Elvis Costello has become a tool of the record industry
Elvis Costello may be the greatest songwriter working today. He put out one of the best albums of his long career just a few months ago, The Delivery Man.…
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Mark Saleski
ok, eric olsen purchases a copy of Joe Jackson's "Blaze of Glory" (ok, he can't actually do this, because it's out of print...but whatever).
then, i go over to eric & dawn's place and listen to the cd with them.
i leave.
i come back tomorrow and do the same.
i've listened to it twice without paying.
how is that different from somebody ripping their copy of the cd and me listening to it in the digital domain?
(and for the record, i don't really download anything because i'm not a computer person)
27 - ClubhouseCancer
TJ, I am hip to your arguments.
And this hurts me to say, but if you don't like the product (it won't do what you want it to do, ie download on your ipod), then don't buy it.
"My red shirt, it turns out, doesn't work with my green pants, so I stole one that does."
28 - ClubhouseCancer
M, it's different because of the law. Listening over at Eric's (He drinks that cheap shit, right, Old Milwaukee? And can I get a lousy bowl of chips over here?) is a "fair use" of the product, covered in the tacit agreement he bought into when he bought the disk.
Still, I agree that Eric has no earthly idea what he's doing with that graphic equalizer, and his couch has uncomfortable ass-marks.
29 - Eric Olsen
CC, you have to admit that this issue exists on a continuum that is greatly confused by the onmi-reach of the Internet. You are allowed to "share" something you own with a friend and you are allowed to make a copy for your own use, ie, format shifting. So you should be able to download a digital copy of a song you won on vinyl, right? The problem is the file sharing services stretch this all out of proportion and end up violating AT LEAST the intent of "fair use," which are the legit exceptions to copyright restrictions
30 - Mark Saleski
ah ya, fair use.
still & all, i did get to listen to the thing several times without paying. that was my point.
(i did 'pay' though, as i made a comment about the couch and dawn told me to get the fuck out.)
31 - ClubhouseCancer
I think the "copyright violation" bit is semantics. The record cos. are suing people for taking something that doesn't belong to them without paying. They can call it whatever they want.
OJ had to pay the Browns a civil penalty, because he was responsible for the deaths of those people, but they didn't call it murder, even thought we know it was.
32 - Mark Saleski
it's also interesting that you can violate the law by downloading something that's out of print (which is why i used Blaze of Glory as an example).
33 - Eric Olsen
however, LEGALLY, that is a very important distinction: for the civil he is out $$, for the criminal he'd be on death row
34 - Tom Johnson
And this hurts me to say, but if you don't like the product (it won't do what you want it to do, ie download on your ipod), then don't buy it.
How about the fact that nowhere on the outside of the jewelcase does it mention that the disc is copy-protected? Had there been a warning about it's copy-protected status, I would never have bought it. So who's screwed who here again?
"My red shirt, it turns out, doesn't work with my green pants, so I stole one that does."
Nope. I still have a right to my music in a different format - that's fair-use under US law, regardless of where I bought the product from. And your analogy is wrong. What you're really saying is really that I don't have the right to use my shirt as both a shirt and as a jacket. If I wear my red shirt as a shirt, I'm fine. If I wear it over another shirt as a jacket-of-sorts, I'm breaking the law. Sounds ridiculous, no?
35 - Eric Olsen
interesting analogy Tom, I like it
36 - SFC SKI
Futhermore, "if you don't like the product (it won't do what you want it to do, ie download on your ipod), then don't buy it.
How about the fact that nowhere on the outside of the jewelcase does it mention that the disc is copy-protected? Had there been a warning about it's copy-protected status, I would never have bought it. So who's screwed who here again?" I have refrained from buying several CD's because of limited use or faulty copy protection. The industry's loss, not mine. The second part, not being able to use your purchase as you see fit.
37 - ClubhouseCancer
TJ,
It doesn't matter WHY you're unhappy with your CD/shirt.
The law is clear about the use of the shirt. Now you say you didn't know about the "jacket law," even though that law is on the books. You may think it's a stupid law. You may regret that you bought the shirt in light of this stupid "jacket law." But you may not go to the Gap and steal a new shirt with buttons that make it legal to use as a jacket.
And I agree that you're screwed with that European copy. Your recourse? Return it.
Or vow never to buy another record from that company.
But you can't steal another one you like better.
Note that I'm not saying things aren't screwed up or that you;re not stuck with some worthless product. But that doesn't justify stealing.
38 - Eric Olsen
you mean "copyright violation"
39 - Mark Saleski
the other interesting thing in all of this is that there have been plenty of studies that have shown that 'illegal' downloading has resulted in increased sales of cds.
this apparently makes no difference to the big lables, who will pour untold millions of dollars into fighting a losing battle.
40 - Bryan McKay
"But you can't steal another one you like better."
In TJ's case though, he's not stealing one he likes better. If he had bought the original album and then chose to download the EP from a P2P network, that would have been stealing, as he did not "own" the original EP tracks. Since he bought the cd, however, he owns the rights to use those songs for his personal use. Downloading the songs which he already has the right to own is not stealing. Putting songs from a cd you've purchased onto your computer is well within your legal limits, so long as you don't share them with anyone else.
I guess my point is that you're basically arguing that if you and I owned the same cd and we accidentally switched discs, we'd be stealing from each other. We both own the rights to use that material for personal use regardless of the media involved.
41 - ClubhouseCancer
Eric, I'm not in law enforcement, so call it what it is to me. Stealing. Just like I call OJ a murderer, even though the law says he's not.
42 - ClubhouseCancer
"Downloading the songs which he already has the right to own is not stealing."
You may be right in this very specific, isolated case. But is this really the situation that's costing record companies and artists money?
Fact is, millions of people steal music off the 'Net who have never bought these tracks. That's where the real problem is, of course.
43 - ClubhouseCancer
And if we switch discs, we're legal. You can give the CD away, you just can't sell it or reproduce it. I couldn't download it to my computer and give it to you, but I can give you the tangible product.
44 - ClubhouseCancer
That is, I can;t give you the downloaded (reproduced) tracks, but I can give you the CD.
45 - bhw
Yes, CC, it's the distribution of thousands upon thousands of free copies that are the issue. When we buy a music CD, the copyright owner has established a license for its use, which includes personal use. That means you can have a party with as many guests as you like and play the music all night. Or you can rip your own MP3s or even make a copy on CD for your car. But it doesn't usually contain a license to distribute it freely to thousands of strangers.
Copyright law is in fact law. It's against the law to ignore the copyright holder's license agreement simply because you don't like the terms.
46 - bhw
I keep forgetting to add, though, that the P2P networks shouldn't be held responsible for the way their customers use the software. The technology should be left alone and the people who use it illegally should be sought. Regulating the technology is a bad, bad idea.
47 - Al Barger
"It's the law" does not mean that it is legitimate nor that I have any moral obligation to follow it. The "established license" that BHW speaks of simply means that the industry has bought off enough congressmen and judges to enforce their edicts at gunpoint.
On the other hand, she does get to a reasonable point in comment #46. Even if you believe in the current bogus copyright laws, it's not reasonable or constitutional to demand that private citizens act as cops to enforce it.
48 - bhw
"It's the law" does not mean that it is legitimate nor that I have any moral obligation to follow it.
Too bad you don't feel this way about all illegitimate laws, just the ones that affect your music collection.
49 - Al Barger
No, I feel the same way about all arbitrary and illegitimate laws. Why would you think otherwise?
50 - Jim Carruthers
What is being ignored (and if you have watched a couple of episodes of "Star Trek") -- if you wear a red shirt, you will wind up dead!
The solution for the record industry is simple: if you don't want your "product" copied, don't record it, or release it into the public. The record industry have made business failure their operating model. And that train has derailed. Start learning how to sell what you have to customers. Or eat shit and die.
Sadly, they seem to like being coprophages.
And Elvis Costello has sold out since he signed with Universal and they let him put out every album on a different fake label. He's just turned into a silly dilettante.
51 - Al Barger
I must defend Elvis against charges of being a "dilettante." He's a creative artist trying to expand his palette. He's not just playing around, but clearly doing the work study the forms and learn the technical skills to do what he's doing.
Plus, The Delivery Man may be the best album he's put out in 20 years.
52 - Mark Saleski
gees, i don't know about that al.
i mean, i thought Spike was great.
i foget it...i just did the math. Spike came out in 1989. not quite 20 years.
53 - wally bangs
Preach it Jim!! My wife and I have running joke that whenever we see Metallica on TV or hear them on the radio, we turn the dial. We wouldn't want Lars Ulrich mad, even if it is fair use. The episode of South Park dealing with this issue sums it up for me when the music industry dude explains to Stan and Kyle that Lars won't be able to get a bigger swimming pool (or something like that). I don't think file sharing has ever hurt the career of musicians that aren't mega stars.
54 - Al Barger
Mark, Spike's pretty highly rated. Twenty years would also take in King of America. Both of those would be strong contenders for top Elvis.
By the way, CD sales were UP last year, which tends to discredit the theory that downloading is hurting the industry's bottom line- not that I would necessarily care if it DID.
55 - Tom Johnson
Gettin' off the subject and following the lead of Mark . . . I think maybe I fall into a "special" category of Costello fan: I really much prefer his later material to his earlier. I find myself listening to material from King of America til now a lot more than prior to that. Were I forced, I could probably survive on KoA, Blood & Chocolate, Brutal Youth, All This Useless Beauty, and The Delivery Man. Sure, I'd miss the rest, but those five albums are damn near perfect through-and-through, both musically and lyrically. But maybe I'm a freak.
56 - Mark Saleski
i tend to think of the early vs. late as completely different collections of music.
Spike and Imperial Bedroom still slay me.
57 - Jim Carruthers
I'd rate "The Delivery Man" higher, if I hadn't already heard the song "The Judgment" done by Solomon Burke. And it was clear, this is a good collection of songs from EC, but only a demo disc.
He's a great songwriter, but not that great a performer, and his flitting around from style to style as a performer is a classic definition of dilettante.
58 - Mark Saleski
doesn't that make Bowie a dilettante?
59 - Jim Carruthers
Mark, yes. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
And I've seen Tin Machine in concert.
60 - Mark Saleski
dat's ok...i own a Tin Machine cd (uh, the live one, i think)
61 - Dave Nalle
Spike and Imperial Bedroom and King of America aren't even early Elvis at all. They're from a middle period where he was starting to experiment but had not yet gone completely crappy.
There are basically four Elvis periods
When Elvis was Elvis
-My Aim is True
-This Year's Model
-Armed Forces
-Get Happy
Elvis on Cruise Control
-Trust
-Almost Blue
-Imperial Bedroom
-Punch the Clock
-Goodbye Cruel World
-Blood and Chocolate
-Spike
-Mighty Like a Rose
Elvis Goes Crappily Experimental
-The Juliet Letters
-Brutal Youth
-Kojak Variety
-Deep Dead Blue
-All This Useless Beauty
-Painted from Memory
-For the Stars
Elvis Makes a Feeble Comeback
-When I Was Cruel
-The Delivery Man
Unless the next release is good, the feeble comeback might fall back into the crappy experimental category.
Dave
62 - bmarkey
Dave, your catagories are just about right, although I'd argue for a separate one for Imperial Bedroom. It is the shaft of gold that shines out when all around it is darkness. Or something like that.
63 - Aaman
DRM is as bad as RIAA thugs, per some views. Scott Moschella is deliberately breaking Apple DRM on a FREE song he downloaded and giving it away - via boingboing.
The Hymn project provides the tools for this act of 'vandalism'
64 - Caryn Rose
I'm not even getting into this debate, but I will admit being let down with the recent ticket price increase. Last summer, it was $45, and he had a whole tirade on his web site about those artists who charged $75-85. Now, what will tickets cost me? $75-85. I don't fault the man for wanting to make a living off his music, and when you work at the same job for 25 years, you certainly want a raise from time to time, but man, I can get nine members of the E Street Band for $75, too.
65 - SFC SKI
I have to disagree with your placement of "Trust". (misplaced trust? hmmm) I think it is the last of EC's "good" period, a departure from all that came before, but still a filler-free album. "Trust" often spends weeks at a time in my cassette player going to and from work. It is one of the few CD's I am willing to shell $$$ for in order to build up my EC collection.
66 - bhw
but man, I can get nine members of the E Street Band for $75, too.
You can get them for far less, my friend. You're paying for Bruuuuuuce. The E Streeters are the gift with purchase.
67 - Rodney Welch
Actually, the price goes down when it's just Bruce, as it will be with his upcoming acoustic CD and tour.
68 - Distorted Angel
I'm not even getting into this debate, but I will admit being let down with the recent ticket price increase.
The prices at the Beacon Theater seem to be the highest of any of the venues he's playing this time around - there's a huge amount of variability.
69 - todd yarling
Elvis used to be a programmer, If I remember the legend right, for some reason I think Apple UK. so he should doubly know better, since he is a smart guy regardless
The Riaa talking about "artist's rights" is kinda like an Antebellum Plantation owner couching his Pro-slavery rhetoric in terms of how it will hurt the "Poor Slaves" to set them free.
You have to understand, all the people on the list supporting the RIAA, they are the "house negroes" who have done well by their Master and are quick to defend him and their own position.
But for every musician who seemingly made out OK thru their involvement with the RIAA,there are ten's of thousands who were screwed.
To break out of the slave analogy loop, the top of the pryramid of musical success needs to flatten out a lot, so instead of a few people hitting it big big big, we have alot of people acheiving moderate success.
This is a more sustainable model than the present system, which is unsatisfying to anyone who likes "real music" whatever that is
70 - Al Barger
Elvis should know better than this. However, it does go with a life long trait of paranoia- which has sometimes been harnessed to good artistic ends. I can well imagine this millionaire setting up nights worrying about being ripped off by the very fans who are in fact paying his bills.
71 - Mark Saleski
yea...but then ms. krall sez "honey, what's the matter?"
...and all is well.
72 - Al Barger
You'd think that, wouldn't you? But then, she's also a signatory to this same amicus brief.
73 - todd yarling
Maybe Elvis should either tour more or try putting out better albums
Delivey Man was OK but not so great and certainly didn't have anything that would be palatable on today's charts
perhaps he needs to double up with snoop or m&m or even avril
74 - Al Barger
While doubling up with Avril sounds like a good idea, I doubt that specifically singing with her would accomplish anything.
Elvis has never, however, had much in the way of pop radio hit singles, just a couple of minor ones.
Screw today's charts though, The Delivery Man will still be selling when no one remembers who a Snoop Dogg ever was.
Also, he does tour regularly, and kicks ass across the globe.
But none of that is really relevant to the issue at hand. Elvis sells a decent number of records, just not crazy Eminem numbers.
Moreover, I'd bet he makes a million dollars a year- and good for him. He's got a catalog that's going to keep selling. He's making new albums, and probably getting top dollar as a prestige act for the label. Plus he probably makes pretty good money touring. On top of which he has his publishing.
No, he just can't be happy that he's doing well. He's got to find things to be mad about.
75 - Mark Saleski
hmmm....maybe he's not gettin' any.
no wait, you said they both signed.
ah, forget it.