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Romney, a Mormon, Fears 2008 Presidential Run May Bring Backlash From Religious Right

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Massachusetts Gov. W. Mitt Romney, mulling a 2008 run for president, should be a dream candidate for many in the Republican Party.

Popular in his home state and noted as a charming and articulate speaker, Romney, 58, sprung onto the national stage when he oversaw the 2002 Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City, turning what was a potential debt-ridden disaster into a stunning success.

From there, he garnered 50% of the vote in his initial run for governor, in a state dominated by Democrats. Romney discovered upon taking office a $650 million deficit in fiscal 2003 and an anticipated one of $3 billion in fiscal 2004. Romney balanced the 2003 budget, and he finished 2004 with a $700 million surplus.

Romney, the valedictorian of his class at Brigham Young University, is noted as a dedicated family man who does not smoke or drink and who has been a church leader. He is a governor who personally opposes abortion, but would not block a woman’s right to choose. He supports benefits for gay couples, but has pushed for a state constitutional amendment defining marriage as the union of a man and a woman.

In theory, Romney’s conservative pedigree should appeal to the same majority that swept George W. Bush to narrow victories in 2000 and 2004. But, as in Massachusetts in 2002, Romney also should have cross-over appeal to attract conservative Democrats and independents.

But many believe he has virtually no chance of ever capturing the party’s nomination.

***

Here’s the problem: Romney is a devout member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, more commonly known as the Mormons.

The Southern Baptist Convention website categorizes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as a “cult” that is “radically” different from historic, biblical Christianity. A faith guide issued by the influential Christian right group Focus on the Family declares that “God cannot be identified . . . with the Mormon religion’s notion of god.” The Focus on the Family website features a guide for teaching Christianity to children that lumps Mormons in with pagan worship. And each year, evangelical organizers behind the National Day of Prayer bar Mormons from speaking at their proceedings.

Given that the South has become a GOP stronghold in recent presidential races, many, including Romney himself, believe Romney’s religion would emerge as an issue there should he seek to become the 44th president.

We’re nearly five decades past John F. Kennedy breaking the Protestant barrier, as the nation’s first Catholic president. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT), an orthodox Jew, was accepted by most as Al Gore’s vice presidential nominee in 2000. John Kerry (D-MA), a Catholic, was the Democratic nominee in 2004. But the Religious Right, apparently, hasn’t caught up completely.

***

Romney suggested, in a June interview with conservative magazine Weekly Standard, that his religion could pose a problem for some:

“This is a nation that will always welcome people of faith, and my party, in particular, will welcome people of faith,” Romney said. “I think if you said, ‘Look, we have a candidate for you, and you can know nothing about this person, except [his] religion, that’s the only thing that you can know, this person is a Mormon, but that’s all you can know. Do you want [him] as president?’ Well my guess is with all of the misunderstanding and lack of understanding and differences between one religion and another, that I think a lot of people would say, ‘Gosh, I am not sure that that makes me feel real comfortable.‘”

Others agree:

“I think it likely will matter,” Charles Reagan Wilson, director of the Center for the Study of Southern Culture at the University of Mississippi, told Newhouse Newspapers. “I think he will have to be very savvy and skillful in talking with evangelicals, and I don’t know what experience he has doing that. I think he’s got a hard row to hoe.”

The Rev. Robert Edgar, general secretary of the National Council of Churches and a former Pennsylvania congressman, believes Romney’s faith will be an issue he will have to deal with should he run for president.

“I don’t think it’s a death sentence for a candidate, or a super big obstacle,” Edgar told Newhouse. “I do think that people who express what their faith tradition is have to be authentic about expressing it.”

It would be extraordinarily hard for mainline denomination people in the South to openly and strongly politick or be involved in a Mormon’s run for office,” Bobby Welch, president of the Southern Baptist Convention, the nation’s largest non-Catholic denomination and a fixture of the Christian right, told the Boston Globe.

One evangelical leader offered the Weekly Standard a succinct take on whether Romney’s faith would hurt him in the primaries: “Against Giuliani, no. Against Frist, yes. Against [Rick] Santorum, yes. Against Arnold [Schwarzenegger, who is ineligible], no.”

Echoing that thought was Richard Land, who runs public affairs for the Southern Baptist Convention. He told the Globe that if Romney “were running against Bill Frist or George Allen — if [evangelical voters] have a choice between a social conservative who is an evangelical or a social conservative who is a Mormon — most are going to choose a social conservative who is an evangelical.”

***

Romney’s late father, George, who was also Mormon, ran for president in 1968 when he was the governor of Michigan. He dropped out before the primaries. At the time, Gallup found that 17 percent of respondents would not vote for a Mormon for president, even if their party “nominated a generally well-qualified person” of the faith.

Have times changed? No.

A Gallup Poll in February 1999 that repeated the question again found 17 percent of respondents saying they would not vote for a Mormon.

Orrin Hatch (R-UT), who briefly ran for president in 2000, thought that he could overcome the bias against Mormons within his party. He was wrong.

As recounted by The Hill:

Implying that prejudice was stronger than he had realized, Hatch popped off (prior to the Iowa Caucus), saying,“I am not going to take any crap from anybody about my religion.” The charge that seemed to irritate Hatch the most was that Mormons are not Christians. “I take my Christian faith very seriously,” protested the annoyed candidate.

***

Romney is doing his part to reach out to the Religious Right, reports the Globe.

Last March, the governor invited Southern California evangelical pastor Rick Warren to breakfast in Cambridge after reading his bestseller, The Purpose Driven Life. Romney has also appeared on syndicated radio host Hugh Hewitt’s show, a megaphone to religious conservatives, three times in the past three months.

Will it be enough to overcome religious prejudice within his party?

Don’t bet the farm on a President Romney.

***

This article first appeared at Journalists Against Bush’s B.S.

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About David R. Mark

  • http://musical-guru.blogspot.com Michael J. West

    And yet, the Mormons are almost uniformly Republicans. Utah is a red, red state. Realistically, shouldn’t it be the fundamentalist right that’s reaching out to the Mormons, and not the other way around? They can’t really afford to risk a constituency as large and powerful as the LDS…

  • Kelly Knight

    It is unfortunate in this day and age where the “Christian Right” can so vociferously complain about the liberal left being intolerant of “Christian Right” beliefs, practices, and ideologies on the one hand, and then so openly condemn one who is LDS for their practices and ideologies.

    The LDS Church is at the forefront of family unity (The Family: A Proclamation to the World); Staunchly supports and defends right to life principles; Promotes charity and charitable giving (LDS Humanitarian Services), etc. Everything a Christian stands for, the LDS Church promotes.

    So why so much hatred? Why can a Mormon not run for president, garner the support of the South, and bring strength and unity to the Republican Party?

    Besides, who left the Southern Baptists in charge, anyway?

  • http://none.com Bob A. Booey

    Would he wear his magic underwear during the debates?

    That is all.

  • Jim Davies

    Interesting article. If anyone opposes a potential Romney candidacy, based on his religion, they should consider two things:
    First, a statement by Richard J. Mouw, President of the Fuller Theological Seminary.
    “By bearing false witness against our LDS neighbors, we evangelicals have often sinned not only against Mormons but against the God who calls us to be truth tellers.”

    Secondly, they should read an extremely thoughtful, well researched and documented book by Douglas E. Cowan, a former clergyman who teaches sociology and religious studies at the University of Missouri, Kansas City. The book’s title is “Bearing False Witness? An Introduction to the Christian Countercult” (Westport, CT: Praeger, 2003).
    Cowan’s book is available on Amazon.com.
    If one thoughtfully studies and considers these things and still concludes that they could not support a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, then so be it. But, in considering an office as critical as the Presidency of the United States, we, as citizens, should seek out honest, wise, good and capable men to serve. Mitt Romney is such a man.

  • http://www.elitistpig.com Dave Nalle

    Romney does seem to have done a good job as governor, but even though I’m against everything the religious right stands for, they are basically correct in calling Mormonism a cult – of course it’s a case of the pot calling the kettle black – but mormons remain creepy.

    On the other hand we have had two Quaker presidents (can you name them?), so maybe it’s not that much of an issue. After all, we used to tar and feather Quakers just on principle.

    Dave

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Richard M. Nixon was a Quaker. Anyway, I live in Massachusetts. Romney has done an adequate job. He has a reputation for being an aloof Governor who spends very little time within the confines of the State House except for photo ops. Romney may think he’s presidential material, but he’s not. While he may be a Mormon, he comes nowehere near Senator Orrin Hatch in stature or trustworthiness.

  • zona

    Magic Underwear? Creepy? Some of you people are so out of touch with the real world. Do you even know any Mormons? I bet you all know many and don’t realize it, and would be shocked to learn they are as normal and everyday as anyone else. Some of the greatest people I know are Mormons. Many of them are excellent leaders, and I know that most of them I can trust completely. They don’t compromise, they love and care of their families, and they have been wonderful friends. What are some people so afraid of?
    The religious right has become so jaded…what do they care about most? Voting in one their own congregation? or putting a president in office who is honest and trustworthy, who knows how to lead, and can cut government enough to start getting us out of debt…and who shares their same values.
    If Romney runs and people choose not to vote for him because is a Mormon, then that says much more about the voter than the candidate. Very sad.

  • Jed Merrill

    A cult is an organization that follows the teachings of a single person. In the case of the Mormons, that is Christ. How is that different than other Christians? No Mormon that I know of worships Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or even deifies themselves (as a Gerald or Sandra Tanner would claim.) Even the name honors Jesus Christ, where Baptists seem to honor John the Baptist above Christ, judging by name alone. Mormon is a nickname given the Church by non-Mormons, and never was an official name.

    Anyway, I am very impressed with both the openmindedness and strong overall values of Mr. Romney and would certainly support him for President and encourage all others who value great leadership to do the same. He is strong and independent enough to not have to rely on a cabinet and questionable advisors to make smart decisions. We’ve seen it in his handling of the Olympics and his turnaround of the Massachusetts economy.

    If you have any animosity toward Romney as a “Mormon” or “Mormons” in general, perhaps it is time to make sure the beam is out of your own eye. Baptists, not to offend anyone, have no firmer hold on what is “Christian” doctrine than any othe Protestant church. They simply have a louder voice as a larger church. I think it is also worth noting that while the Baptists are the second largest church numerically in America after Catholics, the “Mormons” or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, recently became the fourth.

  • http://paperfrigate.blogspot.com DrPat

    According to my Wikipedia,

    In religion and sociology, a cult is a relatively small and cohesive group of people (often a new religious movement) devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture or society considers to be far outside the mainstream. Its marginal status may come about either due to its novel belief system or because of its idiosyncratic practices.

    And when the LDS Church began, they were certainly considered far outside the mainstream…

  • http://scriptures.lds.org/a_of_f/1 Mormon Friend

    If anyone has any question about what Romney or members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe, the following is excerpted from a document originally known as the Wentworth Letter (sent by the first President of the Church, Joseph Smith, to John Wentworth of the Chicago Tribune circa 1940) and now incorporated as The Articles of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I would draw particular attention to articles 11 through 13.

    Incidentally, Joseph Smith was the first Mormon to run for President. He was assassinated prior to the election.

    THE ARTICLES OF FAITH
    OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

    History of the Church, Vol. 4, pp. 535-541

    1 WE believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

    2 We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.

    3 We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

    4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    5 We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

    6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

    7 We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

    8 We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

    9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

    10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

    11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

    12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    13 We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul–We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

    JOSEPH SMITH.

    Source: http://scriptures.lds.org/a_of_f/1

  • http://www.diablog.us Dave Nalle

    Sounds like a cult to me.

    But at least he’s not a Scientologist.

    Dave

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I know many Mormons as well and once considered conversion. The Book of Mormon is an interesting read. If you want to see what Mormons are all about all you have to do is look at the State Government in Utah or several local governments there. Most Mormons are fair, decent people who govern with principle and extreme efficiency. I have no respect for their attitude toward women or gays; but, that’s the way it is with most religions built on hatred and guilt. Romney is in a different class. As much as people want to believe that he turned Massachusetts around, it isn’t to all his credit. He is far from a hands on Governor unless it suits his opportunity to pose for pictures and give sound bytes. Socially he is ultra conservative which also causes me alarm.

  • zona

    What do believe are their attitudes towards women and gays? I have a very hard time believing that there is any hatred or guilt behind any of their motives or beliefs. Those I know who are Mormon, some of which have family members, friends or co-workers who are gay/lesbian, certainly don’t agree with the lives they lead (I accept that they are firm in their beliefs regarding the matter) but seem very loving and accepting of them as people nonetheless.
    I suppose there are going to be individuals who will have certain attitudes or act in certain unkind ways towards people who do things that they don’t believe in. That is common in every aspect of our lives. But to say that the Mormon church is built on hatred and guilt is VERY hard for me to swallow. If it were so, I’d expect that the members of the Mormon church would act in accordance with those base beliefs…and I have just not seen it.

  • http://www.mormon.org Jed Merrill

    The Mormon Church is not built on hatred or guilt, but love and service. It is understandable from a conservative point of view that Mormons would not view open gay lifestyles positively, as such a lifestyle could be seen as anti-family and immoral. Other Christian faiths (albeit not all individual Christians) seem to agree. The Church does welcome gays, but not their earthy lifestyle. Gays are encouraged to repent, and receive support from Church leaders (and God for that matter) in their efforts.

    As for what you say about women, the largest women’s society in the world is the Relief Society of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I do not know of a more empowering or empowered group. They could be seen as conservative feminists as opposed to liberal. They put family and personal spiritual development first in their lives.

    Priesthood is irrelevant. The man without the woman or the woman without the man is incomplete before the Lord, according to the Bible. There are “priestesses” in the Church, just not in the Aaronic or Melchizedek Priesthoods, which administer the rights and ordinances of the gospel. In the end, all men and women are equal, and all are children of a just God who is merciful to those who exercise faith and repent, or in the words of Jesus, Come unto him.

  • http://www.mormon.org Jed Merrill

    By priestess I mean that a man and a woman, when sealed in the temple as man and wife, receive certain blessings that individually they could not qualify for. In a sense they become priest and priestess over their family, and the family is the basic unit of the Church.

  • http://www.mormon.org Jed Merrill

    And ultimately most enduring unit of the Church. Wards and Stakes divide and change, but the Church teaches that families can be together forever, and not just until death do we part, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel taught by Christ and restored through revelation from God in our day–to those who had the faith to ask for it.

  • http://www.mormon.org Jed Merrill

    “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not, and it shall be given him.” James 1:5 (The Bible)

  • http://www.Mormon.org Jed Merrill

    Can anyone find fault with that?

  • http://www.lds.org Mormon Friend

    That makes the one teaching that is truly distinctive about the Mormon faith the idea that God still answers prayers, and that the Heavens are not closed, contrary to teachings of other churches in the early 1800’s. Everyhing else rests on that principle of continuing revelation from God. Joseph Smith was rabidly attacked by preachers in his day over that idea, even before the Church was organized, and I suppose we can expect the same today from closed-minded people who are willing to accept what God said 2,000 years ago but reject what he might have said 150 years ago or today–without looking at or praying about it.

  • T.D.

    If this is an issue for you, I strongly suggest you peel back the onionskin on Mormonism. It will take a little time, but is the only way to get your hands around why this is such a hot issue.
    Mormonism is predominantly focused on the teachings of Joseph Smith, not Christ. It’s “scriptures” are mostly penned by Smith and subsequent “prophet/presidents” and include numerous anachronisms and fanciful stories that defy any standard of objective truth. The secret of its proliferation lies in its reliance on emotional reaction to reading LDS books after periods of prayer and, often, fasting.
    Someone who blindly believes these fantasies probably lacks the intellectual fortitude and common sense to govern responsibly. I’m a Republican and a Christian, and believe strongly that my beliefs must stand up under scrutiny, or they simply aren’t truth. I have never seen anything that demands such blind obedience and acceptance as Mormon doctrine. It is a classic cult that developed through isolation in Utah’s frontier. Followers of Mormonism must declare allegiance to their doctrine, as well as belief that Joseph Smith and Gordon Hinckley (current Mormon President) are prophets.
    If you want to peel back the onionskin more, I recommend “An Insider’s View of Mormon Origins” by Grant Palmer. It’s a short read, and one that will open your eyes to the truth about Mormon beliefs. Palmer, by the way, is a Mormon.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    The basic tenets of Mormonism are very positive, especially when it comes to taking care of their own. What I have a problem with is the shunning of gays that takes place within the Church. If you’re gay, you are disowned, disavowed, treated like scum. Fortunately, Affirmation is working to reconcile Mormons in the LGBT community. I don’t have a problem with Mormons in political service. Orrin Hatch is an excellent example of a Mormon who has done a lot of good in Washington.

  • http://www.colinandbethany.com/phpBB2/ Colin Jensen

    The quick acceleration of this post shows exactly why Romney couldn’t be elected. People just have no idea what Mormons believe, and the powerful political groups who try to monopolize and redefine the word “Christian” will prevent anyone from ever finding out.

    I mean, James Dobson calling Mormons a non-Christian cult? Do people not know the definition of hypocrite any more than they know the definition of Christian? I like Romney, and have never liked Dobson or any of the like who think Christ needs help from those who are willing to lie cheat and steal to steady the ark.

    If there were any moderates left in the world, Romney would be elected in a heartbeat. But when US politics has become ACLU vs. Pentecostals, Romney doesn’t have a chance.

    Colin Jensen
    http://www.colinandbethany.com/phpBB2/

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    And Dobson doesn’t head his own Christian cult? This is what kills me. These preachers all want a piece of the Christian pie and call it the best slice. Give me a break.

  • Dean Bender

    “any standard of objective truth” ? Give me a break; Moses walking on dry ground across a Sea? Christ walking on water? Peter instantly healing someone? Where does this standard of objective truth fit here?

    “lacks the intellectual fortitude and common sense”? It has been researched and documented that the more education Mormons have the more active they are in their religion. The opposite is true of Roman Catholics and Protestants. The more education they have the less likely they are to be active participants.

    Finally American culture teaches us to let our conscience be our guide. But according to some that Doesn’t apply to reading the Book of Mormon. Read, ponder and prayer doesn’t seem to work for them. How many times does the Lord have to instruct us to “Seek, ask, knock”?

  • Rodney Remington

    “Someone who blindly believes these fantasies probably lacks the intellectual fortitude and common sense to govern responsibly. I’m a Republican and a Christian, and believe strongly that my beliefs must stand up under scrutiny, or they simply aren’t truth.”

    ??

    You are a Christian but your beliefs must stand up under scrutiny? Do you believe in the Creation? That Moses parted the Red Sea? That people in Bibilical times lived to be hundreds of years old? Do these beliefs pass “scrutiny”?

    Come on, Religion is an act of faith, not logical scrutiny. This is no more or less true of Mormons than any other Christian faith.

    The fact is, most Mormons are more socially conservative and Republican than Baptists. Baptists better come to terms with this or they will find themselves in a very small tent.

  • http://none.com Bob A. Booey

    No one answered my question about the magic underwear.

    No sex/cheating scandals here. If President Romney gets caught with another woman, he can just marry her.

    That is all.

  • Rodney Remington

    No one answered you about magic underwear because it’s a stupid question. Is the Jewish Yamaka a magic hat? Is the Catholic Priest’s collar a magic collar? Is the Pope’s hat Magical? Grow up.

  • http://none.com Bob A. Booey

    I thought you were my friend, Rodney Remington.

    I guess I was wrong ….

    (Cue sad music)

    I’ll just be going home now, with my broken heart.

    (Cue sad pouting lower lip, like Michelle from Full House)

    Did I mention I had a miraculous set of skid marks once that looked like Joseph Smith? Even I grossed myself out with that joke just now. I would never have such poor hygiene, darlings, which is why I couldn’t bear to wear magic underwear that had Masonic etchings or drawings inside it for good luck. I’d confuse them for an hygiene mishap.

    The magic underwear thing is for real, though. Look it up on Google: “Mormon” and “magic underwear” or “Mormon” and “temple garments.” Underwear’s way, way different than hats worn during religious services. I wonder if they make magic thongs for the Mormon ladies to keep their husband (singular, not plural) happy or if they’re stuck with unappealing, off-white to gray magic granny panties. Mormon girls are all blonde, too.

    That is all.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    No one answered my question about the magic underwear.

    Not called magic underwear. It’s an ‘undergarment‘ that preserves the chastity of the individual. It keeps them pure for their marriage partner and keeps the forces of evil from hurting them. I kindda think a dude is cute in his sacred garment but I can’t go down that road. If I admitted to anything he’d be excommunicated.

  • http://none.com Bob A. Booey

    Silas is kinky. What about a big hairy bear like Senator Al Barger in the sacred garments, Silas?

    Would that be hotter than a Madonna video or what, girlfriend? Would you be able to control youself?

    That is all.

  • Rodney Remington

    You make quite a spokesman for the enemies of the Mormon church.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    OMG, Sen Al Barger as a Mormon. That’s like making Diane Feinstein a Roman Catholic. I like the idea of Al being the National Teddy Bear, though. He’d be an inspirational icon to so many communities. Unfortunately, BABs, I detest Madonna. She’s too commercial. I’m more into Black Sabbath, jazz, and Jimmy Buffett. I am the antithesis of mainstream gay.

  • Anthony Grande

    No no no one will vote for a mormon to be our president. NO devote Christians will vote for one.

    Read the last paragraph in the Bible, preferibly the Living Bible, it states:

    “I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book; if f anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away that person’s share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.” -Revelation 22.21

    This is the reason we will never have a Mormon president, because the Mormans have added to the bible. They added a whole chapter about John Smith and even added a whole other book: The Book of Morman.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Wrong, Anthony. The Book of Mormon is an additional Testament of Jesus Christ. It’s a wonderful read and I suggest you check it out. Joseph Smith didn’t add to the Bible. He complemented it. And insofar as adding to the Book is concerned, I urge you to research the books of the Bible and those that were removed by the Council of Nicea. Christianity changed the rules of the game hundreds of years ago. The Book that has been crafted for mass consumption in all probability is far from the intent of the original writers.

  • http://none.com Bob A. Booey

    They are gay Parrotheads?

    What would one call a gay Parrothead?

    I tried to think of a clever, punny joke but I couldn’t. That’s so unlike me, but I don’t know enough ornithology to think of a gay bird.

    Silas is definitely a top if he likes Black Sabbath.

    That is all.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    Greatest rock song ever written was Iron Man followed by War Pigs. Fairies Wear Boots ain’t all that bad either. BABs, I’m not a pop queer, I detest Streisand and think Judy Garland was overrated.

  • Anthony Grande

    Silas, I agree that the Mormans aren’t adding to the bible, but the strong willed Christians disagree. I should know, my mother is one of the strong willed Christians who believes the Mormans are going to hell.

    He wouldn’t get a single Christian vote.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    And maybe your Mom is right. And maybe there’s no Hell. It’s all about faith, Anthony. If we insignificant little humans had more faith in each other perhaps we would find that level of spirituality we are longing for.

  • Jewels

    My Mormon Tale: my parents, once avid RV’ers, who loved to travel out West, especially southern Utah and the desert areas, spent one whole winter out there a few years back. Something happened to them… Upon returning, they set up their house for sale; Dad gave up his lifelong appreciation for Jack Daniels, (oh the long chats we used to have solving all the world’s problems while sipping our ‘buddy’ Jack…*sigh*) Well they’ve up and moved to Utah; joined the Church of LDS (so similar to LSD). Dad’s now a high priest.

    But to think of the two of them chasing each other around in magic underpants…I am irrevocably damaged.

  • http://biggesttent.blogspot.com/ Silas Kain

    I see a new Hanes commercial coming.

  • Jewels

    Or how about a children’s book; “Junie B. Jones and the Magic Underpants”?

  • Hunter Swift

    i too believed certain falsalities about the “Mormon Church”. I was raised christain, and thought Mormons were a cult, but now I know they are not. Here is why: http://hunterswift.8m.com

  • Jon

    I think that as more and more Mormons realize the feelings the people who they vote with have for them that more and more will start voting with the democrats, a party much more open to differing views and backgounds.

  • http://countdookie.blogspot.com/ count dookie

    Uh, hate to tell you. Romney is extremely UNpopular in Mass. He wont be reelected gov. if he runs.

  • Nancy

    I did a lot of research on, and talking to, Mormons back when I was a kid. I would never, ever even vaguely consider voting for one, not because of the magic undies (I don’t care what they wear) or that they think they’re going to become gods (but just the men) when they die, but because (as pointed out by TD in #20, this particular cult, as with all cults, demands & requires an absolute, unquestioning obedience from all members in submission to whomever is the current “prophet” – which is precisely WHY it is considered a “cult” in the first place. Jim Jones had nothing on the president/prophet of the LDS church as far as requiring blind obedience from his followers. Even the Pope doesn’t try this (altho I’m sure if Bennie the unpteenth thought he COULD, he would in a Vatican minute). This mindless submission & indoctrination is creepy, repulsive, and in the not-very-far-distant past has been positively murderous & insane. I know, because I almost got talked into it. Fortunately, I was able to escape, but it wasn’t easy, once they thought they had their hooks into me. TD is right: the LDS relies on conversion/retention methodology far too similar to other cults & secret societies, such as Scientology. I wouldn’t vote for a Scientologist, either, for that matter. Or Jim Jones, even if he were still alive.

  • Nancy

    Actually, I would only vote for someone reasonably secularist anyway, so which variety of religious persecution any candidate favors would be moot.

  • Hunter Swift

    (An editorial on Mormons from a Santa Clarita, CA newspaper)
    >
    >Editor:
    >
    >I have heard and seen enough! I have lived in the West all my life. I
    >have
    >worked around them. They have worked for me and I for them. When I was
    >young, I dated their daughters. When I got married they came to my
    >wedding.
    >Now that I have daughters of my own, some of their boys have dated my
    >daughters. I would be privileged if one of them were to be my
    >son-in-law.
    >
    >I’m talking about the Mormons. They are some of the most honest,
    >hard-working people I have ever known. They are spiritual, probably more
    >than most other so-called religious people I have encountered. They
    >study
    >the Bible and teach from it as much as any Christian church ever has.
    >They
    >serve their religion without pay in every conceivable capacity. Not one
    >of
    >their leaders, teachers, counselors, Bishops or music directors receive
    >one
    >dime for the hours of labor they put in. The Mormons have a non-paid
    >ministry–a fact not generally known.
    >
    >I have heard many times from the pulpits of others how evil and
    >non-Christian they are and that they will not go to heaven. I decided
    >recently to attend one of their services near my home to see for myself.
    >What a surprise! What I heard and saw was just the opposite from what
    >the
    >religious ministers of the day were telling me. I found a very simple
    >service with no fanfare. I found a people with a great sense of humor
    >and
    >a
    >well-balanced spiritual side. There was no loud music. Just a simple
    >service, with the members themselves giving the several short-sermons.
    >They
    >urge their youth to be morally clean and live a good life. They teach
    >the
    >gospel of Christ, as they understand it. The name of their church is
    >”The
    >Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.” Does that sound like a
    >non-Christian church to you? I asked them many questions about what
    >they
    >teach and why. I got answers that in most cases were from the New
    >Testament.
    >Their ideas and doctrines did not seem too far fetched for my
    >understanding.
    >When I read their “Book of Mormon” I was also very surprised to find
    >just
    >the opposite from what I had been told I would find.
    >
    >Then I went to another church’s pastor to ask him some of the same
    >questions
    >about doctrine. To my surprise, when he found out that I was in some way
    >investigating the Mormons, he became hostile. He referred to them as a
    >non-Christian cult. I received what sounded to me like evil propaganda
    >against those people. He stated bluntly that they were not Christian and
    >that they did not fit into the Christian mold. He also told me that they
    >don’t really believe the Bible. He gave me a pile of anti-Mormon
    >literature.
    >He began to rant that the Mormons were not telling me the truth about
    >what
    >they stand for. He didn’t want to hear anything good about them. At
    >first
    >I
    >was surprised and then again, I wasn’t. I began to wonder. I have never
    >known of a cult that supports the Boy Scouts of America. According to
    >the
    >Boy Scouts, over a third of all the Boy Scout troops in the United
    >States
    >are Mormon. What cult do you know of that has a welfare system second to
    >none in this country? They have farms, canneries and cattle ranches to
    >help
    >take care of the unfortunate ones who might be down and out and in need
    >of
    >a
    >little help. The Mormon Church has donated millions to welfare causes
    >around
    >the world without a word of credit. They have donated thousands to help
    >re-build Baptist churches that were burned a few years ago. They have
    >donated tons of medical supplies to countries ravaged by earthquakes.
    >You
    >never see them on TV begging for money. What cult do you know of that
    >instills in its members to obey the law, pay their taxes, serve in the
    >military if asked and be a good Christian by living high moral
    >standards?
    >
    >Did you know that hundreds of thousands Mormon youth get up before high
    >school starts in the morning to attend a religious training class? They
    >have
    >basketball and softball leagues and supervised youth dances every month.
    >They are recruited by the FBI, the State Department and every police
    >department in the country, because they are trustworthy. They are taught
    >not
    >to drink nor take drugs. They are in the Secret Service – those who
    >protect
    >the President. They serve in high leadership positions from both parties
    >in
    >Congress and in the U.S. Senate, and have been governors of several
    >states
    >other than Utah. They serve with distinction and honor. If you have
    >Mormons
    >living near, you will probably find them to be your best friends and
    >neighbors. They are Christians who try to live what they preach. They
    >are
    >not perfect and they are the first to admit this. I have known some of
    >them
    >who could not live their religion, just like many of us. The rhetoric
    >which
    >is spread around against them is nothing more than evil propaganda
    >founded
    >in untruths. (Others) had successfully demonized them to the point that
    >the
    >general public has no idea what they actually believe and teach. If you
    >really want to know the truth, go see for yourself. You, also, will be
    >surprised.
    >
    >When I first moved here some 25 years ago there were five Mormon wards
    >in
    >Santa Clarita. Now there are 15. They must be doing something right.
    >
    >Paul Allen
    >Santa Clarita, California

  • Tstrike

    “Developed through isolation in Utah’s frontier?” Mormon Doctrine was fully developed years before Utah came into the picture. And followers of Mormonism must declare nothing, if they don’t wish to. As a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I have never been commanded to blind obedience; the admonition most given to me by church leaders has been to “pray about it.”

    As for Revelation 22:18, try Deuteronomy 4:2, or Proverbs 30:5-6. That would make for a shorter Bible, no? Or we could just remember that the Bible as we know it, even the Living Bible, was collected and organized by the leaders of what was about to become the Catholic church hundreds of years after the original twelve apostles were dead. That means that the Catholics have the line of succession from Christ through Peter, just like they say, and the Southern Baptist “cult” is SOL for rejecting the truth. Or, when God and His Son appeared to Joseph Smith and told him that ALL the churches were wrong and had no authority and set him to the work of restoring Christ’s church, the Latter-day Saints picked up the “torch of truth”– and the Southern Baptists are still SOL. As far as Mitt and the presidency, I wish him luck, and I hope that he’s able to wade through the muck of national politics without compromising his commitment to the truth, which looks to me like a tougher chore than getting elected for one in the same party as Tom Delay and Carl Rove.

  • imthenats

    Hey whatsup Hunter Swift, this is your friend PK.
    I am a Member of the Church of Jesus Christ.
    I don’t think we should be hostile to Gays and Lesbians. I do beleive, however that It is wrong for a man or a woman to be homosexual. To me it is just plain wrong and not of God.
    I don’t yet know the truth of all things, but at times I have felt strongly that I am in the right place.
    The thing is, I don’t know the truth yet, I have been a Mormon all my life, but my friend Hunter Swift knows.

  • P. Phillips

    I think a lot of you morons concerned with “magic underwear” and the like need to learn to cope with the fact that anyone who’s been associated with a Mormon friend or coworker sees them as more “Christian” than most self proclaimed Christians are. Mormons are one of the only Christian religions left out there that actually live their religion.

    Some of you might say, “I don’t know any Mormons.” Well, you’ll find them in perhaps some surprising places. Consider these well known Mormons.

    J. Willard Marriott, founder of Marriott Hotels

    Nolan Archibald, CEO Black & Decker

    Steven R. Covey, Chairman of Franklin Covey

    David Neelman, CEO Jet Blue Airlines

    Kevin Rollins, CEO Dell Computer Corporation

    Sports greats: Steve Young, “Jack” Dempsey, Roy Halladay, Wally Joyner, Dale Murphy, Ryne Sandberg, Robin Yount…just to name a few.

    Even Madison Square Gardens is run by a Mormon (Dave Checketts).

    So maybe Mormons aren’t so scary after all eh?

  • Nancy

    What is scarey is the history of the behavior of the LDS leadership, from the inception, beginning with Smith. In it’s short history, the organization has been implicated (and several times convicted on impartial evidence) of complicity in murder, theft, fraud, and any number of other crimes. Furthermore, the leadership demands unquestioning obedience from all subordinate members, and is accountable to no one. The reigning ‘prophet’, whoever he is (and Mormon creed forbids it ever being a woman, since women are merely considered as breeding animals – physical or spiritual – for men, both here on earth and when they become ‘gods’ in their own universes) and his 2 fellows in the ruling triumvirate of the LDS church are completely, utterly unaccountable, either to the membership or to any other bodies of oversight. Technically, within the church (and within the state of Utah, if not elsewhere as well), that means they exercise absolute power. And we are all well aware of the sayings about absolute power.

    Hence, yes: Mormonism is creepy, and Mormons are scarey. Reading material written by Mormons just makes it more so. Kind of like reading Jim Jones.

  • http://ruvysroost.blogspot.com Ruvy in Jerusalem

    I can’t say anything about the Mormons per se and won’t. But I got awful curious about the comments referring to “magic underwear”.

    I read through the comments to get an idea of what this “magic underwear” was.

    Apparently, the Mormons have instituted a priesthood with sacred clothing. The “magic underwear” are the undergarments desidgned to provide ritual purity to the Mormon priesthood.

    Looking at the comments about “magic underwear” made me understand how our Kohaním will be viewed by ignorant outsiders and non-Jews once the priesthood is re-established here.

  • Nancy

    One could make a case that the “magic underwear” is actually inspired by the Jewish 4-cornered garment w/tassels (tzitzit?), altho the LDS version is covered w/various arcana symbols, especially Masonically-derived ones. If you go to ebay, I’ve seen them on sale there, if you’re interested in seeing what they look like.

  • Maurice

    Mormons give 10% of their gross earnings to their church.

    That is scary. Especially considering the money involved would be larger than state governments tax revenue.

    Example: Utah income tax rate = 7% (highest bracket)

    I live in Idaho where we also have a large percentage of mormons. Our top bracket is 7.8%

  • Nancy

    The LDS church controls huge assets – it’s estimated even more/larger than the RC church, but of course it’s all secret. Actually, from what I’ve been told, a lot of them give more than 10% – 10% in the “suggested minimum” – and frequently there are “special collections” taken by order of Salt Lake City High Command (usually there is no reason given – just a stated ‘goal’ for each stake/parish), but seldom is the rank & file ever told what it’s for, or if a reason is given, it’s vague (like “missionary support”, which is specious, since Mormon missionaries are expected to pay their own way). I do state that this is what I’ve been told recently by active Mormons. AND in addition, each family is expected to stockpile a year’s worth of food & emergency supplies; so they put out quite a bit of their income to the LDS church.

    I personally wouldn’t give a nickel to anyone who was unaccountable for the money, except the US government, & them only because I haven’t figured out a way to avoid it without going to jail.

  • Nancy

    Anyway, back to the issue: yeah, I don’t think Romney is viable, but that’s only part of the reason. As noted in the article, he’s a very cold fish even if he is capable, and Gore tanked for the same reason: not Mr. Personality.

  • Mark Bell

    Ok, first off 10% is supposed to be the minimum and the maximum of the tithe people are asked, actually challenged (Malachi 3:8-12) to give. If you don’t give the tithe as challenged or however you want to put it that is the individuals choice to make. The LDS church is all about choices and personal accountability. If one doesn’t give the 10% asked he forfeits the blessings mentioned in the scripture reference. There are other blessings that are associated with tithing because it is a worthiness thing (but that would take a while to discuss) But basically thats all that happens.

    If someone wants to know where that 10% goes it’s quite simple. It goes to provide power, land, etc. to build churches. There is no paid ministry in the church, all the money that goes into the church goes into building and maintaining buildings.

    As for the special drives for “missionary support” amongst other things mentioned, let me be frank that doesn’t happen. There’s forms that people can donate to if they choose to donate to the missionary department or humanitarian aid or a number of other categories. None of this is mandatory.

    The missionary department itself does more than just send young men and women out into the world. It also pays for the commercials for different video’s, books, etc. on TV. All of that is paid for by missionary funds. The missionaries themselves do pay to be out there as best they can, but there are those who are willing to serve but cannot afford to. In that case the church steps in to help with those funds after all the perspective missionary can do to pay for it himself. There’s also a matter of transportation, housing, and more to be taken care of for the young men and women who are out there. All of that is paid for and where lacking supplemented by the missionary fund.

    If you want some more reading or would like to know what the mormons really believe my advice ask a mormon! Here are a few websites I’d suggest taking a look at afterwards I’ll comment on Romney for president.

    http://www.mormon.org (take a look around you’ll figure it out)

    http://www.lds-mormon.com/time.shtml (this is a link to the TIME magazine article about the LDS church which you may be interested in. If you want to find it you can check TIME yourself the article is cited on the page)

    Ok now that I can get off my soapbox… *steps down* Alright as for being president I don’t believe Romney will be elected. But I do believe he’d make a great vice president. The problem is what’s been expressed in the board here, too many people have no idea what the mormons are really like and believe. That will hurt him unfortunately, but if he does get elected vice president people will see that Romney doesn’t have the capability to use “mormon” powers to take over the country and turn people into slaves or whatever. Maybe some more time in the limelight will prove he doesn’t have horns and a tail or whatever. In office as vice president if he distinguishes himself there’s a very good chance that the people will change their views and then maybe in 2012 he can run succesfully for president. Just a thought.

  • Nancy

    I DID ask a Mormon. Several Mormons, in fact, as well as reading quite a bit of material BY Mormons ABOUT Mormons & the LDS church. As you say, it’s a “choice”, but if you make a choice not in accord with the church, you’re also gonna suffer the consequences, which as I have been told BY Mormons, are a little more drastic than just “losing blessings”. Like, say, being pressured to put out the $$ anyway, ostracized in church & out of it, etc. As the saying goes, there are WAYS to get your attention if you don’t tithe & cough up whatever other sums are demanded of you. This is according to people who are lifelong Mormons. They aren’t ex-Mormons. One is a local Stake president.

    A lot of Mormons aren’t aware of some of the less apple-pie-&-mom practices of the LDS church, either in history or current workings. Some of it is only vouchsafed to those who are “advanced”, as the LDS church calls it. Some of it only has come out in the course of criminal investigations – like the Salamander murders in Utah – or other scandals. In any event, the LDS church & its inner workings (especially finances) has always been as secretive & arcane, if not more so, than the Vatican, which is saying something.

  • Nancy

    I just don’t think Romney has the personality to make VP. He’s smart, but he’s got less personality than a wooden cigar store indian (or Al Gore, which is saying something), and the GOP is going to need someone with a helluva lot more charisma than Romney, LDS or no LDS.

  • Lem

    Nancy, I really hope you’re just extremely misguided rather than intentionally sharing such blatant lies.

    For the record, tything or any other donations made to the church are 100% confidential. Members have no way of knowing how much others choose to give (or not give).

  • Simple Guy

    I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (frequently slanged Mormon by those outside the church).

    I believe Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and offers himself as the Savior of the world.

    This is the same Jesus Christ referred to in the Bible. His life and teachings most commonly read about in the New Testament.

    I celebrate Christmas, out of reverence and respect for his birth. I believe he was born in a stable, by the virgin Mary.

    I celebrate Easter, out of reverence for his resurrection. I believe he was crucified on the cross for the sins of the world, and rose again on the third day.

    I believe Christ did many miraculous things throughout his life, including healing the sick, curing the blind, and raising the dead.

    I recognize that it is only through Christ that a person can be saved, and no amount of good deeds or works can allow a person into heaven without him.

    I strive to follow the teachings of Christ. To follow the life that he lived by showing charity and good will to my neighbors.

    I love the Savior Jesus Christ.

    It confuses me that any of my Christian brothers or sisters of other faiths would demean, belittle, or attmept to deny me my faith in Christ.

  • MCH

    So, Nancy…I take it you don’t believe you were ever one of Joseph Smith’s 51 wives in a former life?

    And speaking of scary, Google the Mountain Meadows Massacre sometime…

  • LPJ in Texas

    Ruvy in Jerusalem. You may want to talk to a Rabbi on the subject of the temple garments. The mormons do not use the Aaronic Priesthood garments that were used by the Levites. Instead, they have restored and use the Melchizidek Priesthood garments. You’re Rabbi, if he is knowledgeable on this topic, will be able to explain the difference, including the difference in the markings.

  • Steve

    OK, Simple Guy, just to see if I’m on the same page here, would it be fair to say that you don’t believe Jesus was ‘God in the flesh’???

  • David

    That would be correct Steve, members of the LDS church belive God, Jesus are seperate. Jesus was the son of god.

  • Steve

    OK, Dave, thought so. Do they also believe Jesus is Satan’s brother???

  • David

    Steve, We beleve that Jesus is the son of God. And that Satan is a fallen angle. We also belive that God almight created all things including angles. So my I ask if you belive that Jesus and God almighty are the same?

  • Nancy

    I certainly believe God created angles – angels, too. However, Mormonism remains a ‘scarey’ religion, with highly controversial & unorthodox tenets of belief, like that all males in good standing will become Gods themselves, ruling over their own little universes the same way that God rules over this one, populated by infinite hordes of spirit-children they shall engender with an equally infinite horde of wives. Women, of course, can not aspire to Godhood, just to being the breeding animals for a formerly-human male God. This, and a few other equally showstopping pieces of dogma, are seldom revealed to rank & file Mormons, but only to those who are “advanced” – same as in the RC church where the more esoteric & strange dogmas are reserved for those in Opus Dei.

    I would suggest anyone interested in the nuts & bolts of Mormon history & theology read Fawn Brodie’s “No Man Knows My History”. Herself a good Mormon from an old Mormon family, as well as a trained historian, she writes a very good, rock-solid narrative, warts & all, much to the displeasure of the LDS church leadership who had hoped to keep a lot of LDS church history swept conveniently under the rug.

    And after reading her opus, I can really say, it’s a scarey religion.

  • Steve

    David, are you saying that Jesus is not an angel, like Satan is (albeit a fallen one)??

    I believe in the Trinity, David, that God is 3 persons in one essence, like the Bible teaches i.e. Father, Son & Holy Spirit. All 3 are God.

    Re. Opus Dei, Nancy, I don’t believe that the organisation with that name as depicted in “The Da Vinci Code” holds to all the same beliefs as the one in reality. Be careful with Brown’s book, there is alot of misinformation in there.

  • Nancy

    I meant in referring to them, that just as in the LDS church, some of the more outrageous & esoteric teachings of the upper echelons that would be unacceptable to the rank & file are restricted to those who have proved their unquestioning ingestion of any dogma, no matter how outrageous. Opus Dei is also a scarey organization.

  • David

    Steve, you said “Father, Son & Holy Spirit. All 3 are God” The LDS beleave Father, Son & Holy Spirit. All 3 are Gods. One in porpoise but three seperate beings.

    Matthew 3:12-17 says

    [13] Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
    [14] But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
    [15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
    [16] And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
    [17] And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

    I do not belive god, the holy ghost and jesus are talking to themselves. The Trinity was decided I think by council of Nicea by a bunch of men who belive the heavens were sealed and fought over weather 3=1. Before that time Jesus was concidered the god of this world but not God almighty.

    I hope this give you a better understanding of my belives.

    P.S. Sorry for the spelling.

  • Steve

    Okay, David. So where Christians would consider themselves theists (a belief in one God), you consider yourselves polytheists (a belief in more than one god), then, right?? So, on that point, you have more in common with, say, Hindus, than with Jews, Muslims or Christians?? Right??

  • dot

    Mormonism, so called, is Christianity.

  • Betrayed

    Magic Underwear? Creepy? Given enough time I could come up with a few more. Is it true? Oh YES it sure is! You asked if that person knew any Mormons? Well, My brother, who married a lovely woman, had a son… they bought a trailer and took a tour os the USA. When they got to UTAH, made the terrible mistake of signing the guest book on a tour of a temple or whatever they toured (couldn’t have been a Temple, as only hallowed, special, perfect in all things, are allowed in there to take part in secret, unknown proceedings), in no time flat after they return home, a knock on their door and two 10 foot tall 95 pound soaking wet boys were there to have them sign their lives away to the great God, Joseph Smith. My brother wanted no part of it, but my sister in law signed away, dragged their son into it, then they had a daughter and she was right in (both were) before they could say their own names. My brother allowed it.. went along with it.. supported it.. did everything to ensure they were happy and even defended them when others persecuted them for it… like myself, because I knew better thanks to the “real” Bible wherein it states: “PROVE ALL THINGS, Hold fast to that which is good.” IMO, Mormonism is evil, always was always will be, regardless of how goodie-two-shoes they try to pawn themselves off as.

    Okay, cut to the chase time. My Neice is now 21, she’s been introduced to a boy who just finished his 2 year mission. Can anyone say “Arranged Marriage?” So, they were to marry… only problem being.. DAD who supported her all those 20 years and gave his OKAY to being a Mormon, even though he wasn’t always happy with some of the goings on, was now told because he was NOT a Mormon, that he could not attend the wedding ceremony….why? Because he was not WORTHY!! LOL Family values? “They don’t compromise, they love and care of their families?” Boy, what a pile of doggie-doodoo After you bring up, care for, love unconditionally, a daughter who you want to make SURE she’s protected from some slimy, perverted MAN (that’s they way we all are about our daughters. right)… are NOT going to accept very well, that he will not be allowed to give his own daughters hand away in Marriage! Any father would FREAK if he was robbed of that RIGHT! Well, it happened anyway, under his nose… he even tried to storm the temple (not by force) to be there.. that’s all he wanted.. to BE there to see his daughter being given away. Well, TWO of the Temple Nazis (Guards) grabbed him by the arms and escorted him back outside and said they’d call the police if he tried again. GOOD FAMILY VALUES you say? I say again, Mormonism is a Cult… not Christian in the slightest. They knock on your door carrying a Bible in hand… and as soon as you let them in, the Bible goes back in their satchel and out comes the Book of Mormon, designed to mislead you about the lies of one Joseph Smith, who probably ate too much Peyote one day, saw a vision.. and I could go on for hours, proving it’s all so phony, like it is.

    My nephew… he does his 2 year mission now… this is after my neice is married (Oh, incidently, she no longer talks to her dad.. the Mormon hierarchy forbade her to have any contact with him.. and I guess she’s going along with it). Can anyone say “Mind Control? Brainwashing?” Now, years later she now has 6 kids.. SIX!! Gotta turn Mormon women into baby making machines to drum up millions of drones to feed the church Billions of Dollars, that they use to help people with. HAHAHAHA!! Riiiight…

    So getting back to my nephew, he gets back.. now he’s looking for the promise of a wife… POOF! They found him one… some lonely, homely, not quite the best looking halfwit, and that’s who he’s told is his wife.. so like a dumbed, drugged lemming… he goes along with it. Turns out she’s Barren… so NO KIDS for my nephew.. and he always loved to play with kids…

    Yep, those Mormons, they sure have it down for family values and know how to keep their OWN flock of suckers passified and happy, in a controlled sort of way… almost like an implant to keep them robotized. Hey, maybe it’s the specially formulated coating on the Magic Underwear? That special cloth that protects them from all harm. I’d sure love to be wearing those when my plane get shot out of the sky and I SMACK the earth at 700Mph, and be the ONLY one to walk away unscathed because of my Underwear!

    Who needs HANES, when you got LDS Soiled protection!

    People, just stay away from these weirdos.. they tell you they stand for loving families and all the goodness that’s SUPPOSED to go along with it, but the real truth is… they’ll RUIN your life. Totally.

    Only way you’ll think they’re the best is if you get dragged into it as a toddler too young to speak already…. OR as an adult, if you’re ultra impressionable and easily suckered into any salespitch that sounds too good to be true.

    My brother sure knows NOW that all those times I told him to get them OUT of that cult, that he should’ve listened to ME instead of defending the Mormons. Gads.. what a costly mistake. He’s lost both his kids, and his own marriage almost broke apart because she was totally bamboozled and brainwashed by all the garbage too. It took a LOT of work and convincing to show her what went wrong… and she’s still not 100% convinced.. but at least they’re still together.

    Family Values… HAH nothing could be further from the truth. Pure Evil is what LDS is. The Church of Joseph Smith, of Latter Day Satan.

  • Complicated

    As you celebrate Christmas, or prior to… go look up the origins of Christmas! It’s a Roman Catholic invention and has nothing to do with what you think it does, because even in Jerusalem at that time of year, it is Brrrrr COLD!! Not even cattle are out in the pastures, and you can be sure no intelligent people would be laying in a manger in sub-zero temperatures. lol

    While you’re at it, I strongly suggest you look up the origins of Easter! lol… that should scare the bejesus out of you by itself. It’s based on pagan worship of the sun god, and CERTAINLY has absolutely zero to do with Jesus.

    That’s the problem with all you people who just sit there in your church and accept all the lies and deceit that your leaders feed to you. Why don’t you go LOOK for yourself, what all this means? The REAL truth is in well documented human history that’s been written and recorded long before even the phony teacher that you trust in, learned for himself.

    No one denies you your faith… but first KNOW what it is that you’re accepting before beliving you understand what it means… because until you truly understand what it all means, anyone can come along and get you to believe nothing but lies, just because they’re known to the flock as “Bishop” or any of the other holier-than-thou, self-serving, self-prided, so-called followers of Christ. If they teach and tell you to honour Christmas and Easter (especially Easter! lol) then even they have NO CLUE what they’re promoting, being Pagan Worship of a False God. You actually listen to people like this?

    Be very careful who you trust… go LOOK it up for yourself, don’t let the holier-than-thou Bishop tell you, you’re not allowed to Seek the truth… because Christ is better than your Bishop, and HE said, Seek the Truth, and the Truth will set you FREE.

    It’s time to FREE your mind from the clutches of the Cult of Mormonism.

    Did you know the second “m” in Mormon was silent? (not pronounced)

    Proof? They have an Angel called Moroni. Need I say more? lol

    Moron – I (in Yoda speak, that means “I am a Moron”)

  • VeryScary

    Quote by P. Phillips:

    Some of you might say, “I don’t know any Mormons.” Well, you’ll find them in perhaps some surprising places. Consider these well known Mormons.

    J. Willard Marriott, founder of Marriott Hotels

    Nolan Archibald, CEO Black & Decker

    Steven R. Covey, Chairman of Franklin Covey

    David Neelman, CEO Jet Blue Airlines

    Kevin Rollins, CEO Dell Computer Corporation

    Sports greats: Steve Young, “Jack” Dempsey, Roy Halladay, Wally Joyner, Dale Murphy, Ryne Sandberg, Robin Yount…just to name a few.

    Even Madison Square Gardens is run by a Mormon (Dave Checketts).

    So maybe Mormons aren’t so scary after all eh?

    ————————–

    Actually, the above list makes em a heck of a lot MORE scary, just because of the influence and power (MONEY) that they have control over, and can BUY their way into whatever GLORIFIED role they choose for themselves within the upper echelon. I’m sure Hinckley and any of the above listed people are great friends… because of how much MONEY they can donate.

    It’s just as corrupt and crooked as politics.

    Just seeing that you think these are GREAT people because of their WEALTH, proves how powerful LDS Brainwashing is amongst the Peons.

  • Balderdash

    “You make quite a spokesman for the enemies of the Mormon church.”

    Mormon’s have enemies now too? My, what happened to love your neighbour, family values etc., etc.

    But then here’s me thinking about how Jesus said to turn the other cheek. Hmmmm.. which reminds me that after Joesph Smith shot dead those two guys in cold blooded murder, I guess he figured turning the other cheek didn’t apply to him, now that his personal protector “Moroni” was there to transport him to heaven….er Kolob, yes that’s the place! Kolob.. that dark and dreary gray area that exists in the poor brainwashed minds of his followers…. Maybe you guys have a special comet to take you there? lol

  • george

    As far as romney being a mormon that scares me a bit . I was Once a active card carrying temple reccomend member of the church for over 25 yrs till I found out the real truth about old Joe smith and his magic hat and stone. Unlike many other religions this group is just as fanatic as the extreme Muslims. Granted they don’t drive you out ,or threaten to kill you any more for not joining them {they once did} They don’t call for the nation to be attacked and brought down {though they once did} And they don’t steal and cheap and con folks out of money opps they still do {Like old JOe smith once did }. But they do take orders from their Profit oh I mean prophet , If he says to jump of a building they would do just that. They are a faith based on fear bias and at their core a real bias against blacks ,hispanics and almost all others of color. They won’t say this openly but I have been inside this group when the hair is let down. The magic garments are only one of many things they don’t discuss , they show their distain for all other faiths ,I know I have been there. They take your money, they scare you in a very polite way to get it . If you don’t pay your tithing {ten percent of your Gross income you will not get to be with your loved ones when you die. They are a sick and scary group disguised as being all loving ,that is just an act . I for one could not support anyone who belongs to this group ,heaven forbid we get one as president. If you think born agains are out there you haven’t seen anything yet.

  • Mark Rees

    Wow what a bunch of religious bigots. We are talking about Romney here. We’re not considering electing Joe Smith and his magic underwear. Does Romney represent values better or worse than other candidates? Clinton and Gore wear a religion – they weren’t at all active in their religion, but Romney is and is that supposed to be worse?

    Romney apposes gay marriage. Do you? I suppose we ought to give gays the same headaches we allow straits by allowing them to be contractually obliged to each other. It beats them being performing gay acts on the streets / parks / rest stops. But the real question is how is this different from your view? Most Americans are apposed to gay marriage.

    How does his religious views compare with the other “real” candidates that have a realistic chance at the presidency? Are you saying voting for an atheist or anti-Christ is somehow better than a Mormon? Think people – some polls are so stupid to ask what religion you would vote for… We aren’t voting for a damn religion – we vote for people…let’s study the issues of people.

    Who cares what underwear a guys wears? Come on people; how the hell does this make a difference in how a guy runs the country? Get a grip.

    Judge him on his merits. He isn’t his religion. How does he govern people / look at his history not his churches history. He is not his religion. Is he fair with people? Is he trustworthy? Is he bold and creative? Does he have vision? Name me the people that are better than he is and tell me why? I don’t want blind opinion – if you have a valid reason, give us support for it.

    Bland? I understand he was a huge hit in the recent California fund raising convention and was witty and charming. Name me one person who has seen him in person or spoken to him that agrees that he is dull and lifeless. Good luck.

    Mitt’s a family man. Married for over 36 years and five kids. He is personally against abortion and believes the family unit is the basic structure to protect in a way to build the future of America. – Who disagrees with this – and why?

    I know there has to be intelligent people on this blog. – Let’s stop thinking with a mob mentality and give us reasonable facts on Mitt. Mitt is not his religion.

  • blessed

    A comment here is either very positive and open minded, or just mean-spirited, vicious, slandering, backwards, hatefull, and narrow-minded towards anyone who believes in the modern-day prophet. This negativity and resentment towards Mormons is not how Christ would have you judge others. Christ was not mean-spirited. If you want to be a Christian, then ACT like one!

  • Sam

    I’m a defunct Mormon. So there is my bias. Magic underwear? coercing money? C’mon, grow up. 12 million people don’t keep secrets that well. I think that may be more familiar with the church doctrine and administration than many who’ve previously posted; Enough to know what comments above are lies and which are misunderstood and which could be true. But I don’t think you need to be familiar with the church to be comfortable with one who is a member of it.

    Mitt is Mitt (and a Mormon). I don’t know much about him outside of his claiming to be a faithful member of the LDS church. Which should mean a lot to me (as a defunct member) and very little to those who aren’t familiar with Mormons.
    It seems to me that if people are genuinely concerned with how the Mormon/LDS church could interfere with Mitt’s governance, they should look at the record of Harry Reid (D-Nev), Smith (R-Oregon), Hatch (R-Utah) and, most pertently Mitt himself as governor of Mass.
    The Church does its best to not interfere directly in politics and never tells its members how to vote. Nonetheless, the doctrine is clear on some issues like abortion, homosexuality and drugs. If it did, believe me, it would struggle to maintain tax exempt and out of media cross- hairs.
    So look at him for what he has done to see if he will do what he says he will do. It is that simple.

  • Hannah

    This is politics. Religion has nothing to do with it. Ever hear of a little thing called seperation of Church and State? Anyway, much of the stuff that has been said is not true. If you want to claim that LDS is a cult, but your religion is not, then you are a hypocrite. There is a place for religious hypocrites. Do you know where it is? Hmmm?

    Romney is an honest man and has been proven to be a good leader. Pretend he’s not Mormon. Look at what he stands for and completely ignore his religious beliefes. Would you vote for him now? Yes? I thought so.

  • byran boyle

    This is a defense to the many distorted comments made. And I Hope you will Let this be viewed as you have with others.

    I am a Christian and would maybe chose to vote for a mormon as president, just as I had to chose the lesser of 2 evils and vote for Bush instead of Kerry. The big problem , most informed Christians have with Latter Day Saints is if you speak with a message from the Lord pertaining to future events and give dates when they will occur and all spoken never comes to past when dated you are a False Prophet. Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
    Deuteronomy 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
    Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
    Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
    Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

    Joseph Smith/Young 2 of the first founders have made their self’s False Prophets according to the Bible the Only Word Of God, Gods revealation to man. When the foundation’s are rotten so is the rest no matter how good their intention’s as for other CULTS as well you go to their foundation and you will find False Prophesy have been made on Lord Jesus Christ return for his church. And only Faith in Christ that he died for all mans sins (name them) is sufficent with no other work added to God’s Grace. But only Christ and his work will deleiver you from death.Your best works are like dung to a Pure and Holy Righteous God.

  • byran boyle

    HANNAH Can you send me this info were you find seperation of church and state because I just can’t find it in the constitution or the bill of rights. The only thing I can find even close to what you are refering to is this

    Amendment I
    CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW RESPECTING an ESTABLISMENT of RELIGION,OR PROHIBATING the FREE EXERCISE THEREOF; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

    Amendment II
    A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    Amendment III
    No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

    Amendment IV
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    Amendment V
    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Amendment VI
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

    Amendment VII
    In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

    Amendment VIII
    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Amendment IX
    The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    Amendment X
    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

  • Not mormon

    I live in Utah, I am not Mormon but the Mormon people are very kind. Some of the nicest people I have ever met. It is such a misconception about Mormons.

    There is nothing weird about them at all and they are definetly NOT a cult.

  • Not mormon

    Also just one more thing…

    Who cares about someones religion? Was this country not built on freedom of religion? They can worship what ever they want. It should not matter what someones religion is!!!

  • Troy

    Just what we need, another of the righteous killing in the name and guidance of God . If glen beck and romney represent mormon faith then I bare testimony that it is yet another false religion. Its odd how mormons talk of free agency yet ask no questions.