
e)studies I provided have still not been refuted (opinions on 2 hardly suffice for dismissal of all)
f) your comments about my "meaningless"and "circuitous logic" are also INVALID because quite frankly, I have presented my ideas in an intelligent, cogent, and logical manner and have provided support for all of my ideas, which I can not say the same for you.
Goodbye
53 - artur
D Leigha : just a thought !!!
All steel platforms could not be the best as they have a natural elasticity (no matter the steel alloy you use) which in high vibration condition could damage the apparatus or transmit the vibration erratically.
As you said it's about acceleration and I can give you the best example : Formula 1 !!! those cars accelerate like hell, and they have not one part made of steel , but carbon fiber, aluminium and high quality plastic.
The trend-setter and market leader in WBV is the """POWER PLATE""", that also started this "blog", just because Madonna got one, and not by chance, but just because it is the best.
And another thing, vibrations of around 20 Hz could cause resonance in some tissues, this is why Power Plate uses 30-50 Hz. Also 50 and 60 Hz could not be objectively used for muscle strengthening, but rather for massage or stretching.
Other than that is good that the market expands and as I see you got your favourite, maybe we could stop "bothering" sal's blog and start our own, for people that want to find out about WBV, not necesarelly to adopt it ?
54 - D Leigha
Artur -That is why I was signing off There is nothing further to discuss with Sal as far as I'm concerned.
Now your comments about acceleration and steel. Quite frankly they are showing me you're not understanding a HUGE component.Formula 1 is accelerating you through space HORIZONTALLY. While WBV exercise is using VERTICAL acceleration to actually move your OWN body vertically. To actually move your own body in a vertical manner, physics dictate that you need enough mass to do so, which is why all STEEL is the ONLY kind of material you would ever want to use to accomplish that since any other kind of material is a poor conductor of vibration (sorry that's simple physics).
This blog was about whole body vibrations and if it was a scam and I have been refuting those allegations and also mentioned my opinion about the BEST platform and the ONLY on made in the USA, which is Hypergravity.
Let the people try them on their own and decide! Happy Vibrations!
55 - Dr. T Perkins, MD
Just came across this, seems pretty solid to me. Study conducted on 28 male athletes w/ a control group, results show nearly 50% increase in isotonic maximal strength with a very high degree of correlation (P < 0.001), etc. Published in the Journal of Sports Science... Here's the abstract from PubMed/MedLine:
Effect of vibratory stimulation training on maximal force and flexibility.
Journal of Sports Science 1994 Dec;12(6):561-6.
Issurin VB, Liebermann DG, Tenenbaum G.
Ribstein Centre for Research and Sport Medicine Sciences, Wingate Institute, Wingate Post, Israel.
In this study, we investigated a new method of training for maximal strength and flexibility, which included exertion with superimposed vibration (vibratory stimulation, VS) on target muscles. Twenty-eight male athletes were divided into three groups, and trained three times a week for 3 weeks in one of the following conditions: (A) conventional exercises for strength of the arms and VS stretching exercises for the legs; (B) VS strength exercises for the arms and conventional stretching exercises for the legs; (C) irrelevant training (control group). The vibration was applied at 44 Hz while its amplitude was 3 mm. The effect of training was evaluated by means of isotonic maximal force, heel-to-heel length in the two-leg split across, and flex-and-reach test for body flexion. The VS strength training yielded an average increase in isotonic maximal strength of 49.8%, compared with an average gain of 16% with conventional training, while no gain was observed for the control group. The VS flexibility training resulted in an average gain in the legs split of 14.5 cm compared with 4.1 cm for the conventional training and 2 cm for the control groups, respectively. The ANOVA revealed significant pre-post training effects and an interaction between pre-post training and 'treatment' effects (P < 0.001) for the isotonic maximal force and both flexibility tests. It was concluded that superimposed vibrations applied for short periods allow for increased gains in maximal strength and flexibility.
.
.
The more studies I read, the more I'm convinced this is legit. To be fair, Sal is right that the first study quoted by D Leigha is short on methodologies, but many of the other 11 studies checked out. You can look them up on MedLine.
56 - artur
D Leigha : this is a more interesting debate, so I will continue :)
Formula 1 was made example just to show the materials they use, not to say something about horizontal or vertical acceleration. If you want an exemple of vertical acceleration, then it could only be the space ship...how much steel do they have ?... almost as much as an F1 car.
Your comment "...to actually move your own body in a vertical manner, physics dictate that you need enough mass to do so...", would make Einstein twist in his grave. It's ENERGY you need to accelerate, MASS is the only thing you don't need, as it decreases the acceleration, and this is why you need a light weight STIFF material.
Steel is heavy, hard but NOT STIFF, as it has high a natural elasticity (no matter the alloy), and could only conduct vibrations erratically, making them uncontrolable (Sorry, but this is simple engineering!:)
POWER PLATE uses not just any plastic, but fiber reinforced, which is stiffer and more expensive than steel !!!, just because it is better for vibration transmission.
POWER PLATE it's actually the trend setter for WBV, and the market leader as YOU state on the hypergravity site...
57 - sal m
the other studies that are provided as "proof" by WBV manufactures are prime examples of the marketing ploy tactic where studies that were designed to produce a particular result take a wee bit of positive info that is applicable to a wee slice of a specific population and then extrapolate this data in order to make outlandish claims that are aimed at members of the entire population.
studying the elderly and infirm is a great example of this.
none of the studies from medline provide any kind of data that can allow anyone to say that WBV training is better than conventional training. these studies don't even provide cover for those who want to claim that WBV is even as good as conventional training.
wait until you read the review of the "proof" that the Hypergravity platform maker uses on their site.
58 - D Leigha
Artur- I am sorry you have no idea what you are talking about. I was trying to comment about your mention of Formula 1.
Are you serious? You are trying to compare whole body vibration therapy with a Formula 1 racing car? Why would you want vibrations coming from a racing car? Steel does not make you go fasterand quite frankly I will not comment anymore about that becasue it's nonsense. What I am talking about is mass and yes, energy (that is what is called a "given")with moving your OWN body vertically. Now- what material transfers those vibrations from a motor up to move your body? Steel. Sorry. but anything else ABSORBS the vibrations.
There is no way around this one. In fact that is why LLOYD SHAW who USED to be a Power Plate General Manager LEFT the company. Because after ORIGINAL Power Plate SPLIT UP and became 2 companies- 1 - VibraGym and the other Power Plate, Vibra Gym kept the ALL STEEL platform but is $14000 and Power Plate CHANGED and cheapened the materials they used to fiberglass and to be imported from China!
So-this means The ORIGINAL Power Plate is only VIBRAGYM. Sorry but Hypergravity came in and stuck with ALL STEEL and is ALL AMERICAN MADE. There just is no comparison anymore. The Hypergravity small one ($3500) is better than Power Plates Professional one ($9000)! LLOYD SHAW, who is an EXPERT felt like PP was misleading people at their expense, by changing the product but still trying to use the claims, then by cheapening the product and then overcharging.
Go to LLYODs forum on the site below if you are interested in learning more about Whole Body Vibration Exercise that really works!
59 - artur
D leigha: what is your area of expertise ? marketing ???
You came here in an advertorial ofensive, bombarding us with numbreous links to commercial sites.
The disscusion was ment for SPECIALISTS and the general public (using or not the WBV), it's not a commercial enterprise, so please, enough with the pompous exclamations of the marketing world.
And PLEASE < STOP associating all the second-hand brands with POWER PLATE.
Steel is ELASTIC, meaning NOT STIFF, absorbing the energy more than the fiber reinforced platic, and giving MORE mass to the device requiering more ENERGY to move it. I never said either steel or plastic makes you go faster (are you serious?) I just said it adds unnecesary weight, and forces the motors to work harder, and also INCREASE THE ENERGY CONSUMPTION. Why??? just to use american alloys :)
you said it needs more mass to accelerate, and I reacted saying you make physics ashamed....
STOP TWISTING MY WORDS !
I never associated F1 and WBV, I was just making a point to show you the materials they use are strong, just like the ones POWER PLATE uses...
(by the way vibrations are part of the racing driver's job as the car is so stiff - hmm, wonder why? - it can't dampen the shocks)
you talk about THE ORIGINAL plate, but you know all that came after POWER PLATE are only its copies....that's why you are unsuccessfully comparing them to it. Why are you so eager to attack the POWER PLATE concept? It will not increase your sales, because the public will eventually see through the 50's like "ALL STEEL, ALL AMERICAN" marketing bluff.
I completely agree with competition, and I wish you luck in your exploits, but your agresiveness reveales the lack of real subtance, effectiveness and character of those products.
60 - Dr. T Perkins, MD
Sal, for a fellow who is in search of truth, you seem to be pretty selective in which studies you choose to dwell on.
You said, "studying the elderly and infirm is a great example of this."
Let's assume for argument's sake that every study conducted on the elderly can be thrown out as it relates to fit individuals. That still doesn't address the Issurin, et. al. study which was conducted on 28 male athletes.
You said, "none of the studies from medline provide any kind of data that can allow anyone to say that WBV training is better than conventional training".
On the contrary I got the Issurin, et. al. study directly from Medline and it stated:
"The VS strength training yielded an average increase in isotonic maximal strength of 49.8%, compared with an average gain of 16% with conventional training, while no gain was observed for the control group."
Clearly, there is some advantage if the research shows this kind of improvement after just three weeks.
This study was published in the Journal of Sports Science, a very reputable journal that puts its credibility on the line every time they publish new findings. I've had fellow colleagues who were published in the Journal of Sports Science and I can guarantee you they have very stringent requirements of objectivity and high standards for research design.
So here's my question to you: Would you choose to simply dimiss this study outright?
I think your answer will shed much light into whether you are, in fact, a man of science or, as you call yourself, nothing more than a "healthy skeptic".
61 - D Leigha
Artur- whose the one misleading the public? You are. First off I have my degree in Art History, I just happen to be quite knowledgable about anti-aging, health and fitness. Secondly, I have never given links except in my last Post and that was to offer people options to go check for themselves. This blog is about the veracity of whole body vibration exercise. I have provided excellent support for my ideas. Now, as far as Power Plate is concerned when researching for one myself, I spoke with countless people about how their machine had broke down and they couldn't get it fixed and the more I researched I found out the truth.People can see my previous Posts about it. Anyway- I recommend anyone looking for the best plate to contact Llyod Shaw, who offers the best advice because he is one of the original designers of whole body vibration platforms and he is an expert in this stuff. The public should know the truth instead of being told which company came first or last..that doesn't matter at all since it is about quality. Also, what matters is that the public should be informed of all of the facts before making an decision. I am a consumer advocate and have been for years!
I rest my case, and this is my final Post :)
62 - Lloyd Shaw
Hello my name is Lloyd Shaw and was Power-Plates product manager. I left the company due its total lack of ethics and its irresponsable use of others scientific research. I tried my best to control this behaivour while i was there , but i was up against the "marketers'. I was never going to win.
You are talking about stolen reports , stolen awards , made up celebrity endorsments and specs "borrowed 'from other machines.
They tried to injunct me when i left. And lost.
I am now in the process of dismantling their company. In my country everyone knows the truth , and wont touch them.
And they are just one in a handfull ( aprox 50 worlwide ) of companies doing the same thing. So be carefull.
Now to the RESEARCH
There is some valid reseach out there about WBV but not alot. They have missed major parts of the bio-machanics involved , still working on a 3 or 4 part physics eqsn rather than the 9 parts its meant to be.
Instead of thinking ( which marketers are not famous for ), they just adjust the Hz or Amplitude to dangerous settings trying to find something that " Kinda" works.
This blog is interesting , if not a little closed minded in places , but at least makes people question everything they are told. You are all right to do so.
63 - Lloyd Shaw
And for historys sake, Vibration Thereapy was originaly written about by MD Arnold Snow , and used in 1912. And was latter used by Dr Harvey Kellogg.
Then came the russian models and NASAs TVIS system.
Everything after that is a copy of a copy . So quit with the feather fluffing.
64 - artur
LLOYD: we are a little confused about your appearance here, presented like a "GURU" by D Leigha... are you an aociate of hers, or just it's more nowledgeable RELAY ?
your comment:"I am now in the process of dismantling their company. In my country everyone knows the truth , and wont touch them.
And they are just one in a handfull ( aprox 50 worlwide ) of companies doing the same thing. So be carefull."it's a really "GURU" like affirmation...of course everybody else is wrong, that's what we call PARANOIA.
You talk about dangerous hertz, then take a look at D Leigha's hypergravity that deliveres 20 Hz, what about that ?
I saw the specs of your machine and they look a "little incomplete", but this is where it stops as I'm not in the mood for another "debate", like I had with D Leigha.
D Leigha: so now the mistery dissipates...of course it's just random knowledge you have about the WBV, then why start a debate on that?...it's just like I wrote you "... your agresiveness reveales the lack of real subtance, effectiveness and character of those products..."
You have no clue about materials or engineering, no profesional experience in training or the human body and you were telling me about "simple physics", and "provided excellent arguments"...CHECK PLEASE!
One question though: If you really are an art expert, then I'm sure you appreciated the splendid design of the POWER PLATE NEXT GENERATION...
I WAS WRONG TO DEBATE HERE. IT IS FULL WITH AMATEURS, BUT I CAN LIVE WITH THAT...SO I WILL STOP NOW AS I'M TIRED AND DISGUSTED BY THE LEVEL OF "EXPERTISE" TO WHICH I'M SUBJECTED.
VIBE AWAY, FAR AWAY!
65 - Lloyd Shaw
Power-Plates design was amended for economic reasons , not for any other. Fibra-Glass is much cheaper than steel. They where caught red handed making copies of the originals in China with no consent from Marcel Tamminga. By Kevin Barclay-Webb who understood the implications of this action if caught by the F.D.A. And had to produce something cheap anf fast.
And everybody with any ethics pulled out. Power-Plate went back to China,.
I had designed opposing magnets systems , amp coil plates and off-set counter weight units. But chose to do the research myself after trust had become quite an issue.
And no its unsafe to drop below 38hz unless part of a limited time physio program. As for my units ( 5 ), once you fully understsand bio-machinics , you can fully change the muscles reaction within 2hz. Extremes are for people who are just guessing.
And as for the GURU comment , you have proved it wise to maybe still be paranoid if people still understand Power-Plates behaviour , but endorse it.
After all , who would stop it , you ?
66 - Bill Simon
D Leigha -- In an earlier post, you said your father (I think it was) has collected research supporting the use of the vibrating machine. I'm considering signing up with a place that offers time on these machines, about would like to read UNBIASED scientific evaluations. Would you be willing to provide specifics of 2 or 3 or 4 of the journal articles your father found about these machines? If possible, articles that can be read on the Internet without purchasing a membership in sites I'll never have a reason to go back to again.
Thanks.
67 - Bill Simon
Incidentally, I'm amused to see on this site an ad for a book called "The Art of Deception" ... which is also the title of a book of mine, co-authored with America's most infamous computer hacker, Kevin Mitnick.
68 - Lara_C
sal,
You are clinging to the research no matter what people are telling you about their experience with the Powerplate. Are you really saying that NO ONE can benefit from using the Powerplate at all? Not ONE person, not even a little bit? I'm sure we should trust the research, but as we all know, people are different, both mentally and physically. So what may not work for me and you, might work for somebody else. Can you agree with that, at least?
69 - Lloyd Shaw
Everybody can benefit fron Vibration Therapy/Training . I think the confusion comes in when unethical marketers , decide to enlarge their target demographic by " tweeking " the specs on a model.
This causes a chain reaction in the confidence of the public that is not positive. With this being such a new industry is very sensitive to.
And as a result the people who need it most ( M.S. , MD , MND ,Parkinsons and the clinically obese etc...) never get pointed to the right unit.
So if your concern for others health is genuine, you would NEVER condone Power-Plate doing just that.
70 - A. Callaway
Lloyd...
You seem to be very well versed on the subject. It's tough because it's hard to get information regarding this field. I've performed static squats on an unmentioned vibration device and expierienced some knee pain now and again. Are you saying it is not advised to perform such positions below a 38 hz level??? Please tell me....I've tried to get on your messageboard(vibratrain) but it's been weeks and still have not recieved a confirmation. Also is your site still active? Please inform regarding the 38 hz issue Thanks.
71 - Lloyd Shaw
No the 38hz and below is more of an issue with long term contact and the lumbar.
My first guesse is you may be over extending on the squat. Try this.
Make sure your feet are flat on the plate , hip width apart , perfectly straight, look down to make sure your knees are just back from your toes ( from straight up and down ) . Then put a little more pressure through your heels than your toes while the machine is going.
And keep re-checking your position.
Even if you have a problem with your knees , this should fix it , as it allows stimulation to the concerned area , with no tissue breakdown. But enough signals for cellular repair.
Sorry my forum is on hold at moment.
72 - A Jefferson
this discussion reminds me of the episode of the Simpsons where Homer puts his fingers in his ears and sings 'la, la, la' to avoid hearing the other character's argument. All i can add (although i am not sure that you will listen!) is that since using the vibro platform my ass has become pert and lovely, and my legs all shapely. However i do find the platform makes me guff (wind/fart) anyone know why?;)
73 - D Leigha
I am only back because of Bill Simon's post and question for me. The studies my father-in-law provided for me were all recent-
1. Jan 2006- Effects of vibration and resistance training on neuromuscular and hormonal measures
2. April 2005- Whole body vibration exercise: are vibrations good for you?
3. April 2005 - Effects of wbv in patients with Multiple Sclerosis: a pilot study
4. 2006 The effects of random wbv on motor symptoms on Parkinson's disease
5. 2004 Short-term effects of whole-body vibration on postural control in unilateral chronic stroke patients: preliminary evidence
There were some more but for some reason he couldn't get them mailed to him. I am mailing them to wholebodyvibes.com so they can post them. Hope this helps.
P.S. Artur is a complete ignoramus! he is confusing SPEED with Acceleration - cars and shuttles have nothing to do with a vibrating platform that has to move you vertically- that can only be done correctly with steel.Artur's comments speak for themselves and show how truly sophomoric he is.
74 - artur
PPS:) D Leigha your comments speak for themselves...."making physiscs ashamed...", as I already said.
I only spoke about acceleration, not speed, and I was correct on every little detail. Speed it's a completely different subject that I could speak hours about, but ... not with you, as I'm sure you will tell me I need "more mass to get more speed"....:)
Steel it's a really nice material, but kinda oldfashioned and low on efficiency. It takes some courage to admit it but in the end technology revolution will provoque it...
I guess it must be really frustrating to have no real arguements and no QUALIFICATION to speak about this things, determining this melodramatic act, and howl for attention.
Sal. or anyone qualified, please explain D Leigha why is she wrong, beacuse I'm tired of this.
D, if you want we could debate about art, if that is your area of expertise, because it seems I attract you. Must be my magnetic vibe :)
75 - Lloyd Shaw
Artur , have you yourself ever designed , used , tested and successfully launch a machine onto the market ? Or is your arguement only symantic.
I have 5 now.
I was Power-Plates product manager when we changed fron stainless steel to plastic. I had tests done on the Next Generation and the "hull" absorbed 12hz . Dropping from 50hz to 38hz UNLOADED .
When Power-Plate had them retested , they came up 3gs short on its highest settings.
That is how i discovered the specs did not belong to that unit. But someone elses.
The numerous problems with such machines is i have 2 Power-Plate studios looking to purchase a license from me , so they can replace theres.
These people are not new to the industry. And recently disliked my stand against Power-Plate.
Please explain ?