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Ron Paul Hits the Third Rail of Politics

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In recent weeks the thundering Ron Paul freight train has kind of derailed. Even though Paul announced that he was ending his campaign on March 8, his supporters are apparently convinced that he’s still a viable candidate, despite his repeated public statements that they should move on and try to do some good working within the GOP. Nonetheless, many of them are pushing for a final surge and a surprise (and entirely delusional) victory at the GOP convention this summer. Admittedly, Paul is still making a lot of speeches and pushing his agenda, so maybe that’s contributing to their confusion, but he’s made it pretty clear he’s campaigning for his ideas not an office.

Yet if anyone had any question about the viability of Paul as a national candidate, the issue ought to be put to rest by his recent decision to leap boldly onto the electrified third rail of politics and accept an invitation to be the keynote speaker at this fall’s 50th annual convention of the John Birch Society.

For those not already familiar with the John Birch Society, it is a secretive and rather paranoid extreme-right organization which was originally founded in the era of Joe McCarthy’s witch hunts to help root out the communist infiltrators who infested American society. Those communists were easy to spot because they were all immigrants or blacks or Jews, plus the occasional homosexual. The Birchers have always been big on ‘real’ American values and good at finding imaginary windmills to joust at. They borrowed a lot of ideas from their enemies in the process, including much of the methodology and organizational structure of Soviet covert operations of the Stalinist era, with a well developed propaganda machine, multiple front groups, and a cell-like organization.

The Birchers kind of lost their way during the 1980s and 1990s, eclipsed by the rise of the religious right and losing focus with the fall of communism, but today they are back and stronger than ever, riding a wave of conspiracy fanaticism which has grown from seeds they’ve been nurturing for years. They’re still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed. Their followers are fanatics and the organization has a lot of the characteristics of a cult. Many participants are intensely religious and the membership has a lot of overlap with groups like Christian Identity. I give them credit for putting up a fairly reasonable seeming front on their website, but if you read their publications, email lists or blogs you see what issues really excite them.

Today they are fighting the same old battle with new names, and the fallen communist empire has just resurfaced in the even more nefarious guise of the ‘new world order’. The idea that America is threatened by a huge, covert, and many-headed conspiracy is selling like hotcakes. You can see their books at booths in the gun shows and flea markets, they’re all over the Internet, and they’ve pretty much taken over the chaotic fringes of Ron Paul’s presidential campaign. Some ‘patriots’ like Timothy McVeigh find their brand of anti-government populism inspiring, and activists like radio ranter Alex Jones and the ‘9/11 Truth’ movement take many of their talking points from Bircher sources.

During the Republican primaries, Ron Paul made an effort to distance himself from the JBS as concern grew that so many of his most vocal supporters seemed to be coming from the dangerous fringe of conspiracy paranoia and reactionary bigotry. Make no mistake, a lot of good people supported Ron Paul, and the campaign offered a lot of positive ideas for much needed reforms for the nation. But at the same time a lot of the campaign’s energy came from Birchers who saw it as a chance to spread their message of nativism, protectionism, isolationism, and intolerance into the mainstream.

As I rooted for Dr. Paul I often found myself clinging to the fact that endorsements from JBS-related groups and the Aryan Nation and holocaust deniers and David Duke weren’t really Dr. Paul’s fault. He couldn’t choose who endorsed him, any more than he could reject donations from supporters based on their beliefs. After all, it was his principles he was running on, not theirs.

As it turns out, I was just fooling myself. The masks came off last week when Dr. Paul accepted the invitation to speak at the JBS convention and called the group a “great and patriotic organization.” Ron Paul’s supporters can now stop claiming their candidate has any real legitimacy. Paul can also stop his protestations that only a small faction of his followers believe in crazy conspiracy theories, because by embracing the Birchers he has confirmed everyone’s worst suspicions and made it very clear that he is as deeply mired in the culture of bigotry and intolerance as the worst of his followers.

We now know that David Duke and WAR didn’t endorse Paul by mistake. They endorsed him because he shares their beliefs. Despite his pretensions of being a libertarian, Paul is a reactionary extremist of the worst sort. This is not like the lunatic fringe endorsing Paul. This is Paul endorsing the lunatic fringe. With any luck this revelation will motivate his more idealistic followers to sever their ties with the Birchers in the movement and try to find a permanent home among the real libertarians and reformers of the Republican Party. There’s plenty of room and plenty of welcome for them if they leave their Bircher comrades and their intolerance and hate behind.

Dr. Paul’s campaign is over. Maybe his career is too. I hope it’s still possible to salvage some good out of the movement he spearheaded.

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About Dave Nalle

  • http://www.futonreport.net/ Matthew T. Sussman

    “Admittedly, Paul is still making a lot of speeches and pushing his agenda, so maybe that’s contributing to their confusion.”

    But the thing is, he didn’t drop out. Just ended his campaign. Technically still on the ballot. John Edwards and Mittens did the same thing.

  • crystalmethod

    YOU are the 3rd rail. Only a conspiratorial nutjob would spend time worrying about the JBS. [Personal attack deleted]

  • NH

    This is an interesting piece of disinformation.

    He just opened an office in a state where they have not yet voted.

    He is taking caucuses everywhere by about 3/4 the delegates.

    And the GOP is crying foul. Wahhhhh.. Heh.

    JBS is one of the best research groups around. You ought to read their magazine sometime and educate yourself.

    If all you have is to cry ‘conspiracy’ then you have nothing.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    Good point, Matt. There’s a technical difference. However, with this endorsement of the JBS his campaign and his hopes of ever being anything more than a rogue congressman are over.

    NH, I didn’t cry conspiracy. That’s what the Birchers do. I just pointed out what a terrible mistake it is for Paul to embrace them.

    Dave

  • NH

    Considering you don’t like personal attacks you’ve made some pretty bad ones yourself.

    FACT: JBS are not racists, most of their staff are ‘foreign’ types.

    FACT: Communism is not dead, it’s just been accepted as the one-world philosophy of Marxism in our schools and churches and even promoted by our Fed gov’t in the schools with the mandated UNESCO curriculum.

    FACT: Gorbachov and Brzezinski are now working for US, Gorby out of the Presidio. You thought that the cold war just ‘ended’? Nope that was a red herring.

    So your whole premise is flawed.
    And therein lies the reason this country is doomed, blind people like yourself.

  • leftcoastfool

    “They borrowed a lot of ideas from their enemies in the process, including much of the mission and organizational structure of Soviet covert operations of the Stalinist era, with a well developed propaganda machine, multiple front groups, and a cell-like organization.”

    You could say the same about our Federal Government… They CONTROL the media, ignore the Constitution (“God-damned piece of paper” per our President) while continually eroding our civil liberties, and now they are implementing a COMMAND ECONOMY by working on expanding the powers of the (ILLEGAL) Federal Reserve. If you want to attack anyone, you should at least recognize that your attacks are equally valid when used against the Government that you are supporting. No, not all conspiracy theories are true. But YES, the Fed IS destroying our currency and the Federal Government IS bankrupting us. We are going the way of all previous empires, but you and your ilk are either too blind, too stubborn, too closed-minded, or too STUPID to see it.

  • ricknhouston

    what an idiotic thing for a libertarian leaning “journalist” to say. You know, you have been trying to pick a fight for some time now, I’ll be in town for the ROT rally at the end of the month, I think I’ll look you up while I’m there to see what your old man ass is made of…

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    It sounds to me like you are the one who is the conspiracy theorist. You went off on a complete emotional rant, pointing at ghosts in every corner, but didn’t back up even one accusation with any facts whatsoever.

    Practice what you preach, my friend. Or at least take a couple of deep breaths and think about what you are writing before you go off on a senseless tirade.

  • http://www.elitebloggers.com Dave Nalle

    George, there’s only one fact needed for this article, the fact that Ron Paul is speaking at the JBS convention, and I provided a link to that.

    As a Paul supporter, aren’t you even a little bit disappointed to find out that he has allied himself with the most irrational and deranged elements of the far right?

    IMO Paul himself is a lost cause. I wanted to make that point clear before moving on to try to salvage some good from the movement that grew up around him.

    Rick, the fact that you have to resort to physical threats is very telling. When that happens it means that you’ve lost the argument or perhaps you just had nothing to say in the first place. Have fun at ROT.

    Dave

  • http://www.skepticsongs.com/blog.html tom mullen

    I would have believed everything you wrote about the John Birch Society until about a month ago, when I heard their president speak. I grew up and completed my education occasionally hearing about these people, and always accepted my spoon-fed opinion that they were nutjobs. However, after hearing their president speak for about 45 minutes, I found myself at the end still waiting for the crazy to start. As usual, any constitutionalist person or society automatically gets labeled a racist. I think its time to shed some light on this. Constitutionalists reasonably come to the conclusion that the federal government has gone WAY beyond its proper role. This was an argument put forth by the Confederacy during the civil war. The Confederacy also refuse to free their slaves, at least at that point in time and because the federal government told them so. Therefore, (bear with the tortured logic), all constitutionalists are pro-slavery, anti-black, and deep down wish the south would have won the civil war. Ron Paul was accused of being a racist. David Duke is a racist. Some more tortured logic: David Duke is a racist. David Duke supports Ron Paul. Therefore, anyone who supports Ron Paul is a racist. And that is how we know that witches are made of wood.

  • steve

    hello dave well i see your lame article will once again get many responses as if this is all you can come up with on the good dr. paul what a joke even makes me snicker a bit about you reaching for negative stuff on dr. paul as is this the best you can do, why dont you try some of this as follows, check him out on you tube questioning general petraeus on iraq and iran recently as he takes them to school and all they can say is no comment duhhhhhhhh, fed chief bernanke gets taken out behind the tool shed numerous time by the good dr. paul as he states nothing but cold hard facts on our economics, i mean can you also add what he is trying to do to help this country get going in the right direction as i dont see any other canidates come close to how dr. paul takes these people to task. why is it none of you people can put positive flow on the great things he is doing? i mean dave are you enjoying whats happening to your dollar in your wallet as the fed runs rampent in printing endless dollars and inflation as the good dr. has at least a plan to get the rudder of the ship going in the right direction. look how dr. paul is out to educate people on how the economy works as he has enlightened many people that didnt have a clue on how the fed works a year ago. look at all the young americans embracing his message of freedom and economics, i mean dave isint there so much more positive flowing from the good dr. paul than this article that you choose to write about as most folks could give a rats ass about the jbs situation. why is it that as our economy and civil libertys get more eroded you cant write about that???? as that seems to be a skosh more important in my book. i think dr. paul is one of the most honest forthright individuals in politics today and this is all you have to offer on him??? hmmmmmmmm wake up dave as this man has a lot more to offer than the puppets of choice running for office as whats available out there is more of the hold your nose funk that people have put up with for years, well not me as its a no brainer to see who im voting for as dr. paul is the only logical choice regards steve

  • Robert

    Dave,

    Actually, you are incorrect. There is not “only one fact needed for this article.”

    You said that Ron Paul ended his campaign. Ron Paul did not end his campaign. THAT is a fact that you are choosing to ignore.

    If you feel personally threatened by The John Birch Society, that is your problem. It is also your right to publicly broadcast your fear and paranoia.

    However, spreading misinformation and lies about a current Presidential candidate is morally wrong.

    You are the one who is confused!

  • Clavos

    spreading misinformation and lies about a current Presidential candidate is morally wrong.

    Tell that to Obama and Hillary, who have been doing just that for months, now.

    Forget baseball; that’s the gringo national pastime…

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Robert. Do you know how to click on links? The WaPo article is titled “Paul Ends His Campaign” and repeats that statement in the first line of the first paragraph. If that’s a morally wrong lie I suggest you take it up with the Washington Post and Ron Paul himself. They’re the source, not me.

    Watch Paul’s statement on YouTube he declares that he can’t win and that his followers need to move on. That’s the same thing I’m saying. Why don’t you save some of your insults for Dr. Paul?

    Dr. Paul in his statement suggests that his followers work within the system and move on.

    Dave

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    David Duke is a racist. Some more tortured logic: David Duke is a racist. David Duke supports Ron Paul. Therefore, anyone who supports Ron Paul is a racist.

    Tom, this is specifically what I did NOT say here. I made it quite clear that Duke’s endorsement didn’t taint Paul in any way. It is Paul’s choice to voluntarily speak to the JBS which taints him.

    Dave

  • Brian

    John McCain, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama have all spoken at and are members of the Council on Foreign Relations, whose goal by their own admission is to bring about one world religion and one world government.
    Jimmy Carter had so many CFR in his staff that the press called it an old boy’s club.
    Reagan made numerous statmements about his wariness of the CFR, right up until the eve of the Republican convention when he begrudgingly accepted George Sr. as his running mate. He never spoke ill of the CFR again.
    Every president in the last 40 years has been a member of the CFR.
    I’m sure it’s all just a coincidence.
    Conspiracies happen every day in life over much more trivial things, in state elections, local politics, school board meetings, business golf deals, and even a guy driving a buddy to a drug dealer to get a fix. Yet far be it from reasonable that people in power of the wealthiest nation on earth might “conspire”, or work together towards, a common goal that would protect their interests and the billions of dollars of their supporters.
    To think that conspiracies of this nature don’t exist harkens back to 1996 when the first planet outside our solar system was found. Now they are on #287 and finding a few every month. In 1995 you were crazy to think there were other planets outside our solar system.
    The earth is flat, our solar system is unique, there are no conspiracies. You seem to fall into this category of disbelief in events around you.

  • Tony

    Dave,

    Sometimes I think writing politics on this site is completely pointless. You were obviously making the point that, while Dr. Paul is unforuntately the only candidate to speak any truth concerning the Iraq war and the economy, he totally discredits himself with his alliances with groups like this.

    While Ron Paul economically displays so many attributes and reflections of the TRUE Reagan policy, he totally elimates his viability with these ridiculous moves at a time that we direly need someone who actually understands the economy to stand up and, at the very least, present some truth to the electorate.

    Now if people want to argue that the JBS is not what you make it out to be then fine; they are entitled to that opinion.

    The attacks these people have made, focusing on the semantics of whether he is literally in the race or not, are totally missing the point.

    You present a solid, overall thesis. That the only candidates that operate and think outside of the narrow perameters of the two party platforms, end up being so eccentric to either side that they eventually discredit themselves and nothing changes. Ron Paul is meerly the latest, and most disapointing, manifestation of this.

    Imagine a republican that actually believes in small government and supply side economics and doesn’t waste his efforts pushing forth the Christian agenda and spending gobs of money on unbeneficial wars and federalized education. I thought we almost had one!

  • Frank (yeah, right)

    Ron Paul HAS NOT ended his campaign. If you can prove he has ended his campaign I’ll give you $100.

    Paul is still giving speeches all over the country. Paul’s supporters and interested people attend his speeches in greater numbers than the other “candidates”. Ron Paul’s speeches are informative, intellectually stimulating and rational. All of the other candidates are merely attempting to get into office for their own financial gain and have no interest in saving our country from the financial ruin which WE THE PEOPLE will have to pay for….not them. Has anyone considered asking the other 3 where they think the money is going to come from to pay for their govt. programs?

  • R

    Wow man! What lies!

  • Robert

    Dave,

    Yes, I can read. However, unlike you, I do not believe everything that I read. If you want to be an honest journalist, you should really learn how to check your sources a little better.

    So Dave, I will go ahead and repeat myself. RON PAUL did NOT end his campaign.

    Want to see what a legitimate source looks like? How about a press release straight from Ron Paul’s campaign? Would that do? It’s dated April 10th 2008. Please note: “Who: Republican congressman and presidential candidate Ron Paul”

    Can’t get much clearer than that can ya Dave?

    I’ll check back for your corrections.

  • Robert

    Dave,

    Here is the link to Ron Paul’s website incase you wanted to do some source checking. You do that don’t you?

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Robert take it easy man. Dave’s main point is still correct. Ron Paul never had any chance and he told his supporters to move on. That is essentially ending his candidacy. And really.. who cares. Guy’s a nutjob anyways.

  • Tony

    While Paul has not officially dropped out he acknowledges that his run is over.

    The Washington Post: March 8, 2008

    Rep. Ron Paul has ended his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination, breaking the news in a seven-minute video posted on his campaign Web site Thursday. The Texan, who ran on a libertarian platform and saw an outpouring of financial support via the Internet, tried to soothe anxious supporters by letting them know that his “campaign for freedom will continue in this new phase.” While his campaign will not formally organize events, he encouraged supporters to continue to work on behalf of a broader movement.

    “I don’t mind playing a key role in this revolution, but it has to be more than a Ron Paul revolution,” he said. “Our job now is to plan for the next phase.”

    Paul campaign spokesman Jesse Benton confirmed that the video means the candidate recognizes he will not be the nominee.

    “Winding down” is how Benton described the next phase of the campaign. “Dr. Paul acknowledges that he will not be the nominee but will continue to travel to address supporters and encourage grass-roots activism to influence the process and return the Republican Party to its traditions of limited government and personal freedom,” Benton said.

    —-

    From Ron Paul himself on cnn.com March 10

    “If you’re in a campaign for only gaining power, that’s one thing. If you’re in a campaign to influence ideas and the future of the country, the campaign is never over.”

    Two days after Sen. John McCain became the presumptive GOP nominee, Paul hinted in a video posted on YouTube that the end was near.

    “Though victory in the conventional political sense is not available in the presidential race, many victories have been achieved due to your hard work and enthusiasm. We must remember, elections are short-term efforts. Revolutions are long-term projects,” Paul said in the video.

    —–

    Again, you all totally missed his point. It’s fair to critique but at least hit the right points.

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    Ooh I’m scared of this big CFR conspiracy.

  • Brent Burk

    This was one of the most ludicrous articles I have ever read. I found myself laughing uncontrollably by the level of ignorance that was conceived in this piece.

    Apparently from reading this, the JBS is:
    -Jew hating Holocaust deniers (false),
    -a racist extension of the KKK and neo-Nazis (false),
    -anti-Catholic (false)

    Hell, everything in this article is pretty much false. You asserted the JBS liked Paul so they could spread protectionism? Even though Paul is about free markets? That’s a major contradiction. Isolationism? By your standards every country that doesn’t have an army around the world are isolationist. Those damn isolationist Japs! Hell, you even stated Paul ended his campaign. False. Sure, he won’t get the nomination, but I have to say: stick to the facts, stupid!

  • nzer

    I didn’t know a whole lot about the JBS but I do know a lot about Ron Paul, and when I hear that he supports a group this much it improves my opinion of that group immensely. I don’t think that’s what you’re trying to acheive with this article, but for the majority of readers I’d say that’s what you will get. Nice work.

    However when I did do some research on JBS, it seems to me that the only “paranoia” is to be found in their critics…

  • pleasexcusetheinterruption

    What is with all the Ron Paul supporters on this site? I guess an anti-immigration anti-abortion anti-government anti-tax candidate is too good to be true for some people. Lets go back to the 1700s.

  • Alex

    This article is on par with those that claimed that because Dr Paul was against giving a Congressional medal to Rosa Parks, he is racist. Wrong.

    If you take headlines from pro-establishment papers like WaPo as a fact, you may as well say ‘It was on TV!’

    It’s true the RP campaign is definitely lower-key now, but Dr Paul said he’ll stay in as long as his supporters want him to. I do.

    And, to quote Yogi Berra: “It ain’t over until it’s over.”

    :-)

  • http://muddythoughts.blogspot.com/2008/03/panamanchrian-candidate-summary-points.html Tannim

    Sorry, Dave, but your sourcing WaPo just proves you didn’t do your homework at all. Never rely on the Old Media in any format for the news as they tenmd to not only get it as wrong as you have here, but the spin and censor as well.

    As others have commented here, Dr. Paul has not dropped out. Every other GOP candidate has, except the RINO McCain, and if you check the link and poke around the blog I provided you’ll see why he’ll be gone soon as well.

    In your case, beating on JBS because of their spun history (spun by those that disagree with them, of course), is just a completely bogus guilt-by-association argument. Nevermind that they are correct about most things globalist–we can’t interrupt your rant with something as trivial as facts.

    Try again. You’re giving the blogosphere a bad name. A retraction for your errors is a good idea.

    BTW, if you can’t take personal attacks, then don’t make them either!

  • Scott Harmon

    As I grow older, I’m becoming less and less concerned about the hysterical labeling of various “fringe groups” and more concerned about those who do the labeling. I’ve gotten information from the JBS, and watched their videos–didn’t seem that ridiculous to me. Maybe not my cup of tea, but really, the scaremongering here? Just like all these fanatical labeling jobs over the past 30 years–people are branded racists, nationalists, Nazis, paranoids, etc.–but, do we ask, who does the branding? That is the key question.

    As I recall, some 20 years ago, there was an enormous outcry about Libertarians. Now that I have come to know them, I don’t see what all the fuss was about. People have different views about personal relationships, society, government, and so forth, so I don’t see any reason to categorically eliminate these people from the debate. What’s next: pick on the Amish? Really, I’m more keen on dissecting the labelers, the fake news outlets, the spin-meisters, the smearbund, and the propagandists. We don’t have to like the messenger, but we should be willing to listen to the message. If the response is to attack the messenger, then there is probably something afoul with the one who attacks; namely, that the attacker is not intellectually capable of responding to the message.

  • Akston

    I missed the portion of your article that detailed the actual facts which expose the JBS as a lunatic organization. From their website:

    “To bring about less government, more responsibility, and — with God’s help — a better world by providing leadership, education, and organized volunteer action in accordance with moral and Constitutional principles.”

    I’m sure there is something ominously evil there, something which is hidden by “a well developed propaganda machine, multiple front groups, and a cell-like organization”, but as I tend to dismiss grand conspiracy theories without proof, I’ll need your help here.

    Naively perhaps, I see the Birch Society as being a pro-constitution, anti-collectivist, pro-American sovereignty group bent on disseminating information regarding these issues. My source is their website. Perhaps you could direct me to specific facts which show the dangers lurking secretively beneath their seemingly patriotic front?

  • JP

    Wow, what a piece of shit article. I questioned your motives when in the first few sentences you spewed the “Paul dropped out” nonsense. I think thats called wishful thinking, not facts. You know very well that Paul has not ended his campaign. At no point did Ron Paul ever state “I am ending my bid for the presidency” or “I am stepping aside” or anything similar. Keep dreaming buddy.

  • http://or4rp.com Alex

    Just wanted to add – I just listened again to the ‘Wise Enough’ RP hip hop video [link]. I think I’ll donate another $100 soon.

  • Pablo

    Dave said:
    “As a Paul supporter, aren’t you even a little bit disappointed to find out that he has allied himself with the most irrational and deranged elements of the far right?”

    That would be your pals the neocons bubba, and your cfr pals. I was brought up hating the birchers, and for the most part with good reason. Imho they have changed, if you can find a recent (the last 15 years or so) prominent member who claims to be a racist or anti-semitic (different than anti-zionist) I would like to know Davey.

    You are always the first to call names and disparage those that you disagree with, so its no surpise to me that you would defame them as well, after all its your forte bubba.

    In my opinion (something that Davey boy will never preface his remarks with) the problem with most of the old birchers besides some of them being racist was that they did not understand communism or where it came from. It came from Wall Street, and the Rothschilds wanting to depose the Czar. As you obviously do not know your history Davey and are out of your element, it does not surprise me that your resort to your usual rude comments.

    Your about as libertarian as Orin Hatch Bubba, just my two sense worth Davey boy. From puppet dictators in Iraq for FREEDOM………you make me laugh Davey boy.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Sorry, Dave, but your sourcing WaPo just proves you didn’t do your homework at all. Never rely on the Old Media in any format for the news as they tenmd to not only get it as wrong as you have here, but the spin and censor as well.

    I also referenced Paul’s own video statement where he clearly says he is no longer trying to win the presidency. You can deny it all you want, but he did say it and he has repeated that message in speeches since the original video was made.

    In your case, beating on JBS because of their spun history (spun by those that disagree with them, of course), is just a completely bogus guilt-by-association argument. Nevermind that they are correct about most things globalist–we can’t interrupt your rant with something as trivial as facts.

    Oh come on, they thought Eisenhower was a communist. They now believe in ridiculous crap like the North American Union.

    Try again. You’re giving the blogosphere a bad name. A retraction for your errors is a good idea.

    If you can prove some errors I’ll retract them.

    Dave

  • Pablo

    I have come to the opinion that Dave is nothing more than a shill. He claims to be a libertarian, I would assume being one myself that means liberty for everyone, yet he has no compunction whatsoever in advocating installing puppet dictators in other countries. Libertarian my buttocks Dave.

    He is a friend of the FED, the CIA, and the CFR, and has said so. He thought David Rockefeller was dead last week LOL. Yet he thinks that he is the most astute well read, and insightful author on this site. He is far from it IMHO.

    Why dont you just come out and say your a shill Davey? I could respect that. You were probably in your home element at your republican caucus in Texass.

    You come across almost always as above others, as in looking down on them, self-righteous and for the most part arrogant in the extreme. Why don’t you get off your high horse and learn something.

    A month ago I pondered sending you a book via pdf that was written about the Tavistock Institute of Public relations. I changed my mind however and knew that it would be wasted on you, as your mind is about as closed as anyone I have ever encountered Davey. Enjoy your arrogance bucko.

  • Pablo

    Dave making a retraction is almost as remote a possiblity as him prefacing his remarks by saying its his opinion, almost always he states what he writes as facts. They arent. They are just opinions of a muddled politico.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    What bothers you, Pablo, is that I’m a libertarian who actually thinks about things, rather than just repeating slogans from the JBS and Alex Jones and other far-right whacko propagandists.

    For you no one can be a libertarian unless they repeat all the same mantras and have nary an original thought in their head.

    I find it ironic that those who proclaim libertarianism seem to be the first to descend into the morass of intellectual fascism, proclaiming themselves so free while their minds are utterly closed.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Over or not, RP has as much chance of getting elected president of the United States in 2008 as Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Il do…

  • Pablo

    Hmmmm,

    “Intellectual fascism”. Now there is a concept Davey. However I fail to have the intellectual prowess to conceive of such a concept. Is that per chance a school of thought? Maybe a new policital party you started?

    Who are the socialists Davey? Are they the huddled masses yearning for a free handout from the rich? Is that how you really see it? Or some self-deluded liberal agenda to share the pie brother? I will grant you that many poor people have socialist ideas, such as a socialized police force, federal and state, a socialized fire department, and even some of them oh noooooo God forbid, socialized medicine. YIKES.

    No Davey, the socialists are the ultra rich elites that I have been referring to for months, over your head I might add. They are the same group, yes I did say group, that brought you National Socialism, known and NAZI. Just ask Georgy. Divide and conquer is the name of the game. Problem, reaction, solution. Your CFR buddies chief among them. Do you know where the money came from to start communism Davey? Oh thats right Im making it up, yeah buddy sure I am.

    If you were in any more denial (that is if your not a shill), you would be totally blind. Be that as it may, perhaps since your so educated, and “well informed” perhaps you could explain to a peon like me what you mean by “right wing”. I am a novice, and I need your help Dave. What I was taught to believe about “far right wing” politics was that it usually involved a combination of rascism, intolerance, and increasingly totalitarian and un american, as in unconstitutional politics.

    Forgive me if I am wrong, but um Alex Jones (yes I know his father was in the JBS) has never been a rascist (yes I know he does not like La Raza which means The Race, and does not like illegal aliens), a bigot, or ever advocated ANYTHING but upholding the constitution of the USA. I do not recall Mr. Jones advocating, (as many of your friends in the republican party do) getting rid of Habeus Corpus, the fourth amendment, the sixth amendment, and others. I do hear him say that a cabal has taken over the reigns of our government, and it is out of control. You can call that whacko buddy, I call it OBVIOUS.

    You go boy!

  • t

    dave is this truly your opinion? and if so it makes me wonder who you really are. man that was a case of a mind fucking if ive ever red one.(these guys must be really scared of the revolution boys)rp is still in it, and you dont like it. dont listen to these sheeple. thier like branded familiars.the elite’s bitch if you will. you dont like rp because they tell you not to like rp. i bet you got a brown stain on your nose. long live ron paul long live the revolution brought to you by FTFR

  • Knee Jerk

    He only accepted an invitation to speak, not to join their ranks. He did it win votes, not to validate their views. Just because he said something nice to them doesn’t mean he embraces their entire idiological world view. One of the hallmarks of a good public speaker is to be able to speak to a crowd of people you don’t necessarely agree with and get them to agree with you. That’s what Ron Paul did.

    That Ron Paul can’t win the Republican nomination is true. However, if Ron Paul were to abandon the Republican party, as it has abandon him, and run for President as an independant, he would stand a VERY high chance of winning the Presidential election.

  • Bill

    The media attacks the JBS membership regularly.
    They never dispute their research though.
    Perhaps this is by design?

    The latest polls state that 67% of the American public does not trust the corporate owned media for the truth.

    Dave, you need other sources.

  • david

    perhaps there will be a debate with McCAIN an RON PAUL to set the record straight.If they think John can hang ;let them get it on an put this issue behind the people.We as a nation are in the mists of imploding.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave, you need other sources.

    My sources here are the JBS website and Ron Paul. Who would you suggest as being closer to the issue?

    As for Paul’s ‘campaign’, as far as I can tell, aside from going to speak to the JBS, he’s doing exactly the right thing. He’s telling his followers to carry on with their work and push their agenda and to do it within the Republican Party. I think that’s fantastic.

    Dave

  • Bill

    I was referring to the Washington post.

  • david

    the media crys an pushs the word conspiracy.would a better word be OPINION THEORY..DAVID

  • chris lawton

    REVOKE McCAIN DELEGATES

    Whereas; Senator John McCain was placed on the ballots in States without obtaining the required signatures to accept Federal matching funds.

    Whereas; Senator John McCain obtained delegates in the States after winning the primary as a result of being placed on the ballot.

    Whereas; Senator John McCain willfully withdrew from accepting Federal matching funds, therefore, exempting him from being placed on the ballot without the required petition signatures.

    Whereas; Senator John McCain deceived the people to be placed on the ballot under false pretense, claiming to accept Federal matching funds.
    Whereas; Senator John McCain did not qualify to be placed on the ballots.

    Whereas; “John McCain is a campaign finance criminal by violating the very regulations he championed, Jane Hamsher commented while delivering the complaint. He believes the law is for someone else, not him. It’s the height of hypocrisy.” Firedoglake.com

    Whereas; The McCain campaign incorrectly stated that McCain is doing what Dean did when he withdrew from public financing in his presidential bid, but they have the facts wrong. Dean did not use the promise of matching funds as collateral for a loan. As required, Dean obtained permission from the Commission to withdraw from matching funds before any funds were disbursed. Also, Dean spent resources to get his name on the ballot after withdrawing, unlike McCain who had free ballot access in some states because he pledged to accept matching funds.

    Whereas; In order to receive matching funds, John McCain signed a binding agreement with the FEC to accept spending limits and to abide by the conditions of receiving those funds. The FEC makes clear that any request to withdraw from the agreement must be granted by the FEC. In other words, McCain can’t just unilaterally withdraw. FEC Chairman David Mason made this clear in a letter to McCain advising him that the law requires the FEC to approve his request to withdraw from his contract.

    Whereas; The FEC Chairman David Mason sent McCain’s campaign a strongly worded letter (PDF), letting them know that McCain didn’t consider his word on accepting public financing binding. The FEC was not about to let him off the legal hook. He ignored the letter, secured a loan to obtain public financing and then leu past the public financing law spending limits…and he’s still raising campaign cash, too.

    Whereas; By FEC rulings, the McCain campaign does not allow withdrawal of matching funds. It already violated a key condition for being let out of the program – pledging matching funds as collateral for a private loan. McCain obtained a $4 million line of credit — drew $2,971,697 from it – and documents make clear that the promise of public financing was used to secure his loan.

    Whereas; The FEC has (1) reason to believe, pursuant to U.S.C. §437g(a)(2), that Senator John McCain and the McCain Campaign have committed a violation of Chapter 96 of Title 26 and of the Commission’s rules, and requests an investigation; and (2) pursuant to 26 U.S.C. §9040(c), petition the appropriate U.S. District Court for injunctive relief to implement and enforce the provisions of Chapter 96 against Senator McCain and the McCain Campaign.

    Whereas; Senator John McCain has the obligation to abide by and respect the election laws.

    Whereas; Senator John McCain has the obligation to respect and honor the integrity of the Republican party.

    Whereas; The Republican party has the responsibility and obligation to hold any member of its party accountable for any violations of the law in any state.

    Whereas; The Republican party will hold anyone in the party accountable for violations of law so as to maintain the integrity of the Republican party.

    Therefore,
    Be it Resolved:
    We the people of the Republican party of Washington State hereby revoke Senator John McCain from receiving any delegate votes from any county, state, or national convention in the year 2008. All States are invited to do likewise.

  • chris lawton
  • The Gibbernator

    “Dave making a retraction is almost as remote a possiblity as him prefacing his remarks by saying its his opinion, almost always he states what he writes as facts.”

    Pablo making any sense is almost as remote a possibility as most of the insane conspiracy theories he trumpets having any basis in fact.

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    I will be the first one to admit that mixed messages have come from the Ron Paul Campaign as to his standings. A large part of that can be blamed on the influence of the MSM, who act as though he is crazy for thinking that he has a chance. Everyone is quick to label Ron Paul and his supporters as fanatics. So, aren’t we labeled as even more fanatical in believing in him, despite the fact that he and his supporters persevere, determined to write him in ourselves on the ballot in November, if need be.

    However, to clear up any confusion, one only has to go to his official site, and see that not only does the Banner Ad talk about winning delegates for your precinct for Ron Paul, but also that “Now There Are Two” with Ron Paul and John McCain is boldly and prominently displayed on the site.

    Also, if you click on my site, you will see, all the way to the right, that Ron Paul was on Neil Cavuto’s site as recently as last night. Neil even brings up how the MSM has deliberately tried to make him a fringe candidate from the very beginning and ignored him. This YouTube video is definitely worth watching, as Ron Paul articulates a lot of his campaign resolutions and a lot of the issues troubling our econonomy and our country.

    And here is also an Idaho Falls, Idaho article from yesterday, talking about Ron Paul supporters protesting the IRS on April 15th. Ron Paul will be campaigning in Twin Falls on April 25th.

    I have more campaign updates, if necessary, including his phenomenal success in Pennsylvania and the tremendous support he is receiving on the campaign trail.

    Let’s try to please embrace his message and evaluate the critical issues which he is bringing to the forefront of everyone’s minds, as opposed to nit picking him for appearances and trying to tear him down for every little thing we can think of in a slanted attempt to assassinate his campaign.

    Thank you.

  • NH

    This article is bogus and needs to be deleted.
    Dave please retract right now… or lose all credibility as a writer.

  • NH

    Why is it a terrible mistake to endorse the JBS? You are fraught with paranoia…they are grounded in reality….perhaps you need a dose of that yourself?

    The JBS is excellent and none of their research is ever wrong, so what’s up with that?

    Dave look at me, sweetie, YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
    Many people cannot.

    But please leave the paranoia about who the JBS is at the door. They are wonderful people and are very active in NH.

  • AG in ID

    This article is sooo far off. I’m guessing the author has done nothing but listen to the main stream media for all his information.

    Of course the masses will believe this stuff too, because it was written. Never thinking to go to a reliable source to fact check this guy’s opinions.

    This is a typical example of the dumbing down of Americans.

  • Clavos

    This is a typical example of the dumbing down of Americans.

    …as is the blind support of a candidate who has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the election…

  • Bill

    Clavos: There was a time in our nation’s history where citizen’s supported candidates because of issues, not just because they could “win” or not.

    This idea that only the candidates that the media tells us can win should be supported is the MAIN reason this country is in the toilet, and the main reason that the government is running roughshod over its citizens.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Dave, you need other sources.

    My sources here are the JBS website and Ron Paul. Who would you suggest as being closer to the issue?

    As for Paul’s ‘campaign’, as far as I can tell, aside from going to speak to the JBS, he’s doing exactly the right thing. He’s telling his followers to carry on with their work and push their agenda and to do it within the Republican Party. I think that’s fantastic.

    Dave

  • Clavos

    Clavos: There was a time in our nation’s history where citizen’s supported candidates because of issues, not just because they could “win” or not.

    Not in my lifetime (more than half of the last century and all of this one to date), they haven’t.

    Americans vote their pocketbooks; the candidate who promises the most, wins.

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    Let’s not forget about the other two candidates in history who didn’t have “a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the election”:

    Abraham Lincoln

    Bill Clinton

  • Clavos

    Let’s not forget about the other two candidates in history who didn’t have “a snowball’s chance in hell of winning the election”:

    Abraham Lincoln

    Bill Clinton

    Wrong on both counts.

    Both were mainstream (as opposed to fringe) candidates.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Bill:

    Remember that the US is the second largest country in the world that elects its government by means of a completely free democratic process (the largest is India). Like it or not, with such a huge population the mass media is far and away the best and most efficient way of disseminating information about political candidates. As remarkable as the grassroots efforts of the Ron Paul campaign have been, no other method can even come close in terms of effectiveness.

    That may change in time as the internet becomes a more significant campaign tool, and history may come to regard the Paul ’08 campaign as a pioneer in this.

    As irresponsible as they can sometimes be, blaming the media for Paul’s failure to win the GOP nomination is unrealistic. They respond to market trends just as any other business does. If Paul’s ideas really did have that much mass appeal, believe me, you’d have been hearing a lot more about them on TV and radio and in the papers.

  • Pablo

    Gibbernator,

    Did you write that yourself? How clever!

  • Pablo

    Oh and Gibbernator?

    I do know that the post you referred to was a bit over your head, ask one of your compatriots to expalin it for you. Then perhaps you will not feel such rancor towards me. I will try being more simple for the simpletons in the future Gibbernator. :)
    .

  • shane scheid

    you may represent a “sinister cabal of superior writers” but the most eloquent and articulate of writing can not compensate for poor research. lies are still lies, nevermind who tells them.

    ive me a shout next time you need help researching a Ron Paul article. Good writing is even better with real facts

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    As far as Abraham Lincoln goes, he had so few delegates, it was considered a joke that he would even attempt to get the nomination. Sound familiar? Yet, because of a freak turn of events, he obviously got the nomination and won the election.

    Bill Clinton was even more interesting. No one was paying attention to the Democrats at all, because Ross Perot, another fringe candidate, had Bush 41 on the ropes and was totally dominating the election. Ross Perot achieved so much support and recognition early on that he realized he might actually win the race, and put his campaign on suspension. When he wasn’t convinced that Clinton could quite take Bush out, he came back in. Most Republicans claim that Perot stole votes from Bush and caused Clinton to win. To this day, I hear that. However, in my personal opinion, Bush was going to lose that election no matter who ran against him, as so many people were furious with him, and were voting “against Bush” as opposed to “for Clinton” or “for Perot”. It’s my personal speculation (obviously one can not document theories about altnerate realities) that if Perot had not come back in, Clinton would have simply won by a larger margin. And, just to set the record straight, so that the neutrality of my perspective can be placed properly, I did vote for Bush 41 both times that he ran.

    As far as Dr. Dreadful’s comments are concerned, have you not been paying attention? Ron Paul’s support has been incredible. He raised $6 Million in one day, over the internet. That has never been done before, and, in fact, is being examined by both major political parties as a best practice and a model for the future. He apparently has the most donations from the military families over every other candidate. Even if you subscribe to the contradictory polls of two or three other sites, Ron Paul is still only second to Obama. Ron Paul has secured more donations from military families than John McCain, Billary, Huckabee, and the rest of the former or “suspended” candidates. Also, looking at the Fox voting polls. Ron Paul annihilated Giuiliani on multiple occasions. AND Ron Paul’s campaign was significantly more solvent than Giuiliani’s. The latest campaign finance filings showed Giuiliani in debt and not having paid significant members of his staff for one month, as opposed to Ron Paul, who is in the black, with no debt. And Fox News decided not to put Ron Paul in one of the critical debates right before a primary, as they said they didn’t have room for some of the fringe candidates. Yet, they allowed Giuliani to participate. Giuiliani had just been beaten by Ron Paul in a primary and Giuiliani dropped out completely soon afterwards.

    That hardly sounds like someone whose ideas don’t have mass appeal. Quit drinking the Kool-Aid, Dr. Dreadful.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    I think the Lincoln comparison is fairly apt. Lincoln did come into the convention with very few delegates, but it was in Chicago, so he had lots of local supporters and they crowded the hall in huge numbers and shouted down Seward’s name whenever it was mentioned so that eventually Lincoln got the nomination after a number of ballots.

    What the Ron Paul supporters have tried to do at some of the district conventions is very much like what Lincoln’s folks did in Chicago, and I imagine they’ll keep trying the same tactics as long as they can get away with it, in the hopes of stealing the nomination as Lincoln did. Of course Lincoln, despite his homely appearance, was a hell of a lot more charismatic and a better public speaker than Paul – that might make a difference.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    That hardly sounds like someone whose ideas don’t have mass appeal. Quit drinking the Kool-Aid, Dr. Dreadful.

    I don’t believe I’ve ever drunk Kool-Aid, George. I prefer Crystal Light.

    I never said that Paul’s ideas don’t have mass appeal – just that it’s not as much mass appeal as has been trumpeted by his supporters. I acknowledge that his campaign has been remarkable. But all this cash, all this apparent mass support just did not translate when it counted – into votes.

    You can’t invoke all those millions of dollars raised and all those supposed millions of supporters and then, when they didn’t materialize at the ballot box, claim that the media is somehow to blame.

  • Pablo

    Dread,

    Nope the voting machines are to blame, however most people are in denial.

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    Just to add fuel to the fire

  • JD

    “The idea that America is threatened by a huge, covert, and many-headed conspiracy is selling like hotcakes.”

    It’s not just America. The entire world is threatened by the designs and desires of a small group of sociopaths. They hide behind governments and corporations.

  • Dirt

    Dave, you say the JBS is racist and anti-Semitic, yet they have at least one black on their Speakers Bureau and at least one member of their National Council is Jewish. So, why the smears?
    Also, JBS members don’t necessarily believe that Eisenhower was a communist agent. JBS founder Robert Welch made that comment in a private letter. Welch later wrote a book (The Politician), which elaborated on Ike’s career, and how the communist movement benefitted from Ike’s activities.

  • Pablo

    I wonder if you Dave are aware of a new bood writting by a CFR hack named Philip Bobbit entitled “Terror and Consent”

    In the book he basically lays out the case that the nation state is dead, and must be replaced by a global government run by multi-national corporations. Surprise surprise.

    From one of the book reviewers at Amazon.com about this book:

    “To save you the time required to read it. Here’s a synopsis.

    The premise of the book is that we are in the midst of a transition to a market-based global order. This means that the nation-state (and even the entire notion of public governance) will be replaced by corporate surrogates (via outsourcing) operating on a global level. The basis for the legitimacy of this new order will be that it offers individuals more choices than ever before (the political parallel to a fully stocked supermarket). However, its emergence will be at the expense of minimal safety nets and communitarian efforts.”

    “This book is a blatant attempt to indoctrinate the ignorant into believing that we must give up our liberty and dismantle the U.S. Constitution to be safe. This of course is an outright lie. This book is biased towards a Globalist world view and reads like it was written by someone who had the entire Bilderberg Group and Council on Foreign Relations looking over his shoulder as he was writing.

    To the remaining patriots out there and those who love freedom and justice, make no mistake. Mr. Philip Bobbitt is an enemy of the American people and an enemy of freedom.”

    And from the Guardian.co.uk dated 4/9/08:

    “Information chips implanted in the brain. Electromagnetic pulse weapons. The middle classes becoming revolutionary, taking on the role of Marx’s proletariat. The population of countries in the Middle East increasing by 132%, while Europe’s drops as fertility falls. “Flashmobs” – groups rapidly mobilised by criminal gangs or terrorists groups.

    This is the world in 30 years’ time envisaged by a Ministry of Defence team responsible for painting a picture of the “future strategic context” likely to face Britain’s armed forces. It includes an “analysis of the key risks and shocks”. Rear Admiral Chris Parry, head of the MoD’s Development, Concepts & Doctrine Centre which drew up the report, describes the assessments as “probability-based, rather than predictive”.

    Sure Bubba and I’m the tin foil hat guy, you go boy.

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    Well, voting ballot machines aside (and there are definitely some concerns there), the problem is that most people vote like lemmings. They wait to see who the media will cover after many candidates have dropped out. Or they watch to see how the first few states vote in the first few primaries, and act according to how the dust settles.

    I can’t tell you how many times I have heard that “I’m voting for the lesser of two evils” or “I’m voting for the most electable, even though I disagree with him.” or “I’m voting against ___ .” The one I have heard the most this year is, “I think Ron Paul has the most integrity, and is the best candidate, and I agree with all of his ideas, but he can’t win, so I’m voting for McCain”. And then there’s “I’m voting for ___, because he’s going to win.”

    This is real. This is how people vote. Where I work, for some time now, we have had the joke “All Obama… All the Time.” And you don’t even have to be a fringe candidate to be ignored. For the past several months, it’s been about the Democratic Party Run. It’s only been the past week or so that McCain started to get press again. And, back in ’92, no one paid attention to Bill Clinton until he played his sax on Arsenio… AFTER Perot dropped out.

    One piece of data which I would be interested to see, but I don’t see how it is possible… what percentage of Ron Paul voters also donated… versus how many people voted for another candidate, yet didn’t donate, didn’t campaign, didn’t attend a rally, didn’t even believe in him/her.

    Let’s also not forget how consumed people are with “tricky manipulation”, such as Republicans voting in Democratic Primaries to jinx one or both of the Democratic Candidates. And I’ve got hard core Democrats telling me that if their candidate doesn’t get the Nomination, they are going to jump ship for the first time and vote for whoever the Republican nominee is. Gosh, I can’t think of a BETTER reason to get someone like Ron Paul in the running.

    This is how people vote. This is how people act. This is how people evaluate candidates and make decisions. That’s the real world. And you don’t have to be a conspiracy theorist to notice this. In fact, I’d wager that most conspiracy theorists don’t even catch these trends.

  • spinnikerca

    Well, I don’t know much about the John Birch Society except that they were considered farther right than, say, my Grandfather (whom I considered rather far to the right.) I hadn’t heard anything about conspiracies, and given that people say the same thing about Ron Paul supporters (of whom I am one) I tend to take that with a grain of salt.

    HOWEVER, I think Ron Paul doesn’t feel the need to approve of everything a person or group does, to approve greatly of something they do. I read his letter text somewhere else and he was commenting on a great Constitutionalist program they have. Frankly, I think the Constitution is the touchstone we need, at this point, and if the John Birch Society is a group of strict Constitutionalists, I can’t see how they can be all bad.

    There is that 1st Amendment, and the 4th, and the 13th and 14th….

  • blakmira

    You might want to take a look at the video filmed just last week at Penn State in Pennsylvania of Ron Paul speaking to the crowds. Directly behind him is a HUGE block of 4 HUGE signs that clearly say RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008.

    Gee, maybe Ron Paul didn’t notice these signs when he walked up to the podium or they were placed there surreptitiously by delegates and supporters who haven’t yet “given up” on his run for president.

    Sounds like the author of this blog may have hit his little head on the third rail and is suffering from delusions and/or amnesia. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]

  • aksmith

    Dave – I think you’re drawing much too much from Ron speaking to the JBS. I find the JBS to be an organization I would never want to be allied with. But that’s me. That being said, when nobody would listen to Ron or take him seriously, the JBS did. Alex Jones did. When the mainstream media ignored him, marginalized him, made sure ratings winning interviews turned into “web exclusives,” the Alex Jones’ and JBS’s of th world still kept paying attention and reporting on Dr. Paul.

    Much like Murray Rothbard hung around with some very non-libertarian friends at the end of his life, Ron has been driven to the fringe in a way by the lack of mainstream coverage.

    And here is another thing to think about. Either Ron will go and tell them what he truly believes without embracing any of their fringier agenda (which I think likely) or he may address them and castigate them for their odder beliefs (highly unlikely.) But giving Ron the benefit of the doubt that he is repaying those who didn’t treat him like a loon, why would you publish this before he has even had the chance to make the speech?

  • Lumpy

    People posting here re either JBS shills or grimly ignorant of the JBS and its methods. The are everywhere behind hundreds of front groups all of which push the same reactionary agenda. they are so deeply involved iin the Paul campaign that he has effectively become their puppet. His speech is just payback to his masters. He’s as much their whore as bush is for big oil.

  • http://www.youtube.com/JiveDadson Jive Dadson

    For decades I’ve been reading about what a bunch of wackos the John Birch Society is. I assumed it was true. When I read their web page, I find that if they are wackos, they sure have learned to hide it by appearing to be intelligent, reasonable, and well-informed. Maybe they are wackos. If so, Ron Paul will try to set them straight.

    You see, Dr. Paul will talk to whoever wants to listen and can draw a crowd. What is to be gained by talking only to people who agree with you on every subject? There is absolutely nothing wrong with addressing the John Birch Society, the National Socialist Party (if there is such a thing), or anybody else. Ron Paul’s message is the message of Freedom, Prosperity, and Peace. Everyone needs to hear it. Particularly the wackos.

  • http://www.ronpaul2008.com You have my IP, find out

    The writer of this article, I hate you. I don’t hate many things except TV remotes that seem to hide themselves in akward places, but I truly, hate you.

    Supposedly you think that freedom is crazy, maybe so.

    Video

  • EBaker

    Add this piece to the ever growing uninformed, factless dung-heap of anti-Ron Paul/ anti-JBS opinion. this author, like the rest of worthless freedom haters, would rather take pot-shots at people and organizations that care about the future of America than to do the work of verifying the accuracy and validity of the content of the messeges. Dave, if this is you attempt at fair and balances reporting, you’re a freakin idiot. if this is your audition for FAUX or Clinton News Network, i love your chances.

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Comrade Nalle- Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, like Dwight Eisenhower – as exposed at the time by JBS?

    We must not allow the communists and their Manchurian candidate to compromise the purity of our precious bodily fluids.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    It’s a shame that the reputation of a (by many accounts) thoroughly decent Congressman will likely be forever tarnished by the legions of the flying-mammal-feces insane who’ve attached themselves to his presidential campaign. Their reality-denying antics have been a huge contributing factor to his candidacy not being taken all that seriously.

    I’m betting that after the dust dies down* on the second Wednesday in November and either Clinton, McCain or Obama is confirmed as the USA’s 44th President, some Paul supporters will still be insisting that he won and referring to him as ‘President Paul’.

    [raises umbrella against inevitable thrown poop]

    * If the dust dies down. Repeat of 2000, anyone? 😀

  • http://www.morethings.com/log Al Barger

    Dr Dreadful- It’s not his supporters that hurt Paul’s reputation, but his own actions. Going to the JBS is HIM, not his followers.

    Far worse by my accounting is the years of ugly newsletters he put out under his name. He apparently made a good lot of cash income gladly renting his name for ugly racist nonsense. His claims of ignorance about this in the last few months only add the stigma of LYING to whatever you want to call .

  • Clavos

    Dr Dreadful- It’s not his supporters that hurt Paul’s reputation, but his own actions. Going to the JBS is HIM, not his followers.

    I dunno.

    How many of the commenters on just this thread express enthusiastic support of the JBS?

    I agree with you that RP carries a lot of unsavory baggage, but his supporters (at least those who have posted on this and other threads here on BC) are a creepy bunch, too.

    Birds of a feather, mayhap?

  • Scott Harmon

    Wow, Dave, you lost me again. Some wayward comment that the JBS folks believe in ridiculous crap like the North American Union.

    Hate to inform you of this, but designs on a North American Union are far from conspiratorial. I believe the scheming for such an alliance goes back to the colonial days, but the historians can correct me on this. It does go way back, to be sure. And, it goes both ways, for designs by Mexico to “re-take” parts of the USA. There’s no conspiracy here. Nothing hard to believe.

    Now, I see you have read a website on JBS. I’ve seen videos, read literature, looked at articles, and so forth. As I said, it is not really my cup of tea, but there are some arguments that are good for the debate. In particular, the ones that discuss “national sovereignty” are the most intriguing. In the face of what we have now, with the U.S.-Anglo alliance essentially trying to rule the world, which version of reality is more insane? The one that believes the world can all be one big happy family, sharing the same goals, or the one that believes in a multi-state world, competing and allying with different nation-states? As far as I can tell, the “Wilsonian” New World Order crowd is about as far afield as one can go. Many in this latter camp do want to amalgamate as many nations as possible into NATO-style alliances and Anglo-centric “unions.” JBS and other Constitutionalists are in the former camp; their model of governance is more prevalent throughout the world.

    Now, I realize that branding concerned Constitutionalists and pro-nationalists (not militarists) has been the hot topic. But the branders are often self-interested–heavily invested in running multi-national corporations, news outlets, and so forth.

    No, I think our lens has to be shifted back onto the New World Order fanatics, for all the illusions that they are creating, the half-baked theories they are tossing around, the damage they are inflicting here and abroad, and the huge amounts of money they are taking from the public to fulfill their ideological, idiotic schemes.

    Focus on the real nut-jobs, please.

  • Thomas

    You are flat out wrong.

    Facts

    Terrible reporting job. Your arguments against JBS are incorrect. It’s not even worth my time to spend trying to debunk your argument. All anyone has to do is a little research to see how far you are off the mark.

    The John Birch Society is a conservative American political organization. It was founded in Indianapolis, Indiana in 1958 to fight what it saw as growing threats to the Constitution of the United States, especially a suspected Communist infiltration of the United States government, and to support individual rights and private property.

    Core values

    The John Birch Society is anti-totalitarian, particularly anti-Socialist, anti-Communist, and leans libertarian. It generally seeks to limit the powers of government and strenuously defends what it sees as the original intention of the U.S. Constitution, rooted in Judeo-Christian principles. It idealizes the Founding Fathers as patriotic anti-Communists. The John Birch Society opposes collectivism, including wealth redistribution, economic interventionism, Socialism, Communism, and Fascism.

    …Sounds good to me… What’s your problem with that?

    The John Birch Society opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act in the belief that it was in violation of the 10th Amendment to the United States Constitution and overstepped the rights of individual states to make laws regarding Civil Rights.

    OK, so maybe they weren’t right about everything… But, at least they acknowledged that laws regarding Civil Rights were needed (as long as it was done by the state…

    The John Birch Society is against a unified “one world government”, and has an illegal immigration reduction view on immigration reform. It has opposed the United Nations, NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA, and other free-trade agreements with other nations, believing them to be destructive to American principles, the economy, freedom and national sovereignty.

    Gee, this sounds a bit like Ron Paul’s views, doesn’t it?

    Anti-Jewish, racist, anti-Mormon, anti-Masonic, and religious groups criticized the group’s acceptance of Jews, nonwhites, Masons, the large number of Mormons in the Society (Ezra Taft Benson, a leader in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, encouraged people to join it), and Welch’s alleged feminist, ecumenical, and evolutionary ideas.

    So, there was acceptance of Jews and nonwhites in the JBS? This obviously shoots bullet holes in your accusations…

    I can add more and more… Please get your facts straight before you rant and rave about stuff you obviously know nothing about…

    Next time you feel like ranting and raving, why don’t you spend time writing about how Obama goes to a racist church for 20 years and calls his own grandmother a “typical” white person.

    Wow, Ron Paul is speaking at the JBS. Yawn… such a big deal…

  • Clavos

    It has opposed…NAFTA, CAFTA, and the FTAA, and other free-trade agreements with other nations, believing them to be destructive to American principles, the economy, freedom and national sovereignty.

    …Proving they don’t know squat about macroeconomics.

  • http://www.alphavilledecoder.org Jahfre Fire Eater

    Some writers just know a negative Ron Paul story will bring readers to their site in droves. It is a favorite tactic of those with click-driven egos.

    You can see more about this in my recent article at nolan chart dot com.
    Jahfre Fire Eater

  • steve

    hello dave i had one of the 1st comments submitted above as im #11 as im sure you read what i said and have to this point ignored my response i mean i just want you to take a minute and answer my remarks as in my opinion this is the main thrust of dr. paul i mean take a deep breath and just try and answer my questions as if you do i mean this deep sixxxes a lot of this verbal spewwage going on here to this point what do ya say can ya at least give me a response sir, i mean belly up to the bar dude as i think i gave you some ligit beef to knaw on here, enlighten me sir, regards steve

  • steve

    im sorry dave but im just a poor southern illinois boy and i desire your astute opinion as oh my godddd i think im leaning to your thought process oh my gosh the jbs ohhhhhhhhhh what a chamber of horror as vincent price said in the late 60s thrillers my god i need to reprocess my upper medulla and think that your way is better my gosh i feel the comfort ozzzing all about my body my god ron paul is evil the jbs lover that he is as he wants to be swirllling and twirlling with them folks its his only objective of life as a 30 year congressman im sure this is his wants and needs oh my godddddddddddddd what a god forsaken man, your right dave heh heh ive been converted to your thought process dr. paul is evil and needs a good scolding what a naughty boy he has been dave im so glad you have rescued me from the evil dr. paul, once again im #11 on your chart one of your 1st bonding buddys as im here to hang with ya dave as i love your wisdom and look forward to more of your verbal spewwage,regards steve

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Steve, if all you got from this is that I think Paul is ‘evil’ that may explain why I didn’t bother to respond to you – that and your complete unfamiliarity with punctuation and paragraphs.

    Jahfire, positive articles about Paul will draw readers and commenters too. So will articles about guns and abortion. Hell, most anything posted to BC will draw comments if it’s at all interesting.

    Dave

  • steve

    hey dave im a classic 50 year old delight i mean im glad you answered me hey im no computer expert on puncuation i mean dont even try and pull that lame game my main deal with you babe is im not trying to create a beef with ya just answer me a couple simple questions that ive asked ya on ron paul taking on general petreaus and his massive popularity kicking now with many young folks i mean dave you have not hit on my main objectives which is how you cats try to get off the beaten path, once again read what i have written ya please respond hey i know why you cant respond because you cant in your right mind being ethical cant answer heh heh once again please answer my 1st question to ya #11 response its not about evil as is that the only thing you can spin with very lame dave please get to the meat of the matter

  • STM at the arse-hole end of the world

    PETI: “Lets go back to the 1700s”.

    Pre- or post-revolution??

    Because, you know, if it’s pre, then it’s obvious you and your ilk are just agents of the CFR, which runs the world with its British equivalent, Chatham House.

    We are talking one-world government here. Nothing to do with a North American Alliance.

    The anglosphere is coming (or has it already arrived?), and Paul’s supporters are right to fear it. It spells the end for the constitution.

    Worse … imagine bein’ under the yoke of that dang Queen agin!

  • steve

    hey dave i think your underwear might be a tad tight and maybe ya need to be laid brother as i got a little talking heads from the 80s a little popsicle and she was from the twin album talking heads sand in the vaseline maybe ya need need to listen to this 200 wpc of vintage juice of a pioneer sx-1250 from 1977 it could serve ya well and give ya a better outlook on life sir and the only better scene is a little voodoo child by jimi hendrix as im sure the redneck punk you are would enjoy that one as jimi can roast the strings as im sure that would make you sleep better. some times a good reaming of jams from hendrixxxx can serve ya well baby,regards steve

  • Pablo

    Steve,

    Your great, I like your writing, more please.

  • STM at the arse-hole end of the world

    “hey dave i think your underwear might be a tad tight”.

    Dave, seriously, how many times have I told you that a bloke your age should make the shift from thongs and Y-fronts to boxer shorts.

    Now people are starting to notice. There’s no value in sitting around in front of a computer giving yourself a continuous wedgie.

    Also, Scott’s suggestion about Jim Hendrix ain’t a bad one. I also recommend Led Zeppelin IV, and the Immigrant Song from the third album just prior to writing a story for BC.

    I amp up on that stuff just before I go for a surf, but it works for anything :)

  • STM at the arse-hole end of the world

    All avilable on iTunes, BTW

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    Guys, we’re slinging a lot of mud here and getting unnecessarily nasty. There’s no reason we have to lower ourselves in such a way.

    Ron Paul is about fiscal responsibility and solvency, both for our government and for this great country’s citizens. He’s about accountability, adhering to the Constitution, and making tough decisions, tough change, not just telling us what we want to hear in order to encourage us to vote for him. In fact, the most courageous men and women usually tells us what we DON’T want to hear.

    But the overall story is much better than I think it is being interpreted. Basically, if you’re for less taxes, less wasteful government spending, less national debt, a healthier economy, and retaining your Liberty, then that’s all that really matters. Ron Paul and all of his “wacko supporters” open you with welcome arms.

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    I meant “welcome you with open arms:. Need…coffee…now…

  • Mike

    It’s ridiculous how foolish commentaries like this insult the JBS, and then go on to promote corrupt incompetent status-quo politicians like Obama, McCain and Hillary that have created:

    *a $9 trillion debt,

    *$60 trillion in entitlements that the government will never be able to fulfill

    *a falling dollar

    *a manufacturing base that is moving to China,

    *20 million illegal immigrants that ignore the country’s immigration laws,

    *real median income that is LOWER today than it was back in 1971 for the 25-34 demographic (can you believe that wages have actually gone DOWN for young people since 1971!? It’s outrageous!)

    *an economy that the comptroller general of the United States -America’s top accountant-, David Walker, says is facing total financial collapse:

    The status quo politicians that this blog promotes have brought America to the brink of collapse and continue to perpetuate the bankruptcy, and it dares insult the JBS.

    Watch this video about the Comptroller General of the United States, David Walker, warning of total financial collapse due to irresponsible policies enacted by government for the last 4 decades.

  • Mik

    The John Birch Society must be crazy for not wanting to bankrupt the next generation.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Steve, I’m all of one year younger than you are and I’m pretty sure they didn’t invent paragraphs and punctuation in 1977, causing you to miss out in high school. I can’t read more than about two lines of your posts without getting a headache. Rewrite your questions one to a line and I’ll try to answer them.

    STM, I just got a new direct drive turntable for my vinyl. There are some things I’ve got which just aren’t available in any digital format, so I’m going to transfer them from vinyl to the computer myself.

    And Mike. Good job hitting the high points of the JBS agenda of protectionism, nativism and isolationism. It’s a trifecta.

    And BTW, your figures on income are pure cherrypicking. That one age group has remained relatively even, while younger and older workers have seen dramatic increases of income. You also fail to mention that the slight income decline applies only to men and not women. Even adjusting for inflation and the decline in the value of the dollar in recent years real income overall has increased almost 50% since 1971.

    So don’t believe everything the JBS feeds you, shill.

    Dave

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    Dave, do you have a link with product info on that direct drive turntable for your pc?

  • lulz

    hey Dave wasn’t that a personal attack just now?

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    George, it’s a Stanton T.90 USB. It’s got very good reviews. Haven’t had a chance to hook it up yet, though. You can get stats and info and reviews on CNET.

    Dave

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    lulz @ #104:

    Borderline. I’ll allow it… Calling someone a shill if that’s what Dave reasonably perceives them to be is not a personal attack.

    But I’m watching.

    [Assistant Comments Editor]

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dave:

    “They’re [JBS/Ron Paul] still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed”

    How is the above quote from your “Opinion” responsible journalism?

    Have you meet each and every member of the JBS or Ron Paul to confirm this “fact?”

    Did you spend any time on the JBS website? Try this page.

    How can you explain a Jewish member of the JBS national council? How do you explain the many minorities on the national staff and support of minority scholarship since 1958?

    As for a Constitutional foreign policy advocated by the JBS and Ron Paul, what specifically do you find objectionable about:

    “Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.”

    Do you know the identity of the principal author of the UN Charter (who also was the first secretary general of the UN)? Convicted Soviet agent Alger Hiss.

    The JBS knew the UN was bad for America from the start. Funny how yesterdays “kook” is today’s genius.

    Lastly, stop cherry picking on the “angry” responses to your hit piece. If you are going to respond, try answering some tough questions for a change.

    -Robert

  • Danni

    You are incorrect in all your assertions regarding the John Birch Society. It is a multi-racial, multi-religion organization that is committed to freedom for all. Before you make attacks with typical leftist propaganda, you should research your topic. Communism and socialism are not dead, far from it, they are alive in well in Washington. One need only read recent legislation to realize that government bureacrats wants to control every aspect of our lives. Take hate-crime legislation, proposed forced government education of our children, forced innoculations, gun laws etc.

    For a journalist, you are quite dishonest or blind!

  • Pablo

    Robert,

    Dave cannot answer your question with any verifiable degree regarding raciscm in the JBS, for the simple reason that racism is not one of their platforms.

    Honoring the US Constitution, resisting global government, exposing the CFR, and the NAU are.

    So instead of debating the issues, Dave, as he usually does, makes a denigrating statement and cannot for the life of him back it up.

    I do believe he is a shill. He acts like a libertarian only to the extent that he can obsfucate others, by fooling them, and always siding with the globalists and the CFR.

    I was fooled by him for awhile, and could not reconcile his so called libertarianism, with his obvious love for not only the CFR, the CIA, but also the neo-cons and invading a sorvereign nation without cause. Now surprise surpsise he is becoming one of John McCains biggest supporters!

    Don’t let him fool you, he is imho nothing more than a shill.

  • Danni

    article is propaganda. Go to the JBS website and read the truth. This author is blind to reality.

  • http://www.badfaithinsurance.org getalife

    You have to remember Paul is sly, things are not always what they seem, and with any luck he’ll be able to steer these rebels into having a real cause. btw, using ad hominem adjectives to fill up your article to almost 2 pages only backfires to discredit one person, the author. Remember unintended consequences.

  • Pablo

    “using ad hominem adjectives to fill up your article to almost 2 pages only backfires to discredit one person”

    Davey? Nahhh he would never do that. Cmon

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Listen, there ARE many things in the surface agenda of the JBS which I find perfectly reasonable. It’s the underlying paranoia and obsession with conspiracies which I find troubling.

    And the fact is that they ARE nativists and isolationists and a lot of that is based on a xenophobia which is at its heart racist. They may not be racist against blacks (today anyway), but they are certainly hostile to Mexicans and other immigrant groups.

    As for my ‘ad hominem adjectives’ whatever the hell that means, go look up the meaning of the term and get back to me.

    Dave

  • Domino

    All you’re trying to do is yell “racism” over and over and associate Paul’s and JBS’s name with that. I’ve read this article twice now and it’s really apparent that you’re someone with a serious chip on his shoulder. I kind of feel sorry for you, since you’re likely a middle aged man with somewhat of a toddler’s brain.

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dave:

    Thank you for changing your position. A small step, but a start.

    “It’s the underlying paranoia and obsession with conspiracies which I find troubling.”

    Such statement is far different from the original memes you directed at Ron Paul and ALL John Birch Society Members. Remember your own words: “They’re [JBS/Ron Paul] still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed”

    So can we take your post #113 as a retraction of your initial libel? That would be appropriate. I am a JBS member and, although you called me (a person you have never met) a racist, I forgive you.

    Now lets see if we can take another step.

    Your new position is that ALL (again, an irresponsible blanket statement) JBS members “ARE nativists and isolationists and a lot of that is based on a xenophobia” and that “they are certainly hostile to Mexicans and other immigrant groups.”

    Are you aware that a senior member of the JBS National field staff, the guy in charge of the entire southwest area of the country, is a second generation member of a immigrant family from Mexico?

    I have circulated JBS petitions askng Congress to secure the border (a major national security issue) and refuse to grant Amnesty. Over 90% of the passers by would sign the petition. By FAR, the most ardent supporters were LEGAL immigrants, especially those from Mexico. They are offended by the fact that they waited in line, did all the things that were asked of them – in exchane for one of the most precious disdinctions in the world, US citizenship – and now see the government esentially tell them their sacrifice was for nothing.

    Our local JBS chapter in Central Ohio has a member from Thailand. Perhaps you can convince Mr. Sariwatta that he is xenophobic right after you explain to Mr. Eisenburg that he is an anti-Semite.

    Please, stop calling people names.

    Now lets consider the amnesty issue. First the moral considerations. The Mexican government is overtly fascist in the neo-Mussolini style. The whole system is horrifically corrupt – ask just about any immigrant from Mexico, legal or illegal. The open border props up the current regime and acts as an escape valve for the pressure, much in the same way a teapot uses a spout. It also acts as a financial support. What is the number one import into Mexico from the US? Currency.

    Now consider the historical aspect of the immigration issue. I would agree with Patrick Henry on the following statement: “I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past.”

    Just before the fall of the Roman civilization the Emperor Valens decided that he needed cheap labor to do jobs that Romans did not want to do. He also needed lots of soldiers to fill out his overburdened military. They were at war with terrorists on horseback from the far reaches of the empire. Does any of this sound familiar? Within 10 years of the amnesty deal the “cheap labor” revolted, wiped out the Roman army at Adrianople and sacked Rome.

    We did not even get to the national security issues or the fact that every country in the world, including Mexico, has immigration laws to prevent their social services (hospitals, schools, police, fire, etc.) from being swamped.

    You may disagree with my positions as stated above but I must ask if it is fair to call me racist towards Mexicans because of them?

    I continue to object to your refusal to deal with the tough questions. You limit your responses to making fun of people that are emotionally upset by your hit piece.

    Please answer these questions:

    1. What part of “Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none” do you find objectionable, nativist or isolationist?

    2. Do you agree that it is unprofessional and wrong to label Ron Paul and ALL Birch Socity members as racist?

    Answer these questions and then I will respond to your cofusion over “conspiracy.”

    – Robert

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Thank you for changing your position. A small step, but a start.

    I don’t believe I actually changed my position, but nice try.

    “It’s the underlying paranoia and obsession with conspiracies which I find troubling.”

    Such statement is far different from the original memes you directed at Ron Paul and ALL John Birch Society Members. Remember your own words: “They’re [JBS/Ron Paul] still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed”

    So can we take your post #113 as a retraction of your initial libel?

    No, you can’t.

    That would be appropriate.

    No, it wouldn’t.

    I am a JBS member and, although you called me (a person you have never met) a racist, I forgive you.

    Did I mention your name? The JBS has lots of members, the fact that so many of them hold a great many insane and dangerous views does not mean that you automatically share those beliefs.

    Now lets see if we can take another step.

    Your new position is that ALL (again, an irresponsible blanket statement) JBS members “ARE nativists and isolationists and a lot of that is based on a xenophobia” and that “they are certainly hostile to Mexicans and other immigrant groups.”

    Please point out where in this article I used the world ‘all’ to apply my characterizations to every single Bircher? The fact is that I didn’t. You’re rewriting the article in order to make your attempt at an argument sound legitimate when it is not.

    Are you aware that a senior member of the JBS National field staff, the guy in charge of the entire southwest area of the country, is a second generation member of a immigrant family from Mexico?

    No, and I don’t particularly care. I know plenty of racist Mexicans. In fact my experience has been that 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants are the most hostile to newcomers of their own race.

    I have circulated JBS petitions askng Congress to secure the border (a major national security issue)

    An impossible pipe dream when the real national security issue is controlling the ports of entry. Thankfully we have the SPP to help us do that.

    and refuse to grant Amnesty.

    Something no one has ever proposed since the Reagan era.

    Over 90% of the passers by would sign the petition. By FAR, the most ardent supporters were LEGAL immigrants, especially those from Mexico. They are offended by the fact that they waited in line, did all the things that were asked of them – in exchane for one of the most precious disdinctions in the world, US citizenship – and now see the government esentially tell them their sacrifice was for nothing.

    If you make things up (like amnesty) and use other scare tactics and misrepresentations you can get people to sign almost anything.

    Our local JBS chapter (Central Ohio: http://jbs.meetup.com/21/) has a member from Thiland. Perhaps you can convince Mr. Sariwatta that he is xenophobic right after you explain to Mr. Eisenburg that he is an anti-Semite.

    I don’t know these people personally, so I have no basis for assessing their attitudes. I do know that some Thais and some Jews are extremely racist and xenophobic like you wouldn’t believe.

    Please, stop calling people names.

    Please stop being a member of a reactionary nut group.

    (Bizarre nativist excuse making deleted)

    You may disagree with my positions as stated above but I must ask if it is fair to call me racist towards Mexicans because of them?

    Sure. If they were Swedes you wouldn’t object to letting them into the country.

    I continue to object to your refusal to deal with the tough questions. You limit your responses to making fun of people that are emotionally upset by your hit piece.

    This is hardly a hit piece. I could have gone into a lot more detail and really discussed the JBS rather than just leaving it to a pretty neutral background link.

    Please answer these questions:

    1. What part of “Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none” do you find objectionable, nativist or isolationist?

    Like I said earlier, I’ve got no problem with some of the things the JBS says. Charles Manson could like bunny rabbits and he’d still be a mass murderer. The JBS has a well established history of putting forth a relatively harmless seeming front and leaving the dirty work to their surrogates and associates.

    2. Do you agree that it is unprofessional and wrong to label Ron Paul and ALL Birch Socity members as racist?

    Do you agree that it’s either a sign of extreme stupidity or an insult to my intelligence to think that I’d accept your complete distortion of my article as if it were accurate? I never said Paul was a racist. I have no reason to think he is. I also never said that all Birchers were racists.

    Here’s a question for you. Can you explain why if you read the bio of virtually every prominent racist, hatemonger or mad bomber, the first thing on their resume is membership in the JBS? Why is it that the first step towards holing up in a clock tower with your guns is joining the JBS?

    Or perhaps you could explain why the JBS put neo-nazi terrorist Carol Howe on the cover of their magazine in 1997. Or maybe you could talk about Tom Metzger (of WAR) and his time as a JBS regional organizer. Or perhaps explicate how his membership in the JBS inspired William Pearce to write the Turner Diaries. Hell, you could just explain the JBS’s long-term support for the racist militia movement.

    Answer these questions and then I will respond to your cofusion over “conspiracy.”

    On second thought, don’t bother.

    Dave

  • pleasexcusetheinerruption

    Lol go Dave! Nice to see your debate skills being put to use against someone besides me for a change.

    Robert? You just got pwnd.

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dave:

    Your words were:

    “They’re [JBS/Ron Paul] still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed”

    And now you say that you were not leveling that charge at Ron Paul and every member of the JBS? That is not honest. There is no distortion in my objection to your blanket name-calling.

    So as I understand your position now, Mexicans, Jews and Thais are racist too? You are starting to sound xenophobic!

    “Can you explain why if you read the bio of virtually every prominent racist, hatemonger or mad bomber, the first thing on their resume is membership in the JBS? Why is it that the first step towards holing up in a clock tower with your guns is joining the JBS?”

    These are silly indefensible statements that lack truth.

    The questions still remain…

    1. What part of “Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none” do you find objectionable, nativist or isolationist?

    Do you agree with this concept of foreign policy?

    2. Do you agree that it is unprofessional and wrong to label Ron Paul and ALL Birch Society members as racist?

    You made blanket statements without cause. You now claim, in contrast to the plain language of your comments, that “I also never said that all Birchers were racists.”

    But again, your statement was:

    “They’re [JBS/Ron Paul] still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed”

    Are you now saying “They’re” refers to some lesser amount of JBS members and not Ron Paul at all?

    -Robert

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Repeating your questions and ignoring my original answers and pretending I didn’t raise a bunch of questions of you may seem like a clever rhetorical technique, but it isn’t. Straw man arguments are also pathetically transparent.

    Any organization as large as the JBS is going to have some diversity in its membership. Just because every prominent member is some sort of lunatic or racist that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a few people there who are just confused or misguided or afflicted by a pathetic desire to belong to something.

    As for Ron Paul, as far as I know despite addressing the JBS he is not an official member of the organization. And if he is he sure is keeping it a secret – wonder why.

    Dave

  • TFS

    I work with Ron Paul and he wants to be clear that he did not drop out.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Well good, TFS, because no one, not even the WaPo ever said he dropped out. He just stopped actively campaigning and acknowledged he wasn’t going to win the presidency. He has every right to keep his delegates until the convention plus any he gains in the next couple of months.

    Glad that’s all cleared up for the 20th time.

    Dave

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dave:

    “ignoring my original answers”

    What answers? I repeat the questions because you will not answer them directly. For example, where have you directly answered the question as to the professionalism of issuing blanket statements that everyone in a group is a certain way, be it racist, isolationist etc? Do you agree that is wrong?

    I am still at a loss as to your inference that “Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none” is objectionable, nativist or isolationist.

    As far as I can tell, you agree that this concept is actually good for America yet you will not admit as such directly. As you say, “wonder why”

    Are you now officially changing your blanket statements that ALL JBS members are racist and anti-Semites to just the JBS leadership as racist etc.?

    To quote from your new post:

    “every prominent member is some sort of lunatic or racist”

    Again this begs the question if someone like Rev. Stephen Craft, a Harvard educated African-American and leader in the JBS is racist? Seems silly, no? When did you meet Rev. Craft?

    How about David Eisenburg? He is on the national council. That is a significant leadership position. Have you met him? How can you say he hates all Jews? (for example, do you presume that he hates his wife because she is Jewish?)

    Although we have never met, are you accusing me of being racist?

    Please answer the original questions directly.

    – Robert

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    What answers? I repeat the questions because you will not answer them directly. For example, where have you directly answered the question as to the professionalism of issuing blanket statements that everyone in a group is a certain way, be it racist, isolationist etc? Do you agree that is wrong?

    No. If you join a group which is full of racists and bigots and nuts and remain in that group knowing this to be the case, then you are at the very least condoning their beliefs and behavior and therefore are tainted by it.

    I am still at a loss as to your inference that “Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none” is objectionable, nativist or isolationist.

    Oh yay. More strawmanery. Feel free to make up anything and claim I said it and then respond to it.

    Are you now officially changing your blanket statements that ALL JBS members are racist and anti-Semites to just the JBS leadership as racist etc.?

    I’ve already answered this one TWICE. That seems more than sufficient.

    Again this begs the question if someone like Rev. Stephen Craft, a Harvard educated African-American and leader in the JBS is racist? Seems silly, no? When did you meet Rev. Craft?

    I don’t need to meet him. I don’t need to know anything about him except that he belongs to the JBS and therefore tacitly condones their actions and the actions of other members. The fact that he’s a religious fascist and a virulent homophobe doesn’t help either, of course. And BTW you spelled his first name wrong.

    How about David Eisenburg? He is on the national council. That is a significant leadership position. Have you met him? How can you say he hates all Jews? (for example, do you presume that he hates his wife because she is Jewish?)

    Again, all I need to know is that he’s in the JBS to know there’s something fundamentally wrong with his judgement. A little investigation shows that he’s a conspiracy nut who believes that there’s a conspiracy of communist jews operating through the ADL. I figured this out through a brief persusal of his writings. They’re easy to find since they are regularly reprinted on websites run by various chapters of the KKK. Does that not give you a clue? Oh, and you spelled his last name wrong.

    Although we have never met, are you accusing me of being racist?

    I never accused you personally of anything, but you do admit to being a member of an organization filled with racists and all forms of hatemongering and by the choice of being a member, condoning that behavior.

    Hate in various forms is the unifying principle of the JBS. If you don’t share that hate maybe you shouldn’t be a member.

    Dave

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dave:

    Thank you for the moment of honesty.

    These are some pearls of journalistic wisdom:

    “They’re [JBS/Ron Paul] still racists and anti-Semites and nativists and isolationists and conspiracy obsessed”

    and

    “I don’t need to meet him. I don’t need to know anything about him except that he belongs to the JBS”

    and

    “Again, all I need to know is that he’s in the JBS to know there’s something fundamentally wrong with his judgement”

    and

    “they ARE nativists and isolationists and a lot of that is based on a xenophobia which is at its heart racist. They may not be racist against blacks (today anyway), but they are certainly hostile to Mexicans and other immigrant groups.”

    I would caution against using any of these in your portflio. Eventhe NY Times would not go for that.

    Now that the truth of you position is abundently clear, I proceed as we are insructed in Matthew 10:14.

    For everyone else but Dave:

    To find out what the country should be, check out this 30 minute video entitled Overiew of America.

    The Mission of the JBS since 1958 is: To bring about less government, more responsibility, and — with God’s help — a better world by providing leadership, education, and organized volunteer action in accordance with moral and Constitutional principles.

    The JBS is home to the world’s largest all private library. The JBS has the resources to examine for accuracy such items as David Rockefeller’s statement in his 2002 autobiography: “For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure–one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”

    The JBS also opposes the enterance of the USA into a system of regionalized government similar to the European Union.

    Watch this short British Documentary about the EU.

    The JBS is smeared by the likes of Dave because it is the MOST effective guardian of liberty in the Nation. If we were all kooks, racist, etc., Dave would not need to bother.

    Check out their website and decide for yourself.

    -Robert

  • Cannonshop

    Dave Nalle said:
    “No. If you join a group which is full of racists and bigots and nuts and remain in that group knowing this to be the case, then you are at the very least condoning their beliefs and behavior and therefore are tainted by it.”

    Yes, Dave, but people still join the Democratic Party anyway. (Please, I’m being tongue-in-cheek here…)

    The Birchers you’re most familiar with, I think, are the ones from the sixties, who were, for the most part, inarticulate at best, and frequently had racist scumbags showing up claiming to support THEM. a bit like how the KKK tried to make headlines supporting Ronnie Reagan. The difference being that the Birchers were saying things people didn’t want to hear and they WERE a little bit hyper-fixated on the Communist threat

    Ron Paul used to be a Libertarian, this makes him rather more familiar, I think, with aspects of the American Fringe that you probably are not, including the phenomena that made him a Republican-eventually, with time and experience (the Commie invasion the Birchers were worried about in 1968 never materialized) nearly everyone mellows and becomes more reflective.

    The Birchers as a community, unlike racially-oriented groups, are not much different. I can find four or five Republicans who are more paranoid than your average Bircher, and you can’t swing a dead cat in a Democrat gathering without hitting someone who spouts off about the “Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy” and insists race-relations are still stuck in 1967, and it’s a hard go to find a gathering of young democrats who don’t have at least one member wearing a Che Guevarra tee-shirt, even if it’s under his oxford or his hair’s gray (or balding).

    Flat out, there’s enough crazy all around in the “Mainstream” groups that the Birchers aren’t any more a cobbled bunch of psychotic paranoids than anyone else.

  • http://www.ronpaul2008.com Joanne

    First, let us not forget that there has not yet been ONE vote cast for President of the United States. Not a one. State Primaries are not the National Election, and the media has distorted and lied plenty leading up to where we are today. If Ron Paul is not on the ballot in November, I’m still writing him in. The rest of the candidates are A) lying, B) lying, and/or C) lying. I would not vote for Clinton, Obama or McCain if you paid me to. More of the same big-business, big government, big spending, big taxes, globalist power-hungry agenda. McCain is no conservative, and doesn’t hardly look like the Republicans I grew up with.

    Candidates like Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel on the Dem side, and Dr. Paul on the Rep side have been ignored, ridiculed and dismissed as “crackpots”, “nutjobs” or worse. They have been called “dark horses” with no chance of winning, etc etc etc. It’s a little silly to think we are being told the truth by the media, or government, or the selected slate of party-line candidates. What these dismissed, truthful candidates have in common is they are speaking truth to power, and that scares a lot of those in power.

    I just want to say that I am voting for Ron Paul, not the JBS, not Alex Jones. The comments to this article are right on spot with how most RP supporters feel about your article, Dave. While you may have issue with JBS, I’d be more worried about the corruption we have at the highest levels of our government, in both major parties, and in the banking industry. I’d be more worried about the Federal Reserve, which is neither federal nor has any reserves. Ron Paul draws attention to these entitities and if he has done anything, he’s educated masses of people. Worried your Social Security may not be there for you? I’d be more worried that my Country won’t be here.

    “What is with all the Ron Paul supporters on this site? I guess an anti-immigration anti-abortion anti-government anti-tax candidate is too good to be true for some people. Lets go back to the 1700s.”

    Dr. Paul is not anti-immigration. He is against amnesty of illegal immigrants. He is for protecting our borders and fixing our LEGAL immigration process. He is pro-liberty, and pro-personal responsibility. He is pro-freedom, and pro-sustainability. It’s true, he believes the Federal government is OUT OF CONTROL, but who doesn’t? He is for strong State and local governments. He is pro-life, and wants to eliminate the IRS personal income tax. Who doesn’t? What does that have to do with 1700? Try 2008 – WE THE PEOPLE want the Federal government to stop spying on us, stop stealing from us, and stop trying to run our lives. If that makes me a pro-liberty (libertarian) person, so be it. I am a Republican, in support of the REPUBLIC for which our Constitution has been written. We are not a Democracy (majority rule), we are supposed to be protect the rights of the minority, not the ignorance of the masses.

  • Akston

    Irony (ahy-ruh-nee) – n. An organization famous for seeing Communists hiding everywhere being decried by observers who see racists hiding everywhere.

  • George

    All I’ve got to say Joannes comment is “AMEN!” I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  • http://deweynewz.blogspot.com/ George

    This George echoes exactly what the other George just said.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle


    Candidates like Dennis Kucinich and Mike Gravel on the Dem side, and Dr. Paul on the Rep side have been ignored, ridiculed and dismissed as “crackpots”, “nutjobs” or worse.

    Kucinich and Gravel ARE crackpots and had no chance no matter what the media did. There’s no conspiracy in giving fringe candidates limited coverage. And BTW, Gravel just became a libertarian.

    Dr. Paul is not anti-immigration. He is against amnesty of illegal immigrants.

    Something which had never been proposed or even considered by Congress.

    The problem is that Paul has issue positions based on fantasies like amnesty immigration and the fictional North American Union. That makes it hard to take him seriously. The reason that the JBS is relevant is that they originate these paranoid fantasies which Paul’s followers and the candidate himself embrace.

    Dave

  • REMF

    “Kucinich and Gravel ARE crackpots and had no chance no matter what the media did.”
    – Dave Nalle

    Now why doesn’t it surprise me that you trash the two guys who felt anyone who believed Iraq was a righteous invasion should enlist and volunteer for combat…(?)

  • Clavos

    After the fiascoes of Korea and Vietnam, anyone who enlists and volunteers for combat on behalf of this country is an idiot…

  • Pablo

    Just typical Davey rants, you go boy!

  • STM at the arse-hole end of the world

    In answer to Robert:

    If Britain is to become part of a Euro super state, how will that impact on the clandestine US/British bid to establish a global, world-ruling anglosphere of the English-speaking nations – now spread from one corner of the globe to the other?

    Anyone who thinks this isn’t happening needs to look at the clues presented of late … namely, Iraq, Afghanistan and the war on terror.

    Perhaps this is the real reason why France and Germany are so keen to have Britain more onside in terms of political union.

    Won’t happen though.

    The Poms (and their American friends) aren’t that stupid, and the CFR and its London equivalent, Chatham House, are in league. Everyone knows that.

    Twice in a century the British have watched Germany try to give the world a hot foot, and in the previous century they watched the French do it numerous times. They won’t simply let France and Germany head up a new super state that challenges the economic might of the US, and the British interests that go with it.

    An old empire might have fallen apart, but its ghost hasn’t disappeared.

  • Irene Wagner

    Dave Nalle: Some ‘patriots’ like Timothy McVeigh find their [JBS society, publisher of New American magazine] brand of anti-government populism inspiring… Woopsy-daisy.

    I find YOU inspiring, Dave Nalle, and I have a lifetime membership in the JBS. What does that say about YOU?

  • Irene Wagner

    Sorry, Dave Nalle, #135 was written by my OTHER persona who finds you inspiring and can’t post links properly.

    Dave Nalle: “Some ‘patriots’ like Timothy McVeigh find their [JBS society’s] brand of anti-government populism inspiring…” Woopsy-daisy.

    Seriously Dave Nalle, Will Grigg is as brown as the day is long and he was SENIOR EDITOR of the JBS’ flagship publication “The New American” for years! There were JBS members in the sixties who were racists. There were Republican and Democratic party members in the sixties who were racists, too. Well, how about it? The JBS has had serious internal problems lately. Will Grigg would be the first to attest to that. The typical JBS member is not a racist. Will Grigg would be the first to attest to that, also.

    I still get the New American magazine, and I don’t agree with it all, any more than you agree with all the publications you read. Populist? Yes, for the most part. Traditional Libertarians (NOT the neoconservatives who have–unconspiratorily, of course–infiltated Liberatarianism) score high on the Populist scale as well.

    “You’re a racist!”

    No, I’m not. I’m a “faithful follower of Brother John Birch and I belong to the Antioch Baptist Church, and I ain’t even GOT a garage, you can call home and ask my wife.” (Charlie Daniels)

  • TK

    JBS has been a cautionary line of extremism in political discussions since I was tiny (Grandpa says: “Oh no, now you’re starting to sound like someone from the John Birch Society!”) but I’ve never known much about them. Where do they get their reputation as being on the very edge of reason?

    Ah-ha! I’m descended from a long line of National Review subscribers — and Buckley railed against them, as far back as 1962.

  • ACUTS

    “fictional North American Union”

    I guess you do not read much or research at all.

    Public record… here and Canada

    SPP and NASRA… ring a bell. Read about it goofy…or maybe you can ask Obama about the fictional NAFTA Super Highway he admitted too.

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Who was John Birch?

    Check out this 10 minute video “The Adventures of John Birch”.

    [Edited]

    [Robert, it would be much appreciated if you could turn your URLs into properly formatted clickable links in future. If you don’t know how to do that, there is a quick and easy tutorial here.

    Also, the comments space is for posting your OWN words and thoughts, not for copying and pasting entire pieces from other sites. If you wish to share such things with us, please link to them.

    Thanks,
    Dr Dreadful
    Assistant Comments Editor]

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    BTW, there has been some debate over the JBS version of John Birch’s bio, which some have claimed is largely fictional and self-serving.

    “fictional North American Union”

    I guess you do not read much or research at all.

    Public record… here and Canada

    No, you see I actually HAVE done the research and there’s no documentation to support the idea of the NAU as the Birchers describe it (something like the EU with a common currency) except in the entirely theoretical writings of a couple of folks at the CFR.

    The SPP on the other hand, is real. But it’s no threat at all to US sovereignty. Go read some of the actual documentation for once instead of just what’s printed in JBS propaganda.


    I find YOU inspiring, Dave Nalle, and I have a lifetime membership in the JBS. What does that say about YOU?

    As I said earlier, there are things the JBS advocates which I agree with. I just draw the line at paranoid conspiracy silliness and nativist bigotry.

    Dave

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dr Dreadful:

    “[Edited]”

    Dave makes baseless accucations that ALL JBS members are racist (recall: “They’re still racists and anti-Semites and nativists”) which clearly violates the official comment policy to wit: “personal attacks of any kind, and terms offensive to groups when used in a pejorative manner.”

    In response to these blanket accusations I post some information about the JBS including some clip and paste from the website. This is not a vilation of the official comment policy yet it gets edited.

    Interesting.

    If the editing tools are out, please consider editing Dave’s blanket commnts accusing people of being racist.

    – Robert

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Robert,

    BC is a broad church and we allow pretty much any comment that doesn’t violate the comments policy, even ‘baseless accusations’.

    ‘Pejorative’ as I understand it implies a particular negative tone which just wasn’t present in Dave’s comment. I’d have to check with the site owners, but I have a fairly good idea that from their point of view, any pejorativeness on Dave’s part would have had to have involved the use of explicit insults. I see nothing here other than his own opinion.

    The comments policy as posted was written five years ago, and our approach since then has evolved with experience. It does urge the use of properly formatted links rather than blind URLs, and while the practice of cutting-and-pasting is not quite the same thing, in my view it commits the same offense of making the threads look untidy.

    Especially since, in your case, a clickable link to the relevant page on the JBS website would have done just as well.

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Dr Dreadful:

    If I were to call the owners of this site racist because they approve of Dave’s views, would you edit that?

    How about a claim that you are racist?

    Do the owners and administrators of this website take moral and legal responsibility for Dave’s blanket statement that “They’re (referencing Ron Paul and all JBS members) still racists and anti-Semites and nativists”?

    – Robert

  • silver surfer

    ACUTS wrote: “fictional North American Union I guess you do not read much or research at all. Public record… here and Canada.”

    This is not indicative of a North American Union.

    It’s far more indicative of the clandestine Anglosphere that is steadily taking control of the world. (yes, Canada is mainly an English-speaking nation).

    The US has a free-trade agreement with Australia as well, and they’re on the other side of the Pacific.

    While you’re all looking close to home in your paranoia about this fictional North American union, I suggest getting really paranoid and looking at a global union of English-speaking nations.

    That’s where the answers are. The problem is, the answers also raise even more questions …

    And here’s an interesting question first up.

    If there IS an anglosphere, and there’s no doubt in many people’s minds that there is such a clandestine thing, who’s really running it???

    I suggest getting busy on the internet now for some lengthy research. There’s much to be learnt. Time’s a wastin’, and there’s probably not much of it left before all this comes to pass.

  • http://drdreadful.blogspot.com Dr Dreadful

    Robert:

    If I were to call the owners of this site racist because they approve of Dave’s views, would you edit that?

    No. If that is your view, you’re entitled to express it.

    How about a claim that you are racist?

    That would depend on your tone and whether you had any valid reasons for saying so.

    Do the owners and administrators of this website take moral and legal responsibility for Dave’s blanket statement that “They’re (referencing Ron Paul and all JBS members) still racists and anti-Semites and nativists”?

    You’d have to ask them. Or you could stop whining, let it go and move on. The JBS doesn’t need you to protect it from Dave.

  • http://www.republicofdave.com Dave Nalle

    Robert, if you don’t want people to leap to the conclusion that you’re a bigot and a loon, don’t join the JBS. I find your assumption that the readers of this site are so ignorant and simpleminded that they can’t see through the JBS’s smokescreen of pseudolibertarian posturing to be incredibly arrogant.

    You can defend and try to redefine and misrepresent the JBS all you want, but the organization WILL be judged by the actions and beliefs of its members far more than your feeble protestations in its defense and attempts to distract with ad hominem attacks on me.

    Dave

  • STM

    Robert, under the 1st amendment, Dave is entitled to express his views free even from any legal ramifications providing he believes they are true and doesn’t break any laws in the process.

    It’s all very well to bang on about the constitution and upholding it, but you can’t have it both ways just because you don’t like what he says.

  • Pablo

    Dave,

    If you don’t want people to leap to the conclusion that you’re a bigot and a loon, don’t join the republican party. Smirk

  • Pablo

    Dave,

    You can defend and try to redefine and misrepresent the republican party all you want, but the organization WILL be judged by the actions and beliefs of its members far more than your feeble protestations in its defense. Double smirk

  • Clavos

    “Smirk?”

    “Double smirk?”

    Could you get any more puerile, Pablo?

    And you rage because nobody has respect for you or believes your wild-eyed rants…

    Grow up.

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    For 50 years the John Birch Society has been the leader in the fight to preserve our constitutional republic against collectivism in all of its forms. JBS success has been dramatic and that is why establishment lackeys like Dave are so vitriolic.

    Just a few of the success include:

    Nationalized police force – Killed by the JBS
    Constitutional-Convention – Killed by the JBS
    FTAA – Killed by the JBS
    NAU – Stalled by the JBS
    UN LOST – Stalled by the JBS
    Kyoto – Stalled by the JBS
    UN – Significantly curbed by the JBS
    Amnesty – JBS was a major national leader in the Summer 2007 amnesty fights in the Senate (forget the commentary Dave, only you and John McCain did not consider the McCain/Kennedy bill to be amnesty)

    The John Birch Society is home to the world’s largest all private library. It has a research team and a national field staff. More importantly, the JBS has well over a thousand chapters (usually between 10 and 60 members in each) around the nation.

    If you love our country and are resolved not to allow your children to live as slaves, join the Society. Find out why Ron Paul would say: “The John Birch Society is a great patriotic organization featuring an educational program solidly based on constitutional principles. I congratulate the Society in this, its 50th year. I wish them continued success and endorse their untiring efforts to foster ‘less government, more responsibility … and with God’s help … a better world.”

    – Robert

  • Pablo

    Yup Davey is a shill.

  • Clavos

    If you love our country…

    Not always; and, lately, not much.

    and are resolved not to allow your children to live as slaves…

    It IS tempting.

    Guess I won’t be joining the JBS anytime soon…

  • http://www.jbs.org Robert

    Before Ron Paul there was 5 term Congressman Larry McDonald, M.D. (Democrat-Georgia). Go to youtube.com and do a search on him. The 1983 “Crossfire” interview is highly recommended.

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