Today on Blogcritics
Home » Russian Aggression Against Gruzia and Lessons Unlearned by Would-Be American Allies

Russian Aggression Against Gruzia and Lessons Unlearned by Would-Be American Allies

Please Share...Tweet about this on Twitter0Share on Facebook0Share on Google+0Share on LinkedIn0Pin on Pinterest0Share on TumblrShare on StumbleUpon0Share on Reddit0Email this to someone

A number of months ago at Desicritics, the daughter site to Blogcritics Magazine, I wrote an analysis of why no country should trust the United States. It was to be a series, and I was going to use Israel as the example. But we have a far better example to see unfolding in front of us today — Gruzia, known in the west as Georgia.

Americans generally do not care about what is going on outside their borders; they can afford to involve their minds with such nonsense as American Idol and the like, or scream themselves hoarse over their favorite Olympians in China. Or they can retreat behind that ever familiar mantra, "That's politics, and I don't believe in politics". However, those of us who live outside of the United States cannot afford to ignore how the American regime routinely betrays nations that would be its allies.

Nevertheless, the evidence of American betrayal is at hand, and those who ignore this, as Americans have routinely ignored the base betrayals of their government for decades, do so at their own peril. As we say in Hebrew, damám 'al roshám – their blood is on their own heads.

So, let's have a brief recap of events. Before we do, though, let's make clear one single point. While the United States can be looked at as a provocateur here, the aggressive intent of Russia against Gruzia predates any involvement by the United States. Indeed, Russian aggression against Gruzia predates the independence of the United States altogether and is as old, perhaps, as the Romanov dynasty itself.

There are two provinces of Gruzia that are effectively breaking away from the central government in T'bilsi, and are doing so with the active backing of the successor state to the Soviet Union and Russian Empire, the Russian Federation. The dispute over these provinces extends at least 15 years, back to the early 1990's. There has been a long history of bullying of Gruzia by Russia, even when the less than sober Yeltzin was drinking his way through the Russian presidency and Russia was a weak state with no real leader. After having to deal with aggressive Russian moves against it in the 1700's, Gruzia was annexed to the Russian Empire nearly two hundred years ago, and suffered Russian rule until the breakup of the Russian Empire in 1917.

Ivan Simich, writing from Belgrade for Matangi Tonga On-line wrote an excellent summary of events that have lead up to today's situation. From his article:

We may recall the genesis of the current situation which has been precipitated by the 1918-1920 Georgian-Ossetian conflict. Later, in 1922 the South Ossetian Autonomous Oblast was created after Soviet occupation of Georgia. In the eighties, the conflict was followed by rising nationalism in the former Georgian Soviet Socialist Republic, the South Ossetian desire for greater autonomy, Ossetian demands for unification with Russia's North Ossetia, and persistent Ossetian declarations of independence.

According to Global Politician, the present crisis, simmering for years, was provoked in early May of this year, when long-standing tensions between Russia and Gruzia over the breakaway Abkhazia and South Ossetia regions in Gruzia flared dangerously as each country accused the other of provocative actions that might bring about war. Russia moved troops and armor into Abkhazia during the first week of May responding to a Gruzian military buildup along the unofficial border with the breakaway region of the Caucasus republic. Gruzia had warned of military action if Russian forces were to interfere. According to the article, written 14 May:

The Kremlin said the deployment was allowed under a 1994 cease-fire that stationed Russian troops in the region to prevent the kind of fighting that broke out between Georgia and “separatists” after the fall of the Soviet Union. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said any Georgian military action would lead to "retaliatory actions," but stressed at a meeting with European Union ministers that Russia "isn't planning to go to war."

That was then.

Over the last few days we saw an escalation of the situation, first as Russian provocations grew greater, then as the Gruzian army attacked, and finally Gruzia was driven back by invading Russian forces. Now, in spite of reports of a ceasefire, Russian forces appear intent on crippling Gruzia and ousting the present American-backed leader. According to Debkafiles, Russia is massing naval force opposite Gruzia’s third sensitive region, Ajaria, which controls the port city, Batumi.

Here we have to look at the role of Israel, as well as the supposed support of the United States.

In all of the reports on this conflict, Gruzia is referred to as a major American ally, a would-be member of NATO seeking the umbrella of protection of the West against the evil East whose clutches it attempts to escape. The present leader was backed by the United States. The present leader got the warm fuzzies, aid and succor from the United States and from its puppet régime in Israel. In the Gruzian cabinet is a Jewish fellow with an Israeli passport.

The United States is making an awful lot of noise about this invasion, as are the top officials in NATO.

But the bottom line is – will the United States actually do anything aside from make noise? Will this leader be allowed to fall? When one looks at recent American policy, the answers to these two questions are likely "no", and "yes", respectively.

First, before looking at why, let's look at the giveaway yelp of "uncle" from Madame Tzipora Livni, the pretty but evil and gutless foreign minister of the American puppet régime ruling out of Jerusalem, defiling the Holy City.

As pointed out elsewhere, Israel has had a special relationship with Gruzia, which banked on, among other things, a pipeline to carry oil across Azerbaijan, Gruzia and Turkey. In essence, Israel was being the good St. Bernard pup of the United States, carrying the barrel of goodies. But faced with the treat of the Russians to more fully supply Iran, the Madame Livni peed her panties in fear and caved in to Russian demands that Israel cease aiding the Gruzians.

This cave-in was not merely done because Madame Livni was afraid of the Russians – though she may well have been. Ha'aretz reported today that the U.S. put the brakes on Israeli plans to attack on Iran's nuclear facilities. So, given that in their minds, the Israeli regime could no longer attack Iran to defend itself, a foreign power arming Iran further was a mortal danger.

So we see here the double abandonment of the United States of supposed "allies". We in Israel get to twist in the wind while we await the next Arab missile assault. The Georgian regime will be emasculated, and now either ditched in a coup d'état, or thrown out in the next elections.

So, in short, the leaders of small countries have not learned the essential lessons of the double cross of Iraq in 1990 (the Americans built up Saddam Hussein in the 1980s and turned on him when he sought to annex Kuwait – after asking American permission) and the betrayal of Iraq's Shi'ites in 1991 by the United States. They foolishly put their hopes in America and both they and the people they seek to lead get screwed over.

Powered by

About Ruvy

Hi!! Thanks for coming to my article! I was raised in Brooklyn, was graduated from the City University of New York in 1978 with a BA in political science and public administration there. I lived in Minnesota for a number of years. There I managed restaurants and wrote stories. We moved with our children family to Israel where we now reside. My work can be found at Ruvy's Roost, Jewish Indy,, and on Facebook under my full name, Reuven Kossover
  • http://www.associatedcontent.com/user/39420/joanne_huspek.html Joanne Huspek

    You’re right, Ruvy. We Americans are a complacent people. Some of us don’t notice what is in our own back yards, much less overseas. This isn’t a recent development; I noticed it when living in Germany in 1975. Sadly, human nature is such that not much changes.

    The layers of our “foreign” policy are so complex, I doubt that many could understand what is going on even with detailed descriptions. And the rest? Well, they probably don’t want to believe.

  • Ruvy

    Joanne,

    Thank you for your kind words…. Baronius complains elsewhere that I complain of the very same trait you admit to, asking “what can we do”. What you can do is to at least be aware. As you’ve said elsewhere commenting on my articles, it takes a big girl to admit she is wrong.

    You’ve done that. And reading this, painful as it is, gets you to be more aware.

    The big thing I ask you to be aware of is this. Events occurring here, from the Caucasus down to the Gulf of Hormuz west to Tripoli on the Lebanese coast, are all of a piece. However you view them from your own perspective is your own business. But view them as one of a piece. They are all tightly related.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    UPDATE…UPDATE…UPDATE…UPDATE…UPDATE

    Russian aggression in the Caucasus continues unabated as the Americans “plan” aid.

    As we see from this AP report filed at 08:45 Israel Summer Time, the Russian army is on its way to T’bilsi, violating the cease-fire they agreed to. From the article:

    An Associated Press reporter saw dozens of Russian trucks and armored vehicles leaving the city of Gori, some 20 miles south of the separatist region of South Ossetia and home of a key highway that divides Georgia in two, and moving deeper into Georgia.

    Soldiers waved at journalists and one jokingly shouted, “Come with us, beauty, we’re going to Tbilisi.” The convoy roared southeast, toward the Georgian capital, but then turned north and set up camp about an hour’s drive away from it.

    So, as predicted here, the United States government is making noise – from the article:or her part, Rice said:

    “This is not 1968 and the invasion of Czechoslovakia where Russia can threaten a neighbor, occupy a capital, overthrow a government and get away with it. Things have changed.”

    The president said a huge U.S. aid effort was under way, including American naval forces and C-17 military cargo planes, to get clothes, blankets, medicine and other supplies to refugees. The European Union agreed to consider deploying European peacekeeping monitors to the area.

    With the Russian army one hours drive from T’bilsi, it appears hard to believe that any aid will arrive in time without the danger of a military confrontation of some kind.

    As I pointed out in comment #2 above, the events in the region must be considered as all of a piece.

    As I pointed out in my first article on this invasion, this conflagration in the Caucasus may just be the flame that sets off the explosive powder laid all over the Middle East over the last three years

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Frankly, this is far more of a substantial response than I expected from the US much less the Europeans. It may be too late, but at least it looks like they’re taking the situation seriously and aren’t choosing to delude themselves about what Russia’s long term intentions are. Georgia may not be salvagable, but I suspect that Russia is going to lose a lot of credibility over this if the MSM doesn’t manage to whitewash it all.

    Dave

  • Ruvy

    But Dave,

    You and everyone else writing on this only considers Gruzia, Russia and oil – you all fail to consider the larger issues at stake in addition to the locus of the immediate fighting and the locus of the immediate money lost (or gained, if you are looking at it from the Russian POV).

    The refusal of the United States to countenance an Israeli attack on Iran only makes the Russian threat to further arm Iran more credible, forcing (considering the gutlessness of a regime that has no faith in the mission of Israel) Israel to leave Georgia hanging to twist in the wind along with us – as we have no real choice but to wait for the next missile attack from the Arabs – and the promise of late “humanitarian aid” from the States.

    In THIS light, consider the even worse fate of Lebanese under the thumb of HizbAllah and this article in the Daily Star. From the article:

    Gemayel added that Hizbullah’s arms were not aimed at liberating the Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms.

    “These weapons are part of a broader regional strategy … Hizbullah is part of Iran’s strategy and nothing else … the entire situation will change if Iran reconciles with the West.”
    >>>>>>>>>>
    Meanwhile, Minister of State Youssef Taqla said on Thursday that the countdown to the return of the Shebaa Farms through diplomatic means “has started.” He did not elaborate.

    Remember the St. Bernard pup bringing aid to Gruzia – Israel? It’s all of a piece, Dave, all of a piece.

  • Ruvy

    Also Dave, looking at all this in a light that is broader than the Caucasus mountains – consider this Debkafiles exclusive reportJumblatt deserts Lebanon’s pro-Western camp, signs pact with pro-Iranian Hizballah.

    From the article:

    Neither Israeli ministers, sunk in an acrimonious contest over the succession to Ehud Olmert, nor the United States in the dying days of the Bush presidency, have lifted a finger to arrest Lebanon’s swift slide into the Iranian-Syrian orbit.

    Jumblatt, after watching pro-Western strategic positions crumble in his country, decided to join forces with Hizballah to shield his ancestral mountain domain from Syrian domination.

    The Druze and Hizballah militias agreed to set up a joint commission for coordinating military operations. Hizballah is represented by its security and intelligence commander, Wafiq Shafa (who was in change of the recent prisoner swap with Israel) and the Druzes by Akram Shahaib.

    The joint security patrols for the Druze communities of the Chouf, will also give Hizballah a military presence on its third strategic Lebanese peak, after Mt. Sannine and Jebel Barukh.

    HizbAllah is the creature of Iran, which is increasingly the creature of Russia. Which is extending its power openly in Gruzia, and covertly in Syria-Lebanon.

    In addition, we can expect to see, in the not too distant future, the defection of Israeli Druze from the IDF.

    All of a piece.

  • wahoo

    #1

    “The layers of our “foreign” policy are so complex, I doubt that many could understand what is going on even with detailed descriptions.”

    Complex?

    Hardly…

    It’s simple imperialism.

    The neocons want to emulate the Roman Empire.

  • http://polemicscat.wordpress.com Polemicscat

    Of all the instances of ingratitude I can think of, Ruvy’s takes the prize. There wouldn’t be an Israel if the US had not supported it since its beginning in the 1950’s. Everybody expects the United States to save them when they get in trouble.

    Sure, the US has made bad decisions at times–what country hasn’t?—and it has cozied up to some unsavory characters like Stalin, but in doing so, the US saved Western Civilization.
    It wouldn’t be out of line to hear a “thank you” from beggars who are always hanging around with their hands held out.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    It certainly doesn’t help when so many people are simpleminded politicized reactionaries like Wahoo. Foreign policy works a lot better when people actually think about situations and don’t just spout talking points and catch phrases.

    Dave

  • Ruvy

    Of all the instances of ingratitude I can think of, Ruvy’s takes the prize. There wouldn’t be an Israel if the US had not supported it since its beginning in the 1950’s. Everybody expects the United States to save them when they get in trouble.

    BULLSHIT!!

    Polemicscat, you don’t want to get into a pissing match over history with me. It’ll wind up being my realities and backed up facts versus the delusions you can drag forth.

    I was born in America and lived a number of decades there. I understand well the attitude of self-indulgent belly button gazing Americans tend to practice – particularly in the Mid-west, where I lived for two decades. In addition to that, I studied the history of the Jewish people in detail, including the nature of the culture, and the way Jewish society developed in various parts of the world.

    For the moment, I’ll eschew beating you over the head with the realities of American “support” of Israel – I have other things to deal with right now. But feel free to look up my author profiles here at Blogcritics Magazine – both under Ruvy and Ruvy in Jerusalem. In reading the 108 articles there, I’m sure you’ll find at least a few of the items I’m talking about.

    We’ll leave aside my religious bent and biases for just a moment and put it this way for you. America has a decades long record of betraying and abandoning allies that rely on them. Israel is just one of many countries, and I happen to live here; and I’m not afraid of calling bullshit on American policy. That’s nothing new to me. Heck, I’ve been doing that since the American regime decided to waste thousands of lives in the swamps of ‘Nam.

    Later!

  • Condor

    “Heck, I’ve been doing that since the American regime decided to waste thousands of lives in the swamps of ‘Nam.” Ruvy

    Ruvy,

    You mean JFK and LBJ, right? The darlings of the left? Oh my, that’s two hands off subjects you have mentioned in one sitting.

    1. Israel (Can’t discredit them here, or face being labels anti-semitic…)
    2. JFK, (Can’t discredit him either, without facing the wrath of the JFK cult).

    But I will say this. Ameicans are anti-semitic, after all… if you look to the quarry from which the semites were dug… and the rock from which they were cleft it will reveal that

    1. Semites are decendants of Shem
    2. Abraham had off spring… those from Hagar (Ishmael), and those from Sarah (the 12 tribes of Israel. Ishamel being the forefather of the Arabs.

    Which leads to the conclusion that since the Arabs and the Israelists are half brothers. Attacks, both oral and physical are anti-semitic. Where’s the love?

    My, my, the world is a strange place.

  • Ruvy

    Condor,

    Come on, when have I used the term anti-Semitic? There are a few thousand of my comments littering the comment thread under my two monikers here, and when I’ve used the term anti-Semitic, I’ve used it to explain why I don’t use it – I prefer Jew-hatred. It gets right down to the point. None of this garbage about Arabs also being Semites to cornfuse matters for the yahoos.

    Also, aside from getting Heloise’s panties in a knot, what’s wrong with going after a conservative Democrat like JFK (who, like so many other politicians, also slept around) or a populist Democrat like LBJ?

  • dadas

    Russia forverer. RUSSIA! THE GREATEST!

  • Sam Johnson

    Dave:

    “It certainly doesn’t help when so many people are simpleminded politicized reactionaries like Wahoo. Foreign policy works a lot better when people actually think about situations and don’t just spout talking points and catch phrases.”

    Foreign policy works BEST when people actually think about situations and don’t just spout talking points and catch phrases — as Dave does — spouting talking points and catch phrases.

    How about addressing the point made…

    “It’s simple imperialism.

    The neocons want to emulate the Roman Empire.”

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Sam, the ‘point’ is silly and not worthy of addressing. It’s become a conspiracy theory and a joke. It’s not my job to refute the ridiculous, the burden rests on you to prove that the US is engaged in imperialism in any meaningful way.

    Dave

  • Sam Johnson

    “prove that the US is engaged in imperialism in any meaningful way.”?

    So the issue is what is meaningful?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    No, the issue is what is the US doing that is imperialistic.

    I’ll help you by defining imperialism. It is the process of conquering or taking control of other countries to increase the wealth and power of your own country.

    Where is the US doing this?

    Dave

  • Ruvy

    [Ruvy raps his quarter meter stick on the desk, calling for order in the class]

    Boys and girls, it is not a matter of American imperialism. Imperial authority can be asserted in many different ways, a fact that the resident history “professor” here, Davey Nalle, tends to ignore. We have three lessons for our Sunday school class, today.

    The first comes from Ynetnews.com, in Israel, from an article a day or two old. Source: Secret IDF material went unguarded in Georgia

    Lead Paragraph: Former Israeli soldier returns disillusioned from training Georgian soldiers for company owned by Brig. Gen. Hirsch in preparation for war with Russia; says confidential army material such as charts, officers’ names was revealed to foreign troops

    The Israeli aid was carried on by a private corporation with the assent and cooperation of the IDF. The employees were former soldiers. But companies in it for the money aren’t always careful about other considerations. From the article:

    Hirsch’s company was responsible for training an elite search and rescue unit, and training was handled by the companies of two other reserve officers, all of which hired ex-soldiers like Tomer. This resulted in hundreds of former IDF soldiers working as trainers in Georgia over the past few months.

    Tomer said he and his friends had at first received guidelines for the handling of covert material, listing what they could and couldn’t tell Georgian soldiers about IDF activities. But in actuality, he said, the Georgians were told top secret information.

    “When I arrived in the operations room I saw a book of IDF safety instructions that shouldn’t have been there,” he said. “There were IDF CDs that explicitly said, ‘Confidential’ documenting army activities, charts from special units’ operations, and officers’ names.” He added that the room was not guarded, making this information easily obtainable to everyone.

    Tomer said the main reason for the infidelity was mercenary. “The training companies wanted to finish the projects as quickly as possible in order to create more projects and make more money,” he said. “We knew the training had to be completed quickly because the soldiers would soon have to get into real military activity.”
    ……………………………..
    when the training was officially over, Tomer did not feel that his soldiers were ready for war. “By Israeli standards, the soldiers had almost zero capability and the officers were mediocre,” he said. “It was clear that taking that army to war was illogical.”

    By keeping in touch with one of his soldiers, Tomer discovered that most of the men he had trained had indeed been killed in the war.

    Everyone gets tainted by the corrupt methods for accomplishing things considered so “in” in modern Israel’s secular culture – the culture of the “fixer”. Secrets are lost by the careless mentality of lo m’shané “it doesn’t make a difference”, the governing standard of quality control in much of the IDF. And the other governing standard, na’asé et ze chíkchok “lets get it done, chop chop!!” manages to cost lives as well…

    The second lesson is longer, and nastier. A fellow at Desicritics related this in one of his comments there.

    regarding so-called “allies”, who are used, abused and then discarded by the imperial powers, there’s an interesting anectdote recounted in a piece somewhere by Tariq Ali.

    After Pakistan was used as an “ally” during the Russian invasion of occupation of Afghanistan, and when the whole thing was over (precipitating the birth of the Taliban, supported to the hilt by the US administration) the Pakistanis expected some “rewards” for being loyal “allies”. As is well known, the US administration had better diversions after this one. Apparently a Pakistani general complained bitterly to a high ranking US administration official about his country being ignored after they had served their role as “allies” (useful idiots??). According to Tariq Ali, the response of the US official was: (paraphrase)

    “Allies? Allies? You were never our “allies””. Pakistan was simply a condom we used to enter Afghanistan. We all know what happens to used condoms, don’t we”.

    Not sure if this incident really ever happened or not, but even if it did not, this is usually the pattern and the result for all those who willingly line up to serve as allies for one imperial project or the other

    That quote is a most appropriate comment which summarizes the entire situation that Israel, and now Gruzia find themselves in. Don’t you think we should send it off to “crime minister” Ehud Olmert and the hottie panting after his seat in the cabinet, the lovely Tzipora Livni? Perhaps, amending condom to sanitary napkin would bring the point closer to home for the lovely Ms. Livni.

    The final lesson comes from a press conference. The same source at Desicritics relates,

    But he (Saakashvili) did tell off Condoleeza Rice in the press conference yesterday. He did not mince words against those who had egged him on (the US, France, NATO), even though of course he criticized Russia too. Did anyone notice the sullen, ashen expression on Rice’s face last night?

    Saakashvili didn’t get the State Deptartment memo that when the US government shoves a stick up your asshole anus, you are supposed to smile in gratitude, and tell everyone what great friends the Americans are. I hope that Rice had one in her “purse” to give to the man. And hope that Rice had some Woolite with her to clean off the pee pee stains Saakashvili left on her skirt….

    The assignment for today is to draft a telegram/e-mail to the Israeli “crime minister” and to those who would succeed him on the dangers of entanglement with the United States, using the quote above. You have half an hour. Afterwards, Mrs. Birnbaum [Ruvy nods at Mrs. Birnbaum’s son, Teddy] was nice enough to donate a three whole kosher pizza pies for the class to enjoy. Let’s all remember to wash our hands and to say the appropriate blessing before eating the pizza, “boré miné mezonót”.

    You may begin.

    [Ruvy gets up and goes to the teacher’s room to prepare himself a cup of coffee]

  • Ruvy

    Driving home the connectedness of the way regional strategy is planned by the Russians, Debkafiles reports that Russia is considering nuclear missiles for Syria, Mediterranean, Baltic. From the article:

    DEBKAfile’s military sources report Moscow’s planned retaliation for America’s missile interceptors in Poland and US-Israeli military aid to Georgia may come in the form of installing Iskandar surface missiles in Syria and its Baltic enclave of Kaliningrad.

    Russian Baltic and Middle East warships, submarines and long-range bombers may be armed with nuclear warheads, according to Sunday newspapers in Europe.

    …The Iskander’s cruise attributes make its launch and trajectory extremely hard to detect and intercept. If this missile reaches Syria, Israel will have to revamp its anti-missile defense array and Air Force assault plans for the third time in two years, as it constitutes a threat which transcends all its defensive red lines.

    Moscow’s war planners know this and are therefore considering new sea and air bases in Syria as sites for the Iskander missiles. Russia would thus keep the missiles under its hand and make sure they were not transferred to Iran. At the same time, Syrian crews would be trained in their operation.

    The Russians are only adding to the explosive powder and to the power of the explosion of war when this keg is ignited for real

  • Jingo

    Dave:

    “I’ll help you by defining imperialism. It is the process of conquering or taking control of other countries to increase the wealth and power of your own country.

    Where is the US doing this?”

    How about IRAQ… for starters.

  • Ruvy

    Jingo,

    I’m not defending American policy by any means, but using Iraq as an example of imperialism is, well just not appropriate. Imperialism is supposed to gain you control over something to your profit.

    America’s adventure in Iraq has nearly destroyed the American economy, forcing the American government to sink billions into the swamps of the Fertile Crescent. If Americans (other than some oil companies and banks) are benefiting, how do you explain the situation where America is so stretched out that she cannot respond forcefully to the Russians?

    My suggesting to you and others is that you not waste time in arguments over labels. Imperialism is a mere label, and it is not so evil a label as to waste effort attempting to plaster to someone. I know Americans who would be proud to be called imperialists and who bemoan American inefficiency at this effort….

    Once upon a time, I was one of them.

  • Jingo

    “Imperialism is supposed to gain you control over something to your profit.”

    The fact that it didn’t work in Iraq to any significant degee doesn’t change the original intent.

    Recall — “Mission Accomplished”?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Jingo, I usually refrain from calling people morons, but you’re making it difficult.

    The US has done nothing but spend money and lives in Iraq. We have not gained any profit or any territory, nor was that ever our intention, nor is there any possibility of that being the ultimate outcome.

    So either your grip on the facts of the Iraq war is flawed or you don’t quite understand the definition of imperialism.

    Dave

  • Jordan Richardson

    We have not gained any profit or any territory, nor was that ever our intention, nor is there any possibility of that being the ultimate outcome.

    Are you purposely ignoring the numerous private contractors? I’m really not sure who you mean by “we,” but the notion of war profiteers isn’t exactly secretive.

    Most people with even the most cursory knowledge of the subject are aware of Bechtel’s enormous no-bid contract worth $2.4 billion (and Bechtel’s failure to actually reconstruct anything decent), Custer Battles (representing the most significant of at least 70 cases of fraud against Iraq-related American war profiteers), General Dynamics, Nour USA Ltd. (a company created just after the war began with the purpose of providing security along the oil pipeline with the help of Ahmed Chalabi, another charming opportunist), Chevron, and ExxonMobil.

    All of the above companies have profited immensely from the occupation and from the war in Iraq. Notice I haven’t even brought up Halliburton or Blackwater, but I figured those would be so obvious that even you’d know that they’re carving up Iraq for profit, Dave.

    So unless you meant something entirely different by “we,” I’m curious to know how you stand behind the notion that the US isn’t profiting from Iraq.

    As for the intention to invade in the first place, any concrete explanation of that is so convoluted and muddled by rhetoric and changing positions and empty theories that it’s hard to navigate any of it anymore.

  • Ruvy

    Jordan,

    You did read my response to the poorly named Jingo. Perhaps I ought to have said, “If Americans (other than some oil companies, banks and war profiteers) are benefiting, how do you explain the situation where America is so stretched out that she cannot respond forcefully to the Russians?”

    His insistence on trying to pin the imperialist label on America for its intervention in Iraq is not moronic because the intent of the States was not imperialistic. The States went into Iraq to unhorse a dictator and they did so. I frankly do not see how “building democracy” differs significantly from “defending the rights of self-determination of South Ossertians and Abhazians” that the Russians claim to be doing now. Both were and are lies.

    Jingo’s insistence on pinning the “imperialist” label on the States is moronic because aside from the oil companies, banks and war profiteers, the war has not benefited the people of the United States at all. Indeed the opposite has happened.

    But all this canoodling over Iraq is something of a waste of time, in my humble opinion. The danger to you, me and Dave is the fact that Putin was trained in the elite Spetznaz unit of the Soviet military, is a blackbelt and the former head of the KGB. He won’t fight a cold war, but a hot war – a war designed to gain mastery over Europe and the United States. There are many ways to do this, and two have already been demonstrated. One was force majeure against an alleged ally, Gruzia.

    This AP article posted at AOL News about an hour ago talks of how “NATO foreign ministers suspended their formal contacts with Russia as punishment. Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said “there can be no business as usual with Russia under present circumstances.” But the NATO allies, bowing to pressure from European nations that depend heavily on Russia for energy, stopped short of more severe penalties being pushed by the United States. The Russian Ambassador to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, dismissed the impact of the emergency meeting in Brussels, Belgium: “The mountain gave birth to a mouse.”

    The headline described how the Russians seized American Humvees scheduled to be shipped out. The Russians are making the Americans look like nitwits and fools and everyone can see it. And we see the Russian mastery over Europe already being demonstrated.

    Putin is no drunk stumbling through the halls of power with two buddies sharing a three ruble bottle of vodka.

    He is the most dangerous man on the planet.

  • Jordan Richardson

    The States went into Iraq to unhorse a dictator and they did so.

    Absolute utter crap.

  • Ruvy

    [Ruvy] The States went into Iraq to unhorse a dictator and they did so.

    [Jordan] Absolute utter crap.

    Please Jordan,

    Don’t waste your time on irrelevant issues. It doesn’t matter anymore. The States are finished as a country for having sunk all that money, manpower and prestige into the swamps of the Tigris and Euphrates – and having gained nothing by it – not even a way out! As the dollar depreciates, all the profits of the war profiteers will dissipate also. And when the dollar finally crashes, the banks will be gone, too.

    But Putin will still be there, and his army will still be ready to roll. Keep your eye on the target – and on the enemy.

  • Jordan Richardson

    Okay. I’ll try and keep that in mind.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    UPDATE…UPDATE…UPDATE…UPDATE…UPDATE

    This just arrived in my inbox: From AP reporting in the Jerusalem Post

    Norway: Russia to cut all military ties with NATO

    From the article:

    Norway’s Defense Ministry says Russia has informed it that it plans to cut all military ties with NATO.

    Ministry spokeswoman Heidi Langvik-Hansen says the country’s embassy received a telephone call from Russia’s Defense Ministry on Wednesday, saying Moscow plans “to freeze all military cooperation with NATO and allied countries.”

    Norway was told in the telephone call a written note about this would be sent out shortly.

    Russian officials were not immediately available to confirm the information and officials at NATO headquarters said they have not been informed of any such moves.

    There we have it, folks. I told you Putin would not fight a “cold war” – this is heating up fast.

  • http://blogcritics.org/writer/dan_miller Dan Miller

    Ruvy,

    If the U.S. were not spread so thin, do you really think that our response would be different? I don’t know the answer, and don’t have enough information to speculate intelligently. Perhaps (I hope) you do.

    Dan

  • Ruvy

    Dan,

    Look at my “Sunday school lesson” (comment #18). The answer is there. I live in one of America’s “condom countries”. Come to think of it, so do you.

  • Dmitry

    First of all Russia protected the citizens, but before it Georgia has literally exterminated more than 2 thousand peace citizens SO after that you name Russia an aggressor! Lie. And if you did not see interview of citizens SO I to you will inform – all population SO against joining of Georgia and all condemn their policy and all population SO is grateful Russia what they have stopped the Georgian armies, thus and all the rest to Georgia delivered the weapon USA and in every possible way helped them, help now and support that violence which have made the Georgian armies concerning SO, why?!Thus America does not tell a word about the Georgian aggression concerning South Ossetia at United Nations sessions!

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    Dmitry,

    First of all, the Russians have no damned business in the Caucasus. The Romanovs pushed the Russian empire there, pressuring the Gruzian kingdom and finally annexing it. The Romanovs were, as was the USSR that succeeded it, and now the Russian Federation that has succeeded the USSR, imperialist and expansionist powers. Put simply, the Russians wish to now control as much or Gruzia as they can. The Russian empire in all of its forms, has never given a damn about the dignity of the Ossetians or the Abkhazians – a fact you know as well as I do, whether you are willing to admit it or not. And with America in its weakened and flaccid state, that is a distinct possibility. Ossetia and Abkhazia are merely excuses to exercise Russian imperial ambition.

    Second of all, I have yet to see the Russian who apologizes and recognizes as sinful the 50 millions of people put to death under the régime of Yosef Stalin. Russian Jews in Israel don’t generally apologize – they were the next victims in line and are grateful that Stalin died when he did. But I have yet to see the Russian non-Jew who says that the wholesale murder of millions on Russian soil in the second quarter of the twentieth (Christian) century was a sin. Stalin made Hitler look like a damned piker, a cheapskate by comparison to him. Before any Russian complains about Gruzia (or anybody else, for that matter) killing people, they need to bow their own heads in shame over how their own leaders rinsed their boots in blood. I’m waiting, Dmitry.

    Thirdly, Dmitry, I’d advise you to remember who you so arrogantly inform of your propaganda. I’m a Jew in Israel, not some soft American who has an easy life. And as a Jew, I generally regard Russia as a land of savage Jew-haters laden with Cossacks and pogroms – a Russian word, I might add. When the Ukrainians under Khmelnitsky, and later your damned Czars split up Poland, you ruined the most prosperous Jewish community in Europe. Russians made Jews act like animals just in order to survive in your sick empire, and led them to act with hatred towards each other. Our own people paid for that needless hatred with the Nazi holocaust. In addition to leading our people to act like animals towards each other, your communist regime erased Jewish culture in your country, causing many Jews to forget who they are and turning them into savages – like Russians are. And now thousands of them infest this country with the rotten habits of your culture – a vicious hatred, violence, drunkenness, organized crime and prostitution. So if it appears that I carry a grudge against Russia, I applaud you for your sharp perception. I do.

    But you Russians have not yet been judged for your sins against my people. So far as I am concerned, Israeli nukes should be aimed at Russia and the Ukraine to seek vengeance for the evils Russians and Ukrainians perpetrated against my people. But since our weapons are not strong enough or numerous enough to do the job properly, I call upon My G-d, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to judge you and your people with the cruelest severity instead. And I’m confident that our prophets have your people in mind as one of the nations to be destroyed during the historical period we live in today – The End of Days.

    Fourthly, bear in mind that understanding what kind of nation your country is, I fully realize what kind of threat Prime Minister (and former President) Putin presents to the world. He is the most dangerous man on the planet. He is a trained member of the Spetsnaz, a former KGB officer, a trained blackbelt – in short, a man who thinks like the leader of a wolf pack. None of the leaders of the world’s nations who talk with him have his training or his determination to attain to his goals. He has demonstrated how to exercise power, cowing the European members of NATO into submission. His fleet sits in the Mediterranean, with a likely base in Syria, his military helps Iran develop it nuclear ambitions. Your government has intimidated the Israeli government to hand over to the Russian government prime real estate in the center of Jerusalem, OUR national capital. I have a great deal of respect for this leader of the Russian wolf pack.

    And I understand clearly that he is an enemy of the Jewish people, just as is the Protestant aristocracy ruling the United States.

    Finally, Dmitry, this brings me to the point of my article. The point of my article was not the evils of Russian aggression. I don’t generally belabor the obvious in my articles. Any European will testify to the savageness and uncivilized behavior of Russian soldiers of occupation. The point of my article was the stupidity of any nation relying on the United States to be a loyal and reliable ally.

  • Dmitry

    Well in the first in all nations there are bad people, and it is erroneous to name Russian the enemy number 1 for Jews, personally I and my friends in any way we do not respect those who with contempt concerns other of the nations, and such people full and not only in Russia, but also in other countries. If to mention history and to act in a role of the vindictive avenger in the world the chaos, now absolutely other situation will start to be created. In SO first of all the Georgian armies have started to attack the Russian peacemakers and inhabitants SO, our armies long enough waited for the permission to input of armies to territory of Gruzy and SO. The NATO in this of situations has not reacted in any way. And to whom was to rescue defenceless people SO? Time you have mentioned history why you not упамянул Germany, whose purpose of Dictatorship has been directed on destruction of Jews? And thus that dictatorship for a long time already have condemned! Also what now and Germany should apologise before all world? IT in the past, and now at all countries absolutely other interests. And it is absolutely not clear to what the USA aspire – they have armed and have trained the Georgian army which has in turn begun растрел the peace population, it is normal? So that reaction of Moscow монжно to understand. Concerning Stalin. I also as well as you condemn its policy and in Russia not I one such, here more 90%граждан so consider. Any country for murder of the citizen is ready presently on improbable acts. In the conflict Southern Ossetias and Gruzy all was lost more than two honeycombs of Russian citizens, and for the sake of what?, and in order that the Georgian armies have terminated растрел population SO. The USA to a campaign of it does not see. And still, Ruvy, give we will not mention a more ethnic theme. Is very insulting to hear such words in the address when it at all so. (Type Russian main enemies еврееям), in Russia very few people so considers, and if consider, only idiots and such people are in all countries.

  • Al

    As I can see evryone makes a coment what they heard from their states press propaganda. everything is a bit more complicated if to bear in mind that Gorgias Sakashvili is a pupet of USA…For us pure people the true will be known maybe in 300 years, when no one cares…

  • Al

    Ruvy… I see that you a very inteligent guy, but you are full of hate and anger, it looks like you will exspload from all the hate you keep in yourselfe, calm down, cos that just makes people sick… live in pease and enjoy your life to the full., and stop reading history that will destroy you, we all know that there were times bad, and yes u have bed and good people everywhere, but don`t forget the bad people coming from the people like you with all that anger wich one day exsploads and creats awfull things……pease……

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy

    I see that Russians do not like being told off (see Dmitry’s barely coherent fuming in comment #33 – and others would tell me not to harbor anger – that it’s bad for my health.

    What a joke!

    Dmitry’s comment shows that he cannot comprehend that someone is looking down at Russia and Russians in Russia as mere savage and poisonous insects – dangerous and to be respected – but that they are not the point of the article. My article condemns those fools who place faith in America.

    The last two comments to this thread by Al show the root of how evil succeeds in the world. “Good” people shrug and say the truth cannot be known “For us pure people the true will be known maybe in 300 years, when no one cares….“, says Al.

    Secondly, see his abjuration to me…. “you a very intelligent guy, but you are full of hate and anger, it looks like you will explode from all the hate you keep in yourself, calm down, cos that just makes people sick… live in peace and enjoy your life to the full., and stop reading history that will destroy you,

    Someone has to speak the truth and stop ignoring the history that will destroy him. It is this ignoring of history that will destroy you that has led America to its sorry and pathetic state today.

    Fools ignore history and sit silent while evil men cause death and misery. The refusal to see and denounce evil eventually turns on he who shuts his eyes to it.