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Proposition 19 Offers a Unique Opportunity for the Republican Party

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California has drawn a lot of attention in the past because of its initiative and referendum system, which gets controversial issues on the ballot so that the voters of the state can make decisions their elected representatives are often afraid to take a position on. We’re going to see more fireworks this fall when Californians get to vote on Proposition 19, the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010.

There are some rules and restrictions, but basically the proposed bill does exactly what the title says. It would legalize marijuana, regulate its sale, and tax it heavily to help out with California’s near-terminal deficit situation. It would make California the first state in the nation to move beyond just permitting some access to medical marijuana to full-scale and potentially profitable legalization. The other obvious consequences, like a decline in organized crime and moving billions from the underground economy to the public economy, would naturally follow.

Polls in California are tracking the issue closely and show a gathering momentum for legalization, though support is currently trailing opposition 48% to 50% in the latest Reuters poll. That’s within the margin of error and up substantially from where support was only a few weeks ago.

Because it’s not an electoral slam-dunk, politicians are not exactly lining up to endorse Proposition 19. In fact, once and (possibly) future Governor Jerry Brown has gone out of his way to distance himself from the issue, not only not endorsing it, but making some ridiculous statements in opposition to it which have earned him some hostile coverage from the left. It seems likely that in the upcoming meeting of the California Democratic Party they will follow his lead and decide as a party not to endorse legalization as well. They’ll lose voters to the Greens and the Libertarians and Meg Whitman will benefit as a result, and maybe having a businesswoman in charge will help out the financially troubled state.

Of course, this situation does create an opportunity for anyone smart enough to take advantage of it. The proposition is growing in popularity and just hanging out there with no formal backing outside of the legalization activist community. Wouldn’t it be amazing if the California Republican Party—which has occasionally made some very radical and unexpected decisions—were to take a serious look at the state’s dire financial need and the potential benefits of legalization and decide to endorse Proposition 19?

This scenario was laid out in a recent diary on DailyKos, which more than a few Republicans I talked to read and took seriously. Some were shocked and others were excited. The article is sarcastic and intended to make fun of various Republican concerns, but it accidentally reads rather like a believable account of real events. It’s fashionable among Republicans to butt heads with the federal government right now, and going against the drug war and declaring a sovereign right to regulate marijuana and profit from taxes on it would be a brilliant example of the kind of independence which a lot of Republican activists are pushing for.

Republicans are supposed to be fiscal conservatives and in favor of individual liberty, entrepreneurs, and businesses. A measure like this, which would raise billions in tax revenue and create a huge new business sector and lots of legitimate jobs, is exactly what California needs desperately, and no one is offering them a better solution. Rationally, Republicans ought to jump at the idea. All they need to do is put aside the archaic idea that marijuana is somehow more immoral than other sins we currently tolerate — a stance which looks pretty hypocritical at a political fundraiser while you’re chugging martinis.

As it stands right now the issue is up to the fickle voters and how much interest groups on both sides can influence the public (I wonder if the drug cartels have a PAC?). But if the Republican party stepped in with even a lukewarm endorsement it would shake California politics up and probably give them an unprecedented sweep in the general election. Voters from the left would cross over in droves and all the Republican party would have to do is make sure the also held on to their core constituents.

All they have to do to keep Republicans on board is make the argument on the grounds of states’ rights, individual liberty, and fiscal responsibility. I’ve made that argument with some of the most traditional Republicans I know and won over more than a few converts. If your mind is at all open it’s hard to reject the logic behind legalizing marijuana as an alternative to raising taxes. If it also means thumbing your noses at the feds then in the current environment it’s a real winner.

The California GOP doesn’t have to be this creative. They can stay in their safe little box and probably do respectably in the fall. It won’t be all that hard to beat Governor Moonbeam again. But in other states Republicans are anticipating extraordinary victories. A cautious strategy will leave California far behind other state Republican parties in the gains they rack up. Seizing the initiative and endorsing Proposition 19 would drive them to such a dominant victory over the Democrats that they would make history and leave every other state party green with envy.

Desperate times call for desperate measures and setting timidity aside. Why not be bold? Why not be defiant? Why not strike a blow for liberty?

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About Dave Nalle

Dave Nalle is Executive Director of the Texas Liberty Foundation, Chairman of the Center for Foreign and Defense Policy, South Central Regional Director for the Republican Liberty Caucus and an advisory board member at the Coalition to Reduce Spending. He was Texas State Director for the Gary Johnson Presidential campaign, an adviser to the Ted Cruz senatorial campaign, Communications Director for the Travis County Republican Party and National Chairman of the Republican Liberty Caucus. He has also consulted on many political campaigns, specializing in messaging. Before focusing on political activism, he owned or was a partner in several businesses in the publishing industry and taught college-level history for 20 years.
  • Jerry Brown must be reacting to his own past as a pothead.

  • Rubblebeam

    C’mon Republicans, you can do this, I have only voted Dem once, please don’t let this turn into a habit!

  • Can’t see either party swinging behind this. It would require too much thinking outside the bong.

  • Baronius

    “All they need to do is put aside the archaic idea that marijuana is somehow immoral”

    Really, Dave? That’s been settled, we’ve finally overthrown the old-fashioned idea that drugs ruin lives? It must have been due to all the academic and professional success of potsmokers, the evidence that marijuana isn’t addictive or harmful, and the discovery that no one commits serious crimes when they’re high.

  • Baromius, do you want to ban alcohol, then? Alcohol is more addictive and more damaging to the user than marijuana and it’s legal. So long as that is true there is zero rational justification for a ban on marijuana.


  • Clean_Living

    90% of statistics are made up on the spot. And 88% of them are about the Drug War.

    Opponents of the Drug War are making up statistics out of whole cloth. They are badly misusing and manipulating statistics in order to press their case.

    Opponents of the Drug War rely on a few central claims in arguing for the legalization of drugs. One is that “the Drug War is causing violence in Mexico”. Sorry legalizers. Drug users are causing the violence in Mexico. Another is that “prohibition has failed,” and that therefore we should stop criminalizing drug use. I suppose legalizers would also support decriminalizing child abuse. then, when a user isn’t able to get his dose, he could cause brain damage to a child with a well worn pair of brass knuckles. But hye! At least it would be legal. But perhaps the most oft-heard claim is that drugs are “less dangerous” than tobacco and alcohol. Drug War opponents make this claims armed with reams of statistics. Alas, they are misreading and misrepresenting the data at hand.

    “Hard drugs are less harmful than alcohol and tobacco.” (We’ll leave marijuana out of this for now.) This claim is a mainstay of the anti-Drug War arsenal of arguments. “Alcohol, tobacco, more dangerous than illegal drugs,” reports a piece on CBS News. Another anti-drug war outlet, drugwarfacts.org, highlights the fact that alcohol kills far more people than hard drugs in any given year. True/Slant’s own Allison Kilkenny, in a comment on a post that she wrote arguing for the legalization of drugs, said that “cocaine isn’t any more dangerous than alcohol, tobacco, and/or unhealthy foods like trans fat,” and then used the figures cited above as proof.

    Yet this is a deceptive way to present the data, and a little simple arithmetic proves this.

    Let’s first accept the claim, made by Drugwarfacts.org, that 85,000 Americans die per year as a result of alcohol use, and that 17,000 die as a result of hard drugs. According to the data from drugwarfacts.org, 128.97 million Americans drink in a given month. (We’ll go with monthly statistics, because those count more regular drinkers.) If 85,000 of those 128.97 million die as a result of drinking in a given year, that means that the annual death rate from drinking is .0659%.

    Now let’s look at hard drugs. Drugwarfacts.org tells us that 2.4 million Americans use cocaine, crack, or heroin – so-called “hard drugs” – in a given month. If 17,000 die annually as a result, then the annual death rate from hard drugs is .708%. In other words, hard drug use is many times more dangerous than alcohol use. And bear in mind that these figures are based on statistics provided by an organization that supports the legalization of drugs.

    Of course, anyone who has ever known a serious drug addict will recognize how deadly hard drugs are. That’s why Drug War opponents have use “data” to make a case that seems fallacious on its face. But by failing to account for the fact that alcohol is much more widely used than hard drugs, drug war opponents are misrepresenting the facts: they are failing to account for per-capita deaths. This would be akin to claiming that driving a car down the highway is more dangerous than taking a barrel over Niagra Falls, because 26,000 Americans die per year in car crashes, and only a few have died in barrel accidents.

    We live in an era where “expertise” is a vaunted trait. Arguments are more readily accepted if they are backed up with data and statistics. That’s why Drug War opponents like to cite numbers such as the ones above to press their case.

    But, in this case, the opponents of the War on Drugs are badly misrepresenting substantive data. Talk about substance abuse.

  • What should morality have to do with anything, Baronius? What happened to this Free Will your Church is always offering up as the explanation for why seven-eighths of the world’s population hasn’t been struck down by thunderbolts despite not being Catholic?

    What a person does to their own body is their own business. The existing criminal code should surely be adequate to deal with whatever that person might do next.

  • Clean_Living: (We’ll leave marijuana out of this for now.)

    For now? You never put it back in.

    The article discusses a proposition to legalize marijuana. Yet you base your argument solely on the effects of hard drugs, specifically disregarding marijuana.

    That’s both disingenuous and a straw man.

    Unless, perhaps, you’d care to follow it up by providing some figures comparing the death rate from marijuana use with that from alcohol use.

  • Clean_Living

    Dr_Dreadful – You think you are very clever don’t you? One is three automobile deaths is caused by THC being in a persons body when they die needlessly in a wreck. But they don’t just take kill themselves do they? No, they often times take children with them. So shove that in your pipe and smoke it druggie.

  • And 75% of fatal crashes involved the use of alcohol. Your point?

  • Conservative Christian

    All of the prohibitionists’ arguments boil down to a single point: If my child (or yours) gets a little off track and starts using marijuana, the prohibitionists want to put them in PRISON. Prison is not good for my kids or for yours, and it’s much worse than the effects of marijuana, so we can pretty well disregard all of the prohibitionist nonsense about keeping it illegal “to protect the children.” I hope my kids steer clear of marijuana, but I REALLY hope that if they do use a little marijuana, they don’t end up in prison and don’t have to pay the prohibitionist “treatment” cronies in order to remain free and productive.

    If you’re a California citizen (or if you want to pass this along to any California citizens), Californians can register to vote by completing the online form and mailing it to the address on the form.

  • Miles

    Hey Clean_living, I agree, Cocaine and Heroin suck. I don’t think many people push for those to be legalized. I personally know the hardships of opiate-related drug use. It isn’t a pleasant place. (No better or worse than Alcohol personally)

    But some “Drugs” are illegal for no reason besides the fact they get you “High” Just ONE of those is Marijuana(Yes, there are others), the one you left out of your argument….In response to an article about Marijuana… I wonder why…

    “One is three automobile deaths is caused by THC being in a persons body when they die needlessly in a wreck.”
    I can go drive right now, sober and clean, and get in a wreck. I smoked a few days ago. THC WOULD be in mys system. Plus, most of these accidents have alcohol involved too. It’s a sorry argument. Especially when it lacks a source.

  • Clean_Living

    Dr. Dreadful – Your myopic short sightedness is easily predictable. My point is that children shouldn’t needlessly have to die in fiery car crashes because you can’t get through your day without a dose of reefer.

  • Clean_Living

    Conservative Christian (yeah right) – What you socialist libturds have the rest of us do? Would you like to go around smoking reefers and killing children? But then when you get thrown into prison for being a terrifying menace, you want the rest of us to pay for your treatment? Pfffft!

  • Clean_Living: Do you always resort to personal abuse to respond to those who disagree with you?

    Your assumption that I am a ‘druggie’ is also predictable.

    And your point is blunt, because children (sob) shouldn’t needlessly have to die in fiery car crashes for whatever reason. Accidents happen, though, sadly. And a significantly larger number of them are caused by alcohol than are caused by marijuana. Those are the facts, sunshine.

  • Miles

    “Dr. Dreadful – Your myopic short sightedness is easily predictable. My point is that children shouldn’t needlessly have to die in fiery car crashes because you can’t get through your day without a dose of reefer.”

    I feel a bit of…false dilemma coming about. Maybe some ad hominem.

    Why do you feel the need to attack people, as you just did to Conservative Christian? Do you realize your argument is lacking so that’s the only alternative?

    You truly sound ignorant. “Would you like to go around smoking reefers and killing children?” and anyone who reads that line will be able to tell.

    But now I know that whenever someone tokes up, they’ve magically transformed into a terrifying menace.
    I find you to be more of a menace than any average toker. Misinformation and ignorance is deadly.

  • Clean_Living

    Whatever man.

  • Miles

    Ah! A response that finally -somewhat- makes sense! If I were this ignorant and misinformed, I’d concede too.

  • Clean_Living

    I concede nothing. I have made my irrefutable points. And you people have made no effort to respond to them. I have done my part. Now, you will have to deal with Jesus on the day of judgement (or at the moment of your death in a fiery, reefer inspired car wreck) for not heeding my word. You can consider me Christ’s front man. You had your chance druggie.

  • I’m starting to get the impression that Clean_Living is pulling our legs…

  • Miles

    What the hell are you supposed to be? “for not heeding my word” You make yourself sound like a prophet of God. Stop assuming, it makes you look more of a tool than you already are. I’m Christian, and people like you are why non-Christians have such a distaste for Christianity. Your love for your religion consumes your love for fellow humans and for God. For being Christ’s front man you don’t seem to follow his teachings of love. Maybe you mix up your silly personal attacks for love.

    Look, none of your points are absolute and irrefutable, we argued them, and you plugged your ears and hummed to yourself. Both myself, and Dr, responded. Ironically, YOU did not. Your argument is flawed, full of half-truths, and lacks all logic… come to think of it…

    I’m starting to assume you are a troll, and can no longer be taken seriously, no one could be this intentionally stupid. I’d rather no longer waste my time with a silly troll.

  • Miles

    Indeed mate, now I feel silly for being trolled so well. It happens to me on such issues though, oh well.

  • Yes on 19

    I hardly ever agree with anything Republicans believe in, but totally agree with stopping the idiotic, wasteful war on Cannabis. See, we can have a bipartisan issue with can ALL believe in…Yes on 19.

  • Indeed mate, now I feel silly for being trolled so well.

    It was when he crossed the rhetorical line from ineptitude into caricature that I started to wonder… 🙂

  • Baronius

    Dread, free will doesn’t obviate the need for government. Even I admit that there has to be a government for some things. It’s part of my duty as a member of a free society to promote the policies that I think would be good.

    I’m ambivalent about the prohibition of alcohol. As a practical matter, it doesn’t work, and there’s no reason for a government to try to do the impossible. But I’d have no problem moving to a “dry” county, or voting that way.

    As a conservative, I don’t want to see laws get worse, so I don’t want to see marijuana become legal. I want to conserve the best of the laws and traditions we have. It’s a delicate balance. The deciding factor in this case is that it’s not my state. We can trust the voters of California to mess up horribly, because they usually do, but it’s their call.

  • I’m ambivalent about the prohibition of alcohol. As a practical matter, it doesn’t work, and there’s no reason for a government to try to do the impossible.

    By far the best reason, together with the extravagant waste of money, for abolishing this ridiculous “War on Drugs”.

  • “One is three automobile deaths is caused by THC being in a persons body when they die needlessly in a wreck.

    I’d really like to see your evidence on this one, since THC stays in the system for a month with no debilitating effects, guaranteeing a trace level of THC in lots of unimpaired drivers. Plus recent studies suggest that marijuana may actually improve driver attentiveness.


  • I concede nothing. I have made my irrefutable points.

    Clear evidence that arrogance does not convey intelligence.


  • Really now, you might be Clean Living, but you sure ain’t clean thinking when you say “One is three automobile deaths is caused by THC being in a persons body when they die needlessly in a wreck.”

    Really now, you have to know better than that nonsense when you say it. You might be on closer ground if you cited your statistic to make just the claim that one in three people smoke pot.

    As point was made previously, you’re really just saying that 1/3 of accident victims have THC in their body (wherever exactly you got that statistic from), meaning that they’ve had some within the last month or so.

    Besides which, even if someone was actually high on weed when they got in a wreck, that doesn’t mean at all that the weed caused the wreck. Anyone with experience in the real world will tell you that weed is entirely different than alcohol, and does not have anything near like the effect on reaction time or depth perception, etc. The fact that you’re feeling good does not automatically mean that it f’s up your driving.

    Plus, Proposition 19 offers not just a direct appeal to voters this fall, but a chance to redeem the perceived legitimacy of the critically important and abused idea of “states rights.” It lets you flip the important idea of states rights from an archaic issue in defense of wick segregationists into a much more righteous and relevant current issue.

  • I’d really like to see your evidence on this one, since THC stays in the system for a month with no debilitating effects

    It’s actually more like a week to three weeks.

  • Clean_Living: One is three automobile deaths is caused by THC being in a persons body when they die needlessly in a wreck.

    No that’s about the percentage for booze, not THC. For THC, the percentage is much lower, like 6% or so. And correlation does not prove causality. THC metabolites can be detected days or weeks after using it, not just while impaired. So your statistic is meaningless.

    Also, if pot is legalized, it will still be illegal to drive under the influence. And those that will drive stoned then are the same people who are doing it now.

  • 100% of drivers have oxygen in their bodies; maybe we should make it illegal too?

    My perception has been that driving whilst stoned is better if you get into driving but worse if you get distracted, but that is also true of talking or listening to music whilst driving.

  • “we’ve finally overthrown the old-fashioned idea that drugs ruin lives?”

    Yeah. Imagine how much better life could have been for Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney, Willie Nelson, Jack Nicholson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sarah Palin, Bill Clinton, Jeff Bridges, Mick Jagger, Andrew Sullivan, Brad Pitt, Quentin Tarantino, Michael Phelps, etc if they hadn’t smoked pot.

    “the discovery that no one commits serious crimes when they’re high.”

    How many people commit serious crimes when they are sober? I get that you are against it so vote your conscience when you are able, but don’t kid yourself that you are informed about the issue.

  • I haven’t researched the matter, but understand that federal laws prohibit the sale and use of marijuana even for legitimate medicinal purposes. Despite the announcement by Attorney General Holder that the federal government would avoid going after legitimate medical use of marijuana, the federal laws — enforced or not — sort of like federal immigration laws, remain on the books.

    The Holder Justice Department recently sued Arizona on the theory that its new immigration laws are unconstitutional on the theory of implied, as distinguished from explicit, federal preemption.

    Perhaps there is a difference between what is being proposed in California (which I think is a good idea) and what Arizona has done (which I also think was a good idea), but it does not immediately occur to me.


  • Baronius

    I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make, El B. Willie Nelson screwed up his life with his various addictions. Arnold Schwarzenegger’s drug use will cause his early death. In only a couple of the cases you listed could it be claimed that drug use helped their “art”. But how about the millions of counter-examples?

  • The point is you don’t know what you are talking about.

    What are facts do you have that Willie screwed up his life and Arnold’s will be ending early due to their marijuana use.

    You have yet to offer one counter example let alone millions.

  • James Joyce wrote Ulysses on white wine; he was half-blind. Hemingway was an incorrigible alcoholic; yet he left a body of works for all posterity. Balzac’s voluminous production has been “inspired” by strong black coffee spiked with bourbon; he was forced into incessant writing by his creditors.

    Who is to say that their lives weren’t worth living, that they wasted their time?

  • Clean_Living

    Sometimes I get a little carried away with my religious zealotry. I am formally diagnosed with bi-polar type II disorder and take seroquel. Sorry about being so preachy earlier.

    Here is the proof of my statement about 1/3 of all accidents being caused by marijuana smokers. “In one study conducted in Memphis, TN, researchers found that, of 150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine.” That’s a NIDA statistic. Thre are more stories are all over the internet. Just look at this one where the driver killed three people, and then they caught him with marijuana. So they arrested him.

    SAMSHA says that “Marijuana can seriously affect your sense of time and your coordination PDF, impacting things like driving. In the second half of 2003, nearly 80,000 people were admitted to emergency rooms suffering from marijuana-related problems.”


  • Heart Governer

    Hey Clean-living are you so ignorant of your own religion that you do not understand that the ingredient that was in the oil that anointed Jesus is exactly what you seem not to like…..And that on the very first page of the bible of which I’m sure your religion believes is sacred says and I quote “Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds.” And it was so. The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good”……..Now Hemp Cannabis all produce seed…..Do you understand that you are the one who will have to answer to Jesus for a needless unfounded persecution of your fellow man….And that to argue for the prohibition of cannabis is tantamount to denying that which your lord has provided for you, in essence denying god himself…….And that Chances are you are no better than the devil and would rather be free in hell that serve in heaven….Clean-Living you are a monster A Demon and the scum of the earth for chances are you are the devil put on earth to deny God’s creations and stray people from the righteous path. One can only pray that you will not remain in such a state for long for it would turn your insides into acid and every word from your mouth poison. The meaning of life is to appreciate and realize the goodness of all God’s creations not destroy them….Do you realize that you are arguing with a majority that disagrees with you and that you are in the minority……And that all statistics put forth by man are faulty because they are not perfect and probably made up……and that when the book which you should consider the word of God says “Hey I made everything that produces seed and it’s good for you” to deny that is simply the renunciation of God for you look upon with disgust His creation……realize everything I have said is fact…..and should the day come when you will get Aids or Cancer that you not find one single Trichome of THC to relieve your pain…….and Next time you want to parade your faith and self-righteousness of which you have none look into the face of a terminally ill patient and tell them God’s creation is not medicine and die, for every second you spend Denouncing that which God made you bring just a little bit more evil into the world……..Which we have abound because people like you are not told to not utter a word for like the blind leading the blind you and everyone who agrees with you is a hopeless moron, and worse people that we have to live with………….And Jesus spoke of forgiveness so I hope you pray for forgiveness from every sick person you hurt and from Jesus and I can’t speak for him though I hope that he won’t have any forgiveness for you……..Good Day….

  • Heart Governer

    And Clean-Living should you need proof that cannabis was in fact an ingredient in the holy anointing oil

    It goes on to say that god even reprimanded the Israelites for not giving God his due of Cannabis

    “you have not brought any kaneh for me, or lavished on me the fat of your sacrifices. but you have burdened me with your sins and wearied me with your offences” . – Isaiah 43:23-24

    Truer words have never been spoken….

  • pablo

    clean living

    If your an example of sobriety, please allow me to use you as an example of your obviously flawed and prejudiced logic. Before I do, if I were to use you as an example, and thereby conclude that all people that are clean as you are are as dumb and ignorant as well, it would be using the same sort of half-assed non logic that you have used in your so called case study.

    First of all Clean, you maintained in comment 9, and I quote you on this said:

    “One is three automobile deaths is caused by THC being in a persons body when they die needlessly in a wreck.”

    Then as proof of your asinine assertion you provide so called proof in comment 38 by referencing a study on a government propaganda page that itself offers no footnnotes or details except in a very broad and un-scientific manner.

    Furthermore Clean, the study says quite clearly that and I quote from the page referenced:

    “150 reckless drivers who were tested for drugs at the arrest scene, 33 percent tested positive for marijuana, and 12 percent tested positive for both marijuana and cocaine.”

    you then provide this as proof that 1 in 3 accidents involve THC in the blood. If you had of been stoned as I was when reading your flawed logic you would have seen how utterly elementary and absurd your conclusions were. The study in question says very clearly that these involved reckless drivers and arrested. Gee, that must mean Clean, that ALL accidents are caused by reckless drivers! Wow, why didn’t I think of that?

    your brain cells obviously need to be stimulated pal, and it is my opinion that if they were coated with some high quality cannibinoids you just might possibly come to your senses!

    I am afraid however even after reading my post which so clearly shows the absurdity of your claims, you will cling to them, as any right wing fundamentalist would. Just as you more than likely cling to the absurd belief that the world was created in 7 days because it was written in a book!

    Oh and Clean? I have been smoking pot for approximately 43 years on a daily basis. I not only do not believe that the world was created in 7 days, I could outdrive you any fucking day of the week. I also have not had ONE accident or DUI in that time. I drive stoned too pal.

    Indeed Clean it is people like yourself that makes me very proud that I am a stoner, and I thank you for that.

    You do not need a joint Clean you need a brain transplant.

  • Clean_Living

    I’ll have to attend to this business of Hebrew preists being annointed with cannabis oil later. Needless to say that they would be way to loaded out of theri gourd to be able to to their duties. But for now I am still focused on this matter of how dangerous marijuana is to drivers…and MY safety, and the safety of MY family when we’re on the road. I’m going to stay up a bit late and put some of my manic energy to good use and prepare a piece that will blow your guy’s minds that marijuana and driving is probably about as dangerous to America’s roads as Jeffrey Dahmer was to young gay men. Come morning, you’ll see….and then you’ll know!

    In the meantime I’m glad to see that some of you read teh Bible, even if you do have a distorted view of things. We can set that striaght though later.

    Good night my new friends.

  • pablo

    Are you sure your striaght Clean?

  • pablo

    Oh, and I dont read teh bible, but I did read another book! It is called “Teh Wizard of OZ”, prehaps yuou have hoard of it. I am currently folloing the yello Brikc Road! It was written by the Almighty herself!

    Wow this shit is potent man! Unlike some I am stritcly a recreational usor!

  • Milesopi

    “will blow your guy’s minds that marijuana and driving is probably about as dangerous to America’s roads as Jeffrey Dahmer was to young gay men.”

    Oh I know! I know this one! uh…..ad….absurdum!

  • pablo

    Oh and one more thing Clean, in the same government propaganda page it says:

    “Data have also shown that while smoking marijuana, people show the same lack of coordination on standard “drunk driver” tests as do people who have had too much to drink.”

    I have one thousand dollars Clean that I would put up against your 500, that after smoking 3 joints of California’s finest sensimillan marijuana in succession, that I would pass the sorbriety test with flying colors, I am not being feces-tious either. Care to make a quick grand Clean? Put your money where your mouth is, I will. You?

    I think not. Hell (oops) we could have a blog critics party while doing it, provided Nalle aint invited. 🙂

  • I seriously doubt D voters are going to go single issue on Prop 19 against Brown, not in this election.

    If anything people will vote for 19 and Brown, regardless of his stance on marijuana.

    As for Baronius’ handwringing about CA voters, you’re right about that. Conservative voters graced the world with Nixon and Reagan, made Arnold governor and have put Whitman and Fiorina on their ballot. And liberal voters let you. So yeah, anything is possible.

  • Higher_Dimensional_Mathematician

    Miles Said:
    “I’m starting to assume you are a troll, and can no longer be taken seriously, no one could be this intentionally stupid.”

    You wanna bet? Check out this witch (spelled with a B).

    Try to imagine a 2005 Asian tsunami of dumb… on copious quantities of the earth’s very finest steroids. Then you will begin to perhaps barely glimpse the idiocy that tends to define true, blue drug warriors vis-a-vis this woman named Linda Taylor a.k.a. Activist1.


  • Higher_Dimensional_Mathematician

    “Desperate times call for desperate measures and setting timidity aside. Why not be bold? Why not be defiant? Why not strike a blow for liberty?”

    Because the neo-conservative branch of the Republican party is still too dominant in the party. Those people are ape-like creatures to whom every bad Polack joke actually, really does apply.

    Try presenting the material in this very fine article to a neo-con, and what you will see is the following: A guy with the forefinger of his right hand shoved deep into his left nostril; and his right hand will be shoved down the back of his slacks and will be scratching his left cheek. If you listen really good, you will hear the guy quietly singing “The Old Gray Mule Just Ain’t What She Used to Be”. Then, when you get done making your case, you will have to wave your hand in front of the neo-con’s face in order to get its attention…at which point the ape-like thing in front of you will commence to explain how needful it is to put millions of more people in jail over cannabis.

    The magnitude of my dissapointment with the Republican party is on a scale of truly galactic proportions. And the Tea Patiers are turning out to be just as bad. Sharon Angle for example has actually made a public statement that she would like to use federal power to reinstitute ALCOHOL prohibition.

    These people are pathetic in a way that…well….adjectives capable of describing the raw, unchained, totally unfettered worthlessness of the Republican party haven’t even been invented yet.

  • Clean_Living

    Okay druggies! Here you go. I can’t WAIT to see how you repsond to this!

    Risky driving behavior in young people: prevalence, personal characteristics and traffic collisions … that they’re deceived into thinking they’re driving safely, does NOT protect your loved ones!

    The state of Oregon issues driver’s licenses to people who they’ve also issued “pseudo-legal” authorization to use a drug which impairs driving.

    In that respect, drug users and legislators are endangering you and your family.

    Your family is worth protecting by expressing your will to our legislators – users need to be taken off the streets and roadways – for legislators to continue to allow drug users to also drive is MALPRACTICE / MALFEASANCE in office!

    Risky driving behavior in young people: prevalence, personal characteristics and traffic collisions
    OBJECTIVES: This research aimed to examine the prevalence of risky driving behaviour among young people, the characteristics of those who engage in risky driving behaviour, and the association between risky driving behaviours and accident risk. METHODS: Data were gathered during the course of the Christchurch Health and Development Study. As part of this longitudinal study, data were gathered on self-reported risky driving behaviours (18-21 years), traffic accidents (18-21 years) and a variety of individual characteristics for 907 participants who reported having driven a motor vehicle.

    RESULTS: More than 90% of drivers engaged in some form of risky driving behaviour. Those most likely to engage in frequent risky driving behaviors were: males (p < 0.0001), who exhibited alcohol (p < 0.0001) or cannabis abuse (p < 0.001) in adolescence, who were involved in violent/property crime (p < 0.01) and who affiliated with delinquent or substance-using peers (p < 0.05). There was a strong (p < 0.0001) association between the extent of risky driving behavior and traffic accident risk. CONCLUSIONS: Risky driving behaviors are common among young people, particularly among young males prone to externalizing behaviors (substance abuse, crime and affiliations with deviant peers). Risky driving is strongly linked to traffic accident risk. IMPLICATIONS: There is a continued need to target risky driving behaviors among young people. Efforts to reduce risky driving should be targeted in particular at the high-risk group of young males prone to externalizing behaviors. More generally, the results suggest the need for a multi-strategy approach to the reduction of traffic accidents that focuses on the full spectrum of risky driving behaviors.

  • Leonard Krivitsky, MD, DD

    It is interesting that the opponents of Prop. 19 call themselves “Public safety first”. And this is when it has been conclusively shown by experts that Cannabis use suppresses violent behavior (as opposed to alcohol), and that Cannabis can even be potentially useful in addiction treatment, that is in helping people stay off booze and dangerous hard drugs or prescription drugs. Mexican drug cartels also oppose Legalization because if Cannabis is legalized all their illegal distribution networks are no longer needed. Recent scientific Conference in LA also stressed that current situation is unacceptable and unsustainable, and that it is supported by “prison-industrial complex” in this country because those are the people who benefit financially from more prisons and more prisoners. The so-called “public safety first” campaign against Proposition 19 is simply not entitled to use this name for their lies and distortions, because if we talk about “public safety”, it is the supporters of Prop. 19 and not its opponents who really care about it. Public safety will be much better served if the Proposition passes, rather than if it fails!

  • Clean_Living (so you were not pulling our legs – you really are that irrational), I’m not sure what this study you cite is supposed to prove.

    So, young men tend to engage in risky driving behaviours. What you overlook is that young men are the socioeconomic group most likely to engage in risky behaviours, period.

    Perhaps, on these grounds, we should ban not only drugs but also cars, alcohol, dirt bikes, jetskis, guns, skateboards, gasoline, cigarette lighters, propane and the myriad other things which young guys are occasionally known to employ in their relentless pursuit of acting like complete twats.

    Quite appropriately, there are laws in place which inflict penalties for driving under the influence of alcohol or illegal drugs, and for other kinds of reckless driving. Those laws should be quite sufficient.

    Alcohol itself, however, is legal; marijuana is not. What you have signally failed to do – since your claim that the latter causes more accidents than the former is easily disproven – is to argue even remotely convincingly why this paradox makes sense.

  • Heart Governer

    Hey Clean-Living if driving high is so dangerous then logically their wouldn’t be anymore potsmokers left, because according to you and bogus statistics everyone who drives while high should have been killed already, So with your statistics if driving high is dangerous how come people who smoke pot and drive are still around? If driving high were as dangerous as you claim then everyone who drove high would have been in a crash and died and taken alot of people with them…..and that is just not the case…..for the simple fact that pablo who has done it for 43 years seems to luck out and never crash and he is still around why hasn’t he become a statistic? because its all bogus…..and the fact that you stick to fraudulent stats is probably more of a tragedy then we can all guess. For chances are you have been brainwashed so severely that you can’t see the truth…..We should all be afraid of the severe condition in which you are in because we all could have been in such a position……and I apologize for such a tirade and I had no idea that you were bi-polar, I know thats not a joke, And I hope as I am sure many others have posted on this list that you would try cannabis to treat your disorder cause a medicine like seroquel which I’m sure has the side effect of risk of suicide should never have been prescribed to someone with such a disorder because medications like that alter brain chemistry and are probably altering the way in which your mind is working at this very moment, but I’m not a doctor……Though anybody with a conscious could see that you can’t tell somebody who is dieing slowly from wasting syndrome that you cannot take a drug that will open up your appetite. and Hebrew priests using cannabis in anointing oil its fact they found the archaelogical evidence tested the samples they found cannabis….And God even reprimanded the Israelites for not giving him cannabis…..Now you gonna tell God Almighty that he can’t have a joint……..?

  • Christopher, re #32, 100% of drivers have oxygen in their bodies; maybe we should make it illegal too?

    The problem is being worked on, but first we must ban carbon dioxide.

    Doc, re #52 — I agree and am delighted to see your apparent support (?) for the right to bear arms:>).


  • Dan(), I support both the right to bear arms and reasonable regulation of same.

    A friend of ours is a passionate defender not only of his right to bear arms, but also of his right to the rest of the bear, which he shot himself and is prominently mounted in a ferocious posture in his living room.

    His wife rather wishes it would go either (a) away, or failing that, (b) to the garage.

  • Daniel

    I signed to put the measure on the ballot, though this article is misleading. The proposition would not actually regulate industrial or commercial uses of Cannabis. It does legalize personal use. Straight up. Legalizes personal possession of up to an ounce I believe and as many plants as you can grow in 25 square feet. The tax and regulate parts come from its mandate of local governments to create the laws that will govern the commercial and industrial use of the plant and its byproducts.


  • The proposition as reported by an apparently official or quasi official California website provides that

    Persons over the age of 21 may possess up to one ounce of marijuana for personal consumption.

    May use marijuana in a non-public place such as a residence or a public establishment licensed for on site marijuana consumption.

    May grow marijuana at a private residence in a space of up to 25 square feet for personal use.

    It recognizes that

    Marijuana is illegal under federal laws. If marijuana becomes legal in California under state law, it will still be federally illegal. The U.S. Supreme [Court] has previously ruled that federal agents can arrest medical marijuana users and growers even though Proposition 215 [enacted in 1996] makes that behavior legal in California.

    I think it is a worthwhile experiment, and one of the many advantages of having individual states is to permit such experiments to be conducted where a majority of the population wants them.

    Were I a California resident, I would vote for it and anticipate an attack by the federal Department of Justice as unconstitutional under the doctrine of federal preemption. I think the DOJ would fail in that effort.


  • Milesopi

    I think clean living leaves us with two options, either ban everything you can think of, or place him and his family in a cushioned room. Since he’s obviously worried a rampant teen-aged male is going to crash through the house at any moment.

    Really, if you are legit, you are the worst kind of person. You sound like a sheep, ready to trade all of your freedom and liberty in the name of ‘safety’.

    I find it funny you have such a great distaste for marijuana, and you’re on some shitty sedative for being bipolar(Even more shitty because it’s obviously not helping you). Most pharms are worse than marijuana by a longshot.

  • doug m

    Clean living is so over the top is his anti-pot stance, he comes across like the anti-gay preachers and politicians who have something to hide.

    I admit I haven’t taken the time to read all his lengthy screeds but has there been an admission that he has replaced his marijuana abuse with that of Christ abuse through some 12-step program?

  • Jordan Richardson

    I just abused a little Christ about a half hour ago on the patio. Minty.

  • Hello Baronius,

    You imply in # 4 that people commit violent crimes under the influence of marijuana.

    the discovery that no one commits serious crimes when they’re high.

    Alcohol, pharmaceuticals and cocaine are far more dangerous than pot. The fact that you don’t provide a link to support your comment tells it all ( talking point).

    Still, if the republican party were to endorses true freedom for all, then even I would have to rethink my allegiance.


  • clean_living

    You appear to use religion to control others and puff yourself up.

    Maybe you should puff a little pot. I bet it would do you some good.

  • for legislators to continue to allow drug users to also drive is MALPRACTICE / MALFEASANCE in office!

    What an utter red herring. No one is suggesting that driving while impaired will be any more legal after this law. The two are totally unrelated. Driving when drunk or stoned is already illegal and this law does nothing to change that.


  • Clean_Living

    Are some of you legalizers really suggesting that I should smoke marijuana for my bipolar disorder? Boy, what I wouldn’t give! I would never take a ‘medicine’ that was made in nature. It has unknown dosage and unknown side effects. Plus, medicine has never been smoked…..and never will be smoked. There is no comparable phenomenon with medicine made in a lab. It is highly predictable, and always has the same effect on everyone who takes it in dosages that a doctor prescribes. Of course there may be one or two anomolies, but these are statistical outliers….definitely not the norm.

    You druggies ask over and over again, “what is so dangerous about the weed?”’ Like most users, you cannot see what it’s doing to yourselves and your loved ones; that’s part of the pernicious aspect of using marijuana.

    Short term memory loss, maybe? Evidently, ‘you people’ think the dramatization in the movie “Reefer Madness” is not real. That movie, was not made by the government; it was “dramatized” by Hollywood and made to seem like going crazy was an immediate danger. It’s not like that; it happens over time, to many users, not all, but too many!

    You think that it won’t happen to you guys at all, but the hedonistic, immature and irresponsible seeker of highs, cannot see the subtle steps into drug use and that users sometimes grow up and somehow quit, normally they grow old and damage their mental acuity, or push the envelope and die prematurely.

    Don’t forget; marijuana supposedly was meant to be only for the compassionate use of those dying, or living in so much pain they couldn’t manage their life without it! Keep that in perspective while you learn about The Medical Marijuana Scam.

    We need to adddress the some of the cat crap in the sandbox of American society.
    First, you people need to understand, how you came to get mired in this swamp of confusion, second – the why of it, and third, where we’re all headed if we don’t wake up as a society, and finally, I’ll address what can done about it!

    First, it was lies – misinformation. The American public has been scammed, … intentionally! Don’t forget; the drug user’s constant harping on his obsession,… it’s all about: his “right” to use pot recreation ally!

    To make my point, let’s begin by looking at the historical sequence … first, watch how Richard Cowan lays out the plan to legalize ALL drugs. Sitting on a church’s choir bleachers? … he’s speaking to a group of users . . . but, note: he explains that they’re starting with legalizing marijuana, first, see: Richard Cowan’s statement.

    Cowan explained the concept, it was accepted and put into motion, High Times and other publications put out the call to marijuana users to come forward and beg for compassion …. from the government, using the American public as an audience, for manipulation purposes.

    The legalizers made their presentations, (feigning desperate need) and demanded to be able to smoke their “medicine.” As the public heard the pleas, from so many, seeming to suffer pathetically, … from all sorts of maladies, and that their “condition” would be helped by smoking marijuana, (as anticipated) the public began to have compassion agreeing, ‘why shouldn’t people be able to use a substance if they were dying anyway?’

    The people bought it and therefore, we were all scammed and California’s proposition 215 was the outcome, which has taken us deeper into this whole mess.

    During the hearings, users said they’d ‘heard pot helped it, and they’d then tried it . . . and sure enough found that those people were right, it was medicinal …. Plus, that they found that it helped more than the pharmaceutical drugs they’d been taking, and if the state had compassion they’d at least, allow them to die with less pain …. Yada, yada, yada.

    The public, only finds out later, through a survey, that the average time the medical marijuana cardholder was using pot before applying for their card was 17 years!

    That belies the whole scam but overturning this law, is not an easy thing; most people just want to be able to take care of their daily lives, and not have to dive into the politics of it all – that’s what Representative Democracy is all about! The philosophy is, ‘let the knowledgeable people take care of it.’ Besides, there is so much mis-information out there regarding this issue (intentionally) the people don’t know who to believe any longer.

    You see, their plan was, as Cowan said, ‘once marijuana was “thought of, as medicinal, they’d get it authorized’ and he explained further, ‘once the camel’s nose was under the tent, pot use would be allowed for just about anything.’

    And that’s what it’s come to be, . . . in Ca., Or., Wa. anyway, and now in 10 other states. They’d laid out a game plan and followed it to the letter. Now, the goal is to get the scam accepted across the whole nation, state by state! There’s a deep-pockets Islamic fundamentalist cartel funding them and next, (as they stated) comes legalization of all drugs.

    Users do nothing but make bad decisions. Because of the bad decisions, users violate the laws and contribute to every social ill of the land. Users put children and others at risk. Users try to get others to be like them, sucking them into the lost world of criminality, life without hope, disability and prison.

    They believe all this justifies what they do. It doesn’t! The lengths to which they’ll go, the lies they’ll tell to get their own way, is pathetic! The society they’re attacking is ours; and they want our children, to be like them! Don’t forget that! Protect your children at all costs! Like it or not, just like the narco-terrorists they purchase their drugs from, they are at war with us . . . . and kids push the envelope; it’s part of growing up and breaking away!

  • I would never take a ‘medicine’ that was made in nature. It has unknown dosage and unknown side effects.

    Well, steer clear of fresh fruits and vegetables then.

    You druggies ask over and over again, “what is so dangerous about the weed?”’ Like most users, you cannot see what it’s doing to yourselves and your loved ones…

    My standpoint is that whether it’s dangerous or not is beside the point. The question is, why should the dangers associated with marijuana or other narcotics justify them being illegal? There are countless dangerous things you can eat, drink, smoke or otherwise do which are legal.

    As for the usual nonsense about downward spirals into crime, well, it stands to reason that if you criminalize something you will create criminals. The Prohibition era provides a trite but very apt illustration of this. The “Drug War” is simply Prohibition on a vast, global scale.

    By the way, Clean_Living, I do not smoke pot, never have and probably never will.

  • “If you criminalize something you will create criminals.”

    Indeed, that how we create the class of criminals, by fiat.

  • Good points. Worth reiterating thrice.

    “If you criminalize something you will create criminals.” -DD

    “Indeed, that[‘s] how we create the class of criminals, by fiat.” -RN

  • Bill B

    My sense of real conservatism is not conserving the best/most traditional laws (especially those born of a superior holier than thou activist mindset), but a more libertarian take on the role of government where personal behavior is concerned.

    That’s real conservatism.

    The bottom line is those who responsibly ‘partake’ in such behavior shouldn’t be punished due to a fear based on the consequences of those who don’t.

    If that were the measure we wouldn’t be allowed to do a bunch of things; like driving a car because why should anyone be allowed to drive when there are those out there with licenses who haven’t a clue, drive badly, and kill people.

  • Bill B

    umm # 68 was sort of a response to Baronius #25

    got caught up in something mid-post and by the time I posted a whole lot transpired!

  • Bill B

    Oops – maybe not – just noticed the post times and I think I just didn’t look at the 2nd page of comments!

    I’ll go hide now…

  • jimbo

    Bradley effect? I’m wondering if cannabis supporters are afraid of telling pollsters their true feelings, thus skewing the numbers (?)

  • There are so many reasons to support California Proposition 19 that we sometime forget some of them. A YES vote on Prop 19 will have the following benefits:

    • Reduce violence and crime
    • Reduce racially biased arrests
    • Generate $1.2B to $1.4B in taxes
    • Create 60,000 to 110,000 jobs
    • Reduce police corruption
    • Increase respect for police and the law
    • Free police to focus on property and violent crimes
    • Reduce prison costs and prison overcrowding
    • Expand California economy by $16 to $23 billion
    • Reduce drug cartels’ revenue
    • Reduce environmental damage from illegal grows
    • Allow adults to choose a safer alternative to alcohol

    To read the studies documenting these outcomes, and to learn more about Prop 19, please visit yes19.org

  • High on life

    “There is no comparable phenomenon with medicine made in a lab.”

    I’m so glad you mentioned that, Clean_Living. Either you really are just pulling our leg, because that line really gave me a good laugh. Or, you just confessed to being a pill addict.

    Medicine made in a lab… A phenomenon!! ROFLMAO!!

    “Nature” is what you came from, not a lab. God didn’t create a lab. Your government created a lab, so they could dope up kids and idiots like yourself, and brainwash the public into believing the solution to all your problems is in a pill. Neocons are so against legalization because the biggest loser in this deal is NOT the alcolhol industry. It’s the pharmaceutical industry. They will fall after full legalization. And neocons are living off of the hefty donations of these pharmaceutical companies. Do you think they’ll receive these bribes any longer if they come out in support of legalization?

    I’ve smoked mj before. It didn’t make me want to keep smoking it. But it made me believe that I don’t need a pill that came from a lab that causes dependence. It made me believe that if I just be myself, and love myself and nature and everyone around me and even stupid idiots like you, that a behavioral disorder such as bipolar or depression doesn’t even exist in my mind. And there you go, it’s gone from my system. Using mj before made me want to be myself and be more successful in life. And no, I’m not currently using it. But if I do please, then I shall have the right to use it. Marijuana is not intended as a “party drug”. It connects you with your inner soul, thus increasing creativity in oneself. There are people that abuse it as a party drug, and this is only so in cases where other drugs are also being used, such as hard drugs and pills. I don’t need a damn scientific citation to back that up. I’ve seen it myself with my own eyes in real life experience. Yes, pillheads like yourself, along with other hard drug users, are mainly the ones that can’t handle their marijuana.

    Should I be labeled a criminal for life, because marijuana helped me want to get my act together. Because it gave me insight and a strong desire to want to seek more truthful knowledge. The government is afraid of having too many of these people. If there were too many peaceful creative fearless people like myself, then there would be less crime and a significantly lesser of a need for government control. those who properly use marijuana don’t want to be violent, don’t want confrontation, don’t want to invade on people such as yourself. They just want a couple of hours of laughs and creative thinking. And if everyone smoked, or however they choose to consume it, crime would drop significantly, and society wouldn’t be so dumbed down by people like you. In fact, there would no longer be a “society” to conform to because everyone would just be themselves. And in turn, several government positions would no longer be needed because they could no longer rely on revenue from screwups. Do the math: Criminals minus crime equals Nothing at all. So where would the government get their revenue? Taxes. What would our taxes pay for? Schools, education, interstates, preserving NATURE. NOT jails, courts, prison systems, legal fees, and health care/health SCARE. Overall, less need for control. It’s a win win situation for people like you and myself. It’s a major loser for the wallets of politicians. Think about how many industries would have no need if fear were eliminated. Special interest groups GONE. And then they will all just be poor lousy politicians. All politics have a self serving agenda. You honestly think they got big and well known because they cared about the well being of our citizens? Hell no! Somebody knew somebody else who knew somebody else got them elected. And the media is controlled to give people like you a false sense of knowledge.

    Woo, I got a little carried away there. But anyway, I don’t need a damn scientist or media expert to tell me what’s good for me. Marijuana is an ANTI-drug, and it’s good for anyone that correctly uses it. I’ve seen with my own eyes. And that’s all I need. The only minus to smoking is paranoia, that would be eliminated if it were legal.

    Go ahead and call me a druggie, you closed-minded control freak. I am smart enough to know what I am, and there’s not a damn thing you can say to convince me otherwise. I am a human being working on my bachelor’s degree (I’m sure even you could guess it’s not in science, but rather creative arts). I want to write, produce, and other things related. And I have a good paying job in the hotel business. So I have a fallback plan. And FYI before I ever smoked, I had a 2.1 gpa. Right now I have A’s. And I’m happier with my life than I’ve been since I was 6.

    So swallow that big pill. Maybe it’ll cure your bi-polar and your closed-mindedness.

  • High on life

    And to set the record straight, you use pills, so you’re considered a druggie.

  • taxing marijuana would just hurt patients… it will not free up the jails instead give felonies for smoking in public, smoking in the same home as a minor. Richard Lee owner and founder of oaksterdam is trying to monopolize marijuana because nobody is going to be able to afford the 15,000 growing fine with a 5×5 growing space, don’t let richard lee charge us $80 an eighth

  • High on life

    I agree with Shelby. Richard Lee stands to get some type of benefit through this law. And there’s far too many restrictions. But I will vote for it because it’s somewhat of a step forward in ending the war on drugs. What I REALLY hope for is Assemblyman Ammiano’s A.B. 2254 to start picking up momentum. It passed the last committee it went to, and I believe they may bring this one to debate in the fall. AB 2254 is a slam dunk. Prop 19 is just a babystep forward.

  • haddiman

    At first I was raging at Clean_Living’s comments but then I started laughing when I realized he or she is either a gigantic idiot or a very good troll.

  • sergio pasquel

    unfortunately,for you,california is one of the most liberal states in the country,i bet this law will be aproved,probably it will start a domino effect in many places.
    Say as you please but it WILL happen.

  • Julia

    Clean_Living: “God made the earth yield healing herbs, which the prudent man should not neglect.” Ecclesiastes 38:4 (Bible)

  • shannon

    This Prop. is garbage. Give the cities the control to “Tax and Regulate”. Ha, look what Rancho Cordova is trying to do. They showed thier hand too soon. They want to impose a “Personal Consumption Tax” on your grow space. $600.00 per sq. ft. Does anyone think that their city won’t do the same ? People are BLIND not to see what is really going on here. Not FREEDOM…MONEY !!!

  • Chillax

    Y’all need to smoke some weed and see if it don’t improve the quality of yo life

  • I really appreciate your thoughtful comments on this situation and for the interesting facts. Thanks!

    I administrate a website devoted to advocating the legitimate use of marijuana for those who need it. Please visit.