So what did BG do next? He decided to chair a weekly meeting every Friday at another group. One day, en route to the meeting, he said "screw it," turned around, and took the subway straight to the pot spot, the bar, and the liquor store. We "went out" for about 10 weeks, but Bowleg Guy was still in absolute agony from the hangovers. Aye, there's the rub.
Time will tell, but I think we may be able to make it without AA after all. BG now goes on and off the wagon, but he's slowed down quite a bit. Thing is, it IS true what they say about drinking being a form of "self-medicating." BG is a very anxious and uptight guy, and often the only way he seems to be able to relax a bit is after a few pops.
Anyway, from what I've heard, the success rate for AAs is not too impressive -and may actually be lower than the rate for those who just go it alone after getting "sick and tired of being sick and tired."
4. AND BY THE WAY, CO-AA FOUNDER BILL W. WAS NO SAINT.
After we quit, I started looking up alternative sobriety webpages. I came upon a few rabidly anti-AA sites, where I learned the dirt about AA's founding co-father, Bill W. See, for example, the More Revealed website.
Now, some of the anti-AA people are more nutty than the hard line "AA Nazis." But it sure is entertaining to read all those AA horror stories they have on this site, even if just for a goof.
And finally, let me just add that there are good people in AA, and it works beautifully for some. But despite having "no dues or fees" (other than voluntary contributions) I maintain that AA is a big business and provides a lot of jobs and incentives for insurance companies, employers, prisons, and other insitutions under the thrall of the AA "my way or the highway" mentality.
So — for better or worse — it's no more AA for me and mine. I think I'll drink to that.
Originally posted on Shithouse rat.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Roller
Time for some new material.
Your posts here are almost all reprints from your personal blog.
Are you going to write anything original here?
2 - Elvira Black
Roller:
Au contraire....
If you check my author archive, you will note that I have composed six new pieces for BlogCritics in the short time I have joined (January 6th, to be exact). They are:
Uh oh--Brain Itch! (this was composed on my blog about a day before I expanded on and posted it on BC, so yes, it counts.)
Pro-Life or Anti Sex? (quite a popular one, that)
Soundtrack Review: Goodfellas....
Annoyed? Don't EVEN get me started! (Kinda relevant here, actually...)
Website Review--Thank you, Mr. Skin!
Apocalypse Now?
I've got plenty more where that came from--I've been at this a long, long time--long before I started my personal blog.
Thank you, however, for your concern...
3 - Elvira Black
Roller:
PS: where's your URL? Where's your blog? Where's your posts? Where's your comments to my posts here or on my blog, on old posts or new?
Everyone's a critic (sigh)...or is it troll?
4 - Sister Ray
Here's another site that dissents from AA.
5 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Elvira,
It strikes me that your boyfriend is a vulnerable type who gets pushed around easily because that is what you seem to have described above.
I cannot criticize what you write - I never went to an AA meeting. But for some time, I was involved in a "support group" of a different type. At meetings, I would hear all sorts of distancing remarks that hid more than they revealed - and they pissed me off. Now, reading this, I think I understand why I was hearing them.
I hope your boyfriend was not told "thirty days or thirty meetings" - or something of the sort - by a judge. And I hope that things work out a bit better for him...
6 - Elvira Black
Sister Ray:
Oh yeah! I happened upon the Orange Papers site even before the More Revealed one. One thing that really stuck with me is that I think his website and/or e-mail account got banned at some point without warning. Hmmm....interesting....
7 - elvira Black
Ruvy:
I just went back in before I saw the last two comments and re-edited to provide a little more background on BG--ie. he was never in jail, never stole to support his substance abuse, worked hard, etc. But you are right in that he does tend to want to "please" everyone, and be "nice" to all. This may in part be a by-product of his upbringing, and may also be one of the reasons that drinking does bring him some measure of relief. He went to AA of his own accord, in the hopes that it would help him quit once and for all.
Most of the time, I imagine any court mandated meetings aren't gonna do the trick. You have to really be motivated to quit, and forcing someone to go isn't usually the way to do it. But it truly seems to be the only solution to drinking and substance abuse accepted in the US right now. I may say more about this later, but thanks for the comment.
8 - Mary K. Williams
Wow Elvira - this was intense!
I know that AA has worked well for many, and I know that OA (Overeaters Anonymous) works as well, but very strict. I personally could never do the OA thing. Though the idea of a 'sponsor' to help is cool. Sometimes though, a sponsor seems more like a probation officer, rather than a support buddy.
I wish BG much, much luck in his efforts to find balance.
9 - Victor Lana
Elvira, my only experience with AA was indirectly. I was in a theater group that used one half of the church basement, and every Wednesday night the AA people came in and used the other half.
On other nights this was a great place to aspire to be an actor, but on those AA nights there was quite a commotion. The worst part was the smell of smoke and bad coffee (those were days when people still smoked inside buildings). Also, the bathroom was as bad as in any bar I had ever been in (vomit, urine all over the floors, etc.) a real mess.
All I know is that we used to leave there on Wednesday nights, head straight to the bar, and order shots and beers, happily not being in that crowd we left behind.
Cheers on a great post!
PS: I see nothing wrong with reprinting from one's blog if the post is written well. Sometimes something one wrote a year ago (but was only posted on one's own blog) suddenly becomes pertinent. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.
10 - -E
I think a lot of if AA will help depends on who you are and what you need to help. There are certainly some areas where their AA groups are a complete joke. There are others where I feel they are a group of people who truly want to help each other become what they see as better people. I can find no fault in that. So AA is creepy and wont work for some, but for others it truly can. As the daughter of an alcoholic/addict I can simply applaud anyone who gets help--be it through AA or any other method. If it works for them, I certainly won't knock it.
11 - Elvira Black
Re: my Comment #2 (in reponse to comment number #1):
Oh yeah, I forgot to include My Blogging Doppelganger in the list of my new "BC-exclusive" posts. That makes seven out of 15, or almost 50 percent.
You, on the other hand, Roller, apparently have 50 percent of zero, which comes to...lessee.....zero?
Thank you.
12 - Elvira Black
Mary, Victor, -E:
Many thanks for your comments--I'll return to respond shortly....
13 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I wanted to add (for the sake of Roller - wherever he is rolling around) that I think the idea at Blog Critics is to post from the our weblogs - except when there is news. So it should be no surprise to anyone going there that Shithouse Rat holds a lot of the same pieces that Elvira has posted here.
Now, I'll own up and tell you all that I only started a weblog in order to post pieces here. Most of my pieces are sitting in my computer and my e-mails. A few have managed to migrate to my own weblog.
14 - John Spivey
I think the thing that makes AA work (when it does) is the sense of community. Suffering alone is a terrible thing and trying to change all alone is extremely difficult. It's also tough when all of the need for support and encouragement falls on the shoulders of the partner. AAers may stop drinking, but many, in my experience, don't really try to change their personality profile and go for something deeper. FYI, my father was a drunk. He died that way.
15 - Elvira Black
Mary K:
Thanks! I imagine that all the twelve step spinoffs are similar (OA, AA, NA, etc), but what's also interesting are the Al-Alon groups. I sometimes wonder why the loved ones of alcholics would have to go through the same "initiation" as the alcoholic would; making amends; doing moral inventory, etc. In addition, the loved one is included in the "disease" model, deemed to be "codependent" and enabling.
Is this blaming the victim? Yes, I know codependency can be a factor in the perpetuation of alcoholism, but still...
One of the problems I have with 12 step groups is that I've never been a "joiner." Since fellowship is based so heavily on steps, rules, and regs--plus a Higher Power to boot--I think you've got a recipe for "creative" interpretations that can be very manipulative. In other words, there are a lot of assholes who will try to tell you you're doing your program wrong, and attempt to "correct" you.
Your point about sponsors being iffy rings true. I never had a sponsor (since I wasn't a bona fide alkie) but I witnessed a lot of AAers who seemed to be totally "addicted" to speaking to their sponsor on a daily basis or more--as if they couldn't make a move without the sponsor's approval. The sponsor is just another drunk with more time than you, and though their experience may be valuable, they're only human, y'know? Sheesh...
16 - Dave Nalle
There's a reason why AA has only a 5% (being generous) success rate. All it does is substitute addiction to alcohol with addiction to god or to meetings or to codependency or to OCD-like compulsive behavior patterns. And that's if you're lucky. What really scares me is the guys/girls who go to AA to meet future love interests.
Dave
17 - Elvira Black
Victor:
Thanks! BG used to joke that going to an AA meeting could really make you want to go right out afterwards and head straight to a bar. All those war stories, going into detail about what you drank, how good it felt, etc. etc. Talk about triggers!
Yep, it must have felt so liberating to be able to go out and have a few after your theater group. Sadly, alcholics just don't have this option if they're going to stay sober. I've always felt so sorry for BG because of the hangovers he endures as the "price" of partying. But interestingly enough, he seems to have developed a more moderate habit, and of course still alternates sober periods with using periods.
As a matter of fact, there was one meeting we went to in Manhattan, and afterwards BG would go to the steam room he had joined nearby. I'd usually kill the time by having dinner, since BGs idea of fine dining is Wendy's. On occasion, I'd have a drink or two with dinner, and always wonder if I'd look up and see someone from the meeting I just went to looking over at me and shaking their head sadly...lol...
18 - Elvira Black
-E:
Yes, my intent is not to knock AA out of hand. I've seen for myself that it has worked beautifully for some as a lifetime solution to drinking miseries. When someone has been sober for 5, 10, 20, even 40 years via AA I guess they must be doing something right. Though BG often wondered why you'd still need to go to a meeting if you'd been sober 40 years--lol--but I can see why you would.
19 - Elvira Black
Ruvy et al:
I did check with the powers that be, and they also assured me that re-publishing or simultaneously posting your blog stuff here is a-ok. Thanks for reiterating that point!
20 - Elvira Black
John:
You bring up a valid point about AA giving members a sense of community. I found that to be the case to a large degree as well.
I should explain that I was a fairly heavy drinker for a time around 7 or 8 years ago, and have experienced symptoms of dependency at various times for pot, coke (ancient history) and ups. So I felt that I was "qualified" to be there, despite the (in my opinion) asinine "rule" in some AA groups against discussing substances other than alcohol, which they feel should be reserved for NA. Nonsense!
At BG's home group in the Bronx, although there were some wierd birds, I did start to feel a sense of community. At first I said nothing except to mutter: "just listening today." Eventually I would contribute a comment or two, and then more, but still never dreamed I'd be able to "qualify" because of my dread of public speaking.
But one day I sat down and thought over the way I'd been using substances on and off since adolescence and saw a history and pattern emerging. Shortly thereafter, I qualified at the Manhattan group, talking about alchool and the other substances I'd abused. Surprisingly, I felt no anxiety doing so at all. I guess I felt that I was part of a group of people who would not ridicule me even if I had flubbed it up.
But being in BG's Bronx home group and helping each week with the setup and cleanup and cakes for anniversaries and such did make me feel good, even if there were some sick individuals we had to deal with. So all in all, I'd say AA can be wonderful for some people, and certainly a way to feel less isolated and know that you are not alone in your struggle.
21 - Elvira Black
Dave:
The substition of one "addiction" for another is definitely true in some cases. I've witnessed people who just go to meetings all day long, or who say they "needed" a meeting like a crack addict needs the pipe.
As far as what they call the "13th step"--getting romantically involved with another AAer or anyone new before a year's sobriety--this was the case with the two ultra pervs we dealt with at BGs Bronx home group. They seemed to be addicted to kinky sex, which was fine, except that they apparently wanted to get BG and I involved, or at the very least tell us every lurid detail. This woman would literally grab me in a headlock and whisper in my ear about all the intimate activities she and Skank Boy had engaged in. I finally had to appeal to one of the old timers to intervene, and she backed off somewhat after that. But this couple managed to spoil every meeting they attended, and it was particularly rough on BG who was taking the whole endeavor super seriously. So there you have it!
22 - Margaret Romao Toigo
Ms. Black, nevermind those folks who criticize your re-posting articles from your own web here at BC as that is what practically every one else here does, too.
I do not know how popular your home site is and I do not think I have ever been there, anyway. Were it not for your re-posting your articles here, I would probably have never even heard of you or your work.
Consider the following, which was written by Eric Olsen, publisher of Blogcritics, in an article entitled Are You a Blogcritic?
None of us are required, or even expected, to create original articles for exclusive publication here, although I am sure that any such articles are greatly appreciated.
23 - Tim
Excellent! Thanks for this. I've also been completely disgusted by the maniacs, control freaks and narcissists who comprise most 12-step meetings. My first novel Half Empty deals with this a bit; I've got a short MP3 at www.undiepress.com that describes a typical NYC meeting experience (go to Podcasts then click the entry called "The Meeting"). Good stuff.
24 - Nancy
One problem/question I always had about AA is that they offer nothing except a religious solution. Not once while I was going w/a family member did I hear anyone mention the very basic biochemical FACT of addictive substances being based in brain production of THIQ (tetra-hydro-io-quinidine sp?) or other biochemical processes as reasons not to drink: i.e. your brain/body is never NOT going to manufacture this stuff when you drink/inhale/mainline/what-have-you, therefore you will never be able to drink/inhale/etc. They always piled on the metaphysical spiritual stuff, but left the hard-nails information out, and when I brought it up, I was regarded with horror, as if I'd proposed some kind of heresy. I should think anything that could shed light on the problem and possibly help give someone a means to get a grip on themselves would be of use, but not AA....
25 - Roller
My comment came out wrong.
I only meant that I have read all the stuff here, and I have read all the stuff on your personal blog.
I'm just eager for something new.