This morning I sat down to breakfast and opened a brand new box of Cheerios and as I was pouring the cereal into my bowl... KERTHUNK! Something heavy fell into it, spilling toasty oaty O's all over the table.…
Cindy and Roger, I wouldn't get too excited about our agreement. Every time it's happened before, it turns out that we read the matter in discussion very differently. I bet that's the case here.
On a related subject, I don't know the details of the dispute with Dave that you're discussing, but I've been on the receiving end of some of your presumptions before. Just because you can't reconcile a person's position with decent motives doesn't mean that he has bad motives.
Dave's motives are irrelevant. Much in the way that if you slowly kill me without meaning to, that really doesn't help me very much. I am looking at the practical results of Dave's positions. Dave has defended the wealthy as being those who should be in power and also has defended sweat shops, objectification of people, and degradation of human dignity as a perfectly effective and acceptable ways of earning a wage.
So, if the culture he values creates a slew of people who are pedophiles and have developed a taste for owning human beings for the purpose of sexually degrading them--then Dave sees that as a market opportunity, not a problem.
Baronius, notice I haven't gone any further than saying I was glad. It was at best a very cautious expression of optimism - a word to the wise, in other words.
(Cindy, I may have been incorrect in phrasing things. What I should have said - Dave's methodology of arriving at political positions is kind of cockeyed. Whether it's on purpose (in order to obfuscate and keep himself in the dark) or whether it's inadvertent, that I cannot say. So at this point I'm not yet ready to say that Dave's is a case of bad faith - willfully and intentionally. I haven't pressed him that far yet.)
But you're right of course in the larger scheme of things. Not only is he an enabler. He's had ample opportunity, time and again, to examine or even slightly ameliorate his view(s). Yet, nothing of the kind transpired, nor is there any indication that it ever will. Thus far, it had all fallen on deaf ears - no matter what you or anybody else brings us.
You'll have to explain your meaning Jet. I'm not really sure what your point is. I suspect it's a bit of pettiness. You're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.
I simply met that with your obscure references, there are times when you two act as if no one else is welcome once you join a discussion on any subject unless we can refer to googled databases and unabridged dictionaries in ordet to feel worthy of you.
Oh let those two go at it, anw the rest of us will be over here in the corner with our own discussion.
134 -
Zedd
Oct 11, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Roger,
"Pretend being someone you're not and you'll still be able to get away with it. We'll blame it on the cursor. "
It had to do with your cursor problems, zedd, a two-day old comment.
136 -
Zedd
Oct 11, 2009 at 2:17 pm
Roger,
What we forget is how the climate was a year or two ago. We were deeply immersed in dumb land. The world couldn't budge because America was leading and truly the Emperor had no clothes and was decapitated. It was a really weird time where everyone was pissed and felt like they couldn't do a dadgum thing about it. Here comes this young guy who wouldn't (or is incapable off) play by the rules. He didn't have much to loose so he STARTED addressing issues that American leaders have been too scared to address. Clinton got scared after he felt the wrath of the very real "Right Wing Conspirators" and refused to do much after that, especially where matters of international importance came into question. Then Bush came to power and all hell broke loose. The world was used like a Hollywood set and a perverse game was being played using the worlds institutions like plastic toy figures, to satisfy the whims of spoiled men with a warped sense of reality. Obama says "this is silly, were are going to stop". The world breaths a sigh of relief and dialogue begins again. Everyone starts to talk about how to get things back in order. - He gets the award. QED
I'm also not sure that your feeling of inadequacy is generalizable to everyone else or what obscure references you mean. I wasn't aware I said anything obscure.
What the f ... are you complaining about, Jet. When I was posting on other thread and people were objecting, Mark Eden suggested that we move on to my own. Which we did. I stated my purpose right off the bat - I was interesting in exploring certain text, and so we started doing that. It wasn't a closed forum but open for everyone. All the postings were public - they still are - and so are all the links and references.
It is my or anybody else's fault now that no one cared to participate? So now you're coming across and trying to make me feel guilty for pursuing what, I had stated at the outset, was my personal interest. Which, in effect, comes close to saying I should have the right to speech.
You do know that oftentimes your political or other articles are also very personal in nature, and quite understandably so. And whenever you post those articles, I surely participated in the discussion without accusing you of your motivation - as having to do with your personal interests and concerns. But now you are playing a different tune.
I hope you reconsider your position and I want to assure you that I never had any intention of hurting your feelings. Certainly not by having a discussion on topics which are of great interests to me. And I hope you don't expect me to apologize for that, just as I wouldn't dream of having you apologize to me for being concerned with gay rights.
It wasn't my fault. But I surely enjoyed the ride.
147 -
Zedd
Oct 11, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Roger,
Your comment seemed to be about something more than a cursor and I was trying to get you to say what you meant is all... so I can pounce. Haven't had a meal in a while, ready for a fresh kill!
It should be one "l." See, you already got me on the run.
150 -
Zedd
Oct 11, 2009 at 3:59 pm
"130 - roger nowosielski
Oct 11, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Jet, that was dirty pool. You are taking her remarks out of context and you know it.
And right, I really don't give a fuck where you're coming from? Taking about being sensitive and taking things personally.
131 - Cindy
Oct 11, 2009 at 1:06 pm
You'll have to explain your meaning Jet. I'm not really sure what your point is"
Oh ree-hee-heee-lly? I do seem to recall how a year or so ago when Jet (I'm guessing its the same one) got all emotional and strangely hormonal on me and made all sorts of irrational assertions against me and Cindy and the lot of you (roger you weren't on BC then) came to his defense simply because he on the same side of the argument, EVEN THOUGH his assertions took on a more personal turn, and were quite frankly oddball in nature. After taking the unfair beating for a couple of days and patiently responding to the idiotic, seemingly PMS induced, atrociously reasoned posts, I lost my cool and told him exactly what I thought of his posts. Well all hell broke loose then, off course and I was the bad guy (or girl). It didn't help that he ended up going to the hospital a few months later. Sigh.
OK, then. But it would help if after you post, you'd hang around for a minute or two and deal with a response then and there rather than having to resurrect it after a week, don't you think?
158 -
Zedd
Oct 11, 2009 at 4:08 pm
Fran,
Did you wonder what Rabin, Arafat, Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi did with their award? Are you a big follower of the Nobeloriates of past years? Have you made a study of the peace prize?
Sort of like an ex-wife constantly throwing all your mistakes in your face
164 -
Zedd
Oct 11, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Roger,
While I like that BC is more updated and I don't have to feel embarrassed about referring people to it, its not as easy to find ones comments. I often forget which threads that i have posted from.
"There are few things more dreadful than dealing with a man who knows he is going under, in his own eyes, and in the eyes of others. Nothing can help that man. What is left of that man flees from what is left of human attention."
This morning I sat down to breakfast and opened a brand new box of Cheerios and as I was pouring the cereal into my bowl... KERTHUNK! Something heavy fell into it, spilling toasty oaty O's all over the table.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments126 - Baronius
Cindy and Roger, I wouldn't get too excited about our agreement. Every time it's happened before, it turns out that we read the matter in discussion very differently. I bet that's the case here.
On a related subject, I don't know the details of the dispute with Dave that you're discussing, but I've been on the receiving end of some of your presumptions before. Just because you can't reconcile a person's position with decent motives doesn't mean that he has bad motives.
127 - Cindy
Dave's motives are irrelevant. Much in the way that if you slowly kill me without meaning to, that really doesn't help me very much. I am looking at the practical results of Dave's positions. Dave has defended the wealthy as being those who should be in power and also has defended sweat shops, objectification of people, and degradation of human dignity as a perfectly effective and acceptable ways of earning a wage.
So, if the culture he values creates a slew of people who are pedophiles and have developed a taste for owning human beings for the purpose of sexually degrading them--then Dave sees that as a market opportunity, not a problem.
128 - Jet Gardner
Cindy-you say Dave's motives are irrelevant, but I'm beginning to wonder if anyone's are to you and Roger.
Does anyone without an unabridged dictionary and 95 dust-covered text books to refer to?
129 - roger nowosielski
Baronius, notice I haven't gone any further than saying I was glad. It was at best a very cautious expression of optimism - a word to the wise, in other words.
(Cindy, I may have been incorrect in phrasing things. What I should have said - Dave's methodology of arriving at political positions is kind of cockeyed. Whether it's on purpose (in order to obfuscate and keep himself in the dark) or whether it's inadvertent, that I cannot say. So at this point I'm not yet ready to say that Dave's is a case of bad faith - willfully and intentionally. I haven't pressed him that far yet.)
But you're right of course in the larger scheme of things. Not only is he an enabler. He's had ample opportunity, time and again, to examine or even slightly ameliorate his view(s). Yet, nothing of the kind transpired, nor is there any indication that it ever will. Thus far, it had all fallen on deaf ears - no matter what you or anybody else brings us.
So go figure!
130 - roger nowosielski
Jet, that was dirty pool. You are taking her remarks out of context and you know it.
And right, I really don't give a fuck where you're coming from? Taking about being sensitive and taking things personally.
131 - Cindy
You'll have to explain your meaning Jet. I'm not really sure what your point is. I suspect it's a bit of pettiness. You're welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.
132 - roger nowosielski
I'm getting the fuck out of this thread. Don't want to give anyone a heart attack.
133 - Jet Gardner
I simply met that with your obscure references, there are times when you two act as if no one else is welcome once you join a discussion on any subject unless we can refer to googled databases and unabridged dictionaries in ordet to feel worthy of you.
Oh let those two go at it, anw the rest of us will be over here in the corner with our own discussion.
134 - Zedd
Roger,
"Pretend being someone you're not and you'll still be able to get away with it. We'll blame it on the cursor. "
I don't know what that comment was all about.
135 - roger nowosielski
It had to do with your cursor problems, zedd, a two-day old comment.
136 - Zedd
Roger,
What we forget is how the climate was a year or two ago. We were deeply immersed in dumb land. The world couldn't budge because America was leading and truly the Emperor had no clothes and was decapitated. It was a really weird time where everyone was pissed and felt like they couldn't do a dadgum thing about it. Here comes this young guy who wouldn't (or is incapable off) play by the rules. He didn't have much to loose so he STARTED addressing issues that American leaders have been too scared to address. Clinton got scared after he felt the wrath of the very real "Right Wing Conspirators" and refused to do much after that, especially where matters of international importance came into question. Then Bush came to power and all hell broke loose. The world was used like a Hollywood set and a perverse game was being played using the worlds institutions like plastic toy figures, to satisfy the whims of spoiled men with a warped sense of reality. Obama says "this is silly, were are going to stop". The world breaths a sigh of relief and dialogue begins again. Everyone starts to talk about how to get things back in order. - He gets the award. QED
137 - Cindy
Jet,
You'll forgive me if I didn't catch that, considering that my conversation, you referenced, was with Baronius, not Roger.
138 - Cindy
I'm also not sure that your feeling of inadequacy is generalizable to everyone else or what obscure references you mean. I wasn't aware I said anything obscure.
139 - Jet Gardner
Cindy, surely you should know that I'm a complete and utter idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about... ask anyone!
140 - roger nowosielski
What the f ... are you complaining about, Jet. When I was posting on other thread and people were objecting, Mark Eden suggested that we move on to my own. Which we did. I stated my purpose right off the bat - I was interesting in exploring certain text, and so we started doing that. It wasn't a closed forum but open for everyone. All the postings were public - they still are - and so are all the links and references.
It is my or anybody else's fault now that no one cared to participate? So now you're coming across and trying to make me feel guilty for pursuing what, I had stated at the outset, was my personal interest. Which, in effect, comes close to saying I should have the right to speech.
You do know that oftentimes your political or other articles are also very personal in nature, and quite understandably so. And whenever you post those articles, I surely participated in the discussion without accusing you of your motivation - as having to do with your personal interests and concerns. But now you are playing a different tune.
I hope you reconsider your position and I want to assure you that I never had any intention of hurting your feelings. Certainly not by having a discussion on topics which are of great interests to me. And I hope you don't expect me to apologize for that, just as I wouldn't dream of having you apologize to me for being concerned with gay rights.
Roger
141 - Jet Gardner
Roger, surely you should know that I'm a complete and utter idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about... ask anyone!
142 - roger nowosielski
No you're not, and you do know what you're talking about. But I just posted a response. If you want to ignore it, there's nothing else I can do.
143 - handyguy
The lefties around here are so...crabby lately. Lighten up, folks.
144 - roger nowosielski
It was a fight in the family, Handy. You know, the worst kind there is.
145 - Jet Gardner
Mom always liked you best
146 - roger nowosielski
It wasn't my fault. But I surely enjoyed the ride.
147 - Zedd
Roger,
Your comment seemed to be about something more than a cursor and I was trying to get you to say what you meant is all... so I can pounce. Haven't had a meal in a while, ready for a fresh kill!
148 - roger nowosielski
Sorry, Zullu warrior. Find another water hole.
149 - roger nowosielski
It should be one "l." See, you already got me on the run.
150 - Zedd
"130 - roger nowosielski
Oct 11, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Jet, that was dirty pool. You are taking her remarks out of context and you know it.
And right, I really don't give a fuck where you're coming from? Taking about being sensitive and taking things personally.
131 - Cindy
Oct 11, 2009 at 1:06 pm
You'll have to explain your meaning Jet. I'm not really sure what your point is"
Oh ree-hee-heee-lly? I do seem to recall how a year or so ago when Jet (I'm guessing its the same one) got all emotional and strangely hormonal on me and made all sorts of irrational assertions against me and Cindy and the lot of you (roger you weren't on BC then) came to his defense simply because he on the same side of the argument, EVEN THOUGH his assertions took on a more personal turn, and were quite frankly oddball in nature. After taking the unfair beating for a couple of days and patiently responding to the idiotic, seemingly PMS induced, atrociously reasoned posts, I lost my cool and told him exactly what I thought of his posts. Well all hell broke loose then, off course and I was the bad guy (or girl). It didn't help that he ended up going to the hospital a few months later. Sigh.
151 - Fran
Maybe Obama will give his cash prize (isn't it a million or so?) to the poor... LMAO"
Good one for sure!
But who are the poor? Those on the welfare government rolls, or those who have even less than they do, but are still trying to make it on their own?
I wonder...
152 - Fran
Great article, Dave!
153 - Zedd
I've concluded that either Dave is dense, a liar or shrewed to the point of being diabolical. I think he'd like to see himself as being the latter.
I'm guessing a dense liar who is harmlessly diabolical. What do you think Dave?
154 - Zedd
Oh come on. Roger. Just a nip.
155 - roger nowosielski
Am I supposed to respond to #150?
156 - Jet Gardner
#150 ahhh the good ole days
157 - roger nowosielski
OK, then. But it would help if after you post, you'd hang around for a minute or two and deal with a response then and there rather than having to resurrect it after a week, don't you think?
158 - Zedd
Fran,
Did you wonder what Rabin, Arafat, Mandela, Aung San Suu Kyi did with their award? Are you a big follower of the Nobeloriates of past years? Have you made a study of the peace prize?
159 - roger nowosielski
And apropos #150, you should know I don't play that game.
160 - Zedd
Jet (I see its the same one yay for all),
Still feeling a little emotional and wacky?
161 - Jet Gardner
Jet throws himself his desk and begins crying hysterically, frantically lookinjg for his pills
162 - roger nowosielski
In fact I think I was around, and to the best of my knowledge, I stood up by you - if you mean the argument about South Africa and the bush . . .
But perhaps you're referring to something else. Then I don't know.
163 - Jet Gardner
Sort of like an ex-wife constantly throwing all your mistakes in your face
164 - Zedd
Roger,
While I like that BC is more updated and I don't have to feel embarrassed about referring people to it, its not as easy to find ones comments. I often forget which threads that i have posted from.
I will do better in the future.
165 - Zedd
Roger,
No. Gay marriage.
166 - roger nowosielski
#161 convinces me that Jet is back to his senses. Hurray!
167 - Zedd
The argument is not what you think it was about and don't ask. He'll loose his mind. Not in the mood for one of his hissy fits.
168 - roger nowosielski
Oh my goodness. No wonder. You must have walked into the hornets' nest.
169 - Zedd
@166 - good luck with that
170 - Jet Gardner
"There are few things more dreadful than dealing with a man who knows he is going under, in his own eyes, and in the eyes of others. Nothing can help that man. What is left of that man flees from what is left of human attention."
James Baldwin
171 - roger nowosielski
Believe me. I ain't stupid enough to ask. In fact, I'm not about to touch it with a ten-foot pole.
172 - roger nowosielski
#170:
Spoken like a true desperado.
173 - Jet Gardner
Oh great now you have me fantisizing again
174 - Jet Gardner
He gringo you want to buy my seester?
175 - roger nowosielski
It all goes to show how a little attention can go a long way.