Other findings of these researchers from the University of Maastricht in The Netherlands are, “Improvements are limited to initially weaker subjects” and that there were “limited improvements in maximal force in initially stronger participants.” What this means is that only the most unfit, incapable members of the population will get anything out of WBV training.
Another important conclusion reached by these researchers is that “WBV training needs to be performed at joint angles similar to angles used in the performance task to be improved.” This reality makes WBV impractical for the vast majority of the population and certainly for anyone who isn’t extremely limited. This study exposed subjects to WBV while either standing or sitting in a position where the knees were at a 70-degree angle.
The conclusions reached by these researchers indicate that in order to be effective, even on the most sedentary and unhealthy folks, WBV needs to be applied to joints while they are in specific positions and not as the joint works through its range of motion. Impractical, thy name is WBV.
A study titled "Effects of Acute Upper-Body Vibration on Strength and Power Variables in Climbers" (pg 527) conducted at Massey University in New Zealand found that exposure to upper-body vibration (UBV) did not demonstrate the “expected potential neuromuscular enhancements on climbing performance tests.” So here’s a study where researchers failed to confirm the benefits of UBV despite the fact that they “expected” to do so. After exposing climbers to arm-cranking, upper-body vibration via dumbbells and non-vibrating dumbbells the researchers found that there were no improvements in the medicine ball throw, hand grip strength, and in a specific climbing drill.
It’s worth noting that this is the first study to investigate the acute effect of UBV as it pertains to sport-specific strength and power, and the researchers found that UBV had no effect. The most telling observation/analysis of these researchers is where they say, “UBV exercises lacked specific muscular performance positions and angular displacements required to induce neuromuscular effects.” This statement serves to point out what should be obvious to everyone — if you aren’t moving, you aren’t exercising.
As certain as this data should serve as a death-knell for vibration training, just as certain is it that WBV hucksters will continue to shout down those of us who point out that the WBV emperor has no clothes. The marketing types that are trying to push these ineffective and expensive pieces of equipment on the unsuspecting public will invoke the meaningless intricacies that they alone have developed with regard to the “science” behind the WBV fad. This “science” is nothing more than marketing materials on steroids that are designed to intimidate and confuse people into thinking that WBV is a valid mode of training. Throwing scientific sounding terms at people is a tactic used by supplement and equipment companies in an effort to generate sales.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Lloyd Shaw
Sal...
The fact you deliberatly keep using a term like WBV to explain an entire industry , even though you know better , makes you actually worse than the marketers you dislike.
They do it for greed.
You do it to prop up your own arguement.
You are all just as bad as each other in my books.
2 - Lloyd Shaw
You still have not even tried this form of training for youreslf even though you wrote the first article debunking it 12 months ago.
You have to ask yourself one question folks. Would you trust a movie critic that had not even seen the actual movie. Just read others reviews ?
So dont bother with a comeback.
Lazy is not even the word for your lack of effort. And I dont do lazy.
3 - sal m
this is an interesting response, someone who says they don't do lazy, yet relies on data from a NASA study that doesn't pertain to real people in any way shape or form. and don't bother dealing with the results of studies that don't support the use of WBV.
actually, comparing movies to WBV is appropriate since most movies - like WBV - are fiction-based.
4 - Lloyd Shaw
I did not rely on anyones Data. I looked at what they hadn't done. I designed and built my own units surrounding my own Theories.
You are the one who apparently relies soley on others homework .
I do not believe you have ever been involved in inventing or developing something before . So the fact remains "everything" you use in daily life is a result of someone elses efforts but you take for granted where those ideas come from ?
Note: Most invention is 99% failure only 1% success.
As I have also said before , you have a good case with marketers being unethical. But I propose your mantra of " all machines dont work " is as bad as their " all machines do work ".
You should know better.
5 - Lloyd Shaw
This from some of the blogs Sal recieved in 2006 .
"What's interesting to me is that you seem to have formed an opinion without trying the machine or first hand knowledge of it."
"I think his argument would be more compelling if he were to actually test WBV for himself and report on the results." (Sal Supporter )
Kind of makes a joke of his statement about himself...
"I call on my 20 years of experience when I form my opinions and make judgements."
6 - sal m
here's a review of llyod's attempts to drum up support for a failed training method.
he tells me he has great research that shows that WBV works and he'd like to send it to me. he sends me the old NASA research that has nothing to do with human beings walking on the face of the earth. he also sends me the marketing materials from the manufacturer of one of these gimmicks.
when faced with research from neutral parties that reveal WBV to be a fraud he ignores this data and attacks the messenger.
no wonder WBV is failing to gain support.
7 - Lloyd Shaw
Sorry Sal....
I only developed my first unit in 2004. Considering you have never designed and released anything ever yourself I would not expect you to understand the process.
Unlike you my reputation is built on hard work. Not copying someone elses. So im sorry if its not as quick as you want.
But thankyou I am trying to fight obesity, and I think you just help me identify a new type.
Obesity of the mind.
8 - Lloyd Shaw
Yes I am still to prove myself to the world . but have 25 studios already in N.Z. and Australia and this growth is results driven. No fancy marketing.
We dont charge for peple with MS , MD , MND or Parkinsons and other life threatening disorders. We also sponsor people where their weight is a direct threat to their life.
And we are helping people.
You can sit behind your desk and dismiss that all you want. But it is far more real than your opinion.
9 - sal m
this is quite a system here...tell people that gimmick A works because it's backed by research. then someone actually looks at the research and reports that the research doesn't back the gimmick's use, and reports that new research doesn't support the use of the gimmick, and advises that the gimmick should not be "bought."
supporters of gimmick A - in this case WBV - tell the person who is reporting on these findings that he/she isn't qualified to make a judgement based on the fact that the person never tried gimmick A. when in the first place we're told that research supports the use of the gimmick. but it doesn't.
interesting.
bottom line is that people have been told that research shows WBV does certain things, when the reality is that it doesn't.
10 - Lloyd Shaw
"I call on my 20 years of EXPERIENCE when I form my opinions and make judgements."
Your words not mine. We have a saying here in N.Z.
Yea, Right !!!
11 - Lloyd Shaw
Only you could find negatives about such comments as..
“WBV will be an ideal therapy for people with low-performance capacity"
“Appears that half-squat strength training could be rendered more energy efficient through addition of vibration,”
“feasible to introduce WBV into regular training programs for purpose of muscle hypertrophy and fat reduction.”
The only fact here is that you have already painted yourself into a corner by publishing material about a subject you now admit you have not even experienced ( no excuses offered ). But putting your reputation on the line by saying it can never work.
If it does you will never live it down.
12 - Di Heap
The fourth study titled "Influence of Vibration Training on Energy Expenditure in Active Men" says that Energy Expenditure and Perceived Exertion are higher when doing semi-squat position with vibration compared with non vibration squat and heart rate isn’t significantly changed. Also EE and PE remain higher during recovery.
Quote:[Thus, it would appear that HS half-squat)strength training could be rendered more energy-efficient through the addition of vibration. Moreover, it would be feasible to introduce vibration exercises into regular training programs, particularly those whose key objective is muscle hypertrophy along with fat reduction.]
How can you write this up as if it were a negative result Sal? The wording of the result is "careful" as it is with many Studies, yet the result is positive!
In fact it's a result that my partner could tell you about as it's exactly the result he got from Vibration Training 2x weekly on a Specialised High-Force Sports Platform. He built up quad muscle (suitable for a Sprinter) and he was not happy at all as he is an Endurance Athlete. His complaint was not that Whole Body Vibration Training didn't work BUT that doing semi squat position on a high-force machine worked too well! He's taken a month off while continuing his running training and taking part in two run events and has just started WBV training again using a regular-force machine and the regular balanced program to help with general fitness and body core stability.
He laughs at your comment: "bottom line is that people have been told that research shows WBV does certain things, when the reality is that it doesn't."
It definitely did something for him. Firstly it gave him improved body core stability and overall fitness/strength, then it built up unwanted (for him) quads muscle hypertrophy (in both size and strength). Runners Run! Many avoid Cross-Training although they know they need it. Weights remain unused as they'd rather run for 60minutes. The only training apart from running that my partner was doing was Whole Body Vibration Training 2x week for 10mins.
If the Vibration Training didn't do it then maybe you can explain how he built up unwanted muscle hypertrophy by just running.
13 - sal m
the conclusions reached by the researchers in this study rely upon Perceived Exertion as well as Energy Expenditure to reach their conclusion.
PE injects a subjective measure into the equation. with regard to EE, the researchers did not include a control group to see if other methods could also result in increased EE while performing the squat. this is typical of these WBV studies. there are several ways these researchers could have increased energy expenditure while squatting, none of which involve peforming the exercise on an expensive piece of equipment.
with regard to the anecdotal success story that you provide, as i mention in the piece, this is just rumor and gossip.
14 - Lloyd Shaw
So your personal experiences should also not be repeated on blogs Sal , because in your own opinion they are worthless.
Strange thing to admit.
15 - Di Heap
Energy Expenditure and Perceived Exertion
Try (or imagine) this test: 1. Stand in a semi-squat position on a non moving floor for 60 seconds. Consider your EE and PE. Rest for 5 mins. 2. Stand in a semi-squat position on top of your washing machine while it is in the spin cycle (vibrating)for 60 seconds. Consider the EE and PE required to remain in position for the 60 seconds. It's not Rocket Science to understand that EE and PE is higher when the ground/platform is moving. (and yes, obviously benefits of this are debatable)
Concerning Success Stories: Isn't that what happens everyday. Someone tells a neighbor a success story and the neighbor if needing that same result, tries the same method or at very least shares the joy. Human Life is all about community and stories. I'd rather try out something (in this case Whole Body Vibration Training especially as all brands of studio that I know of give the first session free)to see is it works for me, even paying a small amount of $'s over a trial period, than just mindlessly believe that it wont work no matter how many people's "rumor and gossip" says it does, especially, as you have pointed out so often, some of the studies lack control groups.
There are many people here who are living proof that WBV training (for fitness) and WBV therapy (for rehab and people with some medical conditions) works. A Body Composition Analyzer measures Percent Body Fat, Visceral Fat Mass, Waist-Hip Ration, BMI, Circumference of limbs etc and changes over time are evident. You will reply that the people are using some other method of "change" but for most this isn't so. All they've changed is to add WBV to their fitness program. For those needing weight reduction they do add some cardio and some diet controls. This has got to be good - in fact it can be Life Saving!
16 - Di Heap
In the article you say "what should be obvious to everyone " if you aren’t moving, you aren’t exercising". Your comments are about vibrating dumbells but no matter that, Yes, I agree. Have you seen a WBV platform? It moves! The person standing (in position) on it is definitely moving! Also there's no getting away from the working pain of exercise.
When on the machine my body is moving but I am not actively moving it. My body hurts - I feel some pain/effort in the targeted muscle group. I have measured gains (on body analyzer). I also have gains in learnt ability especially in body core stability and in arm (pull-ups) positions. Both of these named gains just might have also occurred without vibration - to what degree I don't know so, again you can claim rumour and gossip but for me, It works! I find it much harder to do a pull-up position while gripping vibrating handlebars (difficult to explain without a pic) on a machine than without the vibration.. the result difference, who knows? It works for me and at very low cost, way less than a conventional gym.
In my opinion WBV platforms are a valid way of fitness training and therapy use. You can write against it but unless you've taught your students never to question, you just might get them curious enough to "give it a go!"
17 - Lloyd Shaw
Oh sorry , I get it now , only your experiences are real and worth repeating , everybody elses are fake ( rumor and gossip ).
Sounds fair to me.
18 - Lloyd Shaw
These are all direct quotes from Sals blogs..
"and the muscle groups further away from the vibration get less of a vibration effect. So how can this machine help the upper body?"
I can gain from this Sal does not do bench press because his hands are too far away from his chest ? He simply rests the weight on his chest and does some kind of flexing movement ? Cool.
Refering to Vibration Training pads...
"this is nothing more than a bigger version of the electronic stim pads"
He got Vibration mixed up with Electric shocks ?
That is basic science , the kind of thing I learnt by the time I was 8 , who knows Sal , maybe you were sick that day ?
If you want to keep any credibility you will explain the massive holes in these comments. So people can at least trust some conclusions you come to.
Or you could just ignore these mistakes like the marketers you love so much.
19 - sal m
keep commenting because the more you write, the more that you reveal how little you know. it's no wonder you've wasted your time trying to develop a product based on such an incredibly flawed premise such as WBV.
and don't bother discussing these recent studies that clearly show how ineffective and inefficient WBV is.
look on the bright side, at least you aren't involved with selling the $15k scam known as the ROM machine, although i'm sure with your background in WBV you'd be able to adapt your approach. they misuse and mistate research in order to sell their product as well.
20 - Susan
I was told at a vibra train studio that you could burn a 1,000 calories in one workout. Sounds like a bit of a stretch to me. Is there any research to show it works on obesity?
21 - Wayne Campbell
Sal,
Lloyd Shaw would know far more about WBV and the effects on the human body because of his involvment in it than yourself.
Your statement:
"keep commenting because the more you write, the more that you reveal how little you know."
is beyond belief from someone who is commenting on something he has not even tried.
22 - Lloyd Shaw
To put it bluntly about the research..
Most has not taken place or has been crap due to the following reasons.
(1) Past tests have had little thought put into them with most researchers clearly not knowing what to do with the machines or test subjects. Risky behaviour being the norm. Eg.. jumping up and down on a unit , full range of motion being allowed , carrying weights etc.
(2) Marketers or the manufacturor themselves supplying fake specs , couple that with the researchers forgetting to get the units tested by an engineer. Means even minimal positives in tests cant be repeated.
This has just been admitted by a researcher on vibrationtraining.net but they are going to release the study anyway.
(3) Cant get anyone interested in weight loss trails due to (now I am guessing here) lack of personal interest in or belief in fighting obesity using anaerobic activity.
Result...
I dont trusts the people who should be proving me right or wrong to put in the required effort. My theories remain theories.
Except for those who can get off their backside to try it though.
23 - Mike Hair
If the academic researchers had half an idea of what results Lloyd Shaw has attained with the clients that go to him, "some of which have never been charged a cent" they would stop wasting money on research that has already been done and spend it on a ticket to Auckland! I'm not saying that research is not good or that Lloyd has the answer to everything, but from what I have seen Lloyd is a good 5 years ahead of anyone else in this industry "Don't Believe Me?" Time has a way of exposing the truth, as we have just found out with powerplate NZ.
Honestly guys the best $ i ever spent was buying a plane ticket to Auckland to see for myself what Lloyd was about.
It almost frustrates me to the point of swearing when some of you so called academics run Lloyd down for what he is doing to fight obesity and desease.
Alot of people accuse Lloyd of promoting WBV for financial gain, where as I wonder how many of you would cut and run after being offered over 1 billion dollars to set up a WBV factory by a very large well known company? One thing I know is Lloyd turned it down flat!!!
You may want to think again before you accuse Lloyd of wrong motivation. :)
24 - Lloyd Shaw
To be academic Mike it was only a % of $1.2B , not the whole lot.
25 - Lloyd Shaw
Sal your comment...
"your time trying to develop a product"
As though its a negative is typical of someone who is limited to using other peoples ideas to earn a living. But I suppose you do only claim to be a teacher not an inventer.
Still waiting for your answer regarding your basic science skills.