Charlie Conroy co-authored the new report with van Dokkum. Conroy said that earlier scientists assumed that galaxies had similar content and were thought to be much like our own. That thinking turned out to be inaccurate. In his words, co-author Conroy says: “We usually assume other galaxies look like our own. But this [these new findings] suggests other conditions are possible in other galaxies… More stars also mean more planets – raising the odds that we are not alone in the universe.”
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - et
I am a professional astronomer, and I'd like to point out one factual error in this article: this result has little to no effect on the discussion of Dark Matter. Nearly all of the non-dark matter in the galaxies in this study is in the form of hot gas, not stars. Hence, finding 3 times as many stars doesn't come close to explaining away the amount of mass necessary.
To sum up, this result has nothing to say one way or another as to whether or not dark matter exists. And nearly all astronomers now believe that the evidence is strongly in favor of it existing.
2 - John Lake
you may be correct. I only know what I read. The next few days will doubtless provide an answer.
3 - peter petterson
Interesting article, John. Theories ideas, and truths continue to change.
peter
4 - John Lake
Yesterday the Universe had edges; today it may go on forever. Yesterday, the speed of light was an absolute limit; today there have been exceptions. Not so long ago the 'big bang’ was the beginning, forever; now the 'big bang’ might be the most recent in a series of 'big bangs.’
So; I have reported that the matter of dark matter may be resolved. Knowing scientists as I do, and they are prone to dwell on the incomprehensible, it may be a while before they declare the matter of the matter resolved.
Here is an interesting quote, from Technology News “The findings, published in the journal Nature, also suggest there is far less dark matter in these galaxies than had been proposed - something that may be good as astronomers understand stars far better than they do dark matter. ‘What we already knew was that these galaxies had a lot of unseen matter at their centres,’ van Dokkum said in a telephone interview. ‘What we didn't know was whether the matter was dark, this mysterious matter - we don't know much about, or whether it was in the form of stellar bodies.’"
5 - Shawn
So in fact little has changed, other than maybe the chances of finding ET are a bit better. What do the xenobiologists have to say about the possibility of finding advanced life in the vicinity of such low mass bodies?
I think it's important to realize that "truth" doesn't change. We only discover truth very slowly. Let's hope we have a few hundred more years to figure out some more of it.
-SHAWN-
6 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
Nice Article, John. I appreciate your contributions to this section.
@5,
Well, if you've read the recent findings from NASA [see: Arsenic Eating Microbes] then the alien life forms might just be different than we have conjured up all these years with our imaginations & Sci-Fi movies.
7 - John Lake
I was pleased this morning to see that when googling NEWS, Red Dwarfs, or anything about the new discovery, my article here was near the top of the page!
8 - Shawn
Definitely Brian. I was thinking along the lines of complex proteins as a win for systems built around low mass radiators. Still - local conditions can produce surprising results. As long as the chemistry can cook, amazing things can happen.
9 - Kev
John Lake, simply because there is evidence that less dark matter is necessary does not mean there is no longer any evidence for dark matter. Your summary of the article and the scientific status of dark matter is completely incorrect. The dwarf star result does not, whatsoever, make dark matter a "myth". You should correct this blog post.
10 - John Lake
My suspicion is that over time, and it may take several months, the scientific community will accept the evidence that dark matter was not the source of the manifestations they observed. Please see the comment #4 above.
It may be that there is dark matter, not necessarily in "outer space", possibly inside stars, but significantly less than previously believed.
11 - Dean Stephens
OK, how exactly is dark matter a myth. You make the claim in your title and thesis, but then go into talking about stars. Where's the evidence backing up your assumption that dark matter is a myth.
And another thing, I hate that word myth. Uneducated teabaggers use that word if something is antithetical to the bible. "Global Warming is a myth", "evolotion is a myth", "the big bang is a myth" and now apparently dark matter is a myth as well. I hope your not one of those dummy conservatives MR. Lake.
12 - John Lake
I believe that the coming months will see scientists, astronomers, and physicists concluding that "dark matter" was a theory proven wrong. Religion which often does more harm than good has nothing to do with it.
13 - Will Markey
Astronomers make the comparison: "The stars in galaxies should behave like the planets in the solar system." Turn it around. According to the theory, dark matter is everywhere and in everything. Moreover, so far as we can observe, the phenomenon governing the behavior of galaxies is a scaled up manifestation of the same phenomenon governing the behavior of our solar system. So why does Neptune move so slowly? Why doesn't our solar system seem to obey these principles that we have postulated effect the entire universe? I'm not saying dark matter doesn't exist, God knows the movement of distant galaxies doesn't make sense according to the current model. It just seems to me we should take a better look around our own house before we make assumptions concerning objects millions of light years away.
14 - Boeke
Good article. Thanks for posting it, John.
15 - Will Markey
To go a little further, and to address your article more directly John; NASA recently observed two clusters of galaxies colliding with one another. They were able to tell, using gravitational lensing, a rough idea of the distribution of mass in and around this gigantic event. The results they got seems to point to most of the matter being OUTSIDE either galaxy. That is extremely hard to explain without some kind of other matter present; or that something extremely funny is going on otherwise.
To return to my post for a moment; we saw a discrepency in how stars in galaxies behave relative to planets in our solar system. Obviously the stars are much more massive in their gravitational role, so to expect behavior that is to an exact scale doesn't make sense. That said, given how much dark matter there apparently is in the universe, including both our back and front yards, shouldn't Neptune move faster? Put another way; why does our solar system move as though it never heard of dark matter?
16 - John Lake
As I recall Neptune spins in the opposite direction of other planets, possibly because of some past collision.
17 - John Lake
I’m quite certain that it has occurred to you that, in as there are more red dwarf stars as we distance ourselves from the point of the theorized Big Bang it is a reasonable expectation that gravitational influence in our galaxy from these red dwarves, or “dark matter” would be less extensive than in galaxies farther removed.
18 - John Lake
Neptune does have an unusual rotation, but that rotation is not the opposite of the other planets in our solar system.
19 - Will Markey
I didn't mean just Neptune. I meant all the bodies in the solar system. Why don't they seem to be affected at all by this substance which supposedly has such dramatic influence on the galactic scale?
20 - John Lake
The original article from which I derived much of the information in my article is "no longer available". Since I wrote the article back towards the beginning of December, some of the information has escaped from my mind like so many gamma rays running from a boggling black hole. I apologize for not having the time, with so much going on in the world; with America about to default on loans, with the Republicans trying to un-pass healthcare, … for not having the time to investigate the odd tilt, and the various odd aspects of Neptune’s rotation. While most planets have two poles, Neptune has four. Had I but space and time, I’m certain I could grasp that idea. Further, rather than measuring spin at the internal core, astronomers measure from a point in the planet's thick atmosphere, so that at the one latitude, the speed of rotation differs from the rotation speed at another point.
Red Dwarf stars are common in older elliptical galaxies; we have had difficulty "seeing" them, but now with new telescopes, analyzing a wide range of light and wave emissions, we can reach new and amazing conclusions. Red dwarves (?) are dying stars, already beyond the sweeping nova, and don’t emit a lot of light.
With the world economy in such dire straits, we sadly may have to limit some of our space exploration. It doesn't appear to be particularly profitable. We still need to defend ourselves from rogue asteroids, and someone should investigate the awful amount of money being spent in Switzerland.
21 - James Ph. Kotsybar
DARK MATTER
-- James Ph. Kotsybar
The universe is mostly abnormal,
if we accept that physicists aren’t wrong
and Newton’s gravity’s uniformal,
otherwise galaxies couldn’t last long.
They’d spin themselves apart, unless, unseen,
missing mass resolves the disparity.
Dark Matter is needed to intervene.
Though not found, it can’t be a rarity.
“Shining stars are like icebergs,” they patter,
“if the mathematics are to be served.
There’s as much as five times normal matter
needed to resolve dynamics observed.”
Though they’ll claim science is observation,
that can tweak, if it fits the equation.
22 - John Lake
If
If the world should stop revolving, spinning,
Slowly start to die,
I'd spend the end with you. And,
When the world was through,
As one by one the stars
Would all go out, Then you
And I
Would simply
Fly
Away.
23 - John Lake
The clue is in the five times.
No dark matter. Red Dwarfs.
JL
24 - Evil Teyen
If this is so then how come our own galaxy, devoid according to the article of all these extra red dwarves, still has an anomalously flat rotation curve? Thanks for the article all the same- fascinated to read about increased potential for life out there. Maybe there exists a world out there where nobody even thought of Republicans..
25 - John Lake
Scientist have been going to length to prove "Dark Matter."
Mass within galaxies increases as the radius extends outward. An unexpected curve or plotting as the radius extends may be explained by Dark Matter, but there is speculation that nearly invisible gasses, containing metal, are at the source of the cryptic issue.